Ford's new EVs get efficiency boost from new heat pump technology
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- čas přidán 17. 04. 2024
- Ford's new EVs get efficiency boost from new heat pump technology
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#ford #heatpump #technology #evnews
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The fact that third party manufacturers are getting into more capable heat pump systems is great for smaller manufacturers who haven't got the expertise to design their own systems. The key to getting the best out of a heat pump is the controler (like Tesla's Octovalve) to avoid getting the rat's nest of piping as on the Ford demonstrated by Sandy Munro,
The Mustang - a plumbers nightmare 😂😂
Tesla removed the PTC electric heater in 2020 and changed to a heat scavenging system in mid 2020. Tesla now scavenge heat from 16 sources within the vehicle including motors, the fluid cooled computers, inverters, battery, even from the heat pump motor it self. This improved range by over 10%. No other EV has this system presently.
You sound like you saw the Weber Auto teardown and analysis of tTesla’s thermal management system.
This story shows just how early we still are in the development curve of EVs and related tech/systems/design. EV development is rapid and in 20 years technology and engineering in the cars will be almost unrecognizable compared to today's vehicles. It's like the first iPhone compared to the iPhone 15 - it's a paradigm shift in capabilities, efficiency and design.
EVs actually predate the internal combustion engine. They lined the streets of New York over 100 years ago. So going back to EVs is more like going back to the telegraph & similarly the only way you could achieve that is by political force, not consumer choice.
@@user-jb2om7cm8m The number of EVs on the streets of New York were minuscule. There were less than 5,000 of them in the entire country. By 1915 Ford had produced it's 1 millionth vehicle. If you talking about mass transit, trolleys, and subways that's another subject. You are right about consumer choice. After a bad 1st quarter of 2024, it appears that sales of EVs have stalled.
Agreed. So this implies don’t buy one now, wait until stability
This has nothing with the ev's the heat pump could as well be fitted to ice's to increase the fuel economy. The only specific thing to ev's which can be improved is the battery and there is not much to be done, the commercial batteries are almost at their peak.
@@markwilliamson9199 at stability a lot of monetary benefits will disappear. You buy when they're as close to your needs as possible before stability.
Resistive heater running on high uses about 4 kw. Heat pump running on high uses about 2 kw. F-150 at freeway speed uses .50 kwh/mile. So at 70 mph in warm temps that is 35 kwh per hour. In hot temps with AC, it is 37 kwh per hour. In cold temps with heat pump it is 37 kwh per hour. In cold temps with resistive heater, it is 39 kwh per hour. Cabin heating, even with a resistive heater, is only responsible for a 6% range reduction. The real world 20% range reduction is due to cold battery, cold motors and cold tires. I’ve tested this with my Tesla: even if I preheat my battery and I only use the seat heater and wear a coat in the car and leave the heater off, the range is 10-15% lower than than on warm summer days. The heat pump is a small bonus, but it is not a complete game changer.
37kWh for a heatpump?
That pump must be two times bigger than the F-150.
The heat pump in my Nissan Leaf uses 250wh on 20 degrees Celsius setting with an 8:degrees outside temperature.
A model 3 2021 in Norway uses 735wh compared to the 2019 model 3 that uses 2.1kWh to maintain the same temperature.
I think you must confuse something.
@@badchefi I think you must have confused something. I didn’t say the heat pump uses 37 kwh per hour. I said it uses 2 kwh per hour. The pickup uses 35 kwh per hour at 75 mph to drive down the road.
It's so lame that all vehicles with air-conditioning have most of the parts needed for a heat pump.
An air conditioner is a heat pump, it's just not utilised fully to regulate battery and motor temperature as well as cabin temperature.
@@eclecticcyclist What basically makes an refrigerant pump a heat pump is most often just the addition of a reversing valve added to the refrigerant system. In some marine system now passing 20 years of age they could easily be changed from Straight Cool units to Heat Pumps by simply installing a reversing valve and upgrading the thermostat to be able to flip the valve from cooling to heating.
One big improvement to heat pumps though was the advent of the variable speed compressor (often called Inverter Heat Pumps in residential systems) which when idled down to match load instead of just relying on the expansion valve can now reach efficiency levels beyond 30 SEER.
Best!
@@neilfromclearwaterfl81 By definition a heat pump is a " Device that transfers thermal energy in the opposite direction of spontaneous heat transfer" any valve or lack of valve is an addition to that basic heat pump.
@@eclecticcyclist Yes "In Opposite Direction" from the normal condensor evaporator mode of operation. You take that from a conceptual paper to the real world by providing valving that allows opposite direction of heat transfer. A good AC tech can take a straight cool system and convert it to heat pump operation with the addition of a reversing valve or visa vi and bypass a defective reversing valve to convert a heat pump system back to straight cool.
Best!
@@neilfromclearwaterfl81 The basic machine is called a heat pump, everything else is a spcific application.
Thermal management in vehicles has been in need of a major revamp for some time, It’s nice to see it finally beginning to be addressed more widely.
Costs of advanced thermal management hardware and software will drop as adopting it proliferates.
Sam I've been a fan and encouraging you and giving thoughts fir Shana.
No hate but it seems like people are getting let go by tesla in Texas. No? Channel shut down?
Ford should include that heat pump in the Mustang Mach E too.
My Denso heat pump died in my BZ4x and could not be replaced in 4 months, forcing a buy back. Only 4000 miles.
I saw the cyber truck for the first time today and i can absolutely say it looks like buying else in the road. For better or worse...
Sam, efficiency measures how effectively energy is transferred to motion. Cold weather reduces battery capacity but the efficiency isn’t affected much. To increase efficiency the drag coefficient and weight of the truck needs to be drastically reduced.
It’s amazing that the electric Viking is not talking about ONVO the Nio sub brand that’s going to be cheaper than Tesla with more tech along with battery swap. Sooner or later he’s going to have to, once ONVO start selling like hot cakes.
There is an advantage with a heat pump if you are doing longer journeys in colder climates. There is little or no advantage in shorter journeys. Heat pumps are very good at utilising the heat from components within the car. The one drawback is they are not good at generating heat from cold therefore even the cars with heat pumps use the resistor heater to firstly generate heat then the heat pump takes over to spread that heat around. So as said the heat pump doesn’t give an advantage on shorter trips as the resistor heater is being used to generate the heat in the first place.
Nah
A good heat pump is 4-6 X more efficient than any resistor heater.
Not all EVS with HP have a heater they scavange heat from components
Glad to hear Ford is adding it. Thank you for the information.
they can recover the energy for the heat pump by installing solar panels on the roof of the truck.
Its interesting to see how many items are improved by heat pumps. Our new washing machine has a heat pump. It heats the water and is used to heat the same machine to kake it a dryer. Very effecient.
My 2017 model s had heat pump (air conditioning) AND resistive heaters.
Batteries are not efficient because you have the whole of the weight to carry even at a low charge. The bush should be to make the battery lighter & not extended the range.
Efficiency is needed, like I really welcome new Model Y with just one motor in Europe that gets 600 km range. Many people want huge ranges, but there is also a reason why ICE cars do not get insane ranges, you will eventually have to stop and take a rest and need to fill up. And maybe 300 miles or sth like that is kind of a range when you do that, and better to have efficient smaller battery that charges fast than just put a huge one that will also recharge longer
Quite stunning just how backward the Ford Lighting was at launch. It took the ceo a short week driving the truck around for him to clue in the charge infrastructure was crap. How detached from reality can you get!
so are the dealers going to stop marking up ford EVs
An antidote for a 15 minute commuting lessee is silly I will opt for the Tesla with resistive heater.
Teslas have not had resistive heaters for years
Viking, $149 on the way to $25, gee wiz, maybe it'll get there before 2025? What are your thoughts, escape plans? Good luck, don't let the Con Man pull you under.
He's the con man.
@@KaiserHooray BS
Will the 2024 have NACS plugs?
2025
I like the styling of the Polecat, er…Polestar.
What about cooling in hot weather?
An air conditioner is a heat pump in reverse. It pumps the heat outside the car, keeping the inside cool.
Sam, there is a nice summary of the US Biden dilemma in the Atlantic titled " no easy answer to Chinese EVs". You should have a poll on options/ possible solutions. Maybe America saves its truck business but lets in Chinese small cars only. That way they get the EV learnings but keep American pride. It reflects how the US survived the Japanese invasion. You should start a debate and explore the pitfalls.
It's not a matter of national pride. It's a matter of national security. Yesterday large parts of the 911 system were taken down, accidentally. It was feared that it was a cyber attack. With the streets full of Chinese small cars they access to the software of those cars and would be in a position to cause havoc.
Who cares it only adds range for places that experience snowy climate. Good progress. Next story please.
I care! If I can't defrost the windshield I can't drive half the year.
When are you gonna close your channel as promised?
move on
I really like Sam, I was a very early subscriber and a Tesla owner and enthusiast , he does have a lot of good info, some of it is a tad off but mainstream media is much worse, the only issue here is his journalistic credibility in how he handled the Tesla layoff debacle, He’s doing the best he can and this will fade away but I hope next time he just faces it head-on, its the best way to disperse the trolls!
He has repeatedly posted videos about scam free energy machines, he is uneducated, has atrocious grammar and is a money grubber. Ever hear anything about his wife? Since their Thailand vacation was paid for by us?
Agreed - well said. He made an error of judgment; hasn't owned up to it - these are not feel-good truths, but I don't want this channel to go anywhere. It's good, constant EV news that we can and do use.
I think Sam's a good guy, overall, and I'm thankful for him - and wish only the best for his wife and him/their family. 👍
I'm a contratian poster and have been for a long time. He can block people anytime he wants, but he continues to take the abuse and let us rant and rave amongst ourselves. Had some good conversations over the years, and look forward to many more.
Looks like the same truck they released in 2004.
A new motor design could have heat vanes around the housing of the motor, in which air flows through converted to hot air and redirected to a pipe array around the battery. One would need to be able to shut it off during hot weather. This could also boost electric motor performance.
Could also be used for heating the car during winter.
Efficient designs are liquid cooled - much less drag induced power loss when pumping fluid than in blowing air, and much more heat scavenging. Tesla uses liquid cooled motors. Tesla also changes the way that the field coils are fed when required to increase heat output, kind of like an induction stove does, to supplement the heat pump when required - which is also much more efficient than a resistance heater.
@@josephv5484exactly!
They already do that, with liquid coolants.
To cool notors, inverters, chargers, and either to heat/cool the battery
Better designs use this heat to heat the cabin also. Tesla's heat pump design is very well designed for extracting heat from all waste areas
I’m shocked to see this channel is still here given this is an upstanding man that would never go back on his word or edit and reupload his own videos that make him look bad 😂😂😂
Leechi 423 you're obviously the Chinese troll if you don't like this channel stop watching
How is your rapacious - I mean “upstanding” - fossil car stealership dealing with technology change. Attacking the messenger, I see, with fake ethics claim. Classic.
What are you talking about
People think heat pumps are some new magic. They are the same tech that has been running electric refrigerators and freezers for over a 100 years now.
Not doing heating.
Meh that’s not exactly the truth…that’s like saying a Model T is the same as a Model Y😂
@@jezza6575 Nope. Compressed freon gas to extract the heat for heating or cooling. Same as a fridge.
Sam I am one of those contrarians who post here and have been labeled a ICE hater by some. I want to thank you for not blocking myself and others from posting opposing views to the EV frenzy and pointing out the obvious defects that have lead to some interesting discussions. That being said. Today Tesla close at $149 a 50% loss from a year ago. As that was happening Elon was in court trying to get a decision regarding his $56 billion stock salary deal overturned. If he is successful he will be allowed to buy his shares at a 50percent off sale, and when the stock soars in the following days, another investigation will be opened into his stock manipulations. 🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑 and the wheel goes round and round.
Again, following Tesla's leadership in energy efficiency with regenerative braking, heat pumps, software, etc
Will this be in the Mach-E?
Let’s hope so…
Not an efficient one.
Cheers mate
Sam made a bet and loose, the honorable way is to close the channel. The less honorable but correct way is recognizing he made an honest mistake and go on from there, the worst way is deleting evidence, acting like nothing happened and wait for this to fade away, and it will, but the way he has handled this situation will remain for long time. I am a big fan of his channel and an EV enthusiast and recognize Sam lost credibility after this. Everyone make mistakes, the way you act after a mistake is made reflects your real personality...
Wth are you talking about, op?
He can’t stop publishing its all this sado has.He’s a disgrace to Australia.
Nissan leaf didn't have a heat pump for a bit
Interesting observation. What’s your point?
I wish there were modular replacement batteries for old EVs like the Leaf that had improvements. Unless you mostly use the Leaf here at nights in the summer, or mostly in the winter - a replacement battery won't last very long. The battery makers struggle to keep up with new vehicle battery demand, there is no incentive to offer upgrades for the 1st gen Leaf. All the Leafs I see for sale here in South Texas are low miles cars with failing batteries, otherwise like new. Cheap, but not good.
Tesla has been doing this forever - its the purpose of their well known octo valve
Sure wish they'd nfix the Home Integration kit... 1 mo. & counting... Still no support from either Ford or Sunrun.
Am thinking the gals at Transport Evolved has on that is working. Maybe
Channel still going then?
You can just stop watching and especially commenting??😂😂
@@whowhy9023People just reassuring the guy stick to his word.
Why u wanna ride this basement viking. 😅
You know he can block people anytime he wants. You got to give him credit for taking all the abuse.
All ev have a heatpump. The air conditioner is a heatpump. However, not also used for heating.
You mean the new heat pump technology that Nissan uses since 2013?
Hybrids also use heat pumps.
Some do, many don't. My PHEV uses the engine for heat just like an ICE car, but things like the RAV4 Prime and Outlander have heat pumps.
I think a petrol powered electricity generator as a range extender that uses the waste heat to heat the battery and cabin in cold climates would be a winner.
It could be used on the summer holidays and other peak times to reduce the queues at charging facilities also.
If you dont build with heat pump as standard, you will be seen as not really an ev company. You will be seen as too stupid to get it right. A heat pump is efficient AND a marketing must! Take this, VW😮
is this an affordable work truck for the handyman?
If you include operational costs of 5-10 years, it should be more affordable than diesel/gas trucks.
@@wavargasmolina
You're funnier than Bill Burr.
Depends on your circumstance. If you do not travel or tow long distances and if you have your own home infrastructure where you can plug into a level 2 charger every night. Then absolutely. The frunk is a game changer for work. You can keep all your tools in lockable storage and have a free bed to haul stuff. You also have a ton of plugs in the frunk where you can charge your tools. Even for towing it's awesome and powerful. You just can't tow far.
@@mrsaipros338 and your a nut job.
Are you serious? What are you smoking?
The problem is no longer range. It's charging and repair costs. 7 Kw. is what the luckiest of us Americans have for charging, that is typically a garage with a dryer circuit. Charging a 200 kWh battery with 7 kw would take about 28.5 hours; Tesla Home Charger 17.4 hours. Public charger? In socal you're lucky to get 30kw so about 6.67 hours. Taking the boat and the family to the Colorado river is about 270 miles each way. With towing range dropping to 145 miles, what does that trip look like?
The additional load of the EV chargers will cripple the outdated supply system to residential areas. The more amps drawn on a given circuit will reduce the amount of available supply for others. That's why there are brown outs bordering on the verge of blackouts during peak heating and cooling demands now. Forget about what's a trip going to look like. What's it going to look like when the parts of the grid collapse during 110 degree temperatures.
@@howardj602 that is a good reason to upgrade the grid then not just give up and say it can't be done
@@JD-yx7be Oh, it can be done. But what is wrong with have an electrical EV charging system with generating dedicated to charging EVs. That can be done also. It is one of the mainstays of the EV network envisioned by Elon Musk. However he wants to do it with taxpayer money,
@@JD-yx7be Amazon has done it. It is now operating the the largest number of privately owned chargers in the U.S. tailor made for its fleet of EVs.
You were doing a great job until you mentioned, "legacy auto makers." Legacy auto makers have powered economic development for well over a century. You should have more respect. How many people have you killed inadvertently in your ICE car with pollution.
you said you'd close the channel if TSLA sacked anyone. you have no honour. what else are you lying about.
It is amusing how the terms of that bet keeps changing.
Hello mate
Copying Tesla is always a good idea.
THATS WHY ALL THE DEALERS ARE SENDING TRUCKS BACK TO FORD IN CANADA
Weren’t you supposed to shut down the channel Sam? Since Tesla IS laying off employees in the tens of thousands?
He didnt answer me when I asked the same question, in fact he took it down...
Sam should come clean and openly address all issues related the Tesla layoffs.
Pipe down, no one cares
his whole schtick is to boost tesla stock. damn your ethics. have to gargle edong’s balls all day, every day
Ok troll let's make it clear. You have no clues and they do this roughly every 5 years.
Just like Tesla only a few years late. 1000 more changes and they'll be caught up to Tesla 5 years ago.
Ford id pulling out of EV business.
Wise.
All others to follow.
I thought Tesla invented the heat pump?
Heap pumps were around long before EVs. Tesla was kind of a late adopter of the heat pump. But the Tesla octovalve system is a advancement in the industry. Interesting to see how the new heat pump works out for Ford.
@@danharold3087 It was sarcasm Dan.
@@hwirtwirt4500 Sarcasm is not always evident in text given the range of intellect present here.
Try using /s
HPs in cars are unnecessary and useless.
EVs are the transport of the future. And always will be.
EVs suck.
Ford lightning is a turd…
A piece of fecal matter, just like Joe Biden, the union king…..
How much more bull s it can this guy put out. 100% a scammer cant even keep a promise to shut his channel down . Just shows how much he lies.
Heat pump only 76,000 to fix my bet
The real news is Tesla 40% stock drop 2024 😂😂😂 massive layoffs. Ohh Elon u bad boy you
Boring cookie cutter design on all the Tesla’s what u expect
If you don't duplicate Tesla's heat pump, you are wasting your time.
great news, maybe now they can sell over 50 units this year!
Projection is for 1.5 million in 2024 in the USA.