Turning Players Into Payers (The Jimquisition)
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- čas přidán 22. 10. 2017
- / jimquisition
www.thejimquisition.com
sharkrobot.com/collections/Jim...
Activision's patented idea of utilizing matchmaking to trick players into buying DLC is an unsettling one, but if you think that's as bad as it gets, you don't know videogames.
Let's talk about Scientific Revenue, the service that demonstrates exactly what games want from you - they want to turn players into payers... and they proudly admit it.
The predatory side of gaming has only just begun to show its fangs.
__
Read Scientific Revenue's official response to my questions: www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Willi... - Hry
I'm so sick of your bitching and assumptions with no facts. "Only whales buy crates". You are basing that off of conversations and conjecture, you have no hard facts showing game sales and who buys crates. People dont mind loot crates as long as its not gameplay changing (hence the uproar with battlefront and shadow of war). Games are incredibly expensive to make and market, and NO its not developers pushing the graphics envelope for their sake, the consumer loves amazing graphics and will often complain "looks like ps3" when a game isn't freaking astounding. You are a "games journalist" there is nothing noble or special about your job, you talk about video games for christ sake. You are NOT in the industry, you have never programmed or made any sort of 3d art or map, and NO making youtube videos doesn't make you a "creator" or creative.
Dead space 2 selling 4 million and not being successful is proof enough on how expensive modern games are to make. Steam and retailers take a 30% cut, + a game can only be 60 bucks for so long so profits go down. I dont care spending 80-100 bucks over the course of a year on a game if I like it. Get used to it you entitled little babies who don't know how the world works or the effort involved in making games.
I'm sure your sheep audience will rush to downvote me. You want to really convince me, you need to be in the industry and present numbers, salaries, years to develop, marketing and distribution costs, and weigh that vs selling a single 60 dollar game, not your constant assumptions and bitching!
Okay, then let the industry publish the numbers. Please. I want to see them. Tell the industry, to present ALL of their numbers and dirty laundry. Then we will talk.
...What?
Okay, I can understand what you said about how AAA games can become expensive to make, with costs rocketing into the tens of millions, and I understand that companies need to be able to make that money back and be able to turn a profit. However, you also have to consider the consumers (players). There's a difference between earning money from players buying your game + expansions, and practically leeching money off of them with promises of virtual satisfaction through microtransactions/lootboxes.
THePunisher Xxx your a sheep if I've ever seen one. Wake up brother
Oh you are a treat lmao
Ooooh he pinned this, this is gonna be a bloody good one.
"Turning players into payers" just sounds like a catchphrase for a pimping service...
Oh, hey, you're here.
getvinnyvinesauceontheshowalready
DidYouKnowGaming? 2 Welcome to modern gaming!
I bet whoever came up with that catchphrase jizzed their pants when they shared it.
or 1984 scenario, you are just a piece of resource, sentenced to be exploited and then thrown aside when there is no more use of you.
+DidYouKnowGaming? 2
No, you're thinking of "Turning payers into players" common mistake.
I am a nurse. And sometimes I wish that I had some of those greedy suits lying on my ward, because I would _love_ to play the game of DLC and lootboxes with them.
Hello, good Sirs, I am your friendly nurse and you've just bought a copy of *"Basic Care"!*
This includes me checking on you regularly at the beginning, the middle and the end of my shift, me sending a trainee nurse with your meds and even three meals a day!
Of course there is more! There are great things that can and will extend and enhance your hospital experience! Things like...
- "wiping your ass"
- "the nurse nurse is kind to you"
- "the nurse has time for a conversation"
- or even "the friendly nurse has time for a converstation"!
Amazing experiences like...
- "answering your questions"
- "comforting you when you are scared"
- "changing your bandages, even when they are not completely grubby"
- "changing your bedclothes more often than once a week"
- "getting painkillers when you need them"!
And all of it is accessible through just a tiny bit of grinding, called "moving your ass to the nursing station", "making me lots of compliments", "shut up when the nurse is in a bad mood", "never complain or even ask for something" or "making me gifts".
But of course we understand that as a busy executive you might not have the time for all the grind. And being the sympathetic nurses we are, we even offer a solution for that! For only 1000 Euro you can buy our *DLC - Direct Loving Care* that not only includes all of the mentioned goodies above, but also comes with an extra -skin- colored bandage that is exclusive to our DLC!
You don't feel like you want our DLC? Why not trying our *Care Boxes* that give you that extra flexibility? Each *Care Box* only costs 50 Euro and has a staggering 5% chance of giving you the treatment you actually need! And they even come in batches - get 5 Care Boxes for the price of 4 and a half!
Yes, I think I like that idea. I am seeing my meager salary getting considerably boosted in the near future! And the best thing, according to companies like €A, _both_ sides will benefit from that!
TAKE MY MONEY NOW!!?!?
Furzkampfbomber glorious
This is the greatest analogy in the history of logic
As a practical nurse, I should be charging with this same method.
I'll give them a care box where the roll a random thing. Might be an activity, actual care and me giving a shit, but with a 90% chance its just me calling it a day early and going home.
YES.
Back in my day we called it spyware
RIGHT??? This is what I very first thought. Give it any other name, it's flagrant spyware. But I suppose with data mining being legal jobs it's not even as far as being in the *grey* area of law, huh?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Yeah,
*laughs in TimeSink*
*laughs harder in Bonzi Buddy*
I called it in my days. AKA 1 week ago.
Remember when you bought a game....and that was it? Yea I loved those days to.
I still live in those days, i only ever buy a game that offers me the full product, and i'll never get it day 1. WoW, imagine that? Some personal responsibility.
Personally, I like when you can enhance or lengthen your experience of one of your favourite games by investing in an expansion or something... I don't mind buying extra stuff if there's value in it... The problem for me is when it's a bunch of crap, not that it exists at all.
Personally, I like when you can enhance or lengthen your experience of one of your favourite games by investing in an expansion or something... I don't mind buying extra stuff if there's value in it... The problem for me is when it's a bunch of crap, not that it exists at all.
KitsyX I don't mind buying expansions either if it's clearly not content cut from the game which unfortunately is a trend in the industry. Mafia 2 is a great example of how to do expansions properly.
I think the last time I bought full DLC or a season pass and was happy with what I bought was Fallout 3, New Vegas, and BF4. Games that were complete in their own right, but added a TON of new content with expansions. There was nothing left out of those games that was saved for the sake of DLC purchases.
"Turning players into payers." Jeeeeeesus. They're really dragging the subtext straight into the text, aren't they?
It makes me wonder if these douchebags did not realize their little marketing video might get seen by the public.
They feel like they dont need to hide it.. When they're just doing what should be done.
Jim isn't kidding. These people literally see others as sources of money. Theyre alienated and its not for comedic effect.
Maybe we should make THEM pay?
"Turning players into payers." REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Blair White
It’s still dehumanizing people who play video games.
I wish Ferrari used Dynamic Pricing...
Darth Armis fuck Ferrari,I wish the housing market used dynamic pricing.
They probably would if they could make only a single car then be able to sell it to everybody.
inb4 you realise that its standart price will be its minimal because Dynamic Pricing aims for more money, not less
gearfriedtheswmas that's Fiat punto
Wouldn't help you much because fuel doesn't come with dynamic pricing and insurance costs *do*.
"Charging people different prices is fair because everyone has different incomes". By that logic I should be able to go down to the local dealership and get a Ferrari for $1,000 while the rich guys pay 100,000.
I mean, please? Can I get that Lamborghini?
(for the record, agreeing with you here) The absolute maximum end to that is that we should just quit our jobs. That way we can take anything we want for free, since that's essentially 100% our income at that point, which means by their logic that would be paying way more than the plebs who are *only* spending 10k on the game when they make 2 million a year.
But you know, they won't actually repeat this logic when it utterly screws them over.
Where is my free Ferrari corporations?
Ever heard of price discrimination? Same amount of money's worth is different for different people. A successful business knows how to achieve max consumer surplus. And yes charging different prices for a same product is fair. Why are you surprised?
You know why companies dont blatantly do it? Because mindsets like your reply. So they use different degrees/techniques of price discrimination which is categorically the same as charging different people the same thing differently. And people are suddenly fine about them just cause.
Exactly!
That pinned comment has so many replies that it lags chrome....
And it can't support more....
Okay? I see your point and I agree but it has nothing to do with why no more replies can be supported on that comment. Its not that the comment is locked or the user is keeping replies from being posted, its that its reached the max supported amount of replies that any comment has (which is 500). There's nothing anyone can do about that.
Yeah... it blew my browser too. And I was so desperate to fart in the posters face...
It has more likes than the video itself has dislikes. It's a 3 paragraph diatribe on a website where nobody reads too. That's extremely fishy. It also has 3 subscriptions off the back of those 1.7k likes. I'm sure it's downright fraudulent.
Right? hahahaha
Worth it.
"I can already see the posts on NeoGAF and Reddit now!"
Oh, I guess I know when th-
"...Well I can already see the posts on Reddit now!"
My sides entered orbit.
Publishers seeing THePunisher Xxx's comment: IT'S HUGE! FIRE THE HARPOONS BOYS, WE CANT LET THIS ONE GET AWAY! WE'RE GONNA MAKE A FORTUNE I TELL YA!
His point seems solid until you realize games cost a lot to publish not because of the development cost, but because of the advertisement cost. Triple-A publishers lead advertising campaigns at an average cost of tens of millions of dollars per game, which is always far more than what the game actually cost to develop.
If developers would self-publish and keep the advertising to game media like gaming news sites and such, while forgoing the primetime tv spots, the overall publishing costs would drop significantly.
No his point isnt "valid" at all. if they are blowing more on marketing than on game development then Publishers are morons....and I doubt they are. They know how to turn the bucks around. They are just excuses. Server costs are lies, dev costs are lies. How the fuck did they make the money back in the past? by giving games for free? No fuck that 12 yr old halo kid. He has no fucking idea what he's talking about and I bet that mommy and daddy aoy for his ass to be wiped too. Fuck him
I wasn't really agreeing with him. Dev costs shouldn't really have risen in the past few years. For every new technology someone invents, 5 others developed in previous games are streamlined for ease of integration (like how Unreal Engine 4 handles it).
But as a matter of fact, publishers do spend way more than they should on advertising. I do take some of what I said back, though. After looking into it, in most triple-A game cases, the ratio is pretty much 1:1, but in some cases, advertising costs _are_ way higher than the actual game development costs. I think CoD Modern Warfare 2 was one of the biggest offenders of this, with a 50 million development budget, and a 200 million advertising budget. But this isn't a new thing and has been happening for a generation now. Final Fantasy VII, back in 1997, also cost around 50 million to develop, and 100 million was spent on advertising.
Prime time TV Spots, cinematic trailers, trailer showings in cinemas, ads, billboards, you name it. All of those cost a LOT. For reference, a single 30-second TV Spot during prime time hours could cost upwards of 300,000$.
And the results speak for themselves. Which game are you more familiar with, even if you've never played it? Call of Duty, or ARMA? Like you said, publishers aren't idiots. They simply put the money into what they think will get more people to buy their games, and not into actually making those games good.
I know man, sorry, anger isn't aimed at you. It pisses me off that there's people that actually think like that. On your pint about marketing though. I understand that it's important to get the word out there, but I think there comes a point when you need to cut back on that. As a consumer I really do not give a flying fuck if they had to pay 100$ to make me buy a 60$ game. If that's the case, the problem is with the marketing. I should not pay for them to spread the word. Or rather I'd be inclined to understand if they didn't assign a marketing budget 4 times the size of the game dev costs. It's ridiculous
Extremely ridiculous. But the thing is, they don't care much about their marketing funds, because microtransactions now exist to cover those costs. It doesn't matter how many people vote with their wallets. Some people will always be willing to spend enough to cover the costs of dozens of missed potential consumers. And in the case the game still fails to reach the profit margin the publisher set, they blame the developer, cutting their funding or outright dissolving their studio. And this is done when games still generate a profit of tens and hundreds of millions of dollars. It's just not enough for those greedy publishers.
Publishers are the bane of modern gaming. That's why I'm done buying games from the triple-A scene. If developers want my money, they should self-publish, just like indie and double-A developers do. Divinity: Original Sin 2 and Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice are recent prime examples of the success of such endeavors. Hopefully more developers follow suit.
THePunisher Xxx is a classic case of "Video Game Stockholm Syndrome."
Meanwhile, the person who created that account is looking at this having a good old laugh about the whole situation.
I see 2 other possibilities. 1) An alt account of someone who works for a company like Scientific Revenue, or a game "developer" that does this stupid monetization shit. Or 2) someone trolling and laughing. Poe's Law after all.
More like "standard sub-IQ byproduct of [Insert Country Name here]"
@@StormsparkPegasus I know that this is way late but when I read it those were the first 2 things that popped into my mind and it's probably the first one
@@StormsparkPegasus I agree. seems like a case of bought "likes" just like russias internet research agency
As someone who wants to become a game designer, the industry makes me want to puke.
DemonGrenade274 Go indie now when they'll be the only ones left to turn to
I'm a programmer (not a game programmer), and everyone says gaming is one of the worst industries to work in. With insane work hours, crazy deadlines, low moral, and relatively low pay.
Well to be honest alot of that depends on what company you work for. Though insane work hours and crazy deadlines hit just about all studios during crunch time, low moral and low pay are very dependent on where you end up.
While I do plan on working for an existing company (at least for the first few years to get some experience), I have a list of companies I will not work for unless I absolutely have to. EA is one of them.
Hate them all you want, but they are the ones you want to work for if you want to work with truly talented ppl. As the indie has grown as it is, the big companies still the place where most talents will end up and they are the one you want to learn from before going independent. Unless you are truly genius that can already get paid from your work, you have to work for the big companies first, not to mention they are the one trying to get more new and fresh ppl.
As for how bad they are as an industry to work for, tbh that goes for every industry. If there is ppl running it there will be avarice.
DemonGrenade274 if a CZcams career dosent work out my plan is to become a concept artist for gaming companies (bethesda, etc) but the gaming industry needs to GET THEIR HEAD OUT OF THEIR ASS
That Scientfic Revenue video sounds like an ad from one of those dystopian movies where the squeaky clean facade hasn't cracked to show the dark underbelly yet.
stockicide fuck yeah, it is freaking scary
I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... And I am all out of bubblegum...
They have a version they show players that suddenly cuts to footage of a teacup being stirred.
Considering SciRev's sales pitch is probably illegal price discrimination, not a bad comparison
GET OUT, WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE?! OUT NOW
8:12 So, the American airline industry is under investigation for PRICE GOUGING during the 2017 hurricane season. Meanwhile Uber got a lot of customers to uninstall the Uber app after both acting as scabs during a January 2017 taxi driver strike and temporarily allowing PRICE SURGING during that time (they later disabled the price surging, likely only after the outcry).
Meanwhile Jackass McGee from Scientific Revenue here is telling us to look to these two industries for comfort? That's like being caught sneaking around at night with a machete and saying "Hey, don't worry about it! Lots of people walk around at midnight with a machete. Just ask my buddy, Jason Voorhees!"
DLC was the beginning of the end for gaming, everything went down hill after DLC was introduced, now corporations took over with their greed.
Machine learning? well LEARN THIS!!! I flipped off the screen, you didn't see it but it was totally badass
Daniel Staples hope your screen survived
Revolution against... THE TV!!!
Terminator: the Gaming Industry
What a child lmao
Somehow I can't shake the feeling that Jim pinned ThePunisher Xxx's comment just so he could memorize it for his Commentocracy.
I think that would be too on the nose, I'm betting it's something else.
I'm almost certain it was to direct people to his post so fans could tear him apart.
Apperantly it was something else.
It would have been funny, though.
I hope THePunisher Xxx enjoys getting exploited at every turn by the greed of today's tripple A gaming.
THePunisher Xxx Is either a sucky player that needs to buy victory or maybe he is good but likes the microtransactions to keep the competition low.
Kori Harpoon 😣😣😣😣what a fucking stupid, confused comment. So he either sucks, and needs micro transactions, meaning they give him an edge, Or he wants to keep them around to keep the competition low (the micro transactions are supposed to give the noob an advatage though) ???????? Fuck me I've heard it all now. So then what good are the micro transactions to anyone? Surely they should be propping the shit players up to compete with the good ones if anything. Jesus this is what happens when fucking cunts with bad genes have sex.
Do not attempt civil discurse with such a one sided person, it'll just be a waste of time.
WeegeeSlayer he’s probably a whale in denial about his OCD being exploited......or is a shill.
Neither would surprise me in the least.
To be fair, he probably does.
I think this is part of the reason the switch is so popular. I wouldn't touch any mobile games now, but I have no problem paying full price for games on the move that aren't wallet extraction units.
"Wallet Extraction Units" (WEU). I like that.
The Wii U console really isn't that bad, except for Super Mario Odyssey all the top selling Switch titles are already excisting Wii U games wich u can buy for the Wii U for 20,- as were the exact same games cost 50-60.- bucks on the Switch. People often complain about how limited the amount of games for the Wii U are but these games actualy carry solid quality in contrast to the Wii games. Nintendo tried going back to their roots, putting effort and love into their games and they were punished for it. For some mysterious reason Switch sales have already surpassed the Wii U profits by a multitude even tough at this point hardly anything significant has changed. And then there is the 'but we have more thin air in development then ever' excuse, the same bullshit excuse Activision and other triple A companies spew in your face constantly. I'm just not buying it anymore in both the literal and figurative sense of the words.
I strongly believe it's the former Wii console generation that strongly exploited the Nintendo brand reputation, that made significant amounts of short term money for Nintendo that caused the later downfall of the Wii U (altough the commercials were hideous aswel ofcourse). If you compare the Gamecube hardware (wich was in the grand line superrior) to the Wii hardware. The only real significant difference between the Wii U hardware and Switch hardware being the NVIDIA chip wich basicly enables steam games to be played on the switch (whoopdiedoo!). And ofcourse, hardware does not define how enjoyable a game can be, but I think we can all agree the Wii console game quality, talking about the conceptual content of the Wii games, was far below Nintendo quality standards. On top of that there is little the Switch can do the Wii U can't do, unless you value the option of playing steam games on a console.
And ofcourse there are nuances, but those hardly add up to justify the end result. For the first time in my life I can play all the Zelda games on a single console, the HD (hardcopy) versions I could order for 20,- each and the older console Zelda games at discount during a Zelda anniversary, I'm basicly set for life. Knowing I'm being pressured into buying an expensive console that adds gameboy function and steam games just so I can play games that could've pretty much effortlessly been released on Wii U aswel just doesn't sit well with me. I'll gladly just wait this one out until Nintendo releases a real console again and then perhaps I'll pick up some 'Switch titles' at discount aswel by that time.
I consider myself a lifetime Nintendo fanboy, I have collected all the Nintendo consoles, except for the abomination they call the 'Wii' and I don't plan on buying the Switch either for similair reasons, altough I do consider the Switch a somewhat lesser evil for the The Super Mario Odyssey game alone already, wich could've been released for the Wii U aswel. And don't get me wrong, I do hope a billion more dimwits buy the Switch and get to experience the Wii U experience, for all I care it's what they deserve. And perhaps this wil enable quality content once again in the future. There is simply too much of a demand to get fucked over on the market, that's just how it is.
If they had named the console the N256 instead of naming it Wii U, naming it after the abomination that is the Wii console, that alone would've made a world of difference.
For everyone who is wondering, what a Cassandra is:
Cassandra is a seer / oracle, that warned the Trojans to not take Gifts from the Greeks.
And we all know what happened to Troja
Beware of Trojans they're complete smeg heads.
One thing Jim forgets in the video is that, in the end, Cassandra was raped and killed by Ajax... I wish him well...TT
@@TheeLiteClub- I'd hate to be raped by an abrasive cleaning agent, ouch.
Thank you, I'll be here all night!
More precisely, she was cursed to be able to see the future, but also that nobody would believe her prohpecies
That was Laocoon who warned against Greeks bearing gifts, not Cassandra. Cassandra had tricked the god Apollo into giving her the gift of prophecy. He couldn't change it but got his revenge anyway by making it so that nobody would ever believe her prophecies.
"fuck with the orc merchant" best game of the year 2017
Possibly EA's best product this year.
They're coming...just wait.
Sylv Aine
Most meta game of 2017.
ROFLMAOOO
I remember a time when you paid full price for a game and got a full game in return.
When John Riccitiello was CEO of EA, he said almost that exact thing, but was presenting it to the audience as a *bad* thing.
wtf why?
Rembert when an expansion was an actual large addon. Like Oblivion shivering Isles?
Arrow Valley yep
The good old times
Remember back in the PS2 (and before) days, when gaming was so simple and convenient?
We totally took that shit for granted...
@Walther Penne Normies became the majority.
PS2 was my last non-handheld console.
Scientific pricing is an attempt to apply perfect price discrimination, which is a concept in economics that essentially means charging each individual consumer the maximum price they're willing to pay for a good. Price discrimination is an attempt by firms to take consumer surplus and convert it to revenue, and perfect price discrimination takes all consumer surplus and converts it to revenue.
I would need a legal expert to confirm this, but as far as I know, price discrimination is an anticompetitive and illegal practice in the United States, specifically that firms are required to charge all consumers the same price (see Robinson-Patman Act of 1936).
In a market that is already so geared in favour of firms and large corporations, surely there is a case for stronger government regulation against price discrimination, at least in its perfect form. What a disgusting business practice.
Thanks for bringing this to light Jim, you're a fucking hero.
Perhaps there's scope for a class action lawsuit? I'd donate to that fund even though I live in Australia. Stamp out this predatory business practice before it gets any stronger.
ccondescending The funniest thing is I never consider microtransanctions unless I get stuff for free so this would really be beneficial for me.
A system such as this opens a nasty can of worms. That it would urge impulse-buy mentality 100% of the time, targeting 100% of a persons disposible income. Leaving people constantly broke, and without a sense of self control. All the while thinking they've 'saved' so much money on 'deals'. They've saved nothing, they're broke always!
As an anecdote; This kind of semi-individualized/preditory appeal and conveinience factor is present in credit card solicitations, for example. Which also seek to vacuume up 100% of someones disposible income. Look what wonderfull opportunities that has commonly benefitted consumers; Chapter 7 bankruptcy.
not true just look at gas prices
@@murtisoft ha I saw what you did there. yea same price for each customer at any one location but not across different locations
But regional pricing makes a lot of sense and is actually to the benefit of the customer.
Let's say an item in a game costs 2€ and you have two customers. One is from California and the other is from Ukraine.
The Californian makes over 5000€ per month and pays 90% of it in taxes and expenses, ending up with 500€ free to spend on anything.
The Ukrainian makes 100€ per month and pays 90% of it in taxes and expenses, ending up with only 10€ to spend.
That's the problem with globally consistent pricing. Even if both the aforementioned players' buying-power in their respective countries is the same, the disparity becomes clear when only the nominal value of money matters.
So the perfect system would scale the 2€ pricetag up for the richest parts of the world, and down for the poorest.
"Turning Players into Players"
The AAA industry in a nutshell
CHRIPLE AYYY
why fuck triple A and stick to indie games, 2017 only been on game that interest me and it was "niche" game, fuck rest any game has microtransaction i will not touch don't care if game is fun, I'm not supporting this shit
candy crush in a nutshell
Nah... the literal AAA industry
In The Mind of Kibara me get want to re read your comment m8
You should be more understanding Jim, publishers are having a rough life. Look at EA, they are probably hitting a record high of only 5 billion dollars net profits this year, after a rough patch since 2015 where they didn't sunk bellow the 4 billion mark and kept a steady upward trend. My hearts and prayers are with them, poor bastards.
(Thanks for stepping up for us, the consumers
Life was very tough on them. They had a small loan of a million dollars.
They can barely afford to keep a development team, the poor babies. They keep "having" to Old Yeller them.
Poor EA was forced to close its studio Visceral Games because of financial difficulty. Its chairman, investors, and CEO only afford to buy 2 private islands this year so they need mictrotransactions to recover
um gajo perdido you tell then brother! Amen!
Where's their parade!? #EALivesMatter
Hey Jim - Love your show, great episode.
I recently had a panic attack from an interaction with my meds - I thought I was going to die. I saw white light creeping in at the edges of my vision, and could hear a choir of angels calling me forth to a serene rest.
And there, lo, I saw the face of that which is called I AM. The DEIURGE.
That is to say, God.
And there - in its glory, its unnameable and thoroughly terrifying presence...I managed to say one thing. Just one:
"Jim Sterling says to tell you 'thanks'."
TELL HIM HE'S WELCOME.
And then, on my bathroom floor, I came to.
Thought you should know. That, unlike these other so-called fans, I literally thanked God for you.
Wether or not this business model works or is popular it doesn't change the moral aspect of this model. Sure it's all legal but that doesn't mean it's not scummy
Yeah, It's like people forgot that slavery was popular. But i like to think that people more like, "i have no moral standards nor the ability to make thoughts. My only resource is to do what others do".
I think this is called "Psychology of the mass"
+Half Blind Productions
I think that this is one of the more interesting aspects of business that walks a careful line very close to the edge of legality. What this is mainly known as is third-degree price discrimination, which is a legal practice by businesses for surprisingly common things, such as price differences between adults, children, and the elderly in ticket sales. It could be also known as a discriminating monopoly, given how there is a monopoly control of a product/service exclusive to the company.
Where it gets tricky is if the price change is motivated by a "protected class" discrimination. Strangely, I don't know of any case whereby an age discrimination, such as for ticket sales, was used for a case against such practice; I guess age-related price discrimination is so common that no one is complaining about it? Perhaps it's because it serves as a boon, or simply because the Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 is the only age-related civil rights law and it doesn't cover age discrimination in business practices? According to the Elder-law section at the "Lawyers" commercial domain site, it seems to be the latter.
Interestingly, age is utilized in advertising and marketing demographics, and so far is entirely legal to be used for price discrimination and/or discriminating monopolies. It is highly unlikely that a more specific situation will arise whereby a major game developer will utilize price discrimination against a protected class, largely because I believe that they're mainly focused on consumer tracking data regarding purchase history and spending habits instead of true civil rights discrimination. Essentially, modern capitalism is a very callous field of consumer manipulation that has largely maintained legal absolution by keeping their scummy practices to data-mining along consumerism lines instead of civil lines. No civil liberties have been violated, and no civil rights have been discriminated against (so far).
So, unfortunately, these scummy business practices are fair game. I don't know if any consumer protection laws would be able to squash these practices, given the lack of legal precedence, but I'd certainly appreciate it if they did. Given how the topic in question involves a monopoly of a tax-dodging international game company, I doubt it contributes economically to US commerce and trade, and I doubt it has a positive impact on the income of artists and programmers (paid for their work, not based on the company's profit margins).
Ultimately, it is just another money-making business model that nobody likes, such as the Matrix Scheme of season passes: buy this "access pass" with our game, eventually we'll give you something else down the line! (followed by three cosmetic DLCs not worth the extra $40 tacked-on price).
I'm not even convinced it IS legal. It runs afoul of the principle of Illegal Price Discrimination (you cannot charge customers more if they do not make the service they order more costly). For reference, this is why restaurants charge parties of 6 or more, more money in their bill; it actually DOES cost the restaurant more money to seat and serve big groups. SciRev, by contrast, is offering to charge two otherwise identical customers different prices simply because one has more money in his bank account
+TRAINunit9
The more important factor is price elasticity of demand, since discriminatory monopolies require a difference in price elasticity of demand between consumers or different markets. You can calculate it as the percent difference in quantity of demand divided by the percent difference in price. However, this only applies to demand that is elastic. A change in demand is based on quantity and price, but since these are digital goods that have an infinite quantity (i.e. it never runs out of supply), the change in price has no effect on the change in quantity, so the price elasticity of demand is zero, also known as perfectly inelastic.
Because this service is perfectly inelastic, it is actually easier to legally practice price discrimination because the monopoly does not have to worry about price elasticity of demand. However, all of this could be upturned if the service/product being sold under price discrimination was capable of being resold by the customer to other consumers. In this case, there are digital barriers to keep customers from making arbitrage profits by selling among themselves (you cannot resell DLC, etc.).
+TARINunit9
Another thing to note for discriminatory monopolies is that the charging of different prices is not associated to the cost to provide the product or service. It is entirely legal to charge different prices for what amounts to the same product without any differences in cost to produce, since the restrictions are largely focused on consumer demand, as well as re-sale issues.
Also, while it sounds entirely scummy to segregate customers based on wealth, and it is scummy, it is also legal. There is no civil rights law or consumer protection law that protects people on the basis of financial class.
To put a little fuel into the fire: all products with flexible pricing mentioned as defense share one quality: they are limited resources. there are only so many plane seats, for example, therefore prices have to be adjusted according to supply and demand. With digital goods such as freemium currency, supply is virtually (heh) limitless, and therefore other economic laws (as in "laws of nature" but for economics, not actual legislature) apply. The bloke compares apples with seawater.
Plus, the Nash Equilibrium is a well known economical phenomenon that states that if everyone tries to recklessly get the max result, nobody will achieve the optimum and the system might even crash completely. Some have to "play suboptimally" so that the system as a whole can work.
In the end, SciRev is not only morally questionable, it is additionally, plain and simple, bad economics.
GavinHohenheim bad economics has a tendency to crash and burn horrifically, isn't that right 2008?
so, considering you seem to know more econonics than me, how long are you betting on until the market crashes? because i have 0 economics training and my guess is 5-10 years.
SciRev is the DeBeers model of software. Create an artificial scarcity and convince the masses they absolutely need your product. We don't need shitty games infected with their crap.
Spot on. All the examples in the article by Gamasutra had the limit of available supply, and thus this does not apply to virtual products where supply is virtually infinite. Good job pointing that out.
GavinHohenheim As an Economics student I love the fact that you've mentioned this
Hell you don't even need Nash Equilibrium to figure that out. That's basic math. There "was" limited money (but even still there is limited value for each dollar) and if everyone, selling games, takes more and more in the system then the value decreases which creates a massive wealth gap and then no one can buy your stuff, because the industry isn't interested in buying games, because they want to sell, but your customers don't have enough money to offset costs of selling... so you reach a stalemate where nothing can move and the industry is done.
and we all stupidly thought SkyNet was going to be a military AI
Dont 4 get about the jewish space lazors
I am disturbed by this trend. Gambling is _not_ legal everywhere. The reasons for outlawing it vary from place to place, but there _is_ always a great benefit to banning it - problem gamblers (addicts) will _not_ be tempted to play. Given the knowledge that "whales" exist, *isn't it UNETHICAL to **_provide_** this gateway for addiction?*
haha, ethics, don't say that in front of capitalism defenders, they shriek at the mention of morals.
Pedro Gomez Capitalism defender go for fair rules for everybody and if a service or product harms the people take it out also what happening here is corporativism, you don't need to be against capitalism to despise corporatism, actually most of the Pro-capitalism are against it.
From 2008 to 2010, smart phone gaming was pretty decent, from Plants Vs Zombies to decent AAA mobile ports that only required one-off payment up front and of course Doodle Jump.
That was indeed a life-time ago now.
Actually there is one correction that makes a HUGE difference: game sales are a bigger cut than microtransactions for _most_ pc games. Not the other way around. Remembering this will allow us to remember rule number one - if you buy the game with the intent of not purchasing MTs, you've sent no message to the publisher. But avoiding buying a game because it has microtransactions - this sends a message to the entire industry.
SeventyFive Which is exactly why Shadow of War will not enter my hands unless it's for free.
I think you're still right... for now... but I don't think this'll last much longer the way things are going.
Did you see the report that Blizzard put out for the amount of money they made off of loot box sales, $1 Billion dollars. EA made like 65 Million from Fifa 2K17 club microtransactions. Activision made Millions as well from Black ops 3 weapon crates. They don't need to just avoid the games that have MT's from these publishers but these publishers altogether whether a game has MT's or not. I feel bad for the Devs that work for them but they should be putting their foot down on this as well.
+SeventyFive The major problem with that is that you end up hurting the developers as well, and most of the time the developers don't really have any say in the financial decisions that are undertaken by the publishers and simply have to comply while trying to make those features (like loot crates, day one DLC, special edition content, etc) as irrelevant and unimportant as possible so they don't end up driving off the consumers.
It's a shitty situation nonetheless, but if a developers is able to pull this off and makes a worthwhile game in the process, you can still support them by purchasing the game *and* sending a message to the publishers by not buying any of the features that you don't like.
Here's the problem mate. The games industry seems to take a perverse delight in interpreting that data their own way. If a game isn't successful because the fans didn't like a favored pricing mechanic or some such, they'll insist that the problem is a lack of interest in the IP, whatever that happens to be. And indeed, from their point of view, its true.
Obviously they need to stop making games for that IP, and find a different one that is so interesting that people will put up with this kind of bullshit. So there's really no winning. They'll just keep doing the things they do. Because with few exceptions, they don't actually care about what we think.
I'm in this strange place right now. On one hand, I'm sad that this is the latest thing to plague the industry. On the other hand, I find myself gleefully receiving yet another industry video vivisection by Mr. Jim Sterling son.
Edit: Apologies, I meant Jim - *fucking* - Sterling son. Where are my manners?
LooneyJuice Either way we can thank god for Jim fucking Sterling son!
"Turning players into payers"
Nope! I'm out!
Sooo loot boxes arent gambling because your using real life money to buy fake money and using that to gamble. So why cant a 12 year old to go vegas and use real life money to buy chips and sit at the craps table?
Bat cup this is very late, but i think part of the rationale is that you can't cash out for real money (where the 12 year old in vegas presumably thinks that they can win cash if the casino let them buy chips). Some of the times this isnt the case and you can get cash for the in-game items, but its not the company selling you the items that is giving you cash for them.
P.S. I'm not saying that is not fucked up (or even that its not gambling). I just wanted to note where someone might make the distinction, and why the issue might be a little tricky from a technical standpoint to define it as gambling in legal terms (coming from lay opinion from someone who is explictly not a lawyer)
@@jeffkrenitsky5110 Well its pretty grayed area, since you said yourself that you can cash out, its gray because you can sell ingame items for cash, but cash is stuck on your ingame app, like Blizzard account and Steam wallet while its true that you cant use that money in real life, you can only use it to buy items from the game client for what represents real money. Still by tehnical definition gambling is:
1.the activity or practice of playing at a game of chance for money or other stakes.
2.the act or practice of risking the loss of something important by taking a chance or acting recklessly:
Opening lootboxes still gives you that gamblers high and adrenalin rush when you hope to get something good. You can get hooked on that like in any other gambling form.
@@jeffkrenitsky5110 If this is true, why isnt there a casino that pays people in goods or vouchers to dodge all the regulations against gambling?
It's more closer to a 12yo buying a lottery ticket than a going into a casino. You buy a product and hope for a prize, while the other is active betting on outcome.
The Wilson-lootbox is Still f**** up*** in either case tho
@@Dotalol123 You can use your wallet money to buy some stuff on steam and trade them for real money i have done it so many times i buy something after that i trade it the buyer sends the money to my paypal.
The entire "Let's all fuck with the orc merchant" part made me laugh so hard I woke up the entire house. I hope you're proud of youself, Jim
Who watches Jimquisition at 3 AM?
Rolls over, checks phone, sees new Jimquisition
OH BOY 3 AM
Full points for reference.
Not even close. Almost 6pm. Taking a looooong shit before going to work and watching Jimquisition in my throne room.
3AM? Where do you live, Japan?
According the US West Coast Time was merely 10AM when the video uploaded. Now it's almost 6PM where I live...
Fawful0 I watched it at 3pm. Are you sleep posting? You defeated your own nonsense otherwise.
3AM? But it's 4 PM. Wtf are you on?
I liked that pinned comment.
That guy would make a very good mark for a snake oil salesman.
I game developers/publishers were more like those of Grinding Gear Games (for free-to-play games) and CD Projekt Red (for $60, AAA games).
GGG's business model for their free-to-play ARPG game _Path of Exile_ is entirely based around easier trading (still possible without), more stash tabs for hoarding more loot, and purely cosmetic items - all while creating and developing significant updates to the game consistently throughout each year, for free - and it is impossible to spend real money to get farther ahead in the game over other players.
Then you have CDPR's business model, wherein they create a fun to play, interesting, well fleshed-out and well-developed game with mod support and a complete lack of microtransactions - aside from the equally well-developed story expansions, which feel like true expansions, not carved out pieces of the original game, and calling those expansions "microtransactions" does them a disservice.
And then you have most of the other fucking idiots in the game development/publishing industry who insist on nickle and diming you for the most mundane shit imaginable, with a lot of their excuses being, "Well, everyone else in the [x] genre does it, so what's the problem?".
I bought microtransactions in _Path of Exile_ (stash tabs and cosmetics) and I bought the expansions in _The Witcher 3_ . You know why? Because they were good fucking games in their own right and I felt comfortable enough with the amount of money I put in to begin with vs. the hours I enjoyed the game that I decided to put more money into those games so I could continue to enjoy them to an even greater extent. You know what games I don't enjoy? The ones that try and punish me and make me have an unenjoyable experience because I don't throw hundreds of dollars at a game that couldn't even get the basics right. I don't throw money at those types of games - I stop wasting my extremely valuable time playing them and go do something I actually _do_ enjoy.
Whoa, wait! @Jim Sterling You should definitely use a clip from The Talos Principle or Serious Sam, they have this "easter egg" of a guy in the company wearing a suit who just constantly yells "money!" while a big pile of cash sits on his desk. It's... Perfect.
Brilliant!
Use the clip from that Tom&Jerry movie, the one with the balding banker guy saying "We've got to have...money !"
OMG i just found it, would absolutely fit into one of Jim's videos!
18:29 love this game that you invented Jim!
Someone remix those sounds into an EDM track please. I need this.
Now we just need a mod where we kill him again and again and again and again and again...
Apparently the merchant has a very complex vocabulary consisting of "Blehh" "Bahh" "Wiihh" "Beeh" and "Blahh"
"love this game that you invented Jim!"
EA: People love doing that?
Now for purchase: Merchant Sound DLC $4.99
It's fine. It's cosmetic.
It'll have microtranactions in it sooner or later as well with Dynamic pricing calculated based on a person's Taxes.
I stopped playing mobile games in 2012. They went from a harmless, cheap experience, to just utter crud that milks you for pennies. If I'm out, and want to play a video game. I bring my 3DS. Nintendo still seems to adopt the good old policies.
This video just got you a sub :)
Explains so much what is wrong with the gaming industry.
Indie games are the future for now.. i hope they find the revenue they need, to stay around.
Stay around and not get sucked up by the Triple Pay publishers
THePunisher Xxx - A couple of things:
The development and success of Hellblade pretty much negates 90% of your argument about compensating the expense of making a video game in modern day.
Also coming from a guy who has worked in the industry, the tools and software used in making those games has become much cheaper and made much more easily accessible in recent times. Some publishers have ridiculous expectations, like EA not thinking in the long term when they think Dead Space 2 selling 4 million copies as not successful, that's really successful for a game in that genre.
The biggest problem in the industry today is the control and pressures that publishers put on developers, EA being the worst offenders. They set themselves up to fail by only investing in producing 100 million dollar games and not looking where they can push the envelope elsewhere; so in case they don't re-coup that 100 million they jam micro-transactions and loot-boxes into the game, even going to the point of changing the game design entirely so they can force that crap in.
Look at how successful companies like Rockstar, CD Proj Red are when they are left to create a game without publisher pressure. But sadly most publishers aren't interested in the quality of the games/gaming experience but only how much cash they can milk from it.
Also, you say ''You are not in the industry' to Jim, but hasn't Jim done some voice-over work for video games? I'm pretty sure that constitutes working in the games industry in some form.
You are putting a lot of hope in Developers that have given us more than enough signs that we are just another paycheck, the moment you accept this darkness is the moment you can see the light.
All this money you are spending? Enough to buy your daughter or your sister that cute or cheap diamond necklace.
Enough to fill the whole fucking fridge with snacks.
The developers are not paid by the game's profit. They couldn't care less about micro transactions other than the fact that it is mandated from above and EA will NOT SELL THEIR GAME if they don't shoehorn it in.
Developers are paid to make the game through contract. And if they can't fulfil that contract, the publisher doesn't care. Either they ship the game anyway, the way it is, or they get a few months to iron it out with NO PAY or reduced pay. But regardless of the game being a flop or making all the money in the world (by quality or forcing micro transactions through their costumer's noses), the developers will get the same pay check... usually FAR bellow the earning of equivalent professionals in ANY other industry.
Let's also account the fact that Undertale, on the budget of a box of crayons, became _mega-popular_ and elevated its creator into the status of a millionaire. And this was all without flashy presentation, and hyper-realistic details all the way down to the last fucking polygon on goat-mom's ass; it did so on being a genuine and powerful product in its own right that got people invested. *And all of that without manipulating the fucking customers out of pennies.*
RichardRichard Snotface
Id just like to say that Rockstar shouldnt be held up as a virtuous game dev.
Other than that, I 100% agree.
Jim is an expert on the industry. Just because he isn't a part of the problem and actively defending corporations and trying to rip people off doesn't mean he isn't a part of the industry.
Dynamic pricing.
What they want you to think: They're making microtransactions cheaper for people who can't afford them.
What's actually happening: They're making microtransactions more expensive for people who can afford them.
What is actually happening: They're making microtransactions affordable to everyone. Now you have no excuse.
$100 is affordable to some people, should they pay that for a new skin?
Does that mean I can sell you a 1 dollar bill for 2 dollars because you can afford it?
And therein lies the moral issue
Who says you have to be able to afford it? Thanks to the wonders of Dynamic Pricing, all players can enjoy the privilege of being tricked into buying loot [container of choice]s until they are destitute and starving.
EA stock crashes,
Fallout 76 crashes...
Suddenly I feel more alive.
So any other bipolar people (or anyone with similar mental illnesses or disabilities) really skeeved out by this? I'm type 2 and medicated well enough that my hypomania isn't too bad, but the idea that algorithms could learn the typical cycling patterns of people like me is creepy and manipulative, moreso than the already skeevy manipulation of neurotypical or players with unipolar/major depression.
It's even worse to think about potential future applications that might specifically target the mentally ill or developmentally disabled by looking at social media or other activities on phones for signs of mania, psychosis, or other signs of impulsivity and vulnerability. I think what scares me even more than that is I think deep brain stimulation and similar implant devices are the future... and, well, the idea that games could read the input/output of a device that manages my brain's own vulnerabilities and use it to sell me things is particularly dystopian.
Anyways, to Jim and anyone else who studies this kind of AAA shitbaggery, keep an eye out. I might sound paranoid, but these publishers for sure aren't above manipulating the mentally ill.
Me, and yeah this stuff is in the realm of draconian to me. Actually it's so disturbing I don't even know the word to describe it.
You should rename “The Jimquisition” to “Why Another Market Crash Needs to Happen, Reason Number [EPISODE NUMBER HERE].”
"Why Someone Should No Russian The EA Corporate Offices To Send A Message Reason #:"
Jack Casey except if a crash happens Mobile gaming will just take over
I wonder if Nintendo will save the industry again or Rorschach it this time
Connor Reynolds jesus chrirst i dont like micro transication but shoot up a ofice over them the fucks wrong with you kid
I don't think nintendo has it in them, at least right now, to save the Industry that they are only remotely associated with at this point. Sure, Nintendo makes games, but the Nintendo sphere of Influence is their own systems, a microcosm that behaves and feels very different than the rest of the industry, with it's own pitfalls and highlights. If a crash happens (Which I doubt), Nintendo will either be unaffected or crash at a different point in time due to how hermetic their business is.
Heres a thing that really stands out in my memory because dev talks about finance are typically the most depressing thing ever, i get a constant sense of despiration from them constantly...
Anywho:
i was at a small game dev conference last year and a dev from Fireproof Games was giving a talk. 2mins in to his planned speech he snapped and went on a rant about how devs shouldnt care about meta data and should really focus on making the games they want to see. Ignore the alledged market demands of being F2P, if you make a good game you can make money on a single payment game (using their The Room as an example). Everyone cheered, it was very refreshing to hear this alternative (even though its older) to an imagined demand for free to play. The microsoft rep who was on after really struggled to win the crowd back :P
Rad McCool That's what we want to hear yes, but it is not the truth. You can do that. You can win the lottery.
There just needs to be a balance. From the dev side, yes costs of development are rising and they need to combat it. But I discussed in The Sixty Dollar Myth exactly what the problem is. The needle swung to the extreme end.
I think the larger studios are (and have been) pushing _really_ hard for a Hollywood style business model, they are both unsustainable systems which used to enjoy a monopoly on distribution but the web era is forcing them out of their comfort zone and causing scummy practices.
Half the complaints people make about Marvel films and the CoD series are interchangeable. It's the same mindset and may be the same investors involved
I think this is the crux of the issue. And ultimately a significant portion of the blame lies on the core of gamers. In some ways we were happy to accept this world because for many it didnt affect us. We didnt need to pay more because some other person was droping 40 dollars for a hat (or some such nonsense). Thing is, seriously sit and ask yourself what the community would do if a developer just honestly said, hey, this next big budget single player game, its going to cost $90. In that you get all the content, no chopped up dlc, no microtransactions, but the sticker cost is $90 or 100 or whatever it needs to be. Do you really think the community is ready to look at that with a rational mind?
George M Back in 2011 I'd have bought Skyrim for 100$. Not every game is Skyrim though.
you're not playing the game. you're the game being played.
Welp, here we are now. And he called it again.
Games don't make enough money anymore? I never asked for SWBF2 to be the second highest budgeted game in history. If they can't make their game financially solvent then that is their problem. I'm not here to pick up the fucking tab because of their shit budgetary management.
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot EXACTLY!!!
Its the exact same issue all entitled rich people have.
They think they're struggling to make ends meet.. Because they overspent on luxurious events or items.. Believing that money spent. Is money earned..
Downsizing is rarely considered at the effective level with companies like this. And all it does is make them alienated to their livelihood and product.
that is exactly it, for example terraria is probably THE game i had the most fun with ever, it's just a "small" indie game, with pixelated graphics and a tiny budget compared to AAA games which can barely entertain me for 12 hours. but hey, gotta make games as expensive as possible, gotta market our games with an expensive car on the E3 stage or popular figures that most gamers don't even care about, nor know about, gotta get the 10th remake of a map everybody has already played to death, gotta have those cut scenes that add absolutely nothing to gameplay, and don't forget to make a new engine for every new release.
You know how people get when the graphics aren't "pretty enough to make your eyes bleed". What a superficial gaming culture we have.
Now excuse me while I play Dwarf Fortress.
If I knew you in real life I'd buy you a drink!
Calling it now: “Turning Players into Payers” will be a new meme.
Life's good, when you're turning players into a tv that looks like an anime fan on prom night.
Artemiy Solopov Replace “anime fan” with “SKELETON WARRIOR” and we’re golden.
Anon E. Mousse to cringy not to be.
Anon E. Mousse no it won't. Memes just start being memes. If you can predict what will become a meme than it won't be.
Abdel Hassan You can on this show. Look how many people called the orc merchant becoming a running gag.
so many funny bits in this video...you are a very funny/clever man Jim...the editing is spot on!!
Holy crap Jim! You were playing Money from The Dark Side of the Moon in the background from 7:25 to 10:31!
*intensive clapping*
That is so incredibly apt. Everybody!
_Money, get away._
_Get a good job with good pay and you're okay._
_Money, it's a gas._
_Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash._
_New car, caviar, four star daydream,_
_Think I'll buy me a football team._
_Money, get back._
_I'm all right Jack keep your hands off of my stack._
_Money, it's a hit._
_Don't give me that do goody good bullshit._
_I'm in the high-fidelity first class travelling set_
_And I think I need a Lear jet._
_Money, it's a crime._
_Share it fairly but don't take a slice of my pie._
_Money, so they say_
_Is the root of all evil today._
_But if you ask for a raise it's no surprise that they're_
_giving none away._
Jim, Cassandra could prophecise events of the future, but her curse was not be be believed. So it may be more accurate than you think :P
I do believe that is exactly the point Jim is making.
I think that was exactly the point there
lunahula who's Cassandra!?
+SBN
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassandra
@SBN it's a Greek myth and now a metaphor - Apollo provided Cassandra with the gift of prophecy, but when she refused Apollo's romantic advances, he placed a curse ensuring that nobody would believe her warnings.
Once the PSN store figures out I only buy games at 80% discount price, I will go on a buying streak to end all buying streaks.
This comment brilliantly shows how anti-consumer this crap is. Well done!
spencer I mean to be fair this would be a case of a consumer being aware of the horrible program behind it and playing the corrupt system to their advantage.
Keep doing what you're doing Jim! I've followed you throughout the years and your words have always nailed all of the industry issues at hand. Thank god for Jim!
_eventually, you'll have hunted all the whales. They cease to breed there, they find new grounds, and you suddenly have a very large amount of open spaces in your company._
The day microtransactions went too far was the day Solitaire introduced its monthly plan.
UltraDirectorJester damn really...
Tht does take the cake
It costs $5.00 extra for the satisfying card avalanche victory animation.
Than they should first start with using the actuall Solitaire rules for the game itself....now Minesweeper micro transactions....
UltraDirectorJester "Stuck? Draw an extra card for just $1!"
I don't know. Fable 3 wanting to charge me $0.99 to make my pantaloons black was really asinine.
It's funny how gaming debates change over the years. Remember when cheat codes in games like GTA San Andreas were called "too seductive to ignore and undermined the game." Now we have the "totally 100% optional" microtransactions all up in our shit.
How the times change, and these "Optional cheat passes" aren't even permanent. There is always a better "Cheat code".
I think the industry has hit rock bottom in terms of ethics .
Disgusting just, disgusting.
It's been five years. I'm sure when you posted this, corpos seemed downright angelic in comparison. I wonder if that rock will ever stop tunneling a new bottom.
I'm loving the use of stock photos more and more with every video.
The biggest issue with ALL of the examples, they are based on merchandise or content that has LIMITED QUANTITIES there's only so many Airplane tickets or Auctions are for a singular item, things that live on the back of supply and demand. The availability for digital content is practically limitless, which makes the idea of supply and demand pointless.
Underrated argument.
agreed it costs virtually nothing to have storage of a digital medium you only need the storage space for the original code on a server then you download a copy of the microtransaction and boom profit.
I'm sure Nintendo can conjure up a way to make digital content scarce.
Great comment.
I wish this comment got pinned since this is a major and valid point.
I’m waiting for Jim to read out the pinned comment on a future video it would be gold
That guy is the entire reason this bullshit exists
The cringe is strong on that one.
honestly it looks like you can't reply to that comment anymore and I was curious to know if that guy was a dev.
I've met DEVELOPERS with that mentality, it's fucking disgusting.
Wait until Thursday my friend, and I suspect your prayers will be answered. And then you will thank God for Jim Fucking Sterling Son.
I think it's hilarious that he pinned it.
This video is so on the money and I am grateful to have someone like this standing up for players. Way to be Jim, we appreciate it.
That "Slaughtering Grounds" screenshot, though...
Hes just gonna read that pinned comment out on Commentocracy now lol.
Crazy Zaul I hope so. Could make a season out of it. Lol
He fucking better
Oh god I hope so. That whole comment could be a mini-quisition I feel
The sad thing is he's right. Majority of players don't mind microtransactions. Look at Shadow of War's numbers. Unfortunately those of us who recognize these tactics as bullshit are in the minority.
Crazy Zaul God, I hope so.
To me, this brings back the old _"are video games art?"_ argument. As an avid gamer, I've long defended them fervently as such. Now though, I'm not so sure. Once games went from a piece of a developers soul programmed into a computer to an incessant shotgun blast of _"enter your credit card number for this gun; this shirt; this paint job; these boots; this chest; these orcs; etc etc etc ad nauseum"_ , I just can't see them as art anymore. Now they're just... Products- like shoes or car accessories.
But movies are accepted as art and they have the same problem.
Art can itself be a product.
Is this kind of a shit art? I wouldn't consider it so, certainly not GOOD art. But games can be either art or product.
The odd part being that car accessories can transform a car into art in the eyes of the owner but a shirt for $19.99 that gives you an XP boost cannot be defined as art by any means at all. It's rather sad that I used to truly love video games but as time has passed I find myself spending more money on my car than I do caring about the gaming market.. with the reason being that my car is more reliable than the game I'm playing so I feel compelled to improve it even further.
Games are art in the way movies are art. If you look at the latest Michael Bay Transformers movie as your example of whether movies are or are not art, then you're likely to conclude they're not.
Likewise if your measure of whether a game is art is looking at Call of Duty or Battlefront or Shadow of War then you'll be similarly disappointed. But then there are games like Furi or Cuphead or Undertale or Stardew Valley or even Mario and suddenly the outcome isn't so clear.
I tend to see it as less black-and-white; Gaming is, in broad terms, a medium. Not everything created in a Medium is Art, and not every piece of Art created in a given Medium is *good* Art (however that might be defined; I believe it's uncontroversial to say that a piece of Art can be *bad* Art, or bad at being Art, while still technically being Art).
Are Video Games Art? No. 'Video Games' is just a Medium, just like Oil On Canvas, or Feature Films. Can a specific game be Art? Yes, yes it can; we have many examples of individual games which are Art. We also have many examples of individual games which are poor quality Art, and many examples of individual games which are not Art at all. Merely putting oil-based paint on a canvas with brushes does not confer upon your result the quality of Being Art by default; likewise merely making a video game does not confer upon that game the quality of Being Art by default.
Do I know what is necessary to make some Art as opposed to Not Art? No, I am certainly no expert on what makes a given thing Art. The simple fact that there are things that are, and things that are not Art within the same Medium, however, means that there must be *some* difference, and that difference is not necessarily a matter of Medium.
I feel it is important to state explicitly that just because something isn't Art does not automatically mean it is not good, or fun, or enjoyable, or pleasant. Art has no monopoly on 'things people enjoy', after all.
its still art, just that type of modern art bullshit where a squiggle can sell for a billion bucks (although that analogy is probably better for mobile games so good shitty corporate games are just the decent shitty modern art)
What exactly would happen if the gaming industry "collapsed"? Would a bunch of AAA companies go bankrupt? Wouldn't that be a good thing by making more room for other companies?
I can see the companies who survive will likely focus on more mid-tier budget games and try to appeal to smaller and niche audiences.
companies like sony will prob not go out since they have other branches but if this goes on people will def get sick of it...the amount of people buying games will drop, with the raising costs of games they will eventually not make enough money to make up the costs and if they decided then to remove lootboxes to get goodwill back, most people woulda jumped ship by then
though i have no idea how long its going to take...it make take years before it gets to the point where they cant make enough money to make up for all the bad things they do..and some companies have other branches so all that would happen is them closing their gaming branch and living on and getting away with their scumminess...look at konami i mean, it'll be like that for all the other companies..
Jim you are constantly improving on the quality of the videos, keep up
Every Monday is just getting jim one step closer to getting black listed by every single company on the planet
Who the actual fuck care? Companys should kneel to us the customers, we pay for their products, if we dont buy their products them they deservet it
Accelerator Exactly
this is so true. I am constantly preaching this. gamers need to realize we have the power to basically dictate the market to make it what we want. there are enough of us that we can force laws to be enacted.
Yes, but then we need more and better consumer education and protection. Especially the latter. Not everybody can be bothered to dive into the game.. er.. 'scene' as much as we do. Nor should they have to to ensure they're not.. er.. messed with.
"Nothing stands between you and monetization."
Nothing except... you know, good conscience and morals.
Ascended Life Form haha you idiot what the fuck are talking ab-
Some ppl dont have the patience to be good and moral.
"if you need to compare yourself to the pharmaceutical industry, I don't know what to tell you" Bout sums it up.
Want to lower the cost of game-creation? Stop feature-creep, stop bloating games, stop wasting equal or more on advertising than the actual production-costs, aim for certain audiences, do what your studio is good and proficient at. A studio that is almost entirely focued on MP shouldn't do SP games etc.
I suspect the opposite is more common for the latter tbh. Singleplayer game devs mainly having to shift gears into the multiplayer game craze as of late.
I also wouldnt mind pay more than 60€ for a game, if I had the feeling it was worth it. But for a product to sell at a higher price, you would actually have to put in effort to amke it a good game. Making a shitty game and cramming in loot boxes is way easier and you run less a risk of not selling enough copies due to bad reviews. The big publishers have become cowardly and complacent. They do not inovate, but rather paddle the same bs over and over and savely make a profit.
Lowering profit is the very antithesis of what they are about. As long as they can scam people into paying for shit they think they like then no one loses.
This comment easily shoots holes through that apologist rant by THePunisher Xxx
THePunisher Xxx is a moron.
Games are actually much cheaper to make then it used to.(better/cheaper game engines)
The problem lies mostly in advertising and greed.
The publishes are too greedy.
The gaming industry is seen by them as a way to sell their online casino to minors.
yes it is lucrative but also immoral and they don't care.
So a company that makes a successful 3 year development game and makes good profits has to watch in astonishment at how EA makes 10 times their profit in a single year by producing shit/no effort content.
So it is quite obvious what is happening, every publisher is jumping on the bandwagon.
It has nothing to do with games being expensive at all, in fact none of those companies wants to show their books to prove how expensive it is.
Suddenly I realized, the talk of the 'apocalyptic rherotic' made me recall some research I did on the 1929 wallstreet crash... You know when the entire economy crashed, because companies wanted to keep making money, so they over-produced goods people weren't buying anymore only to find that suddenly the actual value of their companies dropped when they didn't sell as much and their companies profits fell...
THePunisher Xxx: _"I'm sure your sheep audience will rush to downvote me."_
Jim: _"Actually yes."_ **pin**
Downvotes aren't even a thing on CZcams anymore
That comment has so many replies I can't even fucking comment on it. Shame, wanted to have fun.
yeah, shame i cant comment. simple answer is "they used to be able to do it, with a much smaller audience, and much fierce competition"
No one seemed to mention that he accused Jim of not being part of the industry, but Jim has worked as a voice actor and as a consultant, hasn't he?
Revenge Stalker I thought it was actually sarcastic
Great video Jim. We need you. Please keep it up.
Thank you for bringing back the classic theme Jim
Triple Paid Games
Nice pun there..but even triple probably won't be enough for these companies. They need INFINITE
First payment is the game itself, second payment is all the DLC, and third payment is the microtransactions.
I prefer calling it polyfeeism.
Games like Nier Automata, Nioh, Horizon Zero Dawn, Hellblade Senua's Sacrifice, Cuphead, Divinity Original Sin 2 and so on prove that when AAA publishers claim that disgusting business practices are necessary they are about as honest as Randy Pitchford.
ijakoan oh you mean the games that games media stops covering but wait look at all this cool new Shadow of War stuff, and wow Destiny 2. Let's talk about these games and gloss over microtransactions cause they're not in your face.
Not to mention we just had hellblade come out. A game that looks as good as any AAA release for the low low price of 30 bucks. By all accounts it's apparently been a great success. According to these jag offs that can't happen but somehow it just did.
I`m thinking they are necessary for the publishers, but maybe one day soon, game developers will realize that the AAA publishers aren`t necessary anymore.
Leave them to their own plans. We'll just support devs who self-publish and put out good games. It'll be mostly PC games but the PC gaming industry never relied on AAA as much as consoles have.
Add The Witcher 3, one of the biggest and best games ever made yet not a MTX in sight and the payed Pass got you two huge Expansions with one feeling like a whole new game in itself, even without the Pass discount those Expansions were a fucking bargin on their own.
That Neogaf jab... best chuckle I've had today
Jim I usually play one of your videos, to fall asleep to in the background, when I can’t sleep.
Hit the lever!
IGV IOS and Android Gameplay Trailers The lever being the game industry's dick
@THePunisher Xxx
What a flacid penis
RIP Silent Hills. We will never forget.
WRONG LEVEEEER !!!
+Johan Dale Why do they even _have_ that lever, anyway?
Life's good when you're turning players into payers like a TV that looks like an apple on prom night.
Glad to see you're back to the old intro song, much better!
hi from game theories, MatPat recommended your video and it was totally worth watching it!
"Players into Players" Faith_In_Humanity.exe has encountered an unexpected runtime error.
Cameron Goode Do you mean "into payers"?
Cameron Goode Excellent typo is excellent.
Let’s be honest, Science Research is full of bullshit when they pull the “different incomes” card.
If there was a poor gamer that had a gambling complex and a rich gamer that spent money once in a while, we know exactly which one they’d sell to.
the answer is ALL of em, cuz theyre greedy cunts who would even take money from a blind baby
Their explanation is actually just a smaller scale use of the "what the market can bear" pricing idea that different international markets have been dealing with since the rise of digital distribution... and not just with games.
It's always been bullshit, it's just been distilled again. I wonder what the next episode will be?
Although I feel I must point out an ugly truth here... it *does* work. Gambling addiction isn't just some natural genetic thing that some unfortunate souls drew a short straw on. It's trained into people, and it's been trained into some kids who get their allowance on a credit card that's been plugged into a touchscreen device for literally their entire living memory.
This is only going to get uglier.
"Gambling addiction isn't just some natural genetic thing that some unfortunate souls drew a short straw on. It's trained into people'
I wasn't taught gambling in any way but it doesn't make it less attractive to me. If anything it was the opposite, actually.
I'm a gambler by nature and only able to control myself fairly well most of the time where I almost certainly wouldn't otherwise because my family was dirt poor growing up meaning there was nothing to gamble with. I got used to not being able to do it, in other words. Well, for the most part.
And even then that mightn't have mattered if I wasn't so stuck on sticking to my principles. If it wasn't for the principle of the matter I'd probably buy the fuck out of things like lootboxes because I literally can't think of a greater thrill than gambling.
I don't think you understand how gambling works very well in a biological sense.
Especially in this modern kind of gambling.
Risk in general is a thrill because of how your brain works. When it pays off it's a fucking chemical rush in your brain.
In the past this would've been useful to reward yourself for simply choosing right and surviving but we're far passed that now. There's no real risk to be seen (you aren't going to die if you get the wrong card, or the wrong outfit from a lootbox) so it's ONLY reward.
It's a natural tendency that has been preyed on and for some perhaps exacerbated, but the preying doesn't make it not a natural tendency. In fact, there would be no point in preying on it if the tendency didn't exist to begin with. You're an idiot.
Tessa Bain While i agree with you, i kinda think that was his point, like he said gambling isn't JUST, it's more than that (may be wrong as i can't read his mind) but inherently we were all born with it, as it stimulates our reward centres, in many ways it's no different than a heroin shot, or the rush of a crush/love, so yeah the only thing saving most of people from blowing all their money on it, is either the fact they have no money to blow in the first place, or have really good self restrain...
The "different incomes" thing is a red herring (as much as "inflation" is) - if they were really worried about that and lost sales due to people not being able to afford things, AND they really wanted to directly go after used-games-sales, then they would build a lowering-sale-price model into the system. If 3-6 months after launch (depending on when sales dip) you could get the game for $20, then people with mess money could just wait for the sale(s). For MP games or games with a MP mode, where waiting is more difficult, you do map packs like the old days, but you charge for them at first, and then give them away. Yes, you have periods of fragmentation, but then everyone is brought back to together - those that need it ASAP pay for it, those that cannot, can wait for reduced prices or wait for the maps to be free for all.
OF course, its not about lost sales based on price or the used market, it's that no matter how much you made, it needs to be more. It HAS to be 50mm for dev, 50-100mm for marketing, and no less than 1B in revenue (or at least 300% profit) or "it's a failure". OW - Greed
18:30 Glad to see Jim having a good time. It's always healthy to take some time off from being infinitely (though rightly) pissed.
The annoying this is that loot boxes could have been a good thing in games if companies hadn't gotten so fucking greedy. If they had purely been available as rewards for time/effort spent in the game and in no way an option to buy with money I would love them.
I used to defend the Overwatch ones but as every event gets more and more limited time skins and extras and every time you open one you get shite suddenly the pressure is there to buy some boxes. I'm already paying to play the damn game on PS4.
I really like the idea of using two intro themes depending on the type of Jim we're getting that week.
Stress ---> Jim Sterling
Born Depressed --> Jim Fucking Sterling Son!
So micro transactions today are like walking into a bar after paying the cover charge. You go to the bar and order a drink. The wait time is 30min... Unless for pay $2.99 to "expedite" your order. Then you get your beer and it's half head. So you want to ask the waitress but she was outsourced to India. So then you want to order some wings (don't forget to expedite that order for $2.99) and you are informed you will get a random assortment of wings, some mild/hot/no flavor. You can spend an additional $8.99 to make another order to get a better chance of the wing flavour you want... Or you can spend $24.99 for the Hot Wings season pass to get at least 70% hot wings per order for 6 months. You can also spend another $4.99 to customize the bar stool you are sitting on, but the customization fades when you head to the bathroom... Unless you spend $12.99 for the Reserved Seating DLC.
Jesse Miller This is the most underrated comment in CZcams history. Bravo 👏.
This comment is sadly accurate.
Wow this is accurate as fuck. Reading this saddened me deeper because one of my favorite things to do is eat wings at a sports bar after a long day of blue collared work.
And in that setting, there'll be a man sitting at the far corner stool, scarfing down about 20 plates of wings. It reminds me of my favorite analogy, where a doctor tells a patient they have a deadly brain tumor, and the patient just goes "Nah, I'll be fine as long as I ignore it! I don't have to spend money on that tumor; if I'm patient enough, it no longer becomes a problem!"
I think you guys can notice what that's referencing there.
Great video Cassandra of Video Games!
That Scientificrevenue video had the same style that was in Doom3 game in those UAC video presentations, I always liked to hear the narrator in them especially in BFG 9000 video.
Upvote if you refuse to buy Battlefront 2 or Shadow of War cause of this shit. I feel lonely
im here bro
Seeing as I don't have an extraneous pool of money to spend on games, I'm saving for quality game like wolfenstein, super Mario odyssey, and other games that won't try to milk the hell out of me.
WASNT GONNA BUY THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE. i only support non scumbag companies now. Mainly been playing divinity original sin 2 and cuphead. Fucking love them.
I wont. Not that my compuiter could run them anyways.
I'm playing the REAL Battlefront 2. Also, recently made my return to Homm 4. Feels good man. I think I'm gonna play some Disciples soon.
You have to know that if this definitively existed in a PC game, within days someone would create some sort of application to run in the background to ensure you get the minimum pricing and have it 'sold' to you as infrequently as possible.
Endyo ahh, £0.01 for 100 lootboxes. That would be nice.
Don't forget EA background bitcoin mining, we are used to their games running 100 % CPU anyways!
Endyo dont try and sugarcoat it
They'd just fuckin make a crack of the game
That too. Isn't PC gaming beautiful?
and that price would be 0
the price of the game itself would also be 0
oh wait we already do that
Man, that dynamic pricing sounds a lot like how Enron tried to "package" gas pricing. That's creepy as hell. I really hope gaming doesn't go to the same end.