Hope he's ok! I didn't realise his last video was actually 3 years old! I hope he comes back and makes more videos as I miss his take on one of my all time favourite computers!
Recently found your channel, I was a STFM owner back in the day. I just wanted to say, If there is any doubt in your mind about your ability to make quality videos, banish it from your mind! This channel is awesome, truly the best ST channel to be found on the internet. I hope you can make a comeback and maybe start a Patreon. I have only just finished watching your library and already you are sorely missed, and clearly I am not the only one feeling this way. :)
Thank you so much for your kind words, Adam! I really do miss making ST videos so I am really considering coming back to make some more. Lovely comments like yours certainly motivate me to do so.
@@thejoyofsticks Oh man that would be awesome if you did, even if it were just a video a month, though I totally get why you took a step back. Still remember the Mists of Pandaria videos you started many moons ago! Have you had a chance to check out Dragonflight yet? It's pretty good.
Going straight from 8-bit computers like the BBC & Electron to the likes of Eliminator and Nebulous on the ST seemed mind-blowing at the time, both aged really well I think.
20 games that weren't pirated! Back in the day many computer gamers never reached such a number of legitimate copies of games (excluding compilations and maybe kixx/the hit squad budget issues and the likes), so having 20 games from the get-go was certainly a treat. Star Goose is interesting and to be honest I didn't know about it. Double Dragon is objectively very bad (and the coin-op isn't much better nowadays) but at the time we weren't bothered by super repetitive and frustrating gameplay as much as we would be today. You had Double Dragon, one of the most hyped games of the 80s, at home on your ST, it kind of looked the part, it kind of played the part..it was more than enough for loving it! And even bad games weren't so bad in co-op. I also had no idea that Eliminator and Nebulus were made by the same author, but it totally makes sense since they are technically on a very high level. I played the C64 version of these games and they are incredible with all sorts of programing tricks.
🤣Yes! Very few of our games back then were originals! We would occasionally rush out to get something we were super hyped about and couldn't wait for it to trickle down through the illegitimate trade routes. I remember rushing out to get Kick Off 2 and Sensible Soccer when those came out. The big, glossy boxes were like treasured possessions next to my box full of copied floppies! :D You are so right about Double Dragon. After playing the arcade, I think I was just delighted to have a version at home that I could play whenever I wanted to for free! The same thing happened with Golden Axe too. A less than stellar conversion (but so much better than DD) but I was smitten from the first play.
I'd put R-Type up one higher. I didn't have this software bundle, but a friend of mine had that game, and it was my first exposure to the series. Without comparing it to the cabinet version, it has solid controls, innovative mechanics, beautiful visuals, and a good frame rate. Plus it's bastard hard when you're ten years old.
That’s fair. It’s a really good game. It’s only now, looking back with jaded, adult eyes that we notice the faults in the conversion. Thanks for watching, Mr Goat! Have a boingy new year!
SUPERB SOFTWARE GAMES (I can't get over that phrasing). You are right, though. Bomb Jack was lovely. One of the many ST games that inspired doodles in the back of my school exercise books.
Excellent video as usual. Regarding Predator missing in Germany, it's possibly a violence issue. Germany has always been very tough with violent games about guns, war and violence.
Haha, that story about the end of Double Dragon. I wouldn't have let him win either XD I felt your pain in trying to draw the lines here. If anyone asks me for my favourite anything or to rank things I end up in an infinite loop of overthinking. Happy new year Marc!
Happy New Year Jim! Yes, it was a little agonising at times. You almost need to place everything first and then have another pass to make sure everything is in the right place. I don’t think that would make for the best video though! :D
Very nice. When I got my second hand ST for Christmas all those years ago, it came with many but not all of these disks (i.e. identifiable by having the same combinations of games on the disks) but strangely they had handwritten labels. Going back to your seminal top 50 videos for a moment, the appearance of Black Lamp was a bigger reminder than anything of the subjectivity of the exercise. I really like it and tier B here is well merited, but being voted in the top 50 ST games of all time is unbelievable. Like you I was making the jump from the CPC and personally I think presentation was particularly important at this crucial time, I remember staring open-mouthed at the 16-bit screenshots of PacMania on adverts in Amstrad Action. It just looked like an arcade machine, which was the embodiment of that 16-bit jump. So for me, that would get moved up at least a tier, and perhaps Hang On too. Outrun would get moved down, into the lowest abyss your chart can muster. Great video.
Yes! These games were part of many ST job lots I won on eBay before prices got ridiculous. I’m sorry to be the barer of bad news, but it sounds like your versions may have been illegitimate! :D I’ve heard other people saying that there wasn’t any copy protection on these disks, so I’m not surprised! I was surprised by Black Lamp’s appearance in the top 50 too, so I’ve been trying to reevaluate my own opinion of that game. It’s by no means a favourite, but I can now see its appeal after giving it a bit more of a try. You are so right about presentation, coming from the Amstrad CPC, these games were like magic to my young eyes. I remember playing The Real Ghostbusters at a friend’s house and thinking it was amazing, and that game is hot garbage! :D Happy New Year WB!
Great video my friend. Lots of memories playing this games. In my case I jumped directly fom a ZX Spectum 8 bits to the wonderful Atari ST, and the Power Pack was my 1st expercience. I can’t describe what I felt that afternoon when we brought it at home with my friends and we started testing that 20 games, but I still remember every exciting moment running each new game, we couldn’t believe it! A new world was opened for us, and we were about 13 years old... I spent thousands of hours with power pack, specially playing Bomb Jack, I think it’s the best and should be on top (not with Gauntlet 2, never liked this game). Oh, and let me suggest you to give another chance to Pac Mania, it’s a funny game, I think that this one and R-type deserve a higher position.
Thanks for the kind words, Joan! I had the ‘first ST’ experience 3 times! Once when my uncle bought his Power Pack ST, then when my best mate bought his STE and then when I got my ST for Christmas! I can still feel that excitement to this day :D I’m with you on Bomb Jack... I loved it too, but I’ve since played the arcade version and it is utter perfection, so going back to the ST version doesn’t quite feel the same now. A couple of people have suggested I give Pac-Mania a proper run for its money, so I might be doing that soon. Happy New Year!
It was very quiet and relaxing thanks to the restrictions which brings both good and bad. Now we are just wondering what's going to happen in the new year! Thanks for the kind words, Steve. Have a happy new year!
Nice to see you again! POWERPACKS, ftw! I had a chuckle when you mentioned Music Maker - I never really understood what I was doing, but I loved it! Double Dragon and Gauntlet were my top faves (I think because they were my fave arcade games) , but used to play Blacklamp because it had a really nice vibe :) Bombjack used to stress me out hehe, same with Bombuzal. Eliminator had really good music and was super addictivbe! Nebulus wins for quirky cuteness ^_^
Thanks for the kind words, Laura! I realised Music Maker and the like definitely provided a bit of relief when you needed a little downtime from the gaming, that’s for sure. I shouldn’t knock it, because it was probably a lot of people’s first experience with a musical stave and a great way to learn what all the notation means. I did that much later when I got hold of a piece of software called Quartet. It was a very similar interface, but used samples so the final piece of music sounded much better. I spent hours and hours transcribing Beatles tunes and that formed my early music education! :D
@@thejoyofsticks Quartet! YES! I think ST Format released a demo of that on one of their floppies, so I prob messed about with it at some point ^_^ Hope you are well?
A really cool video that mate. I got this pack with my ST as a kid and loved it. So many great games, and coming from teh ZX Spectrum to this was a dream for me! I think most of these games would score a lot higher if compared to all other games available on the ST as most of them are playable and fun. Also, like you, there is a lot of nostalgia there for me so they fill me with joy. I used to love Predator for example, but yeah playing it now it feels so slow. Im sure my order would be slightly different on them all but I think you did a great job ordering them mate. Watching this bought back tons of memories, cheers!
Yes! It was difficult to decide how to judge these games. Should I judge them in comparison to the other games in the pack? Should I compare them against the ST games library as a whole? Should I judge them as I saw them when I encountered them back then, or should I judge them on how they stand up now? Who'd have thought that a simple tier list could inspire so much deep thinking? :D Most importantly, it's helping people relive some cool memories, so I'm happy!
A fantastic half hour plus of ST fun. You cover the dear old machine the best and that half hour went by with the blink of an eye. If you had trebled the duration I’d still have wanted more! It’s hard to dispute your rankings of the games here, Bombjack for me is the most played of the pack, the ST conversion is absolutely spot on. For some reason I have a power pack disk with- Beyond the Ice Palace and Thundercats! I’m guessing that they must have been through a different pack!
Got mine from Evesham Micros in Birmingham. I upgraded from a ZX Spectrum and was blown away by the sheer quality of the games. My favourites were Xenon, Nebulus, Eliminator and Starray.
We got ours from Evesham Micros too! That shop is legendary in my eyes. I used to scour their ST Format ads with hungry eyes: “Ooh, a second floppy drive... Aah, a hard disk... Gosh, a colour monitor!” :D
As "dodgy" as they were the menu disks of the Atari ST were a big part of the ST - a very big part. Most of my great memories of the ST were from Pompey Pirates, Medway Boys, Automation etc. Maybe a video or two on those great menu disks and your favourites might be an idea?
That's a great idea, Mark! I'm not sure how that would look, though. Maybe a look at some of my favourite intros from my favourite groups? Or one video concentrating on one particular menu that I played a lot? Some food for thought there!
@@thejoyofsticks how about having some RNG thing pick a menu number from a particular pirate group and you play the games on that disk - could be fun times going in blind on some of the real obscure things. That being said I apologise in advance if you end up plodding through some digital stodge like Flunky, Brattacas or that Garfield game.
Perfect timing ,just after the tier 4 news ,along comes our favourite ST channel to ease the blow lol ..I had the power pack with mine ..I'll watch first then vote
yep. the ST we got (second-hand from some guy who i think was a scener moving to the amiga) came with the POWER PACK! ELIMINATOR, and the arcade conversions of DOUBLE DRAGON, BOMBJACK & PACMANIA really made an impression on me. also, WEIRD DREAMS, which was appearing on MOTORMOUTH, saturday mornings!
Nice! Weird Dreams was a bit strange, wasn't it? I've never got very far with that one. Those phone-in games on TV were really strange as well. LEFT! LEFT! JUMP! Such a bizarre way to play a game.
The Power Pack was my experience with the ST as my cousins had it, very fond memories of that. Really good selection of games with only a few obvious cIangers. Don't think they even bought any other games, the entirety of the rest of their collection was menu disks! This did proved a godsend later when ST titles from the shops - just nip over and copy a few games when the opportunity arose.
@@thejoyofsticks Even worse, those Power Pack disks (and the ones in the Discovery Pack, which I had) had no copy protection whatsoever, there was nothing to stop you literally just dragging the files to another disk!
To be honest, I am so hyped about people releasing games for the ST after all these years that I would find it very difficult not to rate every single one at S tier! :D
@@thejoyofsticks I dont have a problem with an honest ranking. I myself would give for example Laserball a B or C at best: Nice game idea, but weak technical execution. In my opinion, talking about pros and cons of NEW games at first means: New games are talked about!!! ;) - anyway these games get relatively little exposure being marked as "hemobrew". After all, these are just "new games" for our ATARIs. There are better games and weaker ones... and genres some might like and others may not like them. Setting these titles into perspective from a gamers perspective is always a plus! ;) (btw: I think a lot of titles back in the day started as "homebew"... they just found a publisher)
Bob's list: S - Gauntlet II A - Xenon, Nebulus, Eliminator, R-Type, Starglider B - Pacmania, Bombjack, Bombuzal, Star Goose, Starray, Black Lamp, Super Hang-On C -Afterburner, Outlander, Double Dragon, Predator, Space Harrier F - Outrun, Super Huey
In France we had a slightly different power pack, at least with my STE. I never found the french list but for instance we got ikari warrior. The only failing floppy in my pack was gautlet 2, glad to see that i missed the best game 😄
Quite a few people have mentioned a 'different' Power Pack. It would be interesting to see all the different variations and compare which ones were better or worse. Ikari Warriors is certainly a good addition. A nice little arcade shooter that one! So sorry about your gauntlet 2, you definitely missed out on that one. :(
@@thejoyofsticks I never really found any info about the variation I had in France. A few games was replaced by others. For instance r-type was also missing but replaced by blood money, and no Outrun but replaced by Buggy boy. Anyway, still in love with the ST, lot of friends of mine owned it back in the days so pretty popular in France.
That’s the overriding memory for me with these games, the excitement of making that step up to the world of 16-bits! :D Even Afterburner was breathtaking compared to our Amstrad CPC games.
There is something really special about JMP’s games. I love the way they pushed the ST at this early stage. It was like a TEX demo but with great gameplay!
These videos (you doing tiermaker) are really great. I never had an ST (I had an Amiga) but your videos are making me wish I did :) wrt the rankings I would have put double dragon lower just based on your description it seemed like an F game but since it’s beatable and playable and you have good memories it gets bumped up one. I’ve never played it but that’s what I was thinking. I love Pac-Mania even though your points are valid about not being able to see the whole play field, so I would have made that an a or maybe as low as b. I also liked how you pointed out some games that I’ve never heard of. Now really want to play star goose! Also I didn’t know that two of my favorite Amiga games (starglider 2 and no second prize) were also on ST (and that they were good) and that makes me want to see a comparison and get back into those two games. Thanks!
Thanks for the feedback, John! I’m glad you are enjoying them. (and if I can capture an Amiga fan, I must be doing something right!) Yes, I know Double Dragon is rubbish, but there’s just something about it. It’s like a guilty pleasure or something. Like when you go out for hamburgers even if you have steak at home. Star Goose is definitely worth a go, if only because of how innovative and unique it is. I worry about you coming over to ST versions of games though! Often, especially later on, we got a much inferior version. That being said, the 3D games like NSP and Starglider 2 hold up well thanks to the ST having a slightly faster CPU.
@@thejoyofsticks you’re welcome! There’s nothing wrong with guilty pleasures :). Don’t worry about me I’ve never played Atari ST but I’ll be prepared. For me playing games on old computers is like traveling back in time and is endlessly interesting. I played Gauntlet on C64 all day today lol. Cheers and thanks again!
This was brutal to watch for me as I realized that apart from Xenon, (which I was not a huge fan of - too hard) , none of the games I had back in the day are above Tier B. The only one I think you're being unfair to - and you know it because you hesitated - is PacMania. I understand your reasons as you don't like the concept of not seeing the whole maze. For me the Isometric 3D view gave life to Pac Man and made it so much more immersive, that I loved the Arcade, and played the conversion to death. And the conversion is actually very good in my opinion. Let me explain :) Despite have a smaller playing field as the Amiga and STe versions, it actually is closer to the arcade original screen ratio. To top it off, the game runs much much faster than the aforementioned versions. To the point where I played a small competition back in the day at an event that had only Amigas, and completely crushed it because that version is way slower and too easy compared to the ST version. For all these reasons, I rebuke your classification of PacMania! For the rest, as painful as it is to understand I've playing mostly playing stinkers back in the day, these were my stinkers and I liked them (yes, even After Burner!), even though now I'm usually playing the arcade originals, which means I've moved on... Thanks again for this last contribution of the year!
It’s so great to hear your rebuttal! Thank you for presenting the case for Pac-Mania so eloquently. When I hear such a cogent argument it makes me want to go back to play it again and see if I can come to terms with it a little better. Fascinating to hear your comparison to the Amiga version too. And just because I rated the others low, doesn’t mean they are stinkers! The only games I would call stinkers here are in F, all the others have their merits and are worth playing for various reasons.
We got the Power Pack with our STE, still remember the evening we got it, trying game after game, being wowed over and over. Well, maybe not by Super Huey 😀. Generally agree with your tier list, though Black Lamp is the game I enjoy playing the most these days. Know what you mean with Double Dragon, it's a clumsy port but still a fun game. I've played the arcade version since then and didn't like it nearly as much.
Thanks for the brilliant idea, kablurg! I had tons of fun filming this one. I knew there would be some Black Lamp fans out there unhappy with my placement! :D Double Dragon is utterly bizarre, and a great case for gestalt theory. Every component is bad and yet the game is still fun. Go figure.
Another great video and I think I can agree with a lot of your list. As with everything in life its subjective, but if I think back to my 10 year old self I can honestly say, outside of Super Huey where I had zero idea wtf I was doing, I loved all the games on the power pack. Of course these days I can look back and think what was trash, like the things that we recognise now like slowdown/low fps, I didn't even register that back then or know it was a thing. I just thought thats the way it was and never questioned it. As such here is my 10 y.o. self's list in order of how much I actually played the games/loved them, which on my list just means an F game i didnt play a lot...: S - Gauntlet 2 (indescribable amount of hours in that game), Nebulus and Bombjack (these were the family games which we tried to beat each other in), Xenon, Bombjack, BlackLamp A - Double Dragon (played this so much knew exactly where the enemies would spawn, and could clock it without losing a life), Eliminator (great hard game, eventually finished it), StarGoose, Starray, R-Type (another super hard game, still never got past the final level), Predator ( I loved this game...took me about a year to realise you could drop your gun and pick up guns off dead bodies though...never got through it either) B - Space Harrier (actually loved this game, used to beat it all the time), Overlander (another game I loved, I think becuase I loved Mad Max. Beat it heaps of times), Outrun (to be honest I never noticed the low fps....I had never played it in the arcade so probably had no reference) C - Starglider (loved the space flying, but had no idea what I was supposed to do), SuperHangOn, Afterburner (again didnt think it was THAT bad...) F - Bombuzal (Kept giving it a go but didnt really grab me...perhaps to cerebral for my 10yo brain!), Pacmania (probably the least played game of the power pack), SuperHuey (yeah...again no f'in idea what I was doing. It did teach me what pitch and yaw meant though! Would get up to other helicopters and then get shot down..)
That’s very much how I felt back in the day too. Coming from the Amstrad CPC (a more than capable computer) to the 16-bit marvel that was the ST was amazing, and all of these games (even the ones I know rate at F) were a real treat for us. With the notable exception of Super Huey of course! :D I even enjoyed playing OutRun a lot, but I think it was mainly the load times that prevented me from playing it more. I love how many games you have in S! Got to love that 10 year old positivity! :) And fascinating that despite that positivity, you still have Pac Mania in F. I wonder why that is? Thanks for the detailed response here, that was great to read.
Bomb jack Xenon Double dragon R type Super hang on Theres my top 5 ...or what I played the most from the power pack ..also I did love predator lol ..just fitted well for my wild imagination..have a great tier 4 happy new year mate ..thanks for the great video in 2020
People like to deride the ST as not as good as the Amiga, but compared to its other competition in the mid-80s, it was way cheaper than either the Macintosh or IBM PC, and had much better graphics and sound than either, it had a more powerful processor than the Tandy 1000, and had a GUI in ROM that could support a large amount of business and creativity software, which was easier to use than MS-DOS or primitive versions of Windows. It would have held its own if the Microsoft/Intel monopoly hadn't shoved it and the Amiga and the Archimedes and all other competitors off the market.
Ohh, man. This pack was my first introduction to this generation's games, so many memories. R-Type and Xenon are my S tier games. Maybe I'm biased because I actually completed them. Also slightly sad because some genres became bricked pretty easily. I don't know wether it was because of how they were packed data wise, or because of the fragility of floppy disks. Hang-on, Bomb Jack, Bomboozle and Outrun wouldn't load after a few plays, and Predator had corrupt graphics (for the predator, no less).
Overlander looked great and had fantastic music but it was just so damn hard. I could never finish the first stage as a kid, and even now I still can't!
Those booby traps (are they gun turrets? Machine gun placements?) on the side of the road are so hard to avoid. It's a shame that they decided to up the difficulty in this frustrating way. The gameplay loop could have been so much more rewarding. Start with an easy mission that gives you little cash, work your way up etc. But I guess that's hindsight thanks to seeing how video games have developed more recently!
@@thejoyofsticks Overlander is all about the speed your going to avoid the obstacles, with the barriers you need to slow down to a crawl (like about quarter of the speed bar max), with the machine guns and cars on side of the road, notch the speed down from full to about four or five bars from the top. You'll get killed a lot less. Bikes and the trucks should be at full speed firing as fast as possible. Always go for the more money options at the start and don't waste cash on fire bombs or nukes. Get the turbo conversion and battering rams (for the nasty suprise road barriers that appear before you can slow down) on level one, then level two get the leanburner conversion and super brakes (and battering rams again). If you can get past level 2 which I think is the worst one, you should be fine. By the end you should have all the permanant upgrades, maxed out battering rams and bullet proofing and can finally think about buying some nukes. It really isn't that hard (you finished Outrun, I'd say this is easier once you get the speeds right).
Predator was probably only half-finished, especially as you can't really beat the game on the ST from what I understand, but I really enjoyed what few levels were in there. Not great as a shooter but quite atmospheric with all those bodies you come across and those predator attacks, and let's not forget that funky intro music. Probably deserves the F-rating as it was incomplete, but I really liked it.
You are right, and maybe deserves to be saved from F for at least capturing that atmosphere from the movies (so many movie licenses don't). But it is a stinker of a game. I stand by it: run 'n' gun shooters are about running and shooting, and that game does both /very/ badly. I didn't even know about the incomplete thing!
@@thejoyofsticks just found a video showing it is in fact possible to kill the predator and get a proper ending, no idea how you're supposed to figure that out though!
Gauntlet II is definitely the best of the bunch. I'd put Bombuzal in Tier B, Super Hang-On in Tier A, Space Harrier in Tier B, and relegate Double Dragon & OutRun to Tier F. I haven't played Super Huey, but I can tell I'd really dislike it. The weak port of After Burner is the game I'd least like to play in this collection. Another really enjoyable Tier List video. Thanks, Marc 😎
I thought I replied to this, but it has disappeared! If this is a repeat, please ignore... Gauntlet 2 is a stone cold classic. A great arcade game and a great conversion too. I played it for countless hours with my best mate just exploring deeper and deeper, finding out new things about the game as we went. So much fun. I know I was taking liberties with Double Dragon, every rational synapse in my brain knows it's garbage, and yet I love it so! You are right to body swerve Afterburner too, after playing the arcade and the great Megadrive version, this is baffling. Thanks for the kind words, buddy. Happy new year!
@@thejoyofsticks Yeah, Gauntlet 2 was really fun with another player -- but I also enjoyed fighting my way through the dungeons on my own. The Mega Drive version(known as Gauntlet IV in the UK) has really nice music to complement the action. I remember buying Double Dragon for £5 from a bargain bin -- and I sill felt totally ripped off. 😩 At least you and your cousin got some fun out of it. The only good thing I could say about it, is it's better than the Atari 2600 version. 😃 It's a shame that so many Sega sprite scaling coin-ops were ported so badly to the ST & Amiga. Super Hang-On was pretty special though, so I played it quite a bit. Happy New Year! 🙂
@@kingstonlj I keep meaning to give Gauntlet 4 a go! I have a Megadrive, but I imagine that it’s quite an expensive game to get a hold of now. Maybe I should get it ready for a post-Corona gaming celebration for me and my friend who I used to play Gauntlet (ZX Spectrum) and Gauntlet 2 (Atari ST) with. Yes, £5 for Double Dragon probably is a bit much :D
@@thejoyofsticks I had a look on Ebay and you can get a cart-only for around £10; a boxed copy is around £20-30. Retro gaming stuff is so expensive these days; you could have got a boxed copy of Gaunlet IV for £5-10 10 years ago. I'm glad I collected all my retro gear between 2004-2010. I buy a few retro bits and bobs these days when I'm bored. 😃 If you do end up grabbing a copy of Gauntlet IV, please make a video telling people what you think of it. Happy New Year. 😎
I have to add as well that I enjoyed outrun on the ST it was not in my pack and I remeber going to town to buy it.. It could have been better but I liked it
Even as I'm criticising some of these games, there is a little voice in the back of my mind saying "this was someone's favourite game as a child and you are pissing all over it, for shame!" Sorry, dude. I guess it's like Double Dragon for me. I know that game is not good, certainly not a good conversion, but the memories and fun I had with it as a kid override all of that rational critique! :D
I really enjoyed this your second tier video. I hope you stick with the format, it's got lots of legs. I got a bit confused though and did some googling and I found out that while I thought I had the power pack, I'm now not sure I did, because the games I remember from it are partly from the earlier "super pack" and partly from the power pack. I wonder if there was another large pack like this in the UK. I'm 100% certain mine had return to genesis in it, but it didn't have quite a few of the other super pack in it.
It does seem that there were a lot of different packs out there. A lot of people have commented along the lines of "my pack had some of those games, but with XXX removed and XXX added." Curious! I do remember seeing a Power Pack style disk with Return to Genesis on, so I'm pretty certain you are right. Thanks for the kind words!
@@thejoyofsticks Perhaps you could do a part 2 where you take this one as a starting point with the games already on, and add in the rest of the pack in games from across the packs
Thank you Costas! I've been so busy that ST videos have been put on the back burner, but lovely comments like this certainly inspire me to get back at it.
That was recommended to me to play during a live stream a while ago and I gave it a go. It was really cool! I like the concept and the presentation, and the gameplay was interesting and unique. It’s nice that you can still find little gems on the ST after all these years.
Hey mate, just watched this video (took my time lol, I used to post comments from another account "theretrogamesnews"). Been following you for probably 8 to 10 years now. Anyway, lives this video and I agree with your scoring. I k ow what you mean about Double Dragon...I had it on the 64 and it was utter sh1te, but....it was Double Dragon!! I was so blown away by the arcade version and so have find memories. Hey...can I put in a request for you to do another magazine flick through video? If not, anything you do is great. Anyway, all the best and (soon to be) happy we year.
I'd love to do another magazine flickthrough. I haven't recorded anything for ages now and I'll be back at work soon so it's now or never! Any particular magazine you think would be interesting? Happy New Year, Phil! I hope it's a good one for you.
Hey bud.Just wanted to ask if you are okay?.No video for a year.Miss you and the channel.Take care and hopefully you give us an update from one of your loyal viewers 😉👍👍👍
Hey! I'm absolutely fine, thanks for asking. Very busy with work and other commitments and lacking opportunities to record stuff for the channel, so I just kind of let it slip. I do miss it, so I might return to it soon. Thanks for your kind words! How are things with you?
Some classic games there amongst them. I can't really argue with your list much although for myself I would have R-Type higher and Outrun lower. I do agree with you though that whilst the pack was great for those buying the ST it must have been maddening for the various games companies as with a pack like that you wouldn't want or need to buy a new game for a very long time.
Yes! What a great introduction to ST gaming. I wonder if I would have got so obsessed about the ST without those early days at my Uncle’s house. I hear what you are saying about Outrun, it was such a disappointment. I can’t remember if I said this in the video, but I spent the day before playing each game to capture footage and remind myself of the games and I managed to play through the whole of Outrun and was surprised that I quite enjoyed it, so I think that’s what bumped it up a rank.
I must have got a later discovery pack without nearly as many games. Carrier Command, Bombjack, Space Harrier and Outrun If memory serves, Outrun being the only stinker.
I didn’t realise there were other Power Packs. I assumed ours was the one and only. I know there was a Discovery Pack. I know you got less games, but you did get Carrier Command, which would have sailed (see what I did there) into S tier easily. Great game.
@@thejoyofsticks your probably right and that's probably the one I had then! Yeah, Carrier Command was great and it didn't run like a sideshow like a lot of 3D games did. It also came with Stos and Neochrome as well which I probably put more time into those than all the games combined.
Outrun was served dreadfully home ports, there was just no way computers of the time could match the speed of the arcade. Even in that context though the ST version is utterly appalling. I'd completely forgotten about the ridiculous loading times as well, Space Harrier was the other one that took forever to load, although at least that was playable compared to Outrun. I think it was because for some reason the usual fast loading routine wasn't put on these disks, so you'd have to sit there listening to it chug through every byte at the slowest speed imaginable.
Indeed. I think it was only the Sega consoles that got half decent versions, is that right? I remember even the ZX Spectrum version of OutRun was better than the ST version!
🤣I'd just played it moments before filming and managed to get through to the finish line. Quite enjoyed it. Probably the first time I ever have enjoyed playing it. That's the only thing that saved it from F!
@@thejoyofsticks Beyond The Ice Palace, Thrust, Thundercats, Black lamp, quadralien, summer olympiad, Eddie Edwards supper ski, star quake, xenon, ikari warriors, wizball I think that's it but I bet I remeber some more after I finish haha
@@crustycobb8286 That's a pretty nice pack of games too. I loved Eddie Edwards Super Ski! Haven't played it for ages... right, I'm off to give it a go. Thanks for the reminder!
Without yet watching it, being very familiar with the Power Pack (I still remember the huge plastic casing it came in) I'd go... S - Gauntlet 2 & Pac-Mania A - Bomb Jack / Double Dragon / Xenon / Nebulus / Star Goose / Bombuzal B - R-type / Space Harrier / Super Hang On / Stay Ray / Predator / Star Glider C - Afterburner / Black Lamp / Eliminator / Overlander / Super Huey - Black Lamp would've been higher, but without the instruction manual the game is more than a little bit of a mystery. F - Outrun (only here because I felt compelled to pick one F and, let's be honest, this wasn't a great port)
PacMania at S! Are you sure?! 🤣I'd love to hear your reasoning behind that (you must have been so annoyed at that part of the video... 😬 You seem to like Predator a lot more than me too. It's great to be reminded just how subjective things like this are... I genuinely thought no-one could like that game (except its mother, maybe) but you are the second person to leap to its defense.
@@thejoyofsticks Similar to a lot of your choices, I have to go off nostalgia value. More than anything, what sticks in my mind for Pac-Mania was the cutscenes in between levels. I think this was perhaps the first game I played that had actual cutscenes. Yes, the gameplay could be amazingly frustrating and particularly on the more complex levels with different sections as you attempted to hunt down those last 3-4 pellets. For me though, those cutscenes just demanded I play one more level to see what was next :D Predator... Well, as 6-7-year-old Mike, it scared me more than the R-type loading screen. And, again, strictly for nostalgia I'm probably putting it higher than it deserves.
@@PigeonPlucker It’s so funny, but you are so right. Sometimes it was those little details that would win you over. We must sound like primitive savages to younger gamers when we say things like “it was great because it had cut-scenes.” :D For me, Dogs of War comes to mind. The game itself was pretty average (and that’s being very generous) but we loved it because of the stupidly detailed shop at the beginning of each stage.
I'm good, thanks for asking! Work is ridiculous at the moment, so not much time for extra curricular activities! 😅 I'm writing some reviews for a magazine, so keep an eye out for that. How's the retro veganism world looking?
@@thejoyofsticks all good here part from the covid situation ,blues are winning as we speak so maybe that part of our lives is looking good lol ..played pit fighter the other day ,everytime I go into town it inspires me to want to play pit fighter ..especially round the carpark by the old toys r us ..probably cus its still dodgy round there ..look forward to more content when u get 5 min ..stay safe mate
Overlander's simple backgrounds make me feel like it could be adapted into a much more fun combat portion for this obscure IBM PC game called Flightmare. Flightmare was an incredible game but also incredibly hard. The problem is the weird 3D view where you see the side and top view. A third person perspective view would make it a LOT more fun. Flightmare review and explanation: czcams.com/video/16e3eXWh4MQ/video.html
Flightmare looks so cool! I love the CGA palette! The dual perspective view(s) in that game are actually pretty innovative and I applaud them for trying something new, but still... there's a reason why that type of gameplay wasn't adopted by other games. I'm not sure PCs of the time would have been able to produce Overlander style graphics, but I see what you mean, it would be a better way to present the action sections.
@@thejoyofsticks Oh, I wasn't thinking in terms of designing for the original IBM PC. I was thinking an ST game inspired by the IBM PC game. It could have been a 1985 ST game. But even if we're talking 1984, there are other 8-bit computers which could have done smooth raster road motion (Atari 8-bit and C64 in particular).
@@IsaacKuo Oh, I see! Yes, but then I think a low-poly remake might fit a game like this. Stick to the CGA palette (Mmm... cyan and magenta) but use chunky little 3D models and PC speaker style sound effects. That would be cool.
@@thejoyofsticks I have vague memories of an ST/Amiga motorcycle racing game that used filled polygon graphics ... can't remember what it was now, though ...
I have an atari st disk that I hope is still good. I want what's on it. Lots of people might want a copy of what's on it. But I don't have a working computer that can read it. If you were me, what would you do? Is there someone I might send it to that can get an image from it? Is there a way to make it read on my computer?
Built in PC floppy drives can read most ST disks, and USB drives can read standard format floppies iirc. There is a program called floimg by Ppera that works well with internal floppy drives. So I would say the best way is to get hold of an old Windows PC that has a floppy drive. You could get in touch with software preservers like Marko Latvanen (@maraka77i on twitter) and I'm sure he would be happy to help. I'd do it myself, but my ST has no floppy drive at the moment.
Hi, I'm happy to help :) I've got a few hardware devices which can read many disk formats. If it's ok for you to send the disk over to Finland I'll make a dump for you and send the disk back. You can DM me for example via Twitter. Thanks, Marko
the power pack that came with my STe (1989 i think) had super huey, mouse trap and buggy boy on disk F. i would have much rather had overlander and starglider!
I didn’t realise there were Power Packs with different games. I assumed the one my uncle got was THE Power Pack. Buggy Boy was a great, great game. I think you got a good deal!
@@thejoyofsticks I haven't found a lot of info on different versions of the power pack ( obvs. there was the discovery pack and other countries had something called the super pack) . There was an old ebay listing for the instruction card for the "f" disk that I had. If it wasn't for that and the fact that I still have the disk I might think I imagined it 😁
Finally got round to watching this after missing it when it came out due to a move. Lol will have to agree to disagree with some of those, Bombuzal was horrible for me, and Black Lamp wasn't great either. Outrun would be the only one in bottom tier, Super Huey looks horrible but isn't a bad game, I'm seemingly immune to the frame rate issues that bug other people so Afterburner wasn't so painful for me either, its not a great conversion but could have been worse. Space Harrier and Overlander would have been in the A grade on my list, while Xenon would have been a B for me - Xenon 2 for the win I'm afraid ;) I actually think Double Dragon is a good game for the exactly reasons you mention. It is cheesy, but a lot of fun, which is the main thing. The sequels looked better but lost the fun, sadly. I thought R-type was a fairly good conversion until that mothership on the second level, with it's terrible jumpy movement. Agree on Nebulous, Eliminator and Star Goose, but Bomb Jack, may be a little lower (it could be better I think the ST could have got it almost arcade perfect). The worst thing about the power pack is that if you missed it, you ended up with the Discovery pack, which had about four games, my sister ended up with this version, although the ten star games pack from Silica saved it. I didn't get either, my ST had no games with it other than some throw ins from Evesham Micros, but they were Space Harrier, Overlander, Star Wars, Bubble Bobble and a Time Bandit demo, I got lucky as these are still some of my favs. I did get a CPM Emulator disk as well though (yawn!) :) How about the Super or the Summer Pack next (the Power Pack's predecessors), now they had some weird stuff in..
It's great to hear these opposing opinions, especially as far as Super Huey is concerned. And you are not alone in being immune to the frame rate issue! Lots of people have said it was never an issue for them back in the day, and it's really difficult to objectively critique these games now when we are used to at least 30fps and often 60fps as standard in our games. You are so right about fun being the main thing. That is, after all, why we play these games in the first place. Every time I play that game, I get a sloppy smile on my face that just won't go away. Your pack-in from Evesham Micros sounds great! Not as many games as the Power Pack, granted, but they are all very playable and lots of fun. I would personally have traded lots of our Power Pack for Bubble Bobble alone. What a game!
@@thejoyofsticks I do wonder with Double Dragon whether it was the sound samples that elevate it from bad to camp classic (the Flash Gordon of Atari ST games?). I can imagine without them it might have been as bland as the sequel. That death sample that sounds like someone throwing up is hilarious, and the weird noise those giants (Abobu or something wasn't it?) was also bizarre and yet totally right.
@@Jayfive276 Yes! I had a lot of trouble getting 3 or 4 of these games to work on my STe. You wouldn't be happy if you'd spent a lot to upgrade back then, would you? Thankfully DBug and Klapauzius came to my rescue with some great patched versions.
I can't say I agree with you on some of the games, :) Double Dragon, obviously not arcade perfect, but for me one of a handful of side-scrolling beat 'em ups on the ST worth playing. I liked the ST version so much that I soon stopped playing the arcade version (and save money) to focus on on the ST version. Gauntlet, for me it's a garbage of a game. I can't stress that enough. I know I am in the minority over this. I hated the arcade, I hate the ST version. Utter POS. Nebulus, I can't stand it. Technically awesome, I don't like it. Overlander, for me it's like a cousin of Fire & Forget. :) I loved Predator. One of the games I played a lot with friends. Is it objectively great? No. But I can't say it's a bad game. For me it's a good 8-bit game on the ST. Space Harrier, never been a fan of the game, but I always thought the port was good. Especially with the mouse control. Staaarglideeeer from Raiiinbiiird raiiinbiiiird nothing lower than S. Xenon, one more game I just can't really play and have fun with it. For the other games I either agree with you completely or not enough to mention it. I did not get the power pack. There were no power packs when I got my first ST in 87. Vanilla packaging with zero games. Which pissed me off when the first power pack arrived. No matter what, thanks for an another good video man. Good way to end a shit year. Happy new year buddy and to all ST fans out there.
I’d be disappointed if you did agree, Trusty! Thanks for adding your 2 cents worth to these. I can understand your opinion on lots of these, but Gauntlet 2?! That’s hard to swallow! :D Zero games packed in with your ST? Ouch! What did you do when first received your ST? Played around in GEM? XD Thanks for your kind words, your continued support, and a happy new year to you too! Make it a great one.
@@thejoyofsticks Exactly that, GEM and basic. I didn't get my first game on the ST for some days, or perhaps more than a week later. Thankfully it was a good one, Starglider.
Want to know something a bit weird? Bombuzal (aka Kablooie) was a launch title for the Super Famicom in November 1990. What an odd choice! The others were F-Zero, Super Mario World, ActRaiser, Populous (another slightly odd one!), Final Fight, Gradius 3, Pilotwings and SD The Great Battle.
I had no idea! I’ve never seen a Super Nintendo version (was it released over here?). That’s a pretty handy launch library! F-Zero, Super Mario World, Gradius and Pilotwings and I think I’d be sorted for months of gaming. That does make me wonder... which console/computer had the best launch lineup?
@@thejoyofsticks Not released in PAL territories as far as I know. Maybe they saw sense and realised anyone who wanted to play it already had done on the home computers. It took nearly three years to get a US release!
Think I wrote it in your BB tier video, but Xenon for me is a low A if not B. It simply has no fluid gameplay and you struggle so often in situations where you should have morphed into the other vehicle! Technically it's brilliant though. I bought Predator the day it came out, so it must be good, pffft! On the same day I also got the cracked, trained version!😂 flic.kr/p/26pkQ3D
Oh yes, my S rank here doesn’t mean perfect by any means, but for me it is amongst the best on offer in the Power Pack by quite some margin. Your criticism is absolutely valid and I often wonder if the arcade version would be better to play as it looks pretty much identicle (longer stages, maybe?) but might eradicate the wiggle to change nonsense with an extra button. Thanks for sharing your Predator! I have one of those too, as I decided to buy original games of all the games that were significant to me, and these Power Pack games were hugely significant as some of the first games I ever played on ST. Happy New Year, TPau65!
I just saw another of those awesome remakes that people do from time to time, and this one has a real arcade feel and look to it. A WEC Le Mans racing game - Atari STE 50fps racing game WIP czcams.com/video/j7i6CrWSf6M/video.html
@@thejoyofsticks The coder says the CZcams video makes it look rubbish, and that its way smoother! Definitely sounds like he will be finishing it, as he says he has got good at creating lots of good fast running blocks of code for everything. Apparently he worked on the Lotus game a few years back, and look how awesome that is.
@@EgoShredder Well, if you record it at 50fps, encode it at 50fps in the video editor, upload it to CZcams at 50fps and then convince everybody watching to switch their monitors to 50hz, CZcams footage of ST games looks mint. 😂 Yes, it's great that such a talent is still working on the ST. I wonder if he would consider a 25fps version with more scenery and undulating hills?
great games but outrun was terrible. good to see Xenon at the top, brilliant game and music.
Před 3 lety
I really enjoyed listening to your ratings, but I don't agree 😉 Super hang on and Nebulus are solid B:s, the rest is C or lower, most are F. Some are well executed, like Xenon, but just boring games.
Most of these games are really crap actually. There are some very good games on the ST like Turrican 2, Speedball 2, Maupiti Island, Vroom. These games here are really lame...
I don't know if you'll read this, but it would be great to see a video from you about that enhanced Lotus Esprit Turbo Challenge port on Atari STe recently made
Miss your wholesome presence. Hope to see you back making great ST content soon.
Agree. Hope all is well and there's more to come.
Hope he's ok! I didn't realise his last video was actually 3 years old!
I hope he comes back and makes more videos as I miss his take on one of my all time favourite computers!
Thanks for the kind words, everyone! All is well. Just took a bit of a break. Keep you eyes peeled around 5 tomorrow... 😉
Recently found your channel, I was a STFM owner back in the day. I just wanted to say, If there is any doubt in your mind about your ability to make quality videos, banish it from your mind! This channel is awesome, truly the best ST channel to be found on the internet. I hope you can make a comeback and maybe start a Patreon. I have only just finished watching your library and already you are sorely missed, and clearly I am not the only one feeling this way. :)
Thank you so much for your kind words, Adam! I really do miss making ST videos so I am really considering coming back to make some more. Lovely comments like yours certainly motivate me to do so.
@@thejoyofsticks why did you stop!?
@@laika9801 Just other commitments. I'm a teacher, husband and have two kids as well as other hobbies and interests.
@@thejoyofsticks know the feeling, glad all is well.
@@thejoyofsticks Oh man that would be awesome if you did, even if it were just a video a month, though I totally get why you took a step back. Still remember the Mists of Pandaria videos you started many moons ago! Have you had a chance to check out Dragonflight yet? It's pretty good.
Going straight from 8-bit computers like the BBC & Electron to the likes of Eliminator and Nebulous on the ST seemed mind-blowing at the time, both aged really well I think.
Yes! Even now they are really nice pieces of work. They are so solidly coded.
20 games that weren't pirated! Back in the day many computer gamers never reached such a number of legitimate copies of games (excluding compilations and maybe kixx/the hit squad budget issues and the likes), so having 20 games from the get-go was certainly a treat. Star Goose is interesting and to be honest I didn't know about it. Double Dragon is objectively very bad (and the coin-op isn't much better nowadays) but at the time we weren't bothered by super repetitive and frustrating gameplay as much as we would be today. You had Double Dragon, one of the most hyped games of the 80s, at home on your ST, it kind of looked the part, it kind of played the part..it was more than enough for loving it! And even bad games weren't so bad in co-op. I also had no idea that Eliminator and Nebulus were made by the same author, but it totally makes sense since they are technically on a very high level. I played the C64 version of these games and they are incredible with all sorts of programing tricks.
🤣Yes! Very few of our games back then were originals! We would occasionally rush out to get something we were super hyped about and couldn't wait for it to trickle down through the illegitimate trade routes. I remember rushing out to get Kick Off 2 and Sensible Soccer when those came out. The big, glossy boxes were like treasured possessions next to my box full of copied floppies! :D You are so right about Double Dragon. After playing the arcade, I think I was just delighted to have a version at home that I could play whenever I wanted to for free! The same thing happened with Golden Axe too. A less than stellar conversion (but so much better than DD) but I was smitten from the first play.
I'd put R-Type up one higher. I didn't have this software bundle, but a friend of mine had that game, and it was my first exposure to the series. Without comparing it to the cabinet version, it has solid controls, innovative mechanics, beautiful visuals, and a good frame rate. Plus it's bastard hard when you're ten years old.
That’s fair. It’s a really good game. It’s only now, looking back with jaded, adult eyes that we notice the faults in the conversion. Thanks for watching, Mr Goat! Have a boingy new year!
Bomb Jack is a great game. What a joy to have it packed in among 19 other games
SUPERB SOFTWARE GAMES (I can't get over that phrasing). You are right, though. Bomb Jack was lovely. One of the many ST games that inspired doodles in the back of my school exercise books.
Excellent video as usual. Regarding Predator missing in Germany, it's possibly a violence issue. Germany has always been very tough with violent games about guns, war and violence.
Yes, I thought I remembered reading about that somewhere. Thanks for the kind words! Happy new year!
Haha, that story about the end of Double Dragon. I wouldn't have let him win either XD
I felt your pain in trying to draw the lines here. If anyone asks me for my favourite anything or to rank things I end up in an infinite loop of overthinking.
Happy new year Marc!
Happy New Year Jim! Yes, it was a little agonising at times. You almost need to place everything first and then have another pass to make sure everything is in the right place. I don’t think that would make for the best video though! :D
Very nice. When I got my second hand ST for Christmas all those years ago, it came with many but not all of these disks (i.e. identifiable by having the same combinations of games on the disks) but strangely they had handwritten labels. Going back to your seminal top 50 videos for a moment, the appearance of Black Lamp was a bigger reminder than anything of the subjectivity of the exercise. I really like it and tier B here is well merited, but being voted in the top 50 ST games of all time is unbelievable.
Like you I was making the jump from the CPC and personally I think presentation was particularly important at this crucial time, I remember staring open-mouthed at the 16-bit screenshots of PacMania on adverts in Amstrad Action. It just looked like an arcade machine, which was the embodiment of that 16-bit jump. So for me, that would get moved up at least a tier, and perhaps Hang On too. Outrun would get moved down, into the lowest abyss your chart can muster. Great video.
Yes! These games were part of many ST job lots I won on eBay before prices got ridiculous. I’m sorry to be the barer of bad news, but it sounds like your versions may have been illegitimate! :D I’ve heard other people saying that there wasn’t any copy protection on these disks, so I’m not surprised! I was surprised by Black Lamp’s appearance in the top 50 too, so I’ve been trying to reevaluate my own opinion of that game. It’s by no means a favourite, but I can now see its appeal after giving it a bit more of a try. You are so right about presentation, coming from the Amstrad CPC, these games were like magic to my young eyes. I remember playing The Real Ghostbusters at a friend’s house and thinking it was amazing, and that game is hot garbage! :D Happy New Year WB!
Got the Power Pack this Christmas and loving watching your opinions of these!
Great video my friend. Lots of memories playing this games. In my case I jumped directly fom a ZX Spectum 8 bits to the wonderful Atari ST, and the Power Pack was my 1st expercience. I can’t describe what I felt that afternoon when we brought it at home with my friends and we started testing that 20 games, but I still remember every exciting moment running each new game, we couldn’t believe it! A new world was opened for us, and we were about 13 years old... I spent thousands of hours with power pack, specially playing Bomb Jack, I think it’s the best and should be on top (not with Gauntlet 2, never liked this game). Oh, and let me suggest you to give another chance to Pac Mania, it’s a funny game, I think that this one and R-type deserve a higher position.
Thanks for the kind words, Joan! I had the ‘first ST’ experience 3 times! Once when my uncle bought his Power Pack ST, then when my best mate bought his STE and then when I got my ST for Christmas! I can still feel that excitement to this day :D I’m with you on Bomb Jack... I loved it too, but I’ve since played the arcade version and it is utter perfection, so going back to the ST version doesn’t quite feel the same now. A couple of people have suggested I give Pac-Mania a proper run for its money, so I might be doing that soon. Happy New Year!
Aww, my first love 31 years ago!
this is the kind of wholesome content we all need at the end of 2020!
Hope you had a good Christmas :)
It was very quiet and relaxing thanks to the restrictions which brings both good and bad. Now we are just wondering what's going to happen in the new year! Thanks for the kind words, Steve. Have a happy new year!
@@thejoyofsticks
Hey man, hope all's ok! It's been a while since we saw new stuff from you and I hope you're ok!
Nice to see you again! POWERPACKS, ftw!
I had a chuckle when you mentioned Music Maker - I never really understood what I was doing, but I loved it!
Double Dragon and Gauntlet were my top faves (I think because they were my fave arcade games) , but used to play Blacklamp because it had a really nice vibe :)
Bombjack used to stress me out hehe, same with Bombuzal. Eliminator had really good music and was super addictivbe! Nebulus wins for quirky cuteness ^_^
Thanks for the kind words, Laura! I realised Music Maker and the like definitely provided a bit of relief when you needed a little downtime from the gaming, that’s for sure. I shouldn’t knock it, because it was probably a lot of people’s first experience with a musical stave and a great way to learn what all the notation means. I did that much later when I got hold of a piece of software called Quartet. It was a very similar interface, but used samples so the final piece of music sounded much better. I spent hours and hours transcribing Beatles tunes and that formed my early music education! :D
@@thejoyofsticks Quartet! YES! I think ST Format released a demo of that on one of their floppies, so I prob messed about with it at some point ^_^ Hope you are well?
time to make a blistering come back. your fans want it
👀
A really cool video that mate. I got this pack with my ST as a kid and loved it. So many great games, and coming from teh ZX Spectrum to this was a dream for me!
I think most of these games would score a lot higher if compared to all other games available on the ST as most of them are playable and fun. Also, like you, there is a lot of nostalgia there for me so they fill me with joy.
I used to love Predator for example, but yeah playing it now it feels so slow.
Im sure my order would be slightly different on them all but I think you did a great job ordering them mate.
Watching this bought back tons of memories, cheers!
Yes! It was difficult to decide how to judge these games. Should I judge them in comparison to the other games in the pack? Should I compare them against the ST games library as a whole? Should I judge them as I saw them when I encountered them back then, or should I judge them on how they stand up now? Who'd have thought that a simple tier list could inspire so much deep thinking? :D
Most importantly, it's helping people relive some cool memories, so I'm happy!
A fantastic half hour plus of ST fun. You cover the dear old machine the best and that half hour went by with the blink of an eye. If you had trebled the duration I’d still have wanted more!
It’s hard to dispute your rankings of the games here, Bombjack for me is the most played of the pack, the ST conversion is absolutely spot on.
For some reason I have a power pack disk with- Beyond the Ice Palace and Thundercats! I’m guessing that they must have been through a different pack!
Got mine from Evesham Micros in Birmingham. I upgraded from a ZX Spectrum and was blown away by the sheer quality of the games. My favourites were Xenon, Nebulus, Eliminator and Starray.
We got ours from Evesham Micros too! That shop is legendary in my eyes. I used to scour their ST Format ads with hungry eyes: “Ooh, a second floppy drive... Aah, a hard disk... Gosh, a colour monitor!” :D
WE MISS YOU
As "dodgy" as they were the menu disks of the Atari ST were a big part of the ST - a very big part. Most of my great memories of the ST were from Pompey Pirates, Medway Boys, Automation etc. Maybe a video or two on those great menu disks and your favourites might be an idea?
So many weird and forgotten games on those disks.
That's a great idea, Mark! I'm not sure how that would look, though. Maybe a look at some of my favourite intros from my favourite groups? Or one video concentrating on one particular menu that I played a lot? Some food for thought there!
@@thejoyofsticks how about having some RNG thing pick a menu number from a particular pirate group and you play the games on that disk - could be fun times going in blind on some of the real obscure things.
That being said I apologise in advance if you end up plodding through some digital stodge like Flunky, Brattacas or that Garfield game.
@@Jayfive276 Ha! That’s a great idea! I really like watching Ashens as he ploughs through Amiga PD disks, so that would be similar, I think.
Perfect timing ,just after the tier 4 news ,along comes our favourite ST channel to ease the blow lol ..I had the power pack with mine ..I'll watch first then vote
Yep. Very healthy to take your mind off trying times with something frivolous, nostalgic and fun. Take care of yourself, buddy.
yep. the ST we got (second-hand from some guy who i think was a scener moving to the amiga) came with the POWER PACK! ELIMINATOR, and the arcade conversions of DOUBLE DRAGON, BOMBJACK & PACMANIA really made an impression on me. also, WEIRD DREAMS, which was appearing on MOTORMOUTH, saturday mornings!
Nice! Weird Dreams was a bit strange, wasn't it? I've never got very far with that one. Those phone-in games on TV were really strange as well. LEFT! LEFT! JUMP! Such a bizarre way to play a game.
@@thejoyofsticks
IIRC the game controlled about as well with the joystick as it did down the 'phone, but i dug it!
🤣
The Power Pack was my experience with the ST as my cousins had it, very fond memories of that. Really good selection of games with only a few obvious cIangers. Don't think they even bought any other games, the entirety of the rest of their collection was menu disks! This did proved a godsend later when ST titles from the shops - just nip over and copy a few games when the opportunity arose.
With the Power Pack and piracy, it's hard to imagine how software houses were making any money at this point in time! :D
@@thejoyofsticks Even worse, those Power Pack disks (and the ones in the Discovery Pack, which I had) had no copy protection whatsoever, there was nothing to stop you literally just dragging the files to another disk!
Another great video Mark, youre my ST jedi master!
It is the way...
Hope you had a very merry Christmas, Marc! Best wishes to you and your family. Have a great 2021! ⛄🎄✨
It was as good as I could ask for under the circumstances, buddy! A very happy new year to you and yours!
Great Video! A quick idea for a next Tier-List, as we enter 2021: ST games released from 2010-2020 ;)
To be honest, I am so hyped about people releasing games for the ST after all these years that I would find it very difficult not to rate every single one at S tier! :D
@@thejoyofsticks I dont have a problem with an honest ranking. I myself would give for example Laserball a B or C at best: Nice game idea, but weak technical execution.
In my opinion, talking about pros and cons of NEW games at first means: New games are talked about!!! ;) - anyway these games get relatively little exposure being marked as "hemobrew". After all, these are just "new games" for our ATARIs. There are better games and weaker ones... and genres some might like and others may not like them. Setting these titles into perspective from a gamers perspective is always a plus! ;)
(btw: I think a lot of titles back in the day started as "homebew"... they just found a publisher)
Bob's list:
S - Gauntlet II
A - Xenon, Nebulus, Eliminator, R-Type, Starglider
B - Pacmania, Bombjack, Bombuzal, Star Goose, Starray, Black Lamp, Super Hang-On
C -Afterburner, Outlander, Double Dragon, Predator, Space Harrier
F - Outrun, Super Huey
Bob’s tier list is S tier, no doubt. Maybe I should do a tier list of tier lists? Let’s meta that meta. Have a great new year, Bob!
@@thejoyofsticks In that case you'd be in the A-tier, at least!
I just wanted to add my voice to those asking: where is Stickhead with my Atari ST gaming channel?
In France we had a slightly different power pack, at least with my STE. I never found the french list but for instance we got ikari warrior. The only failing floppy in my pack was gautlet 2, glad to see that i missed the best game 😄
Quite a few people have mentioned a 'different' Power Pack. It would be interesting to see all the different variations and compare which ones were better or worse. Ikari Warriors is certainly a good addition. A nice little arcade shooter that one! So sorry about your gauntlet 2, you definitely missed out on that one. :(
@@thejoyofsticks I never really found any info about the variation I had in France. A few games was replaced by others. For instance r-type was also missing but replaced by blood money, and no Outrun but replaced by Buggy boy. Anyway, still in love with the ST, lot of friends of mine owned it back in the days so pretty popular in France.
Your videos are so cool. Thank you.
Thank you for the kind words. They are most appreciated.
We hope that you are good and safe bros.
I used to have I spent a lot of time playing those games coming from a spectrum thanks for the memories
That’s the overriding memory for me with these games, the excitement of making that step up to the world of 16-bits! :D Even Afterburner was breathtaking compared to our Amstrad CPC games.
Eliminator is probably my favourite. I boot it up every single time I dabble with emulator.
There is something really special about JMP’s games. I love the way they pushed the ST at this early stage. It was like a TEX demo but with great gameplay!
These videos (you doing tiermaker) are really great. I never had an ST (I had an Amiga) but your videos are making me wish I did :)
wrt the rankings I would have put double dragon lower just based on your description it seemed like an F game but since it’s beatable and playable and you have good memories it gets bumped up one. I’ve never played it but that’s what I was thinking. I love Pac-Mania even though your points are valid about not being able to see the whole play field, so I would have made that an a or maybe as low as b.
I also liked how you pointed out some games that I’ve never heard of. Now really want to play star goose! Also I didn’t know that two of my favorite Amiga games (starglider 2 and no second prize) were also on ST (and that they were good) and that makes me want to see a comparison and get back into those two games. Thanks!
Thanks for the feedback, John! I’m glad you are enjoying them. (and if I can capture an Amiga fan, I must be doing something right!)
Yes, I know Double Dragon is rubbish, but there’s just something about it. It’s like a guilty pleasure or something. Like when you go out for hamburgers even if you have steak at home. Star Goose is definitely worth a go, if only because of how innovative and unique it is. I worry about you coming over to ST versions of games though! Often, especially later on, we got a much inferior version. That being said, the 3D games like NSP and Starglider 2 hold up well thanks to the ST having a slightly faster CPU.
@@thejoyofsticks you’re welcome! There’s nothing wrong with guilty pleasures :). Don’t worry about me I’ve never played Atari ST but I’ll be prepared. For me playing games on old computers is like traveling back in time and is endlessly interesting. I played Gauntlet on C64 all day today lol. Cheers and thanks again!
I love you Joy Of Sticks
😊
Great video!
This was brutal to watch for me as I realized that apart from Xenon, (which I was not a huge fan of - too hard) , none of the games I had back in the day are above Tier B. The only one I think you're being unfair to - and you know it because you hesitated - is PacMania. I understand your reasons as you don't like the concept of not seeing the whole maze. For me the Isometric 3D view gave life to Pac Man and made it so much more immersive, that I loved the Arcade, and played the conversion to death. And the conversion is actually very good in my opinion. Let me explain :) Despite have a smaller playing field as the Amiga and STe versions, it actually is closer to the arcade original screen ratio. To top it off, the game runs much much faster than the aforementioned versions. To the point where I played a small competition back in the day at an event that had only Amigas, and completely crushed it because that version is way slower and too easy compared to the ST version. For all these reasons, I rebuke your classification of PacMania! For the rest, as painful as it is to understand I've playing mostly playing stinkers back in the day, these were my stinkers and I liked them (yes, even After Burner!), even though now I'm usually playing the arcade originals, which means I've moved on... Thanks again for this last contribution of the year!
It’s so great to hear your rebuttal! Thank you for presenting the case for Pac-Mania so eloquently. When I hear such a cogent argument it makes me want to go back to play it again and see if I can come to terms with it a little better. Fascinating to hear your comparison to the Amiga version too. And just because I rated the others low, doesn’t mean they are stinkers! The only games I would call stinkers here are in F, all the others have their merits and are worth playing for various reasons.
Should be the joy of wiggle sticks - I've removed the joystick "wiggle" in Xenon (still selectable by space) d-bug.me/
😳😲🤯Oh my god. You have just fixed my only beef with this game. Incredible. Thank you.
We got the Power Pack with our STE, still remember the evening we got it, trying game after game, being wowed over and over. Well, maybe not by Super Huey 😀. Generally agree with your tier list, though Black Lamp is the game I enjoy playing the most these days. Know what you mean with Double Dragon, it's a clumsy port but still a fun game. I've played the arcade version since then and didn't like it nearly as much.
Thanks for the brilliant idea, kablurg! I had tons of fun filming this one. I knew there would be some Black Lamp fans out there unhappy with my placement! :D Double Dragon is utterly bizarre, and a great case for gestalt theory. Every component is bad and yet the game is still fun. Go figure.
Great memories!
Another great video and I think I can agree with a lot of your list. As with everything in life its subjective, but if I think back to my 10 year old self I can honestly say, outside of Super Huey where I had zero idea wtf I was doing, I loved all the games on the power pack. Of course these days I can look back and think what was trash, like the things that we recognise now like slowdown/low fps, I didn't even register that back then or know it was a thing. I just thought thats the way it was and never questioned it. As such here is my 10 y.o. self's list in order of how much I actually played the games/loved them, which on my list just means an F game i didnt play a lot...:
S - Gauntlet 2 (indescribable amount of hours in that game), Nebulus and Bombjack (these were the family games which we tried to beat each other in), Xenon, Bombjack, BlackLamp
A - Double Dragon (played this so much knew exactly where the enemies would spawn, and could clock it without losing a life), Eliminator (great hard game, eventually finished it), StarGoose, Starray, R-Type (another super hard game, still never got past the final level), Predator ( I loved this game...took me about a year to realise you could drop your gun and pick up guns off dead bodies though...never got through it either)
B - Space Harrier (actually loved this game, used to beat it all the time), Overlander (another game I loved, I think becuase I loved Mad Max. Beat it heaps of times), Outrun (to be honest I never noticed the low fps....I had never played it in the arcade so probably had no reference)
C - Starglider (loved the space flying, but had no idea what I was supposed to do), SuperHangOn, Afterburner (again didnt think it was THAT bad...)
F - Bombuzal (Kept giving it a go but didnt really grab me...perhaps to cerebral for my 10yo brain!), Pacmania (probably the least played game of the power pack), SuperHuey (yeah...again no f'in idea what I was doing. It did teach me what pitch and yaw meant though! Would get up to other helicopters and then get shot down..)
That’s very much how I felt back in the day too. Coming from the Amstrad CPC (a more than capable computer) to the 16-bit marvel that was the ST was amazing, and all of these games (even the ones I know rate at F) were a real treat for us. With the notable exception of Super Huey of course! :D I even enjoyed playing OutRun a lot, but I think it was mainly the load times that prevented me from playing it more.
I love how many games you have in S! Got to love that 10 year old positivity! :) And fascinating that despite that positivity, you still have Pac Mania in F. I wonder why that is? Thanks for the detailed response here, that was great to read.
Bomb jack
Xenon
Double dragon
R type
Super hang on
Theres my top 5 ...or what I played the most from the power pack ..also I did love predator lol ..just fitted well for my wild imagination..have a great tier 4 happy new year mate ..thanks for the great video in 2020
You are most welcome. Thank you for your support! I think I might have been harsh putting Predator in F... it's certainly not as bad as Super Huey!
People like to deride the ST as not as good as the Amiga, but compared to its other competition in the mid-80s, it was way cheaper than either the Macintosh or IBM PC, and had much better graphics and sound than either, it had a more powerful processor than the Tandy 1000, and had a GUI in ROM that could support a large amount of business and creativity software, which was easier to use than MS-DOS or primitive versions of Windows. It would have held its own if the Microsoft/Intel monopoly hadn't shoved it and the Amiga and the Archimedes and all other competitors off the market.
Ohh, man. This pack was my first introduction to this generation's games, so many memories.
R-Type and Xenon are my S tier games. Maybe I'm biased because I actually completed them.
Also slightly sad because some genres became bricked pretty easily. I don't know wether it was because of how they were packed data wise, or because of the fragility of floppy disks. Hang-on, Bomb Jack, Bomboozle and Outrun wouldn't load after a few plays, and Predator had corrupt graphics (for the predator, no less).
Overlander looked great and had fantastic music but it was just so damn hard. I could never finish the first stage as a kid, and even now I still can't!
Those booby traps (are they gun turrets? Machine gun placements?) on the side of the road are so hard to avoid. It's a shame that they decided to up the difficulty in this frustrating way. The gameplay loop could have been so much more rewarding. Start with an easy mission that gives you little cash, work your way up etc. But I guess that's hindsight thanks to seeing how video games have developed more recently!
@@thejoyofsticks Overlander is all about the speed your going to avoid the obstacles, with the barriers you need to slow down to a crawl (like about quarter of the speed bar max), with the machine guns and cars on side of the road, notch the speed down from full to about four or five bars from the top. You'll get killed a lot less. Bikes and the trucks should be at full speed firing as fast as possible. Always go for the more money options at the start and don't waste cash on fire bombs or nukes. Get the turbo conversion and battering rams (for the nasty suprise road barriers that appear before you can slow down) on level one, then level two get the leanburner conversion and super brakes (and battering rams again). If you can get past level 2 which I think is the worst one, you should be fine. By the end you should have all the permanant upgrades, maxed out battering rams and bullet proofing and can finally think about buying some nukes. It really isn't that hard (you finished Outrun, I'd say this is easier once you get the speeds right).
Very nice vid.
Predator was probably only half-finished, especially as you can't really beat the game on the ST from what I understand, but I really enjoyed what few levels were in there. Not great as a shooter but quite atmospheric with all those bodies you come across and those predator attacks, and let's not forget that funky intro music. Probably deserves the F-rating as it was incomplete, but I really liked it.
You are right, and maybe deserves to be saved from F for at least capturing that atmosphere from the movies (so many movie licenses don't). But it is a stinker of a game. I stand by it: run 'n' gun shooters are about running and shooting, and that game does both /very/ badly. I didn't even know about the incomplete thing!
@@thejoyofsticks just found a video showing it is in fact possible to kill the predator and get a proper ending, no idea how you're supposed to figure that out though!
Gauntlet II is definitely the best of the bunch. I'd put Bombuzal in Tier B, Super Hang-On in Tier A, Space Harrier in Tier B, and relegate Double Dragon & OutRun to Tier F. I haven't played Super Huey, but I can tell I'd really dislike it. The weak port of After Burner is the game I'd least like to play in this collection. Another really enjoyable Tier List video. Thanks, Marc 😎
I thought I replied to this, but it has disappeared! If this is a repeat, please ignore...
Gauntlet 2 is a stone cold classic. A great arcade game and a great conversion too. I played it for countless hours with my best mate just exploring deeper and deeper, finding out new things about the game as we went. So much fun. I know I was taking liberties with Double Dragon, every rational synapse in my brain knows it's garbage, and yet I love it so! You are right to body swerve Afterburner too, after playing the arcade and the great Megadrive version, this is baffling. Thanks for the kind words, buddy. Happy new year!
@@thejoyofsticks Yeah, Gauntlet 2 was really fun with another player -- but I also enjoyed fighting my way through the dungeons on my own. The Mega Drive version(known as Gauntlet IV in the UK) has really nice music to complement the action. I remember buying Double Dragon for £5 from a bargain bin -- and I sill felt totally ripped off. 😩 At least you and your cousin got some fun out of it. The only good thing I could say about it, is it's better than the Atari 2600 version. 😃 It's a shame that so many Sega sprite scaling coin-ops were ported so badly to the ST & Amiga. Super Hang-On was pretty special though, so I played it quite a bit. Happy New Year! 🙂
@@kingstonlj I keep meaning to give Gauntlet 4 a go! I have a Megadrive, but I imagine that it’s quite an expensive game to get a hold of now. Maybe I should get it ready for a post-Corona gaming celebration for me and my friend who I used to play Gauntlet (ZX Spectrum) and Gauntlet 2 (Atari ST) with. Yes, £5 for Double Dragon probably is a bit much :D
@@thejoyofsticks I had a look on Ebay and you can get a cart-only for around £10; a boxed copy is around £20-30. Retro gaming stuff is so expensive these days; you could have got a boxed copy of Gaunlet IV for £5-10 10 years ago. I'm glad I collected all my retro gear between 2004-2010. I buy a few retro bits and bobs these days when I'm bored. 😃 If you do end up grabbing a copy of Gauntlet IV, please make a video telling people what you think of it. Happy New Year. 😎
I have to add as well that I enjoyed outrun on the ST it was not in my pack and I remeber going to town to buy it.. It could have been better but I liked it
Even as I'm criticising some of these games, there is a little voice in the back of my mind saying "this was someone's favourite game as a child and you are pissing all over it, for shame!" Sorry, dude. I guess it's like Double Dragon for me. I know that game is not good, certainly not a good conversion, but the memories and fun I had with it as a kid override all of that rational critique! :D
@@thejoyofsticks it's OK mate we all have our opinion yours is a lot more popular on out run haha I'm just putting it out there that I liked it
@@crustycobb8286 It's great to hear the flip side! Thanks for sharing.
I really enjoyed this your second tier video. I hope you stick with the format, it's got lots of legs.
I got a bit confused though and did some googling and I found out that while I thought I had the power pack, I'm now not sure I did, because the games I remember from it are partly from the earlier "super pack" and partly from the power pack. I wonder if there was another large pack like this in the UK. I'm 100% certain mine had return to genesis in it, but it didn't have quite a few of the other super pack in it.
It does seem that there were a lot of different packs out there. A lot of people have commented along the lines of "my pack had some of those games, but with XXX removed and XXX added." Curious! I do remember seeing a Power Pack style disk with Return to Genesis on, so I'm pretty certain you are right. Thanks for the kind words!
@@thejoyofsticks Perhaps you could do a part 2 where you take this one as a starting point with the games already on, and add in the rest of the pack in games from across the packs
Hi! Haven't seen you in a while, hope you upload some more!
Thank you Costas! I've been so busy that ST videos have been put on the back burner, but lovely comments like this certainly inspire me to get back at it.
@@thejoyofsticks 😊 as long as you are doing well, it's good enough for me!
i had grand monster slam in my power pack that was an impressive game for me at the time,
That was recommended to me to play during a live stream a while ago and I gave it a go. It was really cool! I like the concept and the presentation, and the gameplay was interesting and unique. It’s nice that you can still find little gems on the ST after all these years.
Hey mate, just watched this video (took my time lol, I used to post comments from another account "theretrogamesnews"). Been following you for probably 8 to 10 years now. Anyway, lives this video and I agree with your scoring. I k ow what you mean about Double Dragon...I had it on the 64 and it was utter sh1te, but....it was Double Dragon!! I was so blown away by the arcade version and so have find memories. Hey...can I put in a request for you to do another magazine flick through video? If not, anything you do is great. Anyway, all the best and (soon to be) happy we year.
I'd love to do another magazine flickthrough. I haven't recorded anything for ages now and I'll be back at work soon so it's now or never! Any particular magazine you think would be interesting?
Happy New Year, Phil! I hope it's a good one for you.
@@thejoyofsticks That would be awesome! How about an ST Format from 1989 or 90. Take it easy mate.
Hey bud.Just wanted to ask if you are okay?.No video for a year.Miss you and the channel.Take care and hopefully you give us an update from one of your loyal viewers 😉👍👍👍
Hey! I'm absolutely fine, thanks for asking. Very busy with work and other commitments and lacking opportunities to record stuff for the channel, so I just kind of let it slip. I do miss it, so I might return to it soon. Thanks for your kind words!
How are things with you?
@@thejoyofsticks thank you for replying bud👍. Have a good weekend.😉
@@luapnitsua5859 You too!
Some classic games there amongst them. I can't really argue with your list much although for myself I would have R-Type higher and Outrun lower.
I do agree with you though that whilst the pack was great for those buying the ST it must have been maddening for the various games companies as with a pack like that you wouldn't want or need to buy a new game for a very long time.
Yes! What a great introduction to ST gaming. I wonder if I would have got so obsessed about the ST without those early days at my Uncle’s house. I hear what you are saying about Outrun, it was such a disappointment. I can’t remember if I said this in the video, but I spent the day before playing each game to capture footage and remind myself of the games and I managed to play through the whole of Outrun and was surprised that I quite enjoyed it, so I think that’s what bumped it up a rank.
I must have got a later discovery pack without nearly as many games. Carrier Command, Bombjack, Space Harrier and Outrun If memory serves, Outrun being the only stinker.
I didn’t realise there were other Power Packs. I assumed ours was the one and only. I know there was a Discovery Pack. I know you got less games, but you did get Carrier Command, which would have sailed (see what I did there) into S tier easily. Great game.
@@thejoyofsticks your probably right and that's probably the one I had then! Yeah, Carrier Command was great and it didn't run like a sideshow like a lot of 3D games did. It also came with Stos and Neochrome as well which I probably put more time into those than all the games combined.
Maaaarc!! Where are you? We miss you, mate.
Outrun was served dreadfully home ports, there was just no way computers of the time could match the speed of the arcade. Even in that context though the ST version is utterly appalling. I'd completely forgotten about the ridiculous loading times as well, Space Harrier was the other one that took forever to load, although at least that was playable compared to Outrun. I think it was because for some reason the usual fast loading routine wasn't put on these disks, so you'd have to sit there listening to it chug through every byte at the slowest speed imaginable.
Indeed. I think it was only the Sega consoles that got half decent versions, is that right? I remember even the ZX Spectrum version of OutRun was better than the ST version!
Hope you're doing well "Joy of Sticks"!
I am doing well, thanks for asking. And yourself?
The Outrun conversion should be on a tier so low it doesn’t fit on the screen.
🤣I'd just played it moments before filming and managed to get through to the finish line. Quite enjoyed it. Probably the first time I ever have enjoyed playing it. That's the only thing that saved it from F!
Amiga version was worse, sadly
Hey Marc, missing your videos bro! Hope all is well.
I'm great, Phil! Trying not to be gutted about going back to work tomorrow, looking forward to making some more videos. How's you?
I got my STFM in 88 now it's has a different set of games with it but a few were in my pack too.
What games did you get, Crusty?
@@thejoyofsticks Beyond The Ice Palace, Thrust, Thundercats, Black lamp, quadralien, summer olympiad, Eddie Edwards supper ski, star quake, xenon, ikari warriors, wizball I think that's it but I bet I remeber some more after I finish haha
@@crustycobb8286 That's a pretty nice pack of games too. I loved Eddie Edwards Super Ski! Haven't played it for ages... right, I'm off to give it a go. Thanks for the reminder!
Am missing the stick head, been a while since we have seen some updates, hope life’s ok and alls well, take care….
Marc, where'd you go dude?
Without yet watching it, being very familiar with the Power Pack (I still remember the huge plastic casing it came in) I'd go...
S - Gauntlet 2 & Pac-Mania
A - Bomb Jack / Double Dragon / Xenon / Nebulus / Star Goose / Bombuzal
B - R-type / Space Harrier / Super Hang On / Stay Ray / Predator / Star Glider
C - Afterburner / Black Lamp / Eliminator / Overlander / Super Huey - Black Lamp would've been higher, but without the instruction manual the game is more than a little bit of a mystery.
F - Outrun (only here because I felt compelled to pick one F and, let's be honest, this wasn't a great port)
PacMania at S! Are you sure?! 🤣I'd love to hear your reasoning behind that (you must have been so annoyed at that part of the video... 😬 You seem to like Predator a lot more than me too. It's great to be reminded just how subjective things like this are... I genuinely thought no-one could like that game (except its mother, maybe) but you are the second person to leap to its defense.
@@thejoyofsticks Similar to a lot of your choices, I have to go off nostalgia value. More than anything, what sticks in my mind for Pac-Mania was the cutscenes in between levels. I think this was perhaps the first game I played that had actual cutscenes. Yes, the gameplay could be amazingly frustrating and particularly on the more complex levels with different sections as you attempted to hunt down those last 3-4 pellets. For me though, those cutscenes just demanded I play one more level to see what was next :D
Predator... Well, as 6-7-year-old Mike, it scared me more than the R-type loading screen. And, again, strictly for nostalgia I'm probably putting it higher than it deserves.
@@PigeonPlucker It’s so funny, but you are so right. Sometimes it was those little details that would win you over. We must sound like primitive savages to younger gamers when we say things like “it was great because it had cut-scenes.” :D For me, Dogs of War comes to mind. The game itself was pretty average (and that’s being very generous) but we loved it because of the stupidly detailed shop at the beginning of each stage.
How are things marc ..not seen any posts for a while mate ,hope ur well and look forward to more ST content 🤜
I'm good, thanks for asking! Work is ridiculous at the moment, so not much time for extra curricular activities! 😅 I'm writing some reviews for a magazine, so keep an eye out for that. How's the retro veganism world looking?
@@thejoyofsticks all good here part from the covid situation ,blues are winning as we speak so maybe that part of our lives is looking good lol ..played pit fighter the other day ,everytime I go into town it inspires me to want to play pit fighter ..especially round the carpark by the old toys r us ..probably cus its still dodgy round there ..look forward to more content when u get 5 min ..stay safe mate
I was so disappointed after playing the arcade, looking forward to it
Overlander's simple backgrounds make me feel like it could be adapted into a much more fun combat portion for this obscure IBM PC game called Flightmare. Flightmare was an incredible game but also incredibly hard. The problem is the weird 3D view where you see the side and top view. A third person perspective view would make it a LOT more fun.
Flightmare review and explanation: czcams.com/video/16e3eXWh4MQ/video.html
Flightmare looks so cool! I love the CGA palette! The dual perspective view(s) in that game are actually pretty innovative and I applaud them for trying something new, but still... there's a reason why that type of gameplay wasn't adopted by other games. I'm not sure PCs of the time would have been able to produce Overlander style graphics, but I see what you mean, it would be a better way to present the action sections.
@@thejoyofsticks Oh, I wasn't thinking in terms of designing for the original IBM PC. I was thinking an ST game inspired by the IBM PC game. It could have been a 1985 ST game.
But even if we're talking 1984, there are other 8-bit computers which could have done smooth raster road motion (Atari 8-bit and C64 in particular).
@@IsaacKuo Oh, I see! Yes, but then I think a low-poly remake might fit a game like this. Stick to the CGA palette (Mmm... cyan and magenta) but use chunky little 3D models and PC speaker style sound effects. That would be cool.
@@thejoyofsticks I have vague memories of an ST/Amiga motorcycle racing game that used filled polygon graphics ... can't remember what it was now, though ...
Okay I'm stupid. You mentioned the game in this video! (No Second Prize)
Is there a way to replay these old games please? 🙏
Hope you do a new vid soon Stickhead. 😎
I have an atari st disk that I hope is still good. I want what's on it. Lots of people might want a copy of what's on it. But I don't have a working computer that can read it. If you were me, what would you do? Is there someone I might send it to that can get an image from it? Is there a way to make it read on my computer?
Built in PC floppy drives can read most ST disks, and USB drives can read standard format floppies iirc. There is a program called floimg by Ppera that works well with internal floppy drives. So I would say the best way is to get hold of an old Windows PC that has a floppy drive. You could get in touch with software preservers like Marko Latvanen (@maraka77i on twitter) and I'm sure he would be happy to help. I'd do it myself, but my ST has no floppy drive at the moment.
Hi, I'm happy to help :) I've got a few hardware devices which can read many disk formats. If it's ok for you to send the disk over to Finland I'll make a dump for you and send the disk back. You can DM me for example via Twitter.
Thanks,
Marko
I thought you were a bit too kind on Outrun.
It's a stinker of a conversion 😂
The Predator game looks good at least. Guess that wasn't the case!
the power pack that came with my STe (1989 i think) had super huey, mouse trap and buggy boy on disk F. i would have much rather had overlander and starglider!
I didn’t realise there were Power Packs with different games. I assumed the one my uncle got was THE Power Pack. Buggy Boy was a great, great game. I think you got a good deal!
@@thejoyofsticks I haven't found a lot of info on different versions of the power pack ( obvs. there was the discovery pack and other countries had something called the super pack) . There was an old ebay listing for the instruction card for the "f" disk that I had. If it wasn't for that and the fact that I still have the disk I might think I imagined it 😁
You can jump in Pac-Mania. They probably added that because you can’t see the whole board.
How are you ? Do you still make Videos? All the best.😎😃👍 Greetings from germany.
I haven't made videos for a while. I've just been so busy recently. I miss it though. Definitely thinking about diving back in.
@@thejoyofsticks Hope you find some time. Thank' s 😃😎👍👍👍
Finally got round to watching this after missing it when it came out due to a move. Lol will have to agree to disagree with some of those, Bombuzal was horrible for me, and Black Lamp wasn't great either. Outrun would be the only one in bottom tier, Super Huey looks horrible but isn't a bad game, I'm seemingly immune to the frame rate issues that bug other people so Afterburner wasn't so painful for me either, its not a great conversion but could have been worse. Space Harrier and Overlander would have been in the A grade on my list, while Xenon would have been a B for me - Xenon 2 for the win I'm afraid ;) I actually think Double Dragon is a good game for the exactly reasons you mention. It is cheesy, but a lot of fun, which is the main thing. The sequels looked better but lost the fun, sadly. I thought R-type was a fairly good conversion until that mothership on the second level, with it's terrible jumpy movement. Agree on Nebulous, Eliminator and Star Goose, but Bomb Jack, may be a little lower (it could be better I think the ST could have got it almost arcade perfect). The worst thing about the power pack is that if you missed it, you ended up with the Discovery pack, which had about four games, my sister ended up with this version, although the ten star games pack from Silica saved it. I didn't get either, my ST had no games with it other than some throw ins from Evesham Micros, but they were Space Harrier, Overlander, Star Wars, Bubble Bobble and a Time Bandit demo, I got lucky as these are still some of my favs. I did get a CPM Emulator disk as well though (yawn!) :) How about the Super or the Summer Pack next (the Power Pack's predecessors), now they had some weird stuff in..
It's great to hear these opposing opinions, especially as far as Super Huey is concerned. And you are not alone in being immune to the frame rate issue! Lots of people have said it was never an issue for them back in the day, and it's really difficult to objectively critique these games now when we are used to at least 30fps and often 60fps as standard in our games.
You are so right about fun being the main thing. That is, after all, why we play these games in the first place. Every time I play that game, I get a sloppy smile on my face that just won't go away.
Your pack-in from Evesham Micros sounds great! Not as many games as the Power Pack, granted, but they are all very playable and lots of fun. I would personally have traded lots of our Power Pack for Bubble Bobble alone. What a game!
@@thejoyofsticks I do wonder with Double Dragon whether it was the sound samples that elevate it from bad to camp classic (the Flash Gordon of Atari ST games?). I can imagine without them it might have been as bland as the sequel. That death sample that sounds like someone throwing up is hilarious, and the weird noise those giants (Abobu or something wasn't it?) was also bizarre and yet totally right.
An amazing software bundle that sadly helped accelerate the decline of the ST
Doesn't seem like a very smart marketing decision, but hey, for once, the consumer won! :D
Then after that there was the STe debacle.
@@Jayfive276 Yes! I had a lot of trouble getting 3 or 4 of these games to work on my STe. You wouldn't be happy if you'd spent a lot to upgrade back then, would you? Thankfully DBug and Klapauzius came to my rescue with some great patched versions.
I can't say I agree with you on some of the games, :)
Double Dragon, obviously not arcade perfect, but for me one of a handful of side-scrolling beat 'em ups on the ST worth playing. I liked the ST version so much that I soon stopped playing the arcade version (and save money) to focus on on the ST version.
Gauntlet, for me it's a garbage of a game. I can't stress that enough. I know I am in the minority over this. I hated the arcade, I hate the ST version. Utter POS.
Nebulus, I can't stand it. Technically awesome, I don't like it.
Overlander, for me it's like a cousin of Fire & Forget. :)
I loved Predator. One of the games I played a lot with friends. Is it objectively great? No. But I can't say it's a bad game. For me it's a good 8-bit game on the ST.
Space Harrier, never been a fan of the game, but I always thought the port was good. Especially with the mouse control.
Staaarglideeeer from Raiiinbiiird raiiinbiiiird nothing lower than S.
Xenon, one more game I just can't really play and have fun with it.
For the other games I either agree with you completely or not enough to mention it.
I did not get the power pack. There were no power packs when I got my first ST in 87. Vanilla packaging with zero games. Which pissed me off when the first power pack arrived.
No matter what, thanks for an another good video man. Good way to end a shit year.
Happy new year buddy and to all ST fans out there.
I’d be disappointed if you did agree, Trusty! Thanks for adding your 2 cents worth to these. I can understand your opinion on lots of these, but Gauntlet 2?! That’s hard to swallow! :D Zero games packed in with your ST? Ouch! What did you do when first received your ST? Played around in GEM? XD
Thanks for your kind words, your continued support, and a happy new year to you too! Make it a great one.
@@thejoyofsticks Exactly that, GEM and basic. I didn't get my first game on the ST for some days, or perhaps more than a week later. Thankfully it was a good one, Starglider.
Want to know something a bit weird? Bombuzal (aka Kablooie) was a launch title for the Super Famicom in November 1990. What an odd choice! The others were F-Zero, Super Mario World, ActRaiser, Populous (another slightly odd one!), Final Fight, Gradius 3, Pilotwings and SD The Great Battle.
I had no idea! I’ve never seen a Super Nintendo version (was it released over here?). That’s a pretty handy launch library! F-Zero, Super Mario World, Gradius and Pilotwings and I think I’d be sorted for months of gaming. That does make me wonder... which console/computer had the best launch lineup?
@@thejoyofsticks Not released in PAL territories as far as I know. Maybe they saw sense and realised anyone who wanted to play it already had done on the home computers. It took nearly three years to get a US release!
Think I wrote it in your BB tier video, but Xenon for me is a low A if not B. It simply has no fluid gameplay and you struggle so often in situations where you should have morphed into the other vehicle! Technically it's brilliant though.
I bought Predator the day it came out, so it must be good, pffft! On the same day I also got the cracked, trained version!😂
flic.kr/p/26pkQ3D
Oh yes, my S rank here doesn’t mean perfect by any means, but for me it is amongst the best on offer in the Power Pack by quite some margin. Your criticism is absolutely valid and I often wonder if the arcade version would be better to play as it looks pretty much identicle (longer stages, maybe?) but might eradicate the wiggle to change nonsense with an extra button. Thanks for sharing your Predator! I have one of those too, as I decided to buy original games of all the games that were significant to me, and these Power Pack games were hugely significant as some of the first games I ever played on ST. Happy New Year, TPau65!
@@thejoyofsticks Happy new year to you, too!
Wait a sec, you mean there is an arcade version of Xenon? Never heard of that tbh.😲
I just saw another of those awesome remakes that people do from time to time, and this one has a real arcade feel and look to it. A WEC Le Mans racing game - Atari STE 50fps racing game WIP czcams.com/video/j7i6CrWSf6M/video.html
It looks like a great project. And running at 50fps too! 🤩
@@thejoyofsticks The coder says the CZcams video makes it look rubbish, and that its way smoother! Definitely sounds like he will be finishing it, as he says he has got good at creating lots of good fast running blocks of code for everything. Apparently he worked on the Lotus game a few years back, and look how awesome that is.
@@EgoShredder Well, if you record it at 50fps, encode it at 50fps in the video editor, upload it to CZcams at 50fps and then convince everybody watching to switch their monitors to 50hz, CZcams footage of ST games looks mint. 😂
Yes, it's great that such a talent is still working on the ST. I wonder if he would consider a 25fps version with more scenery and undulating hills?
@@thejoyofsticks I doubt it as he seems to want to achieve 50fps more than anything else, although he sounds open to ideas so maybe...
great games but outrun was terrible. good to see Xenon at the top, brilliant game and music.
I really enjoyed listening to your ratings, but I don't agree 😉 Super hang on and Nebulus are solid B:s, the rest is C or lower, most are F. Some are well executed, like Xenon, but just boring games.
Most of these games are really crap actually. There are some very good games on the ST like Turrican 2, Speedball 2, Maupiti Island, Vroom. These games here are really lame...
R-Type "C", Space Harrier "B"...
I don't know if you'll read this, but it would be great to see a video from you about that enhanced Lotus Esprit Turbo Challenge port on Atari STe recently made