Braze vs. Weld
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2024
- More short videos at www.gsegmedia.com. A frequent question is what is the difference between brazing and welding. This short video demonstrates gas welding and brazing mild hot rolled steel.
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Im 28yo been welding intermediate for 5yrs in the industrial mfg field. Today was the first time I ever heard of brazing. Thank you for the video!
Huh? WTF.
It really is more of an old school practice to be honest it's not nearly as common now as it was in the 80s and 90s
I am happy that you are still here , helping people . Thank you George
Thanks for commenting, Good to still be here. George
Indexed categories of videos.
gsegmedia.com/?page_id=4657
As a professional HVAC tech and welder... It’s always been a pet peeve of mine when people interchange the terms brazing and welding and even sometimes calling it “braze welding”.
The succinct difference between the 2.
Brazing uses a filler rod, a DIFFERENT metal than the parent metal, that melts at a LOWER temp than the parent metal to join parent metal(s), think “gluing”.
Welding uses filler rod, a majority of its composition being the SAME as the parent metal, requiring melting BOTH the filler AND parent metals to join parent metal(s). Basically making 2 pieces of metal 1.
“Gas” welding is just a class of welding that uses ANY type of flammable gas (hydrocarbon), usually also requiring pure oxygen, to melt the metals using an open flame.
BTW, Nice work George...
David, yes terminology is a problem. So often we learn the wrong term and it sticks with us for life. I still call an adjustable wrench a Crescent wrench.
Good information David
@@897473 There is no terminology problem. Its actually 3 things or I could say 4: welding, braize welding, brazing and soldering.
The one you show is actually braze welding. Brazing requires tight clearances to take advantage of capillary attraction.
To call it brazing you would have to buttit tight, preheat the joint and fill it in one or few points and let the brass FLOW....no dipping along the joint necessary. Its common industrial often automated process. For repairs though, like cracked castings you may not always able to use capillary advantage. So you may need to bevel the joint and welding technic to fill it up sometimes in a few passes...
@@andriyshapovalov8886 Seriously: You should do a video on brazing and braze welding. You've explained the difference in one clear and concise paragraph. My concern is that if I tried to do the same I would just muddy the waters. It's too easy to overload the viewer, but you've made it simple and straight forward. Thanks, George-
@@andriyshapovalov8886 NO! you are wrong. In technical terms it is very clear that Welding is different from Brazing and also different form Soldering. To recap it all, again Welding is joining for example two Same Parent or Base metals using a filler metal (welding rod) with the same composition as that of the Base or Parent metals being joined together. On the other hand, Brazing is joining for example two Same Parent or Base metals using a Different metal with lower melting point as a Filler metal (brazing rod), and Soldering is the same principle as that of Brazing only that you are using a Different metal with a Much Lower melting point than that of a Brazing rod for example a Lead as a Soldering material. When you say Braze Welding that is absolutely Wrong! What you mean maybe is Braze Joining, or Weld Joining, or Solder Joining of Parent or Base metals. Also to add to this, Spacing or Gaps has nothing to do with the definition or differentiation of the Three processes. I know for sure because I am formally educated with these processes.
John, "Informative, no nonsense" I'm going to use that on my tombstone. Thanks
yes.
Thank you for this video. I actually use soldering and brazing in jewelry making for much smaller scale sculpture and attachments. I appreciate your in depth explanation on the difference in strengths; as well as your appreciation for the artistic value a bronze brazing can add.
For specific situations there is nothing better than arc welding. For ease and convenience the Mig is without equal. The benefit of the oxy/ace torch is that it is so versatile. You can braze, silver solder, weld, cut, heat, anneal etc.
Thanks for the comment!
Electric welding is either with the Mig, Tig or Arc welders.
Today, gas welding is not used much in industry but oxygen acetylene welding is an important tool in the small shop or the home shop. You can both braze and weld using the oxygen acetylene torch.
Is that because the oxyacetylene torch heats up too much? I guess if you were welding cast iron, the torch would be better than electric welders. keeping the pieces warm and slowing down the cooling process.
I wanna learn to arc weld my dads got one but we can’t put it in our garage cuz it needs 3 phase
Very informative and easy to understand. You have shown precisely what I have been trying to learn without the benefit of a shop teacher. Thanks for the well produced and thoughtful insight into the differences between the two. Try asking the average shop guy the difference and nobody seems to know the real answer.
Franklin, thanks for viewing and commenting. Glad the video was helpful.
I'm currently in a SMAW class and it's nice to see some videos showing comparisons and slowing things down like this. Thank you.
Thanks for commenting. Glad you like.
Very nice, clear to understand!!
them hands have some miles on em
+robert singleton Yes, these hands have served me well.
+Stephen Bennett Stephen, it could be a number of things. Check you tip and be sure it is clean with no obstruction. Try changing your mixture of oxygen/acetylene. Example: Turn the knob so you get a bit more acetylene or oxygen. May have to increase the pressure at your regulators. May have to hold your torch in a different position so the sparks don't fly up into the torch tip. Maybe holding the torch too close to the work you are welding. Try varying the distance between the blue cone anyou are d the metal you are welding. Make small adjustments. If and adjustment increases the popping, try the opposite. Let me know how it works out.
That's how you know that he knows what he's talking about
This is exactly what I was looking for, great explanation and demonstration. I hope to see more videos so informative
Informative, no nonsense presentation; and that voice - deep and succinct - a pleasure to listen to. Thank you.
Used to do this in welding class back in 1975 to 1977. Plan on starting again. Doing auto body work. Thanks for the video enjoyed it
You might be as little rusty, but the skills you had then will come back with a little practice.
Thank you. I found your video very insightful!
Thank you for this simple straight forward tutorial.
thank you for this video I braze when I make my bicycle frames and can always learn more about it
Looks like great fun. I've done some welding with a Henrob torch many years ago in an airplane building workshop. I never did get a chance to do it much, though. I always meant to go out and buy a torch. This looks awesome. I'll have to buy your videos and some equipment and go play.
Thank you very much.
I'm sure I don't have to tell you this but you do a wonderful job on your work and explaining how to do everything in your instructional videos.
Don't pay any attention to the negative comments you receive. That's the problem with the Internet. Cowards that make negative comments about someone's hard work don't have to take responsibility for things they say.
Funny how what they say would change if they were standing in front of a class room. If your not here to learn from these videos, then
I look at your work and see workers who are training people to have more knowledge about doing things that is more important than the technical people who know theories and do nothing. Keep up the great job you are doing.
Thanks Darcy. Appreciate the comment.
George Goehl How have you been going,I love your work ,and learn so much .keep Strong.
You do a good job at gas welding, a lost art!
Also I forgot to mention, That is some mighty fine welding you have there sir.
And thank you for watching!
I've never heard that. Most of the sculpture I do is clear coated (painted) either with a clear lacquer, clear acrylic or clear enamel. I've never had a problem with paint sticking to brazed joints.
You may want to check with some auto body forums.
Thanks for the question.
Another thank you for your informative video.
Took a welding class last trimester and got the braze first try, as oppose to having a very hard time with Arc welding. Wish I could braze some more.
your video was very clear, helpful and interesting. thank you
Thanks for the comment. I only use Mig for welding steel. I'll be anxious to hear about your results running silicon bronze.
Thanks for an excellent video! I had a question about brazing filler material: What is going to be the joint strength difference between using brass vs a high-content solder? I know there are perks to each (cost advantage to brass, lower melting temp for the solder), but what are the differences in strength?
Thanks again!
Yes, there definitely is a difference between Arc and brazing. It's often said that someone who can braze well is apt to pick up Tig welding fairly quickly.
Yes, very informative piece...great pacing!
Fantastic video, thank you!
Thank you for the video. It was clear and well done.
+Dawn Sherper Dawn, thanks for viewing and your comments.
George, thank you for sharing your knowledge with the rest of us. In your gas welding show and tell, were the subject pieces cleaned of the mill scale? I noted that you placed much importance on cleaning to bare metal for the braze example. When you get time.Andy
Thanks for your comment.
Thank you for your excellent informative video :)
+Crank Cuffin Thanks Crank. Glad it worked for you. Thanks for viewing.
now that's a good weld both of them. Good vid.
I need to add an extension to a torsion spring arm. I'm thinking that brazing will be a good application since the metal rod of the spring will be possibly annealed but not brittle as a weld might make it. Am I correct or should I consider welding. Either will be using Oxy/Acetylene.
Personally, I would braze. If that doesn't work out you can always grind off the braze and then weld.
I will never be as good as you.
You got two years head start. i didn't start until I was 27. Embrace your mistakes, they are your best teacher.
Thank you for the video, which explains something I really didn't understand. My next question is that if welding is so much stronger than brazing, when would you use brazing as a preferred technique to connect two pieces of metal? Thanks again, KB.
Gas welding most often refers to welding steel to steel. (Although there are exceptions). I use brazing when I want to attach copper to steel, copper to copper, copper to brass, copper to stainless.
More fuel options? I only know of 2 that can be used to weld (acetylene and hydrogen), but there are way more that can be used to braze and those also tend to be more affordable.
Yeah, that's about how my brazed joints look. I hate brazing. Going from welding to brazing is like someone jacked up your power on your welder and now you have way too much heat. That was a common practical joke when I was learning welding. When it happened to me I just moved the puddle faster. Thing I couldn't stand about brazing is you have to be way too precise on your temp. I still remember that first time I touched brazing rod to the piece of mild steel I has so carefully preheated and then sploosh, molten brass everywhere. It runs really fast and I could never get my puddle control down.
Yes, I have get around to doing that.
@tmtx7
I use copper, brass, bronze & steel. All those metals can be brazed to each other.
super instructive, i'm going to wikipedia right now. Thank you.
Question I have is this... is brazing kinda like when plumbers do piping? They are not heating the copper to insane melting temps but they are using another easier to melt metal to "braze" them together correct?
Plumbers are soldering. Much lower heat. Can be done with propane, Here is a video on soldering copper pipe: czcams.com/video/08EoW4ovQKU/video.html
I thought I had a CZcams video titled How Close to Hold the Torch. I am putting an older video up on CZcams today. I think this will answer your question.
I absolutely love brazing I always have since I was a little kid in junior high first learning it I loved it and my teacher came up to me and took me aside and he said I have never seen any student is good at breezing as you he said don't tell anyone I told you I will deny it because he didn't want me to**** *** any of the other kids. But that teacher changed my life he made me feel like I could do something and I was good at something I had very low self esteem before that teacher took me aside and after he took me aside I felt like I could do anything that I set my mind out to doing he really made a difference in my life and I'll never forget him
You got me! I've never heard of these terms.
You might try American Welding Society (AWS). They have a web site.
Very informative. Thanks !
Great Video, Thank you.
Good information, thanks. I've never seen it done to see the differences.
I hear differing opinions from the metal supply houses. Can 260 or 360 brass be butt brazed? I'm doing a crafting project that would use .063 sheet. I guess I could slip a thicker plate under the seam if that would help... I'd prefer 260 because it is easier to cold form.
Also, how easy can you grind a brazed joint down smooth, or can't you?
**apologies if you've addressed this elsewhere
Just saw this post. I don't work with a lot of brass. I'd suggest looking at sites like this: www.speedymetals.com/information/Material79.html
So is brazing with the rg45 basically the same as stick welding ?
Difficult to say without seeing the weld.
Things you might check:
1) changing your speed of movement as you progress through your weld.
2) keeping the same distance between the torch and the metal.
3) Melting more or less gs rod as you move along the weld.
What I mean is, you put the rod ahead of the flame. Vs running the torch ahead of the rod. I've watched several videos and no one explains that part. thank you.
Now I am not sure what you are asking. If I have the torch in my right hand and the rod in my left. Most generally I move from right to left. The torch flame is heating the metal to be brazed or welded and is ready to melt the rod when the metal is up to brazing or welding temperature.
Appreciate the comment. Will try to keep them coming.
Cool, very informative video 😉👍
Not exactly sure what you are referring to. There is a "gouging" tip that goes on a oxygen acetylene cutting torch for cutting out rivets. I've never used one so i am not a good source of information.
"Sound Metal" again, I am not sure what you mean by "sound metal". Sorry, I am not much help for your question.
I like your explain about brazing and welding.
Thanks for commenting. I'm doing a CZcams video on a gas saver. Can you get me some information on the SK Brazing gas saver? Please send to: ggoehl@gmail.com
Hi George am trying to braze with a butane / propane tin a empty gas tank with a little hole in it. The braze or brass braze rod does not melt ..do I need to change gas type in mapp?
I'm guessing that you do not have enough heat for the rod you are using. You might try using silver solder or SIL-FOS which has some silver content. Both of these will melt at a lower temperature than standard brazing rod. I've never brazed with butane so I just giving my best guess.
Hey George, great video. Thanks for taking the time to do it. Hope you don't mind a few naïve questions:
1. Does one need that welding torch to braze bronze on steel as in your example or can a normal gas torch be used (Bernzomatic)?
2. In your example, if you brazed both sides, wouldn't it substantially increase the strength?
3. Is it necessary to use bronze on steel? Can same technique/temperature be used with a steel rod on steel?
There is not enough heat from a propane torch. I do not have a lot of experience with propane. You can anneal copper. Probably not enough heat to melt the brazing rod. Welding steel to steel takes more heat than brazing. You can increase the heat temperature with adding oxygen to propane. I have never used oxygen / propane so I'm not a good source for information. There are some videos you CZcams for oxygen / propane brazing. Sorry I can't be more help.
Glad that was dome help!
George, you say above that the blue cone never touches the brazing rod. Then, whee do you put it to braze? Is the blue cone then behind the brazing rod? I am trying to figure out where to put the brazing rod into the flame to get it correctly positioned. Great Video. I will have to go back and review your DVD on this again. Always great videos and E books.
Appreciate the comment.
this is so much informative thanks
Really appreciate you commenting. For more brazing and welding videos check out this link: gsegmedia.com/?page_id=4657
wonderful instructions :) a big thanks :)
welldone George
Is it possible to gas weld small diameter round bar to thin metal sheeting using gas welding? If so, what type rod would be suitable for the job thanks
Yes,, definitely possible. I'd use 1/16" RG 45. Standard steel gas welding rod. You might consider brazing. Brazing requires less heat so the sheet metal is not going to warp quite as much as with gas welding.
I would think brazing is useful where it is important not to melt the parent steel. I sometimes fabricate shapes by dovetailing smaller pieces into the larger main part. Silver solder or bronze filler gets into the joint by capillary action which makes it look like an original one piece forging.
Thanks George.
If I am using my spray outfit, I use clear lacquer. If I just want to spray a small piece I will reach for a can of aerosol, either acrylic or enamel.
There are all grades of paints and coatings. Generally the more you pay the better they are, although that is not always the case.
For more technical information you need to find a forum that deals with the chemistry of coatings (paint).
I am not sure exactly which video you are referring to. Clean metal will always braze or weld better than rusty, oily or paint covered metal.
I do tend to clean up any metal before welding or brazing. It saves time in the long run.
Thank you for sharing this information !
appreciate the comment. Look for more videos in the near future.
Great Video ! 👍
+OC_VILLAIN Thanks for all your positive comments. George
George u are the best.
Thanks you. Was looking at that video and think it is time that I do that one again.
Greetings! I'm wanting to make a large geometric shaped light pendant out of coat hangers. My father-in-law has a blow torch to weld and does industrial type welding for his tools all the time. Is the project viable? What would I need to have these pieces of steel stick? Thanks!!
+Jennifer Vrooman Jennifer, if your father-in-law is a welder that should be very easy to weld together. He could weld to get ends together, or fusion weld or braze. If he welds I am sure that he has everything that is necessary. Sounds like a great project.
good instruction, thanks. It would be nice if there was a way for the camera to see into the bright flame better. Thanks much!
In your opinion can I braze an air compressor tank and repair the leak by the old weld?
I've never brazed any kind of tank so I'm not a good source.
Great techniqe and advise. Thank you ....I am upscaling from jewellery manufacture repairing my trailer! Kind regards Steve Morrison NZ
Very nice video, thanks!
I have been watching your videos and since retiring I thought I would incorporate wood with metal. Can you use oxy-propane instead and do you ever tig or mig weld and braze.
Today I primarily braze. Use some gas welding with gas filler rod for steel to steel. Used to mig a lot, but now use mig rarely. No longer have a tig welder. Oxy/Propane is becoming very popular. I have no experience with oxy/propane, but from what I've heard from others is that you can braze with oxy/propane but not gas weld. You can use this link to see a more complete list of my CZcams videos. gsegmedia.com/?page_id=2877
George, I am thinking about making a T wrench for my acetylene tanks. I know you know they have a #5 square shut off. My question is,do you know if you can buy rolled steel square tubes that small? I have a 40cf acetylene tank for my plumbing work and also a small oxyacetylene torch rig with a 10cf that both have the same shut offs and am tired of loosing those cheap little wrenches. thanks George.
Peter, I've often misplaced the wrench and have used a small pair of vice grips. I'm sure there is square tubing that small, but where to get it is the question. I would imagine that most square tubing that small would have a thin wall. There are such things as square wrenches, called gear wrenches. I'll think about this some more. www.homedepot.com/p/GearWrench-1-4-in-x-3-16-in-Square-and-9-16-in-x-1-2-in-Hex-HVAC-Quad-Box-85221/202763317?MERCH=REC-_-PIPHorizontal2_rr-_-202763307-_-202763317-_-N
George Goehl Thanks George, Guess I'm also looking for a more convenient wrench like the T. Just happens noone sells that#5 size. Forney carries the 1/4 and 3/8s but not this small size. The biggest pain with the little box wrench is with my small oxyacetylene set. Getting a box wrench into the jumble between the tanks is a pain. T wrench would be perfect. I was thinking a socket style head brazed onto a small brazed T might work. Wasn't sure rolled steel would hold up anyway,, unless the wall thickness was decent. Thanks George, will keep up the search.
Thank you,excellent instruction...
I want to make a pannier rack in order to fix an ammo box to my motorcycle....
Would this type of welding,if correctly done, be suitable to hold the metal together for such a task?
I suppose it would heavily depend on the weight of the loaded pannier/rack and the quality of the weld.
Joseph, if it was me I would braze either mild steel or stainless steel rod. You could use flat material, but I generally think of panniers being made of rod (round). Brazing would be easier than gas welding unless you are very familiar with gas welding. If you haven't done much brazing, buy a little extra rod for practice.
@@897473Thank you for your prompt reply and useful advice...I will be sure to take that into consideration.
Would brazing be a good method of joining an aluminum or wrought iron fence to a post? Or would a different form of welding be better?
+Steve Sandoval Steve, I've never worked with aluminum so I can't help you there. You don't say what material the post is. Just off the top of my head, I'd be looking at bolts and nuts or if the post is wood, heavy lag screws.
Currently I don't have a close up filter that will show the molten puddle for brazing or gas welding.
is there a requirement on the torch attachment for brazing? possible if i just use kitchen propane torch to braze some galvanized steel sheets?
I don't braze galvanized steel because of the fumes.
"Zinc oxide fume generated during Joining-galvanized steel by welding, if inhaled, cause the metal fume fever.
Although non toxic, the symptoms from breathing such fumes may debilitate affected persons for 24 to 48 hours".
Source: www.welding-advisers.com/Joining-galvanized.html
I love you videos. The second half of the brazing weld looked too hot.don't need preheat when you're running out of steel.
great video thanks very much!
Hey, thanks for posting this :)
great vid. can you join steel and copper?
Hello I have a question, What is the best system for sheet metal ?
Weld/Braze gas mig tig etc ?
I’m wanting to do some classic car repair and try to save the original panels by filling them rather than cutting them out.
Any Thoughts ?
I don't have any experience in auto body repair. There are forums for auto body that will be far more informative and will suggest the best way to go about doing what you want to do.
George Goehl OK thanks
Can the Henrob torch do everything a Smith torch can? I was thinking of buying a Henrob since that's what I learned on.
Hello George.
May I ask if it is possible to braze with an ac arc welder?
If so is there a type of rod with flux or separate flux to use with the ac welder?
Thank you.
Very nice informative videos.
Yes, you can braze with an arc welder using Carbon Arc. It has been years since I have done this so I am not a good source of information. Here is a CZcams video that explains the process. czcams.com/video/DYnsCXVsJsw/video.html
Plus there are other CZcams videos which will get you acquainted with the process.
Here is some more information: www.iforgeiron.com/topic/32390-using-a-carbon-arc-torch-for-brazing-and-heating/
George Goehl hello george, do you think its possible to weld togheter a pulsejet using brazing without making it melt when using it? A pulsejet gets around 700 degrees celcius and the rod i am planning to use goes up to 900?
George Goehl Thank you so much for that George
Fábio Alvaato Fabio, For the work that I do I use standard off the shelf brazing rods. You might want to look at some specialty brazing rods. www.weldingrods.com/ Or you might try silver solder. Depending on the grade it is almost as strong as brazing and it melts at a lower temperature. What you want to do is outside the normal day to day brazing. You may just have to do some experimentation on scrap pieces of metal. Sorry I can't be of more help. George
I've been trying to solder my leaky copper water feature but so far no luck. The seam at the corners of the copper tank are separated and I tried using regular solder with flux but it's not taking. The solder just drip onto the ground instead of getting sucked into the joint. Since it's the corner, I don't have any way to brace the 2 pieces together for a tight seam, and the gap is about 1/8". Should I try brazing instead? Hope my explanation is clear. Thank you George.
Is "copper water feature" a fountain? The copper is probably not getting hot enough to accept the solder. You'd probably have the same problem with brazing. Personally, I would use a good quality clear caulking. Other options would be J&B Weld or a 2 part epoxy. Any of these available at local hardware or builder's supply.
Hi George, appreciate your quick reply. Yes, it's a fountain, but i have empty out all the water. I think the copper is getting hot enough since it melts the solder when it's in contact with the copper, but it's not sticking. Could be that I didn't sand the copper clean enough. Anyway, I think I'm done with trying to solder. I'll try your suggestion of the 2 part epoxy or J&B Weld. I've used that before and am more comfortable with it than brazing. Have a great day and thanks again George!
Hola exelente técnica mi pregunta es si lo que se hace con cobre aplica a la plata 🤩
What does gouge to sound metal mean?
great vid !!!
i love the videos. i am still learning. as a student i have a imortent ? for u. your are u not wearing gloves when holding a the rode
Kayla, glad you like the videos. The rod I am holding is not hot. In brazing, the rod will finally melt down and then I will melt that rod (short rod) on to a new longer rod. If brazing with a heavy duty torch, then I may wear gloves.
I've really enjoyed viewing your most informative videos, George. Would you recommend a heavy-duty oxy-acetyelene outfit to us? We own and operate heavy equipment in day-to-day business ,so, needless to say, we must be able to cleanly cut some pretty thick steel when the need arises. Thank you.
If you want to gas weld as well as cut, take a look at the Victor® Journeyman II Welding & Cutting Outfit 0384-2040. If you just want to cut, this unit may be what you need. Victor Edge® ST900FC Cutter Select®. It has been my experience that oxygen acetylene clean cuts are more the experience of the operator rather than the torch.
Thank you for the reply, George. The following outfit has been previously recommended to us: Miller-Smith HBA-40300. Would you give me your thoughts on that particular outfit. Are certain brands harder to find and/or buy accessories for? Thanks again.
The Miller-Smith HBA-40300 looks like an excellent choice. Victor, Harris and Smith are the top brands. I'm sure that parts and accessories for the Miller-Smith HBA-40300 are easily assessable.
Am I right in thinking for a total noob who only wants to make small artefacts, and has limited room for a metalwork station a mig welder is the way to go? Your welding looked amazing to me, I won't be looking to do that quality for a while.
I am learning to use a oxygen acetylene torch that someone gave me. I want to repair a broken 1 inch wide band saw blade. Not sure best way , braze or to gas weld. Also it came with cutting torch only , no welding tips. Is it possible to braze or weld with a cutting tip?
Help from anyone is appreciated.
It would be difficult to do what you want to do with a cutting torch. Your best course would be to buy a tip for your torch. Depending on what brand and model of torch that you have, a tip would be between $10.00 and $20.00 dollars.
Thanks for the reply George. I will do just that.