More item info from the comments! - The damage of most thrown items is affected by the weight of the character throwing it. - After z-dropping or throwing an item, there is a brief window where you can't pick it up again unless you wait ~20 frames, double jump, or do a very fast move first. - Notes by item master Player-1! twitter.com/Player1_SSB/status/1523855110769725443
I'm not sure if I missed this in the video, but I tried skimming it back over to see if it was mentioned and I couldn't find it. But you can also perform instant zdrop by pressing the attack button while the grab button you used to zcatch is held and the stick is neutral.
There a more consistent method to get similar effects of dacit You run up to the item jump and grab the item while low to the ground and z catch it off the ground. It doesn't have the same range since your method uses tilts but once you have the jump timing its easy. Discovered this after playing Diddy Kong for to long😁.
Honestly? I was expecting this to be a casual "look at this meme Beast ball tech" But thanks for the actual item tutorial. You're putting out important in information that would be otherwise annoying to find
@@runningoncylinders3829 Basically it's the name of what apparently is a demonic possesed baseball? Basically you throw it, and then it teleports to smack your target in the face
random character specific ROBIN stuff: The items that spawn come out under most circumstances when the character is actionable, so after using a (preferably grounded move) you can buffer jump and z to get an instant item. out of this, you can throw the item basically instantly to catch people off guard. unfortunately this puts you in a short-hop so the item wont hit shorter characters. (buffering a tilt/areal also grabs them) Robin's items are also really bouncy (for some reason) so you can short-hop down-item-throw into a buffered areal (usually neutral air) to catch the item and have the hitbox on the decent. But most importantly you look swag. not item but somewhat relevant, robin can activate LEVIN sword areals by using a smash input, but you can't do that on neutral areal. using the A+B input can allow you to do just that, making robin (i think) the only character that benefits from having A+B smash inputs turned on. i know how much you like stupidly random and specific things in this game.
Mega also benefits from AB smash on for Leaf Shield cancels. Also, all characters benefit from AB smash because for some reason it lets you z drop recatch aerial better / with better range? I forget the exact benefit. I think it's a few frames faster or somethin.
Icies use ab smash a decent amount, the biggest thing being cheerless grabs, (not cheer cancel, very different things) Mainly for stuff like LL desync squall -> cheerless dthrow -> fsmash or Cheerless bthrow fsmash (the yeet)
I remember back when Ultimate came out and people were trying to figure out what the hell the new settings actually meant, seeing that stick sensitivity only affected smash inputs and thinking "there's no way that's right" what a great video game
14:30 theory: Because grab is a macro for shield+attack, they programmed leniency in the neutral airdodge startup for players wanting to tether using this terrible control scheme. (This is also likely a holdover from smash 4, else directional dodges probably would also have this property). The tether input also drops items if holding one. Since Z-drops don't put the player in any animation, this doesn't interrupt the airdodge animation like a tether would, making a delayed airdodge Z-drop possible. Edit: after testing its also possible with the A button.
24:00 (Using Banjo - high "sensitivity") For the up throw vairant: After beginning the dash throw, you must input an up smash on one of the next two frames (exactly like jump cancelling). If you're super quick, you can do this without A+B smash, releasing on frame 2 and smash up + A on frame 3. Unusually, A+B smash will work as soon as frame 2 (meaning A is essentially released and pressed again on the SAME frame (can any useful tech come from that?)). For the forward throw variant: I haven't been able to replicate it so I have no idea. (Maybe becuase my controller doesn't have notches?) Also: Inputting A+B smash while neutral-ish buffers a neutral smash (Robin's Levin Nair, everyone else defaults to fsmash). This can result in an action similar to the forward throw variant but with different inputs. Dash -> Stick neutral + A/B smash. Looks cool with banjo. "Stick sensitivity" increasing the time to press A for a smash attack allows for microspacing smashes ("high" is useful for marth tippers I guess)
Excellent video!!! Thank you for compiling all this info and presenting it in a concise, well-edited format. I kinda hate how decentralized things are sometimes with tech in this game, and I think it benefits everyone to have it in a more searchable place rather than keeping it locked away in the deep dark catacombs of character discords. I can't believe I never noticed that characters Z-drop from where they're holding the item til now!!
15:41 that was definitely the single greatest thing ive ever seen in smash bros, if anyone ever hits that in an online match, you are a god! Not only is it chad as hell using a super niche technique in a super weird way, but then comboing it into a suicide down air kill is the most chad thing you could possibly do, even for a toxic character like min min, that one play can turn you into a true legend. Like you would be the only person who could say that their min min isnt lame, and people actually believe you!
I intentionally used them interchangeably 😂 They both start with T, and I hear it both ways so often! Since the acronyms are the same either way, I figured, why not use both?!
I feel like I learned more from watching this video than at school. I don't care how obscure the tech is, if I'm learning something new about this game I'm happy. Also, Kazuya up throwing Mr. Saturn was so much funnier to me than it should be
As many people I was expecting niche meme techs, but this is actually an extremely respectable glossary of most if not all of the item toss techs. Im extremely greatful because I actually learned a lot from this!
This video is actually perfect for me since I play rosa and down b go brrrrrr. Also rosa likes to land with really late aerials because of lunar landings so autocatches are great for her, AND she also likes to use dash attack cancles as well, so I'mma have a lot of fun against rob, diddy, and k rool
Yeah, Rosa is CRAZY with attack cancels!! And not just dash attack. Like you can ftilt near an item, and make luma forward tilt as Rosa shorthop tosses it. Or uptilt attack cancel to make Luma do a strong move while you grab the item. The possibilities are endless for her especially since downB lets you get items easily!
10:35 "when this happens the animation gets cancelled before actually doing anything. netflix would be proud" that joke was so subtle but it absolutely killed me lol
9:15 Do be warned that Snake can also turn this counter back against you since holding one will lock you out of most moves until it's dropped in some way, and he can still use nikita and even a different grenade to block the throw and even set off the one you were holding.
The duality of labbers Gimr: carefully releases a game changing tech with inconsistent videos but consistent community work WhyDo: imma tell everybody the dumbest shit I can possible do, and will still put immense effort into this goal, common videos and appears for community organizing to cause pain. Truly beautiful
I might not be good enough at the game to make use of most of this info, but just the part about being able to grab items from farther away with forward tilt or dash attack is _so_ useful when fighting Diddy or ROB.
I just wanna say that jokes you sneak into your sentences are just, *chefs kiss*, peak comedy. Not obvious, doesn’t overstay it’s welcome, but snappy enough to catch my attention.
First thing I thought of when you mentioned animations affecting whether characters drop an item in front or behind them was PTSD from all the times I’ve SD’d trying to bomb recover with link because I dropped it at a point where the bomb was briefly in front of me. Love to the the Sillintor cameo at the end that taught me how to NOT do that and great video!
Thanks to this video I've found a 0 to death using only a single pyukumuku that works against every character, you can also use any character to do it: Dthrow catch dash Dthrow catch dash Dthrow catch dash jump Fthrow double jump instacatch Fthrow
The ditcit is definitely based on traction. Sonic may be fast, but he also has the highest traction in the game, but banjo has super low traction, so he can slide super far. (You probably need a combo of high speed and low traction to get good distance)
I found an application for the roll cancel item toss, it gives you access to a frame 1 turnaround out of shield for item tosses. With the roll cancel, you can btoss or ftoss regardless of your direction with only an additional frame. This makes backwards roll cancel ftoss oos a slightly faster oos than btoss oos for most characters, and can give access to btoss oos for more frame advantage to combo off of against laggier moves. edit: turns the frame when each character turns around during their roll is inconsistent, some characters like rob can't apply this rip
Wow, I was just looking to make sure I was subscribed a couple of hours ago because I hadn't seen him in my feed in a while. Thanks for the awesome vid.
10:35 "When this happens, the animation gets canceled completely before it even does anything... Netflix would be proud" Aight that's a stray bullet right there
This video IS SO GOOD! super thorough with examples, even the "useless" ones. The kicker is definitely that it's also genuinely funny, not in a meme way. very rare In these types of videos . Thanks for making this.
You’re humour is just the absolute best. Such a joy every time you upload. I don’t laugh much, but I audible laughed multiple times at the jokes and timing of them
This is why I love WhyDoBadThingsHappenToGoodPeople’s stuff. It’s the crazy, nonsensical, and in-depth analysis of obscure tech like this that makes Ultimate a great game. The sheer power of being able to get an advantage off of weird and obscure tech like this that brings me joy. Also the ability to have more options to flex on your opponent is fantastic. Thanks so much WDBTHTGP for finding, compiling, and researching all these techniques. I think I can speak for the Smash Community in saying “Thanks for the video.” It was really well done. Keep up the great work!
The thing about item throws having the same length between all characters but still coming out at arbitrarily different times feels like the result of in-fighting between a programmer and an animator, lol. One had this neat idea to give every character the same frame data when using items, the other went "wait no they all have unique throwing animations and timing that's not going to work," and they came up with the compromise we have now
13:39 I feel very attacked. Like a Hero critical hit, but emotionally. This is easily your most terrifying video yet, and that's saying something. And yet I proceed to finish these videos. Not sure what that says about me.
Talking about how the previous engine was coded weird reminds me when I learned that the jump buttons (at least on the 3ds version) were coded the same as tapping up onnthe stick. Sometimes I would hit jump and attack with the stick neutral and do an up smash instead, it was wild.
Question: is there a cooldown timer between tossing/dropping an item and being able to catch it? I assume there is since I dont think you can z-catch instantly after a z-drop. If so, does it factor in at all to what shenanigans you can do?
I tested this a lot making this video, because it definitely feels that way when doing double toss combos - that there's a brief cooldown after z-dropping/tossing, where attempting a z-catch will give you an airdodge. But my results were really inconclusive! I couldn't tell if it really was a cooldown, or just the fact that your character's positioning is usually too far from the item immediately after the drop. For one thing, if you land or reposition with a double jump, the cooldown magically disappears, and of course there's no cooldown for grounded tosses. So I ended up leaving it out to not accidentally give misinformation. If anyone here wants to give labbing it a shot themselves I can stick it in a pinned comment or make a mini video about it later because I am VERY CONFUSED
@@WhyDo There are two timers that prevent instant recatches, for z catches you need to wait ~ 20 frames to z catch unless you input another move/input such as a fast special, double jump or aerial. There is also a 3 frame window between z catch where you cannot catch with an aerial, and will just ignore it.
there is sort of a timer, but it’s a very deep technical game mechanic. search up “ZZLIC rob combos” if you want to see people zdrop and zcatch immediately in a combo, they look like rob is inflicting the essence of death effortlessly. Also the actual execution behind those combos is really really difficult
@Jake Walton Lucretio's guides are awesome! Loved them when he made them. The first Z of ZZ I believe refers to z-grab which never had a timer tho, you can always z-grab -> z drop instantly. Gonna rewatch those vids bc they're nutty.
DITCIT has the longest acronym and is therefore the most intimidating tech. Because much in the same way that useless tech is more intimidating, a more complex name simply makes it better.
You want some random casual-only item tech? You can cancel the beginning animation of the Wind Bellows, Fire Flower and Ramblin' Evil Mushroom with a dash and from there can do all the regular stuff you can out of a dash like side special, item toss, jump into z drop whatever you want. This allows for true combos with the Fire Flower and Ramblin' Evil Mushroom since you can cancel the animation with a dash after getting some hitboxes out. Most I can think of getting with Wind Bellows is being a bit of a jerk with the likes of Diddy, Ganon and Mii Brawler since you can make the opponent want to shield since you have access to a very powerful windbox, and then you fake them out and command grab them.
I was watching this casually for fun until I realized I main toon link and this could potentially be really useful to me and now i may have to rewatch it again
as an experienced smash player and also exceptional item player (yes we exist) i'm really grateful for this video. i can't wait to make the ROBs tremble in even more fear than before thanks to you🙏🏽
I found some interesting item specific mechanics last night. With a Bob-omb or Bombchu, if you Z-Drop them, you can't actually pick them up again. You can actually hit either of them with an attack to instantly detonate them. Smash Ultimate changed the mechanics of these two items so that if you throw them, you won't take damage from them. Green Shells also have an interesting mechanic where you can essentially do an easy Shelljump if you Z-Drop the item in the right place. If you time it right, you can actually regrab it with an attack as you get bounced upward.
Lmao I just went into training mode to try the explosives thing, and seeing Pikachu jump in and nair and then the opponent just fucking explodes is hilarious.
Would you be interested in covering softhopping? A technique that lets you use the slower, floatier full hops of smash 4 rather than the sped up ones of Ultimate, if you're near a ledge?
@@WhyDo It's not double jumping. There's a 4 frame window when you run off a ledge in which you can perform your full hop. In addition to bypassing the jumpsquat, doing this will make your full hop behave like it did in Smash 4, without the speedup added in Ultimate.
I swear I’ve been committed to becoming a Peach/Daisy main at tournament level for few years now and I taught myself all the float cancel nonsense but I’ve only just now learned how to z drop. Such a versatile tool and one that takes Peach and Daisy from being really good characters to incredible characters. WhyDo is right, the item controls and tech in this game are easily the deepest mechanic and undeniably the most unexplored side of this game. Thanks for shedding some light on this subject, because lord knows it needs it.
Brawl and smash 4 had superior glide tossing. It was such a cool tech and I want it returned to its former glory. I don’t care if other characters become stronger because I just wanna slide across the stage with Mega Man again.
after the grop i was like, ah ok glad to know about all of ultimates secret item techniques! and then i checked the time bar and I still have 10 minutes left. wtf lol
I think a lot of this is stuff Link mains already know because of remote bomb. Some Sillintor has on his bomb tech video and some others have looked for ways to avoid so we're not punished for accidentally doing it. Like the animation effecting where the item is dropped. We have to know this to bomb recover and he has many ways of doing this and all have something to do animations changing z drop placements
23:55 Yooooo, VA-11 Soundtrack, let's gooooooo On a serious note, this is really helpful. It might turn my Byleth/Mii Gunner - R.O.B. matchups from 50-50 to 49/51 in my favour. I just hope that I actually do encounter R.O.B. in the near future. cause otherwise it might just be better to practise slingshotting with Mii Gunner forward air instead for overall movements because nothing says slow like learning how bad Mii Gunner's air speed actually is without it
More item info from the comments!
- The damage of most thrown items is affected by the weight of the character throwing it.
- After z-dropping or throwing an item, there is a brief window where you can't pick it up again unless you wait ~20 frames, double jump, or do a very fast move first.
- Notes by item master Player-1! twitter.com/Player1_SSB/status/1523855110769725443
I'm not sure if I missed this in the video, but I tried skimming it back over to see if it was mentioned and I couldn't find it. But you can also perform instant zdrop by pressing the attack button while the grab button you used to zcatch is held and the stick is neutral.
It just occurred to me that because of slingshot, new item techniques will be found.
Hey I don't think you linked that video from The Negationist anywhere as far as I can see
@@retrorebootmusic My bad, adding it now!
There a more consistent method to get similar effects of dacit
You run up to the item jump and grab the item while low to the ground and z catch it off the ground. It doesn't have the same range since your method uses tilts but once you have the jump timing its easy. Discovered this after playing Diddy Kong for to long😁.
the unparalleled suspense of seeing a rob and a snake on screen and not knowing which one is going to pull Some Bullshit
I love how you capitalize Some Bullshit, really adds to the ominousness of the depicted situation
and then pac man shows up
@@Luna-Lux then gandalf the grey
And gandalf the white
@@Unmustache1 And Monty Python and the Holy Grail's black knight
Twas merely a flesh wound!
We’ve had the GimR tech now we have the WhyDo tech
Why do? More like why do you do this tech
@@nerothejokeemperor9563 as a rob main
@@inertiaking1 go on
@@nerothejokeemperor9563 as a rob main
*Y E E T*
UH OH
Everyone: *going crazy over slingshotting*
WhyDo, an intellectual: *DACIT*
The virgin twitter slingshot clip
Vs
The CHAD AIRDODGE ITEM GROP
no way ive been WAITING for the *man-made horrors beyond my comprehension*
Honestly?
I was expecting this to be a casual "look at this meme Beast ball tech"
But thanks for the actual item tutorial. You're putting out important in information that would be otherwise annoying to find
What is a Beast Ball? There’s not Ultra Beasts in this. Maybe as a Spirit.
@@runningoncylinders3829 Basically it's the name of what apparently is a demonic possesed baseball? Basically you throw it, and then it teleports to smack your target in the face
@@oliviahughes3158 I remember that item; it's in a WoL multiman battle. I just called it a baseball this whole time.
1:42
_and most importantly giving you a cool sparkle effect_
Ah, finally a man who understands the *important* things in life
random character specific ROBIN stuff:
The items that spawn come out under most circumstances when the character is actionable, so after using a (preferably grounded move) you can buffer jump and z to get an instant item. out of this, you can throw the item basically instantly to catch people off guard. unfortunately this puts you in a short-hop so the item wont hit shorter characters. (buffering a tilt/areal also grabs them)
Robin's items are also really bouncy (for some reason) so you can short-hop down-item-throw into a buffered areal (usually neutral air) to catch the item and have the hitbox on the decent. But most importantly you look swag.
not item but somewhat relevant, robin can activate LEVIN sword areals by using a smash input, but you can't do that on neutral areal. using the A+B input can allow you to do just that, making robin (i think) the only character that benefits from having A+B smash inputs turned on.
i know how much you like stupidly random and specific things in this game.
Yo thanks for the info! Funny thing I recently learned Banjo also has a crazy tech called "KFC" (Kazooie Fast Cancels) that also requires A+B smash!
Mega also benefits from AB smash on for Leaf Shield cancels. Also, all characters benefit from AB smash because for some reason it lets you z drop recatch aerial better / with better range? I forget the exact benefit. I think it's a few frames faster or somethin.
welcome to the nerd zone
Icies use ab smash a decent amount, the biggest thing being cheerless grabs, (not cheer cancel, very different things)
Mainly for stuff like LL desync squall -> cheerless dthrow -> fsmash or
Cheerless bthrow fsmash (the yeet)
@@FrostburnICS These words scare me
16:10
"And make them even less useful"
Yeah that's the stuff, that's the tech I like
only a few minutes in but this is phenomenal so far, love the combo of concise info delivery + very funny jokes. good stuff
update: i hate this game
It's the funi rivals man!
Muno so pog
I remember back when Ultimate came out and people were trying to figure out what the hell the new settings actually meant, seeing that stick sensitivity only affected smash inputs and thinking "there's no way that's right"
what a great video game
You can get true combo kill confirms with the roll cancel toss as little mac, it's hilarious, I love it. Roll cancel toss down tilt ko punch 😂
14:30 theory:
Because grab is a macro for shield+attack, they programmed leniency in the neutral airdodge startup for players wanting to tether using this terrible control scheme. (This is also likely a holdover from smash 4, else directional dodges probably would also have this property).
The tether input also drops items if holding one.
Since Z-drops don't put the player in any animation, this doesn't interrupt the airdodge animation like a tether would, making a delayed airdodge Z-drop possible.
Edit: after testing its also possible with the A button.
24:00 (Using Banjo - high "sensitivity")
For the up throw vairant:
After beginning the dash throw, you must input an up smash on one of the next two frames (exactly like jump cancelling). If you're super quick, you can do this without A+B smash, releasing on frame 2 and smash up + A on frame 3. Unusually, A+B smash will work as soon as frame 2 (meaning A is essentially released and pressed again on the SAME frame (can any useful tech come from that?)).
For the forward throw variant:
I haven't been able to replicate it so I have no idea. (Maybe becuase my controller doesn't have notches?)
Also:
Inputting A+B smash while neutral-ish buffers a neutral smash (Robin's Levin Nair, everyone else defaults to fsmash). This can result in an action similar to the forward throw variant but with different inputs. Dash -> Stick neutral + A/B smash. Looks cool with banjo.
"Stick sensitivity" increasing the time to press A for a smash attack allows for microspacing smashes ("high" is useful for marth tippers I guess)
brain melted
Excellent video!!! Thank you for compiling all this info and presenting it in a concise, well-edited format. I kinda hate how decentralized things are sometimes with tech in this game, and I think it benefits everyone to have it in a more searchable place rather than keeping it locked away in the deep dark catacombs of character discords. I can't believe I never noticed that characters Z-drop from where they're holding the item til now!!
"(In Smash Ultimate) Stick Sensitivity *DOES NOT AFFECT* Stick Sensitivity"
My whole life is a lie
The way you chain actual useful information flawlessly into a joke with a deadpan expression and then back into useful information works very well lol
“Press SUBSCRIBE to Subscribe”
Just one minute in, and I feel
more technically skilled already
did you just wrote your comment in an Haïku form ??
15:41 that was definitely the single greatest thing ive ever seen in smash bros, if anyone ever hits that in an online match, you are a god! Not only is it chad as hell using a super niche technique in a super weird way, but then comboing it into a suicide down air kill is the most chad thing you could possibly do, even for a toxic character like min min, that one play can turn you into a true legend. Like you would be the only person who could say that their min min isnt lame, and people actually believe you!
Thank you SO much for calling them item tosses and not item throws.
One of my biggest pet peeves in all of smash.
0:33?
I intentionally used them interchangeably 😂 They both start with T, and I hear it both ways so often! Since the acronyms are the same either way, I figured, why not use both?!
@@WhyDo yeah, the names don't matter too much tbh, also dope video so far lol. I main an item character and I didn't know most of this stuff
omg it's the ness tech person
synonyms
I never knew throwing items had a smash input that's crazy
Ness also has frame 1 double jump cancel item toss which gives him some upwards momentum instead of completely cancelling it like regular djcit
Very informative, definitely worth watching all the way through if only to learn some fun facts.
Especially since I don't play competitive.
I feel like I learned more from watching this video than at school. I don't care how obscure the tech is, if I'm learning something new about this game I'm happy. Also, Kazuya up throwing Mr. Saturn was so much funnier to me than it should be
As many people I was expecting niche meme techs, but this is actually an extremely respectable glossary of most if not all of the item toss techs. Im extremely greatful because I actually learned a lot from this!
Sheesh I love this movement of bringing in known tech, and condensing it to make it more discoverable to more smash players.
This video is actually perfect for me since I play rosa and down b go brrrrrr. Also rosa likes to land with really late aerials because of lunar landings so autocatches are great for her, AND she also likes to use dash attack cancles as well, so I'mma have a lot of fun against rob, diddy, and k rool
Yeah, Rosa is CRAZY with attack cancels!! And not just dash attack. Like you can ftilt near an item, and make luma forward tilt as Rosa shorthop tosses it. Or uptilt attack cancel to make Luma do a strong move while you grab the item. The possibilities are endless for her especially since downB lets you get items easily!
Im still in the DJC Toss and I've already laughed out loud 3 times... In a tech video. You're a Genius.
Absolutely amazing video. Will def send Link players this way if they want to learn more about items in this strange game
i'm just waiting for the first link combo vid to implement item grops
10:35 "when this happens the animation gets cancelled before actually doing anything. netflix would be proud" that joke was so subtle but it absolutely killed me lol
9:15 Do be warned that Snake can also turn this counter back against you since holding one will lock you out of most moves until it's dropped in some way, and he can still use nikita and even a different grenade to block the throw and even set off the one you were holding.
The duality of labbers
Gimr: carefully releases a game changing tech with inconsistent videos but consistent community work
WhyDo: imma tell everybody the dumbest shit I can possible do, and will still put immense effort into this goal, common videos and appears for community organizing to cause pain.
Truly beautiful
These acronyms/shorter names are making my life so much easier rn. Remembering all of DACIT and the like just wasn’t going to happen.
I might not be good enough at the game to make use of most of this info, but just the part about being able to grab items from farther away with forward tilt or dash attack is _so_ useful when fighting Diddy or ROB.
Look Gary! There I am! 26:52
Great video on covering the item tech. I enjoy how you present it in a fun and informative way at the same time
"the animation gets cancelled completely before it actually does anything, Netflix would be proud"
Daaaaamn. YOU should be proud of that one.
Bones =\
I just wanna say that jokes you sneak into your sentences are just, *chefs kiss*, peak comedy. Not obvious, doesn’t overstay it’s welcome, but snappy enough to catch my attention.
First thing I thought of when you mentioned animations affecting whether characters drop an item in front or behind them was PTSD from all the times I’ve SD’d trying to bomb recover with link because I dropped it at a point where the bomb was briefly in front of me. Love to the the Sillintor cameo at the end that taught me how to NOT do that and great video!
Thanks to this video I've found a 0 to death using only a single pyukumuku that works against every character, you can also use any character to do it: Dthrow catch dash Dthrow catch dash Dthrow catch dash jump Fthrow double jump instacatch Fthrow
4:42 I love when the screen zooms in Whydo says Ness his real name
The ditcit is definitely based on traction. Sonic may be fast, but he also has the highest traction in the game, but banjo has super low traction, so he can slide super far. (You probably need a combo of high speed and low traction to get good distance)
I found an application for the roll cancel item toss, it gives you access to a frame 1 turnaround out of shield for item tosses. With the roll cancel, you can btoss or ftoss regardless of your direction with only an additional frame. This makes backwards roll cancel ftoss oos a slightly faster oos than btoss oos for most characters, and can give access to btoss oos for more frame advantage to combo off of against laggier moves.
edit: turns the frame when each character turns around during their roll is inconsistent, some characters like rob can't apply this rip
Sakurai's cat is in the cabin on Pokémon Stadium 2's ice transformation.
i reallyyyyy hope this gains more traction i know how much work it took and i hope you can see how much we appreciate it!
honestly, an item combo showcase would be pretty cool
Wow, I was just looking to make sure I was subscribed a couple of hours ago because I hadn't seen him in my feed in a while. Thanks for the awesome vid.
This vid was great! Would love to see more of this kind of stuff, content was super interesting and the jokes/pacing was 10/10
Wow, it's been years since I've heard DITCIT.
This was a great throwback to my Smash4 Pac days.
Also the narration is on point.
10:35 "When this happens, the animation gets canceled completely before it even does anything... Netflix would be proud"
Aight that's a stray bullet right there
13:38 That is a very good point and a very good reason. It makes me wanna learn this tech.
This video IS SO GOOD! super thorough with examples, even the "useless" ones. The kicker is definitely that it's also genuinely funny, not in a meme way. very rare In these types of videos . Thanks for making this.
God, this is why I love smash.
The amount of tech and depth is absolutely unmatched
Watching you slowly lose your mind because of this video over time on Twitter is the highlight of Smash Twitter for me
theres something so satisfying about messing around with an item idk if its the sound it makes when you catch it or what
You’re humour is just the absolute best. Such a joy every time you upload.
I don’t laugh much, but I audible laughed multiple times at the jokes and timing of them
I've never been so thankful to be a Ganondorf main before as I am now learning that I don't need to worry about using that A-B Smash tech
This is why I love WhyDoBadThingsHappenToGoodPeople’s stuff. It’s the crazy, nonsensical, and in-depth analysis of obscure tech like this that makes Ultimate a great game. The sheer power of being able to get an advantage off of weird and obscure tech like this that brings me joy. Also the ability to have more options to flex on your opponent is fantastic. Thanks so much WDBTHTGP
for finding, compiling, and researching all these techniques. I think I can speak for the Smash Community in saying “Thanks for the video.” It was really well done. Keep up the great work!
The thing about item throws having the same length between all characters but still coming out at arbitrarily different times feels like the result of in-fighting between a programmer and an animator, lol. One had this neat idea to give every character the same frame data when using items, the other went "wait no they all have unique throwing animations and timing that's not going to work," and they came up with the compromise we have now
13:39 I feel very attacked. Like a Hero critical hit, but emotionally.
This is easily your most terrifying video yet, and that's saying something.
And yet I proceed to finish these videos. Not sure what that says about me.
Why do I love seeing my local in videos? Shoutouts to encore.
Godlike video as always, hella informative. The fear in your opponents eyes after you delete them with their own item is truly beautiful
Thanks WhyDo gonna need all of this for this item tournament I'm in.
10:35 That Netflix joke was so good.
22:46 Peanut has been hiding his true power all along.
Talking about how the previous engine was coded weird reminds me when I learned that the jump buttons (at least on the 3ds version) were coded the same as tapping up onnthe stick. Sometimes I would hit jump and attack with the stick neutral and do an up smash instead, it was wild.
Question: is there a cooldown timer between tossing/dropping an item and being able to catch it? I assume there is since I dont think you can z-catch instantly after a z-drop. If so, does it factor in at all to what shenanigans you can do?
seems like there’s no cooldown since you can z drop and immediately catch with an aerial
I tested this a lot making this video, because it definitely feels that way when doing double toss combos - that there's a brief cooldown after z-dropping/tossing, where attempting a z-catch will give you an airdodge. But my results were really inconclusive! I couldn't tell if it really was a cooldown, or just the fact that your character's positioning is usually too far from the item immediately after the drop. For one thing, if you land or reposition with a double jump, the cooldown magically disappears, and of course there's no cooldown for grounded tosses. So I ended up leaving it out to not accidentally give misinformation. If anyone here wants to give labbing it a shot themselves I can stick it in a pinned comment or make a mini video about it later because I am VERY CONFUSED
@@WhyDo There are two timers that prevent instant recatches, for z catches you need to wait ~ 20 frames to z catch unless you input another move/input such as a fast special, double jump or aerial. There is also a 3 frame window between z catch where you cannot catch with an aerial, and will just ignore it.
there is sort of a timer, but it’s a very deep technical game mechanic. search up “ZZLIC rob combos” if you want to see people zdrop and zcatch immediately in a combo, they look like rob is inflicting the essence of death effortlessly. Also the actual execution behind those combos is really really difficult
@Jake Walton Lucretio's guides are awesome! Loved them when he made them. The first Z of ZZ I believe refers to z-grab which never had a timer tho, you can always z-grab -> z drop instantly. Gonna rewatch those vids bc they're nutty.
You are the only person on the internet I can tolerate talking about Smash bros. No one else is even remotely funny to me.
Thank you.
23:52 Weirdest reference to a video I’ve watched before but hey, I’m all for it
This is insane. Great video, great explaination, really well made. So much in depth!
DITCIT has the longest acronym and is therefore the most intimidating tech. Because much in the same way that useless tech is more intimidating, a more complex name simply makes it better.
You want some random casual-only item tech? You can cancel the beginning animation of the Wind Bellows, Fire Flower and Ramblin' Evil Mushroom with a dash and from there can do all the regular stuff you can out of a dash like side special, item toss, jump into z drop whatever you want. This allows for true combos with the Fire Flower and Ramblin' Evil Mushroom since you can cancel the animation with a dash after getting some hitboxes out. Most I can think of getting with Wind Bellows is being a bit of a jerk with the likes of Diddy, Ganon and Mii Brawler since you can make the opponent want to shield since you have access to a very powerful windbox, and then you fake them out and command grab them.
I was watching this casually for fun until I realized I main toon link and this could potentially be really useful to me and now i may have to rewatch it again
Hilarious video, glad to see you mix it up a bit
I've seen a lot of smash videos so I can say with certainty this is the best one
as an experienced smash player and also exceptional item player (yes we exist) i'm really grateful for this video. i can't wait to make the ROBs tremble in even more fear than before thanks to you🙏🏽
22:40 We gotta show this to Peanut IMMEDIATELY. That man is gonna do some super cursed bullshit with this tech and I can wait to see it happen.
Okay all the jokes in this were good but 10:35 killed me LMAO, informative video too, keep up the good content
Oh my god, amazing video as always. Thank you whydo
Thanks a ton for collecting all this info. A lot of knowledge goes unarchived and lost deep in forums and chatrooms.
I found some interesting item specific mechanics last night. With a Bob-omb or Bombchu, if you Z-Drop them, you can't actually pick them up again. You can actually hit either of them with an attack to instantly detonate them. Smash Ultimate changed the mechanics of these two items so that if you throw them, you won't take damage from them. Green Shells also have an interesting mechanic where you can essentially do an easy Shelljump if you Z-Drop the item in the right place. If you time it right, you can actually regrab it with an attack as you get bounced upward.
Lmao I just went into training mode to try the explosives thing, and seeing Pikachu jump in and nair and then the opponent just fucking explodes is hilarious.
This was a joy to watch. God I need to play this game again.
yo I might consider giving a shot to item plays now thanks to you
Would you be interested in covering softhopping? A technique that lets you use the slower, floatier full hops of smash 4 rather than the sped up ones of Ultimate, if you're near a ledge?
I know the run off ledge DJ thing, but I've never heard of it affecting momentum before! I'll check it out for sure :O
@@WhyDo It's not double jumping. There's a 4 frame window when you run off a ledge in which you can perform your full hop. In addition to bypassing the jumpsquat, doing this will make your full hop behave like it did in Smash 4, without the speedup added in Ultimate.
Thank you, Y-Dub. Now I, too, can commit war crimes. *You have made a horrible mistake giving us this info. Thank you.*
amazing video !
now we just need the 4 hour casual item tech video :))))))))))))
I swear I’ve been committed to becoming a Peach/Daisy main at tournament level for few years now and I taught myself all the float cancel nonsense but I’ve only just now learned how to z drop. Such a versatile tool and one that takes Peach and Daisy from being really good characters to incredible characters. WhyDo is right, the item controls and tech in this game are easily the deepest mechanic and undeniably the most unexplored side of this game. Thanks for shedding some light on this subject, because lord knows it needs it.
Brawl and smash 4 had superior glide tossing. It was such a cool tech and I want it returned to its former glory. I don’t care if other characters become stronger because I just wanna slide across the stage with Mega Man again.
This is very useful information. Thanks for sharing.
after the grop i was like, ah ok glad to know about all of ultimates secret item techniques! and then i checked the time bar and I still have 10 minutes left. wtf lol
I think a lot of this is stuff Link mains already know because of remote bomb. Some Sillintor has on his bomb tech video and some others have looked for ways to avoid so we're not punished for accidentally doing it.
Like the animation effecting where the item is dropped. We have to know this to bomb recover and he has many ways of doing this and all have something to do animations changing z drop placements
What an amazing week for Smash
This is probably one of my favorite video cause he talks about cool stuff
infinitely more educational and less money-grabbing than any gimr video
22:55 Peanut tho...he got new tech to deal with his worst matchups. Probably already knew about it too
23:55 Yooooo, VA-11 Soundtrack, let's gooooooo
On a serious note, this is really helpful. It might turn my Byleth/Mii Gunner - R.O.B. matchups from 50-50 to 49/51 in my favour. I just hope that I actually do encounter R.O.B. in the near future. cause otherwise it might just be better to practise slingshotting with Mii Gunner forward air instead for overall movements because nothing says slow like learning how bad Mii Gunner's air speed actually is without it
this is the best ultimate content i've ever seen
i love it
Extra knowledge about the pivot toss, if peach does it she can grab her turnip with a down tilt
12:13 lowkey visual gags like these are my favorite
The intro lol. I am excited to watch!
This plus the Slingshot is going to turn the SSBU meta into a battle royale for the next year.
Why do I watch these in bed before going to sleep? I learn by being hands-on, this shit is 100% not retained.