Chrome Extensions & Manifest v3 with Google DevRel Oliver Dunk
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- čas přidán 4. 06. 2024
- We were wrong, Manifest V3 is a big deal. Scott and Wes sit down with Oliver Dunk from Google to dive into the intricate world of Chrome Extensions development. From dissecting Manifest V3 to exploring the evolving landscape of browser security and extension reviews, this conversation covers the present and future of browser customization.
Show Notes
00:00 Welcome to Syntax!
00:32 Who is Oliver Dunk?
02:00 Brought to you by Sentry.
03:17 Manifest V3.
08:59 How many rules can you add?
09:56 What even is a rule?
10:52 Is Google trying to kill ad blockers?
13:56 What are the bad guys doing with Chrome extensions?
15:17 Can a browser extension access HTTP-only cookies?
16:06 Is Chrome reviewing all of these extensions?
19:06 Is there a way to side-step Google's review process?
20:32 Do you see the negative chatter?
21:18 Service workers - how do do you access the DOM?
23:32 Do you think we'll see more DOM APIs in service workers?
25:58 Do you have a favorite Chrome extension?
28:33 Has Google ever explored something comparable to Boost?
33:09 Let's talk about the development stack.
35:54 1Password and Chrome.
38:39 What is the best way to debug an extension?
40:33 Manifest V3 and the web request blocking API.
41:57 Known tracking payloads.
44:04 Do you think there is a path forward that makes ad-block developers happy?
44:45 Do you run an ad blocker?
45:20 Whitelisting and opt-ins.
46:38 What's your tech setup?
47:18 What do you do to stay up to date?
47:51 Sick Picks + Shameless Plugs.
51:47 Wait, is Safari adopting V3 as well?
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I feel like I asked about all the major things: instant approval stages, external block lists, limitations on the number of blocks allowed, programmatically matching blocks. Let me know if there is something we missed. I even slammed Honey, which is one of their flagship/promoted extensions. Watch the whole thing before getting your pitch forks out, but please let us know if there really is something that is still stopping ad blockers.
Kinda silly to suggest we havent watched the whole thing. I get that some haters will hate, but I am a regular listener since many many years ago.
Have you guys tried an Adblocker adhering to the new manifest? I have and there is a noticable difference in the amount of ads that slips through.
@@marcwinner567 was referring to the people commenting 15 mins after it was posted. Appreciate the info - will see if we can get someone on from an ad blocker
Did you read this? github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/uBlock-Origin-works-best-on-Firefox
5:40 "there was an issue with that", would love more detail on that issue.
8:12 it is funny to mention performance as a reason to neuter the ad block extension capability as I'm pretty sure blocking the ads and network requests is a performance gain overall.
11:15 I got to strongly disagree, they are actively fighting ad blockers for example on CZcams fairly recently. I don't even resent them for this as it is against their business model to be pro ad blocker or at least not anti ad blocker. If they want to claim the opposite then Google would implement some ad block features directly into the browser obviously.
14:00 Around security again they could build it into the browser or promote and work with well managed ad block extensions such as uBlock
Are extensions "ever" coming to the mobile chrome browser (on android/ios)?...was this question even asked at all? perhaps google devs are waiting for the transition to extensions working in serviceworkers before launching extensions on mobile?. Great fun chat though!
Yeah, I didn't see this question either.
Fantastic! Loving all the new stuff! Excited for the Firefox platform
Wes (re: keyboards): Have you tried Logi’s low profile mechanical keyboard (mine is the G915 TKL)? I happen to have one since it’s wireless and uses Bluetooth so I can take it with me when I travel, since I love having a real mechanical keyboard when on longer typing sessions or programming while away from home.
Never tried it. I can’t live without Touch ID now though
plasmo a nextjs-like project for building extensions and it is epic. support for hmr, react and so other js frameworks and they have their own tooling for messaging between content script and service. chef's kiss
Never heard of plasmo 👀
Hi, love your content am a recent subscriber. Are you guys on Spotify. seems like the link on your website isn't working. Love your content by the way
open.spotify.com/show/4kYCRYJ3yK5DQbP5tbfZby?si=Mno0dkSCRa6B1YGEAesDHQ. We’ll double check the web link. Thanks 😊
Damn, Its not available in my region. sorry for the comment. thanks for the timely response though
So they made the choice for the user to prefer performance.
Adblock till I die
Im starting to become more addicted to Syntax more then I already was... between getting with sentry, bringing on CJ and releasing the podcasts in video form... i just cant get enough. I greatly appreciate all you guys do!!
Google knows exactly what they're talking about... but freelance DEVS are geniuses when it comes to turning the "system" around 🤧
"The bad guys" hehehe, as if FB and Google were "Good"
fair point
I think you guys should do a full episode of sickpicks! Wicked idea!
We did it a few times around Christmas! Haven't done it in a few years because I still like the same stuff I did 3 years ago haha.
You know, occasionally looking at estimated market share in percentages, I haven't recently quite thought about just the scale of web browsers. With Chrome's estimated user base being in the area of 3 billion and Safari even with about 1 billion, yeah those were with a B.
Definitely the impossible task of keeping everyone happy.
This is really biased. I expected better from both of you. Maybe get a core dev from uBlock Origin to talk about the counter points?
Would love to do that. I’m curious why you think there is bias or where the bias is on our part. What would you have asked that we didn’t? I get that this is an emotional topic, we all love and use our adblockers, but I don’t feel like we held back in the questions we asked.
@@syntaxfm
There were very much no pushback on the points hurting the AdBlockers dev community, like the removal of :
- user-defined rules
- strict-blocked pages
- per-site switches
- dynamic filtering
- external lists
It's all framed under the pretext of performance issues, but in reality it's a Chrome UX issue. If an extension is delaying the rendering of a page, it should be visually shown to less technical users, not cutting the legs of the entire extension community. It was just a very poor framing IMHO.
Yeah let us know which part is Biased, we get that Google and Apple have lost a ton of trust from us devs, but I feel like we asked about everything? Do we need a uBlock VS Google episode?
@@WesBos
> let us know which part is Biased
Uhm, the part where a Google DevRel came to the show to sell a version of an API that cuts the legs of all adblockers?
Like I said, maybe bring an external point of view when discussing heated subjects like these. Google has the monopoly, when he said "I'm so happy we all converge towards the same API framework" yeah controlling the browser engine of every other browser - except Safari and Firefox - does that!
It's no secret that Google uses its weight to intimidate others to their will, so blindly accepting the sales pitch is a bit childish.
> Do we need a uBlock VS Google episode?
I'd love that! I'm not sure if you're up for debate-type episodes, but I feel like this could be fun!
@@BiscuitTech Have you tried any of the MV3 compat adblockers? (AdGuard MV3, uBlock Origin Lite)
As far as simply having a Google dev on to talk about this, we've discussed this from the other perspective many times on Syntax in the past and this was Google's opportunity to respond to that. I get that you don't like his answers and feel like he shouldn't be allowed to give them, but I don't think we held back in the questions we asked.
What a terrible interview. Bias all the way. Google is an ad company and therefore wants to remove extensions that prevent those ads from showing -- to say otherwise is just BS. Plus to have some guy from Google say they are not, well, again, bias.
Oliver has been an author of popular extensions long before working at Google. I’m curious what you think the bias on our part here is. We’ve been getting several different sides to this story and this was Oliver’s chance to tell us Googles side. We asked straight up what the deal was.
@@syntaxfm You cleary state it -- you wanted to get Googles side of it. What answer do you think you would get from Oliver? If Oliver is a current employee of Google, do you really think he is going to tell the truth or is he going to give you a narrative that Google wants to public to hear?
So yah, it is bias. It does not matter what Oliver did better, it matters what he is doing now -- which he works at Google, therefore he is going to expel the Google dogma.
Here is a question for you. If Google was not against ad blockers, as to the claim by Oliver, then why does Google/CZcams slash and buffer your viewing experience when viewing videos? Why did Google run a campaign locating people using ad blockers and preventing them from watching content? Answer me that -- if Google is all fine with ad blockers, they would not have/and do run those campaigns.
To be honest, you guys should know this before making such a deflective and redharring reply.
I get it’s an emotional topic for some, but asking someone at Google for their reasoning on these changes isn’t biased, it’s just their answers. You can accept those answers or not, but I don’t think that makes it invalid. You can suggest otherwise and that’s great, we’ll certainly get other voices on this topic too.
Extremely disappointed in this biased interview. As a regular listener I expected so much more from you.
What did you feel was biased about it? What would you have preferred we asked?
@@syntaxfm You asked some relevant questions but you had no pushback when he went with the obvious speaking point about performance. It all comes down to this "lie" really.
It rings so hollow when the solution to the "perf problem" means that we instead should download many MBs of ads. In what world is that more performant? Ads are not only annoying, they are also a massive hit on performance. The obvious solution to extensions that hinders performance is to show the performance impact to the user and let us make an informed decision on how to go about it.
Also, I've sat beside hundreds of developers during the years, some of them from Google. Maybe one or two overall ran raw Safari, everyone else ran some form of Chrome with an ad-blocker. To suggest that this former 1Password dev isnt running ad-blockers in his daily profile is just silly.
Do you guys really feel you were on point during the interview with follow up questions ready to go? No flame to the interviewee but he is obviously a DevRel sent by an ad company to promote/defend decisions that benefits the ad company.
ok
Ok ✅