Epoxy Primer vs Self Etch Primer for Bare Metal
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- čas přidán 10. 06. 2013
- Bare metal must have epoxy primer, self etching primer, or DTM Direct to metal primer. Primer surfacer should not be applied directly to bare metal. In this video, I will discuss the three primers and let you decide which one you prefer. Paint mixing lids amzn.to/492vVqF Paint cups amzn.to/426C96E
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One of my first jobs was to paint big I-beams that had been fabricated for buildings and bridge work. The first day, knowing nothing about paints, I was given an airless and told to paint the metal, which had been blasted. I did it, and at quitting time, the boss said I did a good job, and to be there earlier tomorrow as he had a lot more to paint. When I came in the next day, he asked me did I clean out the airless unit. I said no. He told me that I wasn't to blame as I told him I didn't know anything about paint. We had to replace the hose, but the pump and gun we soaked in lacquer thinner and it cleaned it out very well. He said he woke up about 2 am and thought about it, but figured if I didn't clean it, there was no one to blame but himself.
I worked for that guy for 13 years, he was a great owner/boss.
kutzbill - Yea we have all had that experience of waking up in the middle of the night thinking about a mistake made on the job earlier in the day. Did you ever have to crawl up on erected structural steel work to paint?
i realize it's quite randomly asking but do anybody know of a good site to watch newly released tv shows online?
@Bishop Garrett I would suggest Flixzone. You can find it on google :)
@Bishop Garrett Try Flixzone. You can find it by googling =)
@Bishop Garrett I use FlixZone. Just search on google for it :)
You made the most specific video about primers on you tube. Thank you and LIKE from me
Glad you found it useful. Thanks for watching. I have a full lesson on sanding, priming, blocking, etc you may also find useful at www.collisionblast.com/paint-prep/
Great video, you answered alot of my questions. Based on what materials to use over bare metal and body fillers. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.
Great video, Donnie. I use DTM for large areas and aerosol self-etch on small things also.
As I see others saying in the comments, this is the most comprehensive video on primers on youtube. Good job and thank you!!
Glad to see you getting back to the information vids Donnie. This has always been a hot topic, thanks for sharing your expertise on the matter.
Thanks for watching and I am glad the videos help.
Short simple and to the point! Great. Gives me the confidence to epoxy prime after dipping my car that I’m documenting on my channel
Thank you for clearing this up for me. Self etching will do fine for what I am using it for.
I really like your teaching style. Thank you for sharing. I'm newb and getting ready to do my own fender flaring body work.
Thanks for watching!
I agree Im rebuilding a 87 XF Ford Falcon, I had a bit of idea what im doing but these videos are SOOO helpful. Thanks alot
Thanks for the video, really helped me make my choice
I'm attempting my first restoration and this video really helped me chose the first coat of paint on the bare metal!
What did you use and how has it held up?
@@theperson185 I parted out the car and scrapped the shell. I suggest watching some Motion Auto or Junkyard Dave videos for what they use when painting. I think you can just use a sealer primer or epoxy primer over bare metal and filler before moving to high build.
@@david929190 I'm actually doing over a semi truck frame, so im just doing my research intowhat will stop rust and be durable and resistant to flexing
@@theperson185 See Debos garage heavy duty and his frame re-spray on his cab over. Any decent epoxy primer should be fine.
if you've blasted the frame. Etch primer would be best used for new metal that is too thin to abbraisevly prep for coating adhesion. In the oil and gas piping world all pipe is blasted to a white finish and then epoxy primed before topcoat. A rusty old frame won't need etch primer as the surface is not smooth.
Thanks, very helpful.
Unfortunately there are many really pertinent questions asked here but no responses, that's very frustrating.
Thank you for the detailed clarification.
Clearly explained. Good video. Thank you!
Thanks for clearing up this confusing topic!
Awesome video man and very informative! I am clear coating a bare metal garden bench to keep that industrial look. I have bought 2k clear Matt to finish it off, if I use epoxy primer on the bare metal and then 2k clear over that, will it work nicely?
your videos are great, im grad i came across your feeds, your really friendly & easy to listen to thanks for taking time out to make them.. i have a 68 fast back i need to do body work on and will try to use as much as your teaching to get her there
ere
That was a very informative video❤❤thank you
Good info Donnie!! Thanks for posting!!
I have been putting epoxy primer on bare metal for 40 years...mostly PPG DP and then the newer DPLF. I had to learn the hard way, stripped a car to metal and applied lacquer primer surfacer...this was in the 70s. A year later it was flaking off. I like the ability to apply body fillers over it. I guess Iam old school....I have put some DTM product on bare steel but not sure how it will stand the test of time. Tried to locate the Shop Line product...that I think is a off shoot of PPG....cant get it locally....they tried to shove Omni off on me. You did a great job a explaining the the products...
can you apply paint sealant over epoxy primer ? Also i'm kinda confused but after applying paint sealant can you leave it and paint over it?
this is good tips for my firs time God bless you
Yes, this will change the color. The best advice is to spray several spray out cards to see what effects it has and see which ones you like. Some color chip books also show you what it will look like with different base colors. Ask your paint supplier if they have something like this.
I do appreciate your video,easy to understand.
Thanks Donnie. Kept it simple and not confusing that everyone else does
Thanks for your nice comment!
Thanks for your video, just wondering what kind of primer you use for rust protection ? I have used rust converter on rusted surface, then applied body filler, now I am wondering if I should use Etch/ Acid primer on top of body filler, or I can use Urethane primer as a sealer then apply paint on top of it?
Appreciate your response on this.
Thanks
Good stuff, man. Very helpful. Thank you
Yes, you can use DTM on top of filler or metal.
This guy knows his shit! I remember a few lessons learned the hard way with etch prime lol
On a surface that has rusted and been blasted or DA’d how should the metal be handled and cleaned to ensure adhesion of the primer? And what kind of window?
Great video thanks is it ok to put one coat of self 2k etch primer on then a couple of coats of epoxy on top of the self etch both panels I'm prepin have been no blasted back to bare metal I've only ever used self etch in past found it fantastic but I'd like to try epoxy on top of the self etch as a added bonus wat would you recon thanks
State there's three options: epoxy, self-etching, & DTM. How does the primer-surfacer & sealer apply to priming?
I saw your video and it was very informative. I am wondering if I can use the epoxy on a collectable loggers hand saw. I am a spray paint artist and received a request to do a cabin and mountain scene and new york skyline on stainless steel. Ive never painted on stainless steel before the dimensions of the 3 saws are 5 foot long 6 in tall in center, 5 inches tall by the handle at the other end 1 1/2 ' tall. That is the biggest one. The smallest one is 29 inches long and 4 inches center. Any kind of direction would be appreciated.
This is the video I needed to see. Thank you.
say i need to cover a welded seam and use kitty hair. Would the right procudure be scratch 36 or 80 then apply and level kitty hair,Epoxy car, then poly filler skim coat,high build primer? This is for the sail panel welds on a novas qtr panel. Thanks man.
Thanks for breaking it down so perfectly, im a beginner and still have lots to learn, i do have 1 question tho, should the epoxy be sanded before applying surfacer?
your explanations are pretty thorough, I feel I could do a proper job with the info you have. thanks.
Thanks for watching!
Great discussion. I would say epoxy primer is better on steel as steel is so reactive. Otherwise etch primer is so much faster and easier to use on all other metals. I only use Sikkens etch wash primer though..
really hoping someone, maybe even Donnie can answer this for me as I cant seem to find anything on my specific situation. I have sanded down the factory paint using 180 grit sandpaper and have taken care of the bondo/bodywork (taking those areas down to bare metal before applying bodyfiller). Small areas throughout the body work have been sanded down to bare metal. I was told by my epoxy primer/sealer manufacturer to reduce the epoxy and spray it as a sealer but It may take me awhile to be able to fully spray those panels due to cold temps here still. So my question is can I use rattle can self etch on those bare metal spots and shoot the epoxy sealer directly over that and the rest of my scuffed original paint or will there be problems?. I keep reading not to shoot epoxy over self etch. Any help from anyone would be greatly appreciated.
I've made a piece of furniture with Aluminium trim. I just want to protect the edge whilst keeping the colour would one of these work? It's 5mm x 500mm. It's a floor lamp so it won't get much abuse.
Thank you. Very good instructional informative video
can you paint directly over the etching primer. or do I have to apply a surface primer
When you say no body work on self etch,. Does that go with primer surfacers as well
Hey Mr Smith. You are a blessing.
I've learned a lot from you and I'm grateful.
QQ: I paint just wheels. Curb rash and sometimes whole wheels.
Is epoxy primer the only primer that I'll ever need?
And is there a can primer that you'd recommend for quick spot repairs on wheels?
Happy Easter and thanks in advance.
Think the best videos on CZcams. Excellent Thank you.
How do you clean the steel panels prior to applying epoxy? Do you use hydrochloric acid? Some people have mentioned corrosion breaking through epoxy. Naked hands are a no-no, but perhaps a acid application followed by water and degreaser would solve that issue. What do you think?
Wash and wipe or sand the metal for bondage with 120 or 180 grit sandpaper... Then do your bodywork then sand with 240 for final primer or high build primer then final sand with what is recommended for the paint you are using...
I asked that question a little bit ago. Didnt get a good answer. This vid realy cleared things up
sanded down some indoor hand railing down to the metal, someone told me to use etching primer over other primer because the paint will adhere better on the etching primer, the railing gets used alot on a daily basis. Other people told me it don't make a difference what type of primer, any info would be very helpful
Can you tell us a bit more about the DTM primer/sealer? I have a can of it.
Also, I checked the can and the documentation and there's no window specified. Any reasonable estimates? It says I can sand after 50 minutes, but it may take a few days before I can topcoat.
Where can I get those gloves? Very good video. I was needing to learn about epoxy as I'm doing a 56 belair. Thanks
if im building a caravan sort of construction, with spray foam being applied to sheet aluminium, what would be the best way to prime?
hey there
i just cant understand why its not possible to apply body filler to etch primer? what happens when you do?
is it just a question of "bad adhesion" or dose it react somehow with the etch primer? cos to me it sounds even worse to apply filler direct to metal since its a poros material and simply the moisture in the air would get trapped under the filler as well... in my mind you need to apply something that chemicaly merges with the metal ( like acid helps etch primer do ) or something that transports ANY moisture to the surface or otherwise away from the metal.
good vids by the way this is not critic just woundering
Im looking for a primer that will work good with GLUVIT(Marine boat epoxy)...what would you recommend?
Which one you think is the best for Aluminium and which is which is the most resistant heat. Im trying to paint my car engine gearbox and i confused what is the best for last long. Thanks and nice explanation.
what about galvanized metal? no oil primer on galvy but perhaps epoxy or etching primer is fine?
If i cleaned magnesium properly could i use 2k epoxy on it and not worry about it lifting off from escaping gasses getting though the magnesium/ aluminium?
This is my method, is this Ok?Sand paint to expose metal,(80grit) Then apply 1k etch primer. Scuff that back, then apply High Build 2k sandable primer. Then sand that ready for paint.... Is this ok?
Newbie question here...
I bought 5star #5451 highbuild 2k primer and realized I may hit some metal seeing that prior owner used mystery paint and looks like he hand rolled the paint on haha. I’ve seen the prices of some etching primers and I’ve seen some $20 SEM or Upol aerosal self etching primers. Can I use aerosal self etching primer on exposed metal and then spray my urethane primer? Will it react and mess everything up?
What degreaser do you recommend before using epoxy primer on bare metal that had all of the rust sanded down?
After applying phosphourus to bare metal do I sand the phosphorus off then apply epoxy primer or just apply epoxy over the proposed?
thats where i get confused i have some clean metal spots and black rust spots also...after wax and grease remover what should be done to the bare metal...should it be prepped or just hit it with epoxy
I working on a beat up 92 Ford F250, finished body work on the hood and applied epoxy primer. Wouldn't you know it I missed a small ding, can I apply bondo directly over the epoxy? Also I intend to apply a high build primer, how long can the epoxy primer sit before applying the high build primer?
One question which is better way put epoxy primer first at the metal before put filler or after put the filler and sand it all area repair with plastic filler then put epoxy primer on the filler and metal and after dry put primer ????????
Great video!my question is how to prep the proxy for primer o what tipe o primer and when to apply?thanks
I have a small aluminum gun part “back plate of Glock” I can’t get anything to stick … self etch scratches on it… any ideas?
Hi Donny. Which Size Tip would I need to spray Epoxy primer? I only gotten a 1.4 tips would that work ok.
Also can you spray the epoxy just to seal the bare metal, if you aren't able to paint yet?
Can you put rust converter and then epoxy? Just to be 100% that small rust spots on the chassie is protected
Can DTM be used with bare aluminum? I have a water fountain I want to prime and paint the area under the water. Can I use epoxy primer and then use epoxy with some color for a nice effect?
I have a flat sheet of metal that do not need perfection. Can you apply base coat over self etching primer thereby skipping the primer surfacer and the work to get everything perfectly flat?
I have slivers of bare metal that need to etch primed that are enclosed by sanded basecoat. Can I get etch overspray onto the sanded basecoat without negative effects? If not, how would I go about prepping these areas?
I am Restoring a classic Peugeot 404. It’s in the body shop now. Must I go to bare metal on the whole car to get a show car finish?
what brand of epoxy primer is good or is it all the same thanks
Can you wet sand self etch primer if you used it in a circular area of just about one inch long? or just sand it with with no water?
Great video Donnie, thanks for the good information. If I use a DTM primer, is it okay to put body filler on top of that, or does the filler still need to be on top of the bare metal?
Interesting. Can a spray gun be use to apply this first coat on the metal
Great info!
I'm glad you liked it. Thanks for watching!
what's a ureathane primer?, I hear it's used on metal also, seals good.
Champion I was just trying to find this out the otherday
I'm putting filler on self etch primer, should I be okay?
There are a lot of different paint companies out there. If you want to do something like this I would look over all of the technical data sheets to make sure they are all compatible with each other. At the end of this video, there are two videos that you can click for Shoplines epoxy and self etch technical data sheets.
So whats the difference between a 2k primer and Epoxy primer? It's a bit of confusion.
is there any sanding involve when using epoxy primer?
I sand my hood down to bare metal, and I did some body filler work on it directly to metal. Now , do I need to use self etching primer and also a top coat of other top primer.? I cant find poxy prime around the area where I live. Thanks! Great video
Can that self etch primer be sanded before aplying the base coat?
Great Vid,great info,thanks.
you mention the 72 hr window . If I use this to prevent rust on bare metal , do I just need to lightly scuff the panel to work on top of epoxy at a later date ?
great video answered a lot of questions I had asked in the past.
Can i just use rusoleum sanding pimer over bare metal?
No, I have not used there primers. There have been some people tell me that they like it.
What would the simplest method be to respray my e36, I just want a glossy black just like oem.
I'm still confused though. Is epoxy ONLY for bare metal? I was taught that epoxy goes over the bodywork but under the high-build primer. Also, can't you shoot the epoxy over regular primer as well? I have been doing my car in one small section at a time and occasionally use rattle can primer to cover the small area I'm working, then when I'm done with that section entirely, i shoot the epoxy PPG primer.
How much does it take to do let's say a mustang Hood?
Wish I saw this video to your go to explain everything to me.
Great video.
Thanks!
Great videos,Thanks
Or can I use DTM primer on top of the filler?
I'm one of use por-15 for my undercarriage do I need primer or can I just put it on that way by itself and maybe later spray over it thank you again
I use POR15 as a primer on rusty spots before putting on filler. It is epoxy based and is sensitive to sun. You have to paint over it.
Thank you awesome more on this it helps a lot
Analysis of Anti Rust Products
Most rust converters and inhibitors which use Tannic Acid or Oxalic Acid, leave residues, and may use an acrylic polymer base which does not allow proper adhesion of epoxy paints. These brand names are Loctite Rust Neutralizer, Rustoleum Xtend, Eastwood Converter and Encapsulator. Ok for household use but will not allow proper adhesion of Epoxy finishes.
However, Phosphoric Acid (PA) is both a rust converter and inhibitor in one. It chemically bonds rust to metal and also leaves a fine film that prevents further rust from forming. It also cleans white corrosion on aluminum and heat scale from milling, greasy finger prints, residues, dirt, etc leaving a primed surface ready for paint. It also allows welding and sanding over it, excellent adhesion of epoxy primer and paint. It does not allow epoxy filler to fill dents and scratches. You need to use Epoxy Primer over the PA and then do gap filling and sanding.
You have these issues to deal with when refinishing cars in metal or fiberglass:
1. Rust neutralizing and inhibition. Chemically transform hidden rust and also prevent new rust.
2. Gap filling dents with epoxy filler.
3. Adhesion of epoxy primer and paint to the metal or fiberglass car body.
4. Anti-rust product must be be able to take sanding, welding, adhesion of epoxy primer and epoxy paint, leave no residue.
5. Need a product that removes finger prints, greasy residues, dirt, and leave a very clean surface primed for painting.
6. Need a product that you can apply to rusty metal and non rusty metal at the same time without adverse effects on either section. Cars have some rust spots but mostly not rusted.
7. Need a product that can remove aluminum white scale corrosion (from contact with air), and any heat scaling from milling. Many RVs have aluminum trim alongside fiberglass
and iron/steel pieces.
The only product that does all this - except gap filling with epoxy filler - is Phosphoric Acid.
Cost is $25 per Quart or $50 per Gallon online.
Compare this with Picklex 20 which is the same Phosphoric Acid.
Cost is $60 per Quart or $195 per Gallon online. More than double for a brand name for same product.
Beware the high priced brand names for ordinary products off the shelf.
I would like to know the active ingredients of Self-Etching Primers. I am sure they are the same thing - Phosphoric Acid sold at inflated prices.
It is important to note that you cannot compare Epoxy Primer with a Self Etching 'Primer'!
Epoxy Primer: True Primer. This bonds to metal, fills some tiny dents from sandblastic or wire sanding. It has zero rust CONVERTING ability. It cannot convert rust to a harmless form of Iron Oxide 3 which is stable and non-rusting. It does not leave a film to prevent rust. It coats
the metal and creates a good surface for the Epoxy Paint to adhere to. It also allows Epoxy filler putty if you want to even out some larger dents.
Self Etch Primer - Most likely Phosphoric Acid. Cleans, etches, CONVERTS rust to a stable form of Iron Oxide 3, and cleans surface well to take Epoxy primer and paint. IT DOES NOT TAKE EPOXY FILLER FOR GAPS! Now if you want to pay higher prices buy this. If you are smart, buy Phosphoric Acid directly.