BMW K 1600 Super-Tourers: which is best? Grand America or GT L?
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- čas přidán 6. 03. 2023
- BMW K 1600 GTL goes the extra mile for ultimate touring package: • BMW K 1600 GTL goes th...
BMW K 1600 GTL test discussion with extra info and a bit of moaning: • BMW K 1600 GTL test di...
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I just want to say how much I appreciate Matt Durrans reporting. It's just nice to see something done by a proper trained TV presenter who can string a sentence together without having to do several hard cuts, and say something properly thought out, structured and flowing instead of the first thing that comes into his head. There's loads of great youtubers for sure, but no substitute for this kind of experience and skill.
Always a down to earth no nonsense reviewer. Much appreciate the views
I love the country music style in the beginning that right there is proper presenting.
Obviously the reviews are always great no questions what so ever😮😊
Finally!!! An honest review of this amazing bike!! I have owned BMW's in the past K bikes and boxer bikes). I've been ridding for almost 60 years now and have owned a myriad of motorcycles and have ridden and raced many. You review is spot on and more honest than any of the other reviews I've watched as most of them seem to be very timid in calling out the bike's flaws for fear of offending BMW corporate....Great job and great video!!! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Yes!
Very well known trait with the bagger too.
An engineering flaw discovered by journalists after the bike’s launch(Much like the Dyna death wobble) so on recent models Bavaria Motor Werks decided to limit the bike’s top speed as fixing the flaw was too expensive/extensive of a feat to accomplish.
Odd indeed…
Great review 🍻🍻
Excellent review! My dream bike for sure 👍
I like the speakers, foot boards, lights on the the bags and top case
I would like it if my GTL had these features. I have a 2013 and it is my first and only bike, I have really enjoyed it!!
Thank you! Staying right where I am. 🎉
Thanks for your great review and don’t worry too much about giggles behind a helmet, you are not alone 😊
Thank goodness for bmw who puts deep holes in our pockets and huge smiles on our faces, cheers 🎉
Totally agree with you on those, interesting to note that the Denali T3 switchback dual-purpose lights only do one job at a time. When indicating they stop the brake and position function and revert when you stop indicating. Same at the front with the DRL function.
I am very appreciative of your review
Nice review keep up the good work fella
I own one and my wife and I love it. Great review. If you want the higher speed you need to order without the top box. The top box attachment is the reason the limit the speed.
Hi and thanks for this very informative video. I loved your comment about the F900R. I actually took one out last year with a view to doing a first ride review but I found the bike so uncomfortable that when I watched my footage back I realised I was so negative about the bike it would not have made good viewing!
All the best.
Well I have a 23 GA and love it more than the GTL. I did do the brentune and Freedom performance exhaust, and what a difference. No more speed limit, and horsepower and torque. It's is my dream motorcycle and am in love. My wife love riding with me also!
Great vid as usual.. went RT route as bit lighter, I heard GA gets into weave so wonder if BMW thought better limit it…. Keep up good work!
Great review 👌
“Two-wheeled middle finger to motorcycle physics.” The best description I’ve ever heard. With I hadn’t been taking a drink when you said it ….
Excellent thanks.
The wobbling occurs at much slower speeds and its scary especially when you are behind a big 18 wheeler. There is a design flaw in this bike. I had one for one week (2018 model) and had to return it and BMW did not admit any fault and lost quite some money trading back to a R1200GSA (still my favorite bike). There is now a class action suit at least in the US.
Love mine but I’d go with limited over the gTL. But man i love the bagger GA. Great daily and looker.
I own a 2018 K1600b. Get a Brentune to eliminate the European restrictive emissions settings. Then you can enjoy all that the k1600 platform in America.
That top speed so it can hang out with the Harley's crowd.
My favorite thing to do on the GT with that crowd, when they want to show me they’re faster, is to let them even with me at their limiter, then roll on the throttle and wave buh-bye.
I can gladly confirm the K1600B does not have that speed limit 😉.
And indeed as our tester guessed, the floorboards are also a culprit, such that BMW recommended owners of B models with the floorboard option not explore that top speed. But you’re correct that the existence of a limiter on the GA, and absence of one on the B, tells you what their engineers think the biggest issue is.
I prefer the gtl. I like the removeable cases. Makes maintenance easier, and if I want the sportier look on some days, I'll ride without the top case.
Nice jacket bro.
Well said
Strongly considering buying a grand American. A question arises about the tail dance in windy conditions. I would be riding single up a high percentage of the time. Being said, I’m wondering if a different windshield, or removing the top trunk would eliminate the road wobble and I’m also curious what the weight of a passenger would do as compared to single up riding??? Being a NASCAR fan I’ve seen where aerodynamics at speeds around other cars can cause severely negative handling capabilities with the most seasoned drivers.
It is limited because of the front foot rests. Bmw says that after 120 mph the front foot rests will cause the front of the bike to start to lift off the ground. So its a safety facter.
Just a thought on the GA's top speed...
I ride an ST1300 and while "pan weave" has no conclusive cause, the suspicion among many is that it only happens on P models with the extra hardware involved with that model, and only north of 120mph.
Foot boards + riders legs (and weight implied by using them), 169kmh is 105mph.
(I came to this video because I'm considering the K1600 as a replacement for the ST1300, and I personally have never experienced "pan weave" despite trying to cause it)
Always enjoy your reviews. I would imagine that there will be CPU swaps done whether it's from a standard GTL or the aftermarket. PS, what did the goldfish retire from?
Haha, yes!😅
"Slow America" I love it. Both the Grand America and the B model (which I own) are aerodynamically unstable above about 80 mph in all but the calmest of wind. BMW should rename them the "Waggers" instead of baggers. And BMW is utterly clueless as to how Americans ride. BMW should be ashamed for allowing these two models to market with such a handling defect.
My 2019 did the same.... the top box acted like a sail in heavier crosswinds at speed which upsetted the dynamics of the bike..... Glad to a few years later BMW addressed it......NOT!! The census on the governed speed (125 MPH here in the USA ) is due to the top box
Three of the four K1600s have speed limiters. GT - none - should hit over 160mph, GTL - limited to 135mph or there about, B - limited to 120mph or there about, BGA - limited to 110 or there about (someone else may provide the exact BMW published numbers). It's not clear why any of these have limiters, why they are different, or why they are set at the numbers they are set to. There are aftermarket companies that will provide a flash for the ECU that will remove the limiters, so you can choose the bike version you like best, and have the limit removed. That is what I did, after test riding them all, along with the Goldwing. I/we chose the Grand America mostly for fit - it fit me/us best. The fact it was better looking was only an added bonus.
Interesting. I have had a Goldwing and sold it to buy the newer version. I saw the GA today and it got me thinking. Is the GA as stable as the GW? I need to find an honest review comparing the newer GW to this motorcycle. What are your personal comparisions
I normally don't mind speed limiters, but 167kph is pretty low. My FJ09 hits 199kph before it hits a limiter.
Like you said, 160 is faster than you 'should' be going, but it's not unusual to hit it passing people.
So does that mean, buy the bagger, then order the top box after ?
I have a 2019 GA and road tested the GTL before. I think that on any bike, especially touring models, it's irresponsible to drive at high speed. Beats the purpose... and living in Canada the fines, the risks of an accident and consequences are too high to get those few seconds/minutes of adrenaline. Risk/reward is not worth it. The GA is the best bike I drove..
Wonder if it is just the top case, which causes the instability. Sold mine because of it. Still ergonomics seem better than GT or GTL, especially when you adjust the handle-bar a little up...
Brentune wakes up the grand America and eliminated speed limiter
A GT with a top box if it is absolutely necessary is the overall winner of them all...
Wise man!
I am finding you may be correct on that…I just can’t find anything that does what my GT will do. It seems to have no top speed as I get easily to 150 mph and it rides like it’s on a monorail smooth as butter and much throttle remains. It handles dirt gravel and sand roads just fine as well if necessary…great kit
The best one would be the one that doesn't overheat at higher elevations, hot weather, or in traffic. I followed one in WY on the interstate. He was two up. I was two up and pulling a trailer with my '15 Goldwing. The BMW looked scary as hell to me when he passed tractor trailers or large campers. I feared I was going to see a very serious wreck. What's up with the wind problem? I don't give a dam how much HP or torque it has if it swerves around like a roller coaster due to wind or turbulence.
I have a 2019 Grand America. I had a Bren tune and my wife tapped out at 155mph.
Thumbs up for the Bren tune. Love it on my GT.
Looks like a great handling bike. I have heard that it's top heavy and hard to manage at slow speed.
Harder than a Gold Wing on the low speed handling, but easier than the GT and GTL. The GA is a tad lower, as is the B. But the Wing’s low-slung, horizontally opposed engine gives it a lower center of gravity, compared to an inline 6. These bikes are much sportier than a Wing, but the Wing is easier to manage at parking lot speeds than a Harley.
Hi Matt. Have you compared the GT to The GTL yet? Apparently the GT is more comfortable long distance because of the sitting position. Can you confirm this as I have a GT ( which I absolutely love, but I'm putting huge milage on it) and am looking at a GTL as a replacement as you get more bike, but if it's uncomfortable I'll stick with the GT. BMW don't have GTL demos to ride.
Grey hair and a super tourer is a good match😂
What is this “hair” of which you speak? I vaguely remember having some 30 years ago.
The GT is by far the best model for me. The riding position is better suited to the European market, where we have corners and traffic to over take. The GTL is aimed at the US market with pulled back bars, ridiculously low seat, and big, fat footrests, for sitting on boring roads. The GTL is speed limited because of the topbox, I think to around 130MPH. From some US videos on CZcams it looks like the Grand America is limited to 80MPH?
BMW certainly don't make enough of the differences between the GT and GTL, mechanically almost identical, but totally different to ride. I loved my GT, it was a fantastic bike but would never consider a GTL because of the riding position and stupid semi-footboards
The lower speed rating is due to the floor boards and top box.
How does it ride with the bags and trunk removed? I ride my R1200R sans bags unless on a trip. I would ride the same way with a K1600.
Ok, now I am conflicted by this report. it sounds like to me and looks like the same feel of my K1200 LT that I lovingly rode many a trips across the US from Chicago to New Mexico, Colorado, Nebraska, Utah, North and South Dakota, Wyoming and Montana.
And it sounds like this is a better ride than the GTL. However this Brit’s experience in Germany was a bit humbled by the auto throttle of 167 km per hour top speed. To know how a bike of this mass feels when you fly it like a jet through the mountains and curves, especially that lovely stretch of road from Mt. Rushmore in South Dakota to Crazy Horse Memorial, well there is nothing like it in the world.
I have always felt that the K1200 was the best bike ever built. My hopes and dream were that here is the reincarnation of that beautiful machine. So, ok 167 km per hour? Well ok that is 104 miles per hour. And that is a bit of a let down because, I must admit there were a few times when I broke that limit but not many.
True I must admit that going across the flat space of Kansas, I did stand up on the bike with arms straight out at right angles to my side at 90 miles per hour. And I once did go above 115 mph, (130 was the max) however I then brought her back down to a reasonable 95 mph where I usually cruised.
So, I don’t know… yes, I would like to know what it is really capable of doing, even if just for once to get scared into submission. But in Sicily I will never go that speed nor in Italy. But if I were to fly on the autobahn, then yeah… I might feel humbled. Believe me, I was never humbled on my beloved K1200 LT. Riding that bike was like flying a jet. The engine even sounded like a jet. This bike is set nicer than the GTL and I am sure that translates into the same type of riding experience one would get with the K1200 LT. It was so stable,smooth and agile for its ergonomic mass. However, the stability of the GA has me concerned. And I like those foot boards. The K1200 would hurt my knees after while and that was in my early fifties. Jpegs never cut it. I could though, stretch my legs out the back and fly like Superman in cruise control - always helped the iron butt rides. So, a good welcome addition - they were the only thing, and I mean only thing that I envied on Harley Hogs.
Great review, Sir. Thank you for giving me a few concerns. I guess I will only find out by giving one a test ride.
Whats that little giggle i hear at about 7min 54 i wonder😉
Love everything about this (B GA) but one flaw in my opinion is that it does not offer grip shifters. (BMW listen up! Add upshift/downshift hand controls linked to pressure sensors in the foot plate; as to prevent use if rider is NOT putting pressure on them!) If in the future that is added to this luxury motorcycle, then definitely it would be the real ultimate riding machine.
I owned a 2018 GA, and while my wife and I enjoyed riding it I learned that the bike wiggled badly and it felt unsafe at higher highway speeds. Overtaking semi trailers was unpleasant and I didn't feel confident being on it - there was something about the bike that made me feel uncomfortable on our highways. I wish I had taken a closer look at the GTL because the in-line 6 cylinder engine is very, very nice. Sold the GA because I just didn't feel very good about it. I believe that BMW knows something of this otherwise why govern the upper speed?
You can have the ECM flashed and it will unlock the limiter.
The B and GA are prettier, but easier low speed handling and looks come at the price of sitting lower to the ground and losing a bit of lean angle. I went with the GT and bought a top case, color matched. The seat is flat, so you can move around, and it has the most lean angle of any model. It also has a slightly more aggressive riding position. I still have to hang off for my weight and the way I ride to avoid touching the pegs down, but I LOVE that glorious engine, and will trade a little sport in my sport -touring for the comfort I need at my age.
I am riding an RT from 2006, I want to change and get a 6 cylinder, I have tried the K16GT and Goldwing touring . What is your opinion between those two? Thanks
@@DartTv974 The bikes are now more similar than they used to be, with the K1600GT holding a smaller weight advantage than before. Still, the Wing may be a tad cushier, and the GT is definitely sportier. My choice would easily be the GT, but that choice is no longer by as huge a difference. I would think the man who'd love the new Wing is a guy who'll not want to tear up the twisties, and who'll enjoy the lower center of gravity. It's why the GT isn't usually cross-shopped against the Wing, but rather the K1600B and Grand America, both of which sit slightly lower. For you, though, if you want another boxer, that makes your decision the Wing, as does wanting a newer design or very different bike. But if you want a bike with a similar sporty, but still bigger feel, you'll be right at home on the K1600GT, I'd think.
I am pretty sure you can flash the ECU
Mt old 2012 gsxr 1000 did the exact same speed in 1st gear...but i sold that beast for an MT09
I was all excited about maybe having the Grand America as my next motorcycle until you motioned the speed limiter. Too bad.
I'll take the CVO RG over the GA but I would take the GTL over the CVO would have to be 719 option
The top case makes the bike wander a bit with just the rider on it. With two up apparently it doesn't do it. So that's why it's limited to 160 kmm/hr
I have an F900r and do large distances on it.
I was wondering what your issue was, then I remembered it gets really cold up there in Europe 😅
I'm used to great, all year riding weather here in Western Australia.
Same here! I love going on multi-day motocamping trips on mine. The ride, I agree, IS harsh for touring purposes, but only if you’re riding without much luggage. I find once I load up the bike and adjust the suspension, left towards the softer side, the ride is totally compliant without being at all wallowy in some fun curves if I come across them en route.
For real though, I think the F900R is a true gem in the middleweight naked segment if you truly want a do-it-all bike you can even tour on if your garage or budget doesn’t allow a second, more dedicated touring focused option. Don’t get me wrong, I’d totally prefer to take some ADV out on tour, but ya, I’m limited by both budget AND garage space at the moment 😅
I heard it was because at higher speeds the bike becomes unstable at top speeds.
Look on the bright side, the bike will probably still do 167k, two up, with luggage, towing a caravan.
God save us Mat you think you would tidy yourself and your van up a bit. Great video.
F J R Yamaha 1300. Is the best touring motorcycle you can buy. I road around Australia in sixteen days.I raced a BM 1600 from WA to SA and he could not catch me. Also Fj is much better value period.
The speed delimiter is due to the floorboards, a K1600B without them has the same top speed.
Not even close.
My 19 K16B, with floorboards, does not have the same limiter the Grand America has. 100% the top rack.
Love the look but
A 1600 6 limited to just over 160km/h why? You would think that would kill so many sales, they just have to get rid of that surely?
Out of interest have you ridden the GoldWing DCT tour? ….now that’s a bike….
I've seen your comparison. As you so noted, you're a GW DCT fan boy. Not a bad thing as the GW is the stardard in my opinion for tourers. But you put it up against the Gtl which is more the porter version. My dad's GW rides nice but my GA rides better, to me of course. He refuses to ride my bike. Says it too tall for him.
BTW I rode with a friend on the back and you really couldn't tell she was there. It was a very enjoyable experience. I wish the height of the bike wasn't an issue for you. Your misses might have enjoyed the bike as well.
Gt only (not Gtl)
Have you approached BMW to comment on the top speed of your test bike? Seems like they should have some kind of right of reply in case this bike was just malfunctioning. That top speed is not enough and it seems very un-BMW-like given the trend of increasing performance from most of their bikes. Nice dog BTW.
I thought it was well established long ago that you were not a fan of the F900r which is why (if I remembered correctly) you purchased a MT09.
Why do you continue to ride something you hate? I can’t imagine you being forced against your will to ride a motorcycle you hate.
I have never even sat on a MT anything neither do I ever plan to. I don’t like Yamaha and I never plan to own one, ride one or look at one because I am not a fan.
Now, the K1600 is a fantastic motorcycle and is the best touring motorcycle ever. How do I know because I purchased one for my wife and I in 2018🤗
At 167 km/ph or 104 mph, you'll end up in a jail in the US and possibly lose your license. BMW should make the Top Box removable just like GTL Model. I owned the K 1600 B and never felt stable even at 75 mph. It was wobbly on the highway. With the 1250 RT I own currently, the bike is super stable at highway speeds. The RT has better aerodynamics than the K 1600 B and the GA for sure. While the K 1600 B and GA look fantastic, the RT is the better choice because it does everything better.
I absolutely agree
I would get an RT anyday of the week over the K1600 family.
The engine on the 1600 is well known for running hot and has a tendency to start burning oil very early in it’s (shorter) lifespan.
I had a '22 RT and sold it and got the '22 GA. I can't agree that it does everything better. Lack of standard power is one. I'm a bigger guy so that was an issue. Riding two up made it worse. Lack of standard foot position is another. On long rides I got really stiff on the RT due to just having my feet underneath me the whole time. I do like that the RT has more storage upfront even though my phone doesn't fit in either of the bikes phone charging compartments. It was easier to run a USB from the RT than the GA. The GA does have a USB port in the top case for other charging needs. What I love the most about the GA is the smoothness of the engine over the RT. Not that the RT is HD like but the GA is so so nice. The GA is a more enjoyable ride to me, more relaxing than the RT was on longer rides. RT is more nibble but not as much as you would think. It's definitely but at slower speed. At the point the GA's weight is very noticeable.
Well thanks for listening to my spill. Ride safe and have fun.
@@SlvrBckBlck So for folks never planning on anything faster than 100 mph you would recommend the GA?
Ever felt that wobble/instability they just could not fix?
@@BlazinBlades I rarely go over 100mph, so yes I would. As far as the wobble, it goes to the light handling of the bike so dirty air does give a bit of wobble but I've gotten used to it. The worst I ever felt was going over the bridge that crosses the Chesapeake Bay. The wind can be very harsh but with most bikes, you're going to feel it. Just steer into the wind and press on. The GA handles like a medium sport bike when up to speed and wobbles like one passing a semi. I don't get the butt pucking feeling anymore now that I'm used to it and I understand how the bike handles it. I can understand why testers don't like it but it doesn't bother me that much anymore.
I’ve got a B and it’s never had any sort of wobble
That bike is restricted and governed by speed for a reason. Regardless of the rhetoric here the bike because of its design with those elevated foot rests and rear end design can shake and become unsafe. Even my local bmw desler admits the top speed is much higher on the gt
If you are tall with long legs it is the GA.
Lol, thats good. Top speed in 3rd.
The GTL is the better looking one IMO. The GA looks like a Hardley Ableson had its way with a K1600… Yuk.
I have given you a like, but a like grudgingly, You are respected everywhere but the automatic putting this bike as the pinnacle cannot be accepted Sir, 9 out of 10 similar reviews have selected the Goldwing as the finest bike in the World! Unless you can prove otherwise!
I wonder if BMW have improved on BMW’s abysmal reliability issues.
I'm riding BMWs for well over 2 decades (mostly GSAs). and only had 1 problem, covered by warranty, on my brand new 2017 GSA. It was the electronic injection module that failed.
The boxer engine is the most reliable engine I know, and I had bikes all my life. Maybe I was lucky 🙂
14:10 that's just sad :D
Why the hell buy a GA when you can buy a GL DCT? Mine is rock solid at 133 miles (gps ). I have removed the speed limiter.
You asked. The GT, retuned to pre-‘17 fueling, will do 170 mph. YT autobahn videos will attest. No Wing can keep up in the twisties, either. The Wing is a great motorcycle, and it’s the right bike for some, but some of us need more speed and sport.
@@williambutler3630 if you need more than 133miles then buy a pre 2017 . Keep in mind that GT and GTL are safe. Grand America it is not safe. You go for tank slapping
@@MotoRiderGreece As stated, I just flashed mine to even more aggressive than ‘17 with a Bren Tune Stage 2. Got it at a group buy price on the K1600 forum.
If ever I see the term "Speed Limited" I give it a pass. Limits my options, but I get what I pay for - especially important when buying a bike.
I have to disagree… IMO the GA is the better bike. I can tach out any legal speed limit in 1st or 2nd. Why do I care about 167? I’m older and much wiser and the need for ultimate speed is behind me. Good review, nonetheless.
Exactly my opinion. Motorbike on Autobahn is not my thing. On our germany called "Landstraße" the highest speed is 100km/h. So 167km/h is quite enough. And as a "Short-Legger" I'm very happy that the better looking bike has the lower seat position. Testride the Bagger at Saturday and ordered my GA today.
the B
Stick America in the title and they will buy it.
8
It's unstable at higher speeds, even BMW acknowleges this so it's limited.
Both these bikes are ridiculous.
Or simply do the most sensible thing and buy the superior Gold Wing.
Took the words out of my mouth!
I can say, if you're coming from sport bikes, the K1600 is a great bike. Here in the states a lot of older riders have GWs. I'm still young enough to drag pegs around fast corners. 😉
I’m with Shawn. The Wing bored me to tears. The GT with the top box off is a big, comfy sport tourer with enough comfort for those of us who wore out our bodies but not the need for cornering speed.
Buy a Goldwing
That limited unknown speed limit could have been dangerous to you which in itself defeats the objective.Who in their right mind would buy such cheesy touring bike beats me.Thanks.
It is not unknown, Matt didn't do the homework before riding as he admitted. By the way the speed limit in Spain is 120km/h on the highways and the trucks are limited to 90km/h. Plenty of speed difference for overtaking even within the speed limits.
What is your definition of a highway here? In the video I presumed that you were on a two way road with approaching traffic not a motorway. I’m also not sure where except a few remaining parts of Germany where the Autobahn is unrestricted and the traffic is light you would be able to travel at over 167 kmh for long anyway. I suggest you have a look at the 44 teeth CZcams video about their Swiss speeding fine then move back into the real world.
The one reason I would not buy this bike.
It’s also worth pointing out that the reality of touring in Europe is you simply don’t need an overpowered ugly tank and many bikes with less than one third of the capacity will give you a much bigger smile on your face while you explore the continent. An overpriced pointless flagship.
Well put! It makes no sense here given the type of roads.
I'm pretty sure the GA and B are geared to Americans. These types of bikes are more popular for touring here. We do have GSAs and other types but due to the likes of HD, Indian, Gold Wings, and other big bikes, it's what we ride more for touring. Relaxing couches for two up riding across the country is our style of riding. Over in Eu GSA and other adventure bikes are the norm. India they ride small bikes. Everywhere is different.
GO AND BUY THE
K1600 B (agger) !!!!!
(200 km/H Topspeed)
;-))