Exx-003 Faraday Disk Anomaly - Homopolar Generator - Faraday Paradox
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- čas přidán 16. 09. 2018
- Today we present Michael Faraday's Disk homopolar generator in four different set-ups, with one of them being a small version of the N-1 machine built by Bruce dePalma in 1997. Electrical power generation by the Faraday Disk is a direct current or DC with low tension / voltage and high current. The applications using this power source are rail guns, billet heating and welding. There is however an anomaly or paradox ...
Follow-up videos are:
Exx-012 Faraday Disk & Joule Thief : • Exx-012 Faraday Disk &...
Exx-013 Faraday Paradox & Anomaly - Solved! : • Exx-013 Faraday Disk P...
Exx-014 Tesla's Homopolar Generator 2 - Mystery Solved! - • Exx-014 Tesla's Homopo...
Exx-015 Tesla & Faraday Homopolar Generator - The Final Puzzle Piece - • Exx-015 Tesla & Farada...
Exx-016 Homopolar Generator Brush Action - • Exx-016 Homopolar Gene...
Exx-017 Faraday Disk Paradox & Anomaly 2 - Solved! - • Exx-017 Faraday Disk P...
Exx-018 Tesla's Homopolar Generator - The Ultimate Proof - • Exx-018 Tesla's Homopo...
Exx-022 Unified Theory of Electromagnetic Induction - Full Contact Induction - FCI -
• Exx-022 Unified Theory... - Věda a technologie
Cool Experiment with some cooler results .
one thing i am curious about , i was under then impression that the Axial Shaft needs to be insulated from the copper plat to get best results.
I may be mistaken about this but maybe that is something you can try if you have not already done so..
keep up the good work.
You needed a 5th setup: the rims connected, the axle disconnected, the magnets set up NS-NS. check the voltage from left axle and right axle.
Quite a fascinating experiment.
Thanks for your comment. Induction by the meter leads, it quite looks that way. There are follow-up videos re this and the Faraday Paradox (hint: there is none) starting w video Exx-013 through Exx-018. czcams.com/video/KuK0ACNNfiI/video.html. Enjoy
Thanks for doing this experiment! I was thinking, in the case of the setup with the two disks joined at the rims; one way the efficiency might be increased is to use iron loops connecting the outer poles on either side of each disk. These loops will catch the magnetic field lines emanating from the outer poles, and conduct them, ( around the edge of the rim) between the rods, to the pole on the other side of the disc. This ensures that no magnetic field lines will cut through the rods. Otherwise, the motion of the rods through this stray field would cause a backward-emf, which fights against the emf generated from the centre to the rim of the disc.
We might be able to try this: take a look at czcams.com/video/k-j1bz_Wy5M/video.html at 6:10 we show a full metal jacket rotor - is this what you have in mind?
If so, it's not sure if that will boost the performance since the mechanism of current creation is to still in discussion. With the field lines inside the iron there are no/few field lines to cut by the probe/brush which is supposed the way the current is created in the first place. We tried the motor with a full iron metal jacket (with all the copper rings you see in the video replaced by iron, like the ones in the center) and it didn`t have a good performance. So I doubt it would work for the generator. But we can try and show it in a follow-up video. Appreciate your input.
Gotta have beryllium on the outer edges watch bruce de palms couple times just at the 1 30 min to the 2 hr mark you'll get alot of good details on how to retain the Vs
Take a 1831 Michael Faraday homopolar generator housed in a non magnetic environment, spin the magnet together with the conductor @ 50000rpm and look at the power output.
Some people claim you can get 12 volt at 10000 amps from an 8 inch rotating neodymium disk magnet with ball bearings and liquid metal current collectors but I don't know if this is true/possible.
i wonder what would happen if you connected the faraday disks with a glass tube, like in the early static generators?
🤔like vandegraff gen? do different size magnets make difference?
Thank You very much for this experiment. After all the tedious posts about free energy and conspiracy theories it's refreshing for someone to do a simple set of experiments to show what is real and what is not. It appears that movement between the outer surface of the rotating conductive disk and the contact is essential for current to flow. But I wonder what would happen if the disk were sectored (cut into thin pie slices) and multiple pickups around the periphery pulled current from each sector simultaneously and looped around to feed the current into the inner edge of the next sector in series. Might that be a way to increase the resultant voltage without reducing current? Just asking. I realize that would be rather complicated.
There is no action at the center: there are no holes (when one considers movement of electrons towards the rims and leaving holes) and there are no charges. That´s why I estimate that feeding the current to the center would not yield in anything. (It would not be allowed by the magnetic geometry.) Imagine there is a difference in potential at the rims and there is a conductive connection between the rims and yet the voltage stays up (there is no current flow - like shorting out ) because the magnetic field keeps the potentials separated.
As far as I understand it, the answer given by conventional 20th century physics is that Maxwell's Equations in a rotating reference frame includes a centrifugal/centripetal term. A static magnetic field in a rotating frame will either push or pull electrons relative to the axis of rotation.
Likewise, "static" charges relative to a rotating frame have a magnetic moment. It's mathematically messy but it ends up consistent with the non-inertial form.
So a Faraday disc is analogous to a centrifugal governor. It "knows" how fast it is spinning and around which axis. It doesn't need to look at the outside world.
This similarity suggests that a sensitive electromagnetic system might be able to measure rotation and acceleration just like a gyroscope system can. This technology exists. It's called a "laser gyroscope" and it's even more precise than a mechanical gyroscope. Submarines use them for dead reckoning.
A Faraday disc is even more analogous to a centrifugal pump or a Tesla turbopump.
For example, a resistor or LED mounted on the rotor will observe very close to zero volts. That's because the leads are also rotating within the magnetic field. If they follow the same path as the generator conductor, the same voltage will be induced by the Lorenz force.
The magnets interfere with each other slightly, but I think the big thing that's easy to miss is that there's a third homopolar generator formed by the axial bars and the similar poles of the magnets.
Their flux squirts out through the cylinder at an angle to the axial bars. Whenever flux is not parallel to the direction of motion, there will be emf.
Also, one of the things that's confusing is that there are *two* magnetic force terms to emf. One is the velocity cross product with the B-field, the other is the rate of change of the A-field. Static magnetic field (stationary magnet or magnet rotating around its axis) means static A-field, means static B-field, means no dA/dt term. But the B-field still exists, so moving charges still experience force.
Hi, great experiments, I love the homopolar Gen/Motor. The paradox you mention at around 5:20 with the outer edge bars can be easily explained. This is due to the magnetic field of each magnet continues out through the bars back to the opposite side of the magnet, this means that each South Pole of the 2 magnets cuts through the bars which is what gi es the rim to rim 90mV reading, each disc 50mV opposes the bars giving 0mV between axles. This is why it's not yet been improved on (by means of voltage multiplication with loops of wire) due to the cancelling effect of the field on wire loops.
We have come to a different conclusion, please watch our videos Exx-013 through Exx-018. Especially video Exx-015 (czcams.com/video/j19XAN7io4c/video.html) is dealing with that situation. It turns out that the current is created by the brushes (here tips of the voltmeter). But it doesnt reach the axles because it is shorted out by the rim bars. Once these bars come off, there is current at the axles (EXX-015). Thanks for your contribution.
@@scienceexxience OK thanks for reply. I'll watch the videos mentioned to see how you have come to this.
Hi I've watched the videos, very good experiment set ups and clear information. I do not agree with the reasons you give. Conventional theory explains as I mentioned in first post. The chain in video Ex-014-xt doesn't cut the magnetic field as it doesn't move in relation to it, that's why Tesla did it that way. The magnetic fields are also stationary when the magnet is spinning on the axis of its poles. The aether doesn't spin.
If conventional theory was right there would be no paradox nor anomalies.
@@scienceexxience yes I agree, when I mentioned conventional I meant lorentz force for explaining the induced voltage in the bars and discs. I don't know all the conventional theory myself as prefer to experiment and test theories like yourself. When you showed the batteries anology with the discs, imagine 2 x batteries along the bars opposing the disc batteries, this is how I think it works because the bars also cut both magnetic fields but in opposite directions. You can do this by drawing the magnetic field lines as conventional theory lines with arrows, see what you think? Do you know if ther Is a conventional explanation for spinning magnets with zero induction?
There's no substitute for the thinkers of the good ole days.. Bruce dePalma made an amazing machine that just can't be accepted in today's world.... Yet, it works on a 200 year old discovery....
There inlays the real seed for thought.. Once we can break that barrier, Science will leap forward by light years...
what is a heteropolar generator? if you segment the disc, would it multiply the voltage
At 7:30, you need to have an insulator, a separate break, in the axle. Then you get the current from the separate ends of the axle.
In video Exx-015 we do just that: czcams.com/video/j19XAN7io4c/video.html
There's one more thing to try, a jumper wire with brushes at each end running from the inner rim on one side of the axle to the outer rim on the other side of the axle. Then the power takeoffs are at the rim on the side that the jumper is connected the the inner rim of and the other takeoff is on the inner rim on the other side of the axle. The jumper enables the same current direction on both sides of the axle, thus it will rotate as a motor with twice the torque (or whatever), and give twice the voltage or current as a generator. That's with a single magnet. You might also be able to do both sides of one magnet, mirror of the setup on the other side. Nobody tried double circuits on one magnet like that before that I know of. Somebody probably did, I just didn't see it yet. Logically, you should get use out of both sides of the magnet at once to get your money's worth, right? You need a big ring or disk neo though, not those ferrite ones with copper disk attached. Better just to use the conductive neos directly.
Not sure if I understand that right, but there is very little potential at the inner rims (at the axle it is basically zero). From one axle to the other there is no tension (but if you go with Tesla's Dynamo-Electric Machine you get tension! - see our video Exx-004). In the present set-up, however, there is roughly half the tension (-+) going from the inner rim to the outer rim of the same side, and half the tension (+-) from the same inner rim to the outer rim of the other side. The only time you get full tension is when you go from outer rim to outer rim. To use that kind of set-up as a motor, we did that in our most recent video Exx-007. Hope I could answer your question.
The axle was too long to begin with and was threaded.
i know this video is three years old so i doubt you'll see this comment now but have you considered Poyntin vector energy flux equations as they apply to dc current???
The hundred year old explanation is correct. The probes are wires are they not? They are interacting with the field and generating the current. The difference of current where you tested is just because of the difference of field strength and flux line. Nothing unusual going on here.
You couldn't connect them in series to double the voltage?
Very interesting. What were the amps measured?
Thanks for your comment. No we have not mesured the current since it was not needed for what we wanted to show (and t is more difficult to do with homopolar devices - lots of amps - than with regular motors or generators).
to get the voltage between axles you need to switch the magnetic polarity on one side then it will work as expected
Hi nicely done!👍
Do you think that the friction between the prob and the outside turning rim , is a resulting of the centrifugal force of the turning disc. Is causing the monocles of the disc to be pushed out to the outer rim, causing a difference in potential? I do!
As a result of the various tests we have done and the corresponding videos concerning the homopolar devices, we came up with our own theory how the current is created. Please watch: czcams.com/video/OX9zPJvoWQI/video.html
We used a Joule Thief device to measure the current: see video Faraday Disk & Joule Thief: czcams.com/video/y77sJpQ0g9g/video.html
You are most likely measuring stray magnetic field lines being picked up by your probes. You should repeat the experiments with fixed magnets (only the conducting disk rotating).
This is the silent movie version of a science experiment channel.
What do you measure as a Current between the different points?
We didn't measure the current yet, but we might do so in a follow-up video.
@@scienceexxience I should like to see this, as the main practical use for homopolar generators is producing very high currents - if a compact device like this can generate sustained high current, it would be of use for hobbyist experimenters. The fun part will be in getting a low-resistance contact to the disc. I am also curious where the torque goes - it obviously has to go somewhere, otherwise conservation of angular momentum would be violated, but where? It is not intuitively obvious.
Also consider a way of holding the probes .5mm away from magnets to see if it is just flux lines on probes???
There is physical contact needed. Flux lines alone are not doing it. Thx
Check Gennadiy Nikolaev scalar magnetic field, and you will understand it
The magnetic field is going into the cage and the Cu tubes ( rods) are crossing it at high speed and therefore creating the voltage you measure. The field is exiting through the side dishs and creating the voltage you measure over the side dishs. Nothing strange at all. It is one big misunderstanding.
I think the experiment is wrong because the magnets move among the discs, do they don't have relative different speed
У меня к вам вопрос! Есть описание патента и схема. Вы специально делаете не по патенту, чтобы показать, что не работает схема?
Your question: I have a question for you! There is a description of the patent and a diagram. Are you doing something outside the patent to show that the circuit does not work?
What patent are you referring to?
@@scienceexxience Good afternoon. I mean, your experience is not entirely correct. Since you haven't completely repeated it. So the patent describes a split magnet covering the entire disk, but not grounded with it. The stress is removed from the edge of the disk, not from the axes. There is no current on the axes, the current goes in the patent from the center of the axis to the edge of the disk. Due to inaccuracies, the invention looks like an expensive trinket in the assembly.
@@scienceexxience And so very interesting, good video
We have posted videos (EX-013 through EX-018) with more details on the Faraday paradox. czcams.com/video/KuK0ACNNfiI/video.html
I think you're going wrong at 6.20! You're completely overlooking the fact that the tubes connecting the both rims are also moving in a magnetic field, 2 south-poles! The double current from this anihilates the currents from the disks so that the axes are zero, makes good sense to me.....
That's a theoretical idea, that doesn't match what is measured. See videos Exx-013 (through Exx-018) for details.
05:45 - Strange behaviour, not only does it read zero volt between axes and some 90mv between rims but also the polarity seems to be awkward. Axe1-Rim2 read positive as well as Axe2-Rim1 read positive, where one should be + and the other - ???
use salt water as conductor and put the meter in the salt water with the magnet in the center.
What would happen if you'd spun a homopolar generator in space where you'd suspend it in zero-g, spin it up and let it continue using just its angular momentum, and if you could somehow use completely frictionless contacts to draw the current between the axle and the disk. Will it spin forever and provide current? If not, what is the drag force which will make it stop spinning?
It will stop Spinning. Keyword Magnetic Resistance
Could be that the probes are generating electricity at the leads while the magnetic field lines get cut by the same.
Well yes, this is exactly what we have been demonstrating in various videos Exx-013 through Exx-018.
You're getting very little power out of the device because your magnets are spinning with your conductors. You need the conductive material to move through the magnetic fields, not move with them. Two magnets like a tuning fork where the magnets are pulling together and trying to squish the tuning fork together. Then spin a wheel between the tines/magnets. Then look at the voltage between the axle and the edge of the disk where it's passing through the magnets. I promise, this will really work!
Conventionally accepted electrodynamics predicts that the magnets don't need to rotate relative to the conductor.
A homopolar generator (aka Faraday disc) is analogous to a centrifugal pump. It pushes current simply because the rotor is spinning - there is no stator.
This is surprising and it was one of the last things to be explained before Einsteinian physics. In fact, Lorentz's work on this problem lead directly into his work on relativity.
IMO these generators are almost as eerie as gyroscopes - not very intuitive but they do work. The thing that surprises me is "how is angular momentum preserved?"
Because the prime mover is twisting the disc, it can only put energy into the system by torquing it. If the rotor speed is constant, torques must be balanced. So if electrical power is drawn, there must be a torque on the disc. Where's the reaction torque?
I think it ends up applied to the wires that remove current from the disc. I'd like to see how an ultrahigh-current homopolar generator is built and operated.
(A Faraday disc flywheel can be used to generate pulses of millions of amps, or so I've heard.)
try to measure the potential diference betwen ground and disks in all the cases
the next time we have it set-up again we'll do that
This is impossible unless there is a third force present, like gravity, the elusive aether. A normal homopolar will open a gateway to the aether, whatever that may be but bit works 😂 thanks for the vid.
In the 2nd experiment, If there is 90mV instead of 110mV it has to be because of current in the side bars...
What is the time stamp? (It seems there is no current in the side bars, aka connecting rods.)
Where can i get these magnets ? All i can find are small junky ring magnets
I was lucky having found them on one of these Internet magnet dealers. But it was a one-time deal. They never got them in again. But u can find them in China...
Токи какие?
Does anyone know where we can find millivolt LEDs so that we can find out if there is a current creation just by the motion itself, without the any probe or brush touching the copper plate? The LEDs would be placed between and connected to the center and the outer rim.
Found this on Stackexchange: lighting up a led with 30 millivolt-0.1 volt with joule thief? electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/205998/lighting-up-a-led-with-30-millivolt-0-1-volt-with-joule-thief
Found also this on Quora: Is there any LED which takes 10mV or so to light up?
www.quora.com/Is-there-any-LED-which-takes-10mV-or-so-to-light-up
And there is this interesting chart on Kithub: How Many Volts are Needed to Power an LED? kithub.cc/2015/11/how-many-volts-are-needed-to-power-an-led-2/
Hi, here is an idea: Try to co-rotate in the center of the double-disk assembly with outer rim connections a LED device which in part is powered by a battery (partially discharged if needed) and in the other part powered by the potentials/current of the disks at the outer rims. If it works the implications would be huge!
Maybe you wont need to? simply store energy in a capacitor since it's DC. Discharge, take measurement place the leads accordingly, spin, see if charge is accumulated afterwards.
07:52 - Here again, polarity awkward. One measurement should read + the other should read - ? Since both rims read 110mv . Maybe the discrepancy could be attributed to induction into the meter test leads?
No iron plates that brakes magnet
I see low voltage but how I can find high current? It seems even current is low. Increasing contacting points on the rim such as many brush, it does not have to be mercury liquid conductor, will increase the currents or need to put larger load? Such as close with coducting jump wire? Can anyone show me even a small light bulb turns on? May be uing jule thief?
We have a Joule thief but I don't think it will work because tension is too low. I haven't found a light bulb yet for that kind of voltage.
The Joule thief we have works with a 2.5V LED. We tested the Joule thief and the light goes on when the Voltage is above 400mV. The problem is we don`t get 400mV out of the Faraday disk at 2000-3000 RPM. We would have to turn it much faster. We'll try that out in the coming days.
A Joule-thief is ultra-low current - the opposite of what's needed here.
I suspect that voltages are so low that quantum thermodynamics becomes a challenge for at least some measurements. At room temperature the energy of thermal photons (heat radiation) is roughly 100 electron-millivolts each.
This means electrons are bumbling around inside the voltmeter with at least as much kinetic energy as what you'd want to measure. (The kinetic energy of a photon corresponds to a change in kinetic energy by a charged particle.)
So how does the voltmeter distinguish between the energy-per-electron that it's attempting to measure and its own internal energy?
I suspect the second law of thermodynamics puts a limit on some voltage measuring experiments. The voltmeter must dissapate energy through some kind of amplifier (which increases entropy and appeases the spirits of thermodynamics) and/or it must average over a large sample (draw more current and disturb the system).
Alternatively you could chill the voltmeter. That's why thermal IR detectors must be chilled - otherwise the detector is blinded by it's own heat.
All of these problems emerge when you try to miniaturize the voltmeter and put it inside the Faraday disc apparatus. Obviously the digital multimeter used here is simply using a battery to power an amplifier.
So that's a squirrel cage! Have you tried using a coil as a receiver see if you can get any induction might be the Nikola Tesla motor you're searching for. He would have made it wireless. Your squirrel cages are perfect. I bet it works out for you
Which magnetic force is higher? At the rim or near the centre?, can someone please tell me?
When using the magnetic field (lines) for creating electric current the best place is at the rim. If you are only looking for the magnetic force, then the center is the place to go.
@@scienceexxience owhhh thank you!
There's is no relative motion between the magnets Ang the coppers that why there's is no voltage difference between the axle and outside rim the magnet should be stationery while the copper disk is rotating so to cause a voltage difference to imanate
spin 2 disk opposite direction of each other
Very good job. I can not understand it. MR. DelPalma is a liar because he used mercury in copper discs, and mercury forms an amalgam with copper. I like this topic and thank you very much Friend for this material. good luck.
The volt is so small it could be generated by friction alone ...
These arent Faraday disks tho. A faraday disk is a rotating copper disk in a stationary magnetic field. Here youve bound the copper disk and magnets together - to be honest im not sure why you’re getting a voltage at all.
There are several versions or set-ups for the term Faraday disk: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_paradox
the magnets are not supposed to rotate. It's the relative motion of the disk to the magnet that creates the emf.
There is a Wikipedia page about the Faraday Paradox, which covers that: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_paradox
magnetic lines should be moved relative to perpendicular wire )))
where is it? nothing!
then the current closes to zero
no paradox I see here
At time 4:09 you show a negatively-signed voltage (-55 milliamps). But with the 'N' pole of the magnet showing on the rightmost side of the machine, the magnetic field is moving leftward through the disk. And thus the right hand rule means the Lorentz Force pushes electrons to the *outer* rim. Electrons are negatively charged, meaning you should be reading a POSITIVE 55 milliamps, not negative, if in fact your red-colored meter probe lead is correctly connected to the POSITIVE input to your meter.
All bets are off until that point is clarified. And to make it worth analyzing it you'd need to show the left/right magnet polarities on each rotating wheel, whereas you simply showed the outside poles being 'N' in the video and did not show the polarity on the insides of the 2 wheels.
Too much funky stuff so it's hard to assess.
Re: magnet polarities: at the referenced time the N poles are outside on both ends, and that
means that the S poles are inside necesssarily (otherwise the magnets would not stay in place - they would need to be glued to the disk). At 1:00 and 7:21 one can see how the magnets are positioned. The magnets stayed in that position during the whole video.
Re: tension: The goal of that video was to point out that traditional theories about tension and current have a hard time to explain, why there is no tension or potential at the axles / inner rims. All the action is at the outer rims and nothing is going on at the axles. It is therefor not so important if the meter lead was connected correctly, as long it was not changed during the experiment. If Lorentz is right, there should have been a
tension at the axles, but it's not. This is the anomaly. - Thanks for your input.
It would have been better if you explained VERBALLY what you were doing, as I am more of a LISTENER than a watcher. I don't know why so many of you don't speak, it would have been better.
🤔
scooter motor be like this
There is no reason to rotate the magnets. The voltage is created in the Cu plate as it rotate through the magnetic field. The field is not rotating regardless of the magnets are rotating or not. What you are doing muddle up what really is happening.
There is no anomaly. You just do not understand it.
Nothing special in my opinion. The magnetic disks are turning and you are measuring with two iron pins (standing still)
The pins itself generate the current in the magnetic field. If there was nog voltage it would be strange and an anomaly
My videos Exx-013 through Exx-018 are exploring that issue:
czcams.com/video/KuK0ACNNfiI/video.html