Deep Groove Milling with the Cincinnati Horizontal Milling Machine
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- čas přidán 24. 02. 2022
- As a manual only machinist, I have to get creative sometimes. This particular job is a fine example of creativity, and utilizing obsolete technology to make the parts. A job that was once done by a CNC shop, I now run these at about half the time they were doing them.
See my shop built Skyhook crane in action, and even see me screw up. Yup, even I make mistakes, and I hope you can learn from them as I have.
Topper Machine LLC is an entirely manual machine shop located in Spooner, WI. Our videos will highlight some of our shop work as well as the sawmill we built in the shop and our A.D. Baker steam engine, and others we work on.
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Great video, I just spent 5 hr cutting 1” copper plate on my K&T 2ch...these old machines do still have their place in the shop.
I used to run a Cincinnati horizontal, stamped property of the Army-Air Corp, built in 1933. Was way back during my apprenticeship, late 80's - early 90's. I would cut a few jobs on it, some 1" x 3/4" 4140 q&t clevises with a .5 slot 1.9 deep and some .5 round, 304 stainless pins, .25 slot 2.4 deep. Had fixtures built for both. I would always setup to take one cut and both fixtures held 21 parts. That machine had a bad habit of engaging the 'Z+' travel while 'X' was feeding. You could hear the change in sound and feel the vibration start and it used to make me so mad knowing I just junked a part or two, lololol. Boss was never really upset, he understood the problem and knew we didn't really have the downtime to fix it, so I was never in real trouble or shutting over it. Not many machines could handle cuts like that, but it never cared a bit. Solid machine for sure, just that dang up feed would give me nightmares, hahaha. Thanks for sharing, and the flashback to my younger years mate!
Oh yeah, we would also slot some 1.125x.125 wall DOM tubing. We held the parts in a vice, they were about 6" long and had a plug in them. We would use the machines rapid feed to cut that slot through the length of those parts, lolol. Womp, womp, womp, womp and it was over. Everytime I did those parts I was probably more scared of catastrophic failure than any other parts I did, but never happened. Was pretty cool, too bad it was long before cell phone videos and go pros, would've been fun to share! 🤓👍😎
very cool. the Ol girl is still earning her worth in the shop.
You need to make an Abom parking attachment for that vertical head :)
I like those jobs on the horizontal mill. I had a job similar to that years ago but they were 3.5 feet long in batches of 6 or more about every year or so. A nice relaxing job.
Thank you so much for showing the key failure, I have learn't something from your video and I appreciate your willingness to show failure as well as success.
thanks for sharing!
Thanks for sharing
I just started to watch your channel and I want to say thank you I appreciate you showing everything even your mistakes I am learning a lot from you again thank you for taking out the time to show us
Great video thanks for posting
Nice one Josh . Can't wait until i can get my one moved in & wired up !
I love my horizontal mill. So many uses and super fun to run. Looking forward to seeing yours up and running.
Nice job. Great machine!!!
great job! love watching older machines out do their newer counter parts LOL.
I'm impressed. I watch a lot of other machine shop videos and have always thought that everyone takes such shallow cuts. When I worked in a job shop, I wasted no time with light cuts when I could. Get the job done correctly and get it out back to the customer. That's how job shop make their money. I"m new to this channel but just love the way you go about machining. Also, I see you use the standard cutting oils like I used to use, not like the other machine shows where they use aerosol spray cans, they must be getting a kick back from those manufactures, keep up the good work. Thanks for letting me see a real machine shop.
I really like the worm drive winch on your sky hook. I use those as well and like that they can't back drive through the handle. I don't have to switch a ratchet or have to trust an autobrake mechanism. I have to admit that I made an adapter that I swap out the handle and power it with a cordless drill...
Your expertise and craft is inspiring.
I have the drill adapter too. These winches are slow, so that helps alot
Great video Josh, I love my k&t mill that was a impressive cut.
Really enjoyed this video! Thanks for the memories! Back in the late '70s my Dad got me a job in the machine shop where he worked when I was on my 11th grade Summer break and I learned a lot that Summer. Came back on weekends when they needed help, and after 12th grade graduation I worked with them for 8 more years. We had a lot of Govt contracts for Military parts. Among the various millers we had, I ran the same machine you have (actually two of them) doing a similar cut. Except the pieces were precut to length when they came to me. After they were milled lengthwise like this, they went to the second machine for a shallower crosscut that had radius corners. I could run two of the crosscuts during one of the length cuts, hence the two machines. I know, not good running two machines, but I was just doing what I was told, and luckily never had a problem all that time. After me, those parts went to another machine where the ends were rounded off, then off to the drill press guys. I never saw the finished product, but I think they went into aircraft carrier bomb carts.
We also manufactured the entire turret hand traverse assembly used in Patton Tanks. A lot of parts went into them, with a lot of machining on each part. But that's another story...
Thanks for the story. And don't feel bad about running 2 machines at once. I once was up to 4 going at the same time. Keeps you moving and makes the day fly by. Not to mention that there were 4 machines earning shop rate all at once with just myself.
I like horizontal mills. I had a kinda similar job to do on my little Steinel - cutting a slot in a square bar to make a channel section. But it was only 5.5mm deep x 4.7mm wide in 8mm square Brass. No risk of shearing a key on that job!
Plowed right on thru there!
I’ve been machining for 40 plus years , it’s been many years since I’ve operated a horizontal mill , great job , your probably way ahead of me but I noticed you used rag & shovel to remove chips which works great , we use a metal dust pan and a brush then finish w/ a shop vac , just a thought , I am a dedicated subscriber, Thankyou for all your videos
Thanks. I don't use the shop vac much. I make so many chips here that you need good sturdy shovels for cleanup. I have a couple broom heads for brushing chips off and scrapers for cleaning t slots. Just always easiest to shovel everything off the floor.
Move the cutter closer to the column on the arbor, move the arbor support closer to the cutter to prevent bending the arbor. Use a narrow stagger tooth cutter (1/2") for your first pass then you full with finish cutter....Put a drive key in the spindle... The second hole next to the coolant in the machine casting is for a arm for a vertical lifting attachment hoist ,originally you machine didn't come with the machine. (A very useful accessory)......Take a old W.W.Grainger catalog to the band saw it Cut a strip of the catalog leaving the front & back cover on, this will give you long strips of paper .001 to hold onto. Keeping your fingers away from the revolving cutters. Hang it up with a magnet on your machine. Hope this will help you on the next project....You can't get away from the natural "spring " in the steel once you relief the skin tension.
Hi another great video of yours and interesting content all the best Paul from Australia Hoo Roo🇦🇺🍻👍
Good job. I never operated such equipment, I am a mechanical person.
Nice one Josh. I love watching the heavy stuff. We didn't have a milling machine in the workshop where I worked. We did have a 32 inch G&E shaper though. Man, that was beast. It would send red hot chips across the shop and shook the place up when taking heavy cuts. No machinery underground though so it was make do or mend but anything serious meant the part had to be brought to the surface for repair or replace. Now, i have a milling machine in my garage along with a reasonable size lathe and a Myford Super 7. Still good fun though. Enjoying the videos. regards from Wales.
Nice work, from uk SUB
A lifetime supply of 1" roll pins
Always great to see the original way of milling, guessing the slot and end mills are still catching up on tye volume of material used historically.
Most likely toe clamps and peg clamps were used originally.
Thanks for sharing
I really enjoy doing these jobs. And I'm still coming out cheaper on these than the CNC shop that used to run them. There is no better or economical way to run these. End mills just struggle in these depths and doing one part at a time takes too long.
@@TopperMachineLLC I can run a 5/8" Fraisa NB-NVDS solid carbide endmill in that material .800 deep full slot at 2900 RPM and 31 IPM. Solid carbide machining strategies have come a long way in recent years
Just found your channel. It’s awesome. How about a shop tour video?
Thanks! Glad you found me. I have a 3 part shop tour, but it's outdated now. Definitely need to do a new one.
In instances where you have a part hanging off the table and your loosing oil, try hanging the bucket by the handle from the part if you can. That way it moves with the part and you don't have to watch the bucket.
I tried that first,but I didn't have enough hanging off to clear the end stub shaft cover. In hindsight, a vicegrip might have helped add the necessary length
Modeling clay, bro. That way the cutting oil goes right back into the sump with no further intervention.
@@mathewmolk2089 great idea.
I have a #2 and use oil coolant and just hate the clean up, iot's a mobil product your oil doen't look as bad as what I use, on a cut that deep I like to break down the edge in a few steps before going for the full depth
You must have really good heating in your shop -- I would have been freezing in my shop last week ! Got to say your little skyhook crane made me a little nervous .
Radiant floor heat. So comfortable to stand on.
Curious if the side wall sprung out at all when all that material is removed from one side. Always interesting…… thanks 👍😎👍
Surprisingly there was almost no movement. I'm guessing by removing the center instead of the sides the stresses were less or contained more.
ouch !... when removing or fitting large heavy cutters, if you lay a thick wad of cardboard underneath and then raise the bed to be closer it is a lot safer.
I really liked your idea for using the paper. Once you have done that on each side, do you then subtract the two measurements on the DRO to find the centre point? I saw you using the DRO but as I have never used one I didn't know if that it what you did. It was great to watch the complete process on this, thanks for sharing this
I just touch off on one side of the cutter, zero, move to center of cutter, zero again them move to center of part. You need to know your measurements before you start, cutter and part. No need to touch off both sides and calculate center.
Horizontal Mills are just irreplaceable to minimize repetitive tasks
Absolutely. I would love to get mine completely rebuilt in the next couple years. It's a very useful machine.
I would of gone 77rpm at feed of 0.30 if the cutter has 24t not sure from the video
How did you know with a piece that long that it was horizontal in vises? I see you checked at start of piece, but how about check at end??? Thx
We have that exact same machine. They are real beasts aren't they? We got a big 10" carbide face mill and it throws chips like an M60 machine gun!. We put a 3/16 shield on the bed to keep from putting holes in the wall! Just wish I had a vertical attachment like you have.
Hey, what is so obsolete about a machine that gets the job done at 1/10th the cost of a big Haas?
I only wish it was bigger. Like a no 3 or 4. Super happy with the vertical attachment. I don't think I'll ever be without a horizontal. As you know, they are hogs that produce good money if you know how to use them to their strengths.
I have never used a horizontal milling machine. I know you said your using oil on the cutter. Can you use oil soluble fluid like you would use on a lathe or doees it require oil?
you can use whatever you want. I just prefer oil for this machine.
What about full depth of cut..... Scary!!!!
Curious what you were using for coolant ? Heck of a cut.
Nasty old cutting oil. Needs to be changed.
I like the milk can behind your mill ;-)
Carbide cutter? What steel? Looks pretty free machining. Got to thinking, how much if at all does the bar change dimension when you cut that much out of it?
That's my coolant pail. HSS cutter, 1018 cold roll. Surprisingly it doesn't move much at all. I'd I was cutting an outer side off, that sucker would bow like a banana.
Do you use drain oil for cutting oil?
No, it just looks that bad on camera. I definitely need to change it.
What size of vises do you use on your mill?
They are both 4".
I would have used the vertical head and a end mill as I don’t have a big variety of wheels. What’s your reason for using the horizontal
Because I can, but really it's faster. Horizontal milling is, in my opinion, much more efficient. And I'm still beating out the CNC shops on these as far as price and runtime.
@@TopperMachineLLC “because I can” that sounds like me
Josh, are you using a non-aqueous cutting oil and is there any specific reason for this, given they are more expensive than water mixes (water being a very low cost item)?
I am using Trim E850 which is an emulsion. I run about 8% which seems to handle everything well. Water is always distilled for purity.
There is a Kearney Trecker No 2 near me that I’ve been eyeballing for a while. Very similar to this machine, horizontal with vertical head, mechanical power feed, very neat little machine. I really want to go scoop it up but the guy is asking 2800 for it and that feels high to me. But i dunno, this video is really making me antsy for this thing… It would sure beat the pants off of the bridgeport for slotting and key ways. Somebody step up and talk me into it… hahaha
You only live once and may never get another chance at a machine like it. They are disappearing fast.
@@TopperMachineLLC Good sir, your logic is undeniable. I think i have an email to send…
Hi Josh, that cutting oil u use wouldn't be steam oil would it?
It's not. That's way to thick.
Hi Josh, Nice job on the cutting of the slot, what are the parts for? thanks
I have no idea. Just make them, never seen the end use.
@@TopperMachineLLC ok Thanks
Why do you use cutting oil instead of coolant?
Coolant evaporates and causes rust in the long term if not used frequently. Oil doesn't go bad, and protects against rust
As it's BDMS....did you find cutting that keyway's caused it to pull a bit....?
🇬🇧🙂
Hardly any movement. If I took the sides off, it would move way more.
Wow... This gave me an idea for a project you can make for me in your spare time! :) I'll call you rather than wait for you to call me. ;)
Spare time? Have you not met my wife? I got no spare time. Lol.
@@TopperMachineLLC I call mine the war department. I'm lucky she allows me time to eat and sleep la full 6-1/2 hours.
@@mathewmolk2089 vet is my father in law. Lol.
LOL. Roll pins.
Make you a heck of a deal on them. Lol. Thanks for watching.
@@TopperMachineLLC HAHAHA!!! :)
Nice job!
Curious..... you did a section at 2 passes and a section at 3 passes. Where's the video of a single pass? Would my math be correct that at 1 3/4" DOC, feed would be about 3/8"?? 🤣🤣🤣
I considered it, but it would be slow and a lot of tooth load. Maybe next time this job comes through I'll get daring. Lol.
6:00 Why so slow ?
Why not 280 rpm 12 ipm
Speaking from a long machinist background your RPM is too slow for the feed rate you’re using. Double the cutter speed should work.
Thanks. I was considering bumping it up, but it was cutting good and gave me time to do other things.
@@TopperMachineLLC There’s charts that show speeds and feed rates for horizontal cutters but from experience and intuition I’d say 50 RPM would be about right for that size cutter with flood coolant or oil in mild steel.
@@ellieprice363 thanks. That's what I was thinking. I run this job about twice a year, so I need to write down my specs
1:12 tell me I didn't see you hit the end of the drawbar with a ballpeen hammer ! shame on you . don't you have a brass One ?