Muslim and Atheist Discuss Darwinism at Speakers Corner
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
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Email: darwiniandelusions@gmail.com
Facebook: / subboor.ahmad
Twitter: / subboor18
Instagram: www.instagram....
Original video is from Sam Dawah, please subscribe:
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Why do you automatically assume that an Atheist is automatically an expert in every scientific field?
And after that question, could you explain why it is that science is "bad" when it points to perfectly rational natural processes, but your "intelligent design" fairy tale (because you're special...) is "most scientific"?
Is science only "good" when it suits you? When it makes you special?
Also, next time you interview an "Atheist", actually let them introduce themselves.
I have no idea who this guy is.
And the sound is so terrible that I couldn't even hear him properly.
This "speakers corner" nonsense is asinine anyway, because it's just a bunch of backseat backseat backroom of the coffeeshop, down a dark alley, 3 km under a rock "philosophers", all circlejerking each other.
No answers from the "gods-believers"...
I'm an atheist and I'd very much like to discuss a couple of topics that where we disagree, specifically your short about old atheism vs. new atheism. I am definitely not a new atheist. I look forward to speaking with you.
These discussions are nice and all that, but y’all underestimate Victor’s contributions to the dawah… he’s scaring everyone away from Christianity week in week out 😂😂
Is that the blond guy? Isn't he an Atheist? What does that have to do with "christinsanity"?
The only Christian guy who mentions Prophet Mohamed (SAW) more than any muslim 😂
Sad children all around...
@@WilbertLek no, not the blonde guy, the black guy screaming in the background
@@WilbertLek spelling, lek.
New look of Subboor Ahmed vai!!! Looking More Handsome ma-sha-allah...
Haram brother.just kidding.
He's slowly transforming into a full blown intellectual version of Steven Seagal
A new look but his arguments still are scientific nonsens
This was a fun discussion. Really enjoyed it, MashaAllah
Я преследую за вами 😅
we need a tradiction to arabic . Allah bless you Ahmed Sbour
Really enjoyed the discussion, especially the arguments put forward by Ust.Subboor, so much can be built upon this discussion, especially the notion that atheism cannot and does not have the intellectual foundations to explain our rational faculties
In this discussion, the atheist clearly showcased the limitations which atheism and Darwinism face when it comes to explaining rationality as well as the intelligibility of nature/universe
If the atheist were to take the line of reasoning that rationality is a byproduct of Darwinian evolution, then they fall into the famous “evolutionary argument against naturalism” proposed by Plantinga
Furthermore, even without using the above argument (as it can be tedious), the simple Lennexion argument of why it is that the universe is intelligible to us in the first place has been unanswered by atheists since time began
Ust.Subboor did a brilliant job in making subtle remarks to these points, and the atheist had no answer
Lmao plantingas idea that our brains haven’t evolved for rationality is empirically false given studies done by the Rutgers university and many others by evolutionary psychologists Steven Pinker and Buss show that rationality and an objective perception of reality benefits our survival rate. Others such as Michael Shermer also debunked this by demonstrating common perception with other animals who we can see have adapted behaviour or physical characteristics to increase their survival rate which demonstrates an accurate perception of reality.
Even the Plantinga admits his theory isn’t based on ‘empirical findings but deductive thinking’
Suboor is a scientific nitwit.
Usual nonsense. Atheism isn't a world view, or even a philosophy, it's just a rejection of the evidence presented for a God. Therefore it was no requirement to explain anything. Theists pretend its a 'religion' because they know full well the burden of proof falls on them, and they have nothing beyond semantics to back up their claims so divert with attacks on atheism.
11:18
"Uncertainty is a brave position " Are you CERTAIN about that?
If people turn their backs and don’t pay attention to the screaming man, eventually he will stop screaming. Don’t look at him, don’t speak to him, just ignore him completely and he will go away. It can’t be that hard. Don’t feed his delusions.
That only applies to sane people. The insane will carry on and are not self aware enough to care if they are being ignored
Lol I hope so. I keep getting distracted by his screams. How is he not a meme by now? 😅
You are talking about nitwit Suboor, I presume?
The Christian lunatic just ruined the whole thing.
I literally find it impossible to follow what this seems to be a very interesting conversation.
Shame.
You should debate an atheist nietzschean right winger who is consistant with his beliefs unlike liberal atheists.
Good discussion. Enjoyed Victor's debate with Mohammed Hijab as well a while back
Subboor is knowledge is not only the weapon here but his demeanor's is also
Theory:
A body of facts explaining the interaction between said facts, based on tested hypotheses.
"Clothes become wet when rained on."
It’s an experience
Don't atheists believe life poofed into existence by some magical "unknown" process? Yet after thousands of attempts by athiest scientists & billions spent in super sterile multi billion dollar labs. These atheists can't even produce 0.001% part of a single cell, let alone a fully functioning living cell or an ant. But their darwinian fairy tale claims chemicals somehow fell together in a violent primordial earth to create life. It seems that the darwinist myth claims that that goo was smarter than all humans that have ever lived combined lol.
As a biology teacher myself from Pakistan, it's insanely stupid to deny evolution through natural selection without scientific backing.
YOU are a scientist, Suboor is a scientific nitwit.
As a biology teacher you should know that protein formation anihilate macro and gradual evolution.. Cause all of his organs were needed at the same time.. Same with Cambrian explosion.. Evolution is real but macro evolution is a lie spread by darwinists.. Also 99% of mutations are negative or neutral, never positive.. Also the golden number wich is the perfect ratio we could find everywhere in humans, animals, plants, minerals etc.. 1.618 the signature of our creator.. Natural selection does not have any creative power ! It can't create new kind and we never observed it and will never do.. Darwin was a famous free mason, they create Darwinism to make people forget about God, but the funny thing is thoses who sold Darwinism to the world were believers.. Luck does not have any creative power or any adjustement power.. Life can't came from nothingness, something non existant can''t create life, all has to start with a creative Will ! outside the space and time.. Infinite regression make 0 sens !
Faisal seems very learned Mashallah.
Assalamu alykum wa rahmatullahi wa ta'ala wa baraktuh brother, at 18:13 I think it is called Lapiz Lazuli?
Mahadsanid wll ilah hakaa a awaal Mariyo qeerka aa noosoo gud bineysid hana kuu siyaadiyo cilmigaaga aamiin
The Atheist can explain the human evolutionary process in the same way Atheists will say chillis evolved to deter animals from eating them, while saying fruits evolved to taste nice so animals can eat them and help spread the seed.
It's all guess work.
You really think you are making any sense in this argument of yours ?!
@@zorba9660 yes
@Gil Yair cool story bro
@Gil Yair I appreciate the comment.
I only dismiss some evolutionary stories because they derive from pure conjecture without making it clear that these are pure assumptions that don't come from observations like other evolutionary processes.
I'm not rejecting micro evolution. But conjuring up "stories" to make evolution fit every possible creation ... without highlighting the caveat that it is pure assumption. It COULD be right, but its still a guess.
Similar to the nonsense of "random mutation", which is just a fancy way of saying "we don't know" ... which is ok to admit.
@Gil Yair Yes we do know a lot, but the point is the added assumptions which are thrown in where we don't know, yet state them as facts by avoiding saying that we assume many things.
Depending on the type of macro evolution, yes it is micro evolution with many gaps / jumps. And again like I said. Filling those gaps of knowledge with assumptions.
The gesture of presenting the tea from brother Subbor and Ali Dawah was amazing
Subboor is a very smart guy and a very good example of how people should speak and behave on Speakers Corner.
Subboor is the biggest scientific idiot EVER
@@gustgoris8009
Least sane atheist be like... go and debate him if you are brave.
Suboor is a scientific nitwit.
atheist just talking a bunch of nothing, dont think he himself understands what his saying
That’s the reason Muslims prefer to live in atheists majority democratic European instead of their sharia loving Islamic countries…bhai 26 million Muslims ran away from their Islamic countries and prefer to live with Jews, Christians and atheists in Europe, USA and Canada…because Islamic countries can’t give food, shelter and jobs to the over breeding population of Muslims…bhai instead of doing dawah in Europe and trying to convert people to the ideology, cult,culture,morality which kept millions of Muslims illiterate, backward and poor and made them migrate to the west,it’s better to live peacefully and not to make these beautiful progression countries go back into the regressive ,illiteracy and backward countries
@@Hitchens-k9s its ok mate the internet is there for all of us and it allows you to express the evil and hate in your heart toward us anonymously.
May Allah cleanse the evil and hatred in your heart.
Goodluck with life and death!
@@monkearmy2439 he’s a Hindu… can you imagine a Hindu of all people speaking about morals, history of advancements & backwardness. Lol…
@@Hitchens-k9s we have been commanded to go out & seek provisions , if there are better options available in non-Muslim countries then we should go there & live better life but without compromising our faith . It is good to go to a non-Muslim country for work & at the same time convert them.
You must stop assuming that being a Muslim country means wealth & prosperity , a country can be Muslim majority but poor at the same time.
You must also stop assuming that leaving a Muslim country & going to a non-Muslim country means a person has changed his religion.
He wants work & better life not to change his religion, if that was the case then there wouldn't be Muslims in non-Muslims countries today.
We sometimes deliberately go to a non - Muslim country to convert them & teach the our religion , our aim is to bring all of the mankind to worship one true God , we wana teach them why stones, sun, moon, animals, humans can't be gods.
@@monkearmy2439 no bhai I don’t hate anyone,it’s just a civilised discussion,I don’t abuse anyones religion or god…e enjoy healthy discussions with everyone maintaining decency and decorum….peace bhai
Feysal and saboor you 2 are in perfect flow mashAllah
Is feysal had a chanel in you tube or account my brother💐
جزاكم الله خيرا
Lapiz lazuli is the name of the stone on Suboors ring
If we do everything in groups to increase our chances of survival, why is there competition between groups? Why not be one human group?
If everybody became Muslim then the problem would be solved. But which Muslim group should we belong to? Wahabi or Sunni or Shia or Ahmadiyya? Or maybe we should all be atheists, but which atheist group should we belong to, Atheism+, woke atheism, new atheism, old atheism, Freethought Bogs atheism?
@@peterjames37 there is only one Islam. The Islam of the prophet and his companions. Shia an ahmadiyya go directly against the Quran and are historically contradictory to what we know from earliest Muslims. They are not Islam.
@@IngramSnake But Shia and Ahmadiyya say that there way is the true way. Why should anybody believe in something different from them. But that's my point. Turkish Islam is also different to Egyptian Islam which is different from Indonesian Islam which is different from Saudi Islam. Even Saudi's say that only they are the true Muslims.
for resources, groups who are at least somewhat aggressive have a better chance to survive than groups who are completely passive. Aggression also helps withing a group, it allows for you to defends yourself against other members and also gather the resources you need for your survival. Competiton also exists because of human social desires, humans compete for mates and social status because it guarantees mates and resources.
I'm not sure brother if I see your line of reasoning.
Random mutation and natural selection sound capable of explaining the access mental capability of humans, to me at least.
A random mutation would only be filtered out if it contributes to less survivability of the individuals. So a random mutation that would lead to our capability to ask existential questions, would not necessarily lead to the creature not surviving.
Specially after tool making and invention of fire much of what lead to human success rate were diseases more than anything else. Which kinda means genetic variation, only being different, is the best way of surviving, even if that would hinder your survivability in another dimension.
I get what Ahmad is saying. On the biological tree you can’t build a rocket and only use it to go cross continent. It’s purely inefficient, which evolution claims nature is inclined to stamp out.
Similarly why has humanity from its conception invest its biological points -despite its habitat or environment- on such a high intellect. Something you wouldn’t need in the deserts of Arabia, where snakes and scorpions linger. The Forests of Europe, where beast like bears wander. The tundra of Asia where Wolves and Winged Predators are hunters.
And why does human beings giving on their biological impulses often hinder them in the long term? If not for mysterious(maybe even divine) design…
the high intellect evolved in one environment and spread out to other environments with the migrations of humans. High intellect allows for better problem-solving skills, the construction of tools, the creation of warm cloths, and the use of fire. there are obvious advantages to having a high intellect.
but you understand it would be beneficial in these environments?
what biological impulses do you mean?
how many animal species live in groups?... it's not like humans are the only ones lol.
Do you see any of these species, discussing morality / virtues / truths / purpose?
When was the last time you came across an ant that was going through existential crisis and wanted to commit suicide? Never.
End of discussion. Lol.
Do you see any of these species, discussing morality / virtues /........."
Animas Follow Their Instinct.
Because of Evolution Our Brains Have Become Complex.
@@srnp0007 the question is, why are humans the only species out of all of other animals, that developed complex brains?
The proposition that strobo is trying to put forth, is that because we live in groups and we need each other, therefor we developed high intellect and language and articulation etc.
The counter-argument, is that nearly all other animals ALSO live in groups, yet none of them are as developed as we are.
Not one single animal contemplate their existence / discuss morality / virtues and go through depressions and existential crisis like us.
Not one animal contemplate the universe in search for high level of truths, that are not really conducive to their survival.
etc etc
So the argument "because we live in groups" is incorrect. Simple.
The argument that subboor is trying to make, which to be fair is a fair argument, is that "IF our brains developed way beyond our survival needs" from an evolution perspective compared to other animals, the crux of the matter then becomes, "WHY" did that happen?
@@jadhajali2804 :-
only species out of all of other animals, that developed complex brains......?"
Mutations Are responsible For Such Rapid Transformations.
The proposition that strobo is trying to put forth........."
Lets Not Discuss Opinions . There Could Be Millions of Opinions on This Issue.
is that nearly all other animals ALSO live in group........"
Living in a Group increases the chance of Survival . It Has Nothing to Do With Intelligence.
"WHY" did that happen.......?
We May Or May Not Find The Answer.
But If You Apply Logic & Use The Available Facts Then We Can Say That "Mutations" Are Responsible For The increase in Intelligence .
@@srnp0007 You do realize the probability you're working with if your argument is that random mutation is the cause of this complex brain of ours...
Last I checked, it was so ridiculously low / close to impossible, that I really am baffled by why people accept it rather than the existence of a designer who is overseeing things and designing them, rather than sheer chance.
@@jadhajali2804 :-
the existence of a designer who is overseeing things........"
My Friend , You Are Getting Me Wrong.
I Am A Deist Hindi. I Believe in God.
A God Who Only Initiates The Creation & Then Do Not interfere in The Daily Activity of Its Creations or Creations (I Meant Multi-Verse)
Will anyone call an ambulance for Victor?
That christian shouting in the background is acting as a spoiler of this interesting discussion.
ماشاء الله صبور برادر
I would like to share with you my understanding of the narrative of the creation of human being in the quran. First let me share the verses that speaks about this topic then I comment on it. Hoping that will clear the picture for you.
In the name of God, the Gracious, the Merciful
Chapter 2
When your Lord said to the angels, “I am placing a successor on earth.” They said, “Will You place in it someone who will cause corruption in it and shed blood, while we declare Your praises and sanctify You?” He said, “I know what you do not know.”
31. And He taught Adam the names, all of them; then he presented them to the angels, and said, “Tell Me the names of these, if you are sincere.”
32. They said, “Glory be to You! We have no knowledge except what You have taught us. It is you who are the Knowledgeable, the Wise.”
33. He said, “O Adam, tell them their names.” And when he told them their names, He said, “Did I not tell you that I know the secrets of the heavens and the earth, and that I know what you reveal and what you conceal?”
34. And We said to the angels, “Bow down to Adam.” They bowed down, except for Satan. He refused, was arrogant, and was one of the disbelievers.
35. We said, “O Adam, inhabit the Garden, you and your spouse, and eat from it freely as you please, but do not approach this tree, lest you become wrongdoers.”
36. But Satan caused them to slip from it, and caused them to depart the state they were in. We said, “Go down, some of you enemies of one another. And you will have residence on earth, and enjoyment for a while.”
37. Then Adam received words from his Lord, so He relented towards him. He is the Relenting, the Merciful.
38. We said, “Go down from it, all of you. Yet whenever guidance comes to you from Me, then whoever follows My guidance-they have nothing to fear, nor shall they grieve.
Chapter 4,
1. O people! Fear your Lord, who created you from a single soul, and created from it its mate, and propagated from them many men and women. And revere God whom you ask about, and the parents. Surely, God is Watchful over you.
Chapter 6,
2. It is He Who created you from clay, then decided a term-a term determined by Him. Yet you doubt.
chapter 15,
26. We created the human being from clay, from molded mud.
27. And the jinn We created before, from piercing fire.
28. Your Lord said to the angels, “I am creating a human being from clay, from molded mud.”
29. “When I have formed him, and breathed into him of My spirit, fall down prostrating before him.”
Chapter 21,
30. Do the disbelievers not see that the heavens and the earth were one mass, and We tore them apart? And We made from water every living thing. Will they not believe?
Chapter 23
12. We created man from an extract of clay.
Chapter 32
7. He who perfected everything He created, and originated the creation of man from clay.
8. Then made his reproduction from an extract of an insignificant fluid.
9. Then He proportioned him, and breathed into him of His Spirit. Then He gave you the hearing, and the eyesight, and the brains-but rarely do you give thanks.
Chapter 35
11. God created you from dust, then from a small drop; then He made you pairs. No female conceives, or delivers, except with His knowledge. No living thing advances in years, or its life is shortened, except it be in a Record. That is surely easy for God.
Chapter 37
11. Inquire of them, “Are they more difficult to create, or the others We created?” We created them from sticky clay.
Chapter 55
14. He created man from hard clay, like bricks.
Chapter 71,
14. Although He created you in stages.
Now that we read the the above verses,
Clearly, God is saying he created us in stages ( water, dust, clay, an extract of clay, sticky clay, hard clay like briks, molded mud,..) and he breathed into us from his soul.
The purpose to be successor on earth, but we were created SOMEWHERE ELSE not on earth as chapter 2 says.
The way I understand this that even if the process of our creation was something close to our understanding of evolution, it will never be the same. BECAUSE IT IS NOT ON EARTH AND TIME IS RELATIVE. I.e if there is evolution happening in another galaxies it will be something else that we never knew; in process time, stages and results. And maybe this is explains the gap between human beings and animals.
Finally, I'd say God knows best but that's my understanding.
Thanks
masha ALLAH
Brother Saboor
ASALAMUALIKUM WR WB
So is it 'moral' for a 54 year old man to marry a 6 year old child? Or have we evolved to a state where that wouldn't acceptable? Hands up who would let their 6 year old daughter marry a 54 year old man???
What’s with the exorcism in the background confused lost ghost misguided
Who’s the brother who come in towards the latter part ?
What was Allah doing for the 9bn years from the creation of the universe and the earth?
Development of Reason is explained by natural selection. Reason gave humans an adaptive advantage over other species. Also, Subboor tried putting evolution to the side to prove his religion but islam claims man was created from mud not evolution.
First: he said the rationality we have is much more than needed for surviving, which is fair to assume its not just about surviving but theres other reasons for it, and you cant say thats not a fair assumption.
2nd: he didnt say he believes human came of evaluation but he says some muslims might but he and majority of muslimes doesnt, but the point he was making even if it was true and majority of muslims are wrong that still isnt a proof for denying god because you still need to answer to other stuff like design.
Or at least thats how I understood him.
The guy screaming in the back .. does he live in SC ?
🤣🤣🤣
Quite obvious 'reason' has evolved as our knowledge has. A baby isn't born with 'reason', our ancestors used to kill babies to try and make it rain, that's what the 'reason' God apparently left them with. Now we know how rain works, it becomes 'unreasonable' and 'irrational' to make sacrifices to a rain God.
It's this same revolution that has led to the decline of religion in educated countries.
I think the gem is Labradorite
Fact:
An observation in reality.
"It is raining."
We've moved on from Darwinism. Reason and morals we have evolved as a cohesive society. Had morals and reason come from God, then they would have been evident from the start of creation......but they aren't. They have evolved over time. Again, no need for God. Which probably explains why Suboor never wants to mention God.
And, once again, no demonstration of the supernatural by Ahmad.
he was making rational arguments lol where did supernatural come in? God is supernatural sure but you can use rational and moral reasons to him.... which was what the point of suboor is to deal with mostly darwinistic notions of naturalism
@@User-zo6si And those arguments occurred within a natural universe... still waiting for him, or anyone believing in magic, to demonstrate it.
@@CesarClouds where did magic come from, god can be the arbitrator of nature. IF everything in this natural universe depends on a cause to exist like the ink on a paper on a pen which then depends upon the raw materials itself,
then eventually you have to go back all the way until even the universe needed a cause to exist, which was the big bang..... but how did all the mass and energy become so small that it was smaller than a pen but resulted in the existance of all the cosmos???
and most importantly where did all that energy and matter come from????
this all goes back until you HAVE to reach a non dependant, necessary cause, which we refer to as GOD
@User 4232 You commit a non-sequitur in the end. As for magic, that's what I call the supernatural. Both have not been demonstrated.
Don't atheists believe life poofed into existence by some magical "unknown" process? Yet after thousands of attempts by athiest scientists & billions spent in super sterile multi billion dollar labs. These atheists can't even produce 0.001% part of a single cell, let alone a fully functioning living cell or an ant. But their darwinian fairy tale claims chemicals somehow fell together in a violent primordial earth to create life. It seems that the darwinist myth claims that that goo was smarter than all humans that have ever lived combined lol.
السَّلاَمُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَةُ اللهِ وَبَرَكَاتُهُ
Assalamu’alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh
MashaAllah
Does the guy scream the whole video??
Where does this Christian guy in background howling his scriptures. Think to himself 'people will want to stop and ask me a question and then join my club. No?
SC Christians are only paid to interfere with dawah, not to call anyone to Christ.
Brother at the end doesnt understand what a scientific theory is.
You should have moved away from this person, this whole talk was distracted by this black man.
Hypothesis:
A postulated idea, based on facts in reality.
"If it rains on my clothes, my clothes should become wet."
There are other possiblities also in addition to rain
The guy in the background screaming is mad annoying. Very distracting
Evolution is a fact.
Depends which theory you follow. We didnt evolve from monkeys for example and there is still no proof for that (some say we have a common ancestor but also no 100% proof). But animals adapting to surroundings is a different story
Halloween is a fact
@@bluelightmoon777
Thank you for demonstrating you have no idea what a theory is.
@@SM-qm3db
And Christmas and Easter and labor Day...
@@WilbertLek you said it is a fact 😂
❤️❤️❤️🌹
I swear every other Speakers Corner video i hear this annoying man in the background. He is ruining so many good conversations, and should be banned from the park
Damn this poor guy. “You can deify your rational faculties…”
Why would I do that? Does that get me salvation? Might as well deify my athletic faculties while I’m at it. Subboor makes the obvious point that you can’t ground the rationality of your cognitive capabilities in any evolutionary story anyway, so this position is stupidly self defeating.
If you’re a consistent atheist, you should be a nihilist of some stripe.
Is it a dinosaur giving birth in the background?
god endowed us with rational mind.
is a corrupted islamian leader more worthy and righteous over a uncorrupted righteous non islamian leader.
The man shouting is annoying to the ears....
Surplus cognitive capacity. 🤣🤣🤣.
There are no real gods,
There are only people that believe gods are real.
I invite you to research more.
@@ObaidahNaseer
Research what?
Let me guess ,
Your particular relighting is the right one, and all the others are wrong
It’s funny , that’s what all religious people say.
Is it possible to research something that does not exist?
100% true Mick
@@ObaidahNaseer
Andreading your idiotic quran perhaps?
Pathetic
@@ERDO-qn4jm
You don't understand what mickq said.
"There are only people that BELIEVE gods are real" So in fact you agree with mickq.
You BELIEVE in alla without ANY evidence.