I was sent this Hornby Flying Scotsman by one of my subscribers to look at with a view to repairing an issue where it would only run without traction tyres.
The tender wheels have additional pickups to aid reliability. The wheels with traction tyres pick up from the flanges. Fibreglass pencils are great for badly corroded surfaces, but you really should avoid using them where they aren't needed as they do leave a rough finish as well as stray strands. This is particularly true with commutators, which should only be cleaned with solvent on a soft pad or cotton bud. An abraded commutator will work well at first, but will cause rapid wearing of brushes, and quickly fill the segment gaps. These tender drive super detailed models are fantastic, and a real bargain for what you get. I believe they are also 5 pole too.
Hi Bill, Many thanks to your video I was able to get a poor running (I purchased it cheap knowing this) R398 Scotsman & R399 Tender drive running to near perfect order. Very informative and helpful. I had the same electrical issues with the collectors and years & years of service had left the Ringfield Motor gunked up with old oil & grease. Keep up the good work.
If the tender had pick ups on both sides it would run without the loco attached. The tender axles are insulated. If it ran without the traction tyres on it would have been pulling the back of the.loco down just like when you pressing down with your finger. Keep up the good videos.
I had a similar problem with a tender drive Schools class I bought from Ebay. It turned out to be that some one had removed the weight from the engine and this meant that there was no pressure on the wheels. Thus they kept failing to make a decent contact with the track. Put some weight in the body and it ran like a dream. But as this engine has a cast metal chassis I am assuming that there is enough weight there.
A great video.. What oil do you use for the engine/tender wheels.. As I would like to get a larger quantity than 15mls that are sold in the service tubes here in Australia.. I found the Labelle 107/108 oil to be good but can't find it in a quantity of like a 1ltr bottle to refill the small containers or the precision oiler that you use (I have one also and think they are fantastic for servicing loco's etc.. any help would be appreciated. I love your channel and the things you show on it.
Hi Bill I'm new to your channel. Great video! Could I ask what the tool was you were using for cleaning the pickups as it looks super neat compared to my cotton buds and cleaning solution. Also what you are using to clean the ringfields brushes please? Many thanks!
It's a fibreglass pencil. But don't use them! I binned mine. The give off tiny shards of fibreglass that irritate the skin and get everywhere. See my more recent video for cleaning commutators.
Hi this is a great informative video. I bought a Hornby Gordon from ebay which has a similar configuration with the copper strip pickups on the engine. Unfortunately the main wheels won't turn when on the track. The copper strip is a bit deformed, as it looks like the chassis cover has been on and off previously, but I do find the wheels will turn by hand. Just wondering if you had any throughts.
If the pickups are deformed they are maybe providing too much physical resistance making it harder for the wheels to turn. If they turn in both directions by hand then that's likely to be the case. If they only turn in one direction by hand then the pickups are maybe catching in the spokes. Pickups are designed to touch the wheels with a very small surface area on the point of contact to minimise resistance. Your best bet is to dismantle and see if you can adjust the pickups or replace the underframe/pickup assembly. Of course it may not be the pickups and it's maybe an issue with the con rods or gunked up axles. Pickups most likely though.
@@oobill Many thanks for your update. My plan is to strip down and see what's what. Unfortunately the whole underframe seems to be very fragile. I will let you know how I get on.
Tender driven locos should have traction tyres on the tender yes. If it's not running at all that doesn't sound like a traction tyre issue more like a contact one like in this video.
I have a flying Scotsman that I left going around the track only to come back to discover something fell onto the track & the train was being blocked. Since then the train barely goes round the track. Do you think the train needs a new motor?
Do you know what the type of coupling is called that connects the engine to the tender? I have a really old version of this and its worn and needs replacing.
Hya Bill I'm wondering if you could help me I have a Hornby tender drive 4f that has suddenly started to smoke would it be possible to send it to you Steve.
I wasn't going to start taking subscriber repairs just yet but a smoking 4f is maybe too good to resist. Email me some pics and details if you can and I'll consider having a look at it. Email address in the About tab on my channel.
Hi Question for you. My flying Scotsman tender is working in both directions but for some reason the locos three main wheels do not turn on the track even though they move off the track or if you push it along the track by hand. It feels like it needs a little weight or something to make the wheels engage Any idea Gaz
The most common cause of this is the rods are bent and are snagging somewhere. Another possible cause is that the wiper pickups are pressing too hard against the wheels and acting like brakes. Could also be dried up lubricant in the axles making the wheels stiff to turn.
Hi Gerry. I worked in motor design for 20 years. You should only clean it if you really need to, for instance if it has even contaminated with lube. Just use a cloth with a gentle solvent like meths or IPA. Don't use anything abrasive, and don't do what some people do and scrape the gaps with a pin, it's unnecessary and can flare the edge of the copper. Regards Gary
Commutators on old X03 and X04 motors etc get very dirty pretty quickly and need cleaning with each service. How often you service depends on how much use they get. I've been experimenting with different methods but I still find a fibreglass pencil the most effective method on old motors that have slightly scored commutators. A lot of the carbonised material is too stubborn or ingrained for gentle cleaning with solvents. Brand new commutators are a different matter as they will be super smooth and should clean well with solvents such as Meths. The commutators on Ringfield motors tend to be quite delicate so maybe best to try Meths and a cotton bud first on them.
Well done another old locomotive lives to see another day. Many thanks for sharing.
😁😁😁
Another excellent analysis and example of problem solving skills. Well done.
I too have forgotten from time to time to press the record button👍🖍📐
The tender wheels have additional pickups to aid reliability. The wheels with traction tyres pick up from the flanges. Fibreglass pencils are great for badly corroded surfaces, but you really should avoid using them where they aren't needed as they do leave a rough finish as well as stray strands. This is particularly true with commutators, which should only be cleaned with solvent on a soft pad or cotton bud. An abraded commutator will work well at first, but will cause rapid wearing of brushes, and quickly fill the segment gaps. These tender drive super detailed models are fantastic, and a real bargain for what you get. I believe they are also 5 pole too.
Hi Bill, Many thanks to your video I was able to get a poor running (I purchased it cheap knowing this) R398 Scotsman & R399 Tender drive running to near perfect order. Very informative and helpful. I had the same electrical issues with the collectors and years & years of service had left the Ringfield Motor gunked up with old oil & grease. Keep up the good work.
Another useful video. Thank you Bill.
Great video mate, very helpful.
Done a good job there Bill bet Dave is well pleased.
Hi Bill, Thanks for fixing my flying scotsman. Youre great
Nae probs lad. Hope it keeps working for a while. 👍
If the tender had pick ups on both sides it would run without the loco attached. The tender axles are insulated. If it ran without the traction tyres on it would have been pulling the back of the.loco down just like when you pressing down with your finger. Keep up the good videos.
Brilliant.
Thanks
Nice one
Thanks
I had a similar problem with a tender drive Schools class I bought from Ebay. It turned out to be that some one had removed the weight from the engine and this meant that there was no pressure on the wheels. Thus they kept failing to make a decent contact with the track. Put some weight in the body and it ran like a dream. But as this engine has a cast metal chassis I am assuming that there is enough weight there.
that was a good fix..
A great video.. What oil do you use for the engine/tender wheels.. As I would like to get a larger quantity than 15mls that are sold in the service tubes here in Australia.. I found the Labelle 107/108 oil to be good but can't find it in a quantity of like a 1ltr bottle to refill the small containers or the precision oiler that you use (I have one also and think they are fantastic for servicing loco's etc.. any help would be appreciated. I love your channel and the things you show on it.
Hi Bill I'm new to your channel. Great video! Could I ask what the tool was you were using for cleaning the pickups as it looks super neat compared to my cotton buds and cleaning solution. Also what you are using to clean the ringfields brushes please? Many thanks!
It's a fibreglass pencil. But don't use them! I binned mine. The give off tiny shards of fibreglass that irritate the skin and get everywhere. See my more recent video for cleaning commutators.
I have a Mallard with the same motor and I am having great difficulty getting the motor off the bogie to service it, can you show how you did that ?
an A1 boiler with BR smoke deflectors! That's different
Hi this is a great informative video. I bought a Hornby Gordon from ebay which has a similar configuration with the copper strip pickups on the engine. Unfortunately the main wheels won't turn when on the track. The copper strip is a bit deformed, as it looks like the chassis cover has been on and off previously, but I do find the wheels will turn by hand. Just wondering if you had any throughts.
If the pickups are deformed they are maybe providing too much physical resistance making it harder for the wheels to turn. If they turn in both directions by hand then that's likely to be the case. If they only turn in one direction by hand then the pickups are maybe catching in the spokes. Pickups are designed to touch the wheels with a very small surface area on the point of contact to minimise resistance. Your best bet is to dismantle and see if you can adjust the pickups or replace the underframe/pickup assembly. Of course it may not be the pickups and it's maybe an issue with the con rods or gunked up axles. Pickups most likely though.
@@oobill Many thanks for your update. My plan is to strip down and see what's what. Unfortunately the whole underframe seems to be very fragile. I will let you know how I get on.
Those eye enhancers look like a useful bit of kit. Could you tell us what they're called. Thanks
I also would like to know what eye magnification you were using.
Flying scotsman looks better without smoke deflectors
Hi Bill, can you advise on the R398 model? I'll send you an email!
Bill, does tenders usially have traction tyres?. I cant get my loco and tender to run, not sure if tyres would help
Tender driven locos should have traction tyres on the tender yes. If it's not running at all that doesn't sound like a traction tyre issue more like a contact one like in this video.
I have a flying Scotsman that I left going around the track only to come back to discover something fell onto the track & the train was being blocked. Since then the train barely goes round the track. Do you think the train needs a new motor?
how can we de mag without the equipment you have
But when I put the flying scotsman on the track, the controller does not start
Do you know what the type of coupling is called that connects the engine to the tender? I have a really old version of this and its worn and needs replacing.
The part you are referring to is the Draw Bar Assembly Part No. X8432M. You might have difficulty finding one though.
There is a set with this loco near me for $ 100. Maybe is bit old .
wish you would have shown how to replace traction tyres
You have to remove the motor/bogie assembly from the tender chassis which I wasn't doing in this instance. Look out for my next video though.
Maybe this ought to be a video you do.
Hya Bill I'm wondering if you could help me I have a Hornby tender drive 4f that has suddenly started to smoke would it be possible to send it to you
Steve.
I wasn't going to start taking subscriber repairs just yet but a smoking 4f is maybe too good to resist. Email me some pics and details if you can and I'll consider having a look at it. Email address in the About tab on my channel.
@@oobill hya Bill I will send some photos tomorrow or Monday thank you very much.
Hi
Question for you.
My flying Scotsman tender is working in both directions but for some reason the locos three main wheels do not turn on the track even though they move off the track or if you push it along the track by hand. It feels like it needs a little weight or something to make the wheels engage
Any idea
Gaz
The most common cause of this is the rods are bent and are snagging somewhere. Another possible cause is that the wiper pickups are pressing too hard against the wheels and acting like brakes. Could also be dried up lubricant in the axles making the wheels stiff to turn.
Whats the best way to clean the commutator.
Hi Gerry. I worked in motor design for 20 years. You should only clean it if you really need to, for instance if it has even contaminated with lube. Just use a cloth with a gentle solvent like meths or IPA. Don't use anything abrasive, and don't do what some people do and scrape the gaps with a pin, it's unnecessary and can flare the edge of the copper. Regards Gary
Commutators on old X03 and X04 motors etc get very dirty pretty quickly and need cleaning with each service. How often you service depends on how much use they get. I've been experimenting with different methods but I still find a fibreglass pencil the most effective method on old motors that have slightly scored commutators. A lot of the carbonised material is too stubborn or ingrained for gentle cleaning with solvents. Brand new commutators are a different matter as they will be super smooth and should clean well with solvents such as Meths. The commutators on Ringfield motors tend to be quite delicate so maybe best to try Meths and a cotton bud first on them.
This is a china built locomotive have a similar Duchess locomotive
hey, my trains front small wheels have come off there is not service in India if u can repair em let me know I play for shipping from both ends