Debate - Who is the better team, the 2018-2023 Limerick team or the 2006-2009 Kilkenny team?
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- čas přidán 2. 07. 2023
- Shane and Michael discuss who is the better team, the current Limerick team or the 2006-2009 Kilkenny team.
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Comparisons are difficult as the game changes a bit .
The style and form of the hurling these past few years is of a greater standard not seen before...so it's Antrim for me...Up the Banner
and Down too!
I know you’re strictly speaking 06-09 here but Kilkenny won 9 in 11 from 06-15 with largely the same spine? Lost 2010 with a heap of injuries and a poor year in 13.
Well LK were severely affected by injuries in 2020, when four of their five players expected to man the Full back line (3 plus 2 subs) all had to go off injured for the year. They brought back a Wing Back to Full back and a man who never played in the FBL before and they won anyway.
Last year they lost Casey and Lynch, who together scored eleven points from play, even though Carey went off injured after about 25 minutes. In the Final Gullane was clearly restricted by injury as was the Super Sub Reidy when he came on, also in the Final.
TJ Reid probably the greatest hurlers we have seen was a sub on that Kilkenny team. And I think that should end this ridiculous debate
He is lucky at his age not to have had the injuries Joe Canning had. If Joe was playing today he’d outplay TJ every time. 😁
@@neasa4222dead right, TJ never had any injuries bar a smashed kneecap 8 months out after a disgraceful pull by a Galway man, a torn abductor and groin, and then last winter had 4 separate injuries. Joe was great, just not the same level as TJ for workrate
It's Ridiculous is right
Considering if you take kilkenny out of leinster then you may have a Wexford, offaly, laois, westmeath who wouldn't have a prayer of winning the all ireland,
Whereas you take limerick out of munster now, you have,
Tipp, Cork, Clare and Waterford,
Two of those have won All Irelands in the last 6 years!
And Limerick have had to play them every year just to get out of Munster never mind win it,
Limerick if they win the All Ireland this year,
By a country mile is more impressive.
He was not the player then he is now and has been for years. He was completely outplayed by Seamus Hickey as late as '14
Limerick's road to an All Ireland is far tougher. Galway didn't even enter Leinster until 09 i think. Great team were Kilkenny but Leinster was a bit of a joke and Limerick having to get out of the round robin structure every year makes their achievement so far more impressive imo.
yea 100% since 2010 last 14 years Galway have reached 10 Leinster finals so as you said for most of Kilkenny's time they were running unopposed in Leinster literally
Kilkenny came within a puc of a ball to limerick last year..that Kilkenny team would not have a chance against Kilkenny of 2006/9
💯💯💯💯💯💯
Game has moved on current kk team would cruise past 06/09. Just like current limerick team would struggle against a middle enough team ten years in the future.
They are comparing them relative to the difficulty of the championships won. Limerick's run being much harder but KK more dominant I think
There was no real competition outside Tipperary to that KK team, now in my opinion Limerick are by far more impressive and have had much tougher battles to get to the top, I also think if it was at the same time and both teams in he one era well then it's a rip roarer of a championship but I still think Limerick are a level above that team, also the man below saying Limerick won't win the All Ireland this year who will
They, but a huge injury crisis in Limerick last and remember this Kilkenny team, with Galway included in Leinster have won four Leinster titles- only two other KK teams have equaled or surpassed that. So it is nonsense to say this is a poor KK team.
Last year Lynch and P Casey were off- they scored eleven points between them and Casey had to go off after 27 minutes in the previous years Final and Lynch was twice hurler of the year by the the time he was 25. To add to that Guillane was clearly restricted by injury as was our super sub David Reidy and Hayes was a doubtful starter beforehand.
If limerick win the all ireland
Definitely Limerick considering the bloodbath that is the munster round robin,
From 2018 to 2022 Limerick had the same run as Kilkenny 2000 to 2004.
2018 and 2000 final appearance
2019 and 2001 semi final
2020 and 2002 final
2021 and 2003 final
2022 and 2004 final
But now that they are in the 2023 final the run from Kilkenny's 2004 to 2009 is similar to Limericks current run of 2018 to 2023, the 2005 semi final exit is identical to 2019.
Except limerick have to play,
Cork
Tipp
Clare
Waterford
Kilkenny/Galway
And another munster team
EVERY YEAR!
Galway weren't even in Leinster.
Which means Kilkenny could literally sleep walk into a semi final every year fresh with no injuries.
Plus the fact they have the advantage of playing in Croke Park.
But none of the other Munster teams won Munster Championship since Cork's 2018, Tipperary 2016 and Waterford 2010. Limerick have beaten Galway in 2018, by qualifying through the backdoor and haven't beaten an All Ireland winning Kilkenny team. Kilkenny beat Cork 2 in a row team and Tipperary who went on to win 2010.
I am a Limerick man, but I would say right now that the Kilkenny team has the edge.
You are perhaps basing the comparison over too short a period, as the spine of that Kilkenny team was around for much longer than the period you listed Shane.
I think this Limerick team will win at least another 3 all Irelands, but this year won't be one of them.
Depending on that, Limerick might be number one; but right now, it's that Kilkenny team, which is probably the greatest of all time a close call against the Tipperary team of the 1960s, and this current Limerick team number 3.
Most Limerick people won't like me saying that, but I believe it's true.
You're not from Limerick
Talking rubbish
This Limerick team have to play Cork, Tipp, Clare, Waterford every year, just to win munster!
That Kilkenny team had to play no one in leinster, Galway were not even in Leinster that time,
Limericks is more impressive especially if they win it this year, with all the injuries they have, kilkenny players were hardly ever injured, after playing a laois, or offaly,
Hans down Limerick
In fairness that Tipp team never won a three a row in Munster nor did they win a three in a row All Irelands. They did notcontest twelve Finals without a single defeat either.
@fonz114 Its you that's talking Rubbish my friend.
I am from limerick Monaleen if you must know.
My nephew is on the limerick panel.
Your entitled to your opinion, even if you don't feel anyone else is.
But your not entitled to you own facts.
We won 4 all Irelands since 1973, Kilkenny won 9 all irelands between 2006 and 2015.
I love Limerick hurling, but even though I am from Limerick I hate some of our low life whinging complaining fans like you.
@@peadarocoileain902The Tipperary team won 6 all ireland between 1958 and 1971.
We have so far won 4 between 2018 and 2022.
We will probably will a good few more, and then we will in my opinion pass the Tipperary team of the late 50s and 1960s, but we are not there yet.
It's going to be much harder to beat Kilkennys record.
It's my opinion that's all right or wrong.
@@davidbamford1971 Look David, there was nobody on the 71 team that was playing in '58- another team. Apart from all that the '58 to 65 team had some spectacular collapses. They leaked nine goals to Waterford in '59 and an old Wexford hurled them off the field in '60 and they only fell over the line in '61 and '62. If Limerick win on Sunday week they will have beaten that teams record six different ways to Sunday, even if they never win another match, Incidentally I must check the '58 team and see how many played in '65.
The game itself and everything around it has changed so much in the meantime that comparisons are fairly meaningless. Imagine what that Kilkenny team would do to everyone if they had the same access to resources, nutritional advice, exposure to modern strength and conditioning, time for recovery etc. that Limerick enjoy. I'm sure a set of forwards like Richie Hogan, Henry Shefflin, Eoin Larkin, Eddie Brennan, Richie Power and Aidan Fogarty would do some damage if they got the nice ball that teams tend to feed their forwards with these days rather than having to fight like animals for every ball
Well you could say that the teams that Limerick play now are also far better prepared that KKs opponents fifteen years ago.
Shane has some agenda against Kilkenny🤦♂️ don’t know how this is even a debate Kilkenny 08/09 team clear
How is it not a debate? Wasn’t any top team other than Kilkenny back then
Kilkenny won 4 in a row without JJ Delaney in 2006, Noel Hickey 2007 (second half injury) and 2009, Henry Shefflin 2007 (second half injury), John Tennyson 2008, James 'Cha' Fitzpatrick 2009, James McGarry 2007 (family tragedy).
Kilkenny all day limerick struggled against a poor kilkenny team last year what would that great kilkenny do to them .
Exactly my thoughts. Also compare the 2008 Waterford team to the 2020 team. In my opinion the 08 one was far stronger and looked what happened to them.
Limerick are a great team but nobody is better than that great Kilkenny team.
That "poor" kilkenny team would hammer the old kilkenny team and the referee kept them in the first half, limerick would rip them apart
The only reason Kilkenny got close to Limerick last year Limerick were short the player of the year in 2020 2021 lynch also Casey, only back from injury, if Kilkenny were without TJ they would have been down 7 - 8 points as TJ kept Kilkenny in the game first half , lynch was involved in many of the scores in 2021 b Cork , Kilkenny would have been well beaten if lynch and Casey fully recovered were playing, remember no Henry in 2010 Kilkenny lost to Tipperary, you are forgetting how good lynch is , he creates lots of scores
@@Bodaciousbirdbains how many All Ireland would killkenny have if they were if they were playing in muster all their lives
@@timdonegan8854 about the same as limerick I'd say maybe 2 or 3 more
Kilkenny by an absolute mile, look at the players that were in that team not to mention Kilkenny won 8 all Ireland in 10 years, limerick are a great team but still a long way to go to catch that great Kilkenny team and the gap is closing in on limerick no doubt about that.
They walked into an all ireland semi final every year. Different story coming through a round robin of munster hurling let me tell ya. Kilkenny often only had to beat 2 quality teams to win an all ireland, look at all the teams limerick beat on there way to win all irelands. Will ya stop
Not a chance
@@jericho9653 100% much more quality Limerick had to face this year they
beat a Really scrappy Cork team by just 1 point to even make it out of Munster
they beat Clare in the Munster final real tough game
they beat Galway who really put up a good fight for most of the game
after a tough start against Kilkenny they once again turned into the All Blacks and ran in 21 points in the second half crushing Kilkenny by 9 Points
I am absolutely not diminishing that kilkenny teams achievements, they are living legends and you only have to mention their first names for people to know who are referring to, an incredible incredible team.
However only 3 teams have won 5 munster championships in a row but with the Round Robin series that has been in place and the cut throat nature of it rather than the old system means that this Limerick team is the best we have seen from Munster.
The Kilkenny team while incredible and i am not taking away from their achievements, didnt have Galway in the Leinster Championship, could coast to an all Ireland Semi final before the Championship heated up that if Limerick equal the 4 in a row on the back of winning 5 Munsters in a row which will be a big ask this year but if they do it, they will have equalled the Kilkenny achievement but have done it in a much harder route so there cant really be any dispute that they will be the best team that we have seen. And if they do 5 in a row the argument is redundant.
However both different eras, both a pleasure to watch and two teams that will go down in history.
Absolutely,
Kilkenny had no one to play in leinster, they were always super fresh coming into Croke Park,
No injuries to there big players hardly,
Limerick had to do in a bloodbath of a round robin in Munster,
And Galway weren't even in it leinster that time!
@@fonz114 yea i would agree Limerick had a much better quality of Opposition to play who the fuck is in Leinster like be fair
most of Cody's time as Manager there was no one everyone was shit Galway Finally got added to Leinster shocker they reached
10 Leinster finals in the last 14 years finally some bit of competition for Kilkenny
but Munster ? Munster is a fucking Blood Bath of hurling
dont let Shane answer to biased
Because it’s not the answer you want to hear ?
I would say at the very least Limerick are equal to that kk team 5 Munster in a row kk had as good as a buy to all semi every year
No debate in my opinion Kilkenny 2006-2009,that team was awesome,pulverised everyone won by huge margins and an unbelievable knack of scoring loads of goals. Their defenders didn’t give you an inch and their power play was incredible. Amen
They walked into an all ireland semi final every year. Different story coming through a round robin of munster hurling let me tell ya. Kilkenny often only had to beat 2 quality teams to win an all ireland, look at all the teams limerick beat on there way to win all irelands. Will ya stopThey walked into an all ireland semi final every year. Different story coming through a round robin of munster hurling let me tell ya. Kilkenny often only had to beat 2 quality teams to win an all ireland, look at all the teams limerick beat on there way to win all irelands. Will ya stop
@@jericho9653 you’re wrong dude,Kilkenny would pulverise Limerick as they could score goals at will dude. Kilkenny won by huge margins dude as Limerick usually only stumble over the line dude. Kilkenny put in high quality performances dude,their display against Waterford in 2008 set the bar dude. Amen
@@zzzaaa0990 but they beat waterford in 2020 final by 11 points and the beat cork in 2021 final by 16 points and again its fine when you can walk into an all ireland semi final every aingle year unchallenged, you cant do that in munster. Every team in munster couod win an all ireland. Will you stop will ya. Limerick doing what theyve done is incredible. Well done limerick
@@jericho9653 Kilkenny met with serious challenges dude,they made it look easy dude as great teams do dude. You sound freaked dude,less of the aggression dude. Amen
Dude😂
limerick better. specially if they win this year.
Limerick aren't finished yet and they may surpass Kilkenny but the Kilkenny 4 in a row was only part of their era. They one another 4 after that. Two more two in a rows. Thats the point being lost here. So its still Kilkenny for me and thats coming from a Limerick man.
I don’t buy into this cliche the game has changed so much since then,hurling is hurling and I judge teams on the quality of their performances. Strength and conditioning was in place for much of this century,all this nutrition and diets as well doesn’t necessarily make you a better player. Qualities like skill,heart and an unquenchable-thirst for success were in abundance with Cody’s team,they were an unrelenting machine. Just look at their performance in the 2008 all Ireland win over Waterford,absolutely majestic. Players like Shefflin,DJ Carey,Tommy Walsh,Noel Hickey,JJ Delaney and Eddie Brennan were from a different planet. Amen.
That kilkenny teams ability to hammer in goals tips it for me.
They wouldn't even get the chance against this limerick team they'd be so knackered
Limerick would destroy that team, the game has moved on light years regarding S&C, diet, tactics etc.
Also KK basically had a bye to the semi final every year, look at what Limerick have to do every year to even get out of Munster
A weaker Kilkenny gave Limerick a tough game do
Shane angry poor tipp not even in the equation 😂😂😂
Kilkenny beat limerick twice also
Twice??
Once and that was the 2019 poor ref decision , when is this other time ?
@@jpxst180s62017 Kilkenny beat Limerick in the quarter final
Shane is talking about tipperary going celebrating and going off the rails, when did you ever see tipp do 2 in a row😂
All of Fifty eight years ago. This celebrating excuse is ludicrous.
The KK side of 06-09 had a bye to the semi final every year in a shambles of a Leinster championship(still is) it's very amusing to read the comments of simpletons saying a team from nearly 20 years ago even in theory would compete with the modern athletes of the game, it would be a massacre.
If Limerick win the 4 in a row this year there wont even be a debate left.
Lmfao 😂😂
@@johnos2765 Aye John tis gas to think Noel Hickey would be able for Gillane inside alright.
@@MrWatchyourtoes The cork team back in that period would absolutely hammer the 2021 team Limerick played.
The Waterford team back in that period would do the same to the 2020 Waterford team Limerick beat and the old kilkenny team would batter the shite out of the 2022 team Limerick just about got over
You're not being objective. That Kilkenny team was the greatest of all time.
@@johnos2765 Aye Jesse Owens would have beaten Usain Bolt going by your genius train of thought 😀
@@MrWatchyourtoes I'm right and you know it.
Limerick came out of munster every time - its not even close.
Absolutely no argument here. Kilkenny on top in this debate. After kilkenny lost the final in 2010 they went on to won 4 of the next 5 all irelands. Limerick have a long way to go. Cork were better than they are now back then. So were waterford and tipp. Kilkenny beat them all except when Lar banged in the goals in 2010.
No way, if limerick win this all ireland they'll have 5 in 6!
What do you mean tipp, Cork better, limerick wiped the floor last year in a munster final with a Tipp team that won the All Ireland, and a Clare team that won the All Ireland,
They've beaten all the big three multiple times,
Far more impressive,
@@fonz114 when kilkenny won in 11 they had 5 in 6. When they won in 12 they had 6 in 7
Limerick put it up to KK for long periods in 12 and were very unlucky to lose by two points to them in '14. Really how many of that '14 Limerick would get on the present LK team -about three I'd say at most. They also beat the great Tipp team you talk of in 13 and 14, with that same average side.
@@peadarocoileain902 never said anything about a "great tipp team". I said tipp were better then than they are now. From 6 to 16 kilkenny competed in ten out of the 11 Finals. Might have been all 11 only for Henry got sent off for tapping a lad with his hurl against cork.
Limerick would be too physical for them, hurling has changed and they have more of a challenge in munster than kilkenny ever had in leinster and the championship has gotten a lot more competitive, limerick would bate them in a match by 7 points I'd say as would most other teams at the moment
Good one 😂😂😂😂
@@Lowandhard06 shup lad your probably from clare, limerick would annihilate that kilkenny team😂😂😂😂😂
That Kilkenny team would hockey them. Not even worth a debate
Not a chance,
They wouldn't be able to cope with how Limerick play the game, Limerick run rings around them
@@fonz114nah man look as much as I hate kilkenny that 2006-2009 Kilkenny having
Jackie Tyrell
Henry Sheflin
TJ Reid
Richie Hogan
Tommy Walsh
J J Delaney
P J Ryan
Eoin Larkin
Aidan Fogarty
Richie power
Yea good fucking luck against that
Eddie Brennan
Be a serious battle Kilkenny would have to mix their tactics up imo to have a chance. Kilkenny definitely had the forwards to hurt Limerick
@@fonz114kk would be still running in circles ffs limerick light years ahead of them