Fallout - It just works (mostly)
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- čas přidán 30. 06. 2024
- I honestly never thought we'd get anything even remotely close to a faithful live-action video game adaptations out of Modern Hollywood.
But here we are ... Its not perfect, but its a bloody good start.
Join me on a relatively spoiler free dive of Amazon's Fallout.
Honestly, I haven't heard anyone complain about Lucy or her actress.
She did a great job.
when did the bar drop so fucking low that this is whats considered good
For me, Halo.
Count me as someone who only had a backseat driver's understanding of Fallout but loved the show :)
I was vary pleased with the show myself. a great breath of fresh air after Halo left me jaded and angry.
Agreed.
It's nice to see you as a happy jelly for a change! 🌸🤗🙌🏻 I hope it happens more often 🎉
When it comes to Fallout Lore if you know the events of the resource wars and the factions that were vying for power after the bombs fell. You know all you really need to know. Digging deeper is entirely optional. And when it comes to the games most of it is in the form of unmarked quests and locations. Like Replicated Man in 3 or Remenants in Fallout New Vegas. You also have all terminals, notes, and environmental story telling.
Much love to your integrity and openmindedness. The algorithem is cruel but I always come back to your harbour.
You’re always welcome to drift by.
Really stoked to see more content from you!
Personally I reckon I’m going to drop the show after ep 3. Watched ep 2 tonight and what I hand waved in the first episode has come around.
As someone who is playing through fallout 1 I can say with confidence that the show is a Bethesda Fallout show. I think personally after binging The Boys the gore is a bit of a turn of as well as the comedy.
Considering prime wants to put ads on their service this is an easy goodbye.
On a lighter note, thank you for your effort!
4:22 will with that recommendation, I shall return.
still dont know who throw the first bomb or who started the war.
Nah it was definitely those damn communists!
@@workingjellyfish 🤣
True enough, but it takes a lot of the ambiguity out of it, especially when Valt-Tec is its own entity and not a puppet of the Enclave like in previous games.
@@Lobsterwithinternet yes retconning it thats always the bethesda solution
Matt Berrys voice as Codsworth made my partner run from another room to figure out what mr Darkplace / IT crowd / Mighty Boosh was up to now. Great casting.
The man is a treasure.
you and your partner were buddies weren't you?
As a hardcore fan, watching the show hurt (And I've watched it like 5 times now, maybe I'm a masochist lmao), there was good moments for sure that is undisputed. Outside of culture war mumbo jumbo i've seen from more critical CZcamsrs about the show, there are so many issues that certain things needed to be clarified outside of the material itself, which is indicative of poor writing(IE Collapse of NCR, the Canonicity of prior entries, and some of the BoS topics such as a the Prydwen). Just came from your video on 'Why everyone hates Disney Star Wars' and you mentioned (and I'm paraphrasing ofc) that the sequels felt like either misdirected or outright intentional changes/adaptation of the EU causing many hardcore to mild fans to get annoyed with the direction. While the instance with the fallout show is a little different, as a long time fan it felt exactly like that, its as if the Star Wars franchise destroyed the Republic with little to no explanation and a plot in Coruscant that touched on nothing of the prior setting but a McGuffin and a few quip like mentions.
There is a lot of talk still some months after the show that it doesn't break cannon, and that is nominally correct, but regardless of what Todd states, it breaks the spirit and momentum of the world space set up in F1, F2, and FNV and general consensus of the fans as I anecdotally gather from online and irl convos and community spaces. There was ALOT of expectations of what this show would be and it checked only a few of those boxes for a few people, which isn't good. It pretty much lit an unneeded fire on pre-established lore from F1 to NV and warping it into this new continuation which cares little about the prior material. It might not break the Canon outright but it can go against the grain and intetionallity of the prior material, just look at the SW Sequels. I often see the excuse that we will have to wait till season two to get all the answers, but that still isn't good imo and indicates the show doesn't answer the questions it raises within its own continuity. The show does not cultivate a speculative environment, only one which brings confused questions on what is happening.
Now for the plot alone, it's fine, I have my reservations about Cold Fusion being a major plot point when it has been a thing for much of the new additions of fallout (Literally being a core, pun intended, mechanic of F4 and F76). But the Characters aren't bad like what we see right now in lets say, Acolyte, Lucy is a solid character which fits in the world space, same for the Ghoul, both of which keep consistent with their arcs and general dialogue as they progress further in the story. With the exception of Maximus who is just a mess of direction I feel like as he seems to just fit one niche of aspiring noble Knight, to bumbling violent fool. All in all, it isn't overtly offensive, it is just safe and reserved disregarding the rather start changes that aren't explained at all really.
Brand new viewer of your channel as of today and really enjoying the stuff you got!
Todd and others has said multiple times that New Vegas is still Canon, and that Shady Sands gets destroyed right after New Vegas.
The fall stands for something else, most people believe it stands for the 1st battle of hooverdam since the battle takes place in the fall year.
They also confirm that we haven't seen nearly at all the end of the NCR, saying that the NCR is huge. Destroying the Shady Sands wouldn't destroy it. People have to remember that the NCR was originally multiple states, so they kinda have experience not having a centralized government for all the states.
Finally we have no idea if Vault Tec started the great war or not. We just know that they were willing to go that far.
Then why is there a sign of it being the first capital when it was the capital during the events of NV? And if it's not the capital anymore, why would destroying it mean anything or prevent the NCR from ignoring it for 15 years? And why did the survivors of Shady Sands not get rescued by the NCR but instead had to hide in a nearby vault and were reduced to raiders? And if they were that fragile, how were they able to put forward an expedition to the Mojave in the first place?
And how was the victory at the first battle of Hoover Dam the beginning of the fall of Shady Sands but not the beginning of the fall of the NCR when Shady Sands was still the seat of government at the time of NV?
ah yes we are taking the words of a man who has lied to the fallout community more than any other and probably breathes more lies and air
Except this show says it gets nuked before the plot of New Vegas begins. Which would make the plot super strange.
And the NCR are now a bunch of barely organised raiders.
Vault Tec would not benefit from a cold war going hot, not even slightly. Their entire business model is selling shelters and whatnot. There is no benefit, and Mr House certainly wouldn't be into that shit.
He's already meant to have hooked himself up to extend his life BEFORE the bombs drop, as he knew it was coming, but he was slightly off on the when.
@@blacklistedpirate4169 Exactly! The show even shows that books had their renting dates end in 2276 meaning they weren't taken out after that year. Also, nobody has ever made the claim that fall means a decline of a nation until this show decided to nuke Shady Sands... We never talk about the Fall of Rome, Constantinople or Reach as a decline of their nations, but rather when those nations ended
Is today april fools im too lazy to look it up
Unfortunately no. People are too afraid to criticize anything now a days. And in their defense, most shows and movies are such garbage now, this trainwreck looks like a 10/10 in comparison.
@@bjornolfactory9363 it's not that they're scared, they just don't even think to criticize. Most of them have literally zero expectations to lose because Fallout doesn't exist in their imagination, its an interactive media toy to entertain them. If the entertainment is entertaining then it gets a positive review, who cares or even knows that it's not fallout
@@bjornolfactory9363 I did criticize it though, there are some glaring lore concerns even from my casual perspective. The portrayals of the NCR and BOS aren't great. The plot is too convenient and contrived at times and not all the humor lands. But overall I had fun with it.
@@sirdrip1313 An apt assessment. Fallout is very much an interactive playground that I enjoy without deeply engaging with the lore, and that perspective informs my review of the show. That said, I agree with the lore concerns I've seen, but its par for the course with Modern Bethesda at this point is it not?
@@workingjellyfish when they start changing events it's usually a sign that they didn't do their research. The way adaptations are made is pretty unprofessional but it's not always bad. Starship troopers is a good movie made by a director that quit the book after chapter one but theres a much stronger anime that emulates the themes of the book. With the Fallout games there's already differing versions of what Fallout should be but there's always an original source material which would have made the best show. Can't expect loliwood movie lords to finish a book or a game or deeply think about it but hopefully it can inspire something else out of them.
20:14 how do you know the ncr is dead and not reduced to a smaller size?
Yeah I liked it. Been a fan since the first game way back. It’s easier for me to separate head canon from the games versus the show. Plus as a bonus the people working on the show seem mostly competent, and above all to give a shit.
Will you do a review on the Acolyte?
So sad to say it but, RIP Halo fans. Sad because I love this show but can’t help but just feel jealous a little that we couldn't have this for Halo.
It’s a shame they abandoned the old art style of Adam and Leonard. Also not a fan just writing the NCR off that way
Yeah, the BOS didn't really land for me either.
@@workingjellyfish yeah the west coast BOS is a war of survival and bringing the east coast was just a terrible idea imo
Matt Berry was great casting, especially after being wasted in Boba Fett
But yeah, I think Maximus’s story was the weakest of the three.
Especially episodes 1 and 2. The scenes with Knight Titus made me wonder if someone stole the armor with how completely out of place he was, having him do both stupid stuff and being totally unlikable to justify him dying and getting a suit of power armor. Once it got past that, his story got better.
yeah, I had a lot of problems w his death. like he was telling him he's dead while asking him to save him. like what kind of idiot is this guy that he lacks any sense of self preservation at all. and it gives maximus a much easier out and makes the decision less gray
the show just works, yes, but its mid, its the adaptation that Fallout 4 deserves.
I haven't been a Fallout fan since Fallout 2, but after a rough start, it went swimmingly. We just needed geckos! Yet Westworld's first season was also rather good... so, we should hold our breath regarding the second season. Anyway, I'm just now watching the video, so I hope I don't retread old ground... or water.
Being a classic Fallout fan I can understand not wanting to play the Bethesda games. If you ever decide to play one play New Vegas. There are plenty of mods to iron out the Bethesda quarks. And the dev team was made of Fallout 2 devs. It also gets ire from Todd (despite what he has said recently) because despite Bethesda’s attempts New Vegas is the fan favorite modern Fallout game and has been for over a decade.
So many people being fooled by the skin suit.
Nice editing 👌
Thanks mate
20:48 Todd Howard *literally* said in an interview yesterday, that Shady Sands was nuked after the events of New Vegas, and “the fall” is a separate event
The actual timeline of events does not line up with that. The fall of shady sands in the show is set 4 years BEFORE the events of New Vegas even take place
Wasn't aware there was a program update to like Todd again after the abject failure that was Starfield.
Thanks for the update - news travels slow in the sheltered harbour.
@@jacksonclemons6204Maybe It is a language barrier I am spanish. But here The fall is used from the point where the decadence of a place or regime starts. Like the fall of Roman empire starts at III of our era. Then the nuke equivalent would be the Destruction of rome in V
So for me all makes sense first the economical crisis (you can see that crisis in NV with the taxes the burocracy and the barons taking control the nucleus was in a situation of exhaustion. Several NCR says so in NV.
In fact with president death and a possible canon with their lost in the Hoover. All fits like a glove.
In fact two ending variations of NV show exactly the end of the show literally
@@mara_jade021 Usually when you're talking about a fall (especially a singular city like Shady Sands) it's has a hard date like the fall of Constantinople which happened in 1453 by the Ottomans. The whole "decline" counter-argument doesn't account for how most of human history has been documented. Even with the fall of the Roman Empire, people debated which date the empire fell (either the breaking the empire in two in 395AD or the day the last emperor was deposed in 476AD), but no one argues that it doesn't have a hard date.
(I just going to keep reposting this rebuttal, because I don't feel like repeating myself again and again for this stupid counter-argument.)
Damn is someone recycling zimmer dark phoenix score?
I've not seen the show yet, don't care about spoilers so I watched the whole thing, I'm not worried about having a diverse cast, Fallout has always had a massive variety of characters. What I am worried about is hollywood putting it's agenda into it that was never there, some people like you said call it wokeness, I call it whatever it is, if it's there. Little worried about you mentioning it, but hopefully it's just the diverse cast and not other elements leaking in...
The Irony of Ending your video about how well a show understands the themes of FallOut with the sentence “God bless capitalism” is beyond funny
17:00 actually in games in positive fault tech starts war too
When was that confirmed out of curiosity? I never thought it was definite.
@@workingjellyfish I do know when fallout three and the city of megaton one of the bombs on the side has a logo from vault tech. But I think this is just a fan theory so I could be wrong.
It was never (and still has not been) confirmed which faction dropped the first bombs. The public was definitely led to believe that China was responsible but this is never confirmed outright and Vault Tech is often suspected in various sources throughout the games. Ox Horn has a great video on this
@@eh-ay-ronTim Cain confirmed it was China who dropped the first bomb.
I don't think the tone was right at all. It felt like a straight comedy all the way through. I respect people liked it but just the driver of the plot, what happened to Shady Sands, was terribly thought out. Neglecting the dates and ages of the characters. The change of location and reason for why it happened are debilitatingly infuriating. When they could have done something much more thematically fulfilling, instead it's just silly, anyway you cut it.
The cast, preformance, costumes were all (for the most part) good and the sets were great. The writing, like most modern fallout content, was lacking. Also, the Oldies were a little over used imo.
And saying it's appealing to a casual/non-gamer audience like it's some badge of honor, so was the Halo show. It's just there isn't this cult of 343 like Bethesda has. But like I said with the Halo show "It looks pretty but it's trash. Though if you like it, good for you."
The Fallout show like the Halo show are for "prime normals" but Fallout doesn't have the excuse of an alternate timeline, if it's canonicity is to believed.
The tone won't land for legacy Fallout fans, but for late entries like myself I thought it worked well (but that is 100% personal preference that can be tailored in game - and not in a show). The writing is on brand for Bethesda - but like you say ,the cast did a good job with what they had to work with.
I disagree on the Halo comparison though. Halo is a fundamental fail at all levels, particularly in its production design, which couldn't even remain consistent between episodes. Fallout was at least consistent throughout, and the physical attention to detail really got me. I'm also a huge advocate of practical effects and physical sets, which again I thought the show did really well. And because I treat Fallout more like an interactive toy box than a sanctum of hallowed text, the show was enough for me.
I wouldn't say it appealing to a casual/non-gamer makes it good in isolation, because that is simply not true. But anecdotally I know several folk, including myself, who like Fallout that have non-gamer partners that enjoyed the show too.
As for the timeline ... isn't f***Ing it up pretty much the Go to for Bethesda at this point?
I have around 4k hours into Fallout games, mostly New Vegas and 4 (heavily modded).
This show f'cked up a lot of the lore beyond repair, the worst parts being ghouls and The BOS. 4/10 show.
Will you review The Acolyte? it's some garbage.
They didn't adapt it faithfully. Thats the problem. The actors do well, which is a nice change, and it certainly looks Fallout, but thats it. The story is nonsense and how things function seems entirely random.
You have power armour which is both incredibly powerful, able to bust through buildings, but cannot kill one person and can tank bullets like nobodies business or is taken out by 1. They also ruined ghouls, for some reason and completely ditched the story of Fallout for a much, much worse one saying capitalists nuked the world to...make more money despite there BEING NO MORE MONEY! China fires the nukes and they fired first because they were losing, thats the story.
I played OG Fallout releases and loved 3 later, it bugs me how the lore for NV is tarnished by the series because is so freaking good. Talk about adapting greatly a source marterial, it made me think what would it be a Bioshock series or film.
Welp. I got some news for yeah. I hate to tell you this but...... Netflix if making a Bioshock series.
"War. War Never Changes."
It’s a shame Ron Perlman didn’t get a cameo.
@@workingjellyfish Yes he also should have played lord hood in Halo show.
I need this after all the drama with some of the other reviews
There is plenty of “passion” surrounding the show… not all of it positive.
I feel like most people take the wrong conclusions from the "Boards meeting" scene. Yes all those Corpos *would* have dropped the bomb, but I think it is clear that they simply have not done it. Why would the mother on the board let her daughter be out with dad if she knew the bombs would come. I say the corpos made plans, yes but ultimatly got suprised too. It wasn't something they could control in the end.
And why did the bombs drop in the afternoon on the West Coast when it was confirmed that the bombs dropped at around 9 am EST, which would make it around 6 am PST when the bombs hit or did they just hold off nuking Los Angeles for 7-8 hours?
oh boy, I dunno what is going on online and why people are praising it this much, maybe I played to much fallout 2 and new vegas but the lore is beyond destroyed at this point.
The primary problem here is also how bethesda is not only destroying the old fallout lore, but how they can't even be consistent with the new one: Vaultech was bought half way throughout the building of the vaults by the enclave the actual shadow goverment. robco also bought repcoon but for some reason repcoon has it's own seat at the vaulttech table. the enclave made the vault as social experiments to see how survival in space collonies would effect them, the fact that the vaults actually worked as working nuklear bunker was actually more luck then intention, which is why a ton of vaults killed so many of it's inhabitants because they were suppose to get results for extreme conditions, thus vault tech stating that they wanted to rule over isolated little communities makes no sense. The brotherhood in the series wears east coast armor and waves the east coast flag...on the west coast. The brotherhood knights are compleatly out of character. the NCR was a complete NATION which expanded over all of california, so the fact that they are a raider band now makes 0 sense exept of course if vault tec made a second nuclear holocaust.
I could note more but for now we leave it be, the music choice is terrible and not reminisent of the somber and melancholic music of actual fallout games and most of the asthetic is simply fallout 4 with no respect for the original source material, even and I have to give it that point, they do not look awful.
If you want I can make a second response which is a bit more structured and has more in depth critique, but I am really concerend at this point that people like critical drinker, you and many other don't see the obvious problems in writing, tone """the message""" and respect for the source material that is literally infront of you, even with 0 knowledge of the lore...
I don't know much about fallout, aside from what my brother says since he's played nearly all the games, but I sympathize with the fans who can see the problems where others can't, at least as far as wanting something being authentic to the popular source material it's based on.
I personally found it inoffensive as a low info viewer, it had some moments that I felt were out of place or made me scratch my head (like how a guy in power armor died from a bear attack, your telling me that suit isn't more bear proof than the irl bear proof armor someone made out of padding and plastic?!)
But, I get how needlessly changing those other details is frustrating since those are the things you went out of your way to learn more about, because your a fan. Then they go and make a show with a different lore and feel to what your a fan of and you think,"Why are they even bothering with the I.P., they might as well make their own thing."
Fallout has a fanbase, because of what it is, change what fallout is and expect fans to not be too enthusiastic about it.
I’m curious to hear your thoughts. I’m really more of a causal enjoyer of Fallout and have never been particularly invested in the lore.
I mean, just look at all the comments saying it's good dude. They don't normally give any actual reasons about why the show is good. Or they just make excuses for the terrible writing. Most of the praises are going towards atmosphere and aesthetics. The things you mentioned are what I picked up on instantly and had to stop watching because of it. The Brother Hood of Steel act like bumbling retards who randomly abuse people for no reason. That is not the Brotherhood of Steel at all. I honestly think the positive reviews are honestly because everyone was expecting it to flop completely or are used to shows being complete garbage. So when something even halfway decent comes out it's like a God send. This is how low people's standards have sunk unfortunately.
@@deltacommando130 yeah but it also hurts a lot that people are just flashed by the show whilst as you said there are stupid moments like the bear attack.
My biggest problem isn't just that he dies from it, that's absolutly a bit lore breaking, but far worse is how the knight talks to maximus, threatening to have him hanged, etc.
that is just not how a brotherhood knight would talk, they come from a military background and are very serious about their mission, they see their job THEIR ENTIRE LIFE, as preventing a second apocalypse. They don't go out of their way to shoot for sport, they don't threaten their own with violence or death, they are "knights" and have never in any itteration of fallout even remotly acted like this, sure they can be rude towards outsiders, but they never go out of their way to kill without reason or dare even to hurt their own.
That is what I find respectless it is blatent character assassination towards a whole faction of fallout as well as for the lore and worldbuilding of fallout, compleate and utter character assassination!
I have not seen it yet so thank you for flagging spoilers
You’re welcome.
I'm 50/50. 50% good for keeping the esthetics, and the feel. 50% bad for destroying ALL the lore, and I mean they destroyed everything. If you did not or just barely played the game you will love the show. If you played all the games, 1+2+Las Vegas ..... you will be angry.
Depends which group you're part off. The esthetics where great, I love the robot trying to kill her, the actors where great, but the writing was 🤢🤢🤮🤮 80% of the decisions where absolutely stupid. Yes movies and shows need some stupid's decisions, but 80% ++ is too much.
Dude. That's the most important part. The lore is the CORE OF THE STORY in most games! You cant just treat lore like Bethesda does and "Keep it simple stupid!" And then attempt to make a full on tv show based on said lore! And it's WAY more than just the lore they screwed up! The Brotherhood of steel act more evil than the Enclave did in the game in this show! They abuse a fucking recruit for LITERALLY NO REASON AT ALL! And that's just the tip of the iceberg!
@@bjornolfactory9363 100% True,
I think that's the crux for me. I never played classic Fallout (1 and 2) and I treat the others like an interactive toy box rather than a shelter of scared lore. So I was sucked in by the production design, practical effects, sets and locations (which have been terrible in modern Hollywood for so long I'd all but forgotten they were possible).
But I can appreciate that lore trumps aesthetics, and understand why some (if not many) have taken issue with the show. After all, I lived through 2 seasons of Halo.
Funny, the clips I've tried to watch are packed full of DEI, but YMMV I guess.
The same people who brought us Rings of Power did not suddenly learn their lesson and start respecting IP's that fans love. It's just not possible.
Either the expectations of the fans are in the basement, or their standards are.
What's DEI?
@@Dillman502 Oh you sweet summer child.
Big MT was also in the show. There's a few ties to NV in there.
And that final shot? *chef’s kiss*
Perfection
@@itsange02Perfection? New Vegas was destroyed. We see crashed Vertabirds and destroyed Securitrons on the Strip. Meaning the BoS wiped them out.
They didn't adapt it faithfully, they changed a lot, some for the worse, but it seems like the writers, actors and directors are capable of make something good. So eh ill wait and see.
*genuine inquiry* Would you watch a second season? Or do the changes bother you too much?
@@workingjellyfishJust to interject, I would.
There were a lot of things in the show that sent my lorehead brain up a wall like the time that the nukes dropped.
But as a show in its own sphere, I loved it outside of a few things like Maximus’s early story.
And I would love to see season 2, even though the credits indicate that New Vegas was destroyed by the East Coast BoS.
@@workingjellyfish not sure how the changes will affect the flow of the story so, ill wait till season 2 before i pick it up fully. Hopefully the actors and writers that seems to know what they are doing can craft something good out of it.
19:40 Todd has confirmed that Shady Sands was not nuked in 2277, it was nuked after fnv. “The Fall” is referring to maybe an economic decline of sorts and for some reason an actual date isn’t given to the nuke detonation.
I’ve also heard some theorize that the chalk board is propaganda of sorts or is unreliable by intent.
Either way the way that timeline is designed is incredibly misleading and has led to lot of pitchforks. FNV is still canon though.
Yeah that's what I was thinking exactly. The "fall" is vague, the arrow points to *after* 2277, and lessons taught in vaults aren't exactly trustworthy.
I havent clicked that fast on a notification for a long time
Thanks, skipper
The one thing I didn't like was maximus' character. He grew up with the brotherhood of steel, but didn't learn anything. He should be just as knowledgeable as thaddeus. He's just a dummy who gets what he wants by pouting.
In terms of story: the portrayals of the BOS and NCR felt a little off to me, but not enough to ruin my overall enjoyment.
He had real Finn vibes. "Trailer: Oh, Sick! We get to see the BoS as an Insider." Series: "Oh, he's a joke. Great."
I went into this show wanting to hate it because of what was done to Halo and the Witcher but they absolutely nailed Fallout. Some of the lore is a little funky and it looks like they’re suggesting that Vault Tech made ghouls, but I loved it. THIS is what it looks like when everyone involved in the project loves the source material.
I feel very similar - but people are passionate about Lore, I understand why some dislike it.
2:40 Brought a tear to my eye. Even if it's pandering at least she's trying. ♥
The Witcher show was "based" off of the books, not the games. I guess with the end results, that's just semantics tho.
Amazing how the character in the show and the game look so similar. I guess the books must have described him in minute detail
@@knottastu I mean he is fairly well described in the books, but thems the show runner's words, not mine. Wanna experience some absolute brain rot? Go back and watch all the behind the scene interviews and side content that screen junkies love. My end statement of my comment was a jab of the end result, A trash show. so it really didn't matter what the "source" material was, because you saw what we got.
Yeah, the first season for the most part was based of the books but ya' know.
@@levijackson767 yeah, unfortunately so.
I loved the series overall but as a fan gamer, there were alot of little nuisances that bothered me a bit. If the "raiders" at the beginning were supposedly NCR in the finale, why were they murdering vault dwellers?? Aren't they the "good" guys in New Vegas? Where was the follow-up to the water filter crisis? How did the NCR know how to imitate the 32 dwellers in the exchange? What actually happened to vault 32? Was it an experiment that drove them mas or the blight that starved them to madness?
Agreed - some of the plot elements are very contrived. Coop deleting dudes in the finale with one shot but not putting a round through a lone Maximus in episode 2 was a stretch for me.
To be clear. Shady sands is not destroyed until after New Vegas. The 'fall' starts before New Vegas, but it's been confirmed that the nuke fell AFTER 2277 (and after New Vegas). As implied by the arrow between 2277 and the nuke.
The show has issues, this ain't one.
Usually when you're talking about a fall (especially a singular city like Shady Sands) it's has a hard date like the fall of Constantinople which happened in 1453 by the Ottomans. The whole "decline" counter-argument doesn't account for how most of human history has been documented. Even with the fall of the Roman Empire, people debated which date the empire fell (either the breaking the empire in two in 395AD or the day the last emperor was deposed in 476AD), but no one argues that it doesn't have a hard date.
(I just going to keep reposting this rebuttal, because I don't feel like repeating myself again and again for this stupid counter-argument.)
@@jamesweaver4097 so you can criticise the way they labelled the timeline. That doesn't change what the creators meant. It has been confirmed that the bomb dropped after. It's canon. It's fact.
@@existentialselkath1264 Except, it the creators made it post-hoc, it was clearly damage control on their part. There TONS of other smaller lore discrepancies to point to the fact that they didn't give a shit.
(If you want one example, Shady Sands is nowhere near where it should be. It's far north of New Vegas, nearly as close to San Francisco as it is to LA. I could give plenty more examples if you wanted.)
@@jamesweaver4097 that's pure speculation. Everything else is irrelevant anyway, I'm not denying that the show makes changes. I was clarifying that shady sands destruction specifically wasn't a retcon.
It was a misinterpreted timeline. There may have been good reason for it to be misinterpreted, but that doesn't change what was intended.
@@existentialselkath1264 I don't think it was an intentional retcon, what I'm saying is their explanation that they made after the show aired was damage control for their screw-up and the many other lore failures demonstrate that the timeline on the chalkboard was clearly a screw-up on their behave.
This show destroys the lore.... F:NV is completely removed from the canon because of these events
No it isn't. Todd Howard himself clarified it doesn't. The NCR survives, just not in the chaos of the Boneyard, and New Vegas isn't destroyed.
But.. the arrow points to *after* 2277. Plus this is post-apocalyptic, who's to say they got the date right, or for that matter are teaching the truth?
@@infonode1783 Usually when you're talking about a fall (especially a singular city like Shady Sands) it's has a hard date like the fall of Constantinople which happened in 1453 by the Ottomans. The whole "decline" counter-argument doesn't account for how most of human history has been documented. Even with the fall of the Roman Empire, people debated which date the empire fell (either the breaking the empire in two in 395AD or the day the last emperor was deposed in 476AD), but no one argues that it doesn't have a hard date.
(I just going to keep reposting this rebuttal, because I don't feel like repeating myself again and again for this stupid counter-argument.)
@@LuxLoser Todd Howard doesn’t know jack about lore consistency. Nothing in the game makes any of the lore events in the show make sense.
100%. Todd is so mad his fallouts are lesser then obsidians.
Most of my issues with it are due to it being beholden to Bethesda, but otherwise, you can really tell the actors did their best.
Walter Goggins kills every scene he's in, and Ella Purnell shines again, as expected by Arcane fans.
Man, not you too. I thought you, of all people, would understand how the classic and NV fans would feel at how much this show ruins the Fallout lore and tone just like Bethesda does.
The NCR is my favorite faction in fallout and it all just felt wrong, ya know. That and I was pretty sure that the Brotherhood is a fanatical organization but much more militaristic then cultish because that's how they've been since Fallout 3. I have no idea what they were like before but it was jarring to see how culty they got
Sorry, mate. I appreciate the concern people have over the lore and understand that the show has done some inappropriate touching there of.
But as stated, I’m mostly a casual enjoy-er that treats Fallout like a playground rather than a well read lore scholar
You know what one of main directors of NV and creator of Fallout Tim motherfuker cane things?
He said in his channel that they nailed it. He is not part of staff. Same all main directors of Interplay.
He also was staff senior in NV and he believes can fit in several of the NV endings and he is intriged about what exactly one will choose.
So well you are not Sawyer or Tim caine so...
Have you tried going outside and touching grass?
@KirbyOnCronic I'm pretty picky about touching grass, it's got to be soft enough to do your mom on first
It was mostly inoffensive, but some of the dialogue was a bit shit/cringe.
Probably the highest bar we can clear now.
Let’s hope it’s the start of an improvement trend.
Also, it makes sense that Vault Tec pulled the trigger, all lore points, point to it. It's never said in the games who shot first. Also also, everything is still canon until Todd says otherwise. Keep that in mind.
Bs, the games explicitly state the first shot was fired by China after they lost Alaska.
Why? Remember, America had access to the last patch of oil on the planet. Why would an AMERICAN company start the war?
@@Nobody32990 which game actually states that? Afaik the closest we got is that there were Chinese subs and bombers there and they received a command to launch their nukes. It's a fiction where there's shadow governments involved so I don't find the possibility of meddling gone wrong to be that out of the ordinary.
That being said, I don't really care much for the exact faction that ordered the bombs dropped. The universe is more interesting for the world after the bombs anyway.
Yep I agreee. Also maybe to consider: Vault-Tec already profited massively from a (limited) nuclear exchange once (that one they didn't start as far as we know and given where it happened it's kinda unlikely anyway) and might have tried to trigger another one, only that the result wasn't "limited".
@@Nobody32990 you best go burry your head in the lore, buddy. If for anything else, just for some good reading.
Yeah, I won't watch it on principle. I hate what Bethesda did to the IP. It's over 200 years after the war, the society should have been rebuilt already
No, that’s not what “Bethesda” did to the IP. You’re just plain wrong if you think that if Obsidian/Interplay was in charge, they would want a fully rebuilt world to set their Fallout games in.
What “Bethesda did” lol the franchise was created to be a post apocalyptic RPG series, like wtf
This is brain dead if you want a series to have more than 2 entries
@@itsange02Right now you are wrong, because there's no point in speculating. We can see what is right there and now. You don't know how they would have handled that. And seeing that New Vegas is not about running around and picking apart old world ruins, but about a war between 2 actual nations, I know what my guess is.
HAH 😂😂😂
@@TheHalogen131 I don’t need to speculate, the guy who wrote the Fallout Bible, and was a writer for New Vegas, Chris Avellone, *disapproved* of the NCR approaching nation status. So fine, disagree with one of Fallout’s OGs.
If anything, most likely, the success this series is seeing isn't due to it achieving something where others have failed, but rather that it didn't have a high bar to clear.
Fallout has always been a make your own story game, with no main protag to character assassinate, no consistent tone to botch (old world blues and honest hearts exist in the same game... though that doesn't justify this show doing something serious then immediately turning it on it's head and making a awkward joke out of it...) and no limit to the time period a story can take place in.
Almost anything they make up for this series can be acceptable, the only things they need to worry about with this show is their execution of their og story and characters and how close to the game's established lore they stick. Everything else is fair game.
So there was (almost) no way for them to screw this up, outside of turning it into something like the movie versions of resident evil and monster hunter, with a dash of "the -force- fallout is female".
At least it cleared the bar for a change. 😆 At least for me.
Show shaits on anything related to New Vegas, game that moggs anything released by hacks at Bethesda to date. Just don't watch it.
everything BoS related is garbage, rest is pretty ok compared to most other tv shows from the last few years.
You forgot how they butchered entire premise of the nuclear war and anything related to New Vegas. The rest is not "pretty ok".
The portrayal of the NCR and BOS didn't land for me either.
The FNV fanboys dont realize, 2277 was the year the firsr battle of Hoover Dam happened. Meaning the Legion help kick-start the fall.
Usually when you're talking about a fall (especially a singular city like Shady Sands) it's has a hard date like the fall of Constantinople which happened in 1453 by the Ottomans. The whole "decline" counter-argument doesn't account for how most of human has been documented. Even with the fall of the Roman Empire, people debated which date the empire fell (either the breaking the empire in two in 395AD or the day the last emperor was deposed in 476AD), but no one argues that it doesn't have a hard date.
Why didn't they say the fall of the NCR then? Like the chaulk board is just another poorly thought out piece of the whole Shady Sands fumble.