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10 moments when mainstream artists went prog or fusion
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- čas přidán 20. 11. 2022
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Andy is a drummer, producer and educator. He has toured the world with rock legend Robert Plant and played on classic prog albums by Frost and IQ.
As a drum clinician he has played with Terry Bozzio, Kenny Aronoff, Thomas Lang, Marco Minneman and Mike Portnoy.
He also teaches drums privately and at Kidderminster College
![Dave Weckl - drumtalk [episode 26]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8_1HUcHUqkw/mqdefault.jpg)
Prior to Bohemian Rhapsody...Queen II was as progressive rock as anything at the time IMHO. Love this discussion.
Their best album!
Agreed
Queen II kept being my alltime favorite album until I discovered A Wizard/A True Star by Todd Rundgren. I still love Queen though. Especially the first 4 albums.
Todd Rungren produced L by Steve Hillage. Sounds amazing. Om Nama Shivia (sic) is just beautiful
That's their from top to bottom true prog rock album.. but irrespective of what style it's in, it's an amazing masterpiece! Well chosen sir
Sting didn’t form The Police, it was actually Stewart that formed the band, he discovered Sting playing with Last Exit in a club when he was on tour with Curved Air, he had already had Henry Padovani as the guitarist in the band who was eventually replaced by Andy Summers.
Here is 4 more: Boston - Foreplay/Long Time, Elton John - Funeral for a friend/Love lies bleeding, Journey - Kohoutek, Lou Reed (Live) - Intro to Sweet Jane
Lou Reed hired Steve Howe and other Prog players for his first solo album, which didn't make an impact. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the guitar intro to Sweet Jane was just the guitar wanking common at the time. The playing is good, but kind of typical for hard rock guitarists at the time. I think he really got progressive on Metal Machine Music and John Cale really did so on Church of Anthrax with Terry Riley. Long guitar solos do not equal progressive to me anyway. Reed did hire some great players (Wagner, Hunter, Bruce, Quine) but I don't think of any work he did as truly daring, except MMM. If you think the guitar intro to Sweet Jane is prog, that is your privilege. I heard it, thought it good, but didn't find it particularly daring or adventurous.
@@garygomesvedicastrology I think if you put the guitar playing in context of the time it's more impressive. I agree in and of itself it's nothing special but it's the way that it builds towards a climax that makes it cool.
@@MrMaynardWR Maybe... maybe not. Those guys had done sessions with Alice Cooper, Aerosmith...and in 1973 you had people like Steve Hackett, Steve Hillage, Roy Buchanan, John McLaughlin, and earlier, Hendrix, Clapton, Beck, Winter, May, Howe, Peter Banks and even Allan Holdsworth and McLaughlin recording epic guitar solos.
Wagner and Hunter were indeed pros who knew their instruments, but to identify them as progressive seems a bit of a stretch...to me at least. I think Hunter played guitar on Jack Bruce's Out of the Storm, which I think of as Bruce's least successful solo album.
They knew what they were doing (and elevated that Reed album immensely because they COULD play...but, personally I wouldn't call it Progressive playing. It's good, even great, at parts, and it's one of the few Lou Reed albums I can listen to and not break out laughing at how lame it is. (Disclaimer, which I am sure you guessed; I am not now, nor have I ever been, a Lou Reed fan. But I would have agreed with you had I had the same perception you did. I do not.) They are pros, though, and very proficient players.
@@garygomesvedicastrology Your description seems fairly accurate.
One side of the Grateful Dead's Terrapin Station album is their version of a prog epic. Of course they did a disco version of Dancing in the Streets on the other side of the album, which tended to dissuade prog people. I also think Richard Harris's McArthur Park (written by Jimmy Webb) is prog, with its 5/4 orchestral interlude in the middle. The first two Chicago albums have big prog sections, though the jazzy horns disguise this for most listeners. The compositions of their keyboardist, Robert Lamm, always have dissonant harmonic movements and odd time signatures that are pure prog, which happened before prog really got going elsewhere. Apparently, Steven Wilson agrees, as he just remixed Chicago II and has talked about his admiration for it.
Your points on Stevie Wonder are sooo spot on---he's probably the most "complete" musician we've ever had, spanning so many genres, playing so many instruments... I would also add "So" by Peter Gabriel. He was basically mainstream by the mid 80s, and then created a pretty fusion-y but also one of the poppiest albums of all time on "So", with jazz/session and prog dudes like Manu Katche and Tony Levin all over it... Another one in the 90s is obviously the subversively proggy "Ok Computer" by Radiohead, who were, up until that point, a massive MTV Britpop band. Cool list Andy!
This is one of those channels where the comments section is as exciting as the video. Discovering a lot of music today. Thanks Andy both for the video and the crowd you attract
"Funeral For a Friend" by Elton John is brilliant. Massive modular ARP 2500 multi-track opening, key changes, tempo changes, a compositional suite... It's one of EJ's best tracks- on par with "Ticking," which features John's greatest solo piano performance, coupled with devastating lyrics by Bernie Taupin.
Also "Wild Women of Wongo" by The Tubes, a criminally underrated band, which features a virtuosic brass 6/8 to 2/2 alla breve middle section that Frank Zappa himself could have written.
Agreed
Love The Tubes !
I would also have mentioned this.
The Tubes also had a number of progressive rock tunes in their catalog: "Up From The Deep", "Getoverture", "God Bird Change" (written by fusion artist James "Mingo" Lewis (who put out a great record "Flight Never Ending") who played with the band for a time), "Crime Medley" (a mixture of film and television police drama themes played as a sort of suite), "Telecide", I could go on... Even later period Tubes would sneak a prog or fusion interlude into their music.
Queen, Innuendo... Prog in my book and deserves more love in my opinion.
That story about the wedding is just lovely. You Star!
Great video, Andy! ‘Contusion’ came about because Stevie was heavy into Chick Corea and Return to Forever. He had an accident and was in the hospital and Chick came to visit him. As a “tribute” to Chick, ‘Contusion’ was written.
A bit left field here, but Frankie goes to Hollywood's Welcome to the pleasure dome. The song is over 13 mins long, and it's rumored Trevor Horn and mates played all the parts except for the vocals.
Tears for fears The seeds of love. I always thought the second side or last four tracks on the cd were very prog especially 'Year of the knife Early queen were definitely prog orientated. Brighton rock, March of the Black Queen, The prophet song . Even later songs like The show must go on has a prog interlude.
Some more:
Proggish
Joni Mitchell - Paprika Plains
Supertramp - Fool's Overture
Godley & Creme (from 10CC) - L (album)
Midnight Oil- Nothing Lost Nothing Gained
Chicago - Introduction
The Tubes - Telecide
Elton John - Funeral for a Friend/Love Lies Bleeding
Manfred Mann - Solar Fire and Nightingale and Bombers (albums)
Fusion
Journey - Topaz
Andy Summers - Charming Snakes (album)
David Crosby - Deja Vu
Mick Taylor - Spanish and A Minor
Steely Dan - Aja
Supertramp was a prog band initially. During Even in the Quietest Moments I'd still considered them a prog band in the process of transitioning into commercial territory.
@@rodrigoodonsalcedocisneros9266 so was Journey to an extent until Steve Perry. And Manfred Mann during the Earth Band years.
@@seancassidy674 💯
Your story about playing "We Will Rock You" when the power went out reminded me of this: In 2002 or so I saw the Tony Levin Band at a small venue in Saint Louis. The opening act was The California Guitar Trio. Towards the end of their set these three guys with acoustic guitars played four chords, the opening vocal phrase of "Bohemian Rhapsody," and then the audience caught on and the voices swelled in "Oooor is this fantasy" and it took off from there. Pretty much everyone in the room was singing along, doing the parts, and going for the high notes (often failing, but it didn't really matter at the time). It was one of the most remarkable moments of solidarity through music that I have ever experienced, and it came from what is definitely a prog song.
Imagine having Edward as your teacher. Could it get any better?
Here’s something for you out of left field…. 45 Hundred Times and Mystery Song, two examples where Status Quo dipped their toes into Prog, even if it was only just their little toes…
And Slow Train I would say.
The phenomenal guitar player Keith Levene (Public Image Ltd., early Clash) passed away recently. He had unique and highly inventive sound in the landscape of post-punk but was a huge Steve Howe fan and roadied for Yes before he joined the Clash. He also listed Billy Cobham's "Stratus" as one of his favorite tracks.
There are so many prog/punk crossovers that it completely undermines the general narrative that says punk destroyed prog. It was more an evolution in the same way prog grew out of rock n roll.
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer The more I learn about my favorite bands I learn that Fusion is like the secret source my favourite hard Rock musicians were drawing from. a compilation called Jazz Satellites that mixes Fusion and Post-Punk changed my life. you have Alice Coltrane seguing into 23 Skidoo etc. it started me on a musical journey, I'm still following the threads.. I learned stuff like the fact that Slab! wanted Keith Tippet to guest on their stuff , he was apparently happy to do it but his label stopped it . Kevin Martin compiled the cd he had a band called God that mixed Free Jazz with Swans-y industrial noise. The Pistols used to get stoned to Return to Forever. Kurt Cobain owned Billy Cobham's Spectrum. Reeves Gabrels who was Bowie's right hand man for those final years of glory had guitar lessons from John Scofield and his favourite ever gig was a double header of the Lenny White Band and the J.L.Ponty Band. The Damned roped in Fripp & Lol Coxhill for guest spots and loved early Pink Floyd. Bad Brains started off as RTF loving Fusion guys. anyway love the channel Andy I've learned a lot - and spent a lot on records, its ok I forgive you ;-) Discovered Larry Corryel thanks to you
Andy what about the first three Ultravox albums (the John Foxx era)? They always sounded kind of punk prog to me…
@@fabioalbertani945 ditto Magazine
Keith Levene's bandmates in the Jah Wobble & Jim Walker formed a Jazz Rock group called the Human Condition in 1980-82 that sounded like Dark Magus meets Metal Box. Jim is a huge Jazz guy . he had the same drum teacher as Tony WIlliams and caught loads of gigs at the Jazz Workshop in Boston including a brain meltingly loud Miles gig circa DM, I think we had a conversation about Bill Bruford and I seem to remember Jim was a fan too
Nice list (again)! Andrew Lloyd Webber is a totally fair inclusion, not just for Variations but also because his first hit was a double concept album based on the Passion of Christ, thereby referencing classical forms, and containing plenty of odd time signatures and experimentation with the rock format. The overture is as proggy a track as anyone ever released.The Damned's Curtain Call is self-evidently prog, as is much of Captain Sensible's solo material - if you track down his concept album The Universe of Geoffrey Brown (it's on YT, but not on other streaming as far as I can see), then that's a very enjoyable listen. Totally with you re: Stevie Wonder, Secret Life Of Plants is in my top 5 albums. As for Kate Bush, I think she's mainstream Prog, as were Genesis, Yes and Pink Floyd a few years earlier, all prog but also big-selling mainstream acts. I'm never sure where the border between Art Rock and Prog lies anyway - as far as I can see the most interesting Prog is also Art Rock, and the best Art Rock is also Prog, so after that the discussion just descends into 'good example of the genre vs bad example of the genre' (eg Yes vs Barclay James Harvest).
And you've almost convinced me to check out that Kiss album.
Almost.
You are a man after my own heart!!!! And you are right too about the KISS album but it was a good reason to talk about them...
Great list. I would add Talk Talk's Colour of Spring to the list. A fantastic album!👍
Children's Crusade!! Such a brilliant song , that instrumental bridge is fantastic , one of the least known songs by Sting , but my favorite from his debut album !! Great musicians from that band in the early days of Sting solo Carrer!!!
Sting’s late 80s-early 90s albums (Nothing Like The Sun, The Soul Cages, Ten Summoner’s Tales) are the best of his career, they have a huge jazz and jazz fusion influence.
@@aurinrakkun8589 totally agree!! his first four albums are the best ones by far!! , from Mercury Falling up until this day there are many songs that I like , but don't enjoy those albums as a whole , not as much as the first four!!
Talk Talk ...
Especially the last two ambient-avant albums! I forgot about these great call!!!
The very first track, Liar, on Queen's debut album was prog. That's where they started. Great King Rat was another prog tune on that album. Bohemian Rhapsody and The Prophet's Song were full on prog.
March of the Black Queen.
I remember in college some kids going to that Sting Dream of the Blue Turtles tour and proclaiming themselves jazz fans now.🙂
EL-P's "Cancer for Cure" and Killer Mike's "R.A.P. Music" (both from 2012 and both featuring EL-P's insane production) are the Gong "You" and Yes "Close to the Edge" of hip hop music. Anyone who likes Steve Hillage, Gong, Sextant era Herbie Hancock, or early pre-Dark Side Pink Floyd, would be strongly recommended to check these out!
Daryl Hall's LP 'Sacred Songs' my fave prog album by a mainstream artist.
Stevie Wonder’s Contusion is one of the greatest examples. Happens to be one of the best tunes of all his career (of course far from receiving proper recognition by general public).
Love that piece!
"Bohemian Rhapsody" blew my mind when I was a 14-15 year old kid. It completely changed my way of looking at music. I'm 62 now, and it still blows my mind! The Dream of the Blue Turtle is an amazing album! It gets better with age. Love, Love, Love "Contusion". Stevie's first instrument was drums, ya know. Check out Gino Vannelli's album Brother to Brother (I wrote this before your #10 mention) or Climax Blues Band's "Couldn't Get It Right".
Great video Andy. I love it when mainstream artists stretch out or experiment with different music forms. You briefly mentioned Stevie Wonder's Soundtrack "The Secret Life Of Plants" which must have confounded his fans because it was such a radical departure for him. The opening track "Earth's Creation" if full on Prog to my ears anyway and I love playing it to casual SW fans who only know his hits and ask them who produced it and see the look on their faces when I tell them. "Contusion" is a great instrumental as well and would go on my list as well. Anyway here is my list of Groups Artists either "stretching out" or experimenting in no particular order.
1.Stevie Wonder- "Contusion"
2.Stevie Wonder -"Earth's Creation"
3.Billy Joel-"Prelude/Angry Young Man"
4.Tears For Fears-"Broken-Head Over Heals/Broken"-(suite)
5.The Stranglers-"Down In The Sewer"
6.Magazine'"Back To Nature"
7.Elton John-"Funeral for a Friend/Love Lies Bleeding" (suite)
8.Boston-"Foreplay/Long Time"
9.Supertramp-"Fool's Overture"
10.10CC- "Feel The Benefit"
Another: Visions is every bit a jazz fusion track in my opinion…very reminiscent of early Return to Forever stuff.
The Prophet Song by Queen from A Night at the Opera is pure Prog
I’ve heard Gerry Rafferty: Baker Street on the radio for the first time in my heaviest ELP, Gentle Giant, etc period.
The first 30 seconds of the song sent shivers down my spine. It’s pure Weather Report or Chick Corea!
Edit: Talk Talk had 3 pop albums and then they made _Spirit of Eden_ and _Laughing Stock._
Spirit Of Eden was one of my fave stoner albums. The harmonica player also did great work with New Model Army, a Truly Great unsung band.
I reckon the first mainstream progressive song is December's Boudoir (March, 1968) by Laura Nyro. A highly complex and weird torch song suite from an album recorded with a host of jazz luminaries and future Steely Dan players Chuck Rainey and Hugh McCracken and Paul Griffin.
Eli and the 13th Confession. Great album !
Clever video, thanks Andy. But 2 epic misses: Joni Mitchell (to jazz fusion) and Todd Rundgren (to prog, e.g., A Wizard a True Star and early Utopia albums)
Here's one not many would think of: Cat Stevens -- Foreigner Suite
Cat Stevens has lots of proggy moments on his albums.
I have been arguing for decades that the music of the progressive era was massively influential in post-punk New Wave and that countless punk musicians were in fact progressive rock fans. It's gratifying to hear your impassioned plea for this to be recognised. Your final point about how progressive rock has been kept at a distance by the industry itself is spot on. These were artists who broke musical barriers which scared the living daylights out of record companies run by accountants.
To me that some of Queen's songs are so obviously progressive rock that there's no point even arguing about it. Not that Queen is a prog rock *BAND,* but they have several excellent prog-rock-ish songs.
Years ago I had _"The Elder",_ but I got rid of many Kiss albums when I migrated from vinyl to CD (in the late 1980's and early 90's), and _"The Elder"_ was one of those. I can't say that I remember anything from it, but maybe I should give it another listen. It was also interesting to find out that the record company screwed around with the order of the songs. I wonder if it'd work better if the songs were in the original order.
I totale agree that queen is prog. The Innuendo title track: Super prog song. That Sting song, epic middle section. Thanx!
Prog is stretching the limits. It is open for all musicians to deploy, and for listeners to enjoy.
Your channel has been instrumental in helping me understand the reason I like the post-punk/goth stuff from the 80s (Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Joy Division, Virgin Prunes) and the so-called industrial bands just as much as I like 70s prog, i.e., a lot. And that through line is that they were all highly imaginative, created an atmosphere, had poetic lyrics, and often bizarre or literary themes. I don't know for sure that these post-punk artists were actually listening to prog as you claim - I know they were listening to Bowie, T-Rex, and the Stooges but certainly their choice of subject matter and the fact that they pushed music into new and creative stylistic realms aligns them with prog.
The band Wire and albums like "154" and "Chairs Missing", and Magazine's "Real Life" and "Correct Use of Soap" represent the zenith of prog's influence on proto post punk.
Hi Andy, great show again! Some interesting tips that I will definitely check out, e.g. Dave Grohl; never knew he wrote this epic track! Can I make one suggestion? It would be helpful to see the cover of the albums while you are discussing them. For instance, you included a prog song by Kiss (which I also want to check out), but it's hard to find back after watching the video. Some songs that are on my own "prog from non-progs" playlist:
- [ ] Dire Straits - telegraph road
- [ ] Elton John - funeral for a friend/love lies bleeding
- [ ] Beatles - a day in the life
- [ ] Al Stewart - nostradamus
- [ ] ELO - mr blue sky
- [ ] Meat Loaf - bat out of hell
- [ ] Stranglers - down in the sewer
- [ ] Transvision Vamp - velveteen
- [ ] 10cc - feel the benefit; one night in paris
Even though I am clinically burnt out on Bohemian Rhapsody, I'll be the first to say it is prog.
9th Wave is absolutely prog as well.
For me the biggest moment was when Bobby Darin went from "Splish Splash" to "Mack the Knife"
Sweet dipped its toes into prog waters with the album version of their single "Love Is Like Oxygen". They go all Alan Parsons Project in the instrumental section, from 3:21 to 5:11, and the coda, from 6:08 onwards.
czcams.com/video/kRVwcPTnug8/video.html
I really liked that song. Although IIRC it seemed kind of out-of-place on the album it was on.
Ace Frehley's '78 solo album. Great hard rock playing from Ace (playing most instruments) with Anton Fig on drums and Will Lee on additional bass. Produced by Eddie Kramer, and is the album that really is the thorn in the side of Gene and Paul. Agreed the lyrics have always been lowest common denominator with KISS (and many other hard rock bands of that era), but Ace deserves credit for this gem. Sure it isn't Jaco's "Word Of Mouth", which I adore (I much prefer Weather Report's "The Elders" off Mr Gone than The Elder), but when I put on Ace '78, I regress back to a 10 year old finding his musical feet. You're welcome ;)
I had to laugh about your comments on the KISS concerts you attended. I eventually saw KISS on one of their (many) farewell tours -- "Don't try to describe a KISS concert if you've never seen it." (Jimmy Buffett, "Mañana") -- and I remember emailing one of my closest music fans at the time that I enjoyed the spectacle, the songs (almost all of which I was quite familiar with, since I grew up during KISS's heyday) remained incredibly catchy, but I could summarize the level of lyrical content with a single chorus: "Lick it up! Lick it up! Oh-Oh-Oh!"
Bowie .. Diamond Dogs .. Low .. Heroes, Scary Monsters .. Lodger .. Omar Hakim too played drums in the 80's for Bowie. Rain 'Singularity' I got the other day .. really good ... :-)
Glad you enjoyed the Rain album...mixing album two at the moment
Andy! I love your videos. I am Prog head and I agree, Queen's BR is Prog to my ears and it is damn good. Oh yes! :) :) I listened to the Dammed song for the first time and I like it!
Great video. A couple I would mention: The Carpenters cover of Calling Occupants; David Gates Suite Clouds & Rain.
Yes. Curtain Call. That was astonishing at the time. Never thought someone would mention that on one of these prog channels. Bravo.
The Damned are no surprise. Sensible in particular was a huge fan of Soft Machine and used to turn up to their gigs dressed as Mike Ratledge complete with shades, wig and stick on 'tache!
New Damned album just released !
First two I thought were Contusion and Funeral For a Friend. You're right about the 80s and it being hard to find the jazz fusions LPs we wanted... wasn't until the 90s and CDs until I heard even something like Herbie Hancock's Thrust for instance...
Great list. Thoughtful with things I’ve never thought of. I’m off to check out that Damned song. Lol
Cat Steven’s Foreigner Suite is an interesting 18 minute prog epic...kind of funky too.
His Numbers album is pretty prog too
I read somewhere a long time ago, that Freddie Mercury admitted taking inspiration and ideas from watching Peter Gabriel performing on stage with Genesis…
Yes " Variations " I remember a music teacher at school playing us this. My mate and I were Prog fans and thought an Andrew Lloyd Webber album was going to be pure garbage .We went out the next day and bought it. A prog album that holds up today and as you say is full of great Prog and Fusion players. Cheers.
absolutely agree about Queen - queen 2 is an out and out prog album
I (nearly) completely forgot about Rick Beato's channel when I stumbled upon Andy's...yes, I'm exaggerating here, but I'm sure, some of you will acquire my drift anyways.
I just discovered Rick Beato recently! What a great channel! I love the guests and insight he provides!!! Thanks for sharing.
Beato imo just appeals to conservative rock fans who want to hear current music is crap to fell comfort in the past
Kendrick Lamar album To Pimp A Butterfly 🦋: totally prog
Good list. Might I suggest Mark King's The Essential? Takes up all of side A of his Influences album with vertuosity, time changes, complexity, amazing solos and of course...great drumming from Mark himself.
Andy, I could not agree with your more about what the mainstream music press has done to tear down the influence of the best progressive music. Been sacrificing my "indie cred" for years with this opinion but somehow much of the music continues to be highly influential...Thanks for your well reasoned and articulated opinions....
I would include a lot of Argent's material; and Manfred Mann's Chapter 3 and Earth Band incarnations were really great.
mick taylor has a song on his debut album called Spanish / A Minor ....12 minutes of pure slow proggy fusion, best song on the album, i bought it for this song alone. (instrumental as well)
If you keep doing videos this good you may be allowed back in the house and not have to wear your winter coat
I love your videos, so much to learn from the music universe, but I think you assume some of us know all of those performers, it will be great to have some of this CZcams videos you mention with the link or even some Spotify playlists. 😎😎😎
Good video.
Great points regarding the wide availability of all kinds of great music nowadays. And yes, Bohemian Rapsody is a prog masterpiece.
Curtain Call was the first song Dave Vanian wrote, with a lot of help from Scabies. They regularly play it live.
New watcher, and love the channel!
A bit on Dream of the Blue Turtles:
The version of "Shadows in the Rain" on that record is a full-on fusion burner, and has IMHO one of THE greatest keyboard solos of all time.
K Kirkland absolutely KILLS it, and it may be said his synth tone helps the expressiveness of it; absolutely hair-raising. It's up there with Chick and Jan for expressiveness on a electronic instrument, even though he was known as a neo-McCoy with Wynton's band.
Kinda makes Branford's solo afterward a bit mundane.
I'm a bit late to the party! But when I started watching this video I was half expecting you to include The Damned's 'Curtain Call', so glad you did. Just for info the double vinyl that came out in 1980 included a side of live songs. When it first came out on CD later in the 80s it was the live side that got dropped not Curtain Call.
Other notes... yes Bohemian Rhapsody is prog. Yes, The Ninth Wave is prog so happy you included that one as well.
Queen - yes
Great episode. Loads of good points. But I'm sorry but I would argue the Melotron was the first sampler and was used by many bands in the 70's.Sounds recorded onto a playback medium. Isn't's that what a sampler is at its core? Kate Bush occasionally crosses the prog line. In her collaborations with Gabriel, Phill Collins, David Gilmore she goes there but over her entire career it's about 4%. So eh... AS far as Andrew Lloyd Weber is concerned, I think you need to add Jesus Christ Superstar as a Proggesque Album. Odd time signatures, complex song forms and maybe the first concept album. Sounds like Prog to me.
Avant garde composers were using tape to incorporate found sounds as early as possibly the forties. Herman s score for Devil and Daniel Webster includes 'samples' of electricity passing through power cables. What the Fairlight system was revolutionary and changed how music was created. That was what I was referring to.
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer So I don't dispute that composers were using recorded sounds in the era you reference. However I'm guessing those sounds were recorded and played back on a tape recorder or cylinder. And even though the mellotron did not do the recording of sounds "on board" it did allow players to "trigger" the sampled sounds from a piano keyboard. Much like the Linn drum machine which came along shortly after and could be loaded with drum samples and triggered by pads. I also remember having an Akai S9000 Sampler and a Syn-Clavier in our studio approximately the same era (my memory is is little fuzzy from the 80's . I used to do a lot of drugs in the 80's now I don't care what temperature it is;-) So perhaps it would be fair to say the Fairlight was one of the 1st if not the 1st digital sampler. Unfortunately we never own one but I did have opportunities to work on one at a competing studio. It was very cool at the time. Especially being I was in Chicago and all those things came from the UK apart from the Akai but they were still very hard to get. I felt pretty lucky having had access to that technology. BTW I still own a functional Mellotron. O.k. I've blathered on long enough. If you made it this far kudos to you. Love the channel. Love the topics you pick. Perhaps you might do an episode on top 10 progg/fusion violinists. Anyway, Cheers mate!
We grew up with Stevie. Little Stevie Wonder did a song called Fingertips when he was 11 - it set the AM radio on fire - "Na, na na na na, na na na na-na-na-na-na-na -na, na na na na..." and into the Land of a Thousand Dances. You had to be there. They couldn't take our transistor radios away. Batteries were our challenge.
Once again you’ve made me listen to my old records with a new ear. Not only that, taking me onwards and outwards from a fairly peripheral touch on jazz and fusion………thank you, Andy, for getting my ears back into action!
….and good to hear you mention Jon Hiseman and Colosseum! John Mayall roots, Tony Reeves and Dave Greenslade - great stuff!
Enjoyed this discussion very much. By taking a specific topic, you were able to address a lot of issues and artists.
Your mention of bassist Herbie Flowers reminded me of his band Sky. Any chance you'll look at some of their rock-classical-fusion discography in the future?
Carlos Santana albums, Caravanserai, Borboletto and then his solo Devadip Carlos Santana albums, all fusion jazz to the core.
The sequence of Stevie Wonder albums Music of My Mind, Talking Book, Innervisions, Fulfillingness' First Finale and Songs In the Key of Life is perhaps the greatest consecutive run of releases by any artist other than The Beatles, Elton John, Bob Dylan, Gordon Lightfoot, Led Zeppelin and maybe David Bowie. It is spectacular, and it is definitely largely jazz fusion.
I also want to mention XTC and their albums Apple Venus Volume 1 and Wasp Star (Apple Venus Volume 2). Now it can be argued that XTC have always (or nearly always) been a progressive or fusion band, but they certainly make it much more evident on these two albums.
Speaking of moving from pop/mainstream to fusion, what about the transformation of Joni Mitchell's music over time? She almost became a pure jazz artist, let alone fusion! But in 1980, somewhat before she went all the way into her jazz phase, she released a live album called Shadows and Light (accompanied by concert video footage) where her backup band consisted of Pat Metheny, Lyle Mays, Jaco Pastorius, Don Allas and Michael Brecker. Talk about JAZZ FUSION!!!
wrote a whole descriptive bit about Blackstar by Bowie qualifying for this category but the computer crashed so this terse passage will have to suffice grr!
was chatting about that album today...I still have not listened to it but it sounds fanatastic. Bowie definitely flirts close to prog though
the 10 minute title track/single is totally up your alley , sax, keys and drums reminds me of Miles in 70. (can't speak to the album itself) obviously got tons off play on the Music TV channels as a result of David's sad passing I wondered at the time what the pop kids made of the unearthly 10 minute video and reflections on mortality :D
Kate Bush has been doing experimental music her whole career, with really quirky stuff popping up every now and then, that makes you go mmmm.. thinking of 50 words for snow for example.
Another superb video.Andy Iam glad.you.mentioned The.Damned and Topper Headon of The Clash ,best Drummer to come out of Punk era . He could play so many different styles Check out Sandinista
This was nice. Our culture of consumption lives and dies on relatability. Over-ratig average talent while invisibilizing objective proficiency and excellet works and their obvious influence is very important to maintain this sense of "the relatable artist" that is "one of us" being at the top of what´s possible.
Or people don't care about stuff that's unnecessarily complicated and showing off
Recommended: "Beyond the Moon" on Max Webster's "Mutiny Up My Sleeve" - they're best known for their song "Battle Scar" (performed with Rush, two bands with all associated equipment in the same room) but BtM is the most prog thing they ever did though some bits of their discography have a nod to it ("Live Magnetic Air" shows they were a killer live band).
SPINAL TAP TOPS THIS LIST
3 bass players on Big Bottom ,nothing more prog than that lol
I also always had a soft spot for Storm at Sunup.
McCartney and Wings get surprisingly proggy on the London Town album, specifically Morse Moose and the Grey Goose, which is very nearly full-on prog!
Composing...the most important thing.
Radiohead and Talk Talk drifted into prog.
I would add Bruce Hornsby's "Harbor Lighst". Maybe one of the most harmonically dense radio songs ever. Plus Pat Methany and Jimmy Haslip jamming at the end! Playing in the grocery store!
Steely Dan's "Aja" the OTHER most harmonically dense radio song ever. A fair amount of WHO tracks dip into prog/fusion.
"Queen II" surely has it more overtly prog moments. "Ogre Battle" Black Queen" Fairy Feller's Master Stroke" . Even "Father to Son and "White Queen"-stick some Mellotron and Mini-Moog on any of these tracks and there would BE NO question as to the proginess.
Agree about early 70s Stevie Wonder. Maybe the greatest individual creative streak in recorded popular music.
37:09 Andy, I highly recommend you check the whole "Creatures of the Night" album, the I Love It Loud sound didn't get there by chance, the whole album sounds crisp and powerful, like a heavier version of Led Zep. It's probably their best work ever, many Kissfans acknowledged it as their best work, even though it's not among their biggest selling ventures. There are many songs in the album where Paul actually sings in a very hair metal way, but these songs are great, and the ones Gene sings in are absolutely amazing. "War Machine" is a hidden gem for non Kissfans.
- Manfred Mann Chapter Three - Manfred Mann Chapter Three (1969) has already been mentioned but it is a striking example of a popular band enjoying singles chart hits venturing into 'Brass Rock'
- 10cc - The Original Soundtrack (1975) Some proggy things happening on 'I'm Not In Love' and the three-part suite 'Une Nuit A Paris'
- Blondie - 'Fade Away And Radiate' (with Fripp)
- The Stranglers - The Raven (1979) - lots of prog influences, especially 'Longships' and 'The Raven'
- Joy Division - Closer (1980) - Lots of prog influences here, especially the use of synths (sounds like a mellotron at times) on tracks such as 'The Eternal' and 'Decades'
- Howard Jones - A classically trained pianist whose very successful early albums Human's Lib (1984) and Dream Into Action (1985) have lots of prog-style synths on instrumentals, as well as his beautifully crafted single 'Hide And Seek'. Howard's music is one of my guilty pleasures...
For the Italian friends of your channel:
Italy had some mainstream artists who also did prog and stayed mainstream
Franco Battiato e.g.
Australia please report: Australia too?
Two notable examples of Aussie rock bands that went prog:
Goolutionites and the Real People (1970) by Tamam Shud.
A Toast to Panama Red (1972) by The Master's Apprentices. Opeth are big fans of the Master's, as evidenced by their song Masters Apprentices.
I can't really think of any other mainstream Aussie acts that went prog. Maybe King Gizzard...
Excellent call on Franco Battiato!!!! "Sulle Corde Di Aries" and "Chic" are so out there that they may scare the shite out of a more traditional prog fan that likes Genesis or Yes LOL! Both albums represent a perfect conglomeration of classical, experimental electronics like the VCS3, free jazz, wildly unconventional song structures, and "Meddle" era Pink Floyd. Highly recommended for those that like truly challenging music!
@@lupcokotevski2907 being from South Australia, thanks for those recommendations.
@@tonypeake467 No worries. Cheers.
Battiato made three prog masterpieces at the beginning of his career: "Fetus", "Pollution" and "Sulle Corde di Aries"; it is very unique the way he used the VCS3. Then he moved in avantgarde territories with "Click", "Madamoiselle LeGladiator" and "L'Egitto prima delle Sabbie". From "L'era del cinghiale bianco" he became master in the pop genre, but always with a prog and experimental soul in it.
Guess what my favourite Kiss album is - yep (music from) The Elder, and its my favourite possibly because its the least Kiss like - though unlike yourself I do like a lot of their catalogue, great for times when you just want something less complex and a bit throwawayish.
I've argued many times before that Bohemian Rhapsody is as prog as you're going to get so no quarrels on that one.
Stevie Wonder - I stumbled across his live in NYC 75 album, which has some great playing on it - it wasnt what I'd usually say would have been ,as the Americans would say, 'in my wheelhouse', but helped me to expand my muscial vocabulary.
Hadnt heard the Dave Grohl - streamed it, fantastic.
Hadnt heard the Damned - streamed it, fantastic - thought it was a sort of post punk/goth equivalent to Supper's Ready.
Watched the Thundercat & Ariana Grande - never ever thought I'd spend ten minutes listening to anything with Ariana Grande on it - watching her reminded me a bit of Leslie Hunt fronting District 97 for some reason.Good stuff.
Sting and Kate Bush - yep, no arguments there, and even shorter songs like Cloudbusting have that underlying prog element.
Gino Vanelli - had a lot of great fusion playing across his catalogue. The keys on the Gist of the Gemini were by Richard Baker who also contributed (amongst a cast of many others) to Yes' Union album , as well as programming synths on ELP's in the Hot Seat (though thats not necessarily one I'd shout about) Of course drums on Gemini was the fantastic Graham Lear who presumably helped get Baker the job with Santana for a few of his albums?
Other 'pop' artists who may have had a bit of prog or fusion - David Essex Imperial Wizard off the same titled album and who Jeff Wayne produced leading to him getting a key role on War of the Worlds; a number of Chris De Burgh tracks before he met the Lady in Red; various New Romantics like Duran Duran and Spandau Ballet had their moments, Ultravox, Nik Kershaw - loads that you covered in a previous video talking about how a lot of pop in the 80's has prog DNA running through it.
Sweet on Level Headed were off in a proggy direction on a lot of it and the follow up album. John Miles whose major hit Music is possibly as prog as Bo Rhap, and he had a few other progtastic pieces on his albums - most proggy probably the Zaragon album (and whats more prog than an album title like that? - and there was a Danish neo Prog band from the late 70's that called themselves after that) and of course Miles played on a few Alan Parsons albums, that also featured most of the band Pilot who also had hit singles like January and Magic.
A highly eclectic and controversial selection, for sure. It reminds us that 'progressive' is a concept, not a particular style or sound. 'Strawberry Fields' was progressive. The Yardbirds' 'Shapes of Things', 'Over Under Sideways Down' and 'Happenings 10 Years Time Ago' were prog before the term existed. Ditto Vanilla Fudge, whose 1967 debut album initiated the concept as a form, with whirling Hammond, soaring vocals, instrument virtuosity and daring explorations beyond the pop norm. Some of Cream's album tracks including 'What A Bringdown', 'Those Were the Days', and 'Pressed Rat & Warthog' definitely stretched that norm. Indeed, that trio was one of the first bands to prompt the dual genre moniker - blue rock. After this came jazz rock, progressive rock, fusion rock, art rock etc.
The inclusion of 'Variations' was a left fielder, for sure, with your elaboration on Jon Hiseman and the lads from Colosseum II welcomed by me, a big admirer of Hiseman since his time with John Mayall's Bluesbreakers (prior to that he took Ginger Baker's spot in the Graham Bond Organisation when the fiery drummer split to form Cream, then filled Mitch Mitchell's place in Georgie Fame's Blue Flames after Mitch and the original band were dismissed...and he hooked up with Hendrix a day or two later). Colosseum were jazz-rock with prog elements, for sure, though Colosseum II were a bit late to the game and thus sounded very derivative. I recall one tune sounding very much like it would have fit on Jeff Beck's 'Wired' album.
Just a mention that Ollie Halsall of Patto also played with Tempest. He was enlisted to add vocals and second guitar to Holdsworth's, though the latter soon departed the lineup.
Kate Bush is a great inclusion. The fact that her music is impossible to categorise highlights the reality that she is actually progressive prog. I mean, 40+ years after 'Wuthering Heights' and that music remains as unique as ever.
And you are right, Gino Vannelli is in a space of his own. More players need to hear his music and his musicians, particularly the recordings of the 70s and very early 80s. His live performances continues to be killer, though album-wise it is the early records that best exemplify those things that put him on the radar for this conversation.
Now I will go listen to 'Love It Loud' by KISS and 'Curtain Call' by the Damned. I am no fan of either, though for the sake of maintaining and open mind....
Show your dog on the next one. Thanks.
Will do
"Contusion" is a song that I've loved since Song In The Key Of Life was released in 1976. It wasn't until I saw an interview with Stevie's guitarist Michael Sembello that I realized that he was channeling jazz legend Pat Martino when he played the guitar parts on that recording. Michael studied extensively with Pat Martino in Philadelphia. He brought all of his notes from the Martino lessons with him when he got the gig with Stevie. If you check out this video @2:30, Michael graciously acknowledges using Pat's lines for "Contusion":
czcams.com/video/FJ-kBgbAwhE/video.html
Although the interview (a Pat Martino tribute video) is edited in such a way that the name of the track is not mentioned, it is very obvious to any fan of Stevie that he is talking about Contusion. Andy - if you haven't heard Pat Martino's two 1976 fusion albums (Starbright & Joyous Lake) then you need to!
Lloyd Webber's Variations was (correct me if I'm wrong) only his arrangement of Rachmaninov's Variations on a theme by Paganini. He did not compose it.
Please make a video about Joni Mitchell and particularly please talk about Wayne Shorter and also about Shadows and Light (Mingus) with Pat Metheny, Lyle Mays, Jaco Pastorius, Don Alias & Michael Brecker.
Has Kate Bush ever NOT been prog?
She made some straight ahead pop songs but yes, in general she was a progressive pop/rock artist.
I'd say that some of her songs really fit the mold of Art Rock instead of Progressive Rock. Some of her songs are prog rock, but not all of them (IMO).
She has given an interview to Prog magazine where she talked about going to prog gigs with her brother. It was so obviously an influence and by her third album she was pushing things as far as any prog act. Like Queen, she could write at great pop song and a challenging piece of art / prog rock.
Another great topic And video
I’m going to say Welcome to the Pleasuredome ( Album Version ) by Frankie Goes to Hollywood
Thanks for directing me to great music
Great selections Andy.
Led Zeppelin's In The Light
Ambrosia debut album
Boston's Foreplay
Journey's first two albums
Allman Brothers Band instrumental tracks
Queen's March Of The Black Queen, The Prophet Song, Bohemian Rhapsody
Deep Purple's Wring That Neck
Black Sabbath's Rat Salad
Marshall Tucker Band's This Old Cowboy
James Gang's The Bomber
Poco's Nobody's Fool El Tonto Suite
America's Hat Trick Suite
BTO's Looking Out For #1
ELO's first two albums
Early REO Speedwagon albums had some proggy tunes, Dead At Last
Pablo Cruise' Ocean Breeze
have some proggy or jazzy leanings
I couldn't resist. The double guitar in the thumbnail has a Gibson SG mashed with a Fender Strat (Tele?). C'mon, lads and lasses, altogether now!.... "twenty-first century skitzoid man...".
A Term that means something Different in German than in Englisch is Klassikrock, means in German doing Klassik Musik with a Rock Beat and Electricity. In English this would be a Subgenre of Progrock.
Velvet Underground is for many People who rather do not like Progrock a perfect Example for Art Rock and so are the Talking Head. But sometimes People call their guilty Progrock Pleasures Art Rock because they hate to admit that Henry Cow is Progrock.
Basically: If Rock is coupled with Classical Music it is Progrock, but Pere Ubu could never be called Prog, so it is Art Rock. And yes: Henry Cow is Art Rock as well as Progrock but Progrock they were.
My favorite Klassik Rock Tune ever is:
Bohemian Rapsody.
The Bee Gees were a great vocal harmony pop group in the late 60s, sometimes reminiscent of some Beatles and they went a bit proggy on the Odessa album and a few later ones. Then of course they went full on disco, to the early fans chagrin.