Has Pep Guardiola invented a new formation?
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- čas přidán 16. 08. 2023
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Pep Guardiola has invented somewhat of a new formation, that sees his goalkeeper become part of the back line. Confused? JJ Bull explains.
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Turns out Boehly was actually a tactical genius suggesting a 4-4-3 to Tuchel
If only Tuchel had listened
Tuchel even played a 3-4-3 so he knew he needed to stick the keeper in Defense. Boehly masterclass
That man is a genius.
Poor Kane should have joined Chelsea😢
Goddamnit I was about to say the same damn thing. Well done sir
Finally, a formation that utilized 11 players instead of 10
@@mosaabtwice3999and Thiago Motta
@@mosaabtwice3999 imo they didn’t execute it as good I they’d hope so
@@kevinbonilla1931He had the unfair advantage of being a Cruyff system player
@@tanamlylol that’s not advantage. That’s his brain. 500 players learned somehow with cryuff. Why only guardolia is best
@@WolfofAsia012 the insight
Next season Pep will be using Ederson as a pitch-pitch player and having him up front with Halland. It will work too knowing Pep
It will be known as the 11th man run
My man just finished watching inazuma eleven
When Ederson is upfront then Haaland will help with the defense being a secondary armless goalkeeper
I can't wait to see Onana and Ederson man marking each other in the Manchester derby next season.
@@ogbmt lmao...
Maybe we were all too hard on Todd Boehly
I see what you did there
So, it's like an improved version of utilising the sweeper keeper role?
or onana
It is exactly that, and nothing new at all.
... but Pep is doing it so it is amazing.
The term "sweeper" has defensive connotations. This is primarily in buildup play. It's not necessarily new, it's just an adaptation of the old and Pep wasn't necessarily the first to so it within games even recently (Inter last season and Ajax previously), although he's doing it with more frequency.
@@BlackChrishi Ajax and Inter did this because they had Onana and he plays like a ball playing defender and goes up the pich very ofthen.
Pep either saw that and tried to implement it in his team or just came to that conclusion from the problems his team had in the prem.
@@stefankatsarov5806Or he got it from his previous manager stints cause he’s always utilized a ball playing gk
He commonly used this 'formation' against teams whom the head coaches were his 'Students' /worked together i.e: Arteta-Arsenal, Kompany - Burnley, Ten Hag - Man utd (they had a brief stint when Pep was the coach in Bayern)
no actually bayern nagelsmann used this formation in his first year at bayern in 2021
You will soon see formations cease to exist outside of the starting lineup. I’m not kidding.
The concept of total football will become the only way to play, with a few players that are exempted due to either a defensive or attacking role, but still those players will cover a general area. I've seen it already unless the team works like a fine tuned machine then it's no use having a formation.
The formations will never go away. They are still needed structurally to create passing lanes against an opponent. Although, I fully expect players like Harry Kane, to be more common as strength, hold up play and coming back to the ball to help facilitate the team as a whole becomes much more common.
it's already kind of like that. pretty much every team has a different formation when theyre in or out of possession. the roles players have and where they can go on the pitch are oversimplified into a formation
They already are to be honest
That's already more or less what we're seeing in basketball, in terms of the traditional positions.
Pep once buttered his bread, mindboggling stuff from the tactical genius.
no actually bayern nagelsmann used tgis formation in his first year at bayern in 2021
I wouldn’t be surprised if pep thinks two seasons ahead. Use a formation that everyone else will copy and one that he knows he can beat and then create a formation to beat it the season after when everyone else is a season behind. What a tactical genius he is
Goat
So true. He sets the blueprint then beats it. Best manager ever
no actually bayern nagelsmann used tgis formation in his first year at bayern in 2021
@@setho-by8ds no actually bayern nagelsmann used tgis formation in his first year at bayern in 2021
@@psychobuddy17 no actually bayern nagelsmann used tgis formation in his first year at bayern in 2021
Rene Higuita would be perfect for this system.
Pep is a student of the game, like all of us are right now. He can't invent anything because they already invented this stuff long ago. Fillol, the Argentine keeper from 1978 WC, played like this. Even the Dutch Keeper from the World cups of 74 and 78 was used so except they used the backpass a lot in those days.
No one invents anything. We all stand on the shoulders of giants
Dutch keeper is Jan Jongbloed
@@hoi-bm4lv I know, I just could not spell his name from the top of my head.
Thank you. Thank you for saying this
Yeah, 4-2-5 is indeed a new and revolutionary formation that no one has the answer to counter 🧐
Tbh, futsal has the way to use goalie in a match
Have your keeper press theirs. All the way up the pitch, you've heard of "sweeper keeper" now get ready for "No keeper"
And also commenting to yourself
@@yakisoba9377can't wait for the revolutionary no keeper vs double keeper tactic
@@TheS1lentX and the offensive goalkeeper striker hybrid !
This guy replied to himself lmao
It's not really a new formation, it's just a tweak to the pre-existing formation that he gets to make because his goalkeeper is good enough on the ball to allow him to. I see it more as reintroducing the libero of catenaccio by making the goalkeeper the extra libero defender in line with the 3 central defenders. I wouldn't call it a truly "new" formation since it still uses the W-M base formation but has an added temporary tweak in possession if pressed. For example in a 433 if the pivot drops between the centre backs and the fullbacks go high and wide, you wouldn't say he's now playing a 343, because it's only a transitional state rather than the base shape.
I first used this formation in FIFA 19. Pep stole my whole flow and won a Champions League with it🥶 i want my royalties.
That's not an achievement pal
managers countering with a 5-2-4🗿
Teams have been doing in this for a while now, even the box midfield is not invented or even popularised by Pep, Tuchel used it the season before. Not sure why Pep gets credit for everything
Coz he wins, and I'm sure football fraternity is sad coz amaxing doesn't rate pep
@@souravdeb4325 tuchel won the ucl in his first season no bullshit "progress" pep simply has the barca pr
Tuchel didnt use the box midfielder with an defender going into midfield to become th extra defender. Pep took the risk and used his defender as tbe extra midfielder...thats why he gets the credit. You dont know ball than most of the world. If Tuchel made it popular no one would give credit to Pep. You are just a hater!
@@ato-blakussam-acquah1557 sadly you don't know ball either because Pep wasnt the first to give his centre back a free role.
@st_ates_2563 I didn't say free role...I said midfielder I was specific...cry more!
Boehly is a philosophical genuis
suddenly Pep made 11v11 football match an 11v11 futsal game
It's 2027 and a 34 year old Ederson is the league's top goalscorer with Pep's revolutionary tactics of using the keeper as a shadow striker.
I feel like Pep will advance so much in tactic's he'll eventually just cycle back to playing a 1-1-8 like in the 1800s
No he just copies tactics then tweaks them and then uses the billions he has to buy everyone not the goat
@@echo5935 ...yeah bro, that's the job of a manager lmao, to change tactics and win matches. And it isn't about spending billions, cause if it was, then Chelsea would always win the Premier League and PSG would've had a UCL at this point. Keep coping.
From a catenaccio and defensive football fan, Guardiola is someone GENIUS, damn
When explained, this is actually the best formation in football history.
This is what Ange was doing at Celtic last year
It's literally Tuchel's Chelsea formation with Stones impersonating Rudiger
Didn't Thiago Motta start this?
By "this" I mean using the goalkeeper as an outfield player.
I remember seeing it used by him for the PSG reserve team if I'm not mistaken.
nah, hes the best so its gotta be him who started this first 😌😌
@@XNAGPjoking i see
That's AMAZING, imagine how good a keeper must be and how much they must read the game to avoid meltdown if they lose the ball AND the recovery tactics for when this do happen. Imagine how tougher to be a keeper will be in the future as the position becomes more and more similar to the guys who only use their feet (hardest position in the game???).
I remember the u-17 manager for psg thought of this tactic a couple years ago with pushing the GK in place like a CB so the field is less compact and more options are available
If not that it didn't quite work for Graham Potter, that's the more reason this credit is being given to Pep Guardiola. Potter was the first prem manager to do crazy experiments like this with his goalkeepers. The main reason that saw the downfall of Edu Mendy. His attackers just couldn't score to save their own lives
4 2 5… I think the return of Juanma has a pivotal impact on how city will play this season
few years ago Thiago Motta talking the same idea but with different formation
Remember, pep tried to play Neuer as an outfield player
Pep has been using box midfield since he came in 2017
Which he copied from thiago motta and others
Thiago Motta actually wanted to implement this tactic when he was PSG U19's manager, quote "The goalkeeper counts as one of the midfield seven. For me, the attacker is the first defender and the goalkeeper is the first attacker. The goalkeeper starts the play, with his feet and the attackers are the first to put pressure to recover the ball."
I think Thiago Motta meant his 2-7-2 formation horizontally rather than vertically where 2 on either side are the full back and winger on either side which leaves 6 outfield players in the middle ( 2 CBs, 3 Mids and 1 Forward ), in this shape the goalie would join the middle unit of 6 to make it 7, so essentially he was just describing a standard 4-3-3 with a sweeper keeper
Excellent format
I used to do this formation on fifa 14 in online seasons with Argentina. Messi and Tevez as the 2 attacking mids. Aguero LW, Higuain as striker and Di Maria RW.
well if you think about it it's kinda ridiculous that we still have mostly stationary goalies, after all the evolution of the game until now. it takes balls to try tho, since it can obvioustly compromise your defensive abilities if the goalie is not a good enough outfield player
Pep didn’t create the box formation but he mastered it
Yea I’m fairly sure wolves have used that same formation before but there wolves so obviously all there games go unnoticed end in slight victories, slight losses or draws
tbh this has been seen in preseason with other managers too, alisson has been doing it for a little while and it also gives more space for trent to receive the ball if alisson moves back towards his goal, as alisson moves up to the right of van dijk
How
Graham Potter was doing this with Robert Sanchez at Brighton, worth a look
Gk's will be training as both an outfield and a goalkeeper now.
I was watching arsenal vs Sheffield United and David Raya did exactly this standing next to Saliba
The confidence to do this is unreal
I think that my proudest moment was in fm23 when i created a tactic that I called "Saca sin lateral" which was 3-2-4-1. Some time later, like some weeks, y check on a Man City game and pep had my custom tactic from fm in his game. I was partly shocked and partly proud, as weird as it may sound, I created one of pep's tactics (its obvious its not the same. I'm only an fm player and he is Pep, but still kinda funny thinking about my luck xd)
It sounds more like di Stefano to me than Messi, Messi was labelled as a forward rather than a midfielder (although maybe that's because throughout Messi's career, the 10 position wasn't as common as it's becoming now)
How long till the keeper gets lobbed...
The earliest iteration I’ve seen of this was Bayern under Hansi flick, he had Alphonso pushing up and Pavard as a right back staying back to make a 3 at the back
Thiago motta did this first
@@echo5935imagine replying to over 100 comments on one post and still not realising it’s not about who does it first it’s about who does it best.
feel like ten hag tried to do this in Uniteds game against wolves but the midfield simply struggle to play bag to goal and weren’t press resistant enoug
Didn't Thiago Motta suggest doing this but it like a 2-7-2 with 2 players on each wing and 7 though the middle including the keeper
Jorge Sampaoli in brazil already use the goalkeeper like a line player.
He didn't introduce the box midfield... Brighton were playing it before city.
Probably some teams outside England as well, that I'm not aware of.
But that’s not just from Guardiola. 2.Division Club Hamburger SV ist playing with the exact role for the keeper for 2,5 years straight. And it works 👌🏻
This is the earlier back 3, but with the gk pushing way higher.
Todd Boehly looking at this going like "YOU ALL LAUGHED AT ME, WELL YOU NOT LAUGHING NOW ARE YOU?". 😂
Honestly with the increased importance of having a goalkeeper good with their feet I’m surprised it took this long to do this. Also, I’m kind of surprised nobody has tried to do a sweeper keeper/Libero hybrid if a goal keeper’s over the top passing is particularly good.
The box midfield was invented 100 years ago by Arsenal’s Herbert Chapman. We used to call it the WM.
In reality Ederson doesn’t actually push up that high very often. I’ve seen raya do this at arsenal a few times this season as well but it’s very rare. It’s just too risky to constantly move your keeper into that position regardless of how good they are in possession. I highly doubt this will become a long term thing, I mean as I said Ederson and raya barely even ever do it now lmao
Oh look someone’s discovered total football for the first time
I’ve seen Liverpool do this with Allison more than city and pep
4-2-5 I was playing that on FIFA career mode about 15 years ago when I spent all my budget on forwards
Liverpool been doing this since last season too, just with Alisson staying in the box
4-2-5 formation, literally the goalkeeper playing outfield in possession is before GTA 6😭
That's precisely how they scored against Newcastle. Walker pushing out wide when the forwards pressed.
Sampaoli was doing that earlier this year with Flamengo, can't say if it was a succes, but it has been done before, so saying "guardiola invented it" is kinda silly, but well, that's how eurocentrism works
Pep actually did this a few times at Bayern. Its interesting to see him going back into his archive of experiences from his time at Bayern, which in my opinion, most defines him as a coach.
He copies tactics then tweaks them and then uses the billions he has to buy everyone not the goat
@@echo5935 Absolutely terrible take. Everything has already been done. Only thing you can do is find new ways to implement them and he does it consistently with great success. Theres a reason why everyone else is always copying him and trying to play catch up.
Funny thing is Thiago Motta did this I 2016-2017 I'm pretty sure, but did have such player's
Sounds like a modified version of the Magic Diamond from 80's France
This tactic would work great with Neuer
I love Pep but we greatly exaggerate his tactical innovations.
I agree. Every team he has managed was stacked with world class talent.
Ikr next season they'll be writing equations and formulas to explain his tactics
watch football and maybe you'll appreciate him more
@@ilaideeznuts7488he just copies tactics and tweaks them then uses the billions he has and buys everyone not the goat
@@echo5935 doesn't matter who did it first, it's who does it better, kiddo.
If Pep had Onana we'd see this played to it's max. He did have Neuer but he was never leaving Bayern
Finally goalies will see extra action
I miss the old days when football was just about having fun
Pro football was litteraly never about fun
Football in the park with your mates is about fun, in professional football, you're being paid millions to win as much as possible
Its a double edged sword having a keeper all the way out like that
If only football being played as simple as moving some coloured dots
I seem to remember Marcelo Bielsa talking about wanting to implement a version of this, but nowhere being brave enough to let him.
Whatever Guardiola does, the best teams try to copy him. And when they copy him. He makes another blueprint. He is unmatched.
Uh no
More like he copies others and improvised it
Very different
@@sorryminati4719 he didn't say pep created it, read it again
@@sorryminati4719im sure he is copying others, but he is always adapting. Doesnt stick to only one plan.
no actually bayern nagelsmann used tgis formation in his first year at bayern in 2021
It's good to see he keep some of the barca ideology
Enzo Maresca does this with Leicester which makes sense since Enzo was one of Peps right hand men
Genius move from pep as usual
Thiago motta did it years ago as a coach in psg youth team
I can't wait for future tactics to actually start utilizing the goalkeeper properly in an 11v11 instead of just letting them be sweeper keepers.
Looking forward to the first box to box goalkeeper.
Rene Higuita already played that goalkeeper role in the 80s and 90s...
Our manager uses this format
As an fcb and ars fan, I believe is the Goat of managers
Pep picked his nose this morning. More evidence of his genius. Unprecedented.
Except it isn't new, nor is it his invention...
Everytime Guardiola farts it's an innovation it seems.
Sounds similar to thiago mottas formation that uses the keeper as an outfield player
Actually that's inders innovation with Onnana and united I already starting to apply the same anti press strategy
We all knew that Ederson was secretly a midfielder anyway so it's no surprise 😂😂
Imagine if they had onana
With the way football is evolving, I wouldn’t be surprised if Ederson started as goalie who is also a third number 8
Opposition team: "Wait their goalie is an outfield player??"
Ederson: "Always have been"
Kinda like when you sub out the goalie in hockey
2030: What a goal from Guillermo Ochoa!!!!!
Honestly, I feel like Pickford played this in the game against Sheffield. Not as crazy as this though, but still almost like a 5th man in defence even though it was a 4-2-3-1
Pep is always ahead of everyone. When you look for solutions against him, he already moved on to another plan
Hasn't Ten Hag done this with onana? Only that there are no good midfielders to progress the ball but it looked quite like this. Or a 4-1-6
Pep didn’t introduce the box midfield - he even said himself that he copied De Zerbi
It was interesting to see how Arsenal nullified this too, by essentially just not pressing and man marking the DMs out of the game. In this sense, you can’t press at all, but that’s fine so long as you’re able to keep City with the ball all the way back there.
Pep continues to revolutionise the game
This goes to the comment Xavi made a few years about Goalkeepers being the 11th man