Roper Revolving Shotgun (now with dummy cartridges!)
Vložit
- čas přidán 3. 08. 2024
- / forgottenweapons
Sylvester Roper is not a well known name in firearms history today, but he made a number of notable contributions to the field - in addition to his work with motorcycles and automobiles where he is much better remembered.
The Roper revolving shotgun was an early cartridge-firing repeating shotgun that could carry and fire four rounds without reloading. It was offered in both 12ga and 16ga (this one is 12ga) and used a rather unusual open-bolt mechanism. Cocking the hammer fully would bring a shell into position between the bolt and chamber, and firing the gun would cause the bolt to drop forward, chamber the cartridge, lock in place, and immediately fire. Re-cocking the hammer would extract the fired case but leave it in the rotary magazine, and then bring a new shell into position to be fired. As a result, one could fire four rounds and then would have to unload the 4 empty shells form the magazine carousel before reloading.
Roper would go on to share the patents for the first pump action shotgun with Christopher Spencer (better known for his lever action rifle used in the Civil War) before his ultimate death on a steam-powered velocipede (we all have to die eventually, and that was a cool way to go!).
I see why the break open, double barrel shotguns dominated the Old West.
You're gonna regret those words. In about 4 hours after I get this loaded with shaking hands.
Lever action shotguns were not rare...in fact were favored for "riding shotgun".
“When I cock the hammer, which by the way has a really long stroke”
Me: it can’t be that ba-HOLY SHET
Its like pulling out a knife that turns out to be a f*cking sword from someone's throat
69 Likes. *Nice*
Kinda like some appendages in horror movies.
Well it'd have to be at least as long as the cartridge.
@@northernlights9533 see the M1917 bayonet. A 6inch bayonet with 11 additional inches of mean American steel.
I like revolvers.
I like shotguns.
This is appealing to my interests.
The double barrel from Bioshock 2 might interest you
Alternitively, Jakobs snipers from borderlands 2 are also pretty interesting
Even sounds like something minato would say
Same my dude
How do you feel about the street sweeper?
And I like Ian....
Totally going to to start recklessly riding a steam-powered velocipede when I turn 70.
Why wait?
@IMK 200 Classy way to go.
@@daleicious1528 so why wait till your 70
"Manually operated open bolt firing revolving shotgun"
Excuse me the what
Sounds like something a liberal would say
"Unloading is the exactly opposite of loading" - Ian, Forgotten Weapons
Hahahahahahaha... Awesome video! Very educational and enternaining.
Chico Pioneiro o
That magazine rotation speed is so fast I couldn't even tell if a new shell was chambered o_O
Roper: So you know how a double barreled shotgun has 2 shots?
Gunsmith: Yeah?
Roper: I'm going to make a shotgun with 4 shots.
Gunsmith: Awesome!
Roper: Unfortunately it takes as long to reload as a Gatling Gun does.
@@punjivr Often they were hopper fed, still very quick to load.
@@bryceforsyth8521 also the hopper feeding system had a open end and a loading guy would just put a ready magazine like loader and top it up urning a shooting
So with enough ammo and loading personell you could sustain a very long and devastating fire
@@Yeti-db8qd Exactly.
We, as a species, failed when we abandoned velocipede, over motorcycle.
When the front end unscrewed i yelled "ITS..... Beautiful" i feel that forgotten weapons has made porn obsolete.
+lebien le *tips fedora
Filme de guerra
Wow , wow, wow , wow ,wow ,wow ,ok I just finished and so did the video , you might be right .
i wouldnt go that far.
besides, you could use this gun in a porn movie.
Or porn stars doing Forgotten Weapon reviews
The genius of the early gun designers know no bounds. Wonderful looking gun, and very good supporter I would imagine.
Someone needs to use this gun in a movie. I imagine an intense "loading all the guns" scene with an older man loading one of these across his knee while talking to his partner.
Then they should include the rocket ball chain gun and the pistol with the drum magazine that takes a week to load.
This guy has the voice to keep you hooked, no matter what he is talking about
Just so you know, you missed that they also had threaded interchangeable chokes. Quite the novel feature for the late 1800's.
So many guns seem like they were designed to pinch fingers
lebien le
Spring loaded heavy metal parts, specially made to break your fingers
+lebien le Ljungman ag42b
+lebien le garand*
Worst blood blister I ever had came from not being careful with a Ljungman 42. Way worse than garand thumb.
As a professional gunsmith I can assure you with 100% accuracy that yes, this is very much the case. I think that certain designers were secretly sadists that wanted to torture all who used their creations!!! In all seriousness its always a hazard with anything mechanical, but smashed fingers usually aren't fatal and its honestly better to have a more reliable rifle than one that is almost as good and wont take a bite out of the user. I think it is a very acceptable compromise and one that just is a fact of life. I do also swear that my M1917 is possessed and feeds on the souls of the fingernails that it eats....
roper sure was creative with this one!
+MrBluetshirtguy agreed. Very innovative.
You can see where the progression to pump action came from
This is basically a worse version of a lever action
Would be cool to have a modern reproduction. Thats a very interesting system.
***** Yes. It doesn't look like it would be that hard to make. The mechanism while cool is pretty simple. I think it would sell if they remade one in modern ammo. It would be fine for hunting. In Pa you can only hunt with manually operated guns, Bolt action, Pump action, etc etc. So this would be pretty useful here.
+TroopperFoFo The problem with making a modern reproduction of any old firearm design is that of liability. Many of these old designs simply weren't safe. And something like this is no exception. If your hand slips off of that hammer while loading, the bolt slams forward and the gun probably goes off. Ian can correct me if I'm wrong but that is what I took away from the video. I can't imagine any modern company wanting to risk the liability of such a design. Especially, if there may not be a large enough market to support production anyway.
There were countless old firearms designs that either never made it into real production or had a very short production lifetime because they were inherently unsafe to use. There is a reason why only a handful of designs are created as modern reproductions. The modern reproductions that are offered today all have a proven track record of relative safety, AND are guns with enough interest that they are deemed to be worth making for the general public. This gun fails on both counts so it is highly unlikely that any company would ever risk marketing such a product.
+TroopperFoFo I'm not sure how it's with you, but I don't want to go hunting with someone who carries a shotgun that can't be opened without a lot of hassle.
+Treasure Pirate You probably could have a manual lock to have the bolt locked in place.
+YaoiMastah So you want to go hunting with someone who has a hard to open shotgun. Correct? I think that's what your grammar implied.
I had never heard the word "ameliorate" until today. Your vocabulary is impressive sir.
+GRMGR1 Really? Are you a non-native English speaker?
+wholeNwon No
+wholeNwon do you really think ''ameliorate'' is a commonly used, everyday word in english? where the hell do you live?
+wholeNwon I've read it plenty of times but I've never actually heard anyone speak it.
Well, perhaps you have a long life ahead and will hear others use words that are new to you.
I do.
I love seeing all the creative ways people came up with to fire a cartridge in these early gun designs.
Ian, I am always impressed with your knowledge on the subject matter you cover. Job well done!
I imagine out of all the guns of its time, the cylinder and firing mechanism being that sealed off would amount to some pretty hefty reliability. It'd be neat to see a modern production of the same concept
Something tells me if Ian is going down in any way, it'll be in a Steam-Powered Velocipede
Sir I watch as many of your videos as I can find. I would love to have your knowledge! I also would love to thank you for showing and educating us in these fine weapons!
Its been awhile since I've watched something that actually impressed me this much, that is an awesome piece.
This is a great channel. I just came across it about a week ago and have really enjoyed seeing these weapons, enough that now I'm a subscriber.
This looks like the shotgun in metro, but without blowback
I hate how accurate you are.
thought the same thing
also minus the empty case ejection
@@9m119refleks case ejection would be fairly easy to engineer in
For some reason you make every crazy old gun look cool. I think you should do a show with you shooting and showing your favorites and why they are your favorites. Range time would be awesome.
The metal shells are soo good sound wise... the plastic shell when falls does the typical sound but the metallic notes of a metal shell falling Is soo nice.
I've recently got into the idea of gun making and a revolver shotgun seemed like a good place to start.
With the benefit of a lot of history since this one was built I can see the principle could be improved immeasurably!
That barrel assembly screw is a recipe for alignment and precision issues for starters.
that was pretty odd but cool shotgun...thank you for showing this i love this channel.
Ian I love your videos and your knowledge in taking the time to explain how these really cool FIREARMS work thank you
So long as there are guns being made, this channel will never die!
Great video! I was reading one of Louis L'Amour's short stories in which the good guy was armed with a Roper revolving shotgun ("A Husband for Janey", Collected Short Stories, Volume 1). It intrigued me so I looked it up.
What an interesting gun ... Great videos as always . Keep em coming !
Thanks for showing that to us, and as always well explained. With the barrel removed I could understand it’s action
Man dice needs to watch your vids because these weapons look so cool and unique!
Maybe the one with ejector on top was meant to eject casings automatically if dust cover is opened?
I suspect it was more probably fully disassembled at some point and subsequently reassembled improperly. That could also explain the missing parts and lack of functionality.
I love watching these videos and learn about these odd guns.
You keep finding incredibly exotic weapons that I never even imagined existed.
Always just amazed how we (humans) work our way around the same problem in engineering.
Thanks for posting.
You sound awful pleased to have gotten your hands on a complete one of these.
Also the dissasembly on that shotgun is amazing. Just unscrew it an you're done! It doesnt get easier than that.
8:10 I would beg to differ, in hunting scenarios the instant second shot is usually more important than in this case 3 more shots with ~2s between them. Otherwise its a really neat system.
So am I correct that the magazine rotates in only the one direction? So you could unload cases and put in live rounds as part of the same process? And also that if you only had two rounds you would need to cycle the gun additional times to bring the live rounds around?
+David Desoer Correct.
+Forgotten Weapons Dangit, that gun makes me feel fatigued just watching the work needed to load and cock it XD
@@ForgottenWeapons But what preloads the spring? I expected you to load in the opposite direction as the firing direction. Or is it a ratchet-and-pawl system?
i know Roper best as a landlord...
damn, you must be as old as me.
Fascinating. Really enjoy your videos. Thanx!
Love that disassembly!
By far my favourite gun. That mix of old style and modern system is a perfect balance.
Very cool.
long throw on the hammer,lol. the whole take-down and general design of the gun is awesome
Ah yes
The Bigger Iron
I love these quirky shotguns! Ian, please be sure to stay on the lookout for more of these oddball shotguns. :)
That is a very interesting gun. Thanks Ian
This is very cool. Thanx for showing it! As always, excellent video. :-)
Never heard of this weapon, thanks for this.
Came here 2 years later because Ian's video on the Roper repeating rifle came out...
That case design is such a genius way to get the most out of a percussion cap system !
Nice work, Ian.
About Steel cartridge cases: the Rheinmetall 8.8cm sFlaK41/L71 (sFlaK = heavy AA gun ) was one of the stellar performers of WW2. To save on brass (needed for Hitler's famous brass ball) the extended cartridges for this gun were made of steel, leading to extraction problems:
From everyone's favorite argument mill; Wikipedia:
"The new gun fired a 9.4-kilogram (20 lb) shell at a muzzle velocity of 1,000 m/s (3,280 ft/s), giving it an effective ceiling of 11,300 meters (37,100 ft) and a maximum of 14,700 meters (48,200 ft), which General Otto Wilhelm von Renz said to be "almost equal to the 128-mm."[8] It featured a lower silhouette on its turntable mounting than did the 8.8-cm Flak 18/36/37 on its pedestal mounting. The barrel was at first a three-section one with a length of 74 calibers, and then redesigned to dual-section with a length of 72 calibers.[11] Improvements in reloading raised the firing rate, with 20 to 25 rounds a minute being quoted.[8]
Because of problems in service, the guns were almost exclusively used in Germany where they could be properly maintained and serviced. The Flak 41 had the disadvantage of complexity, and was prone to problems with ammunition, empty cases often jamming on extraction. Because of the high cost and complexity of this weapon, the Germans manufactured relatively few of them, 556 in all.
This is such a unique and intriguing firearm
Huh looks like if one was so inclined, you could still load up those cases for use. assuming one could find a proper pressure load.
+Andre Krumins Yes, you certainly could.
It wouldnt be difficult to manufacture new shells either. Just a lathe, a few other tools and good to go.
+Ionracas85
I was thinking the same myself as I watched this; you could make plenty of them and have a nice antique shotgun that you could easily use for taking game or whatever you wished.
+toomanyaccounts That's why you start with an extremely light load, and work your way up. I am sure there is also data out there for other shotguns of the period, and you could use that for a baseline.
Problem is that this looks like it's meant to be loaded with black powder. From what I've seen, (at least with muzzle loaders) loading smokeless powder like what's in modern shells would have a rather explosive result.
Interesting video and history
Wow. That would just have been the coolest darned thing to have at that time. Reloadable cartridges with...I'll admit I have no idea what kind of percussion caps those are. Are they actually just upside-down standard caps of the time?? I actually have no idea how many different types of those there were...that doesn't get talked about much. Anyway from the perspective of someone at that time, having reloadable black powder + cap shells seems like a really cool innovation. I'm surprised he didn't try to put it into a pistol or rifle design? Maybe people back then weren't crazy about loading/unloading procedure and the fact that it could only be fully loaded if it were cocked.... It's really, really cool to see how Roper used a common control of the period--a single action hammer--to perform similar actions to those accomplished with lever-actions of the period. Also, I assume that's powered by a spring on the "hammer", even though the hammer is actually just...part of the bolt. Or the bolt is part of the hammer. Really, really cool to look at this in the context of muzzle-loading percussion firearms and even the early revolvers.
Really a pretty slick design for its day! Pretty simple yet innovative. The hammer/boltwork is pretty neat but I really like the heavy gauge steel shells, very unique with the rebated rim like that and the gun was marketed as a user reloaded cartridge. It would be neat to shoot with some reduced charge black powder loads however i'd lathe turn some new brass shells for such a practice and thin the neck a bit to get a little obturation. Also interesting it spec'd a Berdan cap as preferred! Everyone thinks of combloc ammo today when they hear Berdan primed cases. And Boxer is most common here and preferred by us reloaders but Berdan was a product of the US and Boxer was not. Things are not as they always seem!
You are myy hero man keep doing what your doing
You have a very cool job.
This thing is absolutely insane!!!
It looks like a very unsafe loading procedure. Wont the gun fire, if you loose grip of the cocking handle?
The bolt locks, and the trigger releases it. It's likely that whatever moment the bolt is back far enough that the hammer is cocked and thus the firing pin ready, that it is locked back and will not fall forward without the trigger.
Idk why but that comically long hammer made me laugh my ass off
I loved Mr. Roper he was such a funny guy
Man this musta been a pain in the ass to fix when it jammed, shotguns have really come a long way
Nice unique gun
That is one of the coolest shotguns ever
Fascinating as ever.
Nothing's doper than having a Roper when trouble's around you become a cool coper.
this one is super cool. The cocking hammer sure asserts dominance.
Very cool video.
how much does that beast weigh?
BTW I'm addicted to your vids :) I'm not even that interested in guns in general, but the engineering history is really interesting :D
You have the best job ever
I came back to this video after watching it 4+ years ago and i still said “wait you’re turning the screw the wrong way”on the fixed screw on the cylinder 🤣🤣 then im like “ahh okay i get it again” lmaoo
I just saw one of these at a gun show last weekend.
Awesome video, subscribed.
i ride bikes, and i have no idea what the hell a ''steam powered Velocipede'' is, but i would love to die on one!! guy made some nice guns as well. what a badass.
you plan to do vids on 16-17th century firearms too? youre only a plumed hat away from a musketeer :D
Hmmmm... 19th century guy invents repeating firearms and rides steam-powered velocipedes (and other steam vehicles). He was steampunk before it was cool.
"cool way to go out, by the way. classy" haha
That thing is really cool
Awesome gun!
I saw a roper revolving shotgun at a museum in Montana when i was in the military in 1980. It stuck with me because of its oddness. lol
What if someone's hand slips while loading? Why not have some mechanism that toggles between the hammer and bolt that would be used for loading?
Interesting, I don't remember ever hearing of that one before.
I would love to have a made exact repro of one of these with special Precision made shotshells that do gas seal just to have extremely easy to reload shotshells to get me started in reloading
this is good for the apocalipse beacuse the shells remain in the gun and are easy to reload, compared to a pump action with plastic shells that you have to pick up.
patricio torre You don't reload fired shotgun shells
cooler Typ Actually you can, even by hand without a reloading press
The shotgun in the video used steel cases, not paper and Ian specified they could and were reloaded. I think that's what Pat was getting at.
Are you sure, because I have a 32g shotgun here with several full brass shotgun shells which were reloaded by my cousin with steel steel bearing balls.
Don't talk about things you don't know.
not sure, you would be eaten alive by zombies while trying to reload that gun.
Very interesting gun !
2:12 I wasn't ready for that
Sir please review on J&S 04 Gauge shotgun. You are good teacher about weapin. Thanks
Very good show
Without a doubt, dying while riding a steam powered velocipede has got to be one of the most epic ways to go.
thats really cool weapon
circa 19thC. Wood. Patinaed metalwork. Stunning.
If you can find one, the Alofs reloading magazine is VERY interesting ... Especially since it it for a break action single shot ...
Thematically, this is badass.