In this video we take a basic look at the difference between C and Bb Trumpet. We also explore transposition and why there are different keyed trumpets
On day four of learning trumpet and I lost an hour of my life trying to figure out if my horn was broken because I took a tuner to my b flat trumpet and the notes didn't line up with the fingering. Wish I'd had this video yesterday. Thank you for the knowledge. There are surprisingly few videos about this
C trumpet also has a slightly more brilliant sound and is more responsive than B flat due to the shorter leadpipe which is why I prefer to play it for everything except jazz music.
I'm just now getting into playing C trumpet and stumbled across this. Your videos were some of my formative instruction. Jon, you were and continue to be an indispensable resource (through this channel) to the trumpet world, especially for us younger guys looking to the pros for solid advice. This is your legacy. It lives on. I miss you, buddy.
Thanks for the simple clarification. I bought a C trumpet at a yard sale and looked all over to try to find what the difference was. Until your side by side comparison it seemed unclear. Not any more!
Hi Jon, speaking as a trumpet player . . . always great tips. But I want to comment on your M. Schulz 56" Cabinet Grand piano. They were truly fantastic back in their era, as you probably well know! I've got one too, made in 1909 and restored, a Model Z, which is basically also a mahogany cabinet in a more decorative trim. These models have the bass string length of a 6'2"-6'3" grand. Nice tastes. All the best, Tom
Tom Turner This was my mother’s piano I have heard it played since the day I was born. She had a very strong left hand and played stride bass like no other. Best, Jon
because i play both the piano and the Bb trumpet i sometimes reference some notes as its concert pitch instead like if im playing D i'd think C so sometimes when i want to play something from my head i play C instead of D perfectly not confusing
Horn players would be happy to have horns in every key cause it makes transposing easier to match the ranges of other instruments, vocalists, or even both especially on church gigs.
I'm not a trumpet player, but this keeps me up at night :) I still don't understand why on a Bb instrument, you don't just call the fingerings the actual note they create. I'm a jazz guitar player, but if I were to learn trumpet at this stage I would want to learn the actual notes regardless of fingering so I wouldn't need my own special charts. Why call it a "Bb Trumpet" in the first place? - It can play every note. I witnessed a live train wreck once when a trumpet player gave the guitar player one of his charts for the gig - the guitar player's solo did NOT go well. Seriously, I'm not trying to be an ass, and I accept that this IS the way it is, I just can't wrap my head around why it originated that way (I also have accepted the fact that I may just be an idiot) - Thanks!
Conductors have to read in treble, bass and alto clef, and the horns are in D, or F, the brass and saxes are in Bb or Eb, clarinets are Bb etc etc and some players (and conductors) can sight-read AND transpose at the same time - I've seen it done. If it matters, you just have to learn it, and its not that tough. I play trumpet and guitar, at the same gig - so my cheat sheets can look a little confusing, but it all works ok. If the conductor of an orchestra were to say - 'everybody play C' it would be a discord! He would have to say Concert C. People adapt, they have to!
Thank you for this @@mistag3860 . What I still can't wrap my head around though is the idea of taking an instrument that is capable of playing an "A" note (with whatever combination of valves pressed down that's required to do so) - but deciding that we will call that a different note entirely, create our own unique sheet music and chord charts (that are actually incorrect), and then spend the rest of our lives transposing everything to the actual notes. Do you know what I mean? It would be like teaching someone to drive a manual transmission, but replacing the gear numbers with different numbers and telling them to get used to "3" actually being first gear, or mixing up the keys on my computer keyboard and taking the time to learn that "Q" is actually going type "H" - you know, for a goof :)
@@plaidgadjobecause you need to be able to pick up another instrument pitched differently (like from Bb to C or Eb trumpet, and music for said instrument and play it. Having a common fingering and adjusting the musical notation ONCE makes more sense than having to learn different fingerings for each instrument.
I am trying to learn Trumpet to play some trumpet with electronic dance music and this matter is driving me crazy trying to understand all that..I have already spend hours and read a lot about that, since it´s hard to understand... So basically if I understood it well the thing is what follows:. In both trumpets you can play all notes (except a few little differences since they start at different points and one of them can probably go a little higher or little lower in frequencies).. But in Bflat trumpet, hands free (no piston pressed) is a Bflat sound in the piano and in a C trumpet a free hands is a C in the piano... There is no problem to that. Many instruments have different tessitures and range. That´s understandable to me.. The problem to me is that trumpet notation ( the music sheet made for trumpet player) do not call their notes by they real sounding name as the piano. They call it and write in the pentagram one tone higher.. So when a trumpet player says I am playing a C he is actually not playing a Concert C, (the C of the piano), one tone below.. He is really playing Bflat of the piano. This is what, to me, is strange and makes no sense at all. Music is already very complex and I do not understand why trumpet players make it more complex with their own language. and way of writing things in a music sheet. We should all call the notes by the real note... A= 440 Hz. So we should, in all instruments , call it A.. Why the hell trumpet players call 440 Hz with a B?... Why not everybody using the same names and make it simpler to everybody?.. Why this strange trumpet way of calling still remains?...Historical reasons?.. This is like if in a little town in Pensilvania, for historical reasons, people point to a chair and call it "table". And after 500 years when in 2020 is already internationally accepted the fact of calling table to a table, they persist in calling it "chair" and with their system, they generate constant confusion when they talk to people from NY, Singapour, London, Amsterdam or Taiwan. To my opinion someone should change that. And I do not understand why has not been changed yet. Anyone can explain me a single advantage to call the tables by the word chair?. I really do not understand it. And would love to have an explanation.
The main difference is that if you have a C trumpet, when you are gathered around the piano with friends, you can play the melody as written. In church, you can play off of the hymnal. If you are in a chamber music group and there is a part for violin, flute, or oboe, but they don't have a violinist, flutist, or oboist handy, you can say, "Well, I can play that!" (Not always--the part may go sometimes too high or to low, ubt you can play an octave above or below.) Yes, most 'trumpet' parts are for B-flat; but any professional or semi-professional trumpeter should have a C trumpet as well. And a strictly amateur can dispense with a B-flat entirely, as most situations he/she will land in will probably involve playing either a vocal line or a part written for a C instrument.
@@anthonykaiser974 Yes, if you are in HS, you only need q Bflat. But in the real world, unless you are a professional, a C is more useful as you can play off any sheet music. Only a real pro needs a E-flat!
as a beginner jazz player I often face the problem of not having Bb music sheets (I know that I should memorize tunes...), so I was wondering if it wasn't better to learn notes with their real name, on Bb trumpet
My dad bought me a c trumpet in band and what my teacher wanted was everyone to get was b flat. I always seemed to have trouble in band was it because I had the wrong trumpet?
@@Rufftips Sorry to tell ya, that piano is in the landfill, but the most significant difference between the two horns is the sound. The C trumpet sounds brighter than the Bb trumpet, but it could also sometimes sound thinner because of the weather conditions.
@@Rufftips Sorry to tell ya, that piano is in the landfill, but the most significant difference between the two horns is the sound. The C trumpet sounds brighter than the Bb trumpet, but it could also sometimes sound thinner because of the weather conditions.
@UCPu1HMxQ0a-OjnttWA4TkGw It's good for brass players to have horns in every key so this way it's easier to transpose on the fly to fit the ranges of other instruments, vocalists, or even both especially on a Church gig.
Thank you for a very informational video. I have 3 questions. 1) Why would anyone buy a Bb trumpet? 2) If I want to compose for a brass quintet, do I use concert C-based (treble clef) notification for all the instruments (trumpet, trumpet, horn, trombone, tuba)? (I believe I've seen scores with c-clef) 3) Which of the 5 instruments in the quintet would use the bass clef?
Your explanation it’s confusing. What about this: the notes in a Bb trumpet are shifted one whole tone down from a C trumpet. Which means that to play a C on a Bb trumpet you have to play a D so it becomes a C. Believe me make sense of what I just said it’s fairly simple and you will get the point.
Sooooo.... I'm hoping to get a straight answer finally to the question ( is it easier to achieve a concert pitch high C on a C or even higher pitched trumpet in adverse to the Bb ? ). Probably obvious to anybody smarter than me.
Hi John, I play at church and we only have C trumpet parts. I play on a Bb trumpet. My friends are mind blown that I can "transpose", however that is how I have always played so I don't know that i'm doing it. Now, what key of trumpet would I need to play on to play standard trumpet Bb treble clef, without having to change fingerings. If such instrument (or theoretical instrument) exists, would I have to change key signatures and how? Thanks
Scott Seaver I struggle to understand the totality of this question. B-flat trumpet is a B-flat treble clef trumpet. If you’re transposing C parts this means when you see in the music a B-flat you have to play a C on the B-flat treble clef trumpet. In other words you are playing up a step. If you are playing a B-flat treble clef trumpet part and you see a B-flat you play a B-flat first valve not a C open. The complexity of trying to do this via written word is immense. There is way too much opportunity for confusion. I have no idea your background how you studied or learned to play trumpet. The answers are inside of any band method book one trumpet book. Inside of these books are fingering charts that show the standard fingerings for the B-flat trumpet and the music contained in the book is written for B-flat trumpet. If you grew up playing only in church reading C parts you are transposing and applying transposition fingerings to a B-flat trumpet. Once again I am at a loss to be able to explain all of this in the context offered. Best Jon
When I see middle C on piano music, I compress valves 1&3. However, when I see a note in the exact same spot on trumpet Bb treble clef, it's not the right note and trumpet players don't call it middle C. They call it Bb or something. I am very confused and would wish to play Bb trumpet parts but the fingerings and key signature is different from that of the piano. Like I said my friends are mind blown by the fact I can read SATB but then not read Bb treble clef... (I can play in the bass clef and transpose up an octave so i'm not playing pedals)
Ok now I get it! So you would need an Ab trumpet I think that you would have to have one custom made. To play Bb trumpet parts on a Bb trumpet when you see a C on the paper it is fingered open. This is the fingering you would use at church (when reading piano parts) to play a Bb. You have learned to play in C on a Bb trumpet. To get with the rest of the trumpet world you need to study trumpet fingerings. All trumpets use the same fingerings for the notes they see in their written key. I would get a fingering chart or a band method trumpet book 1. If you learn to finger this way you can buy a C trumpet and read the piano parts using the correct trumpet fingerings. In other words using a C trumpet when reading piano parts you will finger C open and it will sound correct. This is why it is called C trumpet. Both the C trumpet and the piano are playing and reading Concert pitch, or are in C.
so on a Bb trumpet, they call it low (even tho the note is Bb) be cause its the low open note? im new to trumpet (at 20 years old haha) and im just making sure im understanding this right
Nick Taylor This stuff gets confusing rather quickly. No matter what key trumpet you’re playing B-flat, C, E flat and so on the music itself always looks the same. A low C below the staff will always be fingered open no matter what trumpet you’re playing. The difference is what that note or pitch is compared to a concert instrument like Piano. A low C on a B-flat trumpet is a concert B-flat. A low C on a C trumpet is a concert C. A Low C on E flat trumpet is an E flat concert. The music written is always the same and the trumpets pitch or key is determined by its low C and the relation to concert pitch. I hope this helps Best Jon
Why calling it a "low c" when you're plyaing an E flat trumpet? Why don't you just call it an E flat, what it really is? To me it seems like it's a bad habit teaching this to young musicians.
Simple formula: If playing Bb parts on a C horn play down a step and add 2 flats to the key signature. C parts n a Bb horn = play up a step and add 2 sharps to the key.
Joe Roman You should be able to use the mouthpiece that you play on the B flat for the C trumpet. You may discover there is a better mouthpiece for you on C trumpet. I would not worry about the mouthpiece immediately. I would see if what I have already works. Overtime you can certainly investigate other options. Best, Jon
I'm an alto sax player that just decided to get into brass and bought a Bb Trumpet. I wonder if my sax's C is actually an Eb on concert pitch. This is annoying though. I wish the C on my new trumpet was an actual C so that I could practically play this with friends etc playing piano and whatever else if I tried to share sheet music, instead of calling itself a Bb and its supposed C was actually Bb. Maybe I should have gotten a C trumpet lol.
Thanks for the video! I am learning (Bb) clarinet right now. So if you see music in C, are you transposing in your head as you read it? I can't imagine doing that until years after I get comfortable reading in Bb.
Joshua Tanzer yes you are. If you have C concert music like in a hymnal, yes you need to play 1 full step higher. If you see a C in a hymnal you must play a D on Bb clarinet to match pitch with the organ. This is a bit advanced. You should not need to deal with this for a few years as you learn the instrument.
The reason I'm playing those notes in that octave is the octave above that on this piano is horrifically out of tune on the concert B-flat. The purpose of the video is to define how the keys of these trumpets are determined. The reference notes on the piano are simply the concert pitch that corresponds to the open fundamental of each instrument. I am not demonstrating what exact note on the piano the low C is sounding, I am demonstrating what key the instrument is pitched in according to concert pitch. To determine this I finding that note on the piano. It honestly doesn't matter whether the octave is the same, lower or higher. The key to what the video is trying to achieve is in the narration. Best, Jon
Jon, what type of mouthpiece must be used to play a C trumpet I have used different mouthpieces and the C trumpet seems to always be stuffy it is a ml .460 bore and is a rather new trumpet as opposed to my open blowing ml Bb tpt Do you have any ideas
Chris Thompson the problems you may be encountering might be due to the medium large C trumpet you have. The most commonly played C trumpets are large bore. If this is an instrument were looking at playing quite a bit of I would recommend getting a large bore. Milano music has a wonderful playing used Bach 229 25 H large bore C trumpet. When it comes to Mountain View selection you might benefit from a different mouthpiece but without knowing what your playing I cannot make recommendations. Best, Jon milanomusic.com/trumpet/c-trumpet/
Henry Fuentes Riccardi Basically I’m trying to explain that when you’re playing a trumpet in any key the fingerings for the notes are the same but the pitch that is sounding is different. I realize this can be somewhat complex. If you have never played a C trumpet then I certainly understand how it can be confusing.
@@Rufftips Greetings, Im an amateur trumpet player, and I didn't know there were different kind of trumpets, I know what you mean know about the notes in different trumpets, but thank you so much for taking the time to answer my question Sir Rufftips.
I dont understand how Strauss Vater & Son wrote a (sounding) G2 or even E2 for trumpet (better for F-trumpet) hmmmm they wrote trumpets in the meaning of Eb-Alto_Trombone withour coulisse? hmmm
Tan Kee ku The modern trumpet is a chromatic instrument. The baroque trumpet was not. The reason we have trumpets in different keys is because of the way Music was written for the orchestra. A certain piece would call for a trumpet in D and the trumpet player would have to use a trumpet pitched in D. Those old trumpets we're not chromatic they did not have valves. Because modern trumpets have valves you can play any trumpet on a piece for any trumpet as long as you transpose and as long as the trumpet you are using can play the full range of the piece. Best, Jon
If the trumpet is chromatic why bother to specify any key for a trumpet since they would be able to be played in any key just like a piano, sorry if my question sound stupid, i just started learning , thanks for the answers
Tan Kee ku what you're not understanding is history we're talking about Mozart's trumpets that played for Mozart while Mozart was alive. Those trumpets were not chromatic. It is tradition. When orchestras started you had to write for trumpets in different keys because they were not chromatic. This tradition continues into today. Each trumpet in each key sounds a little different and composers write for those instruments in that key. Yes, you could easily play a piece written for D trumpet on a C trumpet but you would have to transpose. It is quite simple, there is a tradition because of history to write for trumpets in different keys for pieces that are in different keys. Modern trumpet players in orchestras make decisions about which instrument they're going to use for that particular piece. Sometimes they choose to play a trumpet in the key the piece is written for. In other words a D trumpet for a piece written for D trumpet. Sometimes they will use different trumpet for that piece because they find it easier to play that piece on a trumpet in a different key. The modern invention of valves has changed the way trumpet players approach orchestral pieces. Trumpets are not the only instrument that has evolved through time, modern instrument sound very different than his historical instruments from hundreds of years ago. So once again to answer your question correctly it is tradition to write for different trumpets in different keys and today it has to do with the sound of the instrument in that key. Best, Jon
Tan Kee ku please reread my last reply I had to edit a few things. This is not a problem you have as a young or new student. As you grow and learn more about music and trumpet you'll understand. Just know this, trumpet players have it much easier then French horn players. Best, Jon
My doubt is: since all modern trumpets has valves, and almost all instruments in a regular band (not an orquestra) are tuned in C, why new trumpet players are told to start playing a B flat intrument instead of a C, which would spare them the trouble to transpose. How often transposing is needed outside an orquestra? Hope this is a legitimate question.
Morato Q Bb and Eb cornet were the 2 pitched high brass instruments in military band and concert bands that flourished in the late 1800s early 1900s. The Bb cornet was the most popular. Orchestra parts had been traditionally written for trumpet in the key of the piece or movement. This was due to the fact trumpets were natural horns with no valves and could only play the overtones of the key they were pitched in. So understanding this history gives us clues to the modern trumpet and the popularity of Bb. Bb cornets be came popular in early jazz as trumpets started being used in these groups and the most common key like cornet was Bb. So manufacturers built More Bb trumpets than any other key. Bb trumpets could easily play cornet music because of the same key. Written Music for high brass was in Bb. Orchestra is where transposition is common. Because many pieces were historically written in different keys manufacturers built different trumpets in different keys the most common are Bb, C D Eb and A Bb piccolo there are A trumpets pitched below (Bb) and F trumpets above the (D/Eb) trumpet. There are also G piccolos pitched below the (Bb A) piccolos. These instruments are far less common. This is how modern orchestra players deal with the trumpet parts in different keys. Because modern composers are aware of the history of each instrument not just trumpet they will write for the particular modern instruments available in different keys. At this point they are all chromatic instruments so it is a matter or register and sound they are looking for. Most orchestra trumpet players have developed a common approach to playing traditional pieces in different keys. They use different trumpets in different keys and occasionally transpose a particular piece because it works for that piece. Because the vast majority of “concert band” jazz band and all pop music has been written for Bb instruments we have a tradition. If trumpet players Learned on C they would have to transpose over 150 years of music. You see the transposition is already done by the composer or publisher. It is only when the part or our part is written in a different key do we need to trans pose. Most the time this happens there is a trumpet made in that key. So if you are not reading music and only learning by ear or you only have music in c like a hymnal... buy a C trumpet. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornet#Relationship_to_trumpet
adfasd A low C on any pitched trumpet will be “called” a low C. Low C on a Bb trumpet is called low C because on the music we are reading it in fact is a low C. That low C is sounding a concert Bb. In school concert bands across America the director will say, “let’s tune to a concert Bb please”. The trumpet section plays their C. Even though we have our music with correct pitches written for us it is not written in concert pitch. If you play a C trumpet then you are playing in concert pitch. A=440 is concert A. If you tune to A=440 on a Bb trumpet in order to match that pitch you have to play 2nd valve B natural. This is because you are playing a Bb trumpet, or a trumpet pitched in Bb. Every concert pitch sounding will be matched by playing a whole step higher. Find a piano and play a C on the piano. Play a concert C on the piano. In order to match it you will have to play a D. Get a free tuner app on your phone. Play your C and see what it shows you on the tuner. It will show a “concert” Bb. This is the relationship of the Bb trumpet to concert pitch. The tuner app can sound pitches. Have it sound an A. This will be A=440. When you try to match pitch you will have to play a B natural on your Bb trumpet. One full step higher. This is the same A as concert A. That describes notes being played in concert pitch. Flute, Oboe, Violin, Piano, Guitar and piccolo all play in concert pitch. They are described as C instruments, or in C. Bb trumpet is in Bb. This means the pitches we play sound one full step lower than an instrument in C. Our C is a concert Bb.
Why not standardise on one tone, instead of introducing tonal incompatibilities between trumpets, that requires either finger-wrenching transpositions of entire pieces, or buying one trumpet per tone, to be sure you always have access to the right trumpet?
Ciofey One reason this will never happen is because Trumpets in different pitches are exactly that. They have different timbre and color. In reality even in the orchestral world there are not that many Trumpets used anymore. The most common would be: B-flat, C, D, E-flat an A piccolo. This actually represents only 4 horns not 5. The D/E-flat is typically an instrument able to play in both keys via changing out slides and bell. You actually mention why players use horns in different keys not just one key. There are pieces that do not lay well on a particular pitched trumpet so the player will select another pitched trumpet to make the piece easier to play because of fingering issues as you mention. I am actually playing a piece currently that would be much easier on a C trumpet then it is on a B-flat trumpet. There are several very awkward trills That would be far easier to produce on a C Trumpet because of moving the key signature for the C trumpet. I realize that this is all very strange and complex and seems like it shouldn’t exist in this “day and age”. Not that it is comforting but in the French Horn world they are constantly reading parts in many keys without the added benefit of being able to pull a instrument up and play it in the key it was meant to be played in. They are always transposing. In theory the answer would be to transpose the parts so they all sit in F. This too shall never happen. This is how it is and the music world is going to accept this now and well into the future.
actually saying c is superior it's the contrary, in general every lower sound is better - has more "meat", that's the difference between a piano and a concert piano - it simply has more body
Simon and Yas That is a very difficult question to answer it really depends upon the person. I would say that Piccolo trumpet takes the most concentration and delicate approach
Miguel Galan Tradition and the sound you get. B-flat trumpet’s are used in jazz ensembles of different sizes so the music that is written for them is in B-flat. B-flat trumpet has the capability of getting dark and smoky or extremely bright and brilliant. Both ends of the spectrum or hallmarks of jazz trumpet.
The concept of different names for different scales based on the instruments key is so stupid and a waste of time. If it’s a b flat scale based on sound frequency, then it’s a b flat scale, no need to title it anything other than that. To call it a c major scale even those you’re playing Bb notes makes no sense. People collectively should remove that whole system and accept the note it truly is. Such a mind fuck for no reason.
It would make it ridiculously difficult to learn more than one type of the same instrument if that was the case. Like I play alto sax, but I can also play tenor. But if what I was used to as a C was name E♭ on my alto and the same fingering was named B♭ on the tenor sax, than I and many others would undoubtedly be confused.
On day four of learning trumpet and I lost an hour of my life trying to figure out if my horn was broken because I took a tuner to my b flat trumpet and the notes didn't line up with the fingering. Wish I'd had this video yesterday. Thank you for the knowledge. There are surprisingly few videos about this
10 years of band, playing all the brass- it would be great if everyone would just agree that a C is a fucking C
C trumpet also has a slightly more brilliant sound and is more responsive than B flat due to the shorter leadpipe which is why I prefer to play it for everything except jazz music.
Why not jazz?
A 4 Valve C trumpet might work
You can also play off vocal sheet music, out of the hymnal, etc.
I'm just now getting into playing C trumpet and stumbled across this.
Your videos were some of my formative instruction. Jon, you were and continue to be an indispensable resource (through this channel) to the trumpet world, especially for us younger guys looking to the pros for solid advice.
This is your legacy. It lives on.
I miss you, buddy.
great video. They hid all of this detail back in grade school music.
they had to revive it
Thanks for the simple clarification. I bought a C trumpet at a yard sale and looked all over to try to find what the difference was. Until your side by side comparison it seemed unclear. Not any more!
Hi Jon, speaking as a trumpet player . . . always great tips. But I want to comment on your M. Schulz 56" Cabinet Grand piano. They were truly fantastic back in their era, as you probably well know! I've got one too, made in 1909 and restored, a Model Z, which is basically also a mahogany cabinet in a more decorative trim. These models have the bass string length of a 6'2"-6'3" grand. Nice tastes. All the best, Tom
Tom Turner This was my mother’s piano I have heard it played since the day I was born. She had a very strong left hand and played stride bass like no other. Best, Jon
@@Rufftips Tom Turner has that Piano now.
because i play both the piano and the Bb trumpet i sometimes reference some notes as its concert pitch instead like if im playing D i'd think C
so sometimes when i want to play something from my head i play C instead of D
perfectly not confusing
What notes do you find to be the most off of concert pitch after transposition? It sounds like my E is out of tune while the rest sounds okay.
Wow! Great instructional vid...where were you when I was in high school LoL.... I was terrible!!!! At transposing!
Horn players would be happy to have horns in every key cause it makes transposing easier to match the ranges of other instruments, vocalists, or even both especially on church gigs.
6:41 Historically we had Natural Trumpets, which were actually pitched an Octave lower (Twice the Length of our Modern Trumpet).
I have a Trumpet that can switch from a Bb to C and did not known what i could do with it until now thanks!
I'm not a trumpet player, but this keeps me up at night :) I still don't understand why on a Bb instrument, you don't just call the fingerings the actual note they create. I'm a jazz guitar player, but if I were to learn trumpet at this stage I would want to learn the actual notes regardless of fingering so I wouldn't need my own special charts. Why call it a "Bb Trumpet" in the first place? - It can play every note. I witnessed a live train wreck once when a trumpet player gave the guitar player one of his charts for the gig - the guitar player's solo did NOT go well. Seriously, I'm not trying to be an ass, and I accept that this IS the way it is, I just can't wrap my head around why it originated that way (I also have accepted the fact that I may just be an idiot) - Thanks!
Conductors have to read in treble, bass and alto clef, and the horns are in D, or F, the brass and saxes are in Bb or Eb, clarinets are Bb etc etc and some players (and conductors) can sight-read AND transpose at the same time - I've seen it done. If it matters, you just have to learn it, and its not that tough. I play trumpet and guitar, at the same gig - so my cheat sheets can look a little confusing, but it all works ok. If the conductor of an orchestra were to say - 'everybody play C' it would be a discord! He would have to say Concert C. People adapt, they have to!
Thank you for this @@mistag3860 . What I still can't wrap my head around though is the idea of taking an instrument that is capable of playing an "A" note (with whatever combination of valves pressed down that's required to do so) - but deciding that we will call that a different note entirely, create our own unique sheet music and chord charts (that are actually incorrect), and then spend the rest of our lives transposing everything to the actual notes. Do you know what I mean? It would be like teaching someone to drive a manual transmission, but replacing the gear numbers with different numbers and telling them to get used to "3" actually being first gear, or mixing up the keys on my computer keyboard and taking the time to learn that "Q" is actually going type "H" - you know, for a goof :)
@@plaidgadjobecause you need to be able to pick up another instrument pitched differently (like from Bb to C or Eb trumpet, and music for said instrument and play it. Having a common fingering and adjusting the musical notation ONCE makes more sense than having to learn different fingerings for each instrument.
Great stuff man.....Love your vids.
3:57 Bb2 On Keyboard
6:49 Trombone Bb it's actually the Pedal Note on a Bb trumpet
I am trying to learn Trumpet to play some trumpet with electronic dance music and this matter is driving me crazy trying to understand all that..I have already spend hours and read a lot about that, since it´s hard to understand... So basically if I understood it well the thing is what follows:. In both trumpets you can play all notes (except a few little differences since they start at different points and one of them can probably go a little higher or little lower in frequencies).. But in Bflat trumpet, hands free (no piston pressed) is a Bflat sound in the piano and in a C trumpet a free hands is a C in the piano... There is no problem to that. Many instruments have different tessitures and range. That´s understandable to me.. The problem to me is that trumpet notation ( the music sheet made for trumpet player) do not call their notes by they real sounding name as the piano. They call it and write in the pentagram one tone higher.. So when a trumpet player says I am playing a C he is actually not playing a Concert C, (the C of the piano), one tone below.. He is really playing Bflat of the piano. This is what, to me, is strange and makes no sense at all. Music is already very complex and I do not understand why trumpet players make it more complex with their own language. and way of writing things in a music sheet. We should all call the notes by the real note... A= 440 Hz. So we should, in all instruments , call it A.. Why the hell trumpet players call 440 Hz with a B?... Why not everybody using the same names and make it simpler to everybody?.. Why this strange trumpet way of calling still remains?...Historical reasons?.. This is like if in a little town in Pensilvania, for historical reasons, people point to a chair and call it "table". And after 500 years when in 2020 is already internationally accepted the fact of calling table to a table, they persist in calling it "chair" and with their system, they generate constant confusion when they talk to people from NY, Singapour, London, Amsterdam or Taiwan. To my opinion someone should change that. And I do not understand why has not been changed yet. Anyone can explain me a single advantage to call the tables by the word chair?. I really do not understand it. And would love to have an explanation.
The main difference is that if you have a C trumpet, when you are gathered around the piano with friends, you can play the melody as written. In church, you can play off of the hymnal. If you are in a chamber music group and there is a part for violin, flute, or oboe, but they don't have a violinist, flutist, or oboist handy, you can say, "Well, I can play that!" (Not always--the part may go sometimes too high or to low, ubt you can play an octave above or below.)
Yes, most 'trumpet' parts are for B-flat; but any professional or semi-professional trumpeter should have a C trumpet as well. And a strictly amateur can dispense with a B-flat entirely, as most situations he/she will land in will probably involve playing either a vocal line or a part written for a C instrument.
If you're in school, you need a Bb and only a Bb until college, in the US typically.
@@anthonykaiser974 Yes, if you are in HS, you only need q Bflat. But in the real world, unless you are a professional, a C is more useful as you can play off any sheet music. Only a real pro needs a E-flat!
@@brucealanwilson4121 that's (church) actually why I'm debating buying an old German rotary c.
Mind blown. Thank you sir!
I always was mad because I could not find popular sheet music because everything was written in C
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Lukilly if you've got a C Trumpet, C Music will work.
@@RockStarOscarStern634 I did get me one but it has been to long. I can no longer play. I would take years to get my lip back.
@@Nnamdxxx Luckily you can get your lip back by listening to lots of songs.
All the trumpet music I saw growing up was in B flat.
The B flat on the piano seems a liiiiittle bit out of tune
Sounds like we're going to have to replace that with a Yamaha 88 Key Synthesizer
I agree
6:40 Historically we had Natural Trumpets, they were actually pitched an octave lower.
Thank you Sir, this is a very good explanation, now i got it
as a beginner jazz player I often face the problem of not having Bb music sheets (I know that I should memorize tunes...), so I was wondering if it wasn't better to learn notes with their real name, on Bb trumpet
We should just do that, since the beginning
@@ptitpierre1nobody is asking 5th graders to learn transposition.
My dad bought me a c trumpet in band and what my teacher wanted was everyone to get was b flat. I always seemed to have trouble in band was it because I had the wrong trumpet?
Oh my... that's quite a b-flat on that piano. Sounds like me when I try to tune my trumpet and overcompensate ;)
Ha been that way for more than 50 years
@@Rufftips Sorry to tell ya, that piano is in the landfill, but the most significant difference between the two horns is the sound. The C trumpet sounds brighter than the Bb trumpet, but it could also sometimes sound thinner because of the weather conditions.
@@Rufftips Sorry to tell ya, that piano is in the landfill, but the most significant difference between the two horns is the sound. The C trumpet sounds brighter than the Bb trumpet, but it could also sometimes sound thinner because of the weather conditions.
@@Rufftips Those 2 horns also sound different in tone.
thank you so much! no one ever explained this to me before
7:13 High C scale we have Horns in every key cause in Bach's day they didn't have valves.
@UCPu1HMxQ0a-OjnttWA4TkGw
It's good for brass players to have horns in every key so this way it's easier to transpose on the fly to fit the ranges of other instruments, vocalists, or even both especially on a Church gig.
Thanks - very informative!
So you could play a guitar chart in a band on a C trumpet without transposing?
Oldpigsass yes
Thank you for a very informational video. I have 3 questions. 1) Why would anyone buy a Bb trumpet? 2) If I want to compose for a brass quintet, do I use concert C-based (treble clef) notification for all the instruments (trumpet, trumpet, horn, trombone, tuba)? (I believe I've seen scores with c-clef) 3) Which of the 5 instruments in the quintet would use the bass clef?
Your explanation it’s confusing. What about this: the notes in a Bb trumpet are shifted one whole tone down from a C trumpet. Which means that to play a C on a Bb trumpet you have to play a D so it becomes a C. Believe me make sense of what I just said it’s fairly simple and you will get the point.
Brother feel free to do a video and post it I will link to it on my channel. Best, Jon
Bb is for us darker cats lol
Thank you so much
so if I want to play with CD music, would I better buy a C-trumpet and just use piano sheet music?
Sooooo.... I'm hoping to get a straight answer finally to the question ( is it easier to achieve a concert pitch high C on a C or even higher pitched trumpet in adverse to the Bb ? ). Probably obvious to anybody smarter than me.
so touching for an excellent video
Hello thank you for your explanation. As I understood C trumpet not transpose instrument like violin all written in concert pitch
Hi John, I play at church and we only have C trumpet parts. I play on a Bb trumpet. My friends are mind blown that I can "transpose", however that is how I have always played so I don't know that i'm doing it. Now, what key of trumpet would I need to play on to play standard trumpet Bb treble clef, without having to change fingerings. If such instrument (or theoretical instrument) exists, would I have to change key signatures and how? Thanks
Scott Seaver I struggle to understand the totality of this question. B-flat trumpet is a B-flat treble clef trumpet. If you’re transposing C parts this means when you see in the music a B-flat you have to play a C on the B-flat treble clef trumpet. In other words you are playing up a step. If you are playing a B-flat treble clef trumpet part and you see a B-flat you play a B-flat first valve not a C open. The complexity of trying to do this via written word is immense. There is way too much opportunity for confusion. I have no idea your background how you studied or learned to play trumpet. The answers are inside of any band method book one trumpet book. Inside of these books are fingering charts that show the standard fingerings for the B-flat trumpet and the music contained in the book is written for B-flat trumpet. If you grew up playing only in church reading C parts you are transposing and applying transposition fingerings to a B-flat trumpet. Once again I am at a loss to be able to explain all of this in the context offered. Best Jon
When I see middle C on piano music, I compress valves 1&3. However, when I see a note in the exact same spot on trumpet Bb treble clef, it's not the right note and trumpet players don't call it middle C. They call it Bb or something. I am very confused and would wish to play Bb trumpet parts but the fingerings and key signature is different from that of the piano. Like I said my friends are mind blown by the fact I can read SATB but then not read Bb treble clef... (I can play in the bass clef and transpose up an octave so i'm not playing pedals)
Ok now I get it! So you would need an Ab trumpet I think that you would have to have one custom made. To play Bb trumpet parts on a Bb trumpet when you see a C on the paper it is fingered open. This is the fingering you would use at church (when reading piano parts) to play a Bb. You have learned to play in C on a Bb trumpet. To get with the rest of the trumpet world you need to study trumpet fingerings. All trumpets use the same fingerings for the notes they see in their written key. I would get a fingering chart or a band method trumpet book 1. If you learn to finger this way you can buy a C trumpet and read the piano parts using the correct trumpet fingerings. In other words using a C trumpet when reading piano parts you will finger C open and it will sound correct. This is why it is called C trumpet. Both the C trumpet and the piano are playing and reading Concert pitch, or are in C.
Oh nice! Well, do you know anyone that could use an extra few grand to build me an Ab Trumpet?
so on a Bb trumpet, they call it low (even tho the note is Bb) be cause its the low open note? im new to trumpet (at 20 years old haha) and im just making sure im understanding this right
they call it low c*
Nick Taylor This stuff gets confusing rather quickly. No matter what key trumpet you’re playing B-flat, C, E flat and so on the music itself always looks the same. A low C below the staff will always be fingered open no matter what trumpet you’re playing. The difference is what that note or pitch is compared to a concert instrument like Piano. A low C on a B-flat trumpet is a concert B-flat. A low C on a C trumpet is a concert C. A Low C on E flat trumpet is an E flat concert. The music written is always the same and the trumpets pitch or key is determined by its low C and the relation to concert pitch. I hope this helps Best Jon
thanks for the quick response, that makes more sense now!
Why calling it a "low c" when you're plyaing an E flat trumpet? Why don't you just call it an E flat, what it really is? To me it seems like it's a bad habit teaching this to young musicians.
Simple formula: If playing Bb parts on a C horn play down a step and add 2 flats to the key signature. C parts n a Bb horn = play up a step and add 2 sharps to the key.
I'm thinking of buying a C trumpet I want to know if I could still use my B-flat trumpet mouthpiece on it?
Joe Roman You should be able to use the mouthpiece that you play on the B flat for the C trumpet. You may discover there is a better mouthpiece for you on C trumpet. I would not worry about the mouthpiece immediately. I would see if what I have already works. Overtime you can certainly investigate other options. Best, Jon
Thank you so much
Wonderful music theory!!
I'm an alto sax player that just decided to get into brass and bought a Bb Trumpet. I wonder if my sax's C is actually an Eb on concert pitch. This is annoying though. I wish the C on my new trumpet was an actual C so that I could practically play this with friends etc playing piano and whatever else if I tried to share sheet music, instead of calling itself a Bb and its supposed C was actually Bb. Maybe I should have gotten a C trumpet lol.
what a cool guy i loved the video
Thanks for the video! I am learning (Bb) clarinet right now. So if you see music in C, are you transposing in your head as you read it? I can't imagine doing that until years after I get comfortable reading in Bb.
Joshua Tanzer yes you are. If you have C concert music like in a hymnal, yes you need to play 1 full step higher. If you see a C in a hymnal you must play a D on Bb clarinet to match pitch with the organ. This is a bit advanced. You should not need to deal with this for a few years as you learn the instrument.
Thanks! I'm impressed that people can do that. Someday!
Why do you play the reference notes on the piano an octave too low? I think could be confusing to may young players
The reason I'm playing those notes in that octave is the octave above that on this piano is horrifically out of tune on the concert B-flat. The purpose of the video is to define how the keys of these trumpets are determined. The reference notes on the piano are simply the concert pitch that corresponds to the open fundamental of each instrument. I am not demonstrating what exact note on the piano the low C is sounding, I am demonstrating what key the instrument is pitched in according to concert pitch. To determine this I finding that note on the piano. It honestly doesn't matter whether the octave is the same, lower or higher. The key to what the video is trying to achieve is in the narration. Best, Jon
@@Rufftips Yes you need a Synthesizer.
@@Rufftips Yes you need a Synthesizer.
Jon, what type of mouthpiece must be used to play a C trumpet I have used different mouthpieces and the C trumpet seems to always be stuffy it is a ml .460 bore and is a rather new trumpet as opposed to my open blowing ml Bb tpt
Do you have any ideas
Chris Thompson the problems you may be encountering might be due to the medium large C trumpet you have. The most commonly played C trumpets are large bore. If this is an instrument were looking at playing quite a bit of I would recommend getting a large bore. Milano music has a wonderful playing used Bach 229 25 H large bore C trumpet. When it comes to Mountain View selection you might benefit from a different mouthpiece but without knowing what your playing I cannot make recommendations. Best, Jon
milanomusic.com/trumpet/c-trumpet/
7:02 Plays an outta tune Bb Scale
Great video! Thanks!
Always hated the C. I prefer to transpose to the Bb
The C Trumpet sounds rather special so it's new.
I don't understand a thing, however nice video from beginning to end.
Henry Fuentes Riccardi Basically I’m trying to explain that when you’re playing a trumpet in any key the fingerings for the notes are the same but the pitch that is sounding is different. I realize this can be somewhat complex. If you have never played a C trumpet then I certainly understand how it can be confusing.
@@Rufftips Greetings, Im an amateur trumpet player, and I didn't know there were different kind of trumpets, I know what you mean know about the notes in different trumpets, but thank you so much for taking the time to answer my question Sir Rufftips.
I dont understand how Strauss Vater & Son wrote a (sounding) G2 or even E2 for trumpet (better for F-trumpet) hmmmm they wrote trumpets in the meaning of Eb-Alto_Trombone withour coulisse? hmmm
does it mean the trumpet is not a chromatic instrument
Tan Kee ku The modern trumpet is a chromatic instrument. The baroque trumpet was not. The reason we have trumpets in different keys is because of the way Music was written for the orchestra. A certain piece would call for a trumpet in D and the trumpet player would have to use a trumpet pitched in D. Those old trumpets we're not chromatic they did not have valves. Because modern trumpets have valves you can play any trumpet on a piece for any trumpet as long as you transpose and as long as the trumpet you are using can play the full range of the piece. Best, Jon
If the trumpet is chromatic why bother to specify any key for a trumpet since they would be able to be played in any key just like a piano, sorry if my question sound stupid, i just started learning , thanks for the answers
Tan Kee ku what you're not understanding is history we're talking about Mozart's trumpets that played for Mozart while Mozart was alive. Those trumpets were not chromatic. It is tradition. When orchestras started you had to write for trumpets in different keys because they were not chromatic. This tradition continues into today. Each trumpet in each key sounds a little different and composers write for those instruments in that key. Yes, you could easily play a piece written for D trumpet on a C trumpet but you would have to transpose. It is quite simple, there is a tradition because of history to write for trumpets in different keys for pieces that are in different keys. Modern trumpet players in orchestras make decisions about which instrument they're going to use for that particular piece. Sometimes they choose to play a trumpet in the key the piece is written for. In other words a D trumpet for a piece written for D trumpet. Sometimes they will use different trumpet for that piece because they find it easier to play that piece on a trumpet in a different key. The modern invention of valves has changed the way trumpet players approach orchestral pieces. Trumpets are not the only instrument that has evolved through time, modern instrument sound very different than his historical instruments from hundreds of years ago. So once again to answer your question correctly it is tradition to write for different trumpets in different keys and today it has to do with the sound of the instrument in that key. Best, Jon
Tan Kee ku please reread my last reply I had to edit a few things. This is not a problem you have as a young or new student. As you grow and learn more about music and trumpet you'll understand. Just know this, trumpet players have it much easier then French horn players. Best, Jon
Thanks very much for the detail explanation
you're playing the piano an octave lower, lowest f# (concert e) is f#3 not f#2
My doubt is: since all modern trumpets has valves, and almost all instruments in a regular band (not an orquestra) are tuned in C, why new trumpet players are told to start playing a B flat intrument instead of a C, which would spare them the trouble to transpose. How often transposing is needed outside an orquestra? Hope this is a legitimate question.
Morato Q Bb and Eb cornet were the 2 pitched high brass instruments in military band and concert bands that flourished in the late 1800s early 1900s. The Bb cornet was the most popular. Orchestra parts had been traditionally written for trumpet in the key of the piece or movement. This was due to the fact trumpets were natural horns with no valves and could only play the overtones of the key they were pitched in. So understanding this history gives us clues to the modern trumpet and the popularity of Bb.
Bb cornets be came popular in early jazz as trumpets started being used in these groups and the most common key like cornet was Bb. So manufacturers built More Bb trumpets than any other key. Bb trumpets could easily play cornet music because of the same key. Written Music for high brass was in Bb. Orchestra is where transposition is common. Because many pieces were historically written in different keys manufacturers built different trumpets in different keys the most common are Bb, C D Eb and A Bb piccolo there are A trumpets pitched below (Bb) and F trumpets above the (D/Eb) trumpet. There are also G piccolos pitched below the (Bb A) piccolos. These instruments are far less common.
This is how modern orchestra players deal with the trumpet parts in different keys. Because modern composers are aware of the history of each instrument not just trumpet they will write for the particular modern instruments available in different keys. At this point they are all chromatic instruments so it is a matter or register and sound they are looking for.
Most orchestra trumpet players have developed a common approach to playing traditional pieces in different keys. They use different trumpets in different keys and occasionally transpose a particular piece because it works for that piece.
Because the vast majority of “concert band” jazz band and all pop music has been written for Bb instruments we have a tradition. If trumpet players Learned on C they would have to transpose over 150 years of music. You see the transposition is already done by the composer or publisher. It is only when the part or our part is written in a different key do we need to trans pose. Most the time this happens there is a trumpet made in that key. So if you are not reading music and only learning by ear or you only have music in c like a hymnal... buy a C trumpet.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornet#Relationship_to_trumpet
@@Rufftips thanks for caring. Great answer. Cheers.
Low C on a Bb flat trumpet is a not a low C???? I thought notes were associated with sonic frequencies? Ie 440Hz= A. Not making sense to me.
adfasd A low C on any pitched trumpet will be “called” a low C. Low C on a Bb trumpet is called low C because on the music we are reading it in fact is a low C. That low C is sounding a concert Bb. In school concert bands across America the director will say, “let’s tune to a concert Bb please”. The trumpet section plays their C. Even though we have our music with correct pitches written for us it is not written in concert pitch. If you play a C trumpet then you are playing in concert pitch.
A=440 is concert A. If you tune to A=440 on a Bb trumpet in order to match that pitch you have to play 2nd valve B natural. This is because you are playing a Bb trumpet, or a trumpet pitched in Bb. Every concert pitch sounding will be matched by playing a whole step higher. Find a piano and play a C on the piano. Play a concert C on the piano. In order to match it you will have to play a D. Get a free tuner app on your phone. Play your C and see what it shows you on the tuner. It will show a “concert” Bb. This is the relationship of the Bb trumpet to concert pitch.
The tuner app can sound pitches. Have it sound an A. This will be A=440. When you try to match pitch you will have to play a B natural on your Bb trumpet. One full step higher. This is the same A as concert A. That describes notes being played in concert pitch. Flute, Oboe, Violin, Piano, Guitar and piccolo all play in concert pitch. They are described as C instruments, or in C. Bb trumpet is in Bb. This means the pitches we play sound one full step lower than an instrument in C. Our C is a concert Bb.
Is herb alpert famous trumpet Bb?
thank you,thank you
Isn't he playing the wrong c ?
Why not standardise on one tone, instead of introducing tonal incompatibilities between trumpets, that requires either finger-wrenching transpositions of entire pieces, or buying one trumpet per tone, to be sure you always have access to the right trumpet?
Ciofey One reason this will never happen is because Trumpets in different pitches are exactly that. They have different timbre and color. In reality even in the orchestral world there are not that many Trumpets used anymore. The most common would be: B-flat, C, D, E-flat an A piccolo. This actually represents only 4 horns not 5. The D/E-flat is typically an instrument able to play in both keys via changing out slides and bell. You actually mention why players use horns in different keys not just one key. There are pieces that do not lay well on a particular pitched trumpet so the player will select another pitched trumpet to make the piece easier to play because of fingering issues as you mention. I am actually playing a piece currently that would be much easier on a C trumpet then it is on a B-flat trumpet. There are several very awkward trills That would be far easier to produce on a C Trumpet because of moving the key signature for the C trumpet. I realize that this is all very strange and complex and seems like it shouldn’t exist in this “day and age”. Not that it is comforting but in the French Horn world they are constantly reading parts in many keys without the added benefit of being able to pull a instrument up and play it in the key it was meant to be played in. They are always transposing. In theory the answer would be to transpose the parts so they all sit in F. This too shall never happen. This is how it is and the music world is going to accept this now and well into the future.
🎹🎺
Screw transposing, that's why I kinda want a C trumpet.
Most trumpet music is in Bb. Most C trumpet music is for orchestra trumpet, some places just first chair. They sound a bit different.
actually saying c is superior it's the contrary, in general every lower sound is better - has more "meat", that's the difference between a piano and a concert piano - it simply has more body
What's the hardest trumpet/cornet to play?
Simon and Yas That is a very difficult question to answer it really depends upon the person. I would say that Piccolo trumpet takes the most concentration and delicate approach
@@Rufftips Thanks Rufftips.
The piccolo trumpet. Until you learn how to play the piccolo tends to sound like kazoo.
Glad I played tuba, all of them are concert pitch and are non transposing instruments.
you really are taking the long way around the barn.
Cant u just say my low Bb instead of low C which sounds actually Bb?
Jazz seems to be a Bb trumpet only club. Why is that?
Miguel Galan Tradition and the sound you get. B-flat trumpet’s are used in jazz ensembles of different sizes so the music that is written for them is in B-flat. B-flat trumpet has the capability of getting dark and smoky or extremely bright and brilliant. Both ends of the spectrum or hallmarks of jazz trumpet.
🙏🙏🙏👏👏👏👏👏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Oh.. so you're saying their different trumpets?
Eric Preston yes
stomvi.com/en/trumpets
06:49 Did you just fart?
You should tune your piano buddy, but great video
Héctor Oliva Unfortunately that piano no longer exists. That B-flat was always problematic
@@Rufftips Lukilly there's a brand new type of Electronic Keyboard made by yamaha you can have.
Why bother even using a Bb trumpet anymore?
and that piano is a bit flat
For any thinking person this is an insane mess.
Long story short: It's a mess.
The concept of different names for different scales based on the instruments key is so stupid and a waste of time. If it’s a b flat scale based on sound frequency, then it’s a b flat scale, no need to title it anything other than that. To call it a c major scale even those you’re playing Bb notes makes no sense. People collectively should remove that whole system and accept the note it truly is. Such a mind fuck for no reason.
It would make it ridiculously difficult to learn more than one type of the same instrument if that was the case. Like I play alto sax, but I can also play tenor. But if what I was used to as a C was name E♭ on my alto and the same fingering was named B♭ on the tenor sax, than I and many others would undoubtedly be confused.
@@jden_224 understood
That piano is out of tune
Reed Spacer yes it is
Oscar S. The Gadget guy Circuts & strings No. 2 it is in a land fill now.
@@Rufftips Guess we have to replace that with a Yamaha 88 Note Keyboard. Well those 2 Horns are in tune but they sound different.