I hope he does a statement as to what they find as the Root Cause....it seems he’s gotten great support so far🤷🏼♂️ if filter is clean...what caused it?? Particle separator reversed?
I dont know much about the particle separator. Just curious in towing the machine even with a window if it forces air into the air box and may blow the seal out. Just a thought not an engineer though.
If the owner did the last filter change I would say its on him. He should pay the bill. If the honda shop changed the last filter then they are responsible. Very unlikely that there was a problem with the air box design.
Watching the video I noticed that it looked like the oring that seals the filter is missing from under it, always reached both orings and put a thin layer of grease on them before installing and never had an issue
I doubt the air box was properly reinstalled after you added the particle separator. Doubt the air box would have failed if left stock. Is that Honda’s fault? Probably not. If they cover it you got hooked up. Good luck.
I get the whole "let the dealer do my maintenance because I don't have blank, or blank, or blank." But honestly, this is exactly why I do all my own work and maintenance. Dealers just don't do things as carefully as I do. It behooves you to learn about your machines, and make time to work on them yourself. Then you know it's done right.
Thats great that they are taking care of you Ray! Good to hear Honda takes care of their customers and your dealer is great too. Say what you want about Polaris, i know some of it is deserved but they have really taken care of me with my machines as well with the help of a great dealer. Hope to be watching more of your riding vids soon!
This was the exception not the rule. Honda dealers are well trained by the factory to understand that it’s never their fault and really shouldn’t be covered
Yikes, two weeks+ without your ride👎🏻! Happy to hear they are treating you accordingly and with such dignity. Hopefully they will give you an honest answer as to what would have allowed any dirt to get past the filter. I can't imagine what it would have done without the S&B separator on it! Thank you for sharing this Ray.
There is another video out explaining the problem. The rubber boots on the throttle body didn’t seal or crimp properly. Dirt got into the engine and scored the cylinders. Honda payed for the engine on the other unit. Sorry this happened.
Just my opinion, but it’s like this. This man bought a machine from a dealer, bought a product and had it installed at the dealer. The dealer did all the maintenance for this product so it seems. After 7 months a problem arose, so he took it back to the dealer as I would have done. Finds out that the engine is dusted and that it’s probably shot. I would have been pissed as he was. The facts basically are this, a failure happened upstream or downstream of the intake, or even the particle separator (that the dealer installed and was purchased from said dealer). Long and the short is Honda stood up. Now you can debate the fact if they should or shouldn’t but fact of the matter they did (as they should have). They can’t prove he did anything as you all in the comments can’t. This is the problem with warranties in general all this stupid finger pointing. When in actuality the product failed. And this guy did everything right ie.. services done at dealer on time, aftermarket part installed by dealer and so on. Now Ray I would after I got my rig back have some other reputable dealer look at what was done just to cover your own a&@ a little. Yea I read he took is cover off and someone didn’t seat it back properly (BS). They are meant to be checked if that was the problem the dust would have been on the filter as well or even in the housing on the intake side. Honda scored points with me here as with others I’m sure. I own a RZR and I’m sure Polaris wouldn’t have done this. (It would be just my luck). So I’m not a Honda fanboy. Or even a Polaris fanboy. I’m a consumer that thinks companies and dealers should standby their products better. If you sell an extended warranty (honor it) instead of trying to loophole around it.
Nice that Honda is taking care of you. I’m still bitter over how they treated me with my 500 wouldn’t cover my work at all on a leaking crank case seal which was seeping oil. Said it was my fault getting water on a hot engine and causing it to warp. I also blame the dealership they didn’t help much. Have had great luck with my 1000. I feel ya man I was the same way.
To me this sounds like the airbox lid wasnt sealing correctly or had the seal missing. I've got multiple Talons from dealership out there and we check air filters everytime they come in for service and I've never seen dirt in the top part of the air box. Now we live in the eastern side of the country so we dont have quite the dust you guys do. The S&B intake should make the air filter stay clean for well over the mileage you have acquired. I'm glad you got this fixed on Hondas dime, the Talon is a great product but is having be model teething problems. Should that have made it to you? No, but Honda cant control every hand that touches the machine, but is wish they could. Good luck to you in the rest of your Talon ownership.
Sorry this has happened to you. You are the first person I know of that Honda actually covered something under warranty. Probably the only reason they covered it under warranty is the dealership does all your service and maintenance. They couldn't blame it on you. If you had done it yourself you probably be screw right now.
Sorry to see this man . Looks like the top of the air box was leaking letting dirt to bypass the air filter. Honda is going to have to step up and fit there crap. Keep the updates coming and hang in there.
It’s absurd how many people wanna throw the owner under the bus, when he clearly did exactly the same thing that EVERY SINGLE one of us would have done. That being use the product as intended. I’m glad Honda held up their end of the bargain. Enjoy this thing once it’s fixed and put together properly.
I also have a CZcams channel, your videos are excellent, i really enjoy them. I'm researching SXS sport machines now, i've owned 8, and 5 atv's. Honda was on my list, not anymore. I'm sorry your machine is damaged, you're spot on with everything you've stated. Keep posting great videos thank you and stay safe. BTW I'm leaning towards Polaris Pro...i know that's not your thing.
I usually try to save a few bucks by doing work on my car myself, if I can handle it. But seeing what you have gone through, there’s a lot to be said for having work done, and documented, by the dealer or someone authorized. Thank for the information.
Wow! Sorry to hear about the issue, but so glad to know Honda is stepping up! My local dealer had told me that Honda is carefully watching Talon issues, and your situation seems to verify that! Hopefully they’ll get you back on the trail soon! Many companies would have taken one look at the intake modifications and immediately denied your claim.... regardless of the fact that the modification is much needed to address their terrible design!
Glad to hear honda stood behind their product. Kinda cant wait to see what the actual cause was from. Factory error or service tech not making sure airbox was sealed.
everyone said this filter setup was dumb from the get go. this is why. every other machine seals tighter with more engine vacuum on it(filter getting dirty). this setup does not.the seals and theres to many are the weak point.
Hope it all works out for you! With the prices on these machines now they also need to come with longer warranty as well. What I mean is even if this is under warranty, the warranty is not long enough 4 something that is over 20 thousand dollars.
I agree with you Steve. Here these things cost as much if not more than a lot of vehicles do. And from the factory they give you a whopping 6 month warranty. And tell you it has break-in oil in it so drive it real easy for the first little bit. So to protect your new toy investment you do. Although you have now used up some of your warranty time babying it. Then some of us go ahead and buy the extended warranty for the company to find a loophole to not honor said warranty. You know I’m not asking for a three year warranty like cars give. But with that said at least a year or 18 months. Yes I realize that usually the miliage on these things are extremely hard miles. But you also aren’t out beating the crap out of them everyday either. Some get rode more than others sure but most are a weekend ride. Or a vacation week or two on the trails or dunes. A little more engine protection and drive train protection for a 20 or 30 plus thousand dollar machine. Is not to much to ask.
@@j.b.7338 That's why I love my CF Moto. It came with a full year warranty when I bought it back in February 2018. It's been a damn good machine to and I beat the dog shit out of it!!
You can’t blame Honda. You cannot blame Honda for an after market Sand B filtration system that you installed and may have not tightened air clamps and or you did not put the filter in correctly. You are actually lucky that Honda felt sorry for you. If you would read the manual and do what is supposed to be checked prior and after each ride. A simple inspection would would have caught this prior to any engine failure.
You are correct John..I'm glade they covered it for me...Everything that has ever been done to this machine was done by the dealership, Including all maintenance and the installation of S&B particle separator..Purchased at the dealership as well I might add....I don't work on it myself (to old and for health reasons I can't even if I wanted to) nor has any other person, company or tech....Sorry if sound upset with Honda in video, More upset with the situation a guess....Thank you for your feedback man I know HONDA makes great products, and I'm glade they are fixing the problem..
I am truly happy for you that Honda and the dealership stood by your side. and your videos are always a blessing. Honda is by the far the most reliable machine than any other manufacturer. I have a Polaris RZR turbo, Honda pioneer, Honda Talon with the turbo. Will take the Honda’s hands down. After the dealership installed the turbo kit and I put 200 miles on her, I went back and re torqued and found a few things that needed to tightened again. Suggestion: read the owners manual and you will have a check list of riding before and after that makes you touch, look, lubricate, and or smell and will give a good indications of the status of your machine. Appreciate your videos and looking forward to see you riding soon.
The S&B particle separator is a Honda accesory and I'm sure his dealer installed it. They caused this it seems, do some research before leaving your opinion.
Last tech that worked on it obviously forgot to tighten the clamps from the filter box to the intake hoses. It’s the only way that could happen like that. I know
Highly recommend if you buy a talon is to go through the intake system and check everything. I found a loose bult only 2 threads in in my intake. On my 2021 live valve. I red locktighted every bolt in the intake and crushed the threads on the clamps so they dont come loose. I also check my filter after everyride and everything has been perfect since
Hi Ray, awesome video I'm glad Honda took care of it! I'm not 100% on this but I think Honda figured out that not only do you need to change the air filter but you also need to change the intake filter enclosure seals. I have a buddy that picked up a new air filter today and the filter also came with 2 seals for the intake enclosure. I'm assuming it's for the top and bottom of the filter enclosure. I would ask the dealer if the intake filter replacement came with those seals when they did the service. My guess is they didn't which is why Honda took care of it and is now including the seals or they just failed to put the new seals in? The old seal gets flat and allows crap right into the throttle bodies. Maybe that's what happened in your case?
Hi Ray, Love your videos, always informative. I too agree with most here that you are lucky that Honda covered a new engine. As others have mentioned, after market parts will more than likely void the warranty even if they are put on by the dealership. I think this would be understood by anyone in the auto industry. But non the less, I any happy that Honda gave you a happy resolution to this more than like installation error. Even with an extended warranty, items like this would not be covered, lucky, lucky, lucky. Still like your videos and hope to see more. Just a thought, I wonder how much the dealer is kicking in to get this issue resolved since it was more than likely their error?
The issue you had isn't Honda's fault at all. Whoever messed with the air filter last is at fault. I can pretty much guarantee that the airbox lid wasn't clamped properly, or the lid wasn't seated properly and dirt bypassed the filter. Your lucky honda is covering it, because this wasn't a manufacturer defect.
@@bmwsjt the dealer isn't honda. They are just a dealer that sells and works on them. Honda has a pretty good warranty track record, so it doesn't surprise me that they are covering his engine, eventhough the issue wasn't caused my a manufacturing defect. Like I said. His problem was caused by the last person to mess with the airbox.
@@MrRottincorps lol, a challange! I agree, but the dealer has trained and qualified Honda tech's, who are an integral part of Mother Honda and without them Honda could not exist. I also agree that there is a difference between the factories and the dealers, but Mother Honda is RESPONSIBLE for work done at her dealers.
@@chadwickschwerdt1335 why call the guy a goof. Even if he did open the air box who cares. They covered it and made themselves look good. Good on honda and that dealership.
Good video Ray, glad Honda is stepping up. The S and B was obviously doing its job, so why all of the dirt on the clean side of the air filter? Possibly a loose clamp or defect of some kind in the air box?
Doubt this is Honda's design flaw or related issue, otherwise it would be a recall due to too many people having exact the same problem. Unless you have deformed airbox or seal, this issue was more likely caused by human error during maintenance, such as the airbox no properly closed or latched etc....that's possible what Honda will tell you or just decide to take the loss to preserve their name and reputation.
It's not Hondas fault. It's whoever installed that godly looking snorkel. They wiggled the throttle body intakes loose causing a leak. I seal mine with a bit of anti seize. Only need a pin hole for dust to get in. Even could've been loose on the throttle bodies from delivery and never got checked during the vehicle inspection during unpacking before hitting the lot.
Justin White I’m not sure what happened But thanks for the feedback Justin...the S&B particle separator is actually designed to reduce the amount of dust entering the airbox before it hits the air filter I never really thought of it as a snorkel I don’t live in an area with water... it’s desert environment but I’m not sure exactly what happened if it was at the dealership or during the build
@@47rhorvath I'd say the particle box and filter did it's job. The throttle boots are dirty showing dust and air coming in right at the connection, because the clean air passing the filter shows it only being dirty in those 2 spots at the throttle connection. A swirl effect of a vacuum hitting against constant air pressure in the dirtiest most dusty spot of the motor right in between four wheels. Could've been wiggled loose could've got missed during inspection or even the building process at honda. Atleast she will be fixed up for you.
@@Cronicncars I agree with your assessment, I wonder if the dealer may have loosened the boots for whatever reason during the installation process and didn't re-tighten? Non the less, this is an expensive lesson to lean for anyone who installs a particle separator which I believe is a great aftermarket mod, o0ne that I would consider. Again, I am happy that Honda is taking care of this.
Not judging but I'm sure I'm going to get some crap over this. Watching your videos for a while. Your rambling on how it's a manufacturing problem. Constantly babbling on, and on ,without waiting for Honda to check their findings. Then at the end of your video Honda is going to replace your engine. So now you go ahead and posting a 16 + minutes of BASHING A COMPANY. Knowing in post production of the video, that you didn't need to put a bunch of negativity. I am a certified Macanic work on aircraft for 30 years. Looking at the air filter(clean no dust or dirt) and proximity of the dirt in both intakes. If you never opened the air box to verify the work done by the dealership, 1st thing comes to mind THERE WAS NO AIR FILTER IN THIS CAR. Not a manufacturing issue.
Hello !! Sorry to hear that ! Hope Honda takes take of it!!! I always tell people that the biggest hole in a motor is the air intake !!! That being said I always check the air intake on all motors!!!!! A air intake is like a vacuum sucking outside air especially if the vehicle is a off-road vehicle....!!! Hope they fix it!!!!🙏🙌
Just a helpful thing I do..I use silicone grease on the rubber seals in the airboxes to help make solid seal..use a just a small amont ....doe get dirty but that so good(trapping even more dirt) and is easy to clean off an next air filter change! This really looks like a failure installing the air filter correctly( possibly upside down) and make sure it was seated unless there is some warpage in the box not allowing filter to sit flat and in contact OR the lid wasnt attached all the way on correctly,,,,,.maybe there is a crack in the airbox lid??? One more thing...the air particle separator could be a possible cause...if it is restricting any airflow to the air intake then by physics and faster high speed driving the suction is going to continue to suck and pull air thru the path of least resistance...thus maybe pulling flow thru the seams of the airbox not protected by the filter even if filter is correctly seated! Just a possibility...
I had a similar but worse situation where the throttle body hose clamp vibrated loose the screw that holds the clamp.... Was at atv park an laid it on side not a hard lay over on passenger side got out of the machine had few people help set it up right . We let it set for 45min to an hour to let oil return to the crankcase . Went to start it an had a knock in the motor had no clue what had happened at the time . Started it again an locked up the engine .. screw got cought between cylinder an valve... So I got screwed
Honda stood tall...however, the dealership added a particle separator and the filter had been changed. Any of those actions could have resulted in improper alignment of the filter box cover. At the end of the day, Honda took care of an issue that may or may not have been their fault.
Bill, I'm glade they did...Sorry I sound upset with Honda in video, More upset with the situation a guess....HONDA makes great products, and I'm glade they are fixing the problem..
Poor airbox design in my opinion. The air filter should be accessed from the dirty side. Under vacuum if that seal leaks the dirty air bypasses the filter completely
Kyle Chrestman Hahahaha absolutely I was just thinking that. Honda Took entire responsibility and replace the entire engine at not cost . Was a scary times for this Honda Talon owner but they replaced the motor good
the dude did something to his bike being water or dust or even snow dust can make your bike run bad and he checked the air filter and didn't get it sealed back up I would put money on it
Was fuel pressure checked? Also, most likely if the filter is clean it is not going into the airbox. They serviced the air filter n forgot to tighten the clamps that go onto the throttle body. It was sucking dirt for a while past the boots that connect to the throttle body causing cylinder wall damage. However, when it sucked in snow it became noticeable. Remember snow is water. Water mixed with fuel in the combustion chamber..it will run terrible. Just my thoughts. Also, pretty sure you cannot get an accurate compression reading due to the automatic decompression lever that is on the camshaft. You have to do a leak down test. just fyi.
Sorry for you trouble, at least Honda is taking care of you. I have a 2017 Polaris Razor that had the same exact problem. When I bought it new I paid $2,000 for an extended warranty. Along with that warranty I had to sign a waiver that I would only use Polaris brand air filters. Dirt got past the filter and caused $3,500 in damage to the motor. Polaris would not cover a penny of the repairs. They won't cover dirt ingestion. I asked them what's the point of signing that air filter waiver. They couldn't give me an answer. Good luck and keep up the videos.
Kieran Mann that’s horrible. Did your dealer try to appeal it or were they the ones denying the claim? My dealer recommended not buying the extended warranty and just working through any failed parts with them which gave me about a $2000 pot to spend if anything goes bad. The RZR turbos are pretty perfected since 2018 and have pretty reliable drivetrains, so not really worried. Working well for the first 1.5 yrs with 1300 miles. I hate buying warranties on anything but the Polaris warranty seems overpriced compared to other manufacturers.
That sucks man! Thanks for the video. I'm beginning to look at SxS's and the Talon was a consideration. Hope Honda does the right thing. I think I'll stick with the RZR.
The crappy Honda intake sytem is the reason the "particle separator" was installed, and one of the many reasons I choose a '20 Gen 2 YXZ1000R over a Talon.
This is pretty bad coming from Honda. I had a Africa twin which I heard is the same engine in this machine and it was ultra reliable. As you pointed out, the weak leak is the airbox.
I had a polaris.900 and first servicec300 miles after first service it burn a quart of oil every 60 miles polaris said normal and would do nothing. I got rid of it . so crap happen
That's pretty awesome of Honda to do! I am surprised they stepped up with the aftermarket add to the air system. That's usually their out - any manufacturer that is given an reason to say - Sorry you altered the original design. Or simply say operator error. Not possible to so unless the operator didnt get the air box sealed correctly. This may be the reason I buy a Honda! Cuz caca happens! Fred Baca hhmmm That's not Fred Baca from Santa Fe is it? Bill's fan and all?
Ray, Even if something wasn’t sealed up from the factory during assembly, the dust in the intake should’ve been noticed when maintenance was performed by your dealership.
Ray Horvath Productions That’s understandable, but your video was aimed towards Honda and the Talon being unreliable. I’m very certain this was an error by your dealership that caused the damage and nothing to do with Honda.
@@gravesru What I was told by the dealership...."Error during assembly" I'm not taking shots at Honda, if you saw the entire video I speak about how they are known for making GREAT products.....But things can happen when wrenches are turned at the dealership, or when put together during build...
Ray Horvath Productions I did watch the entire video and it appears you were frustrated with Honda or at least that’s how it comes across to me when I watch it. I did hear you express the reputation Honda has, but it also seemed you were blaming Honda for this issue. I’m glad someone stepped up to cover it because it isn’t your fault. This is why I don’t let anyone else work on my vehicles. They push them through and don’t have the time to double check things or care half as much as I do about my vehicle.
Honda Talon Turbo Owner I agree.. no one is going to take care of your vehicle like yourself. Let’s assume this happened to you.... and I know you are a very talented technician and mechanic.... Would Honda have covered A total engine loss in your situation or anyone else that has done work on their own machines? Or would they write it off stating that modifications have been done by someone other than an authorized dealership??....This is a question I’m insatiably curious about? Either way I appreciate and respect your feedback we still need to ride together sometime.
It's a shame that your ride ended up with a damaged motor. I'm sure your one of the very few who's had this type of issue, or rather I hope as I just picked up a 2021 Talon 1000R about 5 days ago.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm personally not saying it's Honda's Fault, I'm only saying what the dealership has told me up to this point. "The Engine is being replaced by Honda because the tubes from the air box into the throttle bodies were put together correctly during the build process." This is all the information I have been given up to this point. All work has been done at the dealership. I should have more specifics next week.
Glad you're being taking care of by the dealer. I own a pioneer 1k and since I purchased new, it's been back to the dealer 3 separate times due to their DCT transmission. The first 2 times the dealer basically took care of the repair bill but this last time it was under a recall. That said, seems Honda has always taken care of their customers. It has been frustrating b/c just like you said, I choose Honda due to their quality. Good luck
Did your dealer or Honda have any insight as to what allowed dust to get into the engine? Just bought an X4 Live -Valve and would like to investigate this if this is a more widespread problem. Glad Honda is taking care of it! Thanks!
I’ll have more information in a few days but from what I understand there was something to do with the way the rubber seals were crimped where they connect to the throttle bodies
Shit happens. That’s what warranty is for. You keep going on and on about Honda reliability, we’ll nothing is made perfect. And again, that’s what warranty is for.
Sounds like you lucked out with Honda covering the motor. The air box needs removing to check the valves. If the intake issue was not found on the services that required valve adjustment or air filter replacement, then it's more than likely the last person that removed the air box cover, caused the issue. The cover needs to seal well. If not, it will allow dirty air past the filter (mentioned). The only other part of the service that might cause the issue is connecting the engine vent hose or the filter drain. Not sure of your mileage (seem like at least 800 miles) but assembly at the factory is likely not an issue. It's more than likely a service related failure. Honda covering it, kinda means you lucked out unless they can give you a clear explanation to their mistake.
Thanks Max....I'm glade they did...Sorry I sound upset with Honda in video, More upset with the situation a guess....HONDA makes great products, and I'm glade they are fixing the problem..
What engine code? Mine don’t idle rough but is only idling at 200 rpm’s five or take, it stays steady and runs fine when I hit the throttle, after watching this I’m freaking out l, cause some how I got alittle dirt down in my throttle body same place ass your but it’s NOT NEAR as bad as yours, the code mine is saying is 102. Says (sticky throttle valve) I’m terrified to have engine failed like this I just bought it use 2 months ago. Like i said it runs smooth even at 200 rpm’s, seems to run fine what I hit the throttle. Plz get back with me!
It cracks me up when I see the Air Filter in the Honda Talon as it looks almost identical to the air filters you'd find in a CR-V, Pilot, etc. The stock location that Honda put the intake on these cars is really stupid which is why your first air filter got so dirty so quickly. I'm willing to bet that Honda will be relocating and re-engineering the air intake in a future model soon because (IMHO) the flat filter has too much room for failure in seating it properly and getting sealed. I'm glad to hear Honda is replacing the engine on this however since this happened thousands of miles into usage that there most likely have been some human error involved too. In one of your previous videos, you removed the air filter while on the trail which isn't something I'd recommend unless you really have to and personally if I'm removing the air filter for any reason it's always going to get cleaned (or replaced depending on what you're using). Just like you should be going through and tightening all your bolts, etc on a regular basis I'd also make sure that your air system is secured on a regular basis, especially out west where we tend to have a lot more dust.
I appreciate the feedback I know which video are you referring to I did not remove it on the trail I just took it out there and shot my it had been removed at the dealership but I agree with your theory.
As you can see in my pic profile I'm a proud owner of a trx700xx. Leaning for a couple of months on a yxz ss se 2019+ used and I think I will go back to Yamaha! Had a blaster, banshee and kodiak that were very reliable.
Hi Ray I was just wondering on your KRX if you experience a lot of dust coming up from those holes in the floor close to to the seats . I seen on deranged off road they made some comments on that. Also I was wondering on the cab heat and noise compared to your other units , I enjoy your videos and your honesty . I personally own a 2019 X2 Special Edition with the full cab system but I live in Newfoundland Canada lots of great riding areas up here take care my friend.
Corey Bridger Yes I do. Been trying to purchase the cab seal kit. They have been out of stock for while now. Heat does come through especially on the hot days, noise is not bad.
@@47rhorvath Yes it is on my X2 I have the full hard cab with the heater etc . I live right on the most eastern part of Canada in the Province of Newfoundland . Our summers are nice but very short for warm temps are concerned so for me the heat is ok , but on my machine if it is above 22 degrees Celsius it is too warm in the cab.
WoW!! I just bought a Honda Talon 1000 R on 3/7/2020. Got it for $17,300. But after my extended warranty and TTL and everything else they added on it came out to $28,000. That even after a $5,000 deposit.thanks for sharing your experience.
I’d say warranty and could be a oddity , like you said built by a man , might have had a bad day and missed something! But should be covered as long as there’s no owner caused issues!
Not necessarily, in the RZR world it's common for if your air filter cannot pass enough air through quick enough that the intake track will start sucking in fine particles of dust where it can. Nothing is completely hermetically sealed against fine dust. If this is the case the finer dust will eventually push those little hairline openings even wider and allow a larger dust particles to come in. It seems like your intake track from the particle separator is large enough but I question if that particle separator is wide enough to really feed it all very well especially considering you have a windshield blocking in its path to air by way of cabin negative pressure.
The math doesn’t add up. There’s pretty much no way that NA engine could put consume the airflow that the S&B can flow. Hell a 2” pipe can flow 500 plus CFM and that engine can’t draw more than 120 CFM at 8000 rpm...
Or maybe just a bad seal at air box. a slight warp to it and filter wasn't sealing. I'm glad that Honda is replacing the motor but it would be really good to find out what caused it because whereas you're in a Dusty environment it seems it would be a real good idea to try to prevent it from happening again. For added safety I'd almost suggest getting some frog skin wrap to put at each of your intake joints so at least eliminate the possibility there and maybe a bit of Grease or oil on the rim of your filter and air box seal if it has one. could even have been like a twig or a bent over section of rubber on the Seal of the filter thats started it all. Oh the great unknowns
The same thing happens to present day RZR where users change out the OEM filter to a free flow aftermarket. All aftermarkets let the fine stuff pass and dust the engines. Will probably take time for Honda to figure out the filter media issue.
Even Honda Lawnmowers have the panel style air filter down low on the engine. My previous Australian made Victa lawnmover has the air filter high on the handle. These type of side by sides should have a completely sealed roof mounted air filter. Honda are loosing quality on their products with each update.
It has a stock air intake system the only thing that was installed by the dealership and purchased at the dealership was the S&B particle separator which works as a pre-filter. The dealership does all of the maintenance and work... if you’re familiar with the way the particle separator works, it’s installed before the air intake ever hits the factory airbox.It’s meant to reduce the amount of dirt that actually hits the filter area before it goes through. If you watch my previous videos it might give you a better understanding or explanation. If you watch the end of the video you will see where I indicated that Honda is replacing the entire engine.
bad desighn for an offroad filtration system. to many leak points. nothing to do with the pre filter. obviously the lid wasn't put on correctly or the box was leaking some how on the clean side. this is why you need a donaldson or donaldson type that has positive engagement. the mavs and polaris are pretty much fullproof.the mav is like a Donaldson and the polaris could be run without the cover because its on the dirty side. if i hear better quality one more time im going to puke.
@@thomasblais3612 i cant recall what they look like but i trust you. its not really that the others are good as much as the honda one is bad. lets for instance say everything on it is working as it should and you ride in a dusty environment and get your filter dirty. you go to change and there is so much surface area on the clean side around the filter your probly going to have to be an operation champion not to accidentally knock dirt off onto the clean side of the box. i would fill compelled to have to whipe it down every time you changed. correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it pulling away from the gasket around the element? i know it has screws to help hold it but doesn't it make more since to have the vacuum increase the sealing power rather than pull against.
After talking to Darin at LCMS, I got home and rechecked mine. Still perfect, but I now check before every ride.….Still pretty sure I want the particle sep, but again, will wait until what you hear from Honda
@@47rhorvath In the video you can see clean plastic next to dirt on that airbox on the TB side (in 2-3 spots from what I can see in the video with it resting on the front wheel) Note the filter side it is all clean. Seems to me the problem is that housing and the cover that goes with it isn't sealing around the TB tubes side of that part. Looks like it has clips attaching it to the other half of the housing. So either it wasn't sat right/clipped together well enough or is a design flaw with that airbox housing. When this is fixed an additional seal should be used (if its bad desgin) around that housing or a different airbox be used. You can test it by placing clay or something around that seal, clipping the housings together and taking it apart to see if it is indeed making a full seal. If it does then you know the last tech who had the airbox apart didn't have it fully seated. If it doesnt seal then you know its a desgin flaw and should look into the aftermarket for a new filter setup and let honda know of the issue directly (not the dealer.) Good luck.
Saving Grace maybe because you’re deluded by your brand loyalty? Polaris, Can Am, Kawasaki, it doesn’t matter. They all make quality machines but can and do fail. Honda is not some messiah amongst other manufacturers, and I’m so tired of hearing this “iTs A hOndA iT cAnT dIe” shit. It’s nonsense.
Onyx Guard I don’t even own a Honda product that’s not brand loyalty. Everyone has their good ones but with Honda’s known quality control it just surprises me the amount of issues that are occurring
You said you went 1400 miles on the last filter change I don't care what you got you cannot ride it dust and dirt for 1400 miles without dust penetrating though make sure you let Honda know you went that long also you said you found no leeks well that leaves one thing
The air filter service interval is actually longer than that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but you may not understand completely how the induction system works even if the air filter was left on for 8000 miles under complete dusty conditions it should have been completely filthy, dirty and choked off while the filter was clean .......the dirt got in through the throttlebody necks as explained by my dealership...also there are many other people that have had the same exact issue. I no longer own this machine Honda purchased it back acknowledging it was and error during assembly......however everyone is entitled to their opinion thanks for the view and the comment.
Sounds like some one didn't get the air box cover put back on properly
If I had to guess, the airbox wasn't fitted back on properly all the way at some point.
Sounds to me like the airbox wasn’t shut tight after the last filter change.
That the direction I an leaning toward.
I hope he does a statement as to what they find as the Root Cause....it seems he’s gotten great support so far🤷🏼♂️ if filter is clean...what caused it?? Particle separator reversed?
I dont know much about the particle separator. Just curious in towing the machine even with a window if it forces air into the air box and may blow the seal out. Just a thought not an engineer though.
If the owner did the last filter change I would say its on him. He should pay the bill. If the honda shop changed the last filter then they are responsible. Very unlikely that there was a problem with the air box design.
Honda is having problems with the seal on the throttle body after the filters.
Watching the video I noticed that it looked like the oring that seals the filter is missing from under it, always reached both orings and put a thin layer of grease on them before installing and never had an issue
I doubt the air box was properly reinstalled after you added the particle separator. Doubt the air box would have failed if left stock. Is that Honda’s fault? Probably not. If they cover it you got hooked up. Good luck.
agreed
I get the whole "let the dealer do my maintenance because I don't have blank, or blank, or blank." But honestly, this is exactly why I do all my own work and maintenance. Dealers just don't do things as carefully as I do. It behooves you to learn about your machines, and make time to work on them yourself. Then you know it's done right.
Exactly!
You always have to wonder if he didn’t seal up the box, or waited to long to change the filter, or whatever the case may be😂
You air filter was new and replaced once already. Someone left something loose. I don't think its hondas problem. I'm sure they will investigate.
Thats great that they are taking care of you Ray! Good to hear Honda takes care of their customers and your dealer is great too. Say what you want about Polaris, i know some of it is deserved but they have really taken care of me with my machines as well with the help of a great dealer. Hope to be watching more of your riding vids soon!
This was the exception not the rule. Honda dealers are well trained by the factory to understand that it’s never their fault and really shouldn’t be covered
After watching this... I think I’ll inspect my entire intake system!
shaun thacker nice pic
Jake81283 Yours is great as well!!
Great job by Honda. That would have been a huge mistake not having your back in this particular situation.
Yikes, two weeks+ without your ride👎🏻! Happy to hear they are treating you accordingly and with such dignity. Hopefully they will give you an honest answer as to what would have allowed any dirt to get past the filter. I can't imagine what it would have done without the S&B separator on it! Thank you for sharing this Ray.
There is another video out explaining the problem. The rubber boots on the throttle body didn’t seal or crimp properly. Dirt got into the engine and scored the cylinders. Honda payed for the engine on the other unit. Sorry this happened.
Just my opinion, but it’s like this. This man bought a machine from a dealer, bought a product and had it installed at the dealer. The dealer did all the maintenance for this product so it seems. After 7 months a problem arose, so he took it back to the dealer as I would have done. Finds out that the engine is dusted and that it’s probably shot. I would have been pissed as he was. The facts basically are this, a failure happened upstream or downstream of the intake, or even the particle separator (that the dealer installed and was purchased from said dealer). Long and the short is Honda stood up. Now you can debate the fact if they should or shouldn’t but fact of the matter they did (as they should have). They can’t prove he did anything as you all in the comments can’t. This is the problem with warranties in general all this stupid finger pointing. When in actuality the product failed. And this guy did everything right ie.. services done at dealer on time, aftermarket part installed by dealer and so on. Now Ray I would after I got my rig back have some other reputable dealer look at what was done just to cover your own a&@ a little. Yea I read he took is cover off and someone didn’t seat it back properly (BS). They are meant to be checked if that was the problem the dust would have been on the filter as well or even in the housing on the intake side. Honda scored points with me here as with others I’m sure. I own a RZR and I’m sure Polaris wouldn’t have done this. (It would be just my luck). So I’m not a Honda fanboy. Or even a Polaris fanboy. I’m a consumer that thinks companies and dealers should standby their products better. If you sell an extended warranty (honor it) instead of trying to loophole around it.
1000% Agree
I don’t think anybody could have said it more accurately
Absolutely agree with you here!
@@JollyGreen79 For Sure!!
Nice that Honda is taking care of you. I’m still bitter over how they treated me with my 500 wouldn’t cover my work at all on a leaking crank case seal which was seeping oil. Said it was my fault getting water on a hot engine and causing it to warp. I also blame the dealership they didn’t help much. Have had great luck with my 1000. I feel ya man I was the same way.
To me this sounds like the airbox lid wasnt sealing correctly or had the seal missing.
I've got multiple Talons from dealership out there and we check air filters everytime they come in for service and I've never seen dirt in the top part of the air box. Now we live in the eastern side of the country so we dont have quite the dust you guys do.
The S&B intake should make the air filter stay clean for well over the mileage you have acquired.
I'm glad you got this fixed on Hondas dime, the Talon is a great product but is having be model teething problems. Should that have made it to you? No, but Honda cant control every hand that touches the machine, but is wish they could.
Good luck to you in the rest of your Talon ownership.
Sorry this has happened to you. You are the first person I know of that Honda actually covered something under warranty. Probably the only reason they covered it under warranty is the dealership does all your service and maintenance. They couldn't blame it on you. If you had done it yourself you probably be screw right now.
Exactly!!!
Sorry to see this man . Looks like the top of the air box was leaking letting dirt to bypass the air filter. Honda is going to have to step up and fit there crap. Keep the updates coming and hang in there.
It’s absurd how many people wanna throw the owner under the bus, when he clearly did exactly the same thing that EVERY SINGLE one of us would have done. That being use the product as intended. I’m glad Honda held up their end of the bargain. Enjoy this thing once it’s fixed and put together properly.
Either you or the dealer didn’t install the cover correctly. If it was the dealer I would sue them.
I also have a CZcams channel, your videos are excellent, i really enjoy them. I'm researching SXS sport machines now, i've owned 8, and 5 atv's. Honda was on my list, not anymore. I'm sorry your machine is damaged, you're spot on with everything you've stated. Keep posting great videos thank you and stay safe. BTW I'm leaning towards Polaris Pro...i know that's not your thing.
Looks like you or the dealership put the air filter in wrong so that dust could get past it 🤷🏻♂️
I usually try to save a few bucks by doing work on my car myself, if I can handle it. But seeing what you have gone through, there’s a lot to be said for having work done, and documented, by the dealer or someone authorized. Thank for the information.
Still love Honda reliability and they did right by you what ever the problem was. Enjoy your vids!
Wow! Sorry to hear about the issue, but so glad to know Honda is stepping up! My local dealer had told me that Honda is carefully watching Talon issues, and your situation seems to verify that! Hopefully they’ll get you back on the trail soon! Many companies would have taken one look at the intake modifications and immediately denied your claim.... regardless of the fact that the modification is much needed to address their terrible design!
Glad to hear honda stood behind their product. Kinda cant wait to see what the actual cause was from. Factory error or service tech not making sure airbox was sealed.
everyone said this filter setup was dumb from the get go. this is why. every other machine seals tighter with more engine vacuum on it(filter getting dirty). this setup does not.the seals and theres to many are the weak point.
Hope it all works out for you! With the prices on these machines now they also need to come with longer warranty as well. What I mean is even if this is under warranty, the warranty is not long enough 4 something that is over 20 thousand dollars.
I agree, I hope this dealership takes care of you Ray...Our family love your videos..Please keep uploading and let us all know how this turns out.
I agree with you Steve. Here these things cost as much if not more than a lot of vehicles do. And from the factory they give you a whopping 6 month warranty. And tell you it has break-in oil in it so drive it real easy for the first little bit. So to protect your new toy investment you do. Although you have now used up some of your warranty time babying it. Then some of us go ahead and buy the extended warranty for the company to find a loophole to not honor said warranty. You know I’m not asking for a three year warranty like cars give. But with that said at least a year or 18 months. Yes I realize that usually the miliage on these things are extremely hard miles. But you also aren’t out beating the crap out of them everyday either. Some get rode more than others sure but most are a weekend ride. Or a vacation week or two on the trails or dunes. A little more engine protection and drive train protection for a 20 or 30 plus thousand dollar machine. Is not to much to ask.
@@j.b.7338 That's why I love my CF Moto. It came with a full year warranty when I bought it back in February 2018. It's been a damn good machine to and I beat the dog shit out of it!!
I just bought a 2021 Talon X. I'll be interested to find the videos that show how this played out. I think your Honda dealer messed it up.
Nice to see Honda stand behind there product! I hope you get it back soon.
so so happy to hear this right on Honda
You can’t blame Honda. You cannot blame Honda for an after market Sand B filtration system that you installed and may have not tightened air clamps and or you did not put the filter in correctly. You are actually lucky that Honda felt sorry for you. If you would read the manual and do what is supposed to be checked prior and after each ride. A simple inspection would would have caught this prior to any engine failure.
You are correct John..I'm glade they covered it for me...Everything that has ever been done to this machine was done by the dealership, Including all maintenance and the installation of S&B particle separator..Purchased at the dealership as well I might add....I don't work on it myself (to old and for health reasons I can't even if I wanted to) nor has any other person, company or tech....Sorry if sound upset with Honda in video, More upset with the situation a guess....Thank you for your feedback man I know HONDA makes great products, and I'm glade they are fixing the problem..
I am truly happy for you that Honda and the dealership stood by your side. and your videos are always a blessing. Honda is by the far the most reliable machine than any other manufacturer. I have a Polaris RZR turbo, Honda pioneer, Honda Talon with the turbo. Will take the Honda’s hands down. After the dealership installed the turbo kit and I put 200 miles on her, I went back and re torqued and found a few things that needed to tightened again. Suggestion: read the owners manual and you will have a check list of riding before and after that makes you touch, look, lubricate, and or smell and will give a good indications of the status of your machine. Appreciate your videos and looking forward to see you riding soon.
The S&B particle separator is a Honda accesory and I'm sure his dealer installed it.
They caused this it seems, do some research before leaving your opinion.
Last tech that worked on it obviously forgot to tighten the clamps from the filter box to the intake hoses. It’s the only way that could happen like that. I know
Glad Honda is taking care of you..👍👍👍
Highly recommend if you buy a talon is to go through the intake system and check everything. I found a loose bult only 2 threads in in my intake. On my 2021 live valve. I red locktighted every bolt in the intake and crushed the threads on the clamps so they dont come loose. I also check my filter after everyride and everything has been perfect since
Hi Ray, awesome video I'm glad Honda took care of it! I'm not 100% on this but I think Honda figured out that not only do you need to change the air filter but you also need to change the intake filter enclosure seals. I have a buddy that picked up a new air filter today and the filter also came with 2 seals for the intake enclosure. I'm assuming it's for the top and bottom of the filter enclosure. I would ask the dealer if the intake filter replacement came with those seals when they did the service. My guess is they didn't which is why Honda took care of it and is now including the seals or they just failed to put the new seals in? The old seal gets flat and allows crap right into the throttle bodies. Maybe that's what happened in your case?
Thanks
Ray Horvath Productions Time for an UPDATE
@@user-se5zz3yj9c I agree, work has been keeping me busy, However I should have another video this Sunday...Thanks Darren
Hi Ray, Love your videos, always informative. I too agree with most here that you are lucky that Honda covered a new engine. As others have mentioned, after market parts will more than likely void the warranty even if they are put on by the dealership. I think this would be understood by anyone in the auto industry. But non the less, I any happy that Honda gave you a happy resolution to this more than like installation error. Even with an extended warranty, items like this would not be covered, lucky, lucky, lucky. Still like your videos and hope to see more. Just a thought, I wonder how much the dealer is kicking in to get this issue resolved since it was more than likely their error?
The issue you had isn't Honda's fault at all. Whoever messed with the air filter last is at fault. I can pretty much guarantee that the airbox lid wasn't clamped properly, or the lid wasn't seated properly and dirt bypassed the filter. Your lucky honda is covering it, because this wasn't a manufacturer defect.
The Honda dealer did all the service work, and they are "Honda". It's on them. They don't give away engines for no good reason...
@@bmwsjt the dealer isn't honda. They are just a dealer that sells and works on them. Honda has a pretty good warranty track record, so it doesn't surprise me that they are covering his engine, eventhough the issue wasn't caused my a manufacturing defect. Like I said. His problem was caused by the last person to mess with the airbox.
@@MrRottincorps lol, a challange! I agree, but the dealer has trained and qualified Honda tech's, who are an integral part of Mother Honda and without them Honda could not exist. I also agree that there is a difference between the factories and the dealers, but Mother Honda is RESPONSIBLE for work done at her dealers.
@@mattdyer489 probably the goof that made this video
@@chadwickschwerdt1335 why call the guy a goof. Even if he did open the air box who cares. They covered it and made themselves look good. Good on honda and that dealership.
Good video Ray, glad Honda is stepping up. The S and B was obviously doing its job, so why all of the dirt on the clean side of the air filter? Possibly a loose clamp or defect of some kind in the air box?
What was wrong with the shock? I don't think Honda has the quality they used to have when everything was built in Japan.
Doubt this is Honda's design flaw or related issue, otherwise it would be a recall due to too many people having exact the same problem.
Unless you have deformed airbox or seal, this issue was more likely caused by human error during maintenance, such as the airbox no properly closed or latched etc....that's possible what Honda will tell you or just decide to take the loss to preserve their name and reputation.
It's not Hondas fault. It's whoever installed that godly looking snorkel. They wiggled the throttle body intakes loose causing a leak. I seal mine with a bit of anti seize. Only need a pin hole for dust to get in. Even could've been loose on the throttle bodies from delivery and never got checked during the vehicle inspection during unpacking before hitting the lot.
Justin White I’m not sure what happened But thanks for the feedback Justin...the S&B particle separator is actually designed to reduce the amount of dust entering the airbox before it hits the air filter I never really thought of it as a snorkel I don’t live in an area with water... it’s desert environment but I’m not sure exactly what happened if it was at the dealership or during the build
@@47rhorvath I'd say the particle box and filter did it's job. The throttle boots are dirty showing dust and air coming in right at the connection, because the clean air passing the filter shows it only being dirty in those 2 spots at the throttle connection. A swirl effect of a vacuum hitting against constant air pressure in the dirtiest most dusty spot of the motor right in between four wheels. Could've been wiggled loose could've got missed during inspection or even the building process at honda. Atleast she will be fixed up for you.
@@Cronicncars I agree with your assessment, I wonder if the dealer may have loosened the boots for whatever reason during the installation process and didn't re-tighten? Non the less, this is an expensive lesson to lean for anyone who installs a particle separator which I believe is a great aftermarket mod, o0ne that I would consider. Again, I am happy that Honda is taking care of this.
Yep the lid was not Installed or clipped shut correctly
Not judging but I'm sure I'm going to get some crap over this. Watching your videos for a while. Your rambling on how it's a manufacturing problem. Constantly babbling on, and on ,without waiting for Honda to check their findings. Then at the end of your video Honda is going to replace your engine. So now you go ahead and posting a 16 + minutes of BASHING A COMPANY. Knowing in post production of the video, that you didn't need to put a bunch of negativity. I am a certified Macanic work on aircraft for 30 years. Looking at the air filter(clean no dust or dirt) and proximity of the dirt in both intakes. If you never opened the air box to verify the work done by the dealership, 1st thing comes to mind THERE WAS NO AIR FILTER IN THIS CAR. Not a manufacturing issue.
Hello !! Sorry to hear that ! Hope Honda takes take of it!!! I always tell people that the biggest hole in a motor is the air intake !!! That being said I always check the air intake on all motors!!!!! A air intake is like a vacuum sucking outside air especially if the vehicle is a off-road vehicle....!!! Hope they fix it!!!!🙏🙌
Just a helpful thing I do..I use silicone grease on the rubber seals in the airboxes to help make solid seal..use a just a small amont ....doe get dirty but that so good(trapping even more dirt) and is easy to clean off an next air filter change! This really looks like a failure installing the air filter correctly( possibly upside down) and make sure it was seated unless there is some warpage in the box not allowing filter to sit flat and in contact OR the lid wasnt attached all the way on correctly,,,,,.maybe there is a crack in the airbox lid??? One more thing...the air particle separator could be a possible cause...if it is restricting any airflow to the air intake then by physics and faster high speed driving the suction is going to continue to suck and pull air thru the path of least resistance...thus maybe pulling flow thru the seams of the airbox not protected by the filter even if filter is correctly seated! Just a possibility...
Thanks for the tip Steve
Was the gasket reinstalled on the air box lid? If not then that is where the diet is coming in.
Looks like the gaskets were not installed right or at all in the airbox
I had a similar but worse situation where the throttle body hose clamp vibrated loose the screw that holds the clamp.... Was at atv park an laid it on side not a hard lay over on passenger side got out of the machine had few people help set it up right . We let it set for 45min to an hour to let oil return to the crankcase . Went to start it an had a knock in the motor had no clue what had happened at the time . Started it again an locked up the engine .. screw got cought between cylinder an valve... So I got screwed
Sucks man I know for sure. I was Pissed.
Had to make a video about it. Sorry buddy, anyway thanks for the view and the comment
First time i see an air box with the cover on the clean side. Whoever design this air box is not the sharper pencil in the box.
You are correct
Honda stood tall...however, the dealership added a particle separator and the filter had been changed. Any of those actions could have resulted in improper alignment of the filter box cover. At the end of the day, Honda took care of an issue that may or may not have been their fault.
Bill, I'm glade they did...Sorry I sound upset with Honda in video, More upset with the situation a guess....HONDA makes great products, and I'm glade they are fixing the problem..
@@47rhorvath And I am happy for you...nothing is worse than having a problem that no one accepts responsibility for! Enjoy your Talon!
I understand why your upset...if this happened to my YXZ I’d loose my mind!
You know that's right!!!
Poor airbox design in my opinion. The air filter should be accessed from the dirty side. Under vacuum if that seal leaks the dirty air bypasses the filter completely
Exactly! That has got to be the dumbest air filter box design I have ever seen on anything!
The air filter wasn’t sealing! Whoever installed your filter is at fault! Honda will not do anything about this.
Phillip Smith
Maybe you should have watched the whole video....
Kyle Chrestman Hahahaha absolutely I was just thinking that. Honda Took entire responsibility and replace the entire engine at not cost . Was a scary times for this Honda Talon owner but they replaced the motor good
the dude did something to his bike being water or dust or even snow dust can make your bike run bad and he checked the air filter and didn't get it sealed back up I would put money on it
I didn't see a grease seal between the air cleaner and the box? Maybe the camera didn't pick it up.
Not sure
That’s awesome brother glad Honda is doing that another good thing to add to their already great reputation
Was fuel pressure checked? Also, most likely if the filter is clean it is not going into the airbox. They serviced the air filter n forgot to tighten the clamps that go onto the throttle body. It was sucking dirt for a while past the boots that connect to the throttle body causing cylinder wall damage. However, when it sucked in snow it became noticeable. Remember snow is water. Water mixed with fuel in the combustion chamber..it will run terrible. Just my thoughts. Also, pretty sure you cannot get an accurate compression reading due to the automatic decompression lever that is on the camshaft. You have to do a leak down test. just fyi.
titty sprinkles Thanks. Fuel pressure was checked and up to par. As for compression readings, not sure how the dealer obtained the information
Sorry for you trouble, at least Honda is taking care of you. I have a 2017 Polaris Razor that had the same exact problem. When I bought it new I paid $2,000 for an extended warranty. Along with that warranty I had to sign a waiver that I would only use Polaris brand air filters. Dirt got past the filter and caused $3,500 in damage to the motor. Polaris would not cover a penny of the repairs. They won't cover dirt ingestion. I asked them what's the point of signing that air filter waiver. They couldn't give me an answer. Good luck and keep up the videos.
Kieran Mann that’s horrible. Did your dealer try to appeal it or were they the ones denying the claim? My dealer recommended not buying the extended warranty and just working through any failed parts with them which gave me about a $2000 pot to spend if anything goes bad. The RZR turbos are pretty perfected since 2018 and have pretty reliable drivetrains, so not really worried. Working well for the first 1.5 yrs with 1300 miles. I hate buying warranties on anything but the Polaris warranty seems overpriced compared to other manufacturers.
Air filter checks are part of the pre ride check (yes ever ride) (EVERY RIDE) on a Polaris. If you don’t check it that’s your fault.
@@balzarini51 I do check mine every ride. It turns out the plenum upstream of the throttle bodies had a crack in the seam that allowed dirt to get in.
Hopefully honda doesnt know about that particle separator because whoever installed that is at fault. They didnt fasten the filter or lid properly.
Lol, it’s a Honda part number 😂😂
Glad they are fixing it for you
That sucks man! Thanks for the video. I'm beginning to look at SxS's and the Talon was a consideration. Hope Honda does the right thing. I think I'll stick with the RZR.
The crappy Honda intake sytem is the reason the "particle separator" was installed, and one of the many reasons I choose a '20 Gen 2 YXZ1000R over a Talon.
This is pretty bad coming from Honda. I had a Africa twin which I heard is the same engine in this machine and it was ultra reliable. As you pointed out, the weak leak is the airbox.
I had a polaris.900 and first servicec300 miles after first service it burn a quart of oil every 60 miles polaris said normal and would do nothing. I got rid of it . so crap happen
This is rediculous! video should be re titled I'm a lucky idiot that left the airbox open and Honda is amazing for still honoring the warranty!
That's pretty awesome of Honda to do!
I am surprised they stepped up with the aftermarket add to the air system. That's usually their out - any manufacturer that is given an reason to say - Sorry you altered the original design. Or simply say operator error. Not possible to so unless the operator didnt get the air box sealed correctly.
This may be the reason I buy a Honda! Cuz caca happens!
Fred Baca hhmmm That's not Fred Baca from Santa Fe is it? Bill's fan and all?
Ray, Even if something wasn’t sealed up from the factory during assembly, the dust in the intake should’ve been noticed when maintenance was performed by your dealership.
I agree, I don't care about pushing blame, just want it taken care of.
Ray Horvath Productions That’s understandable, but your video was aimed towards Honda and the Talon being unreliable. I’m very certain this was an error by your dealership that caused the damage and nothing to do with Honda.
@@gravesru What I was told by the dealership...."Error during assembly"
I'm not taking shots at Honda, if you saw the entire video I speak about how they are known for making GREAT products.....But things can happen when wrenches are turned at the dealership, or when put together during build...
Ray Horvath Productions I did watch the entire video and it appears you were frustrated with Honda or at least that’s how it comes across to me when I watch it. I did hear you express the reputation Honda has, but it also seemed you were blaming Honda for this issue. I’m glad someone stepped up to cover it because it isn’t your fault. This is why I don’t let anyone else work on my vehicles. They push them through and don’t have the time to double check things or care half as much as I do about my vehicle.
Honda Talon Turbo Owner I agree.. no one is going to take care of your vehicle like yourself. Let’s assume this happened to you.... and I know you are a very talented technician and mechanic.... Would Honda have covered A total engine loss in your situation or anyone else that has done work on their own machines? Or would they write it off stating that modifications have been done by someone other than an authorized dealership??....This is a question I’m insatiably curious about? Either way I appreciate and respect your feedback we still need to ride together sometime.
Sorry to here , hope they step up and fix it all, let us know what to look for to keep this from to happening to others.
Thanks man, they are...Whole engine is being replaced
It's a shame that your ride ended up with a damaged motor. I'm sure your one of the very few who's had this type of issue, or rather I hope as I just picked up a 2021 Talon 1000R about 5 days ago.
You have shown us nothing that indicates Honda is at fault .
Thanks for the feedback. I'm personally not saying it's Honda's Fault, I'm only saying what the dealership has told me up to this point. "The Engine is being replaced by Honda because the tubes from the air box into the throttle bodies were put together correctly during the build process." This is all the information I have been given up to this point. All work has been done at the dealership. I should have more specifics next week.
Glad you're being taking care of by the dealer. I own a pioneer 1k and since I purchased new, it's been back to the dealer 3 separate times due to their DCT transmission. The first 2 times the dealer basically took care of the repair bill but this last time it was under a recall. That said, seems Honda has always taken care of their customers. It has been frustrating b/c just like you said, I choose Honda due to their quality. Good luck
Thanks Andrew...
Why linger in the fast lane? Move right....
Did your dealer or Honda have any insight as to what allowed dust to get into the engine? Just bought an X4 Live -Valve and would like to investigate this if this is a more widespread problem. Glad Honda is taking care of it! Thanks!
I’ll have more information in a few days but from what I understand there was something to do with the way the rubber seals were crimped where they connect to the throttle bodies
@@47rhorvath great, thanks and please keep us updated!
Shit happens. That’s what warranty is for. You keep going on and on about Honda reliability, we’ll nothing is made perfect. And again, that’s what warranty is for.
Whoever installed the s&b is at fault,and no I haven't watched the other videos just saying
Honda didn’t cover my engine and I had the same problem as you and I’m also from las cruces and also took it to lcms.
Sounds like you lucked out with Honda covering the motor. The air box needs removing to check the valves. If the intake issue was not found on the services that required valve adjustment or air filter replacement, then it's more than likely the last person that removed the air box cover, caused the issue. The cover needs to seal well. If not, it will allow dirty air past the filter (mentioned). The only other part of the service that might cause the issue is connecting the engine vent hose or the filter drain. Not sure of your mileage (seem like at least 800 miles) but assembly at the factory is likely not an issue. It's more than likely a service related failure. Honda covering it, kinda means you lucked out unless they can give you a clear explanation to their mistake.
Thanks Max....I'm glade they did...Sorry I sound upset with Honda in video, More upset with the situation a guess....HONDA makes great products, and I'm glade they are fixing the problem..
Crazy! Up and down with that Talon.
What engine code? Mine don’t idle rough but is only idling at 200 rpm’s five or take, it stays steady and runs fine when I hit the throttle, after watching this I’m freaking out l, cause some how I got alittle dirt down in my throttle body same place ass your but it’s NOT NEAR as bad as yours, the code mine is saying is 102. Says (sticky throttle valve) I’m terrified to have engine failed like this I just bought it use 2 months ago. Like i said it runs smooth even at 200 rpm’s, seems to run fine what I hit the throttle. Plz get back with me!
I wish I could help you, it's been over 2 years and i don't remember what the code was. Sorry man.
How many miles on it at this point? Definitely a blessing the dealership is stepping up to get everything covered by Honda.
About 2,400
It cracks me up when I see the Air Filter in the Honda Talon as it looks almost identical to the air filters you'd find in a CR-V, Pilot, etc. The stock location that Honda put the intake on these cars is really stupid which is why your first air filter got so dirty so quickly. I'm willing to bet that Honda will be relocating and re-engineering the air intake in a future model soon because (IMHO) the flat filter has too much room for failure in seating it properly and getting sealed. I'm glad to hear Honda is replacing the engine on this however since this happened thousands of miles into usage that there most likely have been some human error involved too. In one of your previous videos, you removed the air filter while on the trail which isn't something I'd recommend unless you really have to and personally if I'm removing the air filter for any reason it's always going to get cleaned (or replaced depending on what you're using). Just like you should be going through and tightening all your bolts, etc on a regular basis I'd also make sure that your air system is secured on a regular basis, especially out west where we tend to have a lot more dust.
I appreciate the feedback I know which video are you referring to I did not remove it on the trail I just took it out there and shot my it had been removed at the dealership but I agree with your theory.
As you can see in my pic profile I'm a proud owner of a trx700xx. Leaning for a couple of months on a yxz ss se 2019+ used and I think I will go back to Yamaha! Had a blaster, banshee and kodiak that were very reliable.
Awesome
Hi Ray I was just wondering on your KRX if you experience a lot of dust coming up from those holes in the floor close to to the seats . I seen on deranged off road they made some comments on that. Also I was wondering on the cab heat and noise compared to your other units , I enjoy your videos and your honesty . I personally own a 2019 X2 Special Edition with the full cab system but I live in Newfoundland Canada lots of great riding areas up here take care my friend.
Corey Bridger Yes I do. Been trying to purchase the cab seal kit. They have been out of stock for while now. Heat does come through especially on the hot days, noise is not bad.
Ray Horvath Productions ok thanks for your reply!
Up in Canada the heat should be helpful during the winter
@@47rhorvath Yes it is on my X2 I have the full hard cab with the heater etc . I live right on the most eastern part of Canada in the Province of Newfoundland . Our summers are nice but very short for warm temps are concerned so for me the heat is ok , but on my machine if it is above 22 degrees Celsius it is too warm in the cab.
What’s the name of tires you got on your truck
Conner kumho tires
WoW!! I just bought a Honda Talon 1000 R on 3/7/2020. Got it for $17,300. But after my extended warranty and TTL and everything else they added on it came out to $28,000. That even after a $5,000 deposit.thanks for sharing your experience.
Great machine, my situation I’m sure is very rare
I’d say warranty and could be a oddity , like you said built by a man , might have had a bad day and missed something! But should be covered as long as there’s no owner caused issues!
Imaybe the the particle separator is restricting air and the engine has to suck in from somewhere.
But from where. And why? The air system is supposed to be air tight. Should just choke off the engine. No explanation
Not necessarily, in the RZR world it's common for if your air filter cannot pass enough air through quick enough that the intake track will start sucking in fine particles of dust where it can. Nothing is completely hermetically sealed against fine dust. If this is the case the finer dust will eventually push those little hairline openings even wider and allow a larger dust particles to come in. It seems like your intake track from the particle separator is large enough but I question if that particle separator is wide enough to really feed it all very well especially considering you have a windshield blocking in its path to air by way of cabin negative pressure.
Cj Cjay Got it. Makes sense The way you explained it.
The math doesn’t add up. There’s pretty much no way that NA engine could put consume the airflow that the S&B can flow. Hell a 2” pipe can flow 500 plus CFM and that engine can’t draw more than 120 CFM at 8000 rpm...
Or maybe just a bad seal at air box. a slight warp to it and filter wasn't sealing. I'm glad that Honda is replacing the motor but it would be really good to find out what caused it because whereas you're in a Dusty environment it seems it would be a real good idea to try to prevent it from happening again. For added safety I'd almost suggest getting some frog skin wrap to put at each of your intake joints so at least eliminate the possibility there and maybe a bit of Grease or oil on the rim of your filter and air box seal if it has one. could even have been like a twig or a bent over section of rubber on the Seal of the filter thats started it all. Oh the great unknowns
The same thing happens to present day RZR where users change out the OEM filter to a free flow aftermarket. All aftermarkets let the fine stuff pass and dust the engines. Will probably take time for Honda to figure out the filter media issue.
Even Honda Lawnmowers have the panel style air filter down low on the engine. My previous Australian made Victa lawnmover has the air filter high on the handle.
These type of side by sides should have a completely sealed roof mounted air filter.
Honda are loosing quality on their products with each update.
Dude,
So they are tearing it apart for diagnoses correct. Have they identified the root cause yet?
Yes, Induction air tube issue during assembly, I will have more specific details next week...
did you say you put 1400 miles on the old filter? also you put an aftermarket air system on it. honda is not going to take care of that
It has a stock air intake system the only thing that was installed by the dealership and purchased at the dealership was the S&B particle separator which works as a pre-filter. The dealership does all of the maintenance and work... if you’re familiar with the way the particle separator works, it’s installed before the air intake ever hits the factory airbox.It’s meant to reduce the amount of dirt that actually hits the filter area before it goes through. If you watch my previous videos it might give you a better understanding or explanation. If you watch the end of the video you will see where I indicated that Honda is replacing the entire engine.
Unrelated Question Ray: How do you like the X-Comp ATR tires?
Been Great. Awesome grip and perfect for the terrain I ride in with out worrying about flats
bad desighn for an offroad filtration system. to many leak points. nothing to do with the pre filter. obviously the lid wasn't put on correctly or the box was leaking some how on the clean side. this is why you need a donaldson or donaldson type that has positive engagement. the mavs and polaris are pretty much fullproof.the mav is like a Donaldson and the polaris could be run without the cover because its on the dirty side. if i hear better quality one more time im going to puke.
The yxz air box is also very well made.
@@thomasblais3612 i cant recall what they look like but i trust you. its not really that the others are good as much as the honda one is bad. lets for instance say everything on it is working as it should and you ride in a dusty environment and get your filter dirty. you go to change and there is so much surface area on the clean side around the filter your probly going to have to be an operation champion not to accidentally knock dirt off onto the clean side of the box. i would fill compelled to have to whipe it down every time you changed. correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it pulling away from the gasket around the element? i know it has screws to help hold it but doesn't it make more since to have the vacuum increase the sealing power rather than pull against.
After talking to Darin at LCMS, I got home and rechecked mine. Still perfect, but I now check before every ride.….Still pretty sure I want the particle sep, but again, will wait until what you hear from Honda
I agree, Particle Sep, did it's job great...Dirt got in through tubing directly connected to throttle bodies...Will get more details in a few days
So how did the dirt get past the filter??? What does the service mngr. say???
William Evans Directly at the point where the throttle bodies connect to the induction system. The 2nd video explains more
@@47rhorvath In the video you can see clean plastic next to dirt on that airbox on the TB side (in 2-3 spots from what I can see in the video with it resting on the front wheel) Note the filter side it is all clean. Seems to me the problem is that housing and the cover that goes with it isn't sealing around the TB tubes side of that part. Looks like it has clips attaching it to the other half of the housing. So either it wasn't sat right/clipped together well enough or is a design flaw with that airbox housing. When this is fixed an additional seal should be used (if its bad desgin) around that housing or a different airbox be used. You can test it by placing clay or something around that seal, clipping the housings together and taking it apart to see if it is indeed making a full seal. If it does then you know the last tech who had the airbox apart didn't have it fully seated. If it doesnt seal then you know its a desgin flaw and should look into the aftermarket for a new filter setup and let honda know of the issue directly (not the dealer.) Good luck.
hey man in located in Albuquerque looking to go ride in cruces
The Dona Ana Mountain range has tons of riding trails down here. You will really enjoy the different types of terrain
What’s with Honda having all these issues they’re Honda for gods sake
Saving Grace maybe because you’re deluded by your brand loyalty? Polaris, Can Am, Kawasaki, it doesn’t matter. They all make quality machines but can and do fail. Honda is not some messiah amongst other manufacturers, and I’m so tired of hearing this “iTs A hOndA iT cAnT dIe” shit. It’s nonsense.
Onyx Guard I don’t even own a Honda product that’s not brand loyalty. Everyone has their good ones but with Honda’s known quality control it just surprises me the amount of issues that are occurring
Once this gets fixed find a new dealer and have the whole machine gone over!
Same thing happen to me and the warranty didn’t cover it. It’s bullshit.
I have same problem they didn't want to fix it and it cost $10000 dollars to fix it
You said you went 1400 miles on the last filter change I don't care what you got you cannot ride it dust and dirt for 1400 miles without dust penetrating though make sure you let Honda know you went that long also you said you found no leeks well that leaves one thing
The air filter service interval is actually longer than that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but you may not understand completely how the induction system works even if the air filter was left on for 8000 miles under complete dusty conditions it should have been completely filthy, dirty and choked off while the filter was clean .......the dirt got in through the throttlebody necks as explained by my dealership...also there are many other people that have had the same exact issue. I no longer own this machine Honda purchased it back acknowledging it was and error during assembly......however everyone is entitled to their opinion thanks for the view and the comment.