The Place Where Radio Waves Are Banned!
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- čas přidán 21. 02. 2024
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![Seeing the Unseen [The Story of the Green Bank Telescope]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Wj4QWPp0DSE/mqdefault.jpg)
![Seeing the Unseen [The Story of the Green Bank Telescope]](/img/tr.png)
People who believe 5G = cancer, should live near radio telescopes.
Pinned out of respect
They don't even need to, they're exposed to the entire universe.
@@cottonfooYou've just terrified many tinfoil hatter's!
I'm sure they will be petitioning said Universe. Stating, "Not in our back yard!" Lol.
Lovely comment btw. 😂
The paradise for HAMs to live there.
@5mxg yeah... I was puzzled by that exception! Just imagine the low static (QRM) on you tranceiver...
I would imagine if I ran my rotary spark gap Tesla coil around there I`d be getting the fastest knock on the door in history......
And perhaps getting some scientists excited about receiving the next WOW signal :ø)
The frequencies on those are pretty high … they might not even detect it 😅
Don’t you even think about it lol. You do, I am not bailing out once the fcc starts kicking your ask me no questions. They can really do some real damage financially once they get started. Be warned.
the same design as styropyro with the angle grinder?
@@owenh5769No not quite, its uses a 2hp induction motor converted to run in sync with the line frequency so has a sync break rate of 400 breaks per second, the RSG has a linked phase controller so the motor phase angle can be adjusted on the fly for max output and super smooth operation.
My wife and I had a very nice visit there and tour of the radio telescope field where there are several very large dishes. The largest one has over 2 acres of reflecting surface. They made sure we did not activate any digital cameras when we approached the field. There is a very nice museum to visit there. One story they told was that the radio direction finding team had a lot of fun for several days when a group of squirrels, some which were tagged with radio wildlife tracking transmitters, ventured through the valley. They were on the chase through the woods and up in the hills for several days.
There are also stories of the Green Bank Telescope having been interfered with by transmissions from orbiting satellites, and with the advent of Starlink, the Telescope is going to start getting a lot more of such interference.
They were all fined 50$ per day ....😂😂😂
I live in the Quiet Zone, (about a third of the way from the Greenbank Observatory - sorry, don't want to be more specific) and interference is not a big issue unless you are within about ten miles, or if you are above the mid UHF band, or running more than a couple hundred watts UHF or higher.
Emergency Services (Police, Fire and EMS) use VHF/UHF at about 200 watts ERP analog and less with digital.
There are Ham Radio repeaters nearby on 2 meters, 220, and 440. HF is pretty much invisible to them as long as you have a clean signal and aren't running insane amounts of power.
I apologize for not having any more technical details, but I live far enough away that it's not a problem for me, and I haven't kept up.
FYI, Sugar Grove has been shut down for 10/15 years.
Apparently in the canteen and visitors cafe at Joderral bank, the microwave ovens are in secondary faraday screen boxes.
That makes sense, after they detected a short radio burst, that led some to believe that they detected evidence of intelligent life. It had to be a huge letdown once they realized that it only happened around lunchtime, and eventually they traced it back to the microwave.
@@buddyclem7328Another story from the same person. Was that they had some intermittent intreference which had them DFing around for days. Found it to be an early wireless mouse a contractor had brought in that was chattering away. The guy came back to his desk to find it upside down, and nailed to a piece of wood, with a 'polite' note.
I can confirm, the microwave in the accommodation canteen at Green Bank is also in a Faraday Cage. I was there in November last year.
Visited them in West Virginia, when they heard me and a friend were ham radio operators they gave us a “behind the scenes” tour!
Where hearing "QSL via the Bureau" during a QSO takes on a new meaning...
My Harley riding group visited Green Bank pre COVID. They wouldn't allow digital photos within a mile of the main dish. This thing is enormous! Maybe 600 feet tall and the dish is the size of football field. This is also one of the only places outside of an airport that I have seen a working pay phone in the last 20 years.
I was there in high school, and got to use some of their equipment that tracks down signals. One thing they had was a very expensive scanner. I picked up an old 49 MHz baby monitor and cordless phone and we estimated this was a good 40 miles from the observatory . They would have a field day with the newer more advanced baby monitors of the day today. Also, for the most part, everything was good old analogue.
Great place for a Short Wave Listener...
As long as your equipment does not introduce extra radiation and is thus properly isolated from everything
7:43
See also: The Australian Radio Quiet Zone WA. This radio quiet zone protects the Murchison Radio-astronomy Observatory and the SKA telescope. Just looking at the rules it seems to be stricter that the area in the USA, I see amateur and CB are not allowed in the WA quiet zone.
Our local repeater is actually located within the zone, but it was grandfathered I believe. Plus, being just outside of Lynchburg, VA it isn't too big a problem.
The sign that states diesel vehicles only in the thumb nail, is out of date, modern common rail diesel engines make quite a racket.
This is because the injector needs to crack so the ECU sends a crack spike of voltage to the injector that can reach near 100v of a short DC burst.
When we lived in West Virginia, we visited the NRO. Neat place. Glad you included the diesel engine requirement.
I wonder how they'd feel about turning up in an EV?
I wish he had mentioned that they had to be pre-2008 models, because ones without electronics don't generate interference.
@@peterking2794I wonder if it would be possible to shield an EV adequately to prevent interference.
@@peterking2794they are OK with visitors with EVs (they even have charging points). It's just in the working area close to the telescopes where it's diesel only.
@@buddyclem7328what's the context of pre '08? I'd be assuming that the issue with petrols is the sparkplugs not the electronics.
I went to snowshoe West Virginia last summer, which is just down the road from the radio astronomy zone. I went to the visitor center. On my way home. The locals told us that the Dollar General store was allowed to have a Wi-Fi network, for checkout purposes. They had to paint the building, black with a special coating to prevent radio signal leakage. If you look on Google maps and follow the road that is at the main gate south mile or so it’s that Dollar General.
there is one of these quiet zones in Australia too , in Western Australia the "ARQZWA" but it is in the middle of nowhere! :) Apparently there used to be one here in England around the Chilbolton Observatory near stockbridge in Hampshire, but I don't think it exists any more .. The HUGE Radio Telescope is still there though!
I wish I had even 2% of Ringway's expertise.
I think they still allow amateur radio and legal-unmodified CB on minimal power because they’re such a narrow bandwidth. But commercial signals are crazy wide, and license free data does some neat tricks too.
I worked with a local astronomy club in college to build a radio telescope and always heard them talking about the radio dead zone when they would go to conference in greenbank. I assumed it was a lot more secluded until I went skiing near there and realized as I was driving by the observatory that I wouldn't have cell service for the next week
Thaks for pointing out my retirement town!😂
Kind of like Fylingdales in UK to an extent. There are freq restrictions within about a 40km radius
Also, it's worth mentioning the coolness of the equipment they have there. The main telescope is 100 meters in diameter and moves frighteningly quick for such a large structure, it's the biggest steerable dish antenna in the world. They also have several other antennae there, some of them are pretty old and have an interesting 1950s industrial design to them.
Drop a few meshtastic nodes into zone 1
Very topical here today! Serious cellular outages.
So we didn’t have anything where I live in southern Colorado
Love seeing the old chevy pickups with antennas 🥰🥰🥰
I was down there to run the Greenbrier River Trail marathon and later their half. There isn't any cell service in the area. To contact my loved ones, I had to use the motel's landline to call them since they don't have their licenses. To access the motel internet, I had to connect it to the ethernet ports. When I took my parents down later to run the inaugural half, my mom was surprised with the radio deadness. Even NOAA stations were hard to get.
The hams do operate within the RFZ. I was listening to them when I was running in those events. I'm guessing they have their repeaters on very low.
Jodrell Bank staff say they know when someone switches a microwave oven on. It operates on a frequency of 408 MHz amongst others.
G4GHB.
I visited the site a few years back. It's really remote. You lose cell service long before you get there. There are no nearby interstate highways, so you have to travel a fair distance down country roads through mountainous areas to get there. The visitor's center is pretty nice, and they give bus tours, in a diesel bus of course. When the tour guide said that digital cameras were prohibited inside the fence line, there was an audible sigh from the tourists, except me, since I brought my old film camera. On the way out it was dark, and I almost hit a deer like 3 or 4 times on the twisty mountain roads, so if I ever go back, I plan to leave when there's enough daylight to reach the interstate or a town.
I've been to NRAO twice. The second time with my wife. We toured the museum and enjoyed the explanation of what they do there and how they use the radio telescopes. We also took a guided tour out to get within several hundred feet of the telescopes. Since I was aware that digital imaging was not allowed I took a film camera on the trip to get some nice photos next to the scopes. I also went back at night and took photos (with permission) of the largest one lit up. I had a QSO with an operator at Charlottesville during a Special Event. He told me if I got back down to Green Bank to tell them about our QSO, and they'd give me a more detailed tour.
I know the area well, havimg passed through it and visited in the periphial areas. the restrictions are greatly relaxed compared to my youth when virtually the entire zone was devoid of radio traffic period other than emergency services, there were signs on the highway warning that all radio transmitters must be turned off.
microwave ovens must be enclosed in shielded enclosures which the facility provides to those needimg them.
there is a ski resort in the oiter zones which uses low power arrays which downlink to wired transmission for its customers cell phones...
Looks like there's a local ham club that has them on speed dial for courtesy when they have events. No doubt QRP is highly encouraged.
Unless it's running on three-phase 4160 VAC, it is QRP...
I live in Staunton, Virginia. I don’t know about zone numbers but the map we have shows a red boundary and then a yellow. We are inside the yellow which means we can have radios and every thing but we can be asked at anytime to shut down. And yes the two big radio clubs here VARA and MARA had a direct contact with them for events.
I was there for vacation, is an amazing place to be. Film cameras are allow but no digital or cellphones.
My father in law lives close enough to the radio telescope to see it from his porch. Its a fascinating piece of equipment. And going for visits is a nice way to unplug from the world and recharge.
Ha, Diesel vehicles only. No coil packs on diesel. Granted, don't turn it off. The starter will interfere.
Absolutely love and respect this material.
Great coverage of the zone and the observatory.
haha As soon as you had shown the first station vehicles, I thought _"Not surprised they use old vehicles given how much RF sparkplug coils generate!"_
(modern vehicles now use one coil per cylinder, instead of 1 coil for the entire engine)
So, yup, your Diesel screen text made perfect sense! 😁
Also, that complex is in _Fallout 76_ 🤘
I managed to get my ass up on the dish (through much junglegym antics) in my power armor, back in Year 1 of launch. _(I assume it's still in the game, as I stopped playing due to poor internet speeds here at home)_
I would love to see a video discussing LoRa and privacy. Both private/encrypted coms and if LoRa gives away your location without the use of gps. Haven’t seen much discussion on this aspect, and it is important in a SHTF situation.
Many years ago our company tendered for computing equipment for Jodrell Bank radio telescope installation near Manchester. One of the big requirements was that the radio emmissions had to be very small. During a visit to site we were offered a cup of coffee in the staff common room and noticed a microwave cooker fully covered in em mesh shielding.
I used to work on the Network Rail fleet of test trains and one of my jobs was to test the ground penitrating radar system which was under development at the time. There were certain areas within the UK where the system was prohibited from use, one of which is Jodrell Bank radio telescope where there was a 10Km radius ban on the use of GPS.
Another great video! I grew up near there and it's great to see you do a video on it!
Thanks brother
I don't think there is any disputing the fact that _electromagnetic hypersensitivity_ is a load of old bollocks. 🐄
You’re absolutely right
I met one person who genuinely believed she'd got ill because of phone masts then miraculously got better. I think it exists but as a mental illness not physical and I know very well how mental illness can destroy you. It's still a bit battered shit crazy 😂
There is a NRQZ in Western Australia too
Saw this on Tom Scott’s YT a while back 👍
West Virginia resident here. Sugar Grove is now closed, but the Green Bank observatory is still very much in operation.
The old base is a damn opioid clinic😂
When WSVA-TV (Today's WHSV) in Harrisonburg, VA hit air in the 1950's ti ran only 8.3 KW (Yes, 8,300 watts video) ERP when it was really on channel 3. Despite this, it was viewable in some of the D.C. area even after WRC-4 went to its taller tower in the 1980's, This was in the era when channel 3 TV stations could run a max of 100 KW visual ERP. WHSV is today on channel 20 w.271KW ERP. On a different mountain a little further away from the NRQZ.
Regarding mobile QRM, I wonder what the NRAO thinks of the hash coming off the inverters of electric cars?
Thanks RM. A Very Interesting Video. Was Not aware of the Zone.
Hey this is in my neck of the woods, I also just recently visited Greenbank. That thing is really impressive and we even got to see it rotating
I remember visiting the V.L.A. in New Mexico. There were the turn off your radios/phones signs on the highway.
Super interesting, thank you for sharing this.
great work again
How can I send the mrs to the national quiet zone
Better off using Duck Tape...
Legend ⭐
Convince her she is hyper sensitive to radio signals
Share your casually misogynistic jokes with her - perhaps she'll just leave you of her own accord.
China is building the Qitai Radio Telescope (QTT), which will have a diameter of 110 m, larger than the Green Bank Telescope. They are also implementing a Radio Quiet Zone, which will be smaller (radius 30 km) than the one in the US.
I looked at the design of the QTT and there seems to be some similarities to the Eiffelsberg Telescope (100 m partially steerable) in Germany.
We have a similiar thing here in Germany. I'm a member of the fire brigade and one thing we learn during basic radio communication training is, which channels of our radio are blocked, when we are near a radio telecope
Even though the only Radio telescope is 400km away and it's really unlikeöy, that we'd ever get there😅
I thought that Green Bank was for sale a few years ago.
I think the navy site north of sugar grove was
I grew up just outside the zone. Greenbank is an awesome place to visit.
Great explained!
We've got a couple small No Radio Zones around our radio telescopes in Canada, like the Dominion Radio Astrophysical Observatory (DRAO) in Keremeos BC.
The mountains in the area are some of the best in the world. When I get my meshtastic gear I would want to try it out on the VA side. I guess that might be a problem though😊
Live in the zone, in areas where cell service is allowed its heavily power restricted making it suck (Even near the border of the zone) Internet is a challenge too, not even allowed to get Starlink. SKSRT offers fiber in the area but they have issues with coverage and go down all the time.
I thought ai knew a lot about the National Radio Quiet Zone, but now I know a lot more. Thanks!!
Took a drive there in the summer of 2022, was really interesting to see the satellite in person!
So it’s not a case of you can’t have Wi-Fi, you can’t have it transmitting unshielded, so if you sufficiently shield your building ie faraday cage, you can have what you like, just make sure it’s undetectable.
It is too bad there is not a similar radio quiet zone around the Dominion Radio Astronomy Observatory near Penticton, BC, Canada.
I'm intringued that West Virginia has state laws to help enforce the Quiet Zone, since everywhere else in U.S. law radio emissions are regulated solely by the Federal government. I wonder if there are other instances where state or local governments enforce FCC regs.
Dont know if it still happens but to tx on 70cms near raf waddington lincs always was banned.
I was thinking it would be great for those that think they suffer from RF.
I’m glad you said think mate
Better yet, they should force them to all live there in a big pen.
I made sure to put that@@RingwayManchester
I live about an hour away from that location. 👍
Yes, I remember this area from my beginnings with radio in 1960, and
Frank Drake with Project Ozma in the
sSETI back then, and his equation for
figuring possible alien populated worlds in the galaxy, and maybe further.
I have recently made trips from NH
to Florida on Interstate 81 near there
and being more on the edge of the
Zone had no probles with auto radio
or VHF-UHF repeaters in that area.
At least the pay phones seem to have
Touch tone dialing. It's like going back
to the 1980's or so RF wise.
One area limiting amateur radio on UHF Repeaters near Otis AFB on Cape
Cod, MA, because of Pave Paws early
missle detection, and I believe near such a site at Beale, AFB, CA too.
73 de Ray W2CH New Hampshire. 😊
In Western Australia, there's a much bigger zone which if I recall correctly spans more than 200km2, which is apparently a part of the Quiet Zone in the aforementioned state, that ispart of the country known as the Australian Radio Quiet Zone. Its radius covers as far as 260km away, which I would round out to 300km. The inner zone looks to be extremely protected, which prohibits any kind of RF transmission within 70km of the satellite transmitters at all times. It'd be interesting to see what they're finding out in such a remote location, in a remote part of the country.
Google for SKA to find out more.
Very interesting. I've never heard of any place like that of it's size in the continental US
Thanks 👍
Guiness world record for the largest RQZ goes to.......the Square kilometer array in South Africa with an area of 41 044 square miles! The sad part is.....there are a number of sota summits within the RQZ that will probably not get activated now.
Id like to know if Google street view is present there, isn't the location derived from logging WiFi networks, or have i confused some things !
Diesel cars dont have spark plugs which would show up on the radio
Yep said that
Sounds almost like the EE service in my area... 🤣
That big steerable dish certainly looks *_unique._*
so it would be bad to turn on a 15 watt FM TX there i wonder if you get any AM or short wave there.
Ww3 is coming what radio do you recommend?
Seeing those old vehicles answers my question about modern diesels being rammed with electronics.
Or EVs. Those things actually produce a very good amount of RFI- especially when charging.
Is it possible to establish fiber optic lines to the nrqz or would it violate regulations?
Not a whole lot of demand for fiber in West Virginia. Poor and low population
Honestly would be a great place to live if one wanted a 80’s-90’s tech lifestyle, with old computers talking to the outer world with dialup and whatnot.
Thanks!
Thank you!
Is this facility still used in 2024? or is it more of a tourist destination now?
shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! your radio waves are hurting my ears!
Hey my time zone! The BEST TIME ZONE. 😏 which next month I need to remember will change to -4 UTC for contests.
I have drive through this area several times.. the mountains make a bowl of sorts. The rules have relaxed a bit regarding Wi-Fi and other consumer communication systems. At least regarding the distance to the antenna.
I think abuse of radio systems is the main goal. With leaking fluorescent lights, microwaves, and other equipment that is misbehaving.
But how do they limit those infamous Italian QRP stations not interfering with reception :D
I'm surprised the small area isn't a prime candidate for FTTP internet service, since fiber is light based.
It would be interesting to see a study of cancer rates inside the zone. Are they lower?
I wouldn’t have thought so because don’t forget the whole 5g and wifi cancer link is a ridiculous, nonsense bit of rubbish made up by loons
I drove there once and didn't turn off my cell phone until I got to the telescope just to make sure the people there got a good dose of chemo.
It is also prohibited by the FCC to even use amateur radio equipment near those big radio telescopes in order for scientific research to be conducted. It’s in part 97 of the FCC rules that if you want to operate there, permission must be granted before you can even squeeze the microphone key. I am a general class operator and I have done enough studying on the subject.
The Green Bank NRAO is a great site to visit. It has been several years since I was there, pre-COVID. At that time it was possible to pre register for a laboratory tour. It was well worth going to the effort to be vetted for the tour because you get to see how the cryogenic detector electronics are able to interface with the room temperature exterior environment. You can speak with scientists and engineers who make the specialized equipment. The tour personnel were good at keeping the technical level within reach of the average person.
The current main telescope at Green Bank is a replacement of the original which had a catastrophic collapse. The current telescope is fully steerable and the hundreds of panels on the reflector surface are individually adjustable with motor drive for optimizing the focus. The structure is a marvelous engineering example.
The NRAO funding was put into question several years ago during the Trump administration. Fortunately the value of the institution was eventually understood and the future looks more stable. The collapse of the Arecibo telescope and the opening of the large new radio telescope in China probably helped prove the importance of the NRAO.
Ive driven through that area many times.
Awesome
I live around moorefield and only until like 3 years ago i found out about the telescope and Radio is normal here there is Amateur radio clubs and im getting in to Amateur radio too and i see nothing probably because Moorefield is at the edge of the zone
It's a lovely place to visit.
As far as digital cameras go, I wonder if you could fabricate a _Faraday cage_ that would block all electromagnetic emissions?
It's the only place where the voices in my head stop.
Let’s just say that I’m glad I don’t live in any of those zones, because I rely a lot on technology. Because, well, I am completely blind, and that will not be a good place for me to live. I know what a payphone is, but I had to look back on what that was. Believe it or not, I know what a landline phone is, only because one of our relatives still has one.
There are more astronomers than telescopes. To use a telescope like that, they have to put together a plan and submit it and hope they get approved. An aberrant signal just might ruin a grad student's night. 😢
(Edit)
Wow, I didn't know the rules were like that. I dunno if I could live without my fancy Internet. 😮
Radio amateurs are not allowed to use 431 MHz to 432 MHz within 100 km radius of Charing Cross. I knew we had restrictions but wasn't sure so I looked it up.
Does anybody know why? I believe it's the MoD who says we can't use it.
G4GHB.
czcams.com/video/cALBvqOBSSA/video.htmlsi=zSA6g0fD8h1nz0Ry
See here
Okay, I just watched it, thanks.
G4GHB.