You surely have to be joking? You are impressed with his lies? And you do appreciate that it's now going to costs somewhere in the the order of $1Billion more just to set this up? That's before they fix one leak. It's a rort, but there's none so blind as those that will not see.
I guess you would have to ask yourself if Māori or the Crown would both agree to such a treaty? There was an estimated 100,000 Māori to only 10,000 Pākehā when Te Tiriti o Waitangi was negotiated and signed. Do you really think Māori signed away their sovereignty to a, at the time, 10% minority? Learn your history Joseph.
Co-governance is not about "all" of the people of New Zealand. This is in the original Treaty of Waitangi. No! Its now all about Maori. What about the immigrants to NZ over the ensuing years. The Chinese, Indians, the Dutch, the Samoans etc since 1840, These are now all of the people of New Zealand. We are all New Zealanders are we not? No ethnicity mentioned. That is called democracy. The treaty used the phase New Zealanders being protected under the crown. With "equal rights" for goodness sake. Someone has interpreted the Treaty. "Special" rights do not exist for Maori. Who changed the Treaty!! This minister talks about inequity among Maori across New Zealand. That was in part the reason monies were dished out to Maori to cover grievances in these areas. We are paying out again for all this. How much more will we give them...Sovereignty for the whole of New Zealand with the Maori King as head?? Well what has changed. Maori activists that's what! Labour and all non democratic entities have to go. Boy. I cant emphasizes that enough.
So you get special status including rights to issue binding orders over water entities if you're an Iwi elite Maori insider. Average Maori WON'T benefit from co-governance. This is tribal governance. Disgusting.
@Shaun Templey You can identify as Part-Maori as much as you like, but don't think you can make me less than you. You can think you're entitled to more than other citizens because of history, but you don't. The actual fact is you and I are both humans, no more or less and we are both NZ citizens, no more or less. I work hard for what I have and don't owe you anything. Especially not because of a part of your ancestry. NZ is being made an Apartheid state with a minority claiming superiority. We both have seen where that ends. NZ is a first world democracy and we are all picking the fruits from that, don't undermine it with Separatism/Apartheid.
@Robin Tamihere Who's leaving? So you think because my whakapapa comes through SA, as evident in my name, I somehow don't understand democracy? To the contrary, Apartheid is one of the reasons I stand here. I stand proud and I will call anyone out for racism/separatism/Apartheid
The treaty was in 1840 ! different world, life & life choice was totally different to today.Maori was a collection of mostly warring tribes ruled by tribalism ,slavery,superstition, disease ,illiteracy primitive agriculture& living! Western developed ideas& goods offered wonderful possibilities for a hugely better life MAORI SOCIETY HAD SUFFERED TERRIBLY THROUGH the40 years musket wars (no european involved) The treaty ended this racial genocide! Today is a different world..
very very evil, NZ is becoming a apartied state, and this policy will not save money, it just simply will not, adding another level of bueracracy, and that is expensive. He has also taken assets off council at a 10% price, assets that have been paid for over generations. His interpretation of the Treaty is not the one which has given us a peaceful nation for 180 years
Somehow part Maori today think that the Treaty is all about them and giving their Maori part and advantage. They should wake up if they think the Crown, with citizens already here, was pandering to fragmented Maori tribes with clubs and spears
You're really hung up on the "part Māori" thing, ay. (Racist dog whistle if ever I heard one.) I realise you're super-unlikely to inform yourself about the history of colonialism in Aotearoa, but at least accept the fact that if someone is Māori, whether they're 1/16, 1/32, 1/512, 1/10,000, they are 100% tangata whenua and as such have special rights and privileges afforded to them by the crown as part of the treaty IT SIGNED. If you feel lessened by that , it's on you, but be well assured that the crown has not often, if ever, actually lived up to its obligations to Maori under the treaty.
@Nathan Garthwaite Why's "Part-Maori" getting to you? Maybe because the "other part" of Part-Maori is Pakeha and the Maori claim is obviously not from anywhere but a place of greed. Are you keen being discriminatory against whatever percentage of yourself just because of dreams of entitlement? So no, I don't feel lessoned, I feel pity to people prepared to do that to themselves and part of their own family. BTW the "dog whistle" comment is so woke.
You are dreaming if you think this will save Rates - if you include "Water" in the latter? It's a con and even the Govt. are now saying there won't be the same economies of scale under this revision. Even under their original scenario the savings were a lie, and after 30 years the accrued debt was still outstanding. (And when has this Labour Govt delivered on time and on budget on anything? (Crime, Housing, Health, Education, Cost of Living - and you believe them on this?) But putting that 'saving' delusion to one side, "democracy" should always win out.
It's a smoke screen for another Asset Grab !! Those without assets stand to gain while asset owners will be the Biggest Losers. They are trying to sell you the concept of Legalised THEFT by invoking ridiculous historical references & "reasons". It's an Orwellian nightmare in the making. Why the young & brightest are leaving Loony Land (Paradise Lost) in droves, never to return. How audacious to inflict this at the expense of 94% of the population. If it's such a great "solution" & not another Giant Ponzi scheme, we dare them to hold a REFERENDUM - it's only FAIR & JUST to those who've been paying RATE$$ & more all their lives !
@@utubermax I clearly wasn’t clear, I wasn’t suggesting it will save rates, I was inferring if I had to choose between higher or lower rates, I’d go for higher rates if it preserves our democracy. So…we are in agreement.
@@stephenbrown6476 Yes, I gathered we were, but there is this delusion out there that this scheme will save ratepayers money. As I said, if you include water in the latter (rates), we will all end up paying a lot more, and the Te Mana O Te Wai Statements give certain 'part' Maori 100% control - there is no co-governance about it. It's a rort, plain and simple and totally undemocratic.
Why on earth was Labour not being this clear and upfront about the issues involved when Mahuta and Jacinda where leading the charge on 3 Waters …. I’d have to say for all Jacinda is revered as a “communicator” she just never fronted like this guy is. Instead we had years of radio silence on the issues …. Unbelievable….
I don’t think Jacinda thought people believed this passionately about water infrastructure. And tbh I still don’t think they do, they just love race baiting
@Jazza I rather think that people see through this, thanks to people only now being told what's actually cooking. No thanks to the government sponsored media or Labour. I actually also blame National (supposedly the opposition
I, as rate rate payer will gladly suffer the increase rather than another failed labour project. We proudly protested aparthied when it to ours shores, now we welcome segregation in the name of progress. I fear the slim edge has long passed us by.
I'm Maori and one person one vote should remain the core. the treaty was made many many years ago when our population was fuckinh tiny. Its like forcing the maori electorate. there is no one good to vote for.
What a load of rubbish. The treaty does not state that Maori have special rights over our water. It states we are all eligible to have the use of water as equals. The treaty has been put in place for Maori to part of the commonwealth as we all are not to have governance undemocratically where they cannot be accountable. Every one has the ability to be voted on to councils regardless of race. Jackie Manapouri
The issue is not only the undermining of democracy but, even worse, it splits the country along racial lines, Part Maori on the "special rights" side (as was Apartheid) and the rest. That Treaty, which allowed Maori to become British subjects, is suddenly all about Part Maori first. The Treaty definitely doesn't allow for Part Maori to be first-rated citizens and the rest second-rate.
@Chris Whata The British wouldn't have signed a Treaty allowing Maori to become subjects And be allowed more rights than the Brits themselves. Who would have? It's now "read" this way because of colonialism suddenly becoming something negative. All just nonsense. And then the new thing is Part Maori are "over represented" in prison so Pakeha must be doing something wrong...
You do understand, legally, any non Māori living in Aotearoa whether born here or an immigrant lives here due to the acceptance and ruling agreed to in Te Tiriti o Waitangi, the legal founding document of this country agreed to by both Māori and the British Crown 1840.
@DIYGURU sounds as though you accept there's two parties to the Treaty, not only Maori. Then you must see that "the Crown" wouldn't have drawn up a Treaty only to the benefit of Maori. If that was the case, you could burn the Treaty because it will not stand in a modern world. Don't fool yourself, the Crown wasn't begging at the table. It was being diplomatic compared to how the rest of the empire came to be
@@olsaffa7679 The British were desperate, they were fighting hostile colonial takeovers in South Africa, India and many other regions across the globe. The British didn't have the soldiers available to take on Māori. Why do you think NZ is the only country in the Commonwealth that was founded by a legal agreement between the indigenous people and the British Crown rather than by war? You don't have to like it but that's NZ's founding document and no matter what you reckon it should be, you can't change it, you can only dishonour it, if you choose.
The treaty never gave maori special rights. They are British subjects and have the same righs not special rights. A load of crap from the left wing labour party. This is an absolute joke.
If you listened he said our founding document is the Treaty of Waitangi consented to by Maori and signed by the British colonizers (who then went ahead and stole Maori land and resources)
@Joanne Long Oh really? Tell me how. I went to school and had to study to pass exams (I know there's not much nowadays). I worked hard at earning a Dollar and raising a family. Harder and got a degree while working 5 days a week. Got no handouts. But then to the woke I'm privileged because of my magic skin
The strangest thing is this Tangata whenua nonsense. Somehow part Maori today think they are entitled to more than other citizens because a part of their ancestors arrived in NZ before those of others. Does the moon belong to the USA because Armstrong and the moon landing? Just as little. And now I keep hearing that "(part) Maori are over represented in prison, and Pakeha is to blame... Then white Kiwis are, even here in these comments, referred to as "colonizers". As though colonization is something that white people today has to be ashamed of and somehow owe these Part Maori for. All Kiwis should be Kiwis first, not (part) Maori or Pakeha. And colonization was about conquering and the old Maori loved warring themselves
Do a quick search online for te tiriti o waitangi and be sure to read the English and Maori version as a primer on what right Maori were promised. Then you could have a look for academic work on interpretations and implementations of te tiriti to get a better picture of its historical and practical application
@@j6077xxd you could burn it now, but it won't do any good. It's already out there in the world making change happen. It's far better to try to understand it, to participate with Māori in interpreting it and finding mutually beneficial outcomes for the principles it codifies. Te Tiriti o Waitangi isn't a threat, it's a promise of a better Aotearoa for all New Zealanders.
@@changing_thoughts80 I've read both versions. Academic interpretations? Shall I just interpret it anyway I like too? Can you name one of these special rights, that's the question.
Perhaps you haven't heard the saying don't count your chickens until they have hatched.Have you taken the time to check Nationals economic package,I have a kitchen strainer with less holes.
Not even. Both are undemocratic and should be scrapped. All they'll achieve is extra costs and Apartheid, where a minority claims disproportionate power. It would have been unconstitutional if NZ had one.
@NA you do know that people without NZ citizenship vote? There's scores of people in NZ with passports to other countries, not being citizens in NZ, who as soon as there's a crisis or war, will pull out those passports and drop NZ like a hot potato. I think the price of citizenship (think it's something like $2000 per person) is too much for those who want to become Kiwis. I'd love to see the numbers of people only being permanent residents in NZ. Permanent residency holders vote.
@@olsaffa7679 ,apartheid IS a crime against humanity! For far too long, politicians have been promoting their braindead 'biculturalism' nonsense! Who gives a monkey's about anyone's ethnicity? I certainly DO NOT! The people of New Zealand deserve better than politicians committing treason against BOTH the people AND His Majesty the King! The concept of 'co-governance' is so dumb - as the politicians want New Zealand to go down the dangerous road towards civil war!
There is no "treaty obligation" that requires co-governance. In fact, if we are going to read "obligations" (that don't exist) into the Treaty, then I wonder what are the Maori obligations under the Treaty. It seems to me that Maori get to complain endlessly, while everyone else has an obligation to give in to their demands.
Read it before you say that. Because it states it in 2 articles. Article 2 states that Maori have full control of their resources, language, taonga, and the Monarch has the responsibility to protect those rights. Article 3 states that Maori on top of article 2 gives Maori rights as subjects of the monarchy equal to those coming here to live. Which means, they have a say at the decision making table.
just an fyi , this is from the archive of nz; The second The Queen of England agrees to protect the chiefs, the subtribes and all the people of New Zealand in the unqualified exercise of their chieftainship over their lands, villages and all their treasures. But on the other hand the Chiefs of the Confederation and all the Chiefs will sell land to the Queen at a price agreed to by the person owning it and by the person buying it (the latter being) appointed by the Queen as her purchase agent.
First how can you trust labor. Jacinda never talked about this and only when it came out then there has been a back flip or this is good for NZ. How is just giving seats to maori who havent been elected good for all New Zealanders. Maori will want something from this and of course it will be money. Who will pay for this,all Kiwis except Maori
If it is about Maori water rights entitlement as per the Treaty, are Maori also paying for the proportional water resource infrastructure, or does entitlement excludes all liability in the case of Maori?
The Treaty promised equal rights and duties for all citizens, Maori and non-Maori. It did NOT talk about partnership or additional rights for those with whakapapa Maori. How can it possibly save ratepayers money, when councils who have good systems are now going to help pay for council areas that haven't. Just so much BS. and PS, why would National want to "square a circle"? 😂
Hello, article 2 don’t skip over it please and it doesn’t say “Māori and non Māori” it says Māori have the same rights and privileges as British subjects. Get it right
@@michellenicholls9039 Well Michelle, if you want to get it right - that's not what it says and I think you're confusing it with Article the Third but, by all means, tell us what you think Article the Second actually says and what version are you referring to?
@@utubermax well ya racist.. yes I’m talking about the authoritative version not the fraudulent English version that Mr Hobson made up. No matter which version you talk about article 2 Māori have full sovereignty over their villages, land, and treasures, in the English version Māori keep possessions of land, forest, and fisheries. So why don’t you stfu and go read the Treaty for your damn self you lazy goofball.
He lies, the whole water thing has never been tested in a court of law. It has only been tested by treaty obligations, two totally different things. McNutty should go back to cutting scrub in Pongaroa!!
This is what Australia might be experiencing. So it probably time to become informed about what the Voice to Parliament might really be like. If you are wondering about the fine print of the Voice and what will happen after the referendum - I have just been reading the UN General Assembly on the rights of Indigenous people. There are numerous chapters, but it essentially says that Indigenous people have the right for self determination. This is interesting, because when Gough Whitlam started campaigning for aboriginal rights, that was his main goal and various Labour governments have continued in this vein. Now, Gough is Albanese’s hero and he wants to emulate Gough and live up to Gough’s expectations or even go one better and deliver Gough’s goal and deliver the UN General Assembly goals. This also fits with the goals of the 1982 National Aboriginal Conference, where a draft Makaratta detailed requirements for self determination or Aboriginal Sovereignty. There are some pretty scary demands in this Draft (eg tax relief for 195 years, payment of 5% of GDP for 195 years etc- research it for yourself). Aboriginal Sovereignty was also the main driver at the Canberra Tent Embassy. Articles from this Makaratta appear also to be included in the Uluṟu Statement from the Heart. Marcia Langton and Patrick Dodson would be most aware of the 1982 Makaratta. And the kicker - 2022 an expression of interest was released by Penny Wong for an Aboriginal Ambassador to “lead indigenous perspectives experiences and interests into foreign policy and First Nations trade and investment” - I expect because the Voice has further un-mentioned goals. So, when Albanese says “trust us”, it will all be worked out after the referendum. Just like his pre-election promises - that has worked out too well. So why doesn’t the government want to give out further details on the Voice? In absence of any detail from the government, it can only be concluded that Aboriginal self determination or Aboriginal Sovereignty is the clear driver behind the Voice and these details are what is being kept from the Australian people. So a No vote would be appropriate.
The costs are because of supposed "treaty obligations" and Liebor's insistence in 50% appointed boards - all unnecessary. Additionally the cost of globally employed consultants (from India, UK, Europe, USA) is astronomical - all being put up in central Auckland and Wellington hotels at taxpayer expense...the process if allowed to continue will bankrupt New Zealand before it even starts in 2026
I guess if New Zealand voters research all this and bypass the hype and bias ideologies then we will see what they really think of all this at the next election.
@Robin Tamihere There is nothing in any of the three Treaty Articles that suggests that Māori should have any special right above other New Zealanders. The Treaty itself guarantees that “all the ordinary people of New Zealand ... have the same rights and duties of citizenship...”. The Treaty does not confer greater privileges on Māori than the Government owes to other New Zealanders. All New Zealanders have a basic human right that they are treated equally under the law and with equal political worth - one person, one vote. The book “Only one sun in the sky” is a must read before any treaty discussion. As Dame Anne Salmond wrote, “it is the 1987 neo-liberal rewriting of the Treaty of Waitangi as a ‘partnership between races’ that lies at the heart of current difficulties in reconciling Te Tiriti with democratic principles, not the original text.”
I just can't see why the Govt appoint a Minister to control water services and their sole role is to work with Council CEOs to ensure water services are up to scratch. Govt could supply funding controls and ensure councils spend wisely. Why all this extra bloated bureaucracy? Why create all this racial division? Why not let water services experts do what they need to do? Why make this bigger than Ben Hur when it doesn't need to be?
Because Councils pay higher interest on $ borrowed and ability to borrow funds limited due to Council credit ratings. The AA+ credit rating the govt has allows them to own the risk and borrow the billions needed and at a far lower rate. The size of each govt owned entity determines the interest rate hence a national company would have been the biggest saving, the 4 proposed entities were calculated to service 1 million+ people whereas the 10 entities, I guess, represent groups of 500,000 to about (guess) 1.7m in Auckland/Northland hence making the cost of servicing the loan higher than the 4 body model. That's why they have kept the option of entities merging available to save ratepayers more money. Costs will differ in different groups.
so labor change the name and thinks its different, reminds me of the two guys walking down the rd,who stop look down and say, if it looks like shit, smells like shit, it is more than likely, shit. labor needs to learn the history and how to read, interjecting things that aren't there is just them trying to change the true history, the country can see right through them. liars and cheats. learn the history and reasons behind it , Maori asked for the treaty and got what they asked for, no where is co governance mentioned in the treaty, it does how ever say they can look after all their tribal matters, but if you looks at it tribes have now broken up into individual iwis, which is a choice of Maoris own making, as said they asked, they received , any modern claims are null in void.
Really disappointed that our democracy has come to this. Even this guy acknowledged it was an undemocratic proposal. There are so many other elegant funding choices without creating a more, always inefficient, bureaucracy. We wonder who is really pushing this crazy proposal.
@@j6077xxdwhat he's saying about co-governance isn't even in the treaty. As far as I understand, it's from a decision by the Waitangi tribunal. The treaty is very clear that Maori people will have the same rights and responsibilities as British subjects. So, we should all have an equal right to an equal vote.
The majority of New Zealanders say NO to Co Governance... Maori is included in this number. We were the first democratic country in the world and part of that is the treaty agreement that calls on us to be one equal people... one vote for all... your ethnic background and colour of your skin does not come into it. Labour is determined to totally divide us as a nation with this policy and all their misinformation they spout and expect us to believe without question. You have to go Labour because you do not accept that New Zealanders are proud to be a democracy and demand that all its citizens have equal rights and equal voting power..
@N and so? Do you think I, because I have no Maori blood, should pay for someone with some percentage Maori blood, for things I had nothing to do with or benefitted from? I worked for what I have and owe nobody anything, especially on the basis of racism and Apartheid.
why let the least competent government in decades railroad one of the most significant reforms in recent history with only months left in office. Lets' have the next government review it first. As the minister mentioned; governments successively honor their legal requirements.
Congrats to Jack Tame for asking many of the contraversial questions that Cabinet Ministers have consistently refused to answer so far. In his next interview perhaps he would raise the issue of Coastal and Geothermal Waters that have apparently been quietly added to the scope of the proposed enforced legislation.
The Queen of England signed the co-governance agreement with the Maori Queen on the Waikato River in 2010 . pretty good modern precedent for the legal standing of the treaty. And you can't deny Auckland has reaped the benefits by having water security with the pipeline from the Waikato, There were no co-governance issues during the drought. And Jack when you get told there is a treaty and obligations within law that are undemocratic there is really no need to keep on the one person one vote gotcha.
Māori ‘s Flags should hoist all over the world NZ embassy I have mentioned to Australian indigenous peoples same Canada & USA as well That’s their identity
Can he please explain section 3.4(4) of the Governments national policy statement for fresh water management 2020 (updated this year) and how he sees that impacting non Maori.
Maori seats are still one person one vote. Cogovernance is not. As to the Treaty in its 1840 context it was an exchange of subjection in return for protection, by which Maori and Pakeha became equally subjects UNDER the crown-. Today that translates to voters in equal electing the Crown- one person, one vote. The Treaty did NOT give Maori parity with the Crown. In return for all hapu recognising that the government of the Queen applied over all of their lands as a singular arch authority, the Crown guaranteed the full ownership and administration- tino rangatiratanga- of the respective lands of each hapu, that is of land retained in native title. Land sold to the Crown became Crown land under Crown ownership and authority. Tino Rangatiratanga is indivisibly linked to native title, and is NOT an extraterritorial authority. Period. It is only by dishonouring the treaty - te reo text- to mean something it never did,, that this whole fallacy of cogovernance has been created,.Which is ironic, when Maori have repeatedly asked that the Treaty be honoured. This perversion of that ancestral covenant is a modern shame.
History books say otherwise. Maori were here hundreds of years before you came along colonizer and will be here hundreds of years after. Just waiting on all that stolen Maori land and resources to be returned, it'll happen soon :)
@@n8zdagreat maori came here in the 13th C. All that was here when the settlers arrived were some independant tribes, settlers made communities and eventually a central government, what did maori do except fight each other and eat them and still a stone age culture. Plenty of evidence to show they were not the first come and they ceded soverignty to the English crown and land was bought, mostly. So there was no colonisation,
@@olsaffa7679 Speaking of supremacy hows all that stolen Maori land and resources going conilonzer? Given all that stolen Maori land back yet interloper?
@N Are you even from New Zealand or are you one of those people who leave NZ off the map because you don't know where it is? Have you heard what's been happening via the tribunal and land? Wikipedia it. Land claims are being sorted. Land taken, restored but not land bought. BTW calling me a colonizer doesn't upset me, mate. 1) it's wrong because I'm not THAT old - nobody could be and 2) colonization is just another way of saying conquered. All peoples warred and the real Maories (non left) loved it. They even had some big BBQ's after. Stop being a racist. If you were a Kiwi, I would have told you to first be a Kiwi and then whatever.
Wierd that he knows the tararuas district rate payers and goosed and many other councils saddled with enormous debt trying to keep up with growth and infrastructure requing more investment. But not offer government money to step in and help fund strategic infrastructure that would be owned by the councils
Woah interesting chat! How do we justify saving inflationary fiat in exchange for water? What? Yes we need to agree upon weights and measures for settlements...when's the air tax for fiat already demonstrated human warrants of fitness using QR codes... what's next?
Jack please ask the following: did any members of the labor government meet with the Chinese government police from Hong Kong. The nz police were dealing with a country who beat up and killed it people support Russia with two million wega people wrongfully detained. Theese Chinese police were giving advice on how to beat up New Zealanders while also showing them sensitive areas of police communications. Time for the police commissioner to be fired. Down the road for ken and barbie rather than selling important information to the Chinese as a spy as there has been many in nz from china. We just opened the book for them because ken and now barbie are idiots. Whats the point in having a secret service if Ken is going to do that short of s... my guess is Jacinder Meet with rhem also. This information needs to be found out as most new Zealanders would not want china giving advice on policing. Unless we want anthor solmans islands.
@Grace Good I "nicked" nobody's land and worked and is working hard for what I have put together. You might be a proponent of "white guilt", but I don't think anybody is
Really don't understand a lot of fear towards co-governance in this comment section, it is a-democratic, MMP itself is not the pure idea of 1 person 1 vote democracy, securing an electorate seat below 5% allows party vote percentage representation etc. When Maori are disproportionately in poverty, when their communities have disproportionately unequal access to healthy water, the only way to go about changing that is to give those groups agency on an executive level. I think the same could be said about the dichotomy between the working and wealthy in this country. A large chunk of this countries wealth sits in land value, where from the signing of the treaty land has been systematically stripped away from Maori, that has happened, there are consequences to that, efficiently and effectively bringing water infrastructure to communities without, disproportionately maori, requires agency and input from those groups as does anything.
I'm Australian, Do any Maori in the comments find this co governance helping in any way ? ,I'm just asking because I'm trying to decide on 'The Voice' referendum here in Australia ?
Yeah. Most people would respond a lot better if they weren't being hounded by gotcha journalists cutting them off every three seconds. Labour is down with the Government, so they always get the kid gloves. Tame should be grilling this guy on Te Mana o Te Wai statements. But nothing.
@@Newscannet I think "Do you accept this model is not strictly a one person one vote model?" and "Is doing 10 entities to get mayors on board when it will cost rate payers more than 4 entities?" (paraphrasing on that last one) are pretty tough questions, Kieran just happened to have better answers than say David Seymour when Jack asked him about ACT's previous climate change denialist statements and he was way less agro about the questions being asked than Wayne Brown
Excellent work Kieran and Labour, Treaty being respected as with National under John Key and Finlayson for decades. As an Irish immigrant you will be getting my vote!
For God's sake don't waste your vote on these wokesters, you'll be poorer and bereft of any democratic rights before you know it, they're socialists, it's Marxism and not at all good for a healthy society.
Really impressed by the answers that Kieran the Local Government Minister was giving and the manner in which he gave them. Really knew his stuff
Very good answers
You surely have to be joking? You are impressed with his lies? And you do appreciate that it's now going to costs somewhere in the the order of $1Billion more just to set this up? That's before they fix one leak. It's a rort, but there's none so blind as those that will not see.
Kieran is upfront no beating around the bush, I’ve always been impressed by this guy👍🏿
What if the treaty had sanctioned slavery or not permitted women to vote. Would we still need to honour it? Its 2023. NZ should be a democracy.
NZ is a democracy, so I am not sure what your point is?
We wouldn’t of honoured that obviously lol.
I guess you would have to ask yourself if Māori or the Crown would both agree to such a treaty? There was an estimated 100,000 Māori to only 10,000 Pākehā when Te Tiriti o Waitangi was negotiated and signed. Do you really think Māori signed away their sovereignty to a, at the time, 10% minority? Learn your history Joseph.
But it didn't. You can't even adhere to what it did say let alone any other hypothetical argument.
@DIYGURU and I thought you realized that your view on the British Empire is off
Co-governance is not about "all" of the people of New Zealand. This is in the original Treaty of Waitangi. No! Its now all about Maori. What about the immigrants to NZ over the ensuing years. The Chinese, Indians, the Dutch, the Samoans etc since 1840, These are now all of the people of New Zealand. We are all New Zealanders are we not? No ethnicity mentioned. That is called democracy. The treaty used the phase New Zealanders being protected under the crown. With "equal rights" for goodness sake. Someone has interpreted the Treaty. "Special" rights do not exist for Maori. Who changed the Treaty!!
This minister talks about inequity among Maori across New Zealand. That was in part the reason monies were dished out to Maori to cover grievances in these areas. We are paying out again for all this. How much more will we give them...Sovereignty for the whole of New Zealand with the Maori King as head??
Well what has changed. Maori activists that's what! Labour and all non democratic entities have to go. Boy. I cant emphasizes that enough.
So you get special status including rights to issue binding orders over water entities if you're an Iwi elite Maori insider. Average Maori WON'T benefit from co-governance. This is tribal governance. Disgusting.
By partnership it's a crock
By NZ government it's a clock
Time distant space, , , 🎉
I'll be dambed if my children's children's children etc is going to be treated as lesser because of some interpretation of a Treaty in 1840.
Which part of the treaty would make you, your children, their children etc. lesser?
What does "lesser" even mean?
@@changing_thoughts80 take a minute and think. Clue: democracy undermined
@@olsaffa7679 You mean one people dominating another by the vote, you mean.
@Shaun Templey You can identify as Part-Maori as much as you like, but don't think you can make me less than you. You can think you're entitled to more than other citizens because of history, but you don't. The actual fact is you and I are both humans, no more or less and we are both NZ citizens, no more or less. I work hard for what I have and don't owe you anything. Especially not because of a part of your ancestry. NZ is being made an Apartheid state with a minority claiming superiority. We both have seen where that ends. NZ is a first world democracy and we are all picking the fruits from that, don't undermine it with Separatism/Apartheid.
@Robin Tamihere Who's leaving? So you think because my whakapapa comes through SA, as evident in my name, I somehow don't understand democracy? To the contrary, Apartheid is one of the reasons I stand here. I stand proud and I will call anyone out for racism/separatism/Apartheid
The treaty was in 1840 ! different world, life & life choice was totally different to today.Maori was a collection of mostly warring tribes ruled by tribalism ,slavery,superstition, disease ,illiteracy primitive agriculture& living! Western developed ideas& goods offered wonderful possibilities for a hugely better life MAORI SOCIETY HAD SUFFERED TERRIBLY THROUGH the40 years musket wars (no european involved) The treaty ended this racial genocide! Today is a different world..
very very evil, NZ is becoming a apartied state, and this policy will not save money, it just simply will not, adding another level of bueracracy, and that is expensive. He has also taken assets off council at a 10% price, assets that have been paid for over generations. His interpretation of the Treaty is not the one which has given us a peaceful nation for 180 years
Burn the treaty
There are NO treaty obligations, say a lie long enough and it becomes fact,STOzp LY iNG
You're in disneyland if you think that
Ignorance much! Reason why NZ history needs to be taught in schools.
Somehow part Maori today think that the Treaty is all about them and giving their Maori part and advantage. They should wake up if they think the Crown, with citizens already here, was pandering to fragmented Maori tribes with clubs and spears
You're really hung up on the "part Māori" thing, ay. (Racist dog whistle if ever I heard one.)
I realise you're super-unlikely to inform yourself about the history of colonialism in Aotearoa, but at least accept the fact that if someone is Māori, whether they're 1/16, 1/32, 1/512, 1/10,000, they are 100% tangata whenua and as such have special rights and privileges afforded to them by the crown as part of the treaty IT SIGNED.
If you feel lessened by that , it's on you, but be well assured that the crown has not often, if ever, actually lived up to its obligations to Maori under the treaty.
@Nathan Garthwaite Why's "Part-Maori" getting to you? Maybe because the "other part" of Part-Maori is Pakeha and the Maori claim is obviously not from anywhere but a place of greed. Are you keen being discriminatory against whatever percentage of yourself just because of dreams of entitlement? So no, I don't feel lessoned, I feel pity to people prepared to do that to themselves and part of their own family. BTW the "dog whistle" comment is so woke.
Keiran McNaulty is a snake in the grass.
He is a new style Communist
Look NZ, see your enemy, know their mind, see the carrot, understand the treachery.
How about asking him about the money they’ve pulled out of the deal to makes sound cheaper…actually nothing this govt does makes anything cheaper
so the question is: would you rather save rates or protect democracy? On balance, surely our democracy is more important.
You are dreaming if you think this will save Rates - if you include "Water" in the latter? It's a con and even the Govt. are now saying there won't be the same economies of scale under this revision. Even under their original scenario the savings were a lie, and after 30 years the accrued debt was still outstanding. (And when has this Labour Govt delivered on time and on budget on anything? (Crime, Housing, Health, Education, Cost of Living - and you believe them on this?) But putting that 'saving' delusion to one side, "democracy" should always win out.
It's a smoke screen for another Asset Grab !! Those without assets stand to gain while asset owners will be the Biggest Losers. They are trying to sell you the concept of Legalised THEFT by invoking ridiculous historical references & "reasons". It's an Orwellian nightmare in the making. Why the young & brightest are leaving Loony Land (Paradise Lost) in droves, never to return.
How audacious to inflict this at the expense of 94% of the population. If it's such a great "solution" & not another Giant Ponzi scheme, we dare them to hold a REFERENDUM - it's only FAIR & JUST to those who've been paying RATE$$ & more all their lives !
@@utubermax I clearly wasn’t clear, I wasn’t suggesting it will save rates, I was inferring if I had to choose between higher or lower rates, I’d go for higher rates if it preserves our democracy. So…we are in agreement.
@@stephenbrown6476 Yes, I gathered we were, but there is this delusion out there that this scheme will save ratepayers money. As I said, if you include water in the latter (rates), we will all end up paying a lot more, and the Te Mana O Te Wai Statements give certain 'part' Maori 100% control - there is no co-governance about it. It's a rort, plain and simple and totally undemocratic.
😂 honor the treaty!!!!!!!!
Why on earth was Labour not being this clear and upfront about the issues involved when Mahuta and Jacinda where leading the charge on 3 Waters …. I’d have to say for all Jacinda is revered as a “communicator” she just never fronted like this guy is. Instead we had years of radio silence on the issues …. Unbelievable….
wakeup lying from the get go
I won't just except anything Labour puts out as well intentioned. No wonder Jucinda tried to "cool things down" by resigning
She is a liar , simple as.
I don’t think Jacinda thought people believed this passionately about water infrastructure. And tbh I still don’t think they do, they just love race baiting
@Jazza I rather think that people see through this, thanks to people only now being told what's actually cooking. No thanks to the government sponsored media or Labour. I actually also blame National (supposedly the opposition
I, as rate rate payer will gladly suffer the increase rather than another failed labour project.
We proudly protested aparthied when it to ours shores, now we welcome segregation in the name of progress.
I fear the slim edge has long passed us by.
Labour will still screw it up, no question of that.
😂😂😂 shut up
I'm Maori and one person one vote should remain the core. the treaty was made many many years ago when our population was fuckinh tiny. Its like forcing the maori electorate. there is no one good to vote for.
Apartheid has no place in NZ. We are New Zealanders, no need to divide us. One people one nation.
What a load of rubbish. The treaty does not state that Maori have special rights over our water. It states we are all eligible to have the use of water as equals.
The treaty has been put in place for Maori to part of the commonwealth as we all are not to have governance undemocratically where they cannot be accountable. Every one has the ability to be voted on to councils regardless of race.
Jackie Manapouri
Maori ceded sovereignty to the crown, stop lying.
The issue is not only the undermining of democracy but, even worse, it splits the country along racial lines, Part Maori on the "special rights" side (as was Apartheid) and the rest. That Treaty, which allowed Maori to become British subjects, is suddenly all about Part Maori first. The Treaty definitely doesn't allow for Part Maori to be first-rated citizens and the rest second-rate.
Ignorance much and reason why NZ history needs to be taught in schools.
@Chris Whata The British wouldn't have signed a Treaty allowing Maori to become subjects And be allowed more rights than the Brits themselves. Who would have? It's now "read" this way because of colonialism suddenly becoming something negative. All just nonsense. And then the new thing is Part Maori are "over represented" in prison so Pakeha must be doing something wrong...
You do understand, legally, any non Māori living in Aotearoa whether born here or an immigrant lives here due to the acceptance and ruling agreed to in Te Tiriti o Waitangi, the legal founding document of this country agreed to by both Māori and the British Crown 1840.
@DIYGURU sounds as though you accept there's two parties to the Treaty, not only Maori. Then you must see that "the Crown" wouldn't have drawn up a Treaty only to the benefit of Maori. If that was the case, you could burn the Treaty because it will not stand in a modern world. Don't fool yourself, the Crown wasn't begging at the table. It was being diplomatic compared to how the rest of the empire came to be
@@olsaffa7679 The British were desperate, they were fighting hostile colonial takeovers in South Africa, India and many other regions across the globe. The British didn't have the soldiers available to take on Māori. Why do you think NZ is the only country in the Commonwealth that was founded by a legal agreement between the indigenous people and the British Crown rather than by war? You don't have to like it but that's NZ's founding document and no matter what you reckon it should be, you can't change it, you can only dishonour it, if you choose.
The treaty never gave maori special rights. They are British subjects and have the same righs not special rights. A load of crap from the left wing labour party. This is an absolute joke.
Financial reasons ! Yer to line their own pockets ! ! & sell us out down the toilet 👎😡
😱😱👁👁👎👎💩😡😡😡
So basically he's saying NZ isn't a democracy and a minority is more important than everyone else.
If you listened he said our founding document is the Treaty of Waitangi consented to by Maori and signed by the British colonizers (who then went ahead and stole Maori land and resources)
@Robin Tamihere You're not getting a cent from me because of stuff I had nothing to do with or benefitted from. The Land claims are nearly settled
@@olsaffa7679 You haven't benefitted???!!! Blind to privilege much?
@Joanne Long Oh really? Tell me how. I went to school and had to study to pass exams (I know there's not much nowadays). I worked hard at earning a Dollar and raising a family. Harder and got a degree while working 5 days a week. Got no handouts. But then to the woke I'm privileged because of my magic skin
@@n8zdagreat did maori have pipes in the ground before white man arrived?
'Recognising the particular rights of Maori'. What rights are 'particular' to Maori?
The strangest thing is this Tangata whenua nonsense. Somehow part Maori today think they are entitled to more than other citizens because a part of their ancestors arrived in NZ before those of others. Does the moon belong to the USA because Armstrong and the moon landing? Just as little. And now I keep hearing that "(part) Maori are over represented in prison, and Pakeha is to blame... Then white Kiwis are, even here in these comments, referred to as "colonizers". As though colonization is something that white people today has to be ashamed of and somehow owe these Part Maori for. All Kiwis should be Kiwis first, not (part) Maori or Pakeha. And colonization was about conquering and the old Maori loved warring themselves
Do a quick search online for te tiriti o waitangi and be sure to read the English and Maori version as a primer on what right Maori were promised.
Then you could have a look for academic work on interpretations and implementations of te tiriti to get a better picture of its historical and practical application
Burn the treaty.
@@j6077xxd you could burn it now, but it won't do any good. It's already out there in the world making change happen.
It's far better to try to understand it, to participate with Māori in interpreting it and finding mutually beneficial outcomes for the principles it codifies.
Te Tiriti o Waitangi isn't a threat, it's a promise of a better Aotearoa for all New Zealanders.
@@changing_thoughts80 I've read both versions. Academic interpretations? Shall I just interpret it anyway I like too? Can you name one of these special rights, that's the question.
And this is why labour won't get back in.
Bloody well hope so. Ideological nonsense being forced on the majority. Hope McNutty loses his seat.
Perhaps you haven't heard the saying don't count your chickens until they have hatched.Have you taken the time to check Nationals economic package,I have a kitchen strainer with less holes.
3 waters and Co Goverment should be settled by Referenda
Not even. Both are undemocratic and should be scrapped. All they'll achieve is extra costs and Apartheid, where a minority claims disproportionate power. It would have been unconstitutional if NZ had one.
@NA you do know that people without NZ citizenship vote? There's scores of people in NZ with passports to other countries, not being citizens in NZ, who as soon as there's a crisis or war, will pull out those passports and drop NZ like a hot potato. I think the price of citizenship (think it's something like $2000 per person) is too much for those who want to become Kiwis. I'd love to see the numbers of people only being permanent residents in NZ. Permanent residency holders vote.
Burn the treaty.
@@olsaffa7679 ,apartheid IS a crime against humanity!
For far too long, politicians have been promoting their braindead 'biculturalism' nonsense!
Who gives a monkey's about anyone's ethnicity? I certainly DO NOT!
The people of New Zealand deserve better than politicians committing treason against BOTH the people AND His Majesty the King!
The concept of 'co-governance' is so dumb - as the politicians want New Zealand to go down the dangerous road towards civil war!
@@olsaffa7679 Don't think it was undemocratic for the New Zealand government to take land of the Maori during the 1800s???
There is no "treaty obligation" that requires co-governance. In fact, if we are going to read "obligations" (that don't exist) into the Treaty, then I wonder what are the Maori obligations under the Treaty. It seems to me that Maori get to complain endlessly, while everyone else has an obligation to give in to their demands.
Read it before you say that. Because it states it in 2 articles.
Article 2 states that Maori have full control of their resources, language, taonga, and the Monarch has the responsibility to protect those rights.
Article 3 states that Maori on top of article 2 gives Maori rights as subjects of the monarchy equal to those coming here to live. Which means, they have a say at the decision making table.
Yup right like every other kiwi, not special rights/ie more control than any other individual. Let’s not segregate NZ
@@Drifty325i Spot on.
just an fyi , this is from the archive of nz;
The second
The Queen of England agrees to protect the chiefs, the subtribes and all the people of New Zealand in the unqualified exercise of their chieftainship over their lands, villages and all their treasures. But on the other hand the Chiefs of the Confederation and all the Chiefs will sell land to the Queen at a price agreed to by the person owning it and by the person buying it (the latter being) appointed by the Queen as her purchase agent.
@@shauntempley9757 you need to state the correct words as they are written, no changes
First how can you trust labor. Jacinda never talked about this and only when it came out then there has been a back flip or this is good for NZ. How is just giving seats to maori who havent been elected good for all New Zealanders. Maori will want something from this and of course it will be money. Who will pay for this,all Kiwis except Maori
Dump it regardless
If it is about Maori water rights entitlement as per the Treaty, are Maori also paying for the proportional water resource infrastructure, or does entitlement excludes all liability in the case of Maori?
The government is using the Freeman treaty. The wrong one!! This rubbish is not in the Te Tiriti o waitangi
The Treaty promised equal rights and duties for all citizens, Maori and non-Maori. It did NOT talk about partnership or additional rights for those with whakapapa Maori. How can it possibly save ratepayers money, when councils who have good systems are now going to help pay for council areas that haven't. Just so much BS. and PS, why would National want to "square a circle"? 😂
Hello, article 2 don’t skip over it please and it doesn’t say “Māori and non Māori” it says Māori have the same rights and privileges as British subjects. Get it right
@@michellenicholls9039 Well Michelle, if you want to get it right - that's not what it says and I think you're confusing it with Article the Third but, by all means, tell us what you think Article the Second actually says and what version are you referring to?
@@utubermax well ya racist.. yes I’m talking about the authoritative version not the fraudulent English version that Mr Hobson made up. No matter which version you talk about article 2 Māori have full sovereignty over their villages, land, and treasures, in the English version Māori keep possessions of land, forest, and fisheries. So why don’t you stfu and go read the Treaty for your damn self you lazy goofball.
All I see is a man with a fork tongue
Apartheid here we come
Burn the treaty.
ok so he made it very clear ...labour is nt democratic
THERE ARE NO TREATY OBLIGATION OTHER THAN MAORI CULTURE PROTECTED.
Even then that is debateable for what that is. They certainly have no more rights over water than anyother person born in NZ>
Is this why Maori are suddenly walking around saying that Maori own the water? This man has sown a very very dangerous seed.
Not Maori !!!
It's MSM media
Racism is the new 0range😊
He lies, the whole water thing has never been tested in a court of law. It has only been tested by treaty obligations, two totally different things. McNutty should go back to cutting scrub in Pongaroa!!
If government just wants to help ratepayers, why not just give councils the money! It is taxpayers!
absolute rubbish kieran treaty stats 1 equal vote for all of nz
This is what Australia might be experiencing. So it probably time to become informed about what the Voice to Parliament might really be like.
If you are wondering about the fine print of the Voice and what will happen after the referendum - I have just been reading the UN General Assembly on the rights of Indigenous people. There are numerous chapters, but it essentially says that Indigenous people have the right for self determination. This is interesting, because when Gough Whitlam started campaigning for aboriginal rights, that was his main goal and various Labour governments have continued in this vein. Now, Gough is Albanese’s hero and he wants to emulate Gough and live up to Gough’s expectations or even go one better and deliver Gough’s goal and deliver the UN General Assembly goals.
This also fits with the goals of the 1982 National Aboriginal Conference, where a draft Makaratta detailed requirements for self determination or Aboriginal Sovereignty. There are some pretty scary demands in this Draft (eg tax relief for 195 years, payment of 5% of GDP for 195 years etc- research it for yourself). Aboriginal Sovereignty was also the main driver at the Canberra Tent Embassy. Articles from this Makaratta appear also to be included in the Uluṟu Statement from the Heart. Marcia Langton and Patrick Dodson would be most aware of the 1982 Makaratta. And the kicker - 2022 an expression of interest was released by Penny Wong for an Aboriginal Ambassador to “lead indigenous perspectives experiences and interests into foreign policy and First Nations trade and investment” - I expect because the Voice has further un-mentioned goals. So, when Albanese says “trust us”, it will all be worked out after the referendum. Just like his pre-election promises - that has worked out too well.
So why doesn’t the government want to give out further details on the Voice? In absence of any detail from the government, it can only be concluded that Aboriginal self determination or Aboriginal Sovereignty is the clear driver behind the Voice and these details are what is being kept from the Australian people. So a No vote would be appropriate.
Rate payers should have the say .not just based on race. Rubbish labour
The costs are because of supposed "treaty obligations" and Liebor's insistence in 50% appointed boards - all unnecessary. Additionally the cost of globally employed consultants (from India, UK, Europe, USA) is astronomical - all being put up in central Auckland and Wellington hotels at taxpayer expense...the process if allowed to continue will bankrupt New Zealand before it even starts in 2026
I guess if New Zealand voters research all this and bypass the hype and bias ideologies then we will see what they really think of all this at the next election.
@Robin Tamihere There is nothing in any of the three Treaty Articles that suggests that Māori should have any special right above other New Zealanders. The Treaty itself guarantees that “all the ordinary people of New Zealand ... have the same rights and duties of citizenship...”. The Treaty does not confer greater privileges on Māori than the Government owes to other New Zealanders. All New Zealanders have a basic human right that they are treated equally under the law and with equal political worth - one person, one vote. The book “Only one sun in the sky” is a must read before any treaty discussion.
As Dame Anne Salmond wrote, “it is the 1987 neo-liberal rewriting of the Treaty of Waitangi as a ‘partnership between races’ that lies at the heart of current difficulties in reconciling Te Tiriti with democratic principles, not the original text.”
Will the huge cash settlements ever end? Is this a rhetorical question? I feel they will continue after my life time in my beloved NZ
I just can't see why the Govt appoint a Minister to control water services and their sole role is to work with Council CEOs to ensure water services are up to scratch. Govt could supply funding controls and ensure councils spend wisely. Why all this extra bloated bureaucracy? Why create all this racial division? Why not let water services experts do what they need to do? Why make this bigger than Ben Hur when it doesn't need to be?
Because Councils pay higher interest on $ borrowed and ability to borrow funds limited due to Council credit ratings. The AA+ credit rating the govt has allows them to own the risk and borrow the billions needed and at a far lower rate. The size of each govt owned entity determines the interest rate hence a national company would have been the biggest saving, the 4 proposed entities were calculated to service 1 million+ people whereas the 10 entities, I guess, represent groups of 500,000 to about (guess) 1.7m in Auckland/Northland hence making the cost of servicing the loan higher than the 4 body model. That's why they have kept the option of entities merging available to save ratepayers more money. Costs will differ in different groups.
Perhaps you should rewatch the video, seems like you missed the context
so labor change the name and thinks its different, reminds me of the two guys walking down the rd,who stop look down and say, if it looks like shit, smells like shit, it is more than likely, shit. labor needs to learn the history and how to read, interjecting things that aren't there is just them trying to change the true history, the country can see right through them. liars and cheats. learn the history and reasons behind it , Maori asked for the treaty and got what they asked for, no where is co governance mentioned in the treaty, it does how ever say they can look after all their tribal matters, but if you looks at it tribes have now broken up into individual iwis, which is a choice of Maoris own making, as said they asked, they received , any modern claims are null in void.
Good to hear a clear informative discussion on this topic rather than MPs running round in circles.
Really disappointed that our democracy has come to this. Even this guy acknowledged it was an undemocratic proposal. There are so many other elegant funding choices without creating a more, always inefficient, bureaucracy. We wonder who is really pushing this crazy proposal.
Burn the treaty.
@@j6077xxdwhat he's saying about co-governance isn't even in the treaty. As far as I understand, it's from a decision by the Waitangi tribunal. The treaty is very clear that Maori people will have the same rights and responsibilities as British subjects. So, we should all have an equal right to an equal vote.
@@peterwallis4288 the original 'Littlewood draft' is clear. Keep that version, burn all the new versions which are nothing but separatist manifestos.
The majority of New Zealanders say NO to Co Governance... Maori is included in this number. We were the first democratic country in the world and part of that is the treaty agreement that calls on us to be one equal people... one vote for all... your ethnic background and colour of your skin does not come into it. Labour is determined to totally divide us as a nation with this policy and all their misinformation they spout and expect us to believe without question. You have to go Labour because you do not accept that New Zealanders are proud to be a democracy and demand that all its citizens have equal rights and equal voting power..
If it's not based in democracy why do it
Same could be said for colonial British theft of Maori land and resources over 100 years ago
@N and so? Do you think I, because I have no Maori blood, should pay for someone with some percentage Maori blood, for things I had nothing to do with or benefitted from? I worked for what I have and owe nobody anything, especially on the basis of racism and Apartheid.
Burn the treaty.
why let the least competent government in decades railroad one of the most significant reforms in recent history with only months left in office.
Lets' have the next government review it first. As the minister mentioned; governments successively honor their legal requirements.
You obviously have little or know knowledge of the damage done to NZ by the Muldoon government of 1978 - 81 & the Springbok tour
Jack tame and his labor platform also known as a jack tane labor party political broadcast.
@Robin Tamihere that's exactly what it was a conversation between to lefty labor twats
Deffo wasn't an interview.
Rip up the Treaty of Waitangi. It is not fit for purpose.
Congrats to Jack Tame for asking many of the contraversial questions that Cabinet Ministers have consistently refused to answer so far.
In his next interview perhaps he would raise the issue of Coastal and Geothermal Waters that have apparently been quietly added to the scope of the proposed enforced legislation.
All water 💦
The Queen of England signed the co-governance agreement with the Maori Queen on the Waikato River in 2010 . pretty good modern precedent for the legal standing of the treaty. And you can't deny Auckland has reaped the benefits by having water security with the pipeline from the Waikato, There were no co-governance issues during the drought. And Jack when you get told there is a treaty and obligations within law that are undemocratic there is really no need to keep on the one person one vote gotcha.
and that is why we kicked Labour out - no to co governance - Kiwi's won't have it...
Anything that this Govt touches ends up in a mess as we can see in their history.
Māori ‘s Flags should hoist all over the world NZ embassy
I have mentioned to Australian indigenous peoples same
Canada & USA as well
That’s their identity
Can he please explain section 3.4(4) of the Governments national policy statement for fresh water management 2020 (updated this year) and how he sees that impacting non Maori.
Maori seats are still one person one vote. Cogovernance is not.
As to the Treaty in its 1840 context it was an exchange of subjection in return for protection, by which Maori and Pakeha became equally subjects UNDER the crown-. Today that translates to voters in equal electing the Crown- one person, one vote.
The Treaty did NOT give Maori parity with the Crown. In return for all hapu recognising that the government of the Queen applied over all of their lands as a singular arch authority, the Crown guaranteed the full ownership and administration- tino rangatiratanga- of the respective lands of each hapu, that is of land retained in native title. Land sold to the Crown became Crown land under Crown ownership and authority. Tino Rangatiratanga is indivisibly linked to native title, and is NOT an extraterritorial authority. Period.
It is only by dishonouring the treaty - te reo text- to mean something it never did,, that this whole fallacy of cogovernance has been created,.Which is ironic, when Maori have repeatedly asked that the Treaty be honoured. This perversion of that ancestral covenant is a modern shame.
Tribal rule - nice one Aoterroroa.
Maori are not indigenous,the earl6 settlers and descendants are,they made this land a countr6, not colonised it
History books say otherwise. Maori were here hundreds of years before you came along colonizer and will be here hundreds of years after. Just waiting on all that stolen Maori land and resources to be returned, it'll happen soon :)
@@n8zdagreat maori came here in the 13th C. All that was here when the settlers arrived were some independant tribes, settlers made communities and eventually a central government, what did maori do except fight each other and eat them and still a stone age culture. Plenty of evidence to show they were not the first come and they ceded soverignty to the English crown and land was bought, mostly. So there was no colonisation,
@@n8zdagreat You're ensuring nobody will take you seriously with all your "supremacy" and racism. Stop wasting space in the comments.
@@olsaffa7679 Speaking of supremacy hows all that stolen Maori land and resources going conilonzer? Given all that stolen Maori land back yet interloper?
@N Are you even from New Zealand or are you one of those people who leave NZ off the map because you don't know where it is? Have you heard what's been happening via the tribunal and land? Wikipedia it. Land claims are being sorted. Land taken, restored but not land bought. BTW calling me a colonizer doesn't upset me, mate. 1) it's wrong because I'm not THAT old - nobody could be and 2) colonization is just another way of saying conquered. All peoples warred and the real Maories (non left) loved it. They even had some big BBQ's after. Stop being a racist. If you were a Kiwi, I would have told you to first be a Kiwi and then whatever.
The country was settled before the treaty of Waitangi.
Yup Maori been here hundreds of years before the Treaty. British colonizers are just land thieves and interlopers
Financial reasons ? Yer to line their own pockets 😱😱👁👁👎👎😡😡😡😡
Wierd that he knows the tararuas district rate payers and goosed and many other councils saddled with enormous debt trying to keep up with growth and infrastructure requing more investment. But not offer government money to step in and help fund strategic infrastructure that would be owned by the councils
Co government where are you going to find the Maori academics to provide equal government
Woah interesting chat! How do we justify saving inflationary fiat in exchange for water? What? Yes we need to agree upon weights and measures for settlements...when's the air tax for fiat already demonstrated human warrants of fitness using QR codes... what's next?
Democracy with New Zealand characteristics.
Look at wyndham and edendale southland been there done this.
Jack please ask the following: did any members of the labor government meet with the Chinese government police from Hong Kong. The nz police were dealing with a country who beat up and killed it people support Russia with two million wega people wrongfully detained. Theese Chinese police were giving advice on how to beat up New Zealanders while also showing them sensitive areas of police communications. Time for the police commissioner to be fired. Down the road for ken and barbie rather than selling important information to the Chinese as a spy as there has been many in nz from china. We just opened the book for them because ken and now barbie are idiots. Whats the point in having a secret service if Ken is going to do that short of s... my guess is Jacinder Meet with rhem also. This information needs to be found out as most new Zealanders would not want china giving advice on policing. Unless we want anthor solmans islands.
What are you actually talking about
Buggar the Maoris!
A clearly reasoned and logical proposition Neville... yeah bugger them, it’s not like Europeans just rocked up a nicked their land is it.
Back to UK for you racist colonizer interloper Maori land thief
@Grace Good I "nicked" nobody's land and worked and is working hard for what I have put together. You might be a proponent of "white guilt", but I don't think anybody is
@Grace Good I "nicked" nobody's land
@@gracegood3661 what a dickhead comment.
Finally, Co Governance 🙌
Jack isn't good at this at all. Weak interview.
Really don't understand a lot of fear towards co-governance in this comment section, it is a-democratic, MMP itself is not the pure idea of 1 person 1 vote democracy, securing an electorate seat below 5% allows party vote percentage representation etc. When Maori are disproportionately in poverty, when their communities have disproportionately unequal access to healthy water, the only way to go about changing that is to give those groups agency on an executive level. I think the same could be said about the dichotomy between the working and wealthy in this country. A large chunk of this countries wealth sits in land value, where from the signing of the treaty land has been systematically stripped away from Maori, that has happened, there are consequences to that, efficiently and effectively bringing water infrastructure to communities without, disproportionately maori, requires agency and input from those groups as does anything.
Maori lover
Bell is of the same ethnicity as the interviewer........
really well explained and best way to go very smart this guy
Great to hear The Treaty being respected with responsible financial reforms
Which "modified" version?? The original treaty NO the version that says maori, will rule the counrty.. YES
it isnt,i suggest you read the treaty
Are Maori prepared to pay half of all the costs of this....? Hell no....they want ownership....long as its no cost to them!!
"Treaty obligations"? Bullshit...
All new Zealands
I'm Australian, Do any Maori in the comments find this co governance helping in any way ? ,I'm just asking because I'm trying to decide on 'The Voice' referendum here in Australia ?
Burn the treaty.
I like this guys calmness and ability to respond.
Yeah. Most people would respond a lot better if they weren't being hounded by gotcha journalists cutting them off every three seconds. Labour is down with the Government, so they always get the kid gloves. Tame should be grilling this guy on Te Mana o Te Wai statements. But nothing.
watch the calmness, it'll lead you into a false sense of security, then hit you in the wallet
@@Newscannet I think "Do you accept this model is not strictly a one person one vote model?" and "Is doing 10 entities to get mayors on board when it will cost rate payers more than 4 entities?" (paraphrasing on that last one) are pretty tough questions, Kieran just happened to have better answers than say David Seymour when Jack asked him about ACT's previous climate change denialist statements and he was way less agro about the questions being asked than Wayne Brown
Excellent work Kieran and Labour, Treaty being respected as with National under John Key and Finlayson for decades. As an Irish immigrant you will be getting my vote!
For God's sake don't waste your vote on these wokesters, you'll be poorer and bereft of any democratic rights before you know it, they're socialists, it's Marxism and not at all good for a healthy society.
treaty isnt being respected thou,McNaulty been told to lie,wakeup
Go back to Ireland then and stop stirring this country up. Chip on your shoulder?
@@samo7965 Go back to UK colonizer honki
@@pinkybar7328 I prefer facts not fiction, fk off
Maori should have all power, pakeha are from Europe, not Aotearoa. Got a cheek coming here and try and dictate to us.
Absolutely magnificent! This content needs smzeus!!