$100K in Prizes!! Largest in US Crit Racing History | INTO THE LION'S DEN
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- čas přidán 3. 11. 2021
- Legion's Into the Lion's Den had some controversy, comment below and let me know how we can make this sport safer and more fair.
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A little controversy, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Should certain teams be allowed more riders? Should subtle deviations be allowed? Comment below.
If it is their "club race", they can make the rules. If you don't like that they have two teams, which is ridiculous (having two teams), don't ride. Sprints deviations are dangerous and on many occasions criminal behaviour, which should lead to lifetime bans, if you ask me. It is worse than being juiced up to the hairtips.
Not fussed about multiple sub teams, just don't market them as otherwise though. Re: the "Martinez chop" - suble deviations don't put you into a barrier - that could have broken bones.
Disqualification or loss of prize money is the only remedy.
He has no reason not to do it again otherwise. Not sure if Red Bull would be too impressed by this either tbh.
Untill there will be a strict "No fucking deviation" from your line rule (enforced with absolute consistency), all sprints are simply a joke.
Jeff I totally agree with everything you said. Yes, that rider only slightly deviated, but he looked back multiple times to see where you were and used your position to inform his decision on moving to the left. If he wanted to be on that left barrier his leadout man should have brought him there to begin with. Also, I think it's quite controversial how Legion preach so much about equality in the sport yet they make their event invite-only and give themselves a clear advantage over everyone else with double the amount of riders. That said, it is their event, and with the amount of money on the line it makes sense to be invite-only, and they can make the rules whatever they want. I think it's great to increase the prize money, but not when you give yourself the upper hand to win it. All of this definitely speaks to their character and ethics as a group, which is why I personally have never been a fan of Legion. Just my opinion though.
Teams should have equal amount of riders. The sprinting lane deviation rule should be strictly enforced. Way too dangerous for everyone involved and even those just a handful of secs behind. I think the sprinting lane deviation rule should be number 1 priority for the safety of all riders. It’s not always going to be easy similar to helmet to helmet contact in American football but it’s working and has greatly improved safety in the league in my opinion.
Jeff, definitely agreed with the critiques you made. Seems kind of like a clout/prize grab for them disguised as an event to promote US cycling scene. Curious why they didn't either A) invite more Conti teams or B) just fielded one squad or not compete at all.
Also may the guy who shut the door on you be blessed with a popped tire on every ride they do for the rest of their lives.
Why don’t you run a race with the same purse and do it better.
All this x suited them talk as if they dont smoke everyone.
Not sure why your two characterisations of the event ( PR & $ for the team and promotion of cycling in the US) are mutually exclusive
@@mattk8810 If you could read, I already stated how I would have ran it if I was Legion or a similarly sized and recognized team.
Legion putting two teams in did nothing to raise awareness or help the scene grow. As Jeff said early in the video, Legion winning the race was a foregone conclusion because of how they stacked the race with two teams, for no seemingly good reason other than stacking their chances of getting the prize money.
For competitive integrity, they could have invited more Conti teams. No offence to every other team there but most of the amateur teams have jobs outside of cycling. I am sure lots of Legion riders get paid to train.
What exact conti teams could they have invited that they haven’t already destroyed? Intelligentsia cup was all conti teams and they did the same thing. The team invites make no difference in usa cycling for legion.
@@xgalvan1were Hagens Berman and wildlife generation generation in the cup? Also my point that at intelligentsia at least they invited other Conti teams with a much closer result. Also a 2 point win in intelligentsia is destruction? And project echelon also had two cyclists in the top 10 and placed second place. If that's what you think destroyed looks like, then go off I guess 🤡
What a Dbag move by that guy... it's one thing to close the door on someone, but to check back, see you're going to lose the sprint, and intentionally endanger another rider to stop them from passing you is just pathetic and cowardly. His move was very reminiscent of the Fabio Jakobsen crash in my opinion, thankfully with a much less dreadful outcome.
Even pro cyclist do that, they just get fined and lose points in the race. This race was stacked from the beginning and seemed like a total cluster f.
Too bad its an unsanctioned race, i've had plenty of these encounters even on xc races and had some fair share of crashes, morons purposely look back and give you the smirk and decides to alter their selected course just to prevent you from passing them.
for $4k in a crit, you close the door.
@@leod4315 even though closing that door cost you 25k in the hospital? 🤔 it doesn't add up my friend.
@@Joshua-dx7zn furtherest from the truth, so I'm glad that's just your opinion....Sure they could've tweaked some obvious things mentioned but it was the FIRST one..It'll be better, just give it time...
Jeff, now that you're a masters racer you get the privilege of yelling "Hold your line" at any point in a crit. Welcome to the club buddy.
Not just crits. Road races, group rides, hell, even time trials if you're feeling like chirping someone.
@@KevinDoyle0 hell, even yell it in grocery stores!
My favorite comment 😆
"Rubber side down boys! we all have work on monday!!"
@@NorCalCycling At our next NCNCA race i'll bring the cooler full of beers so we can reminisce about the golden era of racing!
Uhh I saw the sprint where you got boxed in the VC channel. Came as quickly as possible to watch this video.
Same here
I flew out to Sacramento from Minneapolis to watch the race. It was pretty fun to watch. I enjoyed seeing everyone I watch on CZcams race in real life. As cool as it was to see you all race in the men's race, in my opinion, the women's race was really the main event. That field was absolutely stacked. It was fun to watch Pieters, Moolman-Pasio, and Vollering get on the front and just shred the field in the first 15 mins. I hope the race comes back next year with a men's field that's just as stacked as the women's field was this year. If the field was filled with WT and Pro-continental riders, Legion would have definitely had to work harder for that money. Also, Luke Lamperti is a monster, taking on the legion train of a dozen riders by himself and getting 2nd is crazy.
that kid is a BEAST!!
They could have also invited the better American men's teams. But I'm sure that Rally wouldn't change their colors and probably would have won.
Dayum you could really feel Jeffs rage from the photo finish.. still the right move though health > money🙏👌.. montrous sprint as always ride safe
If Legion can stack the field, surely they can implement & enforce some safety measures
this. fair and safe is what keeps the sport 🔥
I wonder what would have happened if that guy cut off a Legion rider going for a prime or finish.....
I agree what L39ion is doing for the sport is amazing, but they do need to make some changes and enforce or make some rules to make guys want to come back and race. Glad the 35 yr old Jeff had some sense to hit the brakes when that idiot cut you off. That could've ended horribly.
What are they doing for the sport?
@@thhorwitz1 A lot more than your 16 sec contribution of a crit crash, I'm sure.
@@lejuanjames3196 Savage
@@lejuanjames3196 no seriously, what does this race do to further the sport?
@@lejuanjames3196 lmao clown get defensive real quick
Saw this on VC's video and knew it was gunna come up again, it was so obvious that guy boxed you in because he was losing quick
He should have been relegated, this was literally the same move that put Fabio Jakobsen in a coma.
@@kr7epj4x He would have if the event was an UCI event. But I think this punishment is not enough, this behaviour should lead to a ban for months or even forever.
That picture really captures it. You got robbed.
Bummer about that prime. Bike racing gave me some of the best life advice: you’re allowed to be angry and sulk over a bad race result for as long as it takes you to consume a water bottle. After that it’s time to move on. Full disclosure: I’ve never had to make peace with being chopped out of a $4K prime before
never had to make peace with it because you always won it instead, right? haha
Lol. You know it! I like to think every pair of socks I got when beating a 14 year old novice was worth at LEAST 4 grand! 🤣🤣
Hnnuu
Really great seeing you in the race!!
I saw the deviation live from the side lines, if I could see it clear as day the officials did too. This was a great event hope it comes back next year, and it was great to meet you Jeff thanks for the pic.
"Oh cool, a guy that rides the same bike as me doing well!"
"Oh no, he's the villain of this story..."
The guy who boxed you in didn't pass the vibe check.
My guy didn't even pass the basic cycling etiquette check.
@@maple4567 Exactly. Proper d bag in my book. Jeff could’ve used that $4k on crypto 😁
To the moon baby
@@NorCalCycling To the moon!
lol his strava profile says "good vibes only" ... yeah sure...
Nice to meet you at the event, Jeff. See you around riding on Cañada road and foothill. I gotta check out Alviso races soon enough
Love your channel. I saw the VC breakdown first and cursed out loud when you got hosed. Was waiting for this salty breakdown!
I actually did not know that was a rule, I thought it was more of a common sense/courtesy sort of thing. But in any case that was still a monster Sprint you pulled off! They should review that and give you a least 500 bucks or something. Great critique Jeff! I hope I can get into racing soon before I get too old. Currently right at the end of 22 for me
It wasn’t a sanctioned race so in this race it wasn’t a rule they enfored
You Da Man Jeff! I agree with all your points, no arguing them. It was an awesome event and yes there is some room for improvement. Hopefully this is the start of lots of good things to come.
i love always watching your vids. norcal🖤 from philippines here🇵🇭
Was there at the event and saw you shaking your head in anger after that $ lap towards the end. Even though I could tell you were frustrated, from a fan perspective the whole event was really exciting and inspiring.
That was ruuudee man. You were flying in that sprint, perfect execution once again
There is one good thing about UCI sanctioned races - the guy pinching you on purpose after looking were you are would have been relegated and in case of a crash disqualified.
Yup, that's a reallu great rule actually
@@michadebicki6534 Relegation isn't enough, because in cycling the winner takes all the fame. So they don't risk much by blocking other riders who would havbe overtaken them anyway, but they win if the block is successful. But it's a start.
Looking at some UCI sanctioned Sprint finishes I have to hard disagree. Sometimes it happens, sometimes they don't care either.
I’ve been waiting to hear your thoughts. I was standing at the line. You got pinched hard
Either way, great seeing you race and I’m glad you felt the crowds energy
Well that was nerve wrecking! Great effort!
Was waiting for your video when I saw this on VCs channel. You really got robbed on that 4k. But what matters more is that you didn't crash and can still race full well another day
If I had a dollar for every prime I've been bullied out of I'd, well, have no money at all. Great video Jeff!
In the True World, you won the prime! Looking forward to the single-speed racing video!
Jeff, you had this one! Miami Vice is the same guy who speeds up to pass people before red lights.
THAT.WAS.UNFAIR!!!!
the 4k lap had my heartbeats go wayy up. The guy in front of you was a weak and unsportsmanshiplike athlete.
My respeect for leigion just went down!
nice commentry just like always, Mike!
tough breaks :/ thanks for an exciting crit though. thoroughly enjoyed being there.
Absolute joke of a cut from that guy. So deliberate too when you see him glancing back at you. I'd be furious enough to tell him what I thought after but you definitely handled it with grace despite the very justified anger at the time.
7:30 i feel for you in that picture man - nice sprint tho!
Sprint deviation enforcement squad? Call up Lanterne Rouge!
Jeff-Really enjoy your videos and racing insight. I have learned a lot from you.
There are rules of engagement in all things even on a battlefield where your job is to take life and to protect your brother standing next to you. Winning without honor devoid of integrity is a loss and the promotor should not have paid Miami Blazer Rider # 24.
In the heat of competition, we all do things we regret-and no one is perfect in the moment. His character will be measured now after the race. He clearly deviated from his line, he knows it and anyone who watches the video knows it. He should renounce his hallow victory and the money should be sent to you.
If he had any honor and reflected on the cheapness of the win, he would do the right thing.
There should at least be a protest period and it would seem that the purse should at least be split 50/50.
I would have loved to see 25 year old reckless Jeff going roller derby on ol’ gray jersey for the 4K prime!
As long as Jeff found a source for first person race footage for my trainer rides this winter, sure, why not? Kidding. (mostly).
I wonder if that same door closing would happen if these guys all raced the same series against each other all the time. Easier to (dangerously) close the door on a "CZcams guy" from the other side of the country when you know you probably won't be on the road with him more than once or twice, ever again.
Like AL pitchers getting a free pass when the throw high and inside... Its basically assault, with little fear of retaliation.
The road tapering in to the finish line was also dangerous, but no doubt is advantageous if you have a strong train coming in to the finish.
Which no doubt would favour L39ion due to their massive representation which would equate to a strong train....see what they did there? :)
@@independentmind1977 they seem like a dick team to be honest. Wish no one entered the race and no spectators came and their sponsors pulled out
the leaf in the ole pully wheel, gotta love it
I’ve been waiting on this video.
Thanks
Hope you enjoyed it!
I've been waiting for your take on this race. All of your points are solid. I saw that 3rd party footage of that $4k prime sprint. That dude is straight trash for deviating so clearly after seeing you were about to beat him. So dangerous. You should be pissed. As a side note, you should print and frame that photo of you with your hand up, screaming at him. lol On another note...awesome kits for everyone.
Yeah, great picture, it should be in the dictionary: "angriness"
I'd mail it to him. Weekly. Until I'd spend $4k on stamps. But I'm petty.
Jeff holy shit even that first prime lap was a close call. Hands flew to my head!!! Pucker factor extreme...
Dang that was close! I would’ve braked earlier bc I’m old lol. Solid effort 💪🏻
Hands down the most exciting bike channel out there. How about you race those Crits daily in the off season 😅😅 ?
This just seems like one big money grab by legion. Fielding 2 teams to give yourself the biggest advantage in an event that you created and not allowing anyone else to do the same is just ridiculous. Sure it's an unsanctioned race and they can do what they want but it verges on pathetic ego boosting
thank you for making these
He put you in an unwinnable situation. Smart move letting off, but what a bummer.
Hey Great video & Narration
When the odds are stacked so heavily in Legions favor with wide open roads no wonder so few fans lining the course. San Rafael way more fun and interesting to watch because of the final corner and course layout. Huge cycling fan energy too.
That squeeze is like every crit finish I did out here in the eastern tri-state area.
My guys in the hood would be like "Ey, tell me the guy's location"
For real tho, youre the winner in our hearts Jeff. Its a bummer to lose the 4k but atleast you dont spend 10-50k in the hospital. Ride safe!♥️
Kudos to the other guy too. He was strong.. but only 2nd
You rode like a FKN champ!!! Hats off for a great event (wish I had been there) we need MORE of this in North America to bring back cycling and wake up the sponsors. BUUUUT I lost some respect for L39ion for how they stacked the lineup (I'm happy about them being the only UCI pro team which I guess gives everyone else more a chance at rent money.)
Absolutely love your content brother!! Looking forward to the off-season stuff as well.
#RobbArmstrong
Someone needs to call that dude out by name. At the very least public shaming is in order. As far as all of Legion getting to ride … a-ok … it’s their personal event.
Was that Clever Martinez on Miami?
Seems to me that Legion is rigging the game in their favour.
That’s why it’s called into the lions den. Come race us for fun and if you can beat us we will pay you. If not, we’re taking all of SRAMs money. Puttin money where their mouth is, bold.
legion is only good against [US clubs]
It’s their event. Their rules. Good times.
@@xgalvan1 would be great if no one entered and SRAM took their money elsewhere to a not greedy and lame team
Great recap and sorry about Mr. Miami. All of us would have preferred Team Golden State to take the prime. Same as you, I thought the event was a resounding success and I'm super excited to see these races next year. However, as with your race, the amateur race was almost devoid of rules. Many/?Most? lapped riders were not pulled and some of them re-joined the field after being lapped. Also, we had a rider come out of the wheel pit and join our break. He didn't know any better.. and that's a problem.
Jason, thanks for sharing. Looks like other fields were also subject to some safety/fairplay oversights. I like 95% of what Legion is doing, and overall it's great for the sport. Just some minor details need to get ironed out for this to be perfect. 🤙
Great to meet you before the race, Jeff! As far as seeding a new racing format, you can't fault LE9ION too much for stacking the field, pushing the marketing, etc. However, if the format sticks, it has to be handed over to a "necessary evil" like UCI to arbitrate infractions. If you did push that gap, it could have been catastrophic, with the field - I'm assuming - not far behind the lead three.
I like 95% of what Legion is doing here, and I agree this might be the new format, which I'm totally excited about. Just want to shine a light on a couple small things that can be changed to make it even better.
@@NorCalCycling If this series goes forward, why should Mikes Bikes bother putting their name on the jersey. They can just pay Justin to promote it throughout his series. Justin owns the teams, the jerseys, the race series.
Shutting the door while sprinting near the end should be protested
that prime finish was no class from that guy, he literally shut it down in the shadiest way possible. Dude should be ashamed if he did get the gut to admit he screwed up. Glad you are still upright to continue making Alviso video :D
Before cycling, I played 25 years of competitive basketball. Several times I was invited to play in leagues and tournaments, respectively, where it was clear the cards were stacked in favor of the promotors/organizers/owner of the gym. Basketball players recognize this and just deal with it.
#1-We can either accept it for what is, or just simply take our ball and go home. We do not have to participate.
#2- Using the same analogy, I've seen plenty of basketball promoters invite players whom they have a good rapport with, rather than always inviting "the best" players. Why should your enemies and critics get to partake and benefit from your generosity?
#3- Why would Legion invite the teams and racers, the ones whom clearly have shown to be against Legion, to a private race? And why are we assuming more teams weren't invited rather than simply declining?
#4- I am 100% on board with your feedback btw. Very fair points and clearly in good faith. From my observation the majority of talking points have still been criticizing Legion for stacking teams rather than celebrating the good they've done. Do we really not care about the women's field? What about the fact Luke Lamperti took second place with basically minimum teammates?
I'm really hoping for 2022 that teams can work together or perhaps acquire more sponsorship money, because that's probably what it's gonna take to compete with Legion. And then that way...teams can host their own races and dictate their own rules.
Patrick - like i mentioned in the vid, I totally agree this is a huge plus for the sport, and love what Legion is doing. Can they do a couple more things to make it even better? I think so, and that is the motivation of my constructive criticism in this vid. If this is the future of US crit racing (which i think it is, and ought to be), we should strive to make it as safe and fair as possible.
@@NorCalCycling Thanks Jeff for the reply. I didn't wanna muddy my original post, but your Alviso videos have helped me more than you'll ever know, in my very short career as a wannabe crit racer. Salute
Patrick, i know you've been a fan of the channel for a long time. Cheers to your continued support, and kind words. Love opening the dialogue and just want to make this sport as fair, safe and inclusive as possible.
It's one thing to deviate a little from your line while sprinting.. it's another thing to look back, seeing an opponent and deliberately deviate to block someone.
Tbh, his bike, socks and hair gave of that he was a douchebag to me even before the dick move. F that guy
Any way we could get our hands on the entire footage of the race? Would be awesome for training!!!
That look back was all you need to point out. I saw it before you noted it.....and thought, ok dude, that was an intentional block. Not a particularly devious or dangerous one, but just lame. Sorry you didn't get by him before that, but that long finish is a hard one.
Floriduhhh checking in.
Always love your commentary. Smart racing on your part.
1) Legion has everyone talking about the 2 teams rather any agree or not (marketing)
2) I’m curious about how many preems Legion won
3) prize $$$ to amateur teams huge upside
And at the end of the day, it’s all about great competition
Gettem next year
I'm also curious.. did L39ION sit out of the primes?
@@jgrefrath they "sat out".....VeloNews article with prime winners (posting here also)
answer to 2) none. they sat those out. Look for my other post in here...velonews listed winners
two out of three in the break we caught at 10 to go ($4k prime) were legion.
@@NorCalCycling hey Jeff! nah, I didn't mean like they said 'no racing for primes for us', but "sat out" like they were 100% behind trying to win the race 1,2,3 and that's the only focus. And thank goodness for disc brakes and not being 25 yr old Jeff. lol (Clever is 31 btw😝🧂, so he knows better 100%)
Love the videos
sports brings out the best and the worst of us, this part: winning at all cost, has always been a major issue for me. I do see it as a trait that comes alongside cheating/doping, but on the other hand I do undertand it at the heat of the moment, as you said, when you´re 20 you take a lot of risk without even thinking about it so I always give it the benefit of the doubt, but I get pissed of when the rules are clear.
I liked the part where you were like " 22 year old me would have been like Jesus take the wheel, I'm not touching brakes, we are going to crash or I'm going to win!"
Well I'm glad you're not 22, and the wiser you ensured a safe end to that dangerous sprint! This sprint reminds me of Jakobsen's crash, eerily similar situation!
Good race jeff
"Jesus take the wheel." - made my day
sometimes these phrases just come to me 😆
Dude that line you took with 400 to go was clutch. You deserved that preme.
GCN should make a caption competition for 7:29
I agree with your frustration 100%. I would have gone and have a word with him after the race, or even during. But being in the same position as the dbag, I might have done the same, move a little bit to the side, leave just enough room and hope that the guy behind me isn't a lunatic that tries to go through it. I mean, you see it enough in the pro races, tdf, where they obviously deviate from their sprint line. But props to you for hitting the brakes, it's the sensible thing to do, I wouldn't want to feed the riders that tried to go through a gap like that and crashed horribly.
lovell will be there 2022!
I guess they were serious about their event name. “Into the Lions Den” where they pick who they eat and for sure gonna get full. If they only allowed you to bring your WHOLE team too man!
Props to Jeff for pushing almost 1300w still thinking straight at that sprint! If that was me..
Jezuz take the wheel please.
😆😆🤘
I swear to God u are the real champ😍
"If you ain't first your last" I guess that guy didn't get your memo on shake and bake. As for legion, love the intentions and effort, if the racing sucks, don't go.
5:40 leaf in the derailleur
the moment he looked back you had to go right and jump between them. you see
if they try to bump you then you reach over toward both and shove them into the
barriers while riding through, lol. Ohh those old dirty tricks boys like to play.
Fun to listen to the thought process with the actual footage happening. That $4K was definitely yours. Frankly, narrowing down the finish like that doesn't help things and limits opportunities at the line.
Great commentary as always...I watched another video the day after and saw when you got squeezed with 10 to go...Only I didn't realize it was YOU! Sucks, but great nonetheless
miami with that don pan sprint
kudos for giving the guy in gray some props for keeping his line
Oh man, that was a HARD PINCH!!!
I saw that pinch move in the Vegan Cyclist's video the other day, and my heart skipped several beats! Glad you kept it upright!
@Jeff, unless I'm mistaken, I don't see your name on the results sheet. Am I wrong?
Jeff in pro sprints don’t you see quite a lot of line deviations in the final 100-200 meters? However I did note the rider check over his shoulder and intentionally move over to close the lane.
It's about the intention. His deviation was subtle but the look back tells me it was to intentionally block me from passing.
Dbags from Miami? Shockerrrr
Jeff can you please go into how the pro thing works in cycling..looks like it’s amateurs cycling for a check but there was also an amateur race before the pro race? How’s that work in cycling?
Legion is a conti team (they pay their riders, Pro, 3 steps below world tour), teams like Mike's Bikes are domestic elite teams (Don't pay their riders directly, amateurs, typically have sponsors for equipment). The "Pro" race was a P/1/2 race, Pro (legion), Cat 1 (Jeff, top Amateur), and Cat 2 (next level down Am). The Open race was basically just everyone else.
@@kr7epj4x The open race was self-identified categories, 1-3, all age groups and genders. Mostly, it was the people who didn't or couldn't get invited to the pro race. There were no prizes nor primes.
is it worse etiquette if you still went for the pass on that 4k prime?
what’s are you using to display the real time data on the screen??
I truly enjoy cycling but these people are why i don't call myself a cyclist. Unreal. The speed. Amazing videos. Thanks.
How does it work with non-sanctioned events? In triathlon, if I race in an un-sanctioned event, I'm to loose my racing license.
What! That is ridiculous!
You just wont earn any credit(UCI/USA Cycling points ) for winning the unsanctioned events. and the rules are created by promoters. Also, the insurance works differently as the USA cycling insurance doesnt cover the event.
Lessons learned eh? Unsanctioned races = unsanctioned riding haha. Great stuff man keep it up.
8:50 OMG... I'm dropping out of that point 🤓😎🤓.
clicked this timestamp not knowing what to expect and LOL
Not cool of that dude for pinning you
Woowzer this is something I've never seen before. Looks crazy...is it a constant pedal to the metal race?? And looks dangerous
We want the fixie video✨✨
we are sitting on zoom working on it right now!
That leaf on the deraliour was definetly a aero disadvantage