SO CONFUSED Screen Printing Puff Ink | Troubleshooting
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
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This week I started out experimenting and ended up troubleshooting Screen Printing Puff Ink. Watch to and give insight as to why this is happening when I print on t-shirts. #screenprinting #theprintlife
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Cam Earven:
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1- Make the puff mixture in the consistency that you think is convenient or how much you want the puff to inflate. 2 - prepare a second screen with the same positive register and in the second add the color you need at the end. 3 - Give 2 puff passes and pre-dry a little. 4 - add the color on the second screen and give it 1 pass of paint without the puff and pass it through the oven that will help you that the puff does not burst and will be perfect without pores and without those imperfections it worked very well for me, I hope it works like me and I apologize if I wrote wrong I am from Mexico I don't know much English but Google helps me translate blessings and greetings.
Hey Print Life, I believe your problem is the material you are using. You are needing a denser material that is heavier than a sweatshirt and more like a fleece. Because the shirts and sweatshirts are more of a flimsier material than the thicker fleece type garments that will hold up under the heat and will not shrink up and roll on you. That may be your problem with the lines because the material is lighter and the ink soaks into the shirt MORE than letting it sit on top of heavier material. Plus 10% additive is good! Let me know if you try that and it works for you! John S.
Do u know any companies that do puff print
@@swak109 I dont personally but puff print is pretty hard to do iand some companies wont attempt it. You just have to call around and see if they'll do it!
@@NotAnInternetPornStar thanks will do!
Use a base under on a 230 mesh same color as puff
Base flash puff on top
@@petero9732that’s what I do, I do from 160 to 230 depending on the garment an detail then I do a 110 on puff
I print Puff with:
40T screen mesh (100 for US)
30% Ink - 70% Puff additive (Sericol - Fuji / Squared Puff ) [Sericol also has a 70% Ink - 30% puff (Rounded Puff)]
Print flash print (with caution: distance - time )
Cure slower with bigger distance of heat - fabric
Last but not least...
I ve noticed the same problem happens to me when I print on fabric that is not 100% cotton, on shitty dyed fabrics or fabrics with moisture
in these cases I print an underbase to be sure.
(But this option has a disadvantage...the heat of flashing will slow you down on long runs.)
When I print on a 100% good cotton the job is sooooo easy with no problems and no underbase
Peace
Good tips I will double check all.
Fleece is the best fabric for puff
i did not see that you mentioned the underbase here, before i commented...
Could you provide a link to your puff additive pls?
@@lolnty7408 If you are talking to me...I use FujiFilm OP417 Expanding Base
In order to solve the ripling effect : You first can print a non puff underbase of the same color as the puff. This will prevent the puff from going into the garment and cause a negative embossing.
Gottcha. I will try and report back in another video
It just shows how much passion you have ! To get it done right!
I'm a screen print artist and we printed with puff years ago and we had the same problem.
What we did is to break up the line with a halftone or some kind of pattern that helps keep
the line from buckling up. It also gives a nice effect.
The name of this show is pretty much how it is for a screen printer. I hated those jobs were something is just not right and you end up spending the whole day on trying to fix. Good learning process tho. You’ll figure it out, I hate working with puff additive, I probably had the same issue just didn’t notice.
Keeping it is real as I can. One idiodic problem after another.
Thanks for letting me know I'm not the only one who struggles. Love your channel!
Thank you for doing this so we dont have to :D Great video!
Welcome
We just did 300 sweatshirts with puff print. It’s definitely hard to get the consistency.
With those lines. Try to do 80% transparency. I think it’s too much ink on the fabric. It is pulling the fabric together.
We did on 110 mesh. However to do the dark fabrics we ended up getting a better result with a puff underBase. 3-5 second flash, and then print another puff on top.
We use Wilflex nu puff base
And the drying is just another problem. Just have to try until you get it right.
I always avoid long or big artwork on t shirts. We only offer puff on sweats.
Another trick that you can try is to put the t shirt to the drier before printing, to remove the moisture. This has proven made the print better in our case.
Good luck.
Nice thanks for the tips. I'm gonna try all this stuff and report back.
Michael Susanto what is the difference between puff base and puff additive? Common sense tells me the base doesn’t puff but the additive will work better if you use that base?!?!
Thanks!
:)
We did a few hundred hoodies also and the logo has creases. Is that normal for puff print? The text came out good. Just the logo looks bad.
I'm sure you know by now what the problem was since this video was made 2 years ago. But it's been my experience when working with puff and doing a print, flash print that you can not have puff in the first screen and then flash and re hit it. The heat from the flash will ruin it. Print the under base in this case the black without puff then the second screen have your puff in it mixed with black also. Your product should come out perfect every time. You used a 60 mesh which lays a ton of ink and isn't really cost efficient. Try using a 110 without puff in your first screen 140,160 or 158 depending on what you have available... as your second screen, it really all depends on the look that your going for. Mesh count is very important in this process.
Hi Cam, it might just be that the upper part of the print gets longer when it puffs.Since the bottom of the print that touches the shirt sticks to the fabric, it cannot expand. So you have basically created a curved strip with the bulge on the top side and you try to put it on a flat surface.
I think you are correct in that.
@@ThePrintLife Maybe Bend the print as it cures somehow, like draping it over a curved barrel.
Print it through a 160 screen with Rutland puff additive. Use an underbase if needed
I have been screen printing for about 4 mos. also got into DTG, vinyl & sublimation (hey! - I get bored). I am about to start play with the puff additive, so I appreciate this video.... also looking forward to more website (wordpress vids). Keep the rubber down.
Call the puff additive manufacturer and see what they recommend. Send them the photos of the prints and explain what’s happening. Maybe there are specific garments that puff better than others.
I was printing Gildan TriBlend tees and they weren’t printing well. I put a Bella Canvas TriBlend on the press and it took the ink a lot better than the Gildan. Much smoother and opaque.
Gottcha. I did seem to be a fabric issue to some degree. I tried printing the horizontal line by itself. Mostly on gildans and the same thing kept happening.
@@ThePrintLife if it is a fabric issue then creating an underbase should solve the problem
Excellent video . I am printer and i had that issue as well drove me crazy . Printing Puff involves many things . Number 1 the garment . In order to have a nice Puff the garment have to have 100% cotton tick garment . Number 2 the density of the ink I usually modify my puff ink at 15% tickeneer . Number 3 temperature all dependends of your machines and dryer .
Maybe try a base under so that it stacks on that instead of the shirt.
Take an old t-shirt, roll it, put it on the dryer belt and place the one that needs to be cured on top of it (so the roll is under the print, lengthwise). I think your t-shirts, on their own, are "sagging" which creates a well in the print area, thus distorting the long straight lines.
Interesting, that is actually a good idea. Worth trying for sure. Your the man.
Please keep on trying never cut the flops amazing content to learn
Sorry that's happening dude, wish I had input for you but I'm new to this printing and am learning as much as possible. East Mesa here!🤘
All good thanks for dropping a line either way. You da man.
Try printing a 100% puff under base, flash, and regular ink on top. My coworker had some good luck with this, not the same issue as you're having. He was just experimenting. Also, my first thought is the garment is getting too hot. I would try running it through fast at a slightly lower temperature twice.
Nice will try it on the next one. Thank ya for the advice and for taking the time to comment. Very cool
I can't thank you enough for this video!
We have a potential puff job out there that's been in the back and forth stage for far too long.
If we we're to have the problems you're having on a production run, things would likely be flying across the shop!
I think I'm going to do some low stress experimentation beforehand.
Try printing on transfer paper and see if it puffs correctly. If it does then it is the fabric, if not, then it is in the mixture of the ink and puff needing to be mixed together better and cured slower.
I would try laying down less ink, just let the puff do its thing.
Maybe even going up to a 110 like someone previously mentioned.
Good luck!
Will take into my next video. Thank ya for dropping a comment. Keep dropping in and I'll keep posting my failures.
id say either flash a base to prevent the fabric from reacting to the puff in the dryer and/or speeding up the dryer speed with different temps.
cant remember where but i read that the puff sometimes (depending on manufacturer) reduces the curing time/temp.
It dose it needs to hit 315 for a short time then get out of the tunnel.
I used to smash it into the fabric like normal, even on a Gildan hoodie blend, then flash lightly and lay a lighter layer ontop. Minimum of 150 mesh, didn't use anything lower.
My thoughts are perhaps it is the fabric? Run it through the drier first? Or try curing with the flash and move the flash around to cure. That way you can actually watch it puff and maybe see what's happening when it fails. Perhaps too much ink is drawing the fabric in when it puffs? Good luck buddy
At first my thoughts were that it simply wasn't mixed all the way, I've seen that happen but in reverse, it was a flat print and puff got added by mistake and basically did that. Another note, I use a 110 mesh from murakami.
We also print on top of a flat underbase.
A friend of mine suggested lowering your heat.
great video cam for puff i use 50 50 on a 110 mesh i use a heat gun for curing on puff comes out good thks for sharing cam
I bet the heat gun is perfect.
Hey, your videos are the best, Ive learned so much from them. Im just interested on how do you price it like how much is for one print and stuff, would love if you could make a video about it! Your doing great work!
What I'm about to say is not a business owner way of thinking but something I was think of recently is cost to produce plus hourly. Find your total cost to produce the job add you hourly fee based on estimated production times. As you get fast increase you hourly fee.
@@ThePrintLife Thanks, keep doing what you do, Im always happy to see a notification that you uploaded something
@@ThePrintLife I dig that hourly seems to be the only thing I don't charge smh 😥 damn sweatshop over here and it's California!!
I've tried the Total Ink Solutions brand. Tried everything with temp and belt speed adjustments to make sure it didn't get too hot. It puffed great but kept straight up peeling off the shirt if you scratched at it.
i got that stuff too.. dont like it. same issues.
Hey Cam, try to print on a pice of fabric that doesn't stretch, see what happens. I think that the puffing process is stretching the material and the material is fighting back.
Sweet. I will try and report back. Your the best.
...your diligence is a beast! ok... crazy idea... what about putting breaks in the line that would allow it to puff up... sort of like -------- -------- ------- ------- where you design in blank spaces... the hypothesis is that the ink will rise up and touch …
ik this is 3 years old but its literally only one simple problem. You need to pre press your tees so there is no moisture. The effect works by evaporating the moisture out the plastisol and puffs but there is underlying moisture in the blank so it causes inconsistences and wrinkles. I can see all the tees you tried on were all wrinkled and werent pre pressed. Quite silly and overlooked but im pretty positive that is your problem. I know from personal mistake i felt so stupid afterward. hope this helps
Great video Cam. Even though you're having problems with it, it still looks awesome. Making me want to give that a try later on.
Love this video! I’ll come and clean. I want to have a printing experience. It’s so much to learn.
I use mainly Wilflex and I was having issues with Nu Puff until I started using it as an underbase then just printing color on top. I got better results that way.... Wilflex also has a Flexi Puff but I have not been able to find it in a Qt.... A gallon is too much for me to buy just to test
What if you use a piece of cardboard inside the shirt to help keep it taught while it goes into the dryer. Maybe those small little wrinkles weigh the garment down just enough. Just thinking outside the box.
I am thinking its the fabric that the garments are made from, you’ve pulled so many test prints with this one, so that’s why I am thinking 🤔 if it’s not the ink it’s got to be the fabric. Good luck and god bless brother, I really wish I could help you out on this one.
Thanks man that is my conclusion as well.
Old school problem we would give an extra coat of emulsion to thicken the stencil, add extra burn time to compensate, then with an extra quarter's width of off contact, print flash print, flashing to just barely flash to stack to get an extra amount, then run low and slow through the dryer. Works fo hd, gel, hd gel (don't print flash print gel or hd gel), crackle, and puff . That was the old school method before phalate free ink, haven't done it in a while.
I think the fact that the shirt has natural rinkles is the issue.. I would try the wrap the shirt around some sort of block to try and keep the material as absolutely flat as possible around the design without stretching it.
the only thing that I could see, was maybe with the consistency of the heat, it seemed like the areas where it wasn't puffed evenly had to do with the placement of the letters, maybe it being a forced air dryer, the slight variance of air flow in those sections caused the difference in puff? You mentioned you tried printing just the line, did it have the variances in the same places?
mainly ask because when you ran it through the dryer vertically (on the sleeve) it seemed different.
Only other idea I could think of, would be changes in EOM thinkmess? doubt it though, especially with how much that showed up.
Interesting. If that turned out to be the fix I would shit.
@@ThePrintLife ive seen other puff videos and they use a press to do it
Did you ever figure it out?
Im trying to find the article on puff, the manufacturer said to halftone the print to minimize the shirt puckering. It will still expand to make it look solid but without distorting the shirt.
I think the problem might be the t-shirt slightly sticking on the mesh when you do a pull and lift screen. Maybe try getting the shirt to stick to the table better, if the shirt doesn't stick to the screen you will get a more even distribution. hope that helps
Gotcha. Ill give it a shot.
@@ThePrintLife when working on a press the bed would have suction holes on the bed to stop this happening. Maybe try tack spray.
The main problem is by the fabric I think. And by the design second. The vertical fibers are more rigid than the horizontal fibers and when the colour try to puff this rigidity/stifness of the fabric makes it like this. Also I suspect something else that I'd like you to try. Try and print with white puff ink or other colour than black and see if you have the same result. I'm afraid that the black colour absorbs more heat that it should be and perhaps you need to lower your temp. Also I'd try to pre heat the fabric take the moisture out make it less elastic and lower the shrinkness of the fabric perhaps with this way the inconsistency on the puff is less than before.
Gotcha. I did drop the temps super low started at 270 and worked my way up. But I will start again whith white, pre heat and go from there.
Great idea.
@@ThePrintLife I'd like to know what was the result and if that was the solution. Cheers!
@@geozerogr I will include the white in the follow up video.
Try to add a very thin layer underbase using the same ink without the puff additive then the ink and puff mixture on top. Do it wet on wet.
Hi Cam ! I always wondered what program was used on your computer (order/moke-up/film output). This should save you a lot of time. Thanks for your vids, they challenge me every day ! (An anatol friend ;) )
Hi , I can provide some insight to what may be happening here. Most of the puffing products are designed to react at a set temperature and can be selected based on the curing Temperatures of the raw materials that make up your plastisol inks. The trend is to cure plastisol inks at lower Temps to lower the dye migration issues....The puffing reaction must fully expand before the plastisol begins cure. And the plastisol inks with the highest elongation will allow for a very even and smooth expansion. I hope this helps....
Hmm the hoodie sleeve was run through vertically? Maybe that helped a little . Might be worth a try that way with less % additive like following samples .
I also think if you lay down a white base to get in to the fabric then lay your black puff on top your lines would be nice and smooth
I got nothing on that one.. crazy how not one letter seemed to be affected. that kills a bunch of thoughts for why. On a brighter note I was like number 50 and that 1 hater still hasn't showed up. Ice Cube Good Day.
They are here, lurking, snarling, hating them selves for watching this unkempt stoner looking dude on CZcams, I mean clearly he dont know shit. Matter of fact fuck that guy. Thank god we ain't him am I right.
Maybe try adding additives. Possibly adding a curing agent and or flexible additive? Another idea that comes to mind is to use 2 screens with 2 different inks. Screen 1 to lay down a layer of plain plastisol, flash then lay down puff ink using screen 2 and cure. BTW what happens if you heat press the failed prints using low pressure?
Next one I will try that as well.
Lay a small light flush 1st heated then add the heavy coat of puff
Hi Cam. Greate Video.
did you tried ironing it? we do it 160° celsius 20 seconds. here is diferent, i think, we use the puff in water base inks.
also i think placing a underbase with regular ink and then the puff on top of the base works too.
I'm a newb to screen printing, but would it be possible to put an underbase of normal ink below, the puff, flash it then put the puff on top of the other ink? It might keep the ink from sinking into the garment, and also allow it to shrink/grow more freely... Totally a guess, but i like problem solving, and this is an interesting scenario... Keep us posted what worked please :-)
that’s a good idea
what if you got some ridged silicone tiles to print the Garments on top of? That way, you could transfer it to the dryer without there being any movement in the garment, there for allowing the ink to rise before the tension is lost? 😅
Maybe if you use a 5 inch squeegee and pull to the side instead off up? It may be easier to control the pressure.
Nice, I cut that entire scene out for time, tried it didnt help either. Nice thinking though we are in the same page. Thanks for commenting you are the best.
Yo Cam! Try:
110 mesh count.
10% additive. (Don't go over 10%!!!)
3 passes then flash.
3 passes then cure. same temp as usual but speed up the belt so it comes out JUST as the puff peaks.
if you let it stay in the conveyor dryer longer ANY longer than when the puff peaks it'll IMMEDIATELY start to go right back down.
If you tried that and judging from the vid you probably tried that scenario. Switch puff additive companies...
Have you tried "Union Ink" puff???
Sweet I did try most, I was using union puff. Next I'm gonna get the wilflex base and try that.
How durable is the puff printing ? (How many washes until it gets out of shape)
holy shit. Ive been researching the same problem all week.
I had a similar issue at my shop I found turning the forced air off solve the problem
Gottcha looking into it for the next vid.
Maybe someone mentioned this already or I missed something. Why are you print flash printing puff? Pretty sure that's a big no-no. If you need a base, use a regular plastisol as the base then print the puff on top. Puff is delicate and sensitive to pressure after being printed especially after heat. Should always be run as last color if possible.
I was trying every combination. I tried everything I could think of.
Like I have to do when I do HTV & DTF Tees, have you 'TRIED' PRE-pressing your garment to get rid of excess moisture BEFORE you print on it? This makes all the difference in the world, when im applying Puff Print HTV to garments.
It seemed as though the lines puffed much better on the sleeve. Maybe send prints in sideways. Curious I Am!
For beginners, what are materials used to produce a puff on tshirt? Machines used and Inks
Add a base under in keeps the shirt from puckering as much. During those long lines
Thanks for sharing
Sir try to press the print in fusing machine facing down with less pressure then normal
It gives equal puff hieght every time
Works for me always
Bhai main plastisol mai 30% puff mix kartahu or heat press machine se hi kam kartahu lekin height zyada nhi hota..
Bhai kuch solution do plz..
110 two hits medium pressure 5 -10 percent should be good and less heat just enough heat for it to puff and thats it!!! or will collapse. good luck bro
Try printing the lines with raster dots instead of solid lines.
i would try a print in a piece of transfer paper to eliminate the fabric factor
Thanks a lot 🙏
Much support from 🇿🇦 ZAR- Durban Rich Future by DSK Clothing ❤
Cam try one screen with mix of the puff and the ink and then other screen with the black ink . but don't flash the puff just go right to the next screen and then flash it
wondering, maybe, could it be, nothing to do with the puff but the difference of the tissu itself before and after drying??
Try to "extra dry" the T shirt before you screen print the Outtarespect, and dry it again.
its the type of material the shirt is, and the direction of the weave. Makes long pieces pucker and it makes them fall in places on large pieces.
Have you considered a wider space between the lines and the letters?
I am thinking it's shrinkage.? Because it's such a long line there is a certain amount of water in the ink and as it dries its shrinking and pulling in the garment a little,. That's why it's only noticeable on the longer lines... But this is just an hypothesis.
Im having the same issue..you ever figure out how to fix the problem
Here's an idea for you I was watching your video on the line that you're training. can you put some small. Line in the vellum to do like break break up that line but make the line very small so when the Puffs .Puffs out It well combined in to one.this is just an idea I haven't tried it .
I bet that would work. Thanks for the tip. You rule.
I know this can be tricky. What's your EOM? If you had super thick emulsion, like 6 over 6, you could lay down a larger and smother deposit of ink. just a thought.... maybe 2 years too late.
check your heating coils inside your heater
Great information thanks !!
Will it do it with it still on the pallet. I'm thinking the puff is shrinking or stretching the shirt and causing the wrinkles. What if you cure the shirt on the pallet with holes in it or find a way to keep it stretched while going under the conveyor
Interestingly enough it did not on pallet, oh my goodness I wonder if I could flash to puff. Dude if that is the fix im out, Nothing is worse than when you don't think of the obvious.
@@ThePrintLife yeah I believe that's what ended up doing when i was playing with puff. Puff it under the flesh and cure it on the belt. I was adding so much it would crack. I was just seeing what happens to play around with it
I use puff additive all the time(don't ask) I have found Unions to be better then whatever ryonet sells... wilflex I think. Maybe the additive your using is bunk. Good luck !
Good point. Whats confusing is how the letters would puff great. Just that damn long line. Thanks for the tips your the best.
Yo Camsomething telling me to redo your screen try a larger mesh make sure the tension is completely even across the ecreen. it seems the lines keep happening in the same spot.
I did puff not too long ago, I don't remember the exact formula that was used, as I'm not the ink mixer, I feel like it was 10% maybe? to regular legacy white, luckily it was a 1 of 1 sample for a guy so not a full run, but it was a hoodie with a huge back design with lots of lines and hit flash hit worked after the ink tech realized they forgot to carry a 1 somewhere in their formula. I wonder if maybe your additive isn't mixing as much with the ink and the sink areas are caused by some ink that has a lower puff to ink ratio thank the whole? If you still have issues I'll see about getting the ink specs and details from the program used.
I think it was 110 mesh, semi high off contact and about 15 seconds with a blackflash about an inch and a half above the pallet.
love your videos our printer is arrogant so I want to kicknhim out I wMt to learn about hi density printing. is cylicone ink sisame as hi density what's the difference between the two?
Dope video as always, I was wondering what software you use to manage orders etc.
That is the beta version of The Print Life Shop Managment Software. Available to shops in the US some time next month.
I love puff print so much
I'm just starting and dont have any equipment as of yet, but I am mechanically inclined by nature. The coil heater in the conveyor unit is set up the same as the flash dryer. So the lines you were having trouble with may have been overheated by the coils (long wise) by the lines sinking. Try: turning the shirt/design by 90 degrees before placing it on the conveyor. Thus your print will be going in sideways. If overheating is the issue. Have you tried this yet? Let me know if it works as I would like to include puffy paint on some of my products, and/or if the customer requests puffy. Awesome/helpful vids! Sub'd too.
Hi Cam,
first of all: Greetings from Frankfurt, Germany. Haven't watched all Videos yet but working myself through the stuff to learn and experiment more and more. Just spotted something at 6:22
What are you wearing? Is that a special kind of glasses? Or a little shield on the side of your hat?
Keep on making these videos. they are great. Regards, Flo
Oh, just answered it myself. It's your mobile camera!
Thanks for your video bro
Maybe a regular ink base, flash, then puff
Will try on the next one. You rule. Thanks for commenting, and I teracting in general it means allot.
Please figure it out so I don’t have to when I get there Lol. Thanks for all you do.
Long live GiGi ! Cam’s OK too I guess...🧐
She is the real star.
I think you shouldn't use that bubble ink from the start. It seems that the bubble ink hardens and shrinks the fibers, but the ink in the letters affects the fibers around it, so the top and bottom straight lines are broken. Why don't you make a thin shape with Sol Ink first and use bubble ink on it?
It is entirely my personal opinion. I don't know if it will help, but think seriously and leave feedback. -From your CZcams fans
That what I though as well, so I tried printing the line by itself no letter and the same thing happened? maybe a base would help, I have never had to consider basing puff before. I wonder if it is the thin viscosity of black ink?
Yes, I think it may be a good idea to grab the fibers in the area you want to print thin with black sol Ink.
Oh, I've tested only lettering in the past(repeat bubble ink 2-3 times on t-shirt with 110mesh), and it seems to be quite good even though I added only 5-10%. So I think using a little bit of additives and putting the ink up to two or three times over and over will give you a pretty good result too. I cheer for you.!
Out of curiosity, did you run the sweatshirts through sideways? I have wanted to try puff, but just haven't had the opportunity myself.
Yes in the sleeves I did. I have never had this problem come up before I'm at a loss.
What type of tip are you using on your drill to mix your ink
It a paint mixer from home depot. I saw one dude cut the tip of a bit paddle bit I'm gonna do that, easier to clean.
The Print Life hey bud. What do you mean about cutting the top? I slowed my drill way down cause I read that the mixing bit causes so much friction and heat that it can partially cure the ink. Seems in likely but the ink seems to clear the screen easier since I slowed it down.
Also, try to get in touch with Lon Winters over at graphic elephants...dude knows his poo on additives! Good luck brother!
:)
He means cut the tip of the bit so that you don’t drill through the container. (Make it unto a flat paddle)
I use puff Vinyl. More consistent with an easier process. I use screen print for the rest.
You Got A New Dryer
We have had it for about 6 months, I love that thing
@@ThePrintLife so I should get a heat gun like how am just starting out ?