Why this British crossroads was so dangerous
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- čas přidán 26. 04. 2020
- UPDATE: The crossroads has now been fixed! web.archive.org/web/202302102... • Ipley Cross, in the middle of the New Forest, is one of the most dangerous road junctions in Britain. Why? • Thanks to Bez, whoever you are: their definitive article on this junction is here: singletrackworld.com/2018/01/...
Edited by Michelle Martin / mrsmmartin
Graphics by Mat Hill mat-hill.xyz
ADDITIONAL SOURCES:
www.advertiserandtimes.co.uk/...
The UK government's Traffic Signs Manual, chapter 6, 15.18.2
🟥 MORE FROM TOM: www.tomscott.com/
(you can find contact details and social links there too)
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Update, January 2022: the crossroads has been fixed, as so many folks hoped for, by turning one of the two approach roads and making a staggered junction. Accordingly, I've changed the title of the video to past tense!
Think it's worthy of another video Tom, could now be called the most expensive section of road in the UK. Re-foresting the original few hundred metres and creating the new offset which is all of 100m cost somewhere over £400,000 and there were suggestions that it could have been nearer £500,000 and took 4mths after they unexpectedly discovered that New Forest subsoil lay beneath the New Forest - who'd have thought it.
Let's gooooooo! Glad to know the world is getting a bit safer, one crossroad at a time!
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the page won't load :(
That's super cool
"why is this intersection so dangerous" *guy immediately flies past a stop sign*
you couldn't buy better footage to show the point
@@AbridgedAnime i honestly thought that was fixed
The MF09LBZ dude? Kinda bold to break the law with people filming it. And looking straight into the camera.
it just needs speedbumps so people who don't bother to slow down will bump their head into the roof
...and multiple cyclists "happened by"
Why does Tom Scott always sound like he's not angry he's just disappointed in you?
Because he's disappointed in the whole species
I know, that's why each of his words stuck like my parent's scolding
@@jbellfield worse @ 0:14
He's British
Yoav Shati beat me to it
The fact that multiple cyclists went by and multiple drivers didn't stop during the recording of this short video gave Tom's words even more gravitas.
Gravity I'd say
@@ReidTheRulesGuy how can words "have gravity"?!
Gravitas, -atis f. is a latin loanword and means dignity or seriousness.
@@nikitademodov3446 how can a situation have gravity?
@@nikitademodov3446 Gravity
2. extreme or alarming importance; seriousness.
People getting worked up about grammar rather than people running stop signs into potential bikers
The solution is obviously a massive pair of ramps, so you can jump over the intersection. It'd be exciting, the risk of collision is zero by the laws of kinematics and I can absolutely totally not see any downsides to this approach.
I support this road building project.
this is the jeremy clarkson approach.
The fact that you cannot see any downside is probably why you are not employed as a road/route planner.
@@Kyrelelthe reason that you need to shut up is that this is obviously sarcasm
@@Kyrelel Those using the ramp would fly right over the heads of those going underneath, just like how the joke flew right over yours
Title: "Why This British Crossroads Is So Dangerous"
0:13 [car runs stop sign] well, guess we answered that, thanks for joining us
Exactly
Well spotted guys
Why don't they stop?
@@Rainaman- Because they're twats in a hurry.
@@Rainaman- humans are dumb. I can't wait for full autopilot to be polished.
The amount of people who ran the stop sign in the background is astounding
Addapp crazy... do they have tickets camera with fins in the Uk?
I live not too far from this place (which was weird seeing Tom Scott monologue outside a place you frequently drive past 🤣) but from how drivers are in this part of the New Forest, I’d assume it’s because people don’t bother to stop. They just assume it’s clear and carry on as if it doesn’t apply to them because ‘they didn’t see anything’. A silly thing to assume when it can literally endanger lives but some people are really selfish and don’t want to waste time stopping 😓
I feel like in America we are VERY strict on our stop signs. Just blowing through the stop sign seems so reckless. But maybe British drivers are different?!
Ryan Kerns nah, nobody comes to a complete stop, everybody just rolls right through them.
9 in 4 minutes
I counted 6 cars that rolled through the stop sign - three going straight on without slowing down!
0:15 - dark blue salloon
1:28: dark grey (?) car
2:15 silver van (turning left)
2:48: Dark blue minivan (slows down but doesn't stop)
3:25: Silver car rolls through
3:33 - Red car turns left without stopping
Well, to be fair, it’s Britain. Turning left without stopping would be like turning right without stopping here in the US.
@@talongreenlee7704 yes but no. in the US you still need to make a full stop at a stop sign, most people here stop fully no matter what. The worst thing that happens is a rolling stop but rarely do you witness someone blowing past a stop sign. (I'm not saying it doesn't happen, it most certainly does, but not as often as I just witnessed in that video)
@@PotterPlaysGaming oh, well I’m from Michigan, and here we have something called the “Michigan rolling stop” because nobody actually stops fully for stop signs.
@@talongreenlee7704 Wow, I can’t speak for everyone here in Pennsylvania but growing up in a small town, I’ve rarely seen people run stop signs or red lights. I find cities to be the most dangerous though. Pittsburgh is awful when it comes to drivers 😂
@@PotterPlaysGaming I mean, they’re not running red lights. It’s mostly at stop signs or if they’re turning right on red, and they slow down, they just don’t come to a *complete* stop.
"this is certainly a contender"
*Bloke passing by without stopping*
good spot
I scrolled down for the comments on that after replaying it once to make sure I had not imagined it.
I saw at least five cars not stop.
Darwin contender for the brain dead.
I don't get how EVERYONE keeps blaming the drivers. OK, we know they're wrong as per law, then what? you're gonna sacrifice your life because of other's mistake? Cyclists' death isn't due to "reckless drivers" and "innocent cyclists". They're both reckless
01:25 Driver fails to stop. 02:14 Driver fails to stop. 00:14 Driver fails to stop. Average that out and this place is positively lethal
Should instantly lose your license for doing something like that
Okay, they clearly looked.
That and every single one of them is on the wrong side of the road!
If there was a camera at the intersection that could fine every driver that failed to stop 100 pounds, the whole system and the pavement redesign would pay for itself in mere moments considering how many people just whizz through
@@cheekypepsi8772 The whole video makes the argument that just looking isn't enough.
"Anyone‘s safety shouldn’t rely on faith in human nature" chillingly true.
1:25 a driver did exactly what you were explaining - failed to stop at the stop sign!
Don't think there's any "failure" here... That suggests to me that they made an attempt to succeed, which I think it's clear there wasn't...
"Failure" is the language the police use (such as "failed to stop for police"), specifically to not imply anything about drivers' intentions. Whether you refused to stop or just didn't see the police asking you to (an issue in itself), you didn't stop. It's about *failing* to meet your obligations rather than failing an attempt.
But yes, there was definitely no attempt made there!
@@thomasm123 semantics
You missed the car at 15 seconds!
More than one… MANY more!
Just as before the "failed to stop" is said, car indeed does not stop in the background
I was just about to Comment that Lmao.
Canned_gull
That car was a paid actor smh
I actually lost count of the amount of people not stopping...
his timing is always amazing.
Haha, the op got there before I did!
"This is the most dangerous crossing"
*Car immediately ignores stop sign*
4 way stops are terrible even at right angles. This intersection needs a traffic circle. That would force both driver and bike rider to watch for other vehicles as they anticipate their place in the queue through the circle. Additionally, the 4 way stop could be eliminated as all entrances to the circle would be yields. I can't believe they haven't already installed one, if the intersection is truly so dangerous.
@@davezad This is not a 4-way stop. There are no 4-way stops in Europe.
@@davezad Like Tom said, it's a conservation area. Least disruptive solution is staggered intersection but like always people value money more than human life.
@@stensoft What about in England?
@@illuminati.official The UK may no longer be a part of the EU, a *political* union, but it has always been a part of Europe, a *geographical* region. Read a bit more carefully next time.
Gotta “love” how that several motorists blew right through that stop sign as Tom was recording.
I love how he mentions that the roadwork changes costing 100k GBP is one of the reasons they won't do it and they end up doing it for 500k.
And it's because of him, this video, that they did it!
@@greatPretender79 the plans for it existed before his video though
This is true
@@kennymuller3115 the plans, not the execution. His video brought publicity to it, and was used in the local council meeting to get the funding
Signs: *STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP*
Driver: It's not like there's anything telling me to stop
To play devil's advocate, there is a stop sign, but imagine if you had to drive on that road to and from work every day and having to waste time stopping for no reason.
The problem is that the driver's view is unimpeded so they can cheat if they *think* the road is clear.
@@Intrspace And when you scatter someone's brains down the road that extra 10 seconds you save every day will definitely have been worth it. As Tom said in the video, stop signs are very rare in the UK. That means it has a reason to be there, and ignoring it makes you an idiot.
@@Intrspace
Assuming you waste ~10 seconds stopping at the sign, in a year you will have wasted just above two hours. That's 1/8766th of a year. Is that really so bad?
@@Intrspace Imagine following the most basic traffic law, stop when signalled to stop for the safety of those around you. This video proves that this is not a very busy road but it certainly isn't the quietest either. It doesn't take much time to come to a stop. The least that can be done is to perform a rolling stop (popular in the US), still not legal but it would at least slow you down enough to view your surroundings and reduce injury in the event of a collision. I can't imagine running a stop sign DAILY because I don't feel like stopping. It is inexcusable to proceed through a stop sign without at least slowing your speed.
The amout of cars failing to stop while filming this was too damn high.
They were probably locals who knew the story and move their head to watch out for cyclists and cars. If you check your blind spot, the risk are extremely low since the visibility is good.
I like how no one's talking about the actual solution... stop giving the cyclist the right of way. Add a stop sign on their end too, and add a sign to thoroughly check for vehicles/cyclists on both ends. Then at least that way only cyclists that also don't follow the law can get hit in that very specific situation. It's as if the cars in this are like trains, they are failing to stop, for whatever reason, and they can kill others. Their solution is to make the trains more aware when it should just be to ensure the people know a train is coming by and may not stop.
@@rewardilicious blame the victims. Good idea. Cyclist should not have to stop because cars are not following the law. Always blame it on the cyclist or reduce it to a second-tier véhicule that should not impeed whatsoever on cars. Lame solution for motorist who aren't able to follow sign or at least check if no one's coming. Ridiculous
@@rewardilicious cars don’t have the right of way on roads. Cyclists have equal rights. When on a major road, cyclists have complete right of way over any cars coming from minor roads to the side. This is 100% the drivers fault for breaking the law and failing to stop at a stop sign.
Comparing cars and trains makes no sense. You have advanced warning of trains, and they come through rarely. You may say that cars are slower, so you can see them from farther, meaning that the cyclists have vision and a safe way to know when to stop. But in this case, that's a moot point, because the cyclists can't see the cars coming if they look straight ahead.
Should the cyclist road have a stop sign too? People don't obey stop signs if they don't see anyone, it's just the same problem except you can blame someone else. That doesn't solve the terrible intersection.
You can't give cars the right of way on an intersection with cyclists because it's dangerous for the cyclists, and a more complicated system such as alternating cars and cyclists requires a light.
This precise 'constant relative bearing' situation is a known danger in aviation, specifically 'general aviation' where aircraft don't typically have any automated avoidance systems. Our eyes are evolved to detect quick movement in our peripheral vision, so apparently stationary objects can easily go by unnoticed.
I hadn't thought of that! Even without the blind spot they would not be eye catching if moving at the right speed to appear stationary!
Works well even on the water. If it ain't movin, ya got to change something..speed, direction..
I always wondered why staggered junctions were so commonplace along the farmlands of where I grew up in Pennsylvania. Now it makes sense, because they too had off-kilter angles.
As an American who deals with stop signs every day, I'll admit to a bit of anxiety seeing so many cars just casually ignore them.
Are you anxious because people need to stop at a stop sign, or because there may be a police who pull you over for not stopping correctly? (serious question)
I m Brit that's driven in the US. The stop sign thing was crazy in suburban cities and towns. Literally having to stop at every intersection. In the UK, with about 30 years of driving experience, I've only seen a handful of stop signs here.
Paul Sarjantson Both. The system here (US) is designed assuming people will stop, and it’s a really easy way to get an expensive ticket.
@@postie10111 Same question to you about seat belts, would seeing someone not wear one make you anxious because you know if they got in a crash they would likely die, or because the police will fine you? The former of course. Same answer for stop signs here in the states. It is taught very strictly here in drivers ed how dangerous not taking those signs seriously can be.
@@postie10111 It gives us anxiety seeing people ingoring the stop sings. Road safety relies on them because of the road network desing.
@@postie10111 Can't speak for OP, but in the US, drivers can be very reckless. We can't expect other drivers to use safe judgment when approaching intersections with blind spots. For this reason, respecting stop signs is ingrained in our culture. Ironically, some would argue that stop signs actually make roads less safe since they distract drivers by forcing them to take their eyes off the road. I'll defer to experts to make that call. It seems like this video demonstrates how many variables come into play regarding the effectiveness of different safety mechanisms.
It stresses me out how the people aren’t stopping at the stop sign
As Tom said. Stops in Britain are extremely rare. People aren't fimiliar with them and see a clear junction so they proceed.
@@markdenyer8072 Licensed drivers are supposed to know what all road markings mean, and it's not like a stop sign is obscure, seeing as it's instructions are printed on the sign.
99% of the time there is no reason to stop, so they apply the bayesian rule and just cross.
If every other junction that you approach like that is a "Give way" then you're conditioned to proceed if its visibly clear.
In fairness I live near a few stop signs but they are all on junctions with poor visibility so I just treat like any other junction. Yes I don't always reach a full stop as per law but I am always at a crawling pace with them. Stop signs in the UK are like a warning "good luck, this is a shitty junction" so you just take extra caution than usual
I had a similar experience while taking my class1 hgv test. The cyclist was hidden by my right-hand mirrors all the way up to a roundabout, I didn't see him until he popped out of my blind spot almost right in front of me. I explained to the examiner what had happened, and I went on to pass my test. It could have ended very differently, the roundabout was smack outside our main police station!
The same thing happened to me, just not on my driving test, thankfully. I was approaching the roundabout, saw no cars approaching and was about to roll through when something started ringing in my head and told me to simply adjust in my seat a bit. Lo and behold, there was the cyclist, right in my blind spot. It shook me up a bit but everything was fine. Now I always make a point of shifting to look.
As an American, it is very strange to see such a high number of people not even slowing down at a stop sign. Not that everyone in the US comes to a complete stop, but I feel like because of the frequency with which stop signs and 4-way stop junctions appear, we just feel like we are in much more danger of a crash rolling through a stop sign. Almost like the equivalent of a roundabout in the US, where they are so rare that many do not know how to properly use them. Glad to hear it is getting changed though.
Depending on the area, I see it all the time. Especially if it is a residential area with hard to see stop signs or intersections that have no stop signs yet other intersections do.
@@escondidofilmsEspecially if it is a rural area with clear sight lines like this.
A lot of people think "why stop when you can see there is no traffic within a half a mile of the intersection in any direction?"
Unfortunately there are always certain areas you can't see and if things line up right.... well, you saw the animation.
the british dont use stop signs silly goose!
I think stop signs are a bit more clear then round a bouts.
Usually stop signs are located in an area where visibility is limited, and driver understands why he has to stop. Here, the driver sees that the road is empty, so he thinks why should I stop. He doesn't understand that there could be a bicycle in his blind spot
“Two cyclist have died in the last ten years”
*Cyclist nervously passes by*
Only two in ten years? In the United States there are far more dangerous stretches of road.
I would assume they aren't more dangerous relative usage
@@bakachan3601 The US thinks sidewalks are optional in cities, so…
Two? Only?
@@bakachan3601 this is rural area. 2 cyclist in 10years is a lot
"Why is this one of the most dangerous crossroads in the UK?"
Four cars proceed to not even slow down at the STOP sign, and the only one that does is luckily the one that deals with a cyclist.
It's not the roads, it's the people who don't know what a red octagon with STOP on it means.
No they are fully aware what it means, they just don't care
I found it interesting that stop signs are not common in the UK, they're very common here in America. People still blow through stop signs here but my guess is that because people encounter stop signs less often in the UK, they aren't used to following them.
@@arandomstartreknerd7261 they are definitely common enough that everyone will be used to them. I think Tom's words are a bit confusing, they are certainly not rare.
@@ninjacell2999 theyre a lot more rare than the Give Way signs, thats for sure
They are fairly rare, rare enough that i can only remember seeing two whilst driving in the last three years. I think you will find it comes down to human perception to filter out things not percieved as important in the moment, IE: people arent used to looking out for them therefore some people dont notice them.
Just watched a video update about this junction. They actually did stagger the junction
Ashley Neal sent you here too?
Looks like Mr. Scott changed the title because of the fix.
I just like the fact that people were just blowing through the stop signs as Tom was talking.
"Why is this intersection so dangerous?"
Literally counted 5 cars in the span of 4 minutes that didn't stop at the stop signs. And thats not including any cars that did so while you cut away to show other information, which listening to the audio seems to imply at least 1 or 2 more cars didn't stop. That's about 6 cars in the span of 4 minutes. Even if you used jumpcuts and this wasn't one continuous take, thats still 4 minutes of recording in which cars were actively coming through, and 5-7 cars chose not to stop. Unbelievable
^^^this, sooo much this!
You'd think a cyclist living there would know for sure people don't stop at stop signs
Having the crossing policed for a couple of months would pay for any change of the crossing just by the fines for not stopping. Probably you could build a tunnel for all that money.
they're very rare in the uk though stop signs, people just treat them like give-way...
davefb do you have stop signs at three way intersections? Like where one road comes into a main road?
Imagine being a cyclist, going down this road and hearing Tom talking about how easy cyclists get hit
hahahahah
I'd just hop right off and start walking. Don't care if I'm miles from the destination, I ain't crossing that.
@@noesunyoutuber7680 Same, I'd probably put a tent there and wait for a big big lorry to take me across the intersection
Imagine being a cyclist and thinking that you belong on the road with all the cars and that you, the cyclist, have all the power.
@@jlj2169 you do know that cyclists are legally allowed to go on the edge of the road
In the United States' midwest region, there are lots of straight stretches of road that will occasionally have a 4-way intersection with stop signs. If you're only halfway paying attention, as driving long distances causes humans to do, they're easy to miss. The solution was to put rumble strips across the roads to snap drivers back into paying attention.
And often have flashing red lights on top of the stop sign or strung above the road.
Yep. My immediate thought was rumble strips. They certainly get your attention when you hit one going 60mph/97kph.
That aerial shot showing the car approaching behind the cyclist has really shown me something. Never had the thought that they can not see because I could be behind them even tho to me looks like I'm perfectly at side of them. Wow.
Blindspots are to blame in these sort of accidents, along with drivers who ignore stop signs. I really do wonder how many people have died simply because the driver couldn’t see them with the chunky a b and c pillars that conceal pedestrians, cyclists, other vehicles since the 2000’s and 2010’s.
As an American, stop signs are a lot more common here. It’s honestly wild watching people just blow through like that.
Max Figura for real. People here will treat stop signs like yields and roll through, but they at least slow down, they don’t shoot through at full speed like these people do.
Watching that was pure insanity .... Do these people not fear for there own safety even ? Very strange
America is terrible
@@Leon-ub8pe hmmm , very educated.
@@Leon-ub8pe Well maybe, but at least we can obey simple road signage.
I love how in the end when Tom says: "for drivers to stop at the stop sign" the blue car conforms and in that moment ACTUALLY stops at the stop sign. Kudos to the driver of the blue car.
No. Kudos is for achievement. That driver did what everyone should do. No kudos for that.
This is easy they had to negotiate
@@gabor6259 they should but in the UK there really are very few stop signs and they are virtually never enforced. As there are so few they are never enforced like in the USA where by cops hide at a junction waiting to ticket cars only slowing down to 5mph so as to raise funds.
I'm thinking that may have been staged for the video. The car stopped for a really long time when there were no cars coming
And the car at the start of the video just ran the stop sign
my Gran lives just out of shot to the left of Tom in this video and I have been on this junction hundreds if not thousands of times in my life and it never occurred to me that it was this dangerous until now, I have been on the area when accidents have happened and remember an in-depth convocation between my Gran and my Parents about the junction. I'm glad that it has been fixed as I am now learning to drive myself and all my relatives live in this area.
It's almost like this intersection was specifically designed for cars to hit cyclists. I propose naming it Clarkson's Crossing
If only there was an indicator telling people to stop at the intersection so they have an opportunity to check for crossing traffic and cyclists.
@@Fools_Requiem If only we could have faith in our fellow human beings to understand jokes.
@@drakebalzer2098 Indeed. Or obey road traffic signs 100% of the time even when the road appears to be completely clear. Human factors are clearly tough for some people to comprehend.
I should stress that the simulations here aren't tweaked or faked to make it more dramatic! Quoting Mat Hill, who made the graphics for this video: "I was horrified the first time I lined everything up and played back ... with just the correct road angles, the blind spot is perfect until the last moment."
h
Why is this comment 2 weeks ago?
Why does it say 2 weeks ago?
unlisted video?
Unlisted video or private?
"Two people last year got killed here"
"To stagger the intersection would need a budget of hundred thousand pounds."
Well... there's an entrance to calculating the monetary value of human life, if I've seen one. And I don't like the range in which the result will be...
That's just the value of cyclists on that road, and tbh still a little high for me, cyclists that get hit from the side was just a matter of time for them to die with the lack of awareness and value for one's own life while sharing the road with cars.
@@zym6687 Did you not watch the video or are you just an ass?
Most actuarial tables put the value of human life at well over the USD 1 million mark. 100K pounds to stagger the roads sounds like an absolute bargain, such that if the local municipality won't do it, the national gov't should. To do otherwise is positively insane...
@Zym do... do you have brain cells? Does 1:58 sound familiar?
@@zym6687 They're getting hit from behind, farther behind than you might think because of the relative speed of the car.
Looks like the work starts today to turn this into a staggered junction - well done Tom for bringing this to the attention of the masses!
Any driver not stopping at a 'Stop' sign here in Australia is almost certain to get an expensive ticket. This intersection would be intensively monitored.
The problem is getting power to cameras, lighting etc to a very sensitive site in a national park.
Monitorin this intersection wudve been prohibitively expensive.
@@joegrey9807 I mean you could just station a cop near the intersection with a camera. Do it for a week or so and people will learn eventually
"Anyone's safety shouldn't require faith in human nature"
Well that's grim.
Although it is grim, it is unfortunately true.... i mean we can see quite a few examples of this everywhere...
Not really grim. That doesn't mean "design as if absolutely everyone is deranged", but "design as if there *will* be some people that will absolutely find a way to break it"
I mean, have you met humans?
Think of how bad you might be at driving on your worst day. Realize that 300,000 people have their worst day each day (on average) and that if you're roughly average half of those will be worse off than you on your worst day. Those are the humans systems have to be designed for.
Humans aren't terrible. But everyone has bad days, and there are enough of us that you'll see someone at their worst every week or so (assuming you see about 30k people a week, which isn't as common these days as it was a year ago).
@@gnaskar Thank you for the *very* welcome idealistic take on this concept.
If this was the US, the local police would just send someone to camp there and write out a dozen tickets a day to fill their coffers.
Perhaps that would raise the revenue necessary to amend the junction.
Penalise the morons too stupid to take a Stop sign seriously, fix the junction to save lives. Seems absolutely win-win for me.
Would be the same in any other country, except the UK apparently. A STOP sign means just that, a FULL STOP. The examples in the video, where they don't even slow down, would get tickets AND have their license revoked on the spot anywhere else in Europe.
@@HB45175 No place for the plod to hide, so all the scoff laws would see them and behave.
@@malcolmanon4762 they can hide on a bike coming from the other road
@@malcolmanon4762 Sit in an unmarked car parked off the side of the road, with a marked unit further up the road, whenever someone fails to stop, message the unit up the road, and get them after. Do it often enough, at random times without any pattern to when officers watch the road. When people don't take seriously the fact that police oculd be anywhere anytime to catch you for breaking the rules, then there's zero persoinal incentive not to. Make people unsure whether there could be a police officer watching the intersection at any moment of the day, and people will do the right thing purely out of trying to avoid a ticket.
Your ending sentence is gold.
I live in Montréal, been driving for 20 years. Never had an accident because I DON'T trust human nature.
I always look both sides even when I have the green light. Same with stops. I never assume they will stop at the sign. You have to look at everything. Humans suck. Period.
The junction has now gone! The old road was covered with turf from where the new road will be. It's been interesting to watch.
And that's why a STOP sign means "must come to a complete stop before proceeding" even on an empty road
most people just slow down but not complete stop.... in that kind of place...
@@campkira Anywhere, really.
You people have stop signs?? We have traffic police and *even then* the drivers refuse to stop at times.
"empty" road.
Just beat the drivers of the cars who don't stop. And if they yell STOP, just slow down a bit but keep beating. They will sure know what the meaning of stop is now.
that visualization was scary, for a second i legit thought that they just added in the cyclist at the end until they showed the arial perspective that shows the cyclist being exactly in the blind spot
I rewound 5 sec to check back.
The same thing can happen at just about every roundabout which has an approach curving to the left.
IKR scared the hell outta me.
me too!
*PUT IT IN VR AND RAMP UP THE GRAPHICS*
This reminds me of this junction in Germany: 50°19'33.7"N 10°34'26.0"E. In the beginning, it was give way signs, then stop signs, then they added speedbumps and finally now there's traffic lights (and speedbumps).
This is probably the most common type of junction in the US. I've never seen any effort to change the angles over here. Stop signs are more likely followed here though that doesn't really change the point.
You can't really compare the US to the UK because the density is way higher in the UK, so I guess on streets like those there are usually more cars and cyclists than in the US. What I also noticed is that it almost never works to change something into a stop afterwards, people are already used to it and ignore the change or actively refuse to change their habits.
Junctions like this one are actually kinda rare here, most Stop signs are used when going onto very busy roads, not like this and as you saw, people dont look for them.
I agree with Robert Young, these are the most common type of intersection in the US. Even if there is no one around, we stop. There's probably some nut job going 100 mph on the other road.
The US also has a much lower general population that commutes via bicycle
In Sweden the cost of a statistical life is around 42 million SEK (~3.4 million British pounds). A statistical life are not putting a price tag on human lives, but rather a valuable way to measure how much money is spent for the purpose of avoiding death, per death. Not sure what the cost of a statistical life is in the context of traffic in Britain, but I'm sure it would cost less to fix the intersection than to provide lifelong health care for someone who got injured in this intersection.
@Tom Scott, video idea: statistical lives!
I'd definitely watch a vid on statistical life.
Ever heard of the Ford Pinto?
Very interesting concept, thanks for sharing.
Yep, we have an equivalent in the UK; not sure what the value is, but its certainly in the low £ millions, so comparable. £100k to stagger the junction should be a no-brainer. EDIT: Just looked it up, its £2.2M for a fatality (2018 figures). That is based on an average persons contribution to the economy over their lifetime. A quick sense check gives a smidge under £50k p.a. which is reasonable when you consider thats NOT their earnings, but their contribution (earnings they get, taxes they pay, profits for any company they work for etc). I dont have access to the full basis of that calculation, so please dont blame me, I’m just reporting what it is.
Yes
I legit gasped when you showed that the car is behind the cyclist’s view the whole time.
Same. Subhanallah...
Happened to me more than once, surprisingly.. Nearly hit a skateboarder
You did? Meh, you are allowed to turn your head, even if you have the right of way you should still check that it's clear. When you're on a bicycle you should pretend that everybody is out to kill you and nobody sees you and always verify. You don't wanna rely on random strangers to respect your right of way to survive.
@@DonSanchez I believe that's called being paranoid. You okay there, Don?
@@DonSanchez yes, cyclists just look down into their front wheels all the time. No situational awareness at all!
Terrifying! As a cyclist, I always watch the motor traffic and never assume they see me.
i had to google "what stop sign means in UK" to make sure we on the same page. Haven't seen a single car make a stop.
It looks so scary seeing cars drive right through the stop sign without even slowing down.
"Safety shouldn't require faith in human nature" is a scarily appropriate ending note, given the current climate...
Yep, thats when systems and rigorous enforcement need to take place. Makes me long for our robot overlords no bias
Hi, Jackeea! Fancy seeing you on a Tom Scott video! Didn't know you were a fan of him!
@@birichinaxox9937 you sound like cgp grey :D
There are always idiots
touché :P
As of July 2020, there's now plans to change this exact junction to a staggered Junction, exactly like Tom suggests within the video.
Excellent! Common sense needs to prevail!
roundabout would also solve the problem
@@AlexTrusk91 How?! You'd still have the blindspot problem whereby cyclists would be hidden by the window pillar on the driver's side.
@@kevinrussell2718 Check at 3:32. They will have to stop cause there is no road in front and drivers will have to take a slight left turn before connecting to the road ahead.
@@craveleaks8102 But currently drivers tend NOT to stop at the junction, because they can't see another vehicle on the other road - even thought there is a prominent "Stop" sign! That is my point concerning the installation of a roundabout at the junction!
I like how tom changed the thumbnail to say its fixed now
I live in northern Victoria (Aus) where, due to the land being so flat, it was set up as flood irrigation country with roads laid out in a 1.62km (1.0 mile) grid pattern -- just like a sheet of graph paper. Even though most of these roads have very little traffic, the crash rate is horrendous. Even for 90 degree intersections, the A pillars can still act as blind spots for cars travelling at a certain speed. It's one of the biggest killers on the road around here.
When I cycle I assume every car is going to kill me, and every parked car door will open, and every pedestrian will step out in front of me.
Now that has got me thinking.
Maybe that is something motorist should do when approaching.
What about a foreign language "stop sign".
At least then they might have to figure out where they are.
Here in Canada we even have some bilingual ones.
Could you send someone over to pick a few up?
In addition, it's fair to assume that the pedestrians will yell at you.
When I drive I assume every cyclist is an idiot. When I cycle I assume every driver is an idiot.
That's a good idea and I hope you will never let people convince you (or rather: brainwash you into thinking) otherwise. There are people who'd say your attitude makes you a bad cyclist because "obviously you're way too fearful" but that's bs.
This is why I ride on the footpath wherever possible, even if I'm breaking the law - Pedestrians are generally softer than vehicles and car doors.
Seeing all the people rolling through the stop signs, AND seeing that bike roll by really had me worried for a sec
the other road has no stop sign and right of way
@@toddlincolna95 it appears to have, you can see the word STOP on the road behind Tom and also the back of the Octagon shaped sign, presumably saying STOP - unless you're talking about the road running across the screen rather than up and down it.
@@marccox7371 I'm referring to the cross road going left to right
@@toddlincolna95 why would they need stop signs on that road, because the other road has them
@@toddlincolna95 Yes this is not a 4 way stop. In the US it would usually say that with extra little signs if ambiguous. And for this intersection they may even add a sign saying cross traffic does not stop.
It's amazing how many people blew through that stop sign just in the time you were there filming.
I love how during the whole video, no one stops, yet during the speech at the end about people not stopping, both cars stop.
Shoutout to those few people who did stop at the stop signs, particularly those last two.
I bet half of them only did because they saw a dude filming. 🤣
Watch again. Only one of them stopped!
Doing something you learn in kindergarden is worth a shoutout?
In what a world do we live?
@@jannikheidemann3805 I would say since they are doing what they are supposed to when no one else is, its worth being noticed.
one of the cars came to a rolling stop; they didn't stop completely, only slowed down to probably 5-10km/h
"... anyone's safety shouldn't require faith in human nature."
Wow, such a realistically depressing mood!
Welcome to Tom Scott
And yet, this is exactly the reason accidents happen
The best trust is no trust
And yet that is the argument people will make "I thought they saw me" or "they should have been more visible".
I wouldn't say that's anything to be depressed or worried about, I'd say that's just standard Health & Safety practice really, you remove human nature from the thought process because it can vary so widely or unexpectedly; levels of competency at their job, amount of sleep they had that night etc etc. It's much better to remove the risk entirely, or control it to a point that a humans influence over it is negligible.
Honestly the fact they can't even make people drive in the correct side of the road would suggest making them stop at the stop signs is impossible.
love this video .. i especially loved watching again to see how many cars actually stopped at the signs behind Tom there... me personally here in Australia i failed my driving test twice for failing to stop at a stop sign
I'm getting anxiety just by watching those people drive right on through those stop signs.
but they're driving left!
Na Ri Not all of them, a bunch drove straight through
@@nari5025 Doesn't matter a stop sign means stop in the UK. Even if they were turning left they could still just as easily hit a cyclist or another car..
Na Ri haha.
EXACTLY. What the hell is wrong with those people?!
Used to cycle this road every day to get to work when a teen, my mum used to tell me all the time how danerous this is. Glad they chaged it finally
In Australia we put roundabouts everywhere to slow down traffic,works like a charm...
I cycle through here all the time and wasn't even aware of why it seemed particularly horrible to get through 😅 Tom Scott is teaching me about things right on my doorstep
Stay safe
I'll start praying for you now
Now you better turn your head.
🙌🙌🙌
@@birichinaxox9937 thanks will do :) because it's such a quiet area, if you are a cyclist and paying attention you do hear any other cars before you see them, but you just have to assume they won't see you
Watching everyone run those signs fills me with anxiety like no s t o p
In the words of a great scientist: *"STAHP"*
I hate them with all my heart.
I live about 3 miles from Ipley Cross and have driven through there 1000’s of times over the years. It is a dodgy junction, no two ways about it, but it’s not helped by speeding and impatient drivers. I always stop at the junction and take a proper look, it only takes a few seconds, I myself have experienced the cyclist hiding behind the door pillar and it’s a scary thing when they suddenly come into view. Well worth a couple of seconds to stop and look.
The fact that while filming this video, so many cars just went by without stopping, is quite alarming. This junction has apparently been fixed just a few months back.
This week planning permission was finally granted to remove this dangerous crossroads and replace it with a staggered junction, therefore hopefully designing out the danger of drivers “glancing and chancing”. Thank you Tom for helping bring this local serious road safety issue to wider public attention and in the longer term undoubtedly saving lives.
Great
Lolz
And has it been done?
@@sarahgrey5953 the relevant authorities have been legally obligated to wait until now to start the works due to the ground nesting bird season, but the new section of road is indeed fenced off and the diggers are imminent
@@sarahgrey5953 They're waiting for bird nesting season to finish then it's expected to take about 6 weeks.
As a local who lives about ten minutes from this place, it’s always been a dangerous junction but it feels weird seeing why. We’ve posted this on our local Facebook page to make other people aware of how dangerous it is.
All they have to do is plant some (local) shrubbery around the junction so that drivers can't see if nothing is coming until they get to the junction. Cheap, doesn't impact the national park, doesn't require permits.
@@thePronto brilliant!
Probably because it feels like the speed has to be a magic bad number, but it isn't.
Pronto wins today's Internet.
@@thePronto All they have to do is have a cop start writing citations for people just blasting through stop signs (I mean even doing a sushi roll is better than what these people are doing.)
I found this video through a link in the description of someone else's video. That video was talking about this very junction and how it was fixed after Tom had done this one.
Again, your ability to make something that seems boring actually interesting is top notch. I don't know how you do it, but please keep doing it.
"a budget estimated at £100,000"
That's....that's almost nothing. If it stops multiple accidents per year then it pays for itself very quickly. And that's before we even get to the value of a human life.
For a large city - probably. But that's outskirts.
A human is only worth around $2.75. We're mostly made of water, which is usually freely available, and then a handful of minerals, which don't cost much at all.
As for children, they're worth even less, and are far easier to replace.
@@Metal-Possum Actually, a human life is worth about 6 to 9 million dollars. One year of high quality human life is worth around 129,000 dollars according to Stanford economists
@@Metal-Possum If you look at it in pure materials cost, then perhaps, but if you look at it with even the slightest bit of human feeling and emotion, instead of pure cynicism and nihilism, then no. Not only are the emotional connections somebody might have, extremely important, but from an economic standpoint, an alive human is worth far more than a dead one. Especially in a rich country like Britain, somebody might contribute several million dollars to the economy in their lifetime.
I am convinced that you are a robot with literally zero emotion.
But you're forgetting the "conservative locals", who clearly know better.
*Starts the video* "This intersection doesn't look too dangerous..."
0:14
"You were saying..."
That driver should get ticketed based on this clip.
@@user-ms7gt2km5f can be reported, number plate and driver seem to be visible
I was just going to mention the douche that didn't stop right at the beginning of the video.
WF09 LBZ?
@@winterwhite110507 XF09 LBZ
I love how the final shot has a car do a rolling stop at the stop sign.
Weirdly, I immediately recognised the junction on the thumbnail despite only having been here once and after they'd fixed it! You can clearly see from the earthworks how it used to be and it's obviously much safer now. Shame it took them so long!
I live there and have driven through this junction many times and never understood why there were such big STOP signs at such a seemingly quiet junction - guess this explains it!!
I hope your someone who actually comes to a complete stop.
@@brendonhalverson5178 they are now!
Quietly deadly
Maybe that's the explanation? People don't stop at that stop sign because they don't see the reason why?
@@FoxBlocksHere I think also because as you approach from either side it seems like your vision is so clear - there's no trees, bushes, buildings etc so people think there's no way they wouldn't see something
Propably someone else already did that, but here goes:
0:16 Car: flying by, not slowing down
1:21 Car: Not a complete stop, but at least slowed down
1:27 Car: Didn't slow down
1:48 Car: Slows down, propably a full stop (video cuts away, not sure)
1:52 Car: Full stop
2:15 Car: Only slowed down for turning, no stop
2:19 Car: Full stop
2:48 Car: Propably made a full stop by the looks of it
3:06 Bike: Full stop
3:21 Car: Slowed down, no full stop
3:25 Car: Seemed to have stopped further back. Since the view is not obstructed, let's count this as a full stop.
3:29 Approaching car, video cuts before we can see what happens. At least the car slows down.
3:45 Car: Full stop. And what a long stop it is...
3:49 Car: No full stop, but almost.
So, out of 14 road users, 5 didn't stop at the stop sign (we can't tell for 2 other road users, those are not taken into account here). It doesn't take a mathematical genious to figure out that more than 1/3 of road users at that junction didn't stop at the stop sign. 3 of those only slowed down, without coming to a full stop. But that at least is better than those 2 dickheads that flew right past that junction.
10 000£ fine for everyone who speeds past a stop sign
If that doesnt work then 2 years in jail
@@Donari £10,000 to anyone who spots a police officer in the new forest
@@Donari Heavy fines would pay for the traffic monitoring and might eventually pay for whatever fix was ultimately decided upon.
I agree if they sat an officer there just for that purpose that can make money to go tward a light or something else but I feel a light will be excessive for that intersection possibly some bump dots on the road would slow them down to at least look for oncoming traffic. Speeding over them would cause the car to shake and bounce violently. As used here in the usa freeways sidings
1:21 Laughs in Californian
Please please please do a video on maps aging over time and how roads change. That little segment in this video was mind blowing. I suppose I always knew it worked like that but totally fascinating to see it
Not that closely related, but this video reminded me of an observation I made decades ago. If you are driving and some animal gets in front of you, it may be best to keep going in the same direction while applying brakes (and hoping you don't get rear-ended...) rather than trying to veer around it. The animal probably thinks you're trying to kill it, not avoid hitting it, and will base its evasive action on that assumption. Trying to go around it will just confuse it. Or am I just guessing?
That actually make some sense, unless the animal is startled and freezes in the road.
@@jhfdhgvnbjm75 Good point. Like the "deer in the headlights". Maybe it's different at night. Any animal psychologists out there?
I've always heard 'if an animal is in front of you, aim at it' 😆 that's literally what my dad taught me. So yes, I would say your theory is correct
I live in a rural area. Rabbits will freeze in the headlights and if you keep driving straight you will hit them.
I’ve recently looked up the statistics in Germany, every year between 10 and 20 people die in vehicle accidents with animals. My guess is that most of those are people trying to evade the animal and loose control of their vehicle (and hit a tree or something else).
The door pillar blind spot is a serious issue, I nearly had a heart attack when driving slowly towards a zebra crossing and just as I reached it a person suddenly appeared from behind the pillar in my side window, if they had kept walking I'd have hit them for sure. I don't think I've been more terrified in my life than when I realised that. Now if I'm at a zebra crossing I always move my head to make sure no one is hidden by the pillar and on foot I always wait till I can confirm a driver has seen me before I cross.
This is so true. The A Pillar on my Toyata van is ... rather broad, to support the immense windscreen span. On two occasions, pulling out of our 2-track rural driveway (not a tree for ten miles) onto a 70mph paved highway, I have nearly been rammed by vehicles coming from the right (drive right, USA). And not motorbikes or small cars either -- large trucks pulling toy trailers. And I am a compulsive triple-checker head checker mirror glancer, a safe driver with zero accidents in 35 years on the road. (Well, except for that one cow elk we hit. RIP, Lady Wapati.)
It's just that at the converging speeds of me in the driveway (10mph) and cars on the highway (65-70 mph), even a very large car stays in the blind spot of the A Pillar for, say, 50 of my yards. Long enuf for repeated look-rights to tell your brain 'nothing is there'. Three head checks: all clear. Then the sound of a large truck horn as you confidently pull forward, and suddenly the sumbitch is *on you*.
Crossings, and somehow roundabouts for me. I can be comfortably approaching, checking the whole time if there is a car to my right already on the roundabout (drive on left). And then there's a car in the pillar
The A-pillars are huge these days, but the roads were not designed with that in mind, and also a big proportion of drivers have learned to drive in a time when A-pillars could barely hide anything behind them. It doesn’t help that the most popular cars these days (suv, crossover, minivan etc.) have the biggest A-pillars. You really have to move your head around a lot when you are driving in the city these days.
I relate to this so much!
I had almost the same experience. I drove a Volkswagen Van and took a left turn, after traffic light. An elder person was waiting on the other side, behind the a pillar. My friend next to me saw him the whole time, but didn‘t thought that i hadn‘t seen that person.
I admit, that i‘m a fast driver, which many consider to be reckless, but since that day always move my head and if i‘m not sure to see everything, I will slow down.
Why are they not see-through? It seems kind of dumb to put a blind spot in a car.
As an American, seeing all those people completely disregarding the stop sign, all I think is: Cops ticket pad goes brrrrrrrr...
Noone really cares in the UK as they are really rare
@@haashirkabeer2671 Writing traffic citations is largely how US police forces are funded.
@@glowfishin1 people would generally expect a roundabout in this situation, this is a weird case
@@glowfishin1 they give car fines in the UK, but very rarely for stop signs
As Tom says, they are really really rare in the UK. I know of one a few miles from me, and you'd have to be a complete idiot to ignore it, as the junction is completely blind.
Amazing that most of the cars going through never stopped.
They've started construction works on this now. One of the roads is being redone - looks like they're now staggered. Drove past it this morning!
New fact learned: Didn’t know that you have to have street lighting for a speed bump to be installed. Makes sense now that you think about it, imagine not seeing it and hitting that thing full speed.
If there would be good signage the all i can say is, 'serves them right,'
Well, there is a warning sign "stop 100 yards ahead".
If some fool hit a speed bump at full speed with there already a sign warning of a stop ahead, they bloody well deserve a damage car.
@@busog97641 at this point it could be a flying car, which could, potentially, hit a cyclist or another car mid-flight.
not cool. does not increase safety.
@@RKBock who cares about safety, that would be hilarious
I cycled through here today, ngl I was a bit terrified when I remembered where I recognised it from
i'm glad you survived to tell the class about it
I guess as a cyclist your safest option is to keep looking back over your left shoulder
@@pineapplesandjellies And or yield at the crossing, right of way or not
Ive read the blog on this and looked at the plan of the solution that was implemented (follow the link to the solution and its on a link in there). I note that staggering the junction by bending one arm of the crossing road is the solution adopted. The effect will also be to slow vehicles on that arm and greatly increase viewing angles for drivers. However, the same issue can occur on the other arm and whilst staggering the junction will reduce the tendency of drivers to “go across without slowing” drivers may still emerge from that arm without slowing, particularly since the STOP signs/markings have been changed back to GIVE WAY. Surely that arm ALSO needs a bend at the junction to reduce the issue even more.
I live in Canada. We have these rural stop signs all over the place and there are some horrific accidents. The biggest problem is people think because there is no traffic no need to stop.
0:16 that's why there are so many accidents. People like him ignoring stop signs
With drivers like those, could you imagine an accident happening just as Tom was recording this?
@@Brunosky_Inc Oh come on, everyone in the UK drives like this.
@@Malc180s and I thought American drivers were bad
Malc180s doesnt make it right. It’ll take maybe 5 secs off of your journey to stop at the extremely occasional stop sign. And save lives
And the others, 5 or so
3:42
"The easiest way to solve this is for drivers to stop at the stop signs"
**Guy stops at stop sign**
I present to you, 0:14
5 seconds later a muddy silver 4 door drives up to the still stopped car, fails to bring the vehicle to a stop, and rolls on through.
@@onewhosaysgoose4831 they still slowed down enough for them to notice anyone. Honestly, that's how just about everyone treats stop signs in California.
@@KalenvS 1:25
In Carrigaline, Co. Cork, Ireland is a junction known as Ballinrea Cross. On average, there has been a crash on this crossroads everyday, for the last 3 years. Local council has done surveys which have thrown up recommendations for traffic lights, roundabouts, etc but nothing has ever been done. If you visit the cross you will see why its so dangerous. One approach to the cross is blind because of a slight hill/rise, another approach is downhill to the cross and a main road cuts through the cross, it has an 80km/h limit but it is largely not adhered to. If you're ever in Co. Cork take a look at Ballinrea Cross.
Drove past here yesterday. Now been re worked. But clear to see old road layout
0:15 That car just blasted past that stop sign!
OK! Lots of people not stopping.
*Muffled F*ck the police song fades in the distance*
Kim Henrik Tafjord I watched that bit three times to be sure, and yes the car doesn’t even noticeably slow down.
Thank god for 4K on you tube:
MF09LBZ
Gd ll4ma dude didnt you watch the video
Holy cow, I can't believe how many people completely ignored the stop sign!
no cop, no stop
The average person wouldn't see the point of it. Maybe they should add special signage for this road telling people to check their blindspot
Or curve the road some
@@hairyairey I never stop at stop signs if it's not necessary, this video doesn't change anything for me. Considering I can drive a car, ride a motorcycle, & fly a helicopter I would say I'm above average skill in operating motor vehicles.
Those who blindly do what signs do without confirming for themselves are below average. If a driver saw a sign & verified safty himself then I would say they are better as it takes more mental work then simply "following orders". The road is poorly deisnged but I give no fault to those who were unfortunate engough to hit the bikers as it was not reasonable to maintain constant heightened awareness.
Being hyper aware 100% of time time is a lot of work & no one does it I can guarantee you that. We only are hyper away when our mind says its needed, such as driving in close quarters on a highway or flying through high traffic airspace. Outside those unique situations our minds resort to our natural instincts which are much more efficient.
@@garrettzucker2894 ugh, no. it's necessary to stop because the law mandates it. That's exactly why the sign is there. You can't claim to be above the law by being "smarter" and then explain why you don't fault the drivers for ignoring the sign. You're contradicting yourself.
I've seen rural intersections that had a lot of accidents for no apparent reason: level, good visibility, roads meeting at right angles, etc. Some of them have measures designed to reduce the risk, such as larger stop signs, "stop ahead" signs, flashing red and yellow lights, grooved pavement, and multiple stop lines. The locals would have a fit if they changed them to roundabouts.
Really nice video. Well done.
7/11 cars we see passing through the intersection along the road with the stop sign rolled through or blew through the sign. Although props to that one cyclist who stopped at the stop sign.
And the last car who did stop at the sign
A cyclist who stops at a stop sign or a red traffic light is quite unusual in my locality.