Thanks for watching! Hope my drawing showed or gave a good idea what is happening...a rifle puts off more of a rainbow trajectory (close and far range zeroes) and the bullpup is almost a straight line angle trajectory to the zeroed range...
When I first saw the AVBP hit the market I asked several of the initial reviewers including PA if they thought the rail system looked a little spindly. None of them wanted to comment. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that the thermal and structural stability isn't there. Leave it laying in the sun a little too long on one side and the expansion will push the rail over. Take it to the shade and then it will come back. The rail should be thicker and it needs to connect to the receiver at or near the same location as the barrel. Bullpups like you are pointing out have a definite different line of sight from a standard rifle configuration. Also I have found the compact design can require slightly different mounting height requirements for the optic.
100% wrong. The reason the bullpup was shooting lower is due to the scope height above the bore compared to to scope height above the bore on the rifle. You can verify by plugging the info into Hawke Chair Gun App and changing the Sight Height.
@@ALLABOUTAIRGUNS what he is saying is the bp still has two zero points not one like you mentioned. the ranges at which this occurs should be pretty different as it 100% depends on your pov vs the barrels
the slight change is caused by the height of the scope not how much further up the barrel it is. I thought anyone who uses scopes on air rifles would keep that in mind. on most air rifles you want the scope as close to the barrel as possible. from what i saw each of the rifles was shooting about one dot above the crosshairs about where i would expect for a 50 yard zero
LMAO Lead is 0.44 cents a pound at the moment 10 whole tins of crossman primier hollow cheapest pellet if you catch all the lead it will only be 440 cents worth of lead, an thats taking into account the cheapest pellet if you shot jsb it would take you like 200 dollars for only 4 dollars of lead man u forgot to do tha math or what lol. dont hassle yourself for no reason.
Just an email today from PA saying they got in some 22and 25 bullpups in so i ordered the 25 , I all ready have the wooden ones one in 22 and the other in 25 , so hope i will like the bullpup lol Thanks STKO you all ways do great and informitive videos.
James, if your bullpup trajectory only crosses the line of sight of your scope once within 50 yards that just means that your zero, stated the normal way, is significantly further away. 50 yards can be the first crossing of the trajectory and the line of sight but it cannot be the only point they cross. The line of sight is a straight line and the pellet trajectory is not. Your longer Avenger could be zero'd this way too. If this is what you've done you will have to aim high until 50 yards and then hold under beyond that. The amount you will have to hold over will be less for the longer rifle because it's scope center line is closer to the bore center line. If you shoot some targets from 10 to 50 yards and you are always low but rising, that is what is going on.
That's what I said at 50yd distance being the maximum....bullpup and rifle put off a different trajectory, same barrels, same pellets/fps ...barrel in front vs behind the scope ....read the comment from Ed Myirski cause he explained it very well to another viewer
Its just the effect of scope hight old school hunters using mpbr for hunting have used slightly higher scope mounts for years and zeroed there rifle firther with the only downfall being poi is lower up close the bullpup just sacrifices up close poi for poi down range if you dont plan on hunting inside of 15yds it shouldn't make much difference if you put higher moint rings on the standard avenger to make the hight over bore the same as the bullpup the poi will be the same
AESWEDE has a .177 Avenger bullpup hitting birds at 150+ yards. I had him build me one...OMG is it sweet. Tack driver at 100yrds. Shooting 16.3 jsb monsters.
Finally a head to head comparison with the bull pup and the long rifle!!! Keep up the good work James!!! I thought about getting a bull pup because what you just said... they're good for close quarters situations. But for long range shooting is where my avenger .25 lr comes into play.
Muchas gracias, la mira no se mueve, las anillas están firmes, el cañón no se mueve, yo digo que la Corona está mala. Gracias mi hermano sigue ayudando a personas como nosotros
Depends on the size target and amount of error you want to account for over or under the crosshairs...could be 1" or 2" depending on your ZEROs and scope height on each setup
My bullpup collection is fantastic! My air rifle collection is fantastic! Doesn't include a POS AVA! Who wants to have to waists money an time on something that is supposed to work fine to the customers??? You have to work on them and spend more than they cost to make them right and solid and working like they should.Ed da pro snippin backyard man💥💪😎
What's a decent budget PCP, I kinda of want bullpup as a middle between a. Rifle/pistol. I have CO2 pistols and a decent break barrel .22, looking for a decent, budget friendly bullpup or such
@@eddiecahall3824 the bullpup in this video? Or which one? Im sking what is a good, first, budget friendly PCP, leaning towards bullpup. You said you had several so wondering your thoughts
@@JesusChrist_IsTruth-LoveForALL Not the one in this video no! It has too many problems and it's a money sponge. The one I'm suggesting to you is a Beeman 1358 underlever .22cal version bullpup pcp air rifle. I bought one 2 yrs ago and it's still working like it should for a fraction of the Air Venturi avenger bullpup. I purchased the one in this video when it first came out and it's no good for the money and has defects. A bunch won't hold air after you wait to get one. The Beeman bullpup 1358 underlever is the ticket to success for $258 it's really good. Then you'll need cheap chinesea high pressure hand pump on Amazon 4500 psi pump for air soft. They're good like a Vevor name one is good. Go back and look at my first message I wrote and then this one. look up the Beeman 1358 underlever bullpup pcp rifle on Airgun Depot.com and Pyramydair.com. it's a steal!
James, your comments about the trajectory of a bullpup only crossing the line of sight once is just 100% wrong. Because the scope is higher on a bullpup, it crosses the line of sight further from the muzzle but mine still cross about 20 yards from the muzzle when sighted to a 40 yard zero. My rifles cross about 10 yards sooner because their scopes are lower. A few minutes with a trajectory program like chairgun would show you the difference for your Avengers.
9:31 Uh no their not...I shoot everyday and know what I am talking about....and using the 50yd distance as the max distance the bullpup trajectory is different than a rifle...chairgun/strelok dont consider this... all they assume is bore height not barrel length or angle because airgun barrels have to point upward to meet the line the sight or every airgun would need a MOA rail or adjustable rings so please do your research and test your own gun like I have....especially how I do things which doesnt use apps
That is not an accurate test. You have one scope sitting almost in line with the barrel on the rifle and the scope 2ins over the barrel on the bull pup, which will for sure change you point POI at closer ranges.
That's a valid comparison between bullpup and traditional rifles, however. You simply wouldn't mount a scope that high on a traditional rifle, but you have to on a Bullpup to get a cheek-weld. Something to think about when choosing. Personally, I don't care for bullpups for a sporting arm; I find the balance to be poor (although most air guns also have fore-mounted reservoirs, and are also poorly balanced) and the guns clunky to handle and use. Not to mention, the higher you mount a scope, the more tilting the gun has an effect on the difference between LOS and the trajectory of the projectile.
Hey brother which one do you feel is the best, avenger rifle or the bullpup for hog hunting in .25 caliber ? Do they both share the similarities in power performance i.e. FPS and FPE ?
my ballistic calculator draws a graph of the flight path. it does go up then evens out before taking a dive. that is common sense btw and you are not cut to be a physicist. a physicist would understand the magnus effect, An intuitive understanding of the phenomenon comes from Newton's third law, that the deflective force on the body is a reaction to the deflection that the body imposes on the air-flow. The body "pushes" the air in one direction, and the air pushes the body in the other direction. In particular, a lifting force is accompanied by a downward deflection of the air-flow. It is an angular deflection in the fluid flow, aft of the body.
@@prophy4736 Wow your even more of an idiot now than just leaving it alone. It doesn't go up bud, it just doesn't. Idk how else to explain it, ask someone you trust and they will crush your dreams too lol.
@@prophy4736 Lol, I'm an aerospace engineer, show me the wings on that bullet giving it lift, how come it doesn't lift sideways or down? That's right, it DOES NOT LIFT! You aren't giving these backspin like an airsoft (where the speed the air sees to the BB at the bottom is higher creating a higher pressure than the top creating lift). Pellets do not do this (smooth bore or rifled). Your sights are tilted down like a laser, and gravity is constant acceleration down for the projectile. You are simply aiming that laser line down to cross at a set distance. Notice your calculator asks what distance you sighted it in, and its offset from the bore (this gives basic trigonometry, its just a triangle). If you set your scope perfectly straight, at the muzzle it will be hitting low by precisely the bore to scope distance, and at distances it will be precisely the projectile drop plus your bore to scope distance.
Thanks for watching! Hope my drawing showed or gave a good idea what is happening...a rifle puts off more of a rainbow trajectory (close and far range zeroes) and the bullpup is almost a straight line angle trajectory to the zeroed range...
Do you still sell your pin probe tubing?
@@kansasairhunters2057 the oring delete and pellet bumper yep!
Thank you I see what your saying
When I first saw the AVBP hit the market I asked several of the initial reviewers including PA if they thought the rail system looked a little spindly. None of them wanted to comment. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that the thermal and structural stability isn't there. Leave it laying in the sun a little too long on one side and the expansion will push the rail over. Take it to the shade and then it will come back. The rail should be thicker and it needs to connect to the receiver at or near the same location as the barrel.
Bullpups like you are pointing out have a definite different line of sight from a standard rifle configuration. Also I have found the compact design can require slightly different mounting height requirements for the optic.
What mounting height would you suggest?
100% wrong. The reason the bullpup was shooting lower is due to the scope height above the bore compared to to scope height above the bore on the rifle. You can verify by plugging the info into Hawke Chair Gun App and changing the Sight Height.
@9:31 that's what I said????
@@ALLABOUTAIRGUNS what he is saying is the bp still has two zero points not one like you mentioned. the ranges at which this occurs should be pretty different as it 100% depends on your pov vs the barrels
I did not know Air Venturi came in bull pup. That seals the deal !!
Thanks James. Very informative. I always learn something about tuning my Bullpup from your vids. Take care!
I'm trying to decide between the two as my first regulated PCP and this was a good explanation between the two guns!
Would like to see point of impact shift between crossman hollow points and domed in .22 14.3 gr
the slight change is caused by the height of the scope not how much further up the barrel it is. I thought anyone who uses scopes on air rifles would keep that in mind. on most air rifles you want the scope as close to the barrel as possible. from what i saw each of the rifles was shooting about one dot above the crosshairs about where i would expect for a 50 yard zero
Should build a target box and save the shot lead . After a while you will be shocked on the amount you collected .
LMAO Lead is 0.44 cents a pound at the moment 10 whole tins of crossman primier hollow cheapest pellet if you catch all the lead it will only be 440 cents worth of lead, an thats taking into account the cheapest pellet if you shot jsb it would take you like 200 dollars for only 4 dollars of lead man u forgot to do tha math or what lol. dont hassle yourself for no reason.
Just an email today from PA saying they got in some 22and 25 bullpups in so i ordered the 25 , I all ready have the wooden ones one in 22 and the other in 25 , so hope i will like the bullpup lol Thanks STKO you all ways do great and informitive videos.
Appreciate it!
James, if your bullpup trajectory only crosses the line of sight of your scope once within 50 yards that just means that your zero, stated the normal way, is significantly further away. 50 yards can be the first crossing of the trajectory and the line of sight but it cannot be the only point they cross. The line of sight is a straight line and the pellet trajectory is not. Your longer Avenger could be zero'd this way too. If this is what you've done you will have to aim high until 50 yards and then hold under beyond that. The amount you will have to hold over will be less for the longer rifle because it's scope center line is closer to the bore center line. If you shoot some targets from 10 to 50 yards and you are always low but rising, that is what is going on.
That's what I said at 50yd distance being the maximum....bullpup and rifle put off a different trajectory, same barrels, same pellets/fps ...barrel in front vs behind the scope ....read the comment from Ed Myirski cause he explained it very well to another viewer
Its just the effect of scope hight old school hunters using mpbr for hunting have used slightly higher scope mounts for years and zeroed there rifle firther with the only downfall being poi is lower up close the bullpup just sacrifices up close poi for poi down range if you dont plan on hunting inside of 15yds it shouldn't make much difference if you put higher moint rings on the standard avenger to make the hight over bore the same as the bullpup the poi will be the same
You are on point. That's why you dont find long range sniping rifle in the bullpup configration.
AESWEDE has a .177 Avenger bullpup hitting birds at 150+ yards. I had him build me one...OMG is it sweet. Tack driver at 100yrds. Shooting 16.3 jsb monsters.
Finally a head to head comparison with the bull pup and the long rifle!!! Keep up the good work James!!! I thought about getting a bull pup because what you just said... they're good for close quarters situations. But for long range shooting is where my avenger .25 lr comes into play.
Thanks, I actually learnt somethong today!
Good comparison STKO 👍🏻
🐴❤️🤠🇨🇱🎯👍🏻✌🏻
@@timmy4539 all guud as usual. How's it all up there?
@@timmy4539 lol will do 👍🏻
Muchas gracias, la mira no se mueve, las anillas están firmes, el cañón no se mueve, yo digo que la Corona está mala.
Gracias mi hermano sigue ayudando a personas como nosotros
no problem!
Kind of interesting but doesn't make that big of a difference. So is it something you really need to take into account.
Depends on the size target and amount of error you want to account for over or under the crosshairs...could be 1" or 2" depending on your ZEROs and scope height on each setup
The scope on the BP is quite a bit higher then the scope on the rifle. Do you think this is the reason the flight paths appear different?
@9:31 that's what I said????
James, I believe he is saying the bell of the scope on the BP is higher from the center bore of the barrel. Would that be a factor?
Nice video !!! I’m torn between what one I want , I like the bullpup look. What one would you pick ?
Can you convert a bullpup back to a rifle if you had the stock? Any options out there James?
At this time I was told that it cant be done. I don't know why but it could be the trigger ?
What do you use to fill yours?
It appears as if you are ruining a good pizza container during this test, where should we send the hate mail?
Haha
My bullpup collection is fantastic! My air rifle collection is fantastic! Doesn't include a POS AVA! Who wants to have to waists money an time on something that is supposed to work fine to the customers??? You have to work on them and spend more than they cost to make them right and solid and working like they should.Ed da pro snippin backyard man💥💪😎
What's a decent budget PCP, I kinda of want bullpup as a middle between a. Rifle/pistol. I have CO2 pistols and a decent break barrel .22, looking for a decent, budget friendly bullpup or such
@@JesusChrist_IsTruth-LoveForALL I have it an it still works after 2 yrs just like the day I bought it for my pesting hobby
@@eddiecahall3824 the bullpup in this video? Or which one? Im sking what is a good, first, budget friendly PCP, leaning towards bullpup. You said you had several so wondering your thoughts
@@JesusChrist_IsTruth-LoveForALL Not the one in this video no! It has too many problems and it's a money sponge. The one I'm suggesting to you is a Beeman 1358 underlever .22cal version bullpup pcp air rifle. I bought one 2 yrs ago and it's still working like it should for a fraction of the Air Venturi avenger bullpup. I purchased the one in this video when it first came out and it's no good for the money and has defects. A bunch won't hold air after you wait to get one. The Beeman bullpup 1358 underlever is the ticket to success for $258 it's really good. Then you'll need cheap chinesea high pressure hand pump on Amazon 4500 psi pump for air soft. They're good like a Vevor name one is good. Go back and look at my first message I wrote and then this one. look up the Beeman 1358 underlever bullpup pcp rifle on Airgun Depot.com and Pyramydair.com. it's a steal!
More Accuracy in the rifle as it seems
James, your comments about the trajectory of a bullpup only crossing the line of sight once is just 100% wrong. Because the scope is higher on a bullpup, it crosses the line of sight further from the muzzle but mine still cross about 20 yards from the muzzle when sighted to a 40 yard zero. My rifles cross about 10 yards sooner because their scopes are lower. A few minutes with a trajectory program like chairgun would show you the difference for your Avengers.
9:31 Uh no their not...I shoot everyday and know what I am talking about....and using the 50yd distance as the max distance the bullpup trajectory is different than a rifle...chairgun/strelok dont consider this... all they assume is bore height not barrel length or angle because airgun barrels have to point upward to meet the line the sight or every airgun would need a MOA rail or adjustable rings so please do your research and test your own gun like I have....especially how I do things which doesnt use apps
That is not an accurate test. You have one scope sitting almost in line with the barrel on the rifle and the scope 2ins over the barrel on the bull pup, which will for sure change you point POI at closer ranges.
That's a valid comparison between bullpup and traditional rifles, however. You simply wouldn't mount a scope that high on a traditional rifle, but you have to on a Bullpup to get a cheek-weld. Something to think about when choosing. Personally, I don't care for bullpups for a sporting arm; I find the balance to be poor (although most air guns also have fore-mounted reservoirs, and are also poorly balanced) and the guns clunky to handle and use. Not to mention, the higher you mount a scope, the more tilting the gun has an effect on the difference between LOS and the trajectory of the projectile.
Would a 20moa rail on the bullpup correct that?
possibly or adjustable rings
Mi hermano tengo uno y los pellets salen para todos lados, no es por regulación, será el cañón malo ????
maybe, I would either shoot it without scope and see it groups better or move the scope on the rail and try adjustable rings canted downward
Why is the bullpup not as accurate? Not grouping so well
Hey brother which one do you feel is the best, avenger rifle or the bullpup for hog hunting in .25 caliber ? Do they both share the similarities in power performance i.e. FPS and FPE ?
I think the LR is better for 50 to 100 yrds and the BP is best for 20 to 80 yrds i dont know from what distance you are willing too shoot
The bullpup is on sale right now, but, do you recomend the bullup over the rifle?
Very good video;;;;;;;;Thanks!......
I'd like to see this test with 18.13 gn. Interesting! Thanks.
👍
Aloha my friend appreciate all ur videos would you happen to know the twist rate on the .22 bullpup 🤙
1:18
@@ALLABOUTAIRGUNS thank you Braddah have a wonderful weekend 🤙
Bro does your bullpup have the regulator creep ?
Isso depende da configuração que vc fez e tbm do chumbo toda carabina tem um chumbinho que ela gosta mais
Pellets/bullets don’t go up when they leave a barrel lol, they go straight and then down. That’s physics, but it’s a common misconception.
freggin moron yes they do. otherwise i would never need holdunder. you sir win the darwin award
my ballistic calculator draws a graph of the flight path. it does go up then evens out before taking a dive. that is common sense btw and you are not cut to be a physicist. a physicist would understand the magnus effect, An intuitive understanding of the phenomenon comes from Newton's third law, that the deflective force on the body is a reaction to the deflection that the body imposes on the air-flow. The body "pushes" the air in one direction, and the air pushes the body in the other direction. In particular, a lifting force is accompanied by a downward deflection of the air-flow. It is an angular deflection in the fluid flow, aft of the body.
@@prophy4736 Wow your even more of an idiot now than just leaving it alone. It doesn't go up bud, it just doesn't. Idk how else to explain it, ask someone you trust and they will crush your dreams too lol.
I did see this talked about before.
@@prophy4736 Lol, I'm an aerospace engineer, show me the wings on that bullet giving it lift, how come it doesn't lift sideways or down? That's right, it DOES NOT LIFT! You aren't giving these backspin like an airsoft (where the speed the air sees to the BB at the bottom is higher creating a higher pressure than the top creating lift). Pellets do not do this (smooth bore or rifled).
Your sights are tilted down like a laser, and gravity is constant acceleration down for the projectile. You are simply aiming that laser line down to cross at a set distance. Notice your calculator asks what distance you sighted it in, and its offset from the bore (this gives basic trigonometry, its just a triangle). If you set your scope perfectly straight, at the muzzle it will be hitting low by precisely the bore to scope distance, and at distances it will be precisely the projectile drop plus your bore to scope distance.
interesting and good content
Thanks Nuno!
What the .... are you talking about??? 🤷🤷
🇧🇷👍
Very poor video