You can't legally sell property that has any sort of lien on it without informing the new owner of it. The salesman should be arrested for fraud and made to refund the buyer's money, plus punitive damages and any legal fees.
Yeah this shit about not being able to change the past and that those crimes were mistakes 10 years ago falls pretty flat when you're pretty much admitting to fraud yet again
Most people these days can't afford to pay for justice. If you haven't got a lot of money for legal fees in the first place, then forget it!!! Much better to just take the law into your own hands, and get vengeance that way.
The dealer let this salesman work on their lot, create a purchase agreement and drive a repossessed car off the LOT! The Dealership is culpable and should be held responsible for the con artist they allow to work there!!
@@mattk8810 a business is generally responsible for actions of their employees. This is how people get to sue companies for harm suffered at hands of employee. One would think the dealership should provide kid with title and sue the former employee/seek criminal charges for theft and fraud. Annoyed when old vids like this show up in recommend when no pinned resolution A comment says another dealership gave kid car (who knows maybe just seeking to drive traffic to that dealer or maybe factual). Another dealership giving car to kid does nothing to assuage the issues with injustice and possibly theft from the named (unnamed) dealership doing the repossing. And I would in fact argue the salesmen is acting as an agent of company and selling item thus any theft is between salesman and company unless proved kid and salesperson were in collusion.
@mattk8810 but since the kid thought the car was bought and paid for, regardless of who owned the car, if I buy a car, I want the title or at least bill of sale with serial number! That way the kid gets to keep the car and the salesman hasn't got a leg to stand on.
Thank you Steve. I was born in Texas and in over 60 years I've never heard of a freelance salesman working at a car dealership. I think that car lot needs to be investigated because this sounds SHADY.
Not so clear, this was a private sale happening on a dealership lot. He wasn't acting on behalf of the dealership. It would be like if he sold them a fake Rolex while he was on the car lot and the victims asking the dealership to be reimbursed for the fake Rolex. One has nothing to do with the other.
@USAbLaSt no, it would be like going to Rolex, and the salesman sold you a fake Rolex. He's selling it to you on location under the guise of legitimacy. A guy selling you a Rolex at a car dealership has no expectation of legitimacy. But selling a car at a car dealership does.
@@WalterSMM2 Respectfully, it was a private sale. It doesn't matter WHERE it happened. I'm sorry the purchasers assumed it was some kind of dealership-sacntioned sale where they'd be afforded dealership protections. They got scammed. Unless there's something I'm missing, that's all there is to it.
@@USAbLaSt respectfully what grinds my gears is when people want to argue points while clearly showing that they haven't watched the video. That's what you missed. Watch the video, please.
@@WalterSMM2 I did watch it all. What grinds MY gears is when "people" who are losing an argument start with the passive aggressive insults instead of arguing their point.
Years ago (in my 20s), I used AAA to find a car dealership. Bought a car, and months went by and I never got a title and I couldn't register it, so the dealership kept issuing me temporary registration cards. After having had it, I contacted AAA and told them the whole story. In the end AAA went after the dealership, who sold me a car without a title and also found out that the car was a rental (which in my state requires that I be made aware of that in writing, you guessed it, I was not). Gotta say, I love AAA to this day ❤
The dealership's claim that they're "doing everything we can to make things right" was disproven the moment that they didn't hand this young man the keys, and a clear title to the MX5 in question! They're no better than the Shyster "salesman" they had part-time, freelancing for them, AS THEIR AGENT!!!
That might not be an option. Tha car may actually belong to the bank or be consigned. What I want to know is, what happened to the $10k? Why isn't this "freelance part-time samesman" on the hook for resistution?
@@kevinm.8682 If the money was owed to the bank the bank would have repossessed the car. If there's money owed on this car the dealership should pay it off and give the kid the car they hired the con man that was working on their lot.
@@mikeydcjr Answer, never. It goes to a private impound lot. The only time it would ever end up at a dealership is if it's a "buy here pay here" type dealership where they hold the note. They not only sell the vehicle but they are the financial institution. So....if the dealership repossessed the car they must be holding the note.
The salesman was obligated to take monies provided by the kid and pay off the car so he obtained a clear title. That clear title would then be turned over to the kid. The salesman probably pocketed the money and stiffed both the kid and the dealership. Criminal actions if the cops are brought into it.
Problem is unless you already have the title, you don't fully own the vehicle (from a legal standpoint). You must get permission from wherever does hold the title to sell it in full. You can alternatively sell your "share" of that vehicle provided you have permission from both the buyer and seller and they come to an arrangement regarding any outstanding payments to clear the title. Basically what the salesman did here was sell something he technically didn't own at the time, while claiming to own it. Its actually fraud and highly illegal.
I'm thinking the lot hired this guy to work off the car. They probably switched the deal afterwards. Knowing his past, they could screw him. And he probly didn't care that much bcuz he could screw them back, as well as whoever he may come across as a customer. I would be very wary of any dealings with that lot, I'll bet they screw people over all the time and that's just how they do business.
@@mirzamay It sounds like one of those predatory car lots that sell cars they know the people can't afford, provides in house financing, then resells cars over and over after the repossessions. Be wary of any car lot that self finances rather than goes through a legit finance company.
Given the "salesman" 's record, I would not be at all surprised if that's what happened. And I'd be the whole "part-time, free lance" BS is because the Dealer is trying to weasel out of any liability in this mess. Boy, I wish I could be the judge that this comes in front of!
@@aebalc Easy check for that too is to find your states title check and it will list dealer or private owner. The fun part if a vehicle doing this Dealer -> Private Owner, Same dealer who then sells it again, and again and again. I saw a explorer that have been repoed and resold 5 times just at one dealer with what they had in it for the down payment. So 5 x 2500 = $12,500 then any $$$ from payments. Quite the scam IMO.
My sister and I were involved in an accident many years ago, the lady who hit us only had a hand written note as proof of insurance. turns out the used car dealer sold her the car and an "insurance policy" said she would get the paper work for the policy in the mail, she of course was the victim of a scam and we had to deal with making a claim against an un-insured motorist.
When I turned 18 I bought my first car from Sun City in Gainesville, FL. I paid $1,600 cash for a Mitsubishi Galant. Attempted to drive it to Boynton Beach, blew the head gasket in Port St. Lucy. I dont think I even put 200 miles on the car while owning it. I tried to sell it to a local junk yard, and thats when I found out the dealership had put a Lien on the title.... Not only did they refuse to correct the title, they also refused to refund me my $400 for the registration which they still hadnt even filed. So 3 weeks later I get a tag for a car I no longer owned. Since that day I will never go to any dealership for a cash car. Its just better to buy private party
The dealership would still be liable to the kid as the registration had to have gone through their system for it to be registered to the kid. Obviously, there's likely fraud somewhere between the dealership and their "freelance" salesman, but the onus is between them. The fact that the dealership isn't cooperating in making things right with the kid seems suspect in of itself. I'd think this is when the state AG should be called in to investigate the company as a whole for fraudulent practices.
Or it's a shady dealership doing shady things. They claim he's a "freelancer" that way when lawsuits happen they tell everyone to just go after their employee, I've seen it numerous times. I seen a big retail store get sued for hundreds of millions for firing someone for having down's syndrome. They attempted to claim the store manager was a "private contractor" and that the person needs to go after him. Of course the judge just said "nah" and verbally chastised them for even attempting to make that argument.
Likely the dealership will loose more than $10,000 in business profits from bad advertising and community good will. Would you be looking to buy your next car from them?
im canadian and, tbh if they wanted to make this right, was 1 of 2 option: 1: give the car to the kid, or 2: refund the 10K to the kid and boom story ends there, but since neither option where taken to end this on the right way screams lawsuit all over it
The dealership wasn't diligent enough to prevent a convicted felon from working on their car lot as a salesman. Can it be that no honest persons could be bothered to apply for work at that lot??? Or were those applications all turned down in favor of someone who was maybe a little more "motivated"? Better at convincing? You know... a FRAUD!
I had a dealership forge my name and take me to court saying we agreed on a $500 down payment. They won because I couldn't prove I didn't agree to it. However, the judge flat told the dealership that if he sees them in there again for this he will have them investigated because this has happened too many times with them. The judge knew they were lying but couldn't do anything because they had the "signed" document.
@@markrahm6900 Impossible! All titles must be signed and submitted to the state, they take 30-60 days so you would have to sleep there for weeks without being arrested for trespass, no notarization is of any use, you obviously have NEVER bought a car. Are you 12 or just infantile?? As long as the title is signed and payment is received you are covered but you have no clue about the law.
@@soulstripper If you had ever bought a car, private or at a dealer, you would know ONLY the state issues titles. That takes 30-60 days. The seller signs the title only. It is not official until confirmed by the state.
I've lived in DFW my whole life and I've never heard of such a thing as a 'freelance salesman'. This is suspicious as hell. I'd just bet that was some attempt by the dealership to distance themselves from whatever shady crap their salesmen pull -- "Oh he's not an agent of the company, he's not an employee, he's just Some Guy".
However, the Salesman ceased to be an 'agent of the dealership' when it was made clear that this was a private sale of his personal car ... This is unfortunate. The Dealership may have failed morally, but not legally ...
except in this case, he supposedly sold his own property (or what he claimed to be his own property) and was thus fleecing his employer as well as the customer...
If I work in a hardware store and convince someone a hammer is my personal hammer, "sell it" to them and take cash from the buyer, how am I not at fault there?
@@Jester-Riddle Wrong. The car is on the car lot, the man is working for the dealer. He wants to sell his own car he takes it home, gives the buyer the pink slip and takes the money. Did not happen.
@@diyboomboxesintexas2805 , they can also see his banking accounts in civil asset forfeiture. So it doesn't have to be cash that's on you...... Besides that the kids obviously a drug dealer anyways, working at Chick-fil-A is just a cover.
The first time my husband and I bought a new car not used, a week later the dealer called us and said that they had missed some paperwork for they loan that we needed to sign and they wanted us to go back to the dealership, we bought it in a different town 4 hours away. We said no it was their mistake they needed to come to us, another 3 weeks go by of us arguing over who is going to who for this paperwork. Finally after a month and a half they came to use and we had a car for the first 2 months free because the loan didn’t start until the day we at the paperwork.
It should be a double fine for taking advantage of an elderly man and a boy under 18. That’s why sales men and dealerships are licensed so that people don’t get scammed all the time. The dealership is in the wrong here and should give him his money back.
The dealership is innocent this time*. It was the salesman that scammed them. They will probably never see any money from him though. *It made me a little ill to say that.
@@Stephan_Rothstein And in the context of their employment. If a salesman picks your pocket the employer isn't responsible because their employment is not related to theft (unless the employer is an illegal business like a gang or organized crime syndicate).
Years ago a dealership in the city I lived in would take the car you drove in with, as a trade in, to their mechanic shop while you were looking for a new car. If you didn't find a car on the lot that you wanted to buy, the salesperson would tell you that you had to buy one of the cars on their lot because they had already sold your trade in, so they couldn't return it to you. This trick was very successful for many years because they only used it when they knew they had a buyer who didn't know the law. The owner of the dealership eventuality lost his business and went to prison for fraud and car theft.
A dealer tried to do that to me once, it was 2001 and my trade was an '84 Buick Skylark, a $300 car purchased from a friend's husband after he dragged one side of the car down guardrails while drunk. Bungee cord holding the E-brake handle up to keep the light on the dash off, power inverter plugged into the cigarette lighter with a bookshelf stereo in the backseat for tunes, Vice Grips attached to the hood release because the handle broke off... They told me they had already sold the car during the test drive, and I just laughed, asked them how they could sell the car when they didn't have the title or any signature transferring ownership? Then I told them to go get my keys so I could leave. They told me a second time that the car had been sold, so I reached into my pocket, jingled my spare set of keys in the air, and told them I was leaving in that Skylark with or without my primary set of keys - the spare set would be perfectly fine for me to go to the police and file a report of stolen property, since my only house key was on the set that had (somehow) been given to a (fictitious) new owner. As I walked out of the showroom to my rusty heap, which had been immediately parked in the "Cars Going To Auction" section in a deep muddy puddle during the test drive, they suddenly decided to return my keys and let me go. I drove to the dealership literally next door, got out of my car, and waved at the salesmen that had just attempted to scam me. I don't recall if I used all five fingers on that hand, or only one, but the 2nd dealership got my business (and gave me $1,000 trade-in value).
@@dashcamandy2242 I have to admit, what you did is probably the best response to that kind of BS. Especially the way you waved back at the would be car theif. That was the least he deserved. 👍
We had one that would loosen the drain on your radiator so that if you didn't buy a car you would leave with a leaking radiator and the car would overheat and breakdown
Hire an attorney. Used car dealerships are required to pay a bond for cases exactly like this. Kid has a claim against the dealers bond unless they fix their error. Either give him the car or pay him the 10k back. Salesman was acting as an authorized agent of the dealership. They're responsible through employing such a person and allowing him to act on their behalf.
@@kimlground206 You clearly don't know how the legal process works. An attorney filing suit would also have their costs and fees paid for by the defdant when the case is won.
I once worked with a woman who bought a used Jeep from a private owner, who had purchased it from another private owner in a different state. The problem she had? When she took possession she immediately took it to a shop to have it checked out and found out that it was literally two different models of Jeeps welded together, front and back. The mechanic put the info in writing, and she took both the paperwork and the Jeep back to the seller and luckily got her money back. No more private owners for her. "Let the buyer beware" indeed.
Pre-purchase Inspection. More people need to make this a mandatory step in purchasing a vehicle. It can save you a world of heartache, or at least a bundle of cash in negotiation.
Out of high school I worked as a Lot Boy at a new car dealership. I was sent to the bank to pay a car off and returned with a reciept, but not the title. The sales manager took that as a good time for a lesson and asked me where the title was. I gave him the receipt and he told me when I pay a car off, even if I am bloody, I must return with the title. While I have bought cars since without receiving the title right away that statement has always stuck with me.
Had a friend that purchased a car from the dealership in cash 1 week later after the used car market skyrocketed and his car nearly doubled in value the dealership reposed his car he paid for in full in cash and then left an envelope with the cash he paid for it on his porch were anyone could have stolen it and it wasn’t some small amount of cash. He took the dealership to court and won he not only got the car back but got to keep his cash
I've bought a personal vehicle from a salesman before. However immediately after the exchange of cash we transferred the title over to me. For a cash sale I think bare minimum a title in hand is a must.
Absolutely. I don't hand over money until title is in front of me and I've checked the vin against the car. Many times I sign it before giving them the cash. Anything shady with the title and I'm gone. But you'll usually find that out before seeing the car, b/c they'll try making excuses in the ad.
Ya, my friend had to walk away from a too good to be true Old VW bug that he wanted to put a Subaru motor in. Ad said clean title, show up, title wasn't even from the same state it was being sold in, and was still in the previous owners name, if recall right. IE we were from state A, Bug was selling in state B, title was from state C where not the seller, but previous owner was on title, but signed. As I recall My friend offered $300 at that point (mostly as a "Fuck you" to the seller), was turned down, and we went a town over to drown our disappointment in burgers and fries, before heading the 2 hours back home.
@@TheLoiteringKid What you are explaining usually happens when someone that buys cars for cheap, fixes them and then re sells them but doesn't want to have to bother with any paperwork involved in technically being labelled as a used car lot or business sells cars to people. In our state if you sell more than like 4 or 5 cars a year, you need a used car dealers license, so people that don't want to do this, will buy cars from people without signing the title himself, so he is essentially just acting as a transfer from seller A (original owner) to buyer C (in this situation, this would be your friend or whoever), and skipping himself, so he doesn't get labelled as a dealer.
@@TheLoiteringKid as long as the signature matches the owner its a good title. We do it all the time, in fact i have a 1973 cl350 that has not been licensed since 1980 its been from shed to shed over the decades but when i got it i also got the original title signed by the original owner. Its called an open title. Sounds like he missed out on a deal to me.
I’m a retired buy here pay here Car Dealer in South Carolina. Everything you said was 100% accurate but it’s common sense. It’s no different than buying your groceries in the store getting your receipt going home and having the police come to your house for the groceries, lol! The only thing you were incorrect about was the dealer having to have the title because he could’ve had it floor planned through a finance company which I never used because they charged monthly fees and you had to re-wholesale the car back at the auction every 90 or 120 days or whatever your agreement was if it wasn’t sold pay them off and start over. Now that I’m retired I started a few months ago doing guitar lessons and one thing you said made me jealous. Only needing three extra minutes to edit a video, lol! I spend hours sometimes on mine but that’s because I jabber a lot. I’m lucky to edit in two hours!
Steve! I’m a dealer out of Florida and it’s people like this that give us all a bad name. There is no way any dealer on the planet would not notice or let a car drive off for any longer than a test drive without the appropriate paperwork, the dealership will almost definitely be on the hook for it( as they should be)
No no legitimate salesman would ever accept a car on trade if the customer did not PRESENT THE TITLE at the POINT OF SALE ! From my own experience this means that the guy has no title and/or the machine is stolen. Either way, that salesman knew he could not sell the car if he did not have TITLE IN HAND. The man is a criminal looking for a loophole.
@@johncox2865 we will frequently take cars on trade without a physical title in hand(we can do paperwork on the back end to get it printed) but your absolutely right this guy knew what he was doing
About 30 years ago my parents neighbors had the same car my parents had and weren't making payments so a repo guy tried taking my parents car instead. I was the only one home and he wasn't in the mood to reckon with a little kid telling him he was stealing a car that someone had paid cash for so he kept on hooking it up. So I grabbed the kitchen gun and stood in the middle of the driveway. He dropped the car and came back with the cops. They weren't impressed by him reporting his own attempted auto theft.
That teen had every expectation that a car he bought from a salesperson at a car lot would be a legit sale from a legit salesperson. That car lot is at fault. They were employing that salesperson & regardless, they are responsible!
No, this whole thing was a scam to protect the car dealers license to sell cars in that state, and the state should take away that dealership license to operate.
My sister-in-law tells me about her father being an honest used-car salesman. One time he sold a car to a man and told him the car had no problems, that it was in fine shape. A month later he ran into the car buyer and asked him how the car was doing. The man told him that the transmission had failed. My sister-in-law’s father then insisted on paying for the transmission, since he had told the man the car had no problems. Despite reputation, some used car salesmen are honest!
I have worked with ethical car lots and have met salesmen like that. They are truly a rare breed. And this was before some much-needed regulations started getting harsh on auto dealerships. It's nice working with people who are honest and ethical, because that's just who they are and not because somebody made them act that way. I have also gone to dealerships that I knew were good, but wound up getting a hard sell by a salesman who would sell his own daughter into slavery if it would add to his bottom line. 😕
I'll believe the dealership if/when their salesman is arrested and charged with felony grand-theft auto. Because the salesman didn't report the car stolen over those five months. And the dealership did note that the vehicle was sold, but to the salesman? Who didn't report it stolen? Why not? Because he sold it? Or he let the teen take it for a five-month test-drive? - Neither the salesman *nor* the dealership are giving stories that pass any form of logical scrutiny. Obviously it is a scam, and it is either a little bit of salesman and a little bit of dealership, or it is *completely* the salesman, and none of the dealership. But there's no way in hell that the vehicle was "not-recorded-as-being-sold", yet was also missing for five months. That's beyond retarded. That's Jussie-Smollett levels of BS.
Sounded like it was the dealerships. The dealership had previously done a dealership financed sale to the salesman. The salesman sold the car to the kid on the grounds that the title will be sent to kid (assuming after he pays it off with part of kids payment ). However…. The salesman claims it was paid off and it was the dealership that was at fault for never supplying a title
He didn’t report it stolen because it wasn’t stolen and wasn’t trying to pass it off as stolen. The salesman claimed it was paid off by him and was just awaiting the title to send to the kid. The dealership claims it wasn’t paid off by the salesman and that is who they thought they were repossessing it from.
@@48Hybrid70 That's my point: it wasn't stolen. And the title-transfer doesn't take 5 months. And the dealership didn't think it was repossessing the vehicle from the salesman who still works there by going to the kid's house. It doesn't make any sense at all. The salesman is scamming, or the dealership is scamming, or they're both scamming. But the story as they tell it right now? *It makes less sense than Jussie Smollet's BS.*
The dealer should give the car to the kid who payed for it, and fight the rest out with the salesman in court for the money owned. Or the salesman should refund the kid in full plus interest.
Con men ARE nice; their livelihood depends upon it. If the "freelance, part-time salesman" arrangement was valid at the time, I expect you are right about the status between the dealer and the teen. The dealer can recover his losses from the con man.
It is not unknown for beginning salesmen to work on commission only and no draw on future commissions. While they may be called freelance they still represent the business and the business is liable for their actions.
Wheres the title and or bill of sale? Dept of revenue might have some interest in said dealership shenanigans.....there's a paper trail that should prove buyers victim status
This is a "classic" dealership shell game and has been going on for decades almost exclusively in big cities like Chicago! My Dad was a car dealer from Tennessee and this was pulled on him in 1969 at a dealer in Chicago making a wholesale purchase with the salesman "walking" the purchase through to expedite and leaving with his money! My Dad's uncle was with him and saw the salesman leave walking the wrong direction! He ran to my Dad and they got on a payphone calling my Dad's cousin who happened to be a Police Captain in that very precinct! He was aware of the "operation " and nabbed the guy 2 blocks away ! It was known that the Dealer was involved but no one could prove it but at least he got his cash back!! This type operation has been going on since at least the 1950s probably longer!!
I guarantee you the salesperson showed the customers a bunch of cars that he knew they wouldn't want (didn't meet the criteria they had listed, etc.) and then said "but hey I've got this one car here and it's mine so just pay me" And now they say it was his because of a prior business deal... yeah, a business deal that he could pretend any car was his so that they could pull this exact scam...
Another good reminder when you're at a car dealership: If you don't actually need the car right away, always be willing to walk away the moment a deal looks remotely fishy. There are probably other places willing to sell you a car, and lots of cars for sale in your area, I promise you.
Used car salesmen are universally untrustworthy. Even in Australia, where, by the way, there's no such thing as a 'title' certificate for a vehicle) Bill of sale or receipt for the payment would be it. And no, you don't need that to register it either, or transfer the rego to you. Registration certificate states clearly that it's registered to the 'operator' and doesn't convey title to the vehicle if they register it. Only real estate has title certification. But I digress, went and looked at a used car for my daughter and her partner. Was a type they liked, price was close so they were negotiating price and the like. While they did, I went through the glovebox and it had the service records, which showed a diagnosed by unrepaired engine issue (timing chain, for which that model were notorious) and an estimate of fifteen hundred dollars to fix it, plus some other, lesser but significant issues. Showed this to the salesman who claimed not to be aware of it (yeah, right). Offered to drop it by a thousand but I just looked at her and shook my head and we walked out. Went to another, different make/model, but again, what they were after (seven seater basically) and went into negotiations. During this the dealer disclosed that it was an insurance right off, but had been repaired. Went over the vehicle and we were able to discover that it was simply hail damage that meant all the glass required replacement and some minor roof damage fixed, insurer wrote it off because of the age. After discussing it with their own insurer, they agreed to buy the vehicle at a reduced price with an extended mechanical warranty thrown in. So they bought it and it's been no trouble most of two years later. So they got a bargain basically. But if you don't know the ins and outs, you can wind up with all kinds of problems. Caveat Emptor.
Ha ha, I’ve watched a few of your videos…and just watched two today. You last name was ringing a bell, then I focused in on the Tucker and Chrysler turbine car 1/18th die casts on the shelf behind you. Oh! You wrote the book “Preston Tucker and…” I just double checked and it is you! Thanks for writing such a great book, I’ll have to buy the Turbine car book as well!
Managers at another dealership who heard about Jonathan Fredricks' story decided to make things right. Frank Kent Motor Co., which has three General Motors stores and a used-vehicle store in the Dallas area, replaced the 16-year-old's Mazda with a Kia Soul.
A used Kia Soul is a low value vehicle. But still nice of them to give the kid a functional vehicle. They might get to write the gift off as a promotional expense.
I definitely think the dealership should be on the hook for this. I fail to see how, from a legal perspective, this is any different than someone walking into a clothing store, paying a clerk for their purchase, and the clerk pocketing the cash. You wouldn't go after the purchaser to get the clothing back, because they paid an agent of the business a fair market price for the item, with the reasonable belief that they had completed a valid purchase.
The difference is who owned the article. In your scenario it would be the salesperson selling her personally owned scarf to a customer. If someone held a lien to that scarf - they would repo the scarf. Nobody went after the minor. They repossessed a vehicle - one that did not belong to the the minor since he didn’t have title.
@@philr6829 Irrelevant. The person selling the truck had the right to sell the truck. Whether they presented it as a personal sale of their own property, or the dealership, in both scenarios that person had the authority to sell it. The fact that they did not then give the proceeds to the owner (the dealership) is an issue between the salesman and the dealership.
@@tedgovostis7351 wrong. The dealership was NOT the owner. They were the lien holder. The private party (salesman) was the owner. The lien holders only recourse was repossessing the collateral.
@@philr6829 at the 2 minute mark, Steve says that the dealership claims to have already repossessed the truck from the salesman. IE that means the dealership was the current owner.
@@tedgovostis7351 I believe you misunderstood the timeline there. They were talking about the repo from the kids possession, otherwise it would have been a stolen vehicle and handled differently.
I started a slow clap that built into a roaring applause and a standing ovation when you reiterated that you did this in one take(In my head, I’m alone). Then I laughed at myself thinking: what’s a good job for someone that can do that besides actor; Lawyer! Love you, keep it coming
I bought a car from an insurance company through Copart, the largest insurance auctioneers in the world. I got a copy of the bill of sale by email and the title was supposed to accompany the car to the border for export. The car showed up with no paperwork and customs impounded it. It sat in a customs lot (at my expense) for two weeks with the windows down. Copart wasn't sure if they lost the title or the carrier did, but it took two weeks to get another one to the export office at customs. During that time I paid thousands of dollars for extra storage and shipping only to receive a car that had thousands of dollars of interior water damage. My insurance company wouldn't cover it because I hadn't taken possession of the car when the damage occurred. Worst experience ever!
Then it should have been the company that you bought it from responsibility they were supposed to include all of that and they felt too so it should have been something they paid for also why would they ship it with the windows rolled down
Great story and lesson. Adding to the lesson... As a former car salesman, EVERY dealership I've ever worked for has had a clause in their employment agreement that says you are NOT ALLOWED TO SELL YOUR PERSONAL VEHICLE to a customer coming on the lot to shop for dealer vehicles.
We bought a 2019 Toyota Prius from a large dealership in Phoenix, AZ in Jan 2020 and it took them 5 months to send us the title. The said the title was at a dealership in Flagstaff where the car had come from. It's only a 2.5 hour drive from Phoenix...
A similar thing happened to a friend of mine when we were in high school. He went to a dealer close to us and looked at mustang they had there. The salesmen said "oh that's my car but I'll sell it to you." My friend ended up buying the car from him. Here's the thing. The salesmen bought the car from the dealership and never paid them for it. My friend got to keep the car though and the guy was fired for doing what he did. Gotta be careful out there. You never know who'll rip you off.
I worked at a used auto for like five years. He paid me like $10 an hour, and he only took cash for his cars, but all all we would do is sign the paperwork and transfer the stuff over, but no one ever asked to look and doublecheck.
It seems either the salesman owned the car and could sell it so it belongs to the kid, or the dealer owned the car and the salesman sold it as their agent (regardless of any lies he may have told the customer) in which case the kid owns the car.
Exactly. The actions of an authorized agent of a business within the scope of that business (e.g., selling cars at a dealer's lot) are the actions of that business itself, by legal definition.
How about if salesman owned it, but dealership had a lien on it because money was still owed? That seems to be what the actual situation was: Salesman owned it but didn't have a clear title. It's like if you pay someone cash for a house, without doing a title search, and without ensuring that they pay off their mortgage with the proceeds. The bank can still foreclose you, the mortgage is attached to the property, not to the person, although loan notes also usually make the borrower personally responsible in addition.
These are the issues I have been waiting through this video to be dealt with. I am not a lawyer and I am not from Texas, but I guessed that the dealership was liable because the salesman was acting as their agent. I just got to the part of the video where Lehto is dealing with this issue and he thinks the dealership is on the hook because the salesman was their agent. Regardless, I am amazed that for some amount of money less than $10,000 (assuming that the guy that had sold the car had made some payments), the dealer would have gone to the wall over this. Does bad publicity mean nothing to this dealer? Does legal bills to fight a case they look like they would lose mean nothing to this dealership? Does just simple human decency mean nothing to this dealer? Maybe not, they are used car salesmen.
Every time I have paid cash for a truck I walked away with signed title in hand, or went with the owner to the Tax Office to transfer. That's the right and only way because of insurance liability...
The first red flag for me would have been the bit about him 'sending the title' later. One thing MY Grandfather taught me from before I even bought my first car was ALWAYS demand a clear title up front for whatever vehicle you're buying from anyone! That said, that dealership is responsible for whoever is selling vehicles off their lot, whether they be 'freelance', full-time or whatever. If they have access to the office where the paperwork is done, then *they're agents for said dealer.* If a vehicle is sold from that lot and paid in full according to a Bill of Sale, that is a binding contract, and legally the dealer can't just go and repossess said vehicle, no matter what the circumstances are between the dealer and the salesman.😉
Once traded in a Chevy truck to Trade Winds Ford in Corpus Christi Tx. 2 months later State cops show up at my work asking questions. Apparently the dealer resold my truck without having it registered and it ended up in the Rio Grand river near Laredo Tx loaded with drugs. Luckily I still had my purchase and trade in agreement in my glove box of the new car.
Got my plates and insurance the last vehicle I bought at a dealer, title doesn't get to my hands tilli pay off the loan. Get the paperwork to take in and get the plates, etc.
They claim he’s “a freelance part time salesman,” so they can deny responsibility for any of his scams once they are found out! Seems like he’s a part time salesman but a full time scammer, and considering he still works there, I’d think those running the dealership are just as crooked as he is!
It's a very common practice, even among multi-billion dollar companies. A seen a case in which someone with down's syndrome fired for having it, and when they lost their case they claimed the store manager should be held responsible because he was a "private contractor". Luckily the judge just told them "nah". Mind you this is one of the biggest retail companies in the world.
Except that doesn't work in this case. They are Liable for ALL Agents they hired, no matter HOW they are hired or for how long. He works there, period, he is their Agent. This would be a different situation if he was a 'Former' Agent, no longer working there, and came in that day to fraud people out of their cash by illegally pretending to be an Agent when he wasn't. But no, he was a full fledged Agent. And thus the Dealership by LAW are 100% Responcable for him. If they didn't want to be, they shouldn't have hired him, nor have such horrible hiring practices. Being a Freelancer or Part Time does NOT change the fact they are an Employee and Agent. The Dealership would still be punished by law, as should other companies.
The kid is the victim of theft by fraud. However, the dealer could be liable for allowing the shady salesman to work out of their lot. They are still responsible for his actions while he is working there. The moment the salesman said it was his personal car, he should have shown a title. The kid was inexperienced and his grandfather wasn't very swift.
How come the dealer went after the kid instead of the salesman that did all the wrong things? I had a similar situation when my Uncle purchased a TV from a store and dealt with the repair man. Turns out the repair man was selling TVs he was stealing from the store. The store tried to get the TV back, I took them to court and won. The repair man was an Agent of the store and therefore respocible for the crime and had to make amends.
Because the teen was technically driving a car he did not own. The car was still the legal property of the dealership, and they recovered it from the entity that had it.
Dealer didn't go after the kid, they just took the car back. And they left the salesman alone because they can't take a car away from someone who is too broke to have a car.
@@NeverEvenThere Depends on whether the law sees this as an arms length private deal or a "sale by consignment". You could argue the latter because the salesperson was technically an agent of the car yard selling his own car on consignment.
Another dealership gave him a new vehicle. This dealership is called Frank something that has been in business since the '30. So if you have a local dealership that's name is Frank ???, that has been around for ever, that is who you should be doing business with.
I had a relative who after his wife died let his new (a few years later) GF use his wife's car because she did not have a vehicle to drive at the time. About a month later he got a call from a car dealership asking him to come in and sign over the title as she had 'traded' his car for another one. My relative explained the car did not belong to the woman and he had merely loaned it to her to use. He picked up HIS vehicle later that day, and was very angry that a woman he showed kindness to would try to sell his wife's vehicle which held great sentimental attachment to him due to it having been his dead wife's and the memories that were associated with it. What surprised me is that the car dealership took the vehicle and let her drive her 'new' vehicle away without checking the ownership. It says a lot about how many Dealerships operate I think, as does this story.
I've had legitimate sales from dealers where I was not shown the old title and had to wait for one to be mailed. The kid should have been given the car back while it played out in court.
The only way the dealership comes out without effluent all over their uh.... 'good name' is handing the kid his car keys back after they detail it, change the oil etc & fill the tank with gas and help him go after the 'salesman'. I'd guess that this isn't the first time some hanky-panky has happened on that lot... with or without that salesman.
you also gotta watch out for repo guy's that just try to grab a vehicle based on description ALONE , i had a pickup bought and paid for i had the title at home and plated and insured i was at work and somebody said hey your truck is getting towed when i went out the guy was argumentative that he was ordered to repo it, i was calm and asked how he intended to repo a privately owned vehicle and he got angry and said leave him alone it was getting done and that i should PAY MY BILLS he never once checked the vin registration or anything , so i got into MY TRUCK AND PULLED OUT MY 12 GAUGE SHOTGUN and the at the time rare cell phone called the cops and reported that he was trying to steal my truck he SOON calmed down and i could have had him arrested but settled for a lesson learned i bet he started checking b4 hooking after that.
I had something very similar happen to me in Tennessee, I found a 2007 Colorado that I wanted to buy off a local lot, sat down with a salesman and we signed a ton of paperwork. I was financing from a credit union, $12,500, at that time I was told the title would be coming in the mail along with the plate. I returned to the lot a month later where I was told "should be here any day" never missed a payment to my credit union and had it insured the whole time. The court house was giving me temp tags every month too. This went on for a year, yes, you read that right! In the meantime the "dealer" moved twice! The credit union then informed me that they were bringing suit against the dealer. As soon as they filed, the title was produced, needless to say, the fly by night "dealer" was done, and unsure if charges were brought but damn well should have been!!
@@denn606 YES. Private party = clear title in the seller's name (seller = the person you're dealing with not a "relative" or "neighbor", etc) and in hand !! Just ask before you even look at a car and you'll save a lot of time.
This stuff is just mind-blowing to me Where i live, if you don't have the title, not only does the car not belong to you and if the cops stop you they might even think it's stolen and hold your car until it's clear But also you cannot get license plates nor insurance No title = no insurance= no plates = cannot drive the car So this stuff really can't happen here and everyone knows that without the title it's like you don't even have a car
They not only owe the young man his vehicle, they also owe damages for lost use of the vehicle. I would recommend that this dealership be seized and forcibly closed by the state of Texas for illegal business practices.
You ever saw a WHOLE municipal court/police station CHAINED AND PADLOCKED? I HAVE....KILLEEN TEXAS...90s....lock big as baskeball....stainless steel chain.....Orange stickers 11x8...by order of DOJ.....for corruption.....etc.....please contact the nearest county courthouse designated..... 1992-1995 time frame.... Outside of FtHood US ARMY base . So ......
If you represented yourself as an employee/agent of OP and OP allowed you to? Yes, absolutely they would. That's what this boils down to. The salesman _works for them,_ which makes the dealership _legally responsible_ for his actions on the lot.
Maybe I'm not "most people" but the very first thing I do before buying a car from either a private party OR a dealer is to ask to see the title and I record the VIN. I check the VIN on the title with the VIN on the car AND then I take it down to my local police dept and ask them if the VIN is clean and the title is legit. Then and only then do I seriously discuss buying the car.
Find the salesman and arrest him for Fruad how do they buy a car for cash without a title that is really stupid the salesman is a liar he sold a car without a title this salesman is a scam artist but the dealership is liable the salesman was working for them freelancer or not never ever buy a car without seeing the title and making sure there is no lien holder or you have a lien release
The dealerships representative sold the vehicle. He is responsible for this, not the kid. The car belongs to the kid since the salesman WAS authorized to sell the car since he works for the dealership. Looks like the dealership made a bad call.
When I was 19 and shopping for my first car, I brought my older brother with me. The salesman tried to get me to buy his personal car. My brother pointed out that it was a respray and convinced me to leave and try another dealer, without looking at any other cars there. I guess I should thank my brother for getting me away. Edit, I just remembered, at the second used car lot, I got into a truck to test drive it, the salesman insisted he had to go with me. As I turned the key, he turned the radio on full blast. So loud I couldn't hear the engine. We left that place immediately. The third lot sold me a used truck that I drove for ten years.
I went to by my first car. They had to put oil in the engine prior to starting. Once started a cloud of blue oil smoke came out of the exhaust. Salesman said that was just some oil spilled on the manifold from just filling the crankcase. That cannot happen like that unless at least some full gasket failure. Waked out of there and bought a used 1st generation Camaro elsewhere.
So the salesman knowingly committed fraud the kid need to have him arrested and sue the dealership for fraud too.. new car 30k make the kid feel better
$10,000 saved up in one year from Chic-fil-a? Man, that kid must have truly busted himself to reach that, even if living with grandpa and not being charged any rent an stuff. That's commitment to the savings.
Well, $10,000 over the course of 56 weeks is only $187.57 per week. This is assuming that he put his _entire_ savings in the bank and didn't spend some of it. At minimum wage for Texas, that's 25 hours a week, but I get the feeling he probably made a little more than MW. I'd be guessing like $8? something like that? That'd be about 24h once you consider taxes being taken out. I could easily see that being do-able.
@@Dhalin Chick Fil A pays about 17-19 an hour in Colorado. They outperform nearly every other chain, and everyone gets Sunday off. This alone saves each store many hours of scheduling and rescheduling conflicts, people quitting because they need Sunday off. They forego a lot of potential profit to have a smoother-running operation, and a better work environment for HS and College kids. And they are not sleazy, The places are immaculate, well maintained, and the owners WORK the locations. No absentee investor-owners missing in action.
@@citylockapolytechnikeyllcc7936 Well, if they are paying THAT much, then yeah, this kid wouldn't break a sweat getting the $10k for the car. I mean, dude, $17 an hour is more than double the figures I posted above. I never meant to say anything negative about CFA, I've never eaten there. I was just assuming MW or something near it to propose a "worst case scenario".
Most businesses are responsible for the actions of their employees. "Freelance" or not. The fact that they refer to him as freelance, is suspicious. It means they are trying to avoid being responsible for their employees.
He was on their property, selling their cars. Whatever the arrangement between the dealer and the salesman, the dealer is responsible. Given the salesman's history, allowing him to act as their agent was irresponsible and negligent.
yeah but the kid wasn't buying from the dealer; the dealer was not a party to the contract. if the employee robs a bank does the employer pay for that too?
@@Burt1038 the dealer certainly was a party to the contract. They held the lien on the car. They then repossessed the car. The sale also happened on their lot. If McDonald's employees brought in roadkill and cooked it, then sold it to unsuspecting customers, McDonald's wouldn't be off the hook for what the employees did.
@@michaellowe3665 the kid and gramps were not "unsuspecting customers", they knew they were buying from the salesman and not the dealer. Why is that so hard to understand? Also, no the dealer is not a party to the contract. I guarantee they are not named anywhere in that contract between the salesman and the kid. Having a lien against the vehicle in question is irrelevant to the point.
I bought a Mazda with cash from a Mazda dealer. When I tried to trade it in on a new car years later I was told it had a lien on it. The lien holder was some S&L that had since gone out of business. Took me a lot of effort to get the fraudulent lien off of it.
A popular scam around here is. A person owns a car free and clear, files for a lost title, uses the replacement title to get a title loan, then sells the car to a unsuspecting buyer and gives them the not lost title. The buyer is unaware of the lein until they try to transfer title at DMV. Meanwhile seller disappears with cash, and repo company takes the vehicle
I think this mess is why the dealership is holding the car. One of their salesmen sold them the car and pocketed the cash effectively. What may happen is the kid gets the car and the dealership has to get the money out of the bankrupt salesman. (Whole other can of worms there.)
I think in a civil suit the car dealership will lose.... Because they created a situation where their dealership would imply trustworthiness, and then they allowed a convicted felon to wander around their lot making car deals.
Stupid teenager and his grandfather. If you pay cash and outright purchase the car wouldn't there be a lot of paperwork that is prepared by other employees of the dealership? How about the sales tax Paperwork? I would not leave without the title as well!
@@LaserD200 It's more the exception than the rule that you get title at the time of purchase, especially at a dealership, but often on private party sales too since payoffs are often involved and the bank is holding title.
The dealership being held liable would make sense to me. Let's say I work at a 7-Eleven and I'm mopping the floors. I don't put a wet floor sign up and someone trips and hurts themselves on my wet floor. That person isn't suing me; They're suing 7-Eleven since it's their property and I'm an appointed agent, AKA an employee, who is going about the business I was hired to conduct. Sure, 7-Eleven is going to say "What the hell, Alex? Why wasn't the wet floor sign put up?" and they would most likely fire me because I have put them in a position where they may have to pay out tens of thousands of dollars in medical expenses alone, not including legal fees and court appearances. It makes me sad to see that the kid got scammed and I hope he at least gets his money back, if not the car itself. But overall, I want to thank you Mr. Lehto for teaching us what to look for when purchasing a vehicle from both private sellers and car lots.
Update. Another dealership saw the story and donated a car at no cost to the teen. Good job Frank Kent Motor Company for stepping up for this kid
Thanks for the update
Cool! The good publicity will be worth the price of the car!
Nice!
Who is the Dealership ripped this kid off??? Good job Mr. Frank Kent!!
I'd still be getting that money
You can't legally sell property that has any sort of lien on it without informing the new owner of it. The salesman should be arrested for fraud and made to refund the buyer's money, plus punitive damages and any legal fees.
Yeah this shit about not being able to change the past and that those crimes were mistakes 10 years ago falls pretty flat when you're pretty much admitting to fraud yet again
"bankruptcy"... lot should loose their license for hiring such a professional.
If the young man's last name was Gotti, this story would have never made the news.
Most people these days can't afford to pay for justice. If you haven't got a lot of money for legal fees in the first place, then forget it!!! Much better to just take the law into your own hands, and get vengeance that way.
Justice costs money, doing the right thing isn't free pal, fuck you pay me
NEVER leave a personal sale for a vehicle WITHOUT a title.
That salesman owes the kid $10,000 plus any court costs.
The dealership owned the car. Listen to the damn video.
The idiot still owes them $10000@@mattk8810
The dealer let this salesman work on their lot, create a purchase agreement and drive a repossessed car off the LOT! The Dealership is culpable and should be held responsible for the con artist they allow to work there!!
@@mattk8810 a business is generally responsible for actions of their employees.
This is how people get to sue companies for harm suffered at hands of employee.
One would think the dealership should provide kid with title and sue the former employee/seek criminal charges for theft and fraud.
Annoyed when old vids like this show up in recommend when no pinned resolution
A comment says another dealership gave kid car (who knows maybe just seeking to drive traffic to that dealer or maybe factual). Another dealership giving car to kid does nothing to assuage the issues with injustice and possibly theft from the named (unnamed) dealership doing the repossing.
And I would in fact argue the salesmen is acting as an agent of company and selling item thus any theft is between salesman and company unless proved kid and salesperson were in collusion.
@mattk8810 but since the kid thought the car was bought and paid for, regardless of who owned the car, if I buy a car, I want the title or at least bill of sale with serial number! That way the kid gets to keep the car and the salesman hasn't got a leg to stand on.
"I'm just trying to make it right."
Then give back the 10k.
Or give back the car with a cleared title! 💁
For real, that stealership should take it up with their free-fraudster salesman, not with the customer!
@@LRM12o8 The dealership should lose its license, Fraud is a serious crime.
That doesn't fix it as now he has to find a car of lkq and that's not going to happen easily
Thank you Steve. I was born in Texas and in over 60 years I've never heard of a freelance salesman working at a car dealership. I think that car lot needs to be investigated because this sounds SHADY.
I doubt it’s legal to classify them as an independent contractor.
DITTO!
Yep probably think they’re slick and doing it to avoid payroll taxes etc
Aren't all car salespeople "freelance"? I mean, they all only work on commission, right?
AYYY
Law is pretty clear on this: business place that allows apparent agent to act in its behalf is bound by the actions of that agent.
Not so clear, this was a private sale happening on a dealership lot. He wasn't acting on behalf of the dealership. It would be like if he sold them a fake Rolex while he was on the car lot and the victims asking the dealership to be reimbursed for the fake Rolex. One has nothing to do with the other.
@USAbLaSt no, it would be like going to Rolex, and the salesman sold you a fake Rolex. He's selling it to you on location under the guise of legitimacy. A guy selling you a Rolex at a car dealership has no expectation of legitimacy. But selling a car at a car dealership does.
@@WalterSMM2 Respectfully, it was a private sale. It doesn't matter WHERE it happened. I'm sorry the purchasers assumed it was some kind of dealership-sacntioned sale where they'd be afforded dealership protections. They got scammed. Unless there's something I'm missing, that's all there is to it.
@@USAbLaSt respectfully what grinds my gears is when people want to argue points while clearly showing that they haven't watched the video. That's what you missed. Watch the video, please.
@@WalterSMM2 I did watch it all. What grinds MY gears is when "people" who are losing an argument start with the passive aggressive insults instead of arguing their point.
Years ago (in my 20s), I used AAA to find a car dealership. Bought a car, and months went by and I never got a title and I couldn't register it, so the dealership kept issuing me temporary registration cards. After having had it, I contacted AAA and told them the whole story. In the end AAA went after the dealership, who sold me a car without a title and also found out that the car was a rental (which in my state requires that I be made aware of that in writing, you guessed it, I was not). Gotta say, I love AAA to this day ❤
sales person should get criminally charged
The dealership's claim that they're "doing everything we can to make things right" was disproven the moment that they didn't hand this young man the keys, and a clear title to the MX5 in question! They're no better than the Shyster "salesman" they had part-time, freelancing for them, AS THEIR AGENT!!!
That might not be an option. Tha car may actually belong to the bank or be consigned. What I want to know is, what happened to the $10k? Why isn't this "freelance part-time samesman" on the hook for resistution?
They hired this con man they should pay the consequence. Give the kid the car and a clear title.
@@kevinm.8682 If the money was owed to the bank the bank would have repossessed the car. If there's money owed on this car the dealership should pay it off and give the kid the car they hired the con man that was working on their lot.
@@1stamendmentmedia464 Would the bank store the car at the same auto lot?
@@mikeydcjr Answer, never. It goes to a private impound lot. The only time it would ever end up at a dealership is if it's a "buy here pay here" type dealership where they hold the note. They not only sell the vehicle but they are the financial institution. So....if the dealership repossessed the car they must be holding the note.
The salesman was obligated to take monies provided by the kid and pay off the car so he obtained a clear title. That clear title would then be turned over to the kid. The salesman probably pocketed the money and stiffed both the kid and the dealership. Criminal actions if the cops are brought into it.
Problem is unless you already have the title, you don't fully own the vehicle (from a legal standpoint). You must get permission from wherever does hold the title to sell it in full. You can alternatively sell your "share" of that vehicle provided you have permission from both the buyer and seller and they come to an arrangement regarding any outstanding payments to clear the title.
Basically what the salesman did here was sell something he technically didn't own at the time, while claiming to own it. Its actually fraud and highly illegal.
I'm thinking the lot hired this guy to work off the car. They probably switched the deal afterwards. Knowing his past, they could screw him. And he probly didn't care that much bcuz he could screw them back, as well as whoever he may come across as a customer. I would be very wary of any dealings with that lot, I'll bet they screw people over all the time and that's just how they do business.
@@mirzamay It sounds like one of those predatory car lots that sell cars they know the people can't afford, provides in house financing, then resells cars over and over after the repossessions. Be wary of any car lot that self finances rather than goes through a legit finance company.
Given the "salesman" 's record, I would not be at all surprised if that's what happened. And I'd be the whole "part-time, free lance" BS is because the Dealer is trying to weasel out of any liability in this mess. Boy, I wish I could be the judge that this comes in front of!
@@aebalc Easy check for that too is to find your states title check and it will list dealer or private owner. The fun part if a vehicle doing this Dealer -> Private Owner, Same dealer who then sells it again, and again and again. I saw a explorer that have been repoed and resold 5 times just at one dealer with what they had in it for the down payment. So 5 x 2500 = $12,500 then any $$$ from payments. Quite the scam IMO.
My sister and I were involved in an accident many years ago, the lady who hit us only had a hand written note as proof of insurance. turns out the used car dealer sold her the car and an "insurance policy" said she would get the paper work for the policy in the mail, she of course was the victim of a scam and we had to deal with making a claim against an un-insured motorist.
When I turned 18 I bought my first car from Sun City in Gainesville, FL. I paid $1,600 cash for a Mitsubishi Galant. Attempted to drive it to Boynton Beach, blew the head gasket in Port St. Lucy. I dont think I even put 200 miles on the car while owning it. I tried to sell it to a local junk yard, and thats when I found out the dealership had put a Lien on the title....
Not only did they refuse to correct the title, they also refused to refund me my $400 for the registration which they still hadnt even filed. So 3 weeks later I get a tag for a car I no longer owned.
Since that day I will never go to any dealership for a cash car. Its just better to buy private party
Same thing. If you pay cash for a car don't hand over the cash until they hand you a clean title.
You mein SinCity
The dealership would still be liable to the kid as the registration had to have gone through their system for it to be registered to the kid. Obviously, there's likely fraud somewhere between the dealership and their "freelance" salesman, but the onus is between them. The fact that the dealership isn't cooperating in making things right with the kid seems suspect in of itself. I'd think this is when the state AG should be called in to investigate the company as a whole for fraudulent practices.
Or it's a shady dealership doing shady things. They claim he's a "freelancer" that way when lawsuits happen they tell everyone to just go after their employee, I've seen it numerous times. I seen a big retail store get sued for hundreds of millions for firing someone for having down's syndrome. They attempted to claim the store manager was a "private contractor" and that the person needs to go after him. Of course the judge just said "nah" and verbally chastised them for even attempting to make that argument.
Likely the dealership will loose more than $10,000 in business profits from bad advertising and community good will. Would you be looking to buy your next car from them?
im canadian and, tbh if they wanted to make this right, was 1 of 2 option: 1: give the car to the kid, or 2: refund the 10K to the kid and boom story ends there, but since neither option where taken to end this on the right way screams lawsuit all over it
The dealership wasn't diligent enough to prevent a convicted felon from working on their car lot as a salesman. Can it be that no honest persons could be bothered to apply for work at that lot??? Or were those applications all turned down in favor of someone who was maybe a little more "motivated"? Better at convincing? You know... a FRAUD!
I had a dealership forge my name and take me to court saying we agreed on a $500 down payment. They won because I couldn't prove I didn't agree to it. However, the judge flat told the dealership that if he sees them in there again for this he will have them investigated because this has happened too many times with them. The judge knew they were lying but couldn't do anything because they had the "signed" document.
As soon as the salesman asked for the check to be made out to himself, I would have walked.
If I buy a car for cash, paid in full, I'd better have the title, a notarized bill of sale, and both sets of keys.
No title no sale. Also should name and shame the Car Dealership.
@@markrahm6900 Impossible! All titles must be signed and submitted to the state, they take 30-60 days so you would have to sleep there for weeks without being arrested for trespass, no notarization is of any use, you obviously have NEVER bought a car. Are you 12 or just infantile?? As long as the title is signed and payment is received you are covered but you have no clue about the law.
@@soulstripper If you had ever bought a car, private or at a dealer, you would know ONLY the state issues titles. That takes 30-60 days. The seller signs the title only. It is not official until confirmed by the state.
Apparently the salesman claimed it was a private sale, not a dealership sale.
I've lived in DFW my whole life and I've never heard of such a thing as a 'freelance salesman'. This is suspicious as hell. I'd just bet that was some attempt by the dealership to distance themselves from whatever shady crap their salesmen pull -- "Oh he's not an agent of the company, he's not an employee, he's just Some Guy".
Salesman owes the kid $9,800, and should face charges for fraud.
You said exactly what I thought. The dealer is liable for anything the salesman agrees to as an agent of the dealer.
However, the Salesman ceased to be an 'agent of the dealership' when it was made clear that this was a private sale of his personal car ... This is unfortunate. The Dealership may have failed morally, but not legally ...
except in this case, he supposedly sold his own property (or what he claimed to be his own property) and was thus fleecing his employer as well as the customer...
If I work in a hardware store and convince someone a hammer is my personal hammer, "sell it" to them and take cash from the buyer, how am I not at fault there?
@@Jester-Riddle Wrong. The car is on the car lot, the man is working for the dealer. He wants to sell his own car he takes it home, gives the buyer the pink slip and takes the money. Did not happen.
"Tie him to the bumper and drag him."
It's a good thing the teen wasn't pulled over by a cop on his way to the dealership or his money could've been seized in a civil asset forfeiture.
Then the police department could have bought the car, impounded the salesman and scored a field goal in the 5th quarter.
They paid qith a cashiers check
@@diyboomboxesintexas2805 , they can also see his banking accounts in civil asset forfeiture. So it doesn't have to be cash that's on you...... Besides that the kids obviously a drug dealer anyways, working at Chick-fil-A is just a cover.
Then then next year, the IRS will audit the kid and accuse him of "structuring".... This kid just can't win!
No he paid with a cashier check not cash.
The salesman should be charged with Theft By Deception and Fraud if Texas has those charges.
The first time my husband and I bought a new car not used, a week later the dealer called us and said that they had missed some paperwork for they loan that we needed to sign and they wanted us to go back to the dealership, we bought it in a different town 4 hours away. We said no it was their mistake they needed to come to us, another 3 weeks go by of us arguing over who is going to who for this paperwork. Finally after a month and a half they came to use and we had a car for the first 2 months free because the loan didn’t start until the day we at the paperwork.
Your grammar is very sloppy
@@justindean-uo5cb As is your punctuation.
@@justindean-uo5cb I didn’t know this was elementary school grammar class.
When you're used to never having an intellingent thing to add to a conversation...you become a grammer nazi....hahahahq loser@justindean-uo5cb
@@popbre3 To be fair, you're generally expected to have a reasonable grasp on grammar by the time you leave school.
It should be a double fine for taking advantage of an elderly man and a boy under 18. That’s why sales men and dealerships are licensed so that people don’t get scammed all the time. The dealership is in the wrong here and should give him his money back.
CFA says treble, not double
The dealership is innocent this time*. It was the salesman that scammed them. They will probably never see any money from him though.
*It made me a little ill to say that.
@@charlesesseltine7054 The dealership is responsible since the salesman was acting as an agent for the dealership and at the dealership's location.
Def needs to be an aggravation for fraud that takes advantage of vulnerable people; minors, the elderly, disabled, immigrants ect
@@Stephan_Rothstein And in the context of their employment. If a salesman picks your pocket the employer isn't responsible because their employment is not related to theft (unless the employer is an illegal business like a gang or organized crime syndicate).
Doesn't that make the salesman guilty of fraud?
Allegedly... (yes)
Never trust a used car salesman. Or a politician, or a lawyer.
especially a lawyer, they are the least trustworthy of them all.
Or a realtor, or a cop ... or anyone where your money or safety is involved.
Trust is earned not given all Willy-nilly
Or any religious leader for that matter
I would trust a politician and a lawyer before I would ever trust a used car salesman.
Car salesmen taking people for a ride… Never have I ever heared a story like that!
Years ago a dealership in the city I lived in would take the car you drove in with, as a trade in, to their mechanic shop while you were looking for a new car. If you didn't find a car on the lot that you wanted to buy, the salesperson would tell you that you had to buy one of the cars on their lot because they had already sold your trade in, so they couldn't return it to you. This trick was very successful for many years because they only used it when they knew they had a buyer who didn't know the law. The owner of the dealership eventuality lost his business and went to prison for fraud and car theft.
A dealer tried to do that to me once, it was 2001 and my trade was an '84 Buick Skylark, a $300 car purchased from a friend's husband after he dragged one side of the car down guardrails while drunk. Bungee cord holding the E-brake handle up to keep the light on the dash off, power inverter plugged into the cigarette lighter with a bookshelf stereo in the backseat for tunes, Vice Grips attached to the hood release because the handle broke off...
They told me they had already sold the car during the test drive, and I just laughed, asked them how they could sell the car when they didn't have the title or any signature transferring ownership? Then I told them to go get my keys so I could leave. They told me a second time that the car had been sold, so I reached into my pocket, jingled my spare set of keys in the air, and told them I was leaving in that Skylark with or without my primary set of keys - the spare set would be perfectly fine for me to go to the police and file a report of stolen property, since my only house key was on the set that had (somehow) been given to a (fictitious) new owner. As I walked out of the showroom to my rusty heap, which had been immediately parked in the "Cars Going To Auction" section in a deep muddy puddle during the test drive, they suddenly decided to return my keys and let me go.
I drove to the dealership literally next door, got out of my car, and waved at the salesmen that had just attempted to scam me. I don't recall if I used all five fingers on that hand, or only one, but the 2nd dealership got my business (and gave me $1,000 trade-in value).
@@dashcamandy2242 I have to admit, what you did is probably the best response to that kind of BS. Especially the way you waved back at the would be car theif. That was the least he deserved. 👍
We had one that would loosen the drain on your radiator so that if you didn't buy a car you would leave with a leaking radiator and the car would overheat and breakdown
@@hellhound1389 That kind of tactic just screams for a rope-based solution. Let the crooks decorate the front of their dealership.
@@dashcamandy2242 I saw Buick Skylark and immediately thought of 'My Cousin Vinny'. Thank you for the morning laugh.
Hire an attorney. Used car dealerships are required to pay a bond for cases exactly like this. Kid has a claim against the dealers bond unless they fix their error. Either give him the car or pay him the 10k back. Salesman was acting as an authorized agent of the dealership. They're responsible through employing such a person and allowing him to act on their behalf.
Yes, definitely hire an attorney. It will only cost you $15k to get your $10k back from those lying scumbags.
@@kimlground206 You clearly don't know how the legal process works. An attorney filing suit would also have their costs and fees paid for by the defdant when the case is won.
Fantastic comment.
This is why the dealership is claiming it was a freelance car salesman instead of an employed representative of their company
Only catch is a lawyer will charge $10,000 to get the kid’s $9, something back.
I once worked with a woman who bought a used Jeep from a private owner, who had purchased it from another private owner in a different state. The problem she had? When she took possession she immediately took it to a shop to have it checked out and found out that it was literally two different models of Jeeps welded together, front and back. The mechanic put the info in writing, and she took both the paperwork and the Jeep back to the seller and luckily got her money back. No more private owners for her. "Let the buyer beware" indeed.
Pre-purchase Inspection.
More people need to make this a mandatory step in purchasing a vehicle. It can save you a world of heartache, or at least a bundle of cash in negotiation.
Out of high school I worked as a Lot Boy at a new car dealership. I was sent to the bank to pay a car off and returned with a reciept, but not the title. The sales manager took that as a good time for a lesson and asked me where the title was. I gave him the receipt and he told me when I pay a car off, even if I am bloody, I must return with the title. While I have bought cars since without receiving the title right away that statement has always stuck with me.
Had a friend that purchased a car from the dealership in cash 1 week later after the used car market skyrocketed and his car nearly doubled in value the dealership reposed his car he paid for in full in cash and then left an envelope with the cash he paid for it on his porch were anyone could have stolen it and it wasn’t some small amount of cash. He took the dealership to court and won he not only got the car back but got to keep his cash
I've bought a personal vehicle from a salesman before. However immediately after the exchange of cash we transferred the title over to me. For a cash sale I think bare minimum a title in hand is a must.
Common sense isn't so common anymore.
Absolutely. I don't hand over money until title is in front of me and I've checked the vin against the car. Many times I sign it before giving them the cash.
Anything shady with the title and I'm gone. But you'll usually find that out before seeing the car, b/c they'll try making excuses in the ad.
Ya, my friend had to walk away from a too good to be true Old VW bug that he wanted to put a Subaru motor in.
Ad said clean title, show up, title wasn't even from the same state it was being sold in, and was still in the previous owners name, if recall right. IE we were from state A, Bug was selling in state B, title was from state C where not the seller, but previous owner was on title, but signed.
As I recall My friend offered $300 at that point (mostly as a "Fuck you" to the seller), was turned down, and we went a town over to drown our disappointment in burgers and fries, before heading the 2 hours back home.
@@TheLoiteringKid What you are explaining usually happens when someone that buys cars for cheap, fixes them and then re sells them but doesn't want to have to bother with any paperwork involved in technically being labelled as a used car lot or business sells cars to people. In our state if you sell more than like 4 or 5 cars a year, you need a used car dealers license, so people that don't want to do this, will buy cars from people without signing the title himself, so he is essentially just acting as a transfer from seller A (original owner) to buyer C (in this situation, this would be your friend or whoever), and skipping himself, so he doesn't get labelled as a dealer.
@@TheLoiteringKid as long as the signature matches the owner its a good title.
We do it all the time, in fact i have a 1973 cl350 that has not been licensed since 1980 its been from shed to shed over the decades but when i got it i also got the original title signed by the original owner.
Its called an open title.
Sounds like he missed out on a deal to me.
Sounds like the dealership is sketchy AF. And both should be investigated. Kid needs to sue both of them.
I’m a retired buy here pay here Car Dealer in South Carolina.
Everything you said was 100% accurate but it’s common sense. It’s no different than buying your groceries in the store getting your receipt going home and having the police come to your house for the groceries, lol!
The only thing you were incorrect about was the dealer having to have the title because he could’ve had it floor planned through a finance company which I never used because they charged monthly fees and you had to re-wholesale the car back at the auction every 90 or 120 days or whatever your agreement was if it wasn’t sold pay them off and start over.
Now that I’m retired I started a few months ago doing guitar lessons and one thing you said made me jealous.
Only needing three extra minutes to edit a video, lol! I spend hours sometimes on mine but that’s because I jabber a lot.
I’m lucky to edit in two hours!
Steve! I’m a dealer out of Florida and it’s people like this that give us all a bad name. There is no way any dealer on the planet would not notice or let a car drive off for any longer than a test drive without the appropriate paperwork, the dealership will almost definitely be on the hook for it( as they should be)
A dealer who watches Lehto? I’m going to need your location asap so that when I buy a car, I know who to go to 😂
No no legitimate salesman would ever accept a car on trade if the customer did not PRESENT
THE TITLE at the POINT OF SALE !
From my own experience this means that the guy has no title and/or the machine is stolen.
Either way, that salesman knew he could not sell the car if he did not have TITLE IN HAND. The man is
a criminal looking for a loophole.
@@turtleinashirt That’s right! Haha come on down anytime lol
@@johncox2865 we will frequently take cars on trade without a physical title in hand(we can do paperwork on the back end to get it printed) but your absolutely right this guy knew what he was doing
@@connerscars Sir, you are foolish.
I will be happy for this teen when the courts tell the dealership to hand over the keys with a clear title and a full tank of gas.
Yes!! And an independent inspection with the dealership paying for any needed service!
If I were that kid's friend, I'd show up with a tow truck every so often, saying I was there to reposes his vehicle.
Never buy a vehicle without the title.
About 30 years ago my parents neighbors had the same car my parents had and weren't making payments so a repo guy tried taking my parents car instead. I was the only one home and he wasn't in the mood to reckon with a little kid telling him he was stealing a car that someone had paid cash for so he kept on hooking it up. So I grabbed the kitchen gun and stood in the middle of the driveway. He dropped the car and came back with the cops. They weren't impressed by him reporting his own attempted auto theft.
Wow, what a story and a bold kid!!
lmfao the kitchen gun.
@@rd400dwouldn't want to grab the bathroom gun in that situation
That teen had every expectation that a car he bought from a salesperson at a car lot would be a legit sale from a legit salesperson.
That car lot is at fault. They were employing that salesperson & regardless, they are responsible!
No, this whole thing was a scam to protect the car dealers license to sell cars in that state, and the state should take away that dealership license to operate.
I really like hearing the stories you have and your input on them.
My sister-in-law tells me about her father being an honest used-car salesman. One time he sold a car to a man and told him the car had no problems, that it was in fine shape. A month later he ran into the car buyer and asked him how the car was doing. The man told him that the transmission had failed. My sister-in-law’s father then insisted on paying for the transmission, since he had told the man the car had no problems. Despite reputation, some used car salesmen are honest!
Wow 100% respect
Ill take "Things that never happened for 500$" Alex
Well first of all I bet that was an American made car. Always transmission problem. I would never ever say that if I sold an American used car.
I have worked with ethical car lots and have met salesmen like that. They are truly a rare breed. And this was before some much-needed regulations started getting harsh on auto dealerships. It's nice working with people who are honest and ethical, because that's just who they are and not because somebody made them act that way. I have also gone to dealerships that I knew were good, but wound up getting a hard sell by a salesman who would sell his own daughter into slavery if it would add to his bottom line. 😕
The fact this is noteworthy should tell you something.
I'll believe the dealership if/when their salesman is arrested and charged with felony grand-theft auto. Because the salesman didn't report the car stolen over those five months. And the dealership did note that the vehicle was sold, but to the salesman? Who didn't report it stolen? Why not? Because he sold it? Or he let the teen take it for a five-month test-drive?
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Neither the salesman *nor* the dealership are giving stories that pass any form of logical scrutiny. Obviously it is a scam, and it is either a little bit of salesman and a little bit of dealership, or it is *completely* the salesman, and none of the dealership. But there's no way in hell that the vehicle was "not-recorded-as-being-sold", yet was also missing for five months. That's beyond retarded. That's Jussie-Smollett levels of BS.
Sounded like it was the dealerships. The dealership had previously done a dealership financed sale to the salesman.
The salesman sold the car to the kid on the grounds that the title will be sent to kid (assuming after he pays it off with part of kids payment ).
However…. The salesman claims it was paid off and it was the dealership that was at fault for never supplying a title
He didn’t report it stolen because it wasn’t stolen and wasn’t trying to pass it off as stolen. The salesman claimed it was paid off by him and was just awaiting the title to send to the kid. The dealership claims it wasn’t paid off by the salesman and that is who they thought they were repossessing it from.
@@48Hybrid70 That's my point: it wasn't stolen. And the title-transfer doesn't take 5 months. And the dealership didn't think it was repossessing the vehicle from the salesman who still works there by going to the kid's house. It doesn't make any sense at all. The salesman is scamming, or the dealership is scamming, or they're both scamming. But the story as they tell it right now? *It makes less sense than Jussie Smollet's BS.*
How did they know the car was at the teen's house then? This is a scam.
@@48Hybrid70 he does bring up a good point. if it was repo job, then how did the dealership know where to camp out for it?
The dealer should give the car to the kid who payed for it, and fight the rest out with the salesman in court for the money owned. Or the salesman should refund the kid in full plus interest.
Theft by deception.
Con men ARE nice; their livelihood depends upon it. If the "freelance, part-time salesman" arrangement was valid at the time, I expect you are right about the status between the dealer and the teen. The dealer can recover his losses from the con man.
i think people often get confused between nice, and good or honorable. conmen are both nice and evil
It is not unknown for beginning salesmen to work on commission only and no draw on future commissions. While they may be called freelance they still represent the business and the business is liable for their actions.
The kid is fucked. Don’t go to dealerships. They’ll beat you out of money legally apparently
If you can't trust a used car salesman, who _can_ you trust?!
Wheres the title and or bill of sale? Dept of revenue might have some interest in said dealership shenanigans.....there's a paper trail that should prove buyers victim status
This is a "classic" dealership shell game and has been going on for decades almost exclusively in big cities like Chicago! My Dad was a car dealer from Tennessee and this was pulled on him in 1969 at a dealer in Chicago making a wholesale purchase with the salesman "walking" the purchase through to expedite and leaving with his money! My Dad's uncle was with him and saw the salesman leave walking the wrong direction! He ran to my Dad and they got on a payphone calling my Dad's cousin who happened to be a Police Captain in that very precinct! He was aware of the "operation " and nabbed the guy 2 blocks away ! It was known that the Dealer was involved but no one could prove it but at least he got his cash back!! This type operation has been going on since at least the 1950s probably longer!!
Wow
For the current situation, the fact that the salesguy still works tells it all
I guarantee you the salesperson showed the customers a bunch of cars that he knew they wouldn't want (didn't meet the criteria they had listed, etc.) and then said "but hey I've got this one car here and it's mine so just pay me"
And now they say it was his because of a prior business deal... yeah, a business deal that he could pretend any car was his so that they could pull this exact scam...
Texas looks country....most advanced crooks going....always....favorite destination of outlaws for a reason.
@@scd603 Exactly, the moment they said that they repo the car, but he still works there the entire situation became suspicious
Another good reminder when you're at a car dealership: If you don't actually need the car right away, always be willing to walk away the moment a deal looks remotely fishy. There are probably other places willing to sell you a car, and lots of cars for sale in your area, I promise you.
Used car salesmen are universally untrustworthy. Even in Australia, where, by the way, there's no such thing as a 'title' certificate for a vehicle) Bill of sale or receipt for the payment would be it. And no, you don't need that to register it either, or transfer the rego to you. Registration certificate states clearly that it's registered to the 'operator' and doesn't convey title to the vehicle if they register it. Only real estate has title certification. But I digress, went and looked at a used car for my daughter and her partner. Was a type they liked, price was close so they were negotiating price and the like. While they did, I went through the glovebox and it had the service records, which showed a diagnosed by unrepaired engine issue (timing chain, for which that model were notorious) and an estimate of fifteen hundred dollars to fix it, plus some other, lesser but significant issues. Showed this to the salesman who claimed not to be aware of it (yeah, right). Offered to drop it by a thousand but I just looked at her and shook my head and we walked out. Went to another, different make/model, but again, what they were after (seven seater basically) and went into negotiations. During this the dealer disclosed that it was an insurance right off, but had been repaired. Went over the vehicle and we were able to discover that it was simply hail damage that meant all the glass required replacement and some minor roof damage fixed, insurer wrote it off because of the age. After discussing it with their own insurer, they agreed to buy the vehicle at a reduced price with an extended mechanical warranty thrown in. So they bought it and it's been no trouble most of two years later. So they got a bargain basically. But if you don't know the ins and outs, you can wind up with all kinds of problems. Caveat Emptor.
Ha ha, I’ve watched a few of your videos…and just watched two today. You last name was ringing a bell, then I focused in on the Tucker and Chrysler turbine car 1/18th die casts on the shelf behind you. Oh! You wrote the book “Preston Tucker and…” I just double checked and it is you! Thanks for writing such a great book, I’ll have to buy the Turbine car book as well!
Managers at another dealership who heard about Jonathan Fredricks' story decided to make things right. Frank Kent Motor Co., which has three General Motors stores and a used-vehicle store in the Dallas area, replaced the 16-year-old's Mazda with a Kia Soul.
If this got out, they probably got very popular😊
A used Kia Soul is a low value vehicle. But still nice of them to give the kid a functional vehicle. They might get to write the gift off as a promotional expense.
@@anonymike8280yeah, a mazda CX5 is considerably nicer.
@@wb5mgr True.
Not to mention kias are being stolen left and right
I definitely think the dealership should be on the hook for this. I fail to see how, from a legal perspective, this is any different than someone walking into a clothing store, paying a clerk for their purchase, and the clerk pocketing the cash. You wouldn't go after the purchaser to get the clothing back, because they paid an agent of the business a fair market price for the item, with the reasonable belief that they had completed a valid purchase.
The difference is who owned the article. In your scenario it would be the salesperson selling her personally owned scarf to a customer. If someone held a lien to that scarf - they would repo the scarf.
Nobody went after the minor. They repossessed a vehicle - one that did not belong to the the minor since he didn’t have title.
@@philr6829 Irrelevant. The person selling the truck had the right to sell the truck. Whether they presented it as a personal sale of their own property, or the dealership, in both scenarios that person had the authority to sell it. The fact that they did not then give the proceeds to the owner (the dealership) is an issue between the salesman and the dealership.
@@tedgovostis7351 wrong. The dealership was NOT the owner. They were the lien holder. The private party (salesman) was the owner. The lien holders only recourse was repossessing the collateral.
@@philr6829 at the 2 minute mark, Steve says that the dealership claims to have already repossessed the truck from the salesman. IE that means the dealership was the current owner.
@@tedgovostis7351 I believe you misunderstood the timeline there. They were talking about the repo from the kids possession, otherwise it would have been a stolen vehicle and handled differently.
I started a slow clap that built into a roaring applause and a standing ovation when you reiterated that you did this in one take(In my head, I’m alone). Then I laughed at myself thinking: what’s a good job for someone that can do that besides actor; Lawyer! Love you, keep it coming
I feel like the dealership would be liable here, they knew the guys history of fraud and allowed him to work on their lot anyway.
I bought a car from an insurance company through Copart, the largest insurance auctioneers in the world. I got a copy of the bill of sale by email and the title was supposed to accompany the car to the border for export. The car showed up with no paperwork and customs impounded it. It sat in a customs lot (at my expense) for two weeks with the windows down. Copart wasn't sure if they lost the title or the carrier did, but it took two weeks to get another one to the export office at customs. During that time I paid thousands of dollars for extra storage and shipping only to receive a car that had thousands of dollars of interior water damage. My insurance company wouldn't cover it because I hadn't taken possession of the car when the damage occurred. Worst experience ever!
Then it should have been the company that you bought it from responsibility they were supposed to include all of that and they felt too so it should have been something they paid for also why would they ship it with the windows rolled down
Just another example of why you never buy a car without title in hand...Dealership or not! No title=You don't own it!
@@brentfarvors192 in some states it’s basically impossible to buy a vehicle with the title in hand
And when you sued coparts in small claims court for your damages?
What would have happened if you had refused delivery? Why were the windows down during shipping?
Great story and lesson. Adding to the lesson... As a former car salesman, EVERY dealership I've ever worked for has had a clause in their employment agreement that says you are NOT ALLOWED TO SELL YOUR PERSONAL VEHICLE to a customer coming on the lot to shop for dealer vehicles.
same here but with an exception. i did sell my car to a customer but i had to sell it to the dealership first.
If it was repo'ed it wasn't his vehicle and i doubt the average person would know.
Seems like a no brainer to me.
Time to put that DEALERSHIP ON BLAST ON FRUADULENT PRACTICES!
We bought a 2019 Toyota Prius from a large dealership in Phoenix, AZ in Jan 2020 and it took them 5 months to send us the title. The said the title was at a dealership in Flagstaff where the car had come from. It's only a 2.5 hour drive from Phoenix...
A similar thing happened to a friend of mine when we were in high school. He went to a dealer close to us and looked at mustang they had there. The salesmen said "oh that's my car but I'll sell it to you." My friend ended up buying the car from him. Here's the thing. The salesmen bought the car from the dealership and never paid them for it. My friend got to keep the car though and the guy was fired for doing what he did. Gotta be careful out there. You never know who'll rip you off.
Never trust ANY used car salesman
That salse person should have been in jail.
Sounds like a scam Steve. The young man should take the salesman and the dealership to court for civil and criminal dispositions.
You know the dealership is part of the scam. Make them famous in that state!
I worked at a used auto for like five years. He paid me like $10 an hour, and he only took cash for his cars, but all all we would do is sign the paperwork and transfer the stuff over, but no one ever asked to look and doublecheck.
It seems either the salesman owned the car and could sell it so it belongs to the kid, or the dealer owned the car and the salesman sold it as their agent (regardless of any lies he may have told the customer) in which case the kid owns the car.
Exactly. The actions of an authorized agent of a business within the scope of that business (e.g., selling cars at a dealer's lot) are the actions of that business itself, by legal definition.
How about if salesman owned it, but dealership had a lien on it because money was still owed? That seems to be what the actual situation was: Salesman owned it but didn't have a clear title. It's like if you pay someone cash for a house, without doing a title search, and without ensuring that they pay off their mortgage with the proceeds. The bank can still foreclose you, the mortgage is attached to the property, not to the person, although loan notes also usually make the borrower personally responsible in addition.
These are the issues I have been waiting through this video to be dealt with. I am not a lawyer and I am not from Texas, but I guessed that the dealership was liable because the salesman was acting as their agent. I just got to the part of the video where Lehto is dealing with this issue and he thinks the dealership is on the hook because the salesman was their agent. Regardless, I am amazed that for some amount of money less than $10,000 (assuming that the guy that had sold the car had made some payments), the dealer would have gone to the wall over this. Does bad publicity mean nothing to this dealer? Does legal bills to fight a case they look like they would lose mean nothing to this dealership? Does just simple human decency mean nothing to this dealer? Maybe not, they are used car salesmen.
The phrase, "Make it right by me or I'll beat it out of you ." comes to mind
The salesman should have just taken the money the kid gave him and payed off the car. Looks to me like he is definitely a crook and should be in jail.
Every time I have paid cash for a truck I walked away with signed title in hand, or went with the owner to the Tax Office to transfer. That's the right and only way because of insurance liability...
The first red flag for me would have been the bit about him 'sending the title' later. One thing MY Grandfather taught me from before I even bought my first car was ALWAYS demand a clear title up front for whatever vehicle you're buying from anyone! That said, that dealership is responsible for whoever is selling vehicles off their lot, whether they be 'freelance', full-time or whatever. If they have access to the office where the paperwork is done, then *they're agents for said dealer.* If a vehicle is sold from that lot and paid in full according to a Bill of Sale, that is a binding contract, and legally the dealer can't just go and repossess said vehicle, no matter what the circumstances are between the dealer and the salesman.😉
Once traded in a Chevy truck to Trade Winds Ford in Corpus Christi Tx. 2 months later State cops show up at my work asking questions. Apparently the dealer resold my truck without having it registered and it ended up in the Rio Grand river near Laredo Tx loaded with drugs. Luckily I still had my purchase and trade in agreement in my glove box of the new car.
How do you even get plates/insurance if you don't have the title for the vehicle?
Got my plates and insurance the last vehicle I bought at a dealer, title doesn't get to my hands tilli pay off the loan. Get the paperwork to take in and get the plates, etc.
They claim he’s “a freelance part time salesman,” so they can deny responsibility for any of his scams once they are found out!
Seems like he’s a part time salesman but a full time scammer, and considering he still works there, I’d think those running the dealership are just as crooked as he is!
It's a very common practice, even among multi-billion dollar companies. A seen a case in which someone with down's syndrome fired for having it, and when they lost their case they claimed the store manager should be held responsible because he was a "private contractor". Luckily the judge just told them "nah". Mind you this is one of the biggest retail companies in the world.
Fun fact most car lots doubt have full time salesmen but freelancers
Except that doesn't work in this case. They are Liable for ALL Agents they hired, no matter HOW they are hired or for how long. He works there, period, he is their Agent. This would be a different situation if he was a 'Former' Agent, no longer working there, and came in that day to fraud people out of their cash by illegally pretending to be an Agent when he wasn't. But no, he was a full fledged Agent. And thus the Dealership by LAW are 100% Responcable for him. If they didn't want to be, they shouldn't have hired him, nor have such horrible hiring practices. Being a Freelancer or Part Time does NOT change the fact they are an Employee and Agent. The Dealership would still be punished by law, as should other companies.
I think having "freelance part-time salesmen" on your lot is a liability in and of itself.
Uhhh, more like "any of their scams" once found out.
The kid is the victim of theft by fraud. However, the dealer could be liable for allowing the shady salesman to work out of their lot. They are still responsible for his actions while he is working there. The moment the salesman said it was his personal car, he should have shown a title. The kid was inexperienced and his grandfather wasn't very swift.
Texas Civil lawsuit for triple damages file on both salesman and car lot.
How come the dealer went after the kid instead of the salesman that did all the wrong things? I had a similar situation when my Uncle purchased a TV from a store and dealt with the repair man. Turns out the repair man was selling TVs he was stealing from the store. The store tried to get the TV back, I took them to court and won. The repair man was an Agent of the store and therefore respocible for the crime and had to make amends.
Because the teen was technically driving a car he did not own. The car was still the legal property of the dealership, and they recovered it from the entity that had it.
Because he had a collateralized interest in the vehicle. He wasn't "going after the kid" - he was just recovering property that belonged to him.
Yeah it's the dealership behind this one
Dealer didn't go after the kid, they just took the car back. And they left the salesman alone because they can't take a car away from someone who is too broke to have a car.
@@NeverEvenThere Depends on whether the law sees this as an arms length private deal or a "sale by consignment". You could argue the latter because the salesperson was technically an agent of the car yard selling his own car on consignment.
Another dealership gave him a new vehicle. This dealership is called Frank something that has been in business since the '30. So if you have a local dealership that's name is Frank ???, that has been around for ever, that is who you should be doing business with.
We would have been moving furniture up in there. Somebody is gonna take an ass woopin might be me, or might be them....lol
When I was a teenager in the 60's, I remember reading stories about used car salesmen in MAD magazine. This could have been one of those stories.
If the kid made the purchase in good faith from a sales person working on the lot then the kid deserves the vehicle. He acted in good faith.
at the very least, he should get his full amount back.
Sue them both in small claims court and get the AG involved NOW. That's the only way someone is going to cough up the cash or car.
@David Wang easy there my guy. From the Sales Person that took his money. The deal should be reversed as the sale was made in bad faith
I had a relative who after his wife died let his new (a few years later) GF use his wife's car because she did not have a vehicle to drive at the time. About a month later he got a call from a car dealership asking him to come in and sign over the title as she had 'traded' his car for another one. My relative explained the car did not belong to the woman and he had merely loaned it to her to use. He picked up HIS vehicle later that day, and was very angry that a woman he showed kindness to would try to sell his wife's vehicle which held great sentimental attachment to him due to it having been his dead wife's and the memories that were associated with it. What surprised me is that the car dealership took the vehicle and let her drive her 'new' vehicle away without checking the ownership. It says a lot about how many Dealerships operate I think, as does this story.
I've had legitimate sales from dealers where I was not shown the old title and had to wait for one to be mailed. The kid should have been given the car back while it played out in court.
The only way the dealership comes out without effluent all over their uh.... 'good name' is handing the kid his car keys back after they detail it, change the oil etc & fill the tank with gas and help him go after the 'salesman'.
I'd guess that this isn't the first time some hanky-panky has happened on that lot... with or without that salesman.
Does any used car lot have a "good name"? Lol
This gives new meaning to "used car salesman".
Or re-inforces the old meaning.
"new"?
you also gotta watch out for repo guy's that just try to grab a vehicle based on description ALONE , i had a pickup bought and paid for i had the title at home and plated and insured i was at work and somebody said hey your truck is getting towed when i went out the guy was argumentative that he was ordered to repo it, i was calm and asked how he intended to repo a privately owned vehicle and he got angry and said leave him alone it was getting done and that i should PAY MY BILLS he never once checked the vin registration or anything , so i got into MY TRUCK AND PULLED OUT MY 12 GAUGE SHOTGUN and the at the time rare cell phone called the cops and reported that he was trying to steal my truck he SOON calmed down and i could have had him arrested but settled for a lesson learned i bet he started checking b4 hooking after that.
That "Agency Law" that I studied just well enough to pass the bar comes into play.
I had something very similar happen to me in Tennessee, I found a 2007 Colorado that I wanted to buy off a local lot, sat down with a salesman and we signed a ton of paperwork. I was financing from a credit union, $12,500, at that time I was told the title would be coming in the mail along with the plate. I returned to the lot a month later where I was told "should be here any day" never missed a payment to my credit union and had it insured the whole time. The court house was giving me temp tags every month too. This went on for a year, yes, you read that right! In the meantime the "dealer" moved twice! The credit union then informed me that they were bringing suit against the dealer. As soon as they filed, the title was produced, needless to say, the fly by night "dealer" was done, and unsure if charges were brought but damn well should have been!!
And what did YOU learn from that experience? Sometimes a look at their BBB record and a call to the state's dept. of consumer affairs is revealing.
What I learned was NO CLEAR TITLE, NO BUY, and no small dealers either!
@@denn606 YES. Private party = clear title in the seller's name (seller = the person you're dealing with not a "relative" or "neighbor", etc) and in hand !! Just ask before you even look at a car and you'll save a lot of time.
This stuff is just mind-blowing to me
Where i live, if you don't have the title, not only does the car not belong to you and if the cops stop you they might even think it's stolen and hold your car until it's clear
But also you cannot get license plates nor insurance
No title = no insurance= no plates = cannot drive the car
So this stuff really can't happen here and everyone knows that without the title it's like you don't even have a car
@@littleloner1159 That seems a bit extreme and I can imagine plenty of scenarios of that causing serious headache for honest people.
They not only owe the young man his vehicle, they also owe damages for lost use of the vehicle. I would recommend that this dealership be seized and forcibly closed by the state of Texas for illegal business practices.
You ever saw a WHOLE municipal court/police station CHAINED AND PADLOCKED? I HAVE....KILLEEN TEXAS...90s....lock big as baskeball....stainless steel chain.....Orange stickers 11x8...by order of DOJ.....for corruption.....etc.....please contact the nearest county courthouse designated.....
1992-1995 time frame....
Outside of FtHood US ARMY base . So ......
all the dealers in texas are crooked. theyre marking up new cars almost 100%
So if I sell your property to someone else without your consent or knowledge, YOU owe them the property???
If you represented yourself as an employee/agent of OP and OP allowed you to? Yes, absolutely they would. That's what this boils down to. The salesman _works for them,_ which makes the dealership _legally responsible_ for his actions on the lot.
Maybe I'm not "most people" but the very first thing I do before buying a car from either a private party OR a dealer is to ask to see the title and I record the VIN. I check the VIN on the title with the VIN on the car AND then I take it down to my local police dept and ask them if the VIN is clean and the title is legit. Then and only then do I seriously discuss buying the car.
Find the salesman and arrest him for Fruad how do they buy a car for cash without a title that is really stupid the salesman is a liar he sold a car without a title this salesman is a scam artist but the dealership is liable the salesman was working for them freelancer or not never ever buy a car without seeing the title and making sure there is no lien holder or you have a lien release
*"Freelance used car salesman"* just sounds like a disaster 😳😆
Sounds like a perfect used car salesman. Utterly unscrupulous, well experienced in scamming and fleecing people.
Or a preacher
Should have a long career in government.
Usually belong to a certain tribe....
Actually this is not a perfect used car salesperson.
It is a scammer that sold a car that he did not possess.
@@MrDecelles you just described the perfect used car salesman...
Lol I watch often but never comment . Your story about kicking the tires had me chuckling
The dealerships representative sold the vehicle. He is responsible for this, not the kid. The car belongs to the kid since the salesman WAS authorized to sell the car since he works for the dealership. Looks like the dealership made a bad call.
🤔 So the sales man stole $10K💸 gave away an SUV he didn't own!?
SMH- Title or no 💰
And bill of sale to boot
When I was 19 and shopping for my first car, I brought my older brother with me. The salesman tried to get me to buy his personal car. My brother pointed out that it was a respray and convinced me to leave and try another dealer, without looking at any other cars there. I guess I should thank my brother for getting me away.
Edit, I just remembered, at the second used car lot, I got into a truck to test drive it, the salesman insisted he had to go with me. As I turned the key, he turned the radio on full blast. So loud I couldn't hear the engine. We left that place immediately. The third lot sold me a used truck that I drove for ten years.
😂😂
i've been to a number of dealers where they'd leave dead batteries in the cars they're selling
I went to by my first car. They had to put oil in the engine prior to starting. Once started a cloud of blue oil smoke came out of the exhaust. Salesman said that was just some oil spilled on the manifold from just filling the crankcase. That cannot happen like that unless at least some full gasket failure.
Waked out of there and bought a used 1st generation Camaro elsewhere.
@@saigyl9149 who would buy a car with a dead battery?
BLESS YOU MY CHILD
The dealership needs to take care of the kid who chose to use that dealership, its not his fault they use shady sales practices
So the salesman knowingly committed fraud the kid need to have him arrested and sue the dealership for fraud too.. new car 30k make the kid feel better
$10,000 saved up in one year from Chic-fil-a?
Man, that kid must have truly busted himself to reach that, even if living with grandpa and not being charged any rent an stuff. That's commitment to the savings.
Truth. That is some serious self-discipline to not blow that money on any number of "wouldn't that be cool?" purchases.
Well, $10,000 over the course of 56 weeks is only $187.57 per week. This is assuming that he put his _entire_ savings in the bank and didn't spend some of it. At minimum wage for Texas, that's 25 hours a week, but I get the feeling he probably made a little more than MW. I'd be guessing like $8? something like that? That'd be about 24h once you consider taxes being taken out. I could easily see that being do-able.
@@Dhalin Quite doable, but still admirable levels of discipline.
@@Dhalin Chick Fil A pays about 17-19 an hour in Colorado. They outperform nearly every other chain, and everyone gets Sunday off. This alone saves each store many hours of scheduling and rescheduling conflicts, people quitting because they need Sunday off. They forego a lot of potential profit to have a smoother-running operation, and a better work environment for HS and College kids. And they are not sleazy, The places are immaculate, well maintained, and the owners WORK the locations. No absentee investor-owners missing in action.
@@citylockapolytechnikeyllcc7936 Well, if they are paying THAT much, then yeah, this kid wouldn't break a sweat getting the $10k for the car. I mean, dude, $17 an hour is more than double the figures I posted above. I never meant to say anything negative about CFA, I've never eaten there. I was just assuming MW or something near it to propose a "worst case scenario".
Most businesses are responsible for the actions of their employees. "Freelance" or not. The fact that they refer to him as freelance, is suspicious. It means they are trying to avoid being responsible for their employees.
He was on their property, selling their cars. Whatever the arrangement between the dealer and the salesman, the dealer is responsible. Given the salesman's history, allowing him to act as their agent was irresponsible and negligent.
yeah but the kid wasn't buying from the dealer; the dealer was not a party to the contract. if the employee robs a bank does the employer pay for that too?
@@Burt1038 the dealer certainly was a party to the contract. They held the lien on the car. They then repossessed the car. The sale also happened on their lot. If McDonald's employees brought in roadkill and cooked it, then sold it to unsuspecting customers, McDonald's wouldn't be off the hook for what the employees did.
@@michaellowe3665 the kid and gramps were not "unsuspecting customers", they knew they were buying from the salesman and not the dealer. Why is that so hard to understand?
Also, no the dealer is not a party to the contract. I guarantee they are not named anywhere in that contract between the salesman and the kid. Having a lien against the vehicle in question is irrelevant to the point.
I bought a Mazda with cash from a Mazda dealer. When I tried to trade it in on a new car years later I was told it had a lien on it. The lien holder was some S&L that had since gone out of business. Took me a lot of effort to get the fraudulent lien off of it.
One thing I love about the state of Florida is that you can get a title for a vehicle the same day when you go register it.
A popular scam around here is. A person owns a car free and clear, files for a lost title, uses the replacement title to get a title loan, then sells the car to a unsuspecting buyer and gives them the not lost title. The buyer is unaware of the lein until they try to transfer title at DMV. Meanwhile seller disappears with cash, and repo company takes the vehicle
Wouldn’t the car dealership carry some responsibility for having a situation where something like this could even happen? Do they have any liability?
I think this mess is why the dealership is holding the car. One of their salesmen sold them the car and pocketed the cash effectively. What may happen is the kid gets the car and the dealership has to get the money out of the bankrupt salesman. (Whole other can of worms there.)
I think in a civil suit the car dealership will lose.... Because they created a situation where their dealership would imply trustworthiness, and then they allowed a convicted felon to wander around their lot making car deals.
@@duanejackson6718 well said
Stupid teenager and his grandfather. If you pay cash and outright purchase the car wouldn't there be a lot of paperwork that is prepared by other employees of the dealership? How about the sales tax
Paperwork? I would not leave without the title as well!
@@LaserD200 It's more the exception than the rule that you get title at the time of purchase, especially at a dealership, but often on private party sales too since payoffs are often involved and the bank is holding title.
The dealership being held liable would make sense to me. Let's say I work at a 7-Eleven and I'm mopping the floors. I don't put a wet floor sign up and someone trips and hurts themselves on my wet floor. That person isn't suing me; They're suing 7-Eleven since it's their property and I'm an appointed agent, AKA an employee, who is going about the business I was hired to conduct. Sure, 7-Eleven is going to say "What the hell, Alex? Why wasn't the wet floor sign put up?" and they would most likely fire me because I have put them in a position where they may have to pay out tens of thousands of dollars in medical expenses alone, not including legal fees and court appearances.
It makes me sad to see that the kid got scammed and I hope he at least gets his money back, if not the car itself.
But overall, I want to thank you Mr. Lehto for teaching us what to look for when purchasing a vehicle from both private sellers and car lots.
The fact the dealership admitted he was a freelancer salesman after the fact should make them liable for the kids 10k back