Rhodesia | Zimbabwe | Children of Rhodes | What the young say? | This Week | 1971
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- čas přidán 14. 09. 2021
- 'This Week' visits the Minority white ruled country of Rhodesia and speaks to some of its younger inhabitants, on what they think the future holds for their country.
First shown: 15/07/1971
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Quote: VT60722
All I can say is that these kids were more knowlageable and educated than most graduates in Zimbabwe now
Facts
Today, kids would use word ”like” five times in each of their sentences.
What about those in England 🏳️⚧️
I think it's important to recognise that both sets of students were in elite schools and Upper Middle class .
*Thank you for your opinion. It is good to hear from citizens of Zimbabwe.*
They are all very polite. It sounds wonderful to hear young people speaking with respect for themselves and others.
3:35 what a guy
Best children
Yes. The words he said could have saved the country from the disaster it is now.
All those young soldiers would be hitting 70 now
True. They were born +/- 1954. I was doing the calculations too😁
I landed at around that number too since the kids looked to range from 12 - 18.
The sad thing is how they were in fact all saying the same thing, but from different sides of the same coin that used race as its coin toss divider. The degree of articulation of the black kids clearly puts the misinformed theories of the conditioned white kids into perspective. After all, not a single one of the white kids, including the more sympathetic ones, could ever express themselves so fluently on the majority's native languages. That remains the case generations later, but for a literal handful.
There ladies and gents, you have the crux of the issue: the unfortunate arrogance of one way traffic.
@@tristansolero2159 I'm reading Achille Mbembe he says this, "Blinding Oneself The other foundation for the consciousness of empire has always been the tremendous will to ignorance that, in every case, seeks to pass itself off as knowledge. The ignorance in question here is of a particular kind: a casual and frivolous ignorance that destroys in advance any possibility of an encounter and a relationship other than one based on violence."
Lizwe I have to read your comment several times before the flowery language of Mbembe’s sagacious observation landed in my consciousness. I agree.
You might have to paraphrase the quote for other readers though, in the context of the discussion.
Thanks
Most of them are now our tormentors
Only if we had the poise, the clarity, the dignity, the class, the wisdom, the calmness and the impressive listening abilities of these young generations (both black and white) then we would go far as a people!
These people also had an education that was not available to 599 out of every 600 Africans
@@moisesaguirre515 and now used it to in rich other couhtries
We Africans had it all.that before colonizers came.
Africans are not my people. I am White and I want to live among Whites. Let them show us that they can take care of themselves without the help of Whites, without any country turning into a wreck under their leadership.
@@africaine4889 02:40 invading the school?
A follow up documentary with the same young men in these interviews would make a beautiful comprehensive story to tell.
Yes it would be interesting
Yes, I would wish to know what they are or do now.
@@bennbusiku5854their all over the place scattered to the wind from the immediate neighbors of zimbabwe to the ends of the earth improving where ever they end up
That the country is a complete shithole now? I wonder if they know they made a mistake.
The eloquence of these young men is amazing!
Are, not is.🤗
They spoke their truth with confidence in a second language. Imagine if they had also had equal opportunities.
@@shawnprime5085 you are incorrect. 'The eloquence ' is the subject in singular, therefore the verb would be is, not are.
@@kathyohara6658 I did not want you argue with that comment! Thank you Kathy!
My dad was a teacher at this time. It was then considered the "best" job for a black man. That is why he spoke a good deal of Latin. When he was educated, Latin was the language of the educated. One of the few Africans doing ok at this time.
Of course after independence he got different jobs totally removed from teaching.
What career did he get into post independence?
yes. Latin is. But if you really want to beat them learn classical Greek. You break the matrix totally if you know geek.
What a powerful presentation by these high school kids. I wish we knew where these are today so we could interview them and find out what they would say about the present political and economic situation in Zimbabwe
for sure
These blacks are most likely the ruling snd upper middle classes now.. or have long since moved abroad
So what if they are eloquent, 40 years later just watch Zimbabwe and compare it to Rhodesia. Its just reverting back to tribalism.
@@MrBoliao98 how I wish I could change the situation. I keep hoping that soon my fellow countrymen would wake up 😭😭😭
Those white high school kids are most likely dead. Murdered brutally with their whole family.
5:38 a clear example of education and understanding. This is Smith’s Africa
Nah hes an ebil racist just like all huwyte people
my country Zimbabwe replaced corrupt rule by a racial minority, with rule by a corrupt political minority. Its downfall in both cases was greed and corruption. The white Europeans gave us relative material prosperity with oppression and inequality, the black ruling class have so far given us the same treatment, minus material prosperity.
The plight of Zimbabwe has always saddened me. I'm in South Africa and I wish nothing but peace and prosperity for the people of Zimbabwe. Things could have been so different.
so.... Make Rhodesia again
@@matthew1882 that's so true, it really could have gone so differently as you said, but I guess the ruling elite are almost always out for themselves no matter the cost
@@rat_king- ....no
So which was worse then ?
This is why I favor programs like this, and a dozen others, from the 20th century that are a product of quality, despite whatever certain comments could be scorned or criticized (historically or presently). But Rhodesia was a country that could’ve been one of the greatest in Africa, had both Europeans and Blacks integrated (without Mugabe’s intervention or Ian Smith’s stubbornness).
Pure truth
There is no such thing as integration
@@turdburglar123 in what context, sir?
@@exempligratia101 Any attempt to integrate people of different races/ethnicities in a single society is doomed to failure and there are many examples of this (Burma, Cuba, the US, Rhodesia and South Africa etc.)
@@turdburglar123 tell that to the colonialists who massacred and killed people of other races to pay reparations and return the stolen land to them. How bout that, child?
Cause that’s whose responsible for the crap they’ve left in those countries and more. Such a supremacist you are… 😵
Wow. What a superb programme. Very interesting and much food for thought for someone not totally familiar with the issues here. Thank you very much for showing
Food for thought, it is only Whites who cannot have their own countries that are exclusively for them and their posterity.
I'm a keen follower of our history as a country and continent, holding strong political beliefs myself which one can come upon in several other political clips but I question my ability to bring my points across compared to these young men and women. Just amazing, for the time too that they expressed them.
This is a great video - thank you.
I would like to add, the then Honourable Prime Minster Ian Douglas Smith did *NOT* say there *"will never be black majority rule - not in a thousand years"* which has been reported over & over again & disseminated all around the world.
I still have the DVD tape of Mr Smith's speech in my possession here in UK. Smithy said *"I do not 'BELIEVE' in majority rule - not in a thousand years"* .
Mr Smith believed in the best qualified, to run the affairs of the country & the RF government ( *which happened to be white* ) was best qualified.
Mr Smith died still believing *black majority rule* was not a criterion to rule a çountry, he believed in the *BEST QUALIFIED* .
*AND HE IS/WAS ABSOLUITELY 100% CORRECT* .😉
Stop lying. Ian smith was a racist who knew that him and his racist regime would be thrown out of power if there was an equal and fair election. Him and his government were ignorant. He should have integrated the blacks sooner into their own society but he didn’t. As the last black student said at the end of the video, he said that eventually if you keep oppressing someone they will retaliate and that’s what happened.
Most respects to the students (both blacks and whites) featured in this documentary. I like how they articulated issues and honesty. If only the leaders could have listened to them!
The level of education exhibited by these kids far much exceeds what we see nowadays
Fact !
Definitely
Today, kids would use word ”like” five times in each of their sentences.
These kids at Stiggs were bold and proud to speak about what they believed in. Such bravery is missing in today’s youth. It’s also sad that the issues they spoke up against are still relevant. Replace the racist Smith with the corrupt black government and it’s the same play, different actors
???
There are more young activists than ever before.
well, they got their way and they had a bigger racist to deal with in Mugabe, have they established if they survived Mugabe's years in office?
@@monkey7072 why do you even support Rhodesia?
I would like to see what they would say today. was Rhodesia better then zimbabwe?
@@ayodejiolowokere1076 I look for the best in every situation
People on the blog are asking what happened to these young men and women, and what they would say today. I'm one of these youngsters; the last of those that remember Rhodesia before it became Zimbabwe. Given time, and no outside interference, within two more generations we would have become a country of equality, with an education system far beyond the UK, Europe and the USA, and hard working industrious people. The problem was never Rhodesia, there were no unsurmountable internal issues; one or two more generations and education would have organically become racially broad based across all racial groups. It was the external forces that destroyed us, whilst the first world faced as cold war, the battleground of the superpowers was SE Asia, South America, and in particular Africa. The Marxist superpowers sold black Africans a lie that they would all have a Mercedes and a farm, that Europeans had stolen not worked for what they owned; and, the western superpowers wanted Africa to remain a purchasing market where they could rape and pillage resources and sell manufactured products. Rhodesia with its highly educated, industrious population was a threat to the first world, it was feeding the African continent and was rapidly gearing up to feed and supply manufactured goods to the entire world. Destabilizing Africa has always been, and remains the strategy of the superpowers, it is the only way they can ensure cheap resources.
You could have avoided all this by NOT imprisoning nationalist leaders, allowing democracy to prevail and full application of equal rights and justice for all.
What are you doing now i really want to know that i hope it's not personal?
And what do you think of the current situation compared to the evil you guys were fighting
@@thembakhumalo-li7bl What difference would it have made if they hadn’t of imprisoned African nationalist leaders? Even in countries where there was little resistance to African majority rule, and nationalist leaders weren’t imprisoned, they still managed to ruin their own nations. African nationalism is a disease. All of the African nationalists leaders that were imprisoned in Rhodesia deserved to be in prison. They advocated for political violence or worse.
Democracy is not a safeguard against tyranny. Rhodesia had a qualified franchise, and the country functioned far more effectively under that system than it has done under African majority rule. Also, since the advent of majority rule in Zimbabwe there certainly hasn’t been ‘justice for all’!
Yeah right. 🤣🤣🤣
Yaw have never done anything without colonization.
the two great african tragedies when the white man came and when the white man left
Film history, great stuff.
Agree
Excoting and thrilling
Amazing video very eye opening. No wonder Zim is full of intelligent people both black and white and everything in between. Much respect to our people.
Such a shame that an amazing country was brought to its knees by both races, if only we’d all worked together.
Indoctrinate brainwashing, races dont coexist, never have, never will
@@alexmag342 race doesnt exist, cultures do. And yes they can CO exist, biggest example, Rome. Almohads, and othoman empire.
It's rising again, ask some of us on the ground
@@alexmag342 so should the Rhodies have left?
@@realhades9178 straight facts my man
These men of are of great competence. I would welcome them with comfort given the chances I could meet them personally.
You mean you would be honored to meet them
Most of them died during the armed struggle.😔
When Ian Smith became prime minister in 1964, segregation was already at the heart of the Rhodesian way of life. There were segregated suburbs, segregated government schools and segregated hospitals etc. as a result of the Land Apportionment Act of 1930. At the General Election of December 1962, the country's prime minister Edgar Whitehead told the electorate that if he won the election he would abolish the Land Apportionment Act. However, he alienated many of the white voters and lost the election to a newly formed right-wing party, the Rhodesian Front, led by Winston Field. The latter was replaced by Ian Smith two years later and in 1969 the Land Apportionment Act was replaced by the Land Tenure Act which was likewise segregatory. Hence although blacks benefited from Rhodesia's existence in many ways (through the construction of houses, schools and hospitals etc) they did have legitimate grievances.
@Glen Dodds My opinion: The lack of foresight killed Rhodesia... If blacks were integrated and included as per the ANC's (Remember ANC had chapters in Southern Africa) original purpose when the communism hadn't seeped in, we would very much still have kept the name Rhodesia with a New Zealand type of feel....
FF to today, when the land ownership has been "reformed", the land will be the main issues for the next 2 decades at most....and the government will wait till most former white owners are late and claim that complete and full compensation is nigh impossible.
It is pathetic... meanwhile us black zimbabweans are stuck in this with no alternative citizenships like most white rhodesians had.
@@tendaifushai5651 They were mzungu colonizers. There was never going to be integration, only exploitation. To pretend differently is to expose your ignorance of what this system was and what these people were.
Its funny you ask majority of black african Americans now if they want segregation they would say yes .
@@tendaifushai5651 yah...Tendai, well written. Interestingly. In S A today, most whites don't have the luxury of alternative citizenship...despite the common mistaken perception that "they do".
todd ministry was better imo
These kids of the 60's and early 70's were so well spoken, intelligent, and composed. The Rhodesians seem like civilized and educated people. These women with their beehive hairdo's, and other late 60's styles should be brought back today. There is something so angelic and beautiful about the "big hair" styles of these times. I wish Zimbabwe had stayed out of Civil- war and fake "liberation". A generation of good people subjected to poverty and starvation, but I guess it's all right to starve under a Govt., as long as that govt. is African majority run. The world is a strange place, reality is always stranger than fiction.
These white boys speak a lot of sense and if only Smith would have listened, Rhodesia would have been a better place
@wellingtonmam, you can’t cut a deal with Communists. Look at Russia 🇷🇺 North Korea 🇰🇵 Cuba 🇨🇺, the Chinese 🇨🇳 are better. Everything Iain Smith warned black Zimbabweans about Communists has come to pass. No one died of hunger in Rhodesia and they were no street kids everywhere. There was more racism in Europe than it was in Rhodesia. Rhodesia was not South Africa like. The Laws that restricted 🚫 black people most of them Iain Smith found them there. Mugabe Cherry 🍒 picked and kept the ones he like, especially those that was used to detain him, made good use of them and are still being used today. Rhodesians were not lazy people and cared for each other, both blacks and whites.
@justinwaters8679, what rubbish why are you calling blacks in this documentary rhodesians,what an insult to Africans. Cecil Rhodes was a vicious man, a white racist who despised blacks. All the wealth he acquired on black land was gotten fraudulently. His name was used to create that name rhodesia, no sane black person ever referred to themselves as that dirty filthy name,it is only for white people, they identified with him and not blacks.
It’s amazing how competent some of these African man are. They really understood what was going on if only thing worked out different Zimbabwe should have been a symbol of African brain
May i point out that the megalomaniac that lead them to freedom, was very well educated.
@@johnsmit7203 Ha! Ain't that the grand irony looking back...
@@SevenRiderAirForce hilarious in fact
Mugabe's megalomania was less impressive compared to the delusional Ian Smith. He claimed not in a 1000 years but he was put in his rightful place.
@@munhumutapa1330 leaders always say crazy things but Mugabe was a fool
I see black people who really wanted Rhodesia to reform....
People say about the tragedy of Rhodesia was that there was no international support but the true tragedy is that international support would've been gained if there were steps taken to integrate, and its not like a lot of the black populus didn't realise that a Rhodesia with cooperation between races would have been the best outcome rather than majority rule, infact i've seen sources state as high as 70% of the Rhodesia military being black with as high as 80% of the police force. If Smith persued the path of cooperation more fervently then Rhodesia would've survived and been an example to all Africa of what they should strive to be. And the Zimbabweans of today can feel proud of their country
@@x2ernal357 hey and then there wouldn't of been poverty like there is today
@@chell1671 true, if the leaders of both sides recognised that both side could, wanted to and needed to cooperate then it'd be the most developed country in Africa by a mile and a half
@@x2ernal357 like it did in SA
Rhodesia was one of the few countries in Africa that gave free education to every child to a certain age, no matter their backgrund
Bullshit. That's Zimbabwe.
Yeah about that...
@@augustineminimbi5668 6 in every ten under Smith not the best European standards but the highest in Africa at the time, considering that unlike Zimbabwe the Europeans gave huge amounts of money to help pay for education in zimbabwe, not an option Smith had
6 in every ten in Rhodesia the highest in Africa, today in Nigeria Africa`s most populated count and rich 62% of children are at school, they are equal to where Rhodesia was 40 years ago, Ethiopia 1 chid in 116 attend school, you could have had it much worse.
@@monkey7072 did you pull those numbers out of your arse? Where did you get these numbers from?
Primary and secondary education was free in many African countries in the 70s.
Only if the current Zimbabwean could stand up for the change they want to see just as our elders did, yes even those in power today, they fought, we must until we create the Zimbabwe we want and deserve.
They were communist troops, really believing in freedom but you know - when both Communist and Liberal world supports you both materially, logistically, and through directly providing western intelligence
Zimbabweans try to revolt every year...the army just shoots us
@@tadiwamagwenzi3439 they are our parents but it seems they want us to take up arms against them! Betrayed independence...
The problem is the old Generation they completely failed so badly its funny
Knowing what their future held , its sad to see how optimistic these young men were .
Have you read the work of Charles Mills?
@@omalone1169 No , and no relation . BTW , if you want to meet a rabid racist , import a white liberal from the west and plant him in Africa for 5 years and watch the pendulum swing . This doesnt happen to indigenous white Africans because expectations are set at an early age . There is seldom direct conflict between individual Black / White Africans because the expectations are well understood . Individualism needs to thrive in Africa before its problems can be solved . Identity politics needs to die before any progress can be made .
Very sad indeed
I grew up watching Thames TV.
The intro sound track brings back memories of my childhood. Everything was British those days. Everything!
All new to me . How did you find this
That’s why the world is so screwed up
@@EquatorMarsupial😂
People from Zimbabwe sound smart and sensible ,both the African and the European .
The fact that education was free has a lot to do with that totally different than Apartheid
It was a very good education system, obviously as anyone can see. Bear in mind the producers of this video were firmly against the Smith government. A new look needs to be taken in the light of the truth without the baggage of fickle emotions.
The sound of that pestle and mortar right at the end there was very ominous, a ticking time bomb no less. Awesome production
Especially when considering the circumstances, the Black students showed great courage in saying what they said on television.
I doubt that today’s North Koreans or East Germans were or are less brave but that the system of surveillance in Rhodesia was less sophisticated. Furthermore there probably were some protections of civil liberties in Rhodesia under common law.
@@johnmajor9564 Agree, this interview is totally unthinkable in the Warsaw Pact of the past, where they criticize the government.
How so? The Rhodesians and South Africans/Afrikaners/Boers were incredibly fair and civilized people as is obviously seen here. Unless you were a communist slaughtering women and children like Mandela, you werent under any semblance of threat for engaging in dialogue
@@thegadflygang5381 rubbish. If you challenged Apartheid they'd deport or detain you if you were white and arrest you if black.
@@thegadflygang5381 Lmao “slaughtering women and children like Mandela” what a mentally deficient take. Ask yourself, would rather white or black in apartheid South Africa? In a normal country it shouldn't matter what race you are.
In any average high school class, the chance that you can randomly pick any boy to answer an interview question and still get such great responses across board is so low…
Thus is such an inspiration. If we could have names of these great generation of students to just see how they are today. I am sure they will be puzzled how come as Zimbabweans we are at what we are at.
My late father was one of them. MHSRIP
It's ironic, Zimbabwe replaced minority rule with minority rule.
Not really, a lot of post-colonial states never actually decolonize, the institutions, laws, and structures created by colonization generally get inherited, so in the case of Mugabe and his ethnic group they simply inherited the machinery of the White Minority Rule regime. This is why decolonization is never viable without a serious restructuring of the economy and political system.
see my thread above. sums up the scenario.
@@Justanothaguy
You mean they inherited civilisation?
@@WreckItRolfe This statement only works if we pretend the various city-ruins from the previous empires which existed in the regions (i.e. Great Zimbabwe) don't exist. Also if your definition of civilization is exploitative rule and marginalization of the native peoples, you're moral values are worse than any violent or enslaving society the Muslim or Mongol worlds produced.
@@Justanothaguy A good definition of civilization is objective quality of life improvements due to infrastructure and the public goods. If this can't be maintained (as is the case here) they have failed to maintain the civilization after inheriting it. Comparing this to Muslim or Mongol slavery is delusional.
These black guys spoke english so fluently
They were schooled by the best
@@Laotzu.Goldbug which is why they're extinct.
You speak as if that's something to be proud of
@@Jamluji Its just zimcelebz , the only thing they can think of. SAD
Please....we are not savages
The confidence and eloquence is mind blowing
16:00 so we have to pretend they had a legitimate regime
Can today's young people speak with such clarity of thought?
Ask oba t shaka . He spoke of this in "the generation gap"
St Ignatius produced a lot of forward thinking kids then and now. I was at the sister School St. Dominics in the 80’s and most of my classmates are very successful in their chosen fields. Unfortunately we are now in the diaspora because of bad Government!
It's funny that people can invade occupy and then legitimately form a government which is then normalised
Can you not see the irony.
African nationalists destroyed Rhodesia and European rule.
Yet now Zimbabweans migrate to countries where there are Europeans to enjoy European built western civilisation.
@@woodland5325Exactly... This is just observable fact That question needs to be answered logically. Any takers?
I am so proud of these little and very young schoolboys who though having been so repressed speak with the intelligence of the world's best politicians and with the heart of Africa's most fiercest lions I love every single one of them and I will always look upon them as my Brothers and brother warriors indeed better warriors than I and I salute them.
I wish i could know were are these young zimbabwenes,and am sure there a now old .💗
“Repressed” but are highly educated in a “oppressive government” they starved themselves with their fake freedom Rhodesia was heaven compared to “Zimbabwe”
It would be nice to trace and interview these boys now that they are older gentlemen today. It would be nice to hear their opinion on how things have changed. 🇿🇦
True
This is where you need investigative journalists to look and find them. Most of them are still alive I guess
21:50 *THIS CHILD HAS MORE SENSE THAT ALL WESTERN PEOPLE OF THE LAST 40 YEARS COMBINED*
That's a sorry view..
@@nyashachivore7191 You're a sorry person
Guy had it right
So many good informational shows from the sixties and seventies. I have also been enjoying The Firing Line interviews hosted by Buckley. There you get the point of view from the powerful politicians in depth.
Hey Botha . I like his interview with Ian Smith
@@omalone1169 Glad to hear!
Same here!
People should understand that Zimbabwe is led by people who fought in a bloody civil war when they were teenagers. That kind of trauma doesn't just go away. Look at Europe after both wars in the 20th century. It took decades to get them back on track. The only miracle was Japan which went from being vanquished to the second largest economy in the world after 20 years.
@@whatsMyNameAgainAgain The Wind Rush. Need I say more about all the resources taken from colonies, loans and investments from the US, aid from the Commonwealth nations including Rhodesia, Canada, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand. And it's not as if the UK wasn't an industrial power prior to the war. The first one in the world. And you're comparing to a £3 billion pound economy with about £400 million pounds debt accumulated by the Rhodesian government during the War and UN sanctions.
I'd like to assume you're not that daft and this was just a mistake
@@whatsMyNameAgainAgainit also took until Thatcher's reign that the UK was back on track.
Ireland which had gone through a war of independence post world war 1 and an immediate civil war only became self sufficient in.the 90s. That's 70 years it took the Irish to be a developed country. This is home to one of the finest group of people who have make an indelible mark on western socioeconomic status the world at large. They needed 70 years and the troubles raged on until Tony Blair called for peace.
Zimbabwe saw a genocide committed on it's people by ZANU during it's first 7 years. We have a lot of healing to do and couldn't give a toss what any white man, woman and child has to say about it. Focus on your own countries and leave us suffer in peace
One of them was my dad lol he passed away November 2017
What happened of him.....did he participate in building Zimbabwe
He is still your dad, dead or alive
The black populations of Rhodesia and South Africa grew at a rapid rate. The countries were the wealthiest and most developed in the region and the native population was boosted by the arrival of blacks from other countries such as Malawi and Mozambique who moved to Rhodesia and South Africa to find work.
The natives weren't, the bulk of Africans under both regimes lived under abject poverty and had incredibly low rates of development, this is why their populations, grew, regions with low standards of living generally have high birthrates, parents producing children in order to create more working hands, if we look at per capita stats, both Apartheid South Africa and Rhodesia are abysmal for the majority of the population, while the White settler population boasted an impressive living standard.
@@Justanothaguy Cameron, excellent observations. I recently posted a fresh thread above highlighting the well-peddled inaccurate / misrepresentative narrative. It is altogether neater to present the current turmoil in a simplistic package merely entitled "Robert Mugabe the dictator" - but that version is lazy. In many respects, he was a reaction to status quo and a bi-product of incumbent policies. Much like the need/success of Trump/ism was in USA created by Obama and the general neo-Conservative, globalist approach that forced that portion of the electorate to pine for what has now perjoratively been labelled as "populism" rather than than popular grass-roots movements.
@@Justanothaguy if you look at the wider implications of white settlement around the world, there is one glaring factor that the world refuses to recognize when the Europeans went into the Americas North and South they utterly destroyed the indigenous populations of these countries how many countries in the Americas has presidents and governments are the majority of the indigenous people? the same can be said for Aboriginals and Maori in New Zealand, how is it possible that the Africans in southern Africa ie white-controlled Africa are guilty of genocide and racism where the indigenous people's poluation grew bigger than the incoming white settlers? and all these other countries that don`t have Apartheid are free and none racial, my guess is they made sure that the local indigenous people were never going to be a problem, what is quite clear both the Rhodesian and South Africans made the mistake of not acting like European settlers in true fashion, and their failure to employ the racist strategy of whit Settler in the Americas, Australia, New Zealand was their downfall, it is clear that black majorities took over in these countries, and that the Africans in Southern African had a far better deal and were better off than their counterparts elsewhere in the world, when will we have a first nations President in the USA, Canada, South America or Australia. the very fact that more Africans were alive after the whites moved into southern African showed they were better off than other indigenous people who actually did suffer genocide.
@@monkey7072
"How is it possible that the Africans in southern Africa, i.e., white-controlled Africa, are guilty of genocide and racism where the indigenous people's population grew bigger than the incoming white settlers?"
So the difference between Australia and the New World were isolated from the Old World for many thousands of years. For various reasons, some of which are still being debated, Old World populations developed more diverse and robust immune systems than people elsewhere. When European explorers and colonists reached Australia and the Americas, the natives died in large numbers from imported diseases. Their societies collapsed, and it was easy for colonists to move in, mop-up, and push any survivors off their land and into the least desirable territory. Africa, however, was not thus cut off from the rest of the Old World. Africa (the whole continent) was very much in touch with Europe and Asia and hosts more human genetic diversity than the rest of the world combined. Diseases like smallpox and yellow fever, which were dangerous new viruses in the Americas, New Zealand, and Australia, were already present in most of tropical and saharan Africa. European settlers brought few diseases with them, and natives did not obligingly die off when they showed up in Southern Africa save for the isolated communities of Khoisan. Without an empty landscape to fill up, colonists didn't have the room to multiply the way they did in the Western Hemisphere and Oceania. In addition to that, the Europeans also relied heavily on low-paid labor. And in the earliest stages of colonization, slave labor of the indigenous African population is why Southern Africa's white settlers were a minority. In addition to that, the vast emptying of Australia and the New World Attracted more immigration per capita than Southern Africa. Even with the Diamon Rush in South Africa's Transvaal and Orange Free State, immigration never matched the level demographically the late-19th century surge of European immigration hit with the US, Argentina, and Brazil.
"it is clear that black majorities took over in these countries"
Tey didn't take over the country, they were granted the rights due to them as citizens, these regions always hosted majorities for the indigenous African population, they were blocked from equal representation and basic rights by Rhodesia and South Africa.
"The very fact that more Africans were alive after the whites moved into southern African showed they were better off than other indigenous people who actually did suffer genocide."
Wrong, not dying as a result of disease and thus your population's demographics remaining the same isn't a display of how good colonization in Southern Africa was, it displays that isolated regions are susceptible to disease. It says nothing about the colonial policies of European settlers, it shows how biology works. This argument fails because of established science of disease and population immunity.
@@Justanothaguy very nice and complicated answer, but it does not address the question I asked, we could go on forever about what killed off the native peoples and we know it was sickness smallpox e.t.c., the Africans in Southern Africa were no more immune to smallpox than the Native peoples in America, the European brought the same illness with them to Africa due to the climate was far more contiguous than the eastern parts of the US where the devastation was far more severe in loss of life that also spread through all of the Americas. the policy of deliberate attack on natives to destroy by both British and later US and Spanish, and other European governments was the same throughout. I am not defending South Africa European settlement any more than defending American European settlement. but if all the results are correct why does southern Africa have a majority of native people at the end of white rule? what was different in southern Africa that change the result from the rest of white European colonization, no native peoples in Southern African were exterminated unlike everywhere else.... why? what finished off native people everywhere was government policy, those natives in Southern African had their lands restored to them, unlike the rest of the native peoples of colonization who have not, and will not, as the governments whether intended or not will never be returned to them, so yes the natives of Southern Africa did have it easier and were permitted to be a majority, unlike everywhere else. it does not make whites better than everyone else but it does they are no worse than anyone else.
13:30 "If an African government were to take over, it would hit rock bottom."
Hit the nail right on the head - that's exactly what happened.
It's hard to admit it but it's the truths...corruption and greed African gvmnt...
Still not an excuse to repress someone in their country
@@wirimayimukarakate9619 I don't do excuses. I simply stated: his prediction was bang on!
The mistake was the racism the settlers brought from Europe. How do you oppress someone in their own country, I would choose corruption over colonialism if that's the price to pay for freedom.
@@wirimayimukarakate9619 racism is in their blood,they were born with it, that is why they don't see anything wrong with it, they only see corruption done by few leaders, which has got nothing to do with the majority of people.
I would like to meet these former intelligent students if they are still alive.... they were stars
The best commentary ever❤
Absolutely no, infact we have have very rogue generation believing in spoon feeding full of self hate and sell outs
The clarity of thought is top tier
Just wow.
Does anyone know other channels that have similar content (old news items/documentaries)? I love this stuff.
British Pathe is a good one.
Look up the documentary "Frontline Rhodesia" if you're interested in the settimg and conflict.
@@matthew1882 will do, thanks, but I am just generally interested in old news items/documentaries - not just subject specific
insightful
Wow! very very interesting
Honestly been researching about Rhodesia. The conclusion I've come up with is that Rhodesia Europeans were correct in keeping the wealth voting system since the vast majority of residents didn't have allegiance to the state or the ideals of uniting together for the greater good of the nation and the progress for a better future. Ian Smith could have implemented a federal job guarantee run by local councils to improve the infrastructure and educational needs of the populace (check out modern monetary theory). I believe this would have improved relations with the native Zimbabweans and encourage economically integration of the whole nation. Indirectly discourage the enlisting of guruela fighters by offering a meaningful job to anyone who seeks work. Just my thoughts, please leave any comments for further intellectual discussion. ( I'm a native black African )
Very interesting idea, I have been researching Rhodesia and Zimbabwe for years and have met people from there on my train going to work in Williston North Dakota, it can be great again, but the government needs a revamp and tribes need to unite and have a goal to build up, maybe tell foreign business to invest in people and education not just extract profits, get farmers back or lure South African farmers to the country, also outlaw corruption with harsh punishment, they could even be a model for the USA
In my view, the displacement of the whites was inevitable. It only was a question of how quickly and how violent it would happen... Ian Smith was fighting for the very preservation of his people. It was a life or death struggle. There was no compromise. I would have said genocide was the answer. I think that a white state would have been the answer - but no one would have allowed that.
Now the whole country is being held hostage by primitive, uneducated, naive voters from under developed areas like Uzumba 🤦🏾♀️ those are some of the consequences of allowing everyone to vote!
I agree overall and wish the Smith government had actually implemented an education program to eventually fulfil his promise to move to majority rule once the black population had a comparable level of education. Mugabe was a great man in that he brought freedom to the majority and freedom alongside destitution is better than captivity alongside destitution but I can't help feeling that if Smith had been able to accept the facts and implement an actual plan for majority rule by engaging with the entire population the original (black and white) population would still be living together in relative harmony much more prosperously than they are now.
These guys were so fluent in the queen's language
You right not this boring English accent they are speaking today
@@sydkhumbu51 lol yes, so true
these looks back at history are fascinating
This was very interesting to watch as a South African..
Where are they NOW?
I wish it was possible at that time to caption their names....but for safety reasons it is obvious the producers couldn't risk that on national TV. I'd very much like to know where these boys are now.®®®
They are around, They are now doing the same to fellow black people of other tribes. It is now an Animal Farm situation.
These guys were way ahead time
The eloquence of these high school guys is amazing
This is incredible.
Seems those kids understand that majority rule doesn’t necessarily mean a good rule.
How could this people speak good enough in the nineties❤️😌
1971
The likes of Edson , Herbet , Edgar and formidable figures to reckon during Smith's regime.
Amazing documentary
Great programme
This is what us the younger generations should be doing
NOT ZVANA MAI TT
@@mpumelelomoyo3747 they were very focussed
I loved how our boys were intelligent back then very eloquent.
I wonder how the world would be if people lived together as equally and shared knowledge in everything....
10:30 you need to read Tommy Curry alongside Steve Biko to understand this
Was gonna e very fruitful
Interesting video
I like the clarity of views from this generation of the youth - there is a deep contrast from the way of thinking we have today. What went wrong?
The clash of civilisation I guess
The excess of democracy
The Black population of Rhodesia was around 700,000 at the start of the 20th Century and then grew 5 times to 3.6million by 1962. At that time the White population was 220,000. Prior to the improvements in food production, medicine the population remained broadly balance with high death rates balancing the high birth rates. Had the African population grown at a slower rate, for example 1.2% per year rather than 2.7%, the political situation would have have been some what different. With 1.4m Africans and 0.22m Europeans, the balance would have been different, by the 1960s. The dynamics of the Bush War would have also been different in the late 1970s. In real life by the 1977 there were 0.28m Europeans and 6.5m Africans, if instead there had been 1.7m Africans and 0.3m Europeans a ratio of less than 6 to 1, instead of 23 to 1.
The population in Rhodesia was not evenly distributed by racial group. The urban areas in 1962 were nearly 25% White (containing 800,000 people). the White owned countryside was around 6% white (with a further 700,000 people), a further 3million people lived in the African reserve areas (which were essentially 100%).
Similarly the population growth across South Africa, had profound consequences. The African population grew from 3.5 million to 20 million between 1904 and 1980, a rate of 2.3% per year. If instead the African population growth had been 1% per year, giving an African population of 7.2m by 1980, the political situation would have been even more dramatically different. Across the whole of South African the population in 1980 was 15.7% European and 72.2% Black, instead it would have been 24.5% European and 56.5% Black. But at that time a large part of the Black population were living in the Black independent and semi autonomous homelands. 10.8m people living in the Black homelands and 18m living in the rest of South Africa. The population in South Africa in 1980, excluding the black homelands was: 25% White, 56% Black, 14.5% Coloured and 4.5% Asian. In the alternative scenario of slower steadier African population growth, the population in the main part of the country would have been: 34.7% White, 39% Black, 20% Coloured, 6.3% Asian.
Just like in Rhodesia the White population was concentrated in the Western built urban centres. In 1980 the Urban population of South Africa, excluding the Black states was: 33.1% White, 44% Black, 16.6% Coloured and 6.3% Asian. Under the alternative slower population growth, the Urban population would have been: 42.5% White, 28.3% Black, 21.3% Coloured, 7.9% Asian. The history post 1980, would have been probably quite different, if majority rule did come, the ANC would have not been as dominate as they are.
In the Cape Province in 1980 the population was 24.8% White, 43.7% Coloured, 30.8% Black, 0.6%. It is interesting what the situation would have been there, had the apartheid government not alienated the Coloured part of the population, by stripping their voting rights in the early 1950s.
Demographics are destiny.
Had Europe not lost so many people in ww1 and 2 they likely would have filled Southern Africa just like America.
I'd love to see a "where are they now" type follow up for the people interviewed all those years ago.
I reckon most are dead or at the very best struggling to survive and wishing they hadn't been so quick to get rid of the whities sadly .
From a paradise to a hell thanks Jimmy Carter and David Owens
Young then but courageous to speak. They were never scared of jail, this is something else in these ones
Wow! St Ignatius College, many of us wanted to go to that school. The level of english is very impressive! 180 students only made it to A level. that was incredible!
what is incredible? 180 African kids out of the whole population of black kids? are you serious right now ?
@@samud7041 what is incredible are the 180 that made it despite the harsh conditions! In any case, it's the past..now that zimbabwe is free, what is it becoming that is the question....
@@vhikai well no question there, Zimbabwe has become a worse place than it was during the apartheid error. Thanks to our fellow tribesmen discriminating against other tribesmen. Seems like people learnt only the bad traits from our former colonial masters , now it’s a black attacking black , where do you live? Seems like you don’t know how our black leaders are corrupt and collecting wealth while the poor suffer, the little jobs available are only rigged with nepotism,tribalism and and other horrible isms.... l could go on....
Level of English very impressive......that is colonial mentality
@@charlielineekelamwaetako1173 hows that famine treating you?
13:35 This my friends is what we call "foreshadowing"
Nice to see what St Ignatius was like back then. Great college; had loads of fun there.
I love Rhodesia even though I come from a country as distant as Poland. Rhodesian history and how you were betrayed reminds the story of my own country. I've never even been to Africa, but I wish I could see Rhodesia again.
You are welcome get intouch when you want to visit. It is indeed a beautiful country.
Least racist pole
That man said "if communism is going to bring them freedom they will accept that ideology. For tht matter I can assure you that western democracy and civilization is really losing popularity in the country. " And how true that was. Both leaders from the native ethnic groups subscribed to communist ideologies, one Chinese and the other Russian. And now because the west failed to assert that democracy is the best way to govern a country, Zimbabwe is now run in a communist fashion but under the guise of "democracy".
Except, it isn't communist anymore, hasn't been for a while lmao
Democracy failed. Is the irony lost to you? You expected Africans to be pro democracy at that time when that very same institution denied them rights?
@@Jamluji the colonial regime wasn't democracy tho. It was totalitarianism by colour. Black people had no voice. Besides, communism or rather this "pseudo-communism" didn't do us any good either
@@macmac3205 ok. I agree with you that today's Zim and other countries are not communist regimes. My point was that at that time, communist and Marxist ideologies offered a path to independence. What has happened after that is an abomination. A catastrophic betrayal of the ideals Africans had imagined for themselves. Simultaneously, there hasn't been a democracy that has offered fair treatment for all its citizens. As a matter of fact, western democracies matured vis-a-vis inhumane repression of non whites. Western democracy is hypocritical. It is a a great ideal m. But it was reserved for a minority (considering that non whites are a global majority). In other words, Western nations have no leg to stand on morally. This doesn't excuse the ineptitude of African governments following the independence movement
@@Jamluji 1) Mugabe was heavily aligned with Communist China and he ruled in an almost communist way. I mean, the Man was president for almost 40 years and made sure most of the service industry was govt owned. The events leading up to the 2008 disaster were largely due to more communist policies that were put in place. So while communism offered independence it also ruined Zim's potential
2) injustice is an inevitable consequence of the human experience. No political ideology is without it's flaws. However, communism has a track record of causing suffering. I mean, there hasn't been a nation that has adopted communism and flourished. In fact, democracy has benefitted more POC across the world than communism. I believe in zim specifically democracy is not working because there is no democracy.
3) in what way exactly does Western democracy today treat ethnic minorities unjustly? Do their votes count for half that of the white man in say USA?
100% agree tho that African countries shouldn't make any excuses for the disaster that ensued post independence. In fact I believe even the general citizen is at fault
When he said "and even greater sacrifices for the freedom of the country.." he might have subliminally said am ready to cross into Mozambique and come back a guerilla
This thing of Rhodesians/ Zimbabweans being learned and not getting jobs has been there for years kanti😑🤔
That's true, an educated person is different from one who isn't.
It's better to misgovern ourselves than to be governed well by others.... Ntsu Mokhehle.
Who is that guy at 5:36. He must have gone really far
He spoke like a future leader
This is very exciting,wish they'd be the future leaders
Bless everyone ❤️🙏
They were sooo oppressed that they were going to high school ,universities, had access to the best medical facilities in all of Africa,had jobs for those who wanted to work and earn a living, had no worries of going hungry, thirsty, had better clothing and dressed better in Rhodesia then in 2023 Zimbabwe ,had electricity, modern things that ppl in the west had at that time, low crime, safe and so on.Those who refused to live in a civilized society and picked up weapons to fight the government were dealt with just as in any other country.From one of the most advanced and prosperous countries in all of Africa to a backward dump full of starving people dying from famine,lack of water, diseases, tribal conflicts, country looted of anything and everything valuable and today is the most backward nation in Africa.Rhodesia was at least 150 years ahead of Zimbabwe
The level of education shows how commited smith was to ensuring his fellow black rhodesian would stand tall in the world stage....well done smith
I would love to hear interviews with these guys today, as elderly men and women. In particular I think the St Ignatius guys would have done better than most in post-colonial Zimbabwe. On the other hand Zimbabwe is not in great shape these days. Some of their hopes and dreams have been realised, but there is also great disillusionment. They never want to go back to being ruled by an ethnic minority, but African nationalism has let them down big time. The road country takes to political maturity is never an easy one, and Zimbabwe still has a long way to go.
Young bright students, where are thy now? Hope thy are now professors
I feel intune with my ancestors
Many of these young men were likely to find each other on opposite sides in the Bush War later on in the 70s
wish they had found each other at a round table
Why CZcams has been suppressing this. I can't believe I'm coming across this after 7 good months.
i think as Zimbabweans in 2022, we are reliving Rhodesia with this oppressive Mnangagwa Regime
At least Mnagagwa allows Rhodesians to return to Rhodesia. But I am convinced that, from the point of view from that time. Rhodesia's government was better for both blacks and whites.
Tears are rolling down my face now as I am listening to these kids. My people suffered under this white government. It’s sad that ZANU PF has done exactly what Smith and his people believed.
@@Legatus_Averyius Really? You are mad.
@@Legatus_Averyius Really? You are mad.
Zimbabwe was never risen in the first place.. Rhodesia was.. So the differences are way back in Rhodesia there were fences that stood straight up, but in Zimbabwe not anymore, roads were in fantastic condition,, but not anymore, buildings had paint, many don’t anymore, Roads had paint markings on, not anymore, Roads were maintained and repaired long ago, not anymore. 99% of all buildings were built pre independence, not much infrastructure added since 1980. Quite sad actually that we have not been able to better or exceed what the colonials achieved in the time they controlled our country. Let’s face the facts. The colonials came to an empty land and built all this in 50 years, we have had it for 40 years and have not achieved much at all. We seem to be going backwards if we are honest with ourselves. Our roads are deteriorating, yet there are are five times as many cars on the road now than there were in Rhodesia. Where are our taxes going. They certainly aren’t going back into the roads and development. It’s the same in every government department, sewage spills onto the streets, electricity shortages, food shortages, hospitals are inadequate, trains don’t run anymore, filth and litter spread across streets and entire country, hawkers occupy the pavements where we were once able to walk, there is human waste in the ally’s and the stench of urine is overwhelming because public toilets don’t work or have not been expanded to cater for the population growth.
It’s good you have done this comparison because it shows our failures to build and improve on. We need to stop kidding ourselves that the colonials are to blame for our problems and face the facts that our country is sick and dying because of the Fat corrupt Zimbabwean politicians that have become wealthy beyond our wildest dreams on the taxes we pay for the upkeep of our towns and infrastructure. The entire continent is broken, let’s be honest, we don’t do anything, we just watch or let others do the work. The Chinese are taking over. Big projects are run virtually entirely by the Chinese from architect to builder. We just watch. Even the Sheraton hotel in Harare was built by foreigners. We need to wake up.
@@Legatus_Averyius We were better off under Smith's government compared to the current regime!
@@Legatus_Averyius we were very happy before the soul destroyers showed up.
There needs to be a movement to retake this nation. Zimbabwe is hell.
when a culture is in its historical phase of growing toward unity, its language reflects the unity and power; whereas when a culture is in the process of change, dispersal and disintegration, the language likewise loses its power. Rollo May
Good documentary
What would be really good would be if someone could find these young men and interview them now, if they are still alive having survived forty odd years of Mugabe that is. Get their opinions now, having lived a life and gained wisdom, what they said now would be actually very informative. Don’t know why media types always want to get the opinions of teenagers like this, its somehow like they have any knowledge, which they don’t. You know what they say employ a teenager while they still know everything.
Interviewing that priest gives me the creeps as well, wonder what he was getting up to at the time, makes you skin crawl.
It doesn't matter what they'd say now. What matters now is what today's youth are thinking. What issues are they facing and what solutions do they propose. Boomers are not the answer today
My dad was one..they aren't too surprised. As one of the young man interviewed said, no one represented them. The failings are of the gvt at the time..to try to act as if the regular blks in Rhodesia possessed any form of political entelechy is foolish thinking at best but usually just lazy gaslighting.
@@tafadzwashepherd4580 Thankyou for your reply, I would really enjoy hearing some of your dads thoughts. Entelechy, what a strange choice of words, I don't agree they had none in Rhodesia by the way, with their education they would have within a few years had plenty I would have guessed. I met an educated Blk as you put it from Rhodesian times and he had to flee Zimbabwe ended up in Aus as a refugee, he told me he would have been shot by Mugabe's henchmen. How did your dad fair, did he stay in Zim or go to SA or some where else, maybe he was even one of Mugabe's henchmen. Be interested to hear his story.
@@dalane5196 my dad left in 82 for Scotland of all places, but had the bright Idea to go back in 86 thinking the worst was over and he could do some good for his 'country'. My dad would be the opposite of Mugabe's henchmen, he literally fell out with his much wealthier brother who fraternised with the Mugabe's due to that association, quit his position in protest in 2000 during land reform and ran several ngos.
He always attributed the failure of Rhodesia to the Far Right Smith gvt, pusillanimous Brits and lastly the commie terrorists. But the terrorists result from a broken system. The Rhodesian government failed to understand its place in time, and the very nation itself they were trying to build. As usual greed and avarice at the top led to a refusal to acceot what was coming and prepare for it, the story of Zimbabwe is just a continuation of that failing. There is a chord between the present and the past. My dad passed away a few years ago, heartbroken still.
@@tafadzwashepherd4580 I am very sorry your dad never found his happiness, mind you Zimbabwe does not have a lot to be happy about for anyone I guess. It was disgraceful in my opinion how Britain hauled down the flag and left many nations to their own devices and basically at the mercy of commie thugs in a almost obscene haste. I guess they felt they had little choice been broke after the war and with the US pushing them to get out of empire post haste. It could have been done far better leaving viable nations with a democratic framework and culture if it had been carried out more slowly and gradually, handing government over piece by piece. I also think if they, the UK, had given the Smith government time, keeping pressure on them for reform, instead of sanctioning and cutting them off. by the 1990s we could have arrived at free elections and reform with out handing the show over to a bunch of murdering thugs. Ended up with something more like Botswana than Zimbabwe. But history cannot be reversed and it is what it is, it is also very hard to predict outcomes, even with the benefit of hind sight.