Smythe's Route - 1933
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- čas přidán 19. 07. 2022
- Review of Eric Shipton and Frank Smythes 1933 route on Mount Everest. Compares it to Norton's 1924 route and looks at various assessments Smythe made including where Smythe thought Mallory and Irvine might have fallen to from the ice axe location.
Thanks for the video. Smythe turned around only 4 hours after starting his climb, did not use O2, suffered from hallucinations, and yet came back down to camp 6 rather fine. Mallory and Irvine had O2 so one would assume that if they had turned around early as well they would've made it down just fine. You could also assume that if they had trouble due to altitude it would occur much later thanks to O2, at what point turning around might have been out of the question (summit fever ?). All in all when you think about how Smythe's climb went, you can only assume that M&I really had a great shot at summiting, and that they did not make it back because that shot was really good unlike Norton and Smythe.
Good analysis. I would point out that Shipton turned around at the First Step when he was having problem and later descended from Camp 6 during a "storm" and got back just fine. The 1933 Camp 6 is a higher and closer to the summit than the 1924 camp 6, but it seems pretty clear Mallory and Irvine did not simply turn around.
i think one of them fell on the way back because it was dark, it was dark because they made it to the summit
Great catch
These route videos are really outstanding.
I love these route guides also
Seems that spending that additional night due to bad weather at camp six did cost them too much energy. Another thought: The 1933 expedition was the first expedition after Mallory and Irvine had died on the mountain. It could be that Smythe had too much of bad thoughts about that he himself would perish when trying some all-out attempt like M&I did. Maybe the 1933 team talked a lot about if it makes sense or not to take higher risk, like the sort M&I did in 1924.
Michael, thank you again for these thought provoking videos. The story of Smythe’s UFOs really resonated with me.
I have only once experienced temperatures below -24F. It was at Lake Louise, near Banff. I had worked my way out to the back of the ski resort very early one morning. The temp was -40C, which I think is colder than the temps reported at Camp 6 in this video.
Anyway, half way up a ski lift, the engine switched off, fell silent and I was left swinging in the air. There was no other skier on the lift and I started to panic. Whilst I was hanging there, hoping all my affairs were in order and resolving to tell more people I loved them, the clouds parted and the light was suddenly dazzling. And while I was adjusting to the sudden light, I saw two weird, ugly black shapes with edges around them very similar to what Smythe describes, although mine seemed to be tethered together by some sort of string. whenever I tried to focus on them, they pulsed weirdly, not in any rhythm at all, and moved around in weird, chaotic directions .
It turns out, it was my first cognition of eye floaters. It was the first time my brain had to comprehend objects that were closer to my brain than the outside of my eyelids (which is where the rest of the world had existed up until that point).
I wonder whether climbers (including Smythe) experience this, ie whether the extreme environment cold and altitude brings on an awareness of eye floaters that wasn’t experience before.
Did you die? Don't leave us in suspense.
I think its quite clear you have pushed well past the homework the M and I research left you , and now you are the teacher , you have filled in every hole they left in this mystery(many) and given people who have never been on the mountain better descriptions of it than 6 months of looking at pictures searching the interweb . Got to say you have an incredible Brain for deduction , and your broader understanding of this is incredible . I have to ask do you research for a living ?
Sounds like a swell guy, chilling under UFOs and making sure his imaginary friend wasn't hungry.
I find it really disturbing how many Irvine sightings are just accepted but no one ever like... took a picture. Anyone climbing Everest would know they made the scoop of the century, maybe the Chinese guy didn't carry his own camera, but the supposed 1995 sighting I don't believe actually occurred, since of COURSE you'd take a photo! I hope NAT GEO will release all the drone footage next year for the centenary. Edited a typo
The feeling that you have an invisible companion is nothing new, nor is it limited to climbers on Everest, or mountain climbers specifically.
In the The Third Man Factor: Surviving the Impossible, author John Geiger explorers this phenomenon and offers several possible causes.
One thing that stands out is that Norton made it as far as the couloir and managed to return alive (just) and the 1933 expedition also made it as far as the couloir and managed to stay alive. There is no obvious reason for me to suggest that M&I were less able or fit as the before mentioned climbers but they did not manage to return alive. That can only mean that they got further up the mountain or they tried and failed on a section that caused them to be physically unable to return safely or in a timely manor. I also get the impression that had Norton gone higher than he did, he would not have come back alive and the same has to be said for the 1933 expedition.
Полность согласен
I also agree 🏴
Norton knew he was shafted if he didn't turn back. He was all about his personal dignity and dying on the mountain was not his game. Mallory on the other hand was win or bust.
I've had fingerless gloves at minus 15 . My fingers were fine apart from the totally white nails. But my hand was not cold on the inside .
Awesome stuff. Love the analysis. I have often wondered about the light availability throughout M&I journey. How much moonlight was there for their descent? Headlights? etc...
That's in the Watch video.
It must have been so hard for these pioneers.
We see the mountain today and we have all the information at our disposal, so it's simply a question of, are you personally up to it?
Back then, there were no routes or aids and they're viewing and having to analyse everything through the lens of exhaustion, in places no man has ever stepped or seen close up before.
Having to make tactical and analytical decisions, when lives are on the line, not knowing what's even possible, in extreme conditions, whilst physically on the limit, must be a nightmare and i think we can forgive them, for the most part, for any decisions and accounts, which may be frustrating to us.
True pioneers they were Mr H
POV Click notifications, click video, like video, watch video. Keep up the great work, Michael
Can you please make an educated speculation on whether Malloy and Irvine were likely tied together?
I'm curious where Irvine would have fallen to, if he fell further than Malloy.
These early attempts at 8000m peaks are jaw dropping.
Also, why do many people assume that Mallory passed away where he was discovered? He could have been blown or dislodged from his original resting place several times.
Good video Michael. The 2019 alleged search of the area you think will bear fruit - was that done by Synott or Norton's crew?
Not sure. Jake Norton has it marked on his map, but it was not in the TV show he did nor any of the videos he released. Synnott's team just used the drone photos and walked over the the "Holzel slot." So, it is marked as being "searched" in 2019, but I have no idea who even is claiming to have searched it.
Got to say your information fills so many holes in descriptions of the mountain ,
Those pioneers were tough as nails. True expert climbers.
Is the potential location of Irvine on the slope/fall line of Mallory's slide down? Otherwise we see they split up, and Mallory was well further down/along the mountain? With a length of broken rope tied round his waist?
How certain can we be today that Mallory was roped up with Irvine? This always gets mentioned as some kind of certainty which I can not easily accept, is it not possible that Mallory's rope injuries stem from being attached to some rock and falling without Irvine being there at all?
There is no place in the vicinity of the fall location that a reasonable person would attach a rope to a rock and try to descend. There are a series of slabs that were traversed by Norton, Somervell, Shipton, Smyth, Longland, and Wyn-Harris all without even thinking about doing so. Norton and Somervell also descended earlier along a steeper line also without resorting to this technique -- and they were both in pretty bad shape.
@@michaeltracy2356 Thank you Micheal for your reply. I watched the 5 part CZcams documentary about the 1999 expedition that found Mallory, there they say that one could only get severe rope injuries like Mallory had on his body if he was attached to a non moving object.
Here for you
@Michael Tracy: any plans to do a video on Maurice Wilson? From the account in his diary, found after his death, he had similar experiences to Smythe. His entire story sounds ... well, let's say "wildly improbable" in a number of other ways. Perhaps our modern mountaineers are devout followers of Everest tradition?
No immediate plans for a Maurice Wilson video. Going to do the zig-zag video and then switch the focus to raising money for satellite photos. Need to take the photos in Sep-Dec or May, so expect to see some stuff about that.
@@michaeltracy2356 Hi Michael, how much does a satellite image cost?
@@alananton9022 We are discussing that over in the Yeti Academy. The basics are that an image costs about $3000 and you can do multiple passes. So, a triple-pass image costs about $9000. However, the extra resolution by each pass is probably not worth it and likely we will go with multiple single pass images to deal with the problem of the snow.
I'll have some more information on this shortly and will do a video in the next couple of week. The goal is to take the photos around November of this year, as that is a good time to get low snow. But you can just go to Google Earth and see that some years there is snow and some years there is not. So, a single image has about a 1 in 5 chance of being useful.
Only Story on Maurice Wilson is how hes still in the Moraine , and how he is belittled for his Mental health yet also an MC winner from the Worlds worse war . an Hour from Basecamp he is nothing but a gory spectacle , yet people climb 8000 metres to try to rescue Irvine as everyone wants to be famous and wants the money that it brings . Not many men who manned a Lewis gun in WW1 came out of the war at peace with themselves same as Helicopter Gunners in Vietnam .
@@michaeltracy2356 Have you sussed out the locations you suspect Xu and Wang sighted Irvine in 1960 and 75 and was there heavy snow in the area at the time?
Showing that the best way to win an argument is to outlive your opponent.. haha
Good stuff.
It would seem there was little to no pause for Smythe in taking Norton's route because to go the ridge-route appeared way too daunting and the the 2nd Step was unassailable with its countenance appearing like "the sharp bow of a battle cruiser!"
The whole route through the 2nd step seems to have been an obvious bad choice to everyone, except the Chinese. Michael has mentioned this before, and it seems to be repeatedly borne out; the only reason the second step constitutes the modern route, is because the Chinese need to create the impression that their 1960 climb was successful. And the best way to do that (when they refuse to prove it with the summit rocks) is by making it seem like they found the optimum route.
@@CharlesFreck Come on Charles! You mean you're not buying that Liu Lien-man fell multiple times attempting the 2nd Step and needed 15mins to recover each time? Or, that Chu Yin-hua took his boots and socks off in his attempts? Or, that it took them 3 hours to climb the 3-metre slab and 5hrs total for the 2nd Step? Or, that they held a Party group meeting after completion of the 2nd Step where they left Liu Lien-man behind and, at times, crawled on all fours? Or, that they summited in darkness after 19hrs while Lien-man did a bivouac? Or, Chu Yin-hua's suspicious photo at 8,700m which actually appears to be lower near the 2nd Step? Or, 11.5hrs to descend from the summit after leaving the bust of Mao; 30+hrs of continual climbing from Base Camp in a single push?
Yaaaaawwn!!! All a bit over-the-top I'd say!
Yes, over the top, but not Everest's top :-)
@@edkiely2712
Don't forget that they didn't have any water and it was dark. Super hero stuff.
It wasn’t an imaginary companion. It was a Yeti. Al gore rhythm.
At 3:03 where you have the Holzel slot circled, I just don't see where it is.
I do a whole video about it: czcams.com/video/2i9nOnIMr_k/video.html
@michaeltracy2356 Thanks for the reply. I think I see where it is now. In the video it looks like you have the blue man placed "in" where the opening of the slot is, which runs sort of parallel to the ridge.
We have to accept they made it .
You was on Everest?
👍👍
👍👍👍
You've been up there, do you think it's possible to find Irvine? Unless of course you listen to Thom Pollard who suggests that the Chinese, in an attempt to "clean up" the mountain, found him and tossed his body over the ridge or wherever else he wishes to speculate on.
I suspect something was found in 2019. They had a drone and the drone images that have been released are of sufficient quality that Irvine could have been found.
When I searched in 2018, the plan was to do nothing if Irvine was found and return the next year with a team for the recovery. There is no reason to believe they didn't plan the same thing in 2019 as bringing a whole team of archeologist, etc is not feasible unless you know something is there. So, I suspect something was found and they planned to go back but the mountain was closed due to covid -- the north side is still closed to foreign climbers.
Regardless of whether they found Irvine or not, the method used will eventually turn up Irvine. That is, if you keep taking pictures, eventually you will get a low snow or no-snow year and you will find Irvine or be able to say he is not on the mountain. They didn't have low enough snow to say he is not on the mountain, but they did have a low snow year. Low enough to find him in many places.
There has also been a big change from the "climbers" walking around looking at things to a more systematic approach. Unfortunately, they will not release the rest of the drone photos, but we will just use satellite photos. The resolution is likely sufficient to provide some insight.
So, ultimately, the technology is there. Even if the Chinese buried him or pushed him down the mountain, there will still be some evidence, and the number of places this evidence can be gets smaller and smaller.
@@michaeltracy2356 Let's just hope that if he is found, they're smart enough to secure the area and not touch a single thing until someone who knows what they're doing can get up there.
The biggest problem about the Chinese theory is what year they decided to do it... 1965 or shortly after? Maybe just hastily relocated the body via gravity after possible pilfering... 1990's until 2008? An extensive and thorough erasing of evidence, I wouldn't be surprised If they removed him completely in this second era after the prevalence of DNA testing, even if it was the second or third time they had moved him. I really hope he is undisturbed in his original resting place, but China does do China type stuff for China reasons all the time 🤷♂️ Even if that requires threatening silence or death to hundreds of climbers/crew sent to remove a single man from Everest... Just another day in the CCP history books 🤫😉
And one thing China does is release propaganda and misinformation through American sources to make it seem credible. If you watch the 2008 Olympics, it is not Chinese spokespersons reading all the propaganda. It is big name American television personalities pushing it.
@@michaeltracy2356 Absolutely this! The NBC announcer talking about how amazing the wieger athletes were and how proud the Chinese were of them 🤣 After many years of "collaborative coaching effort outreach within the community" 🤦♂️ Even the CCP monitors were confused about how outrageous those statements were 😄
Hmmmm. Interesting. Multiple halucinations yet he/they made it back safely. Unlike M/I.
Maybe his imaginary friend knew to route back
Route is pronounced "root" by native English speakers such as Smythe so I think you should pronounce it as such.
I heard you the first time, and responded back. There is no need to keep repeating this.