Lawyers are there to deal with ambiguity of the law (and this case was about that) and grey areas of the law, including judges. It is emotional sheep that turn to think this is a boxing match of sides. For your brain's sake, this legal case it is used in university as we speak because that is how interesting is it; lawyers dance with the law he's not interested in sides law was written way before Zuma was born; Ngcuka Thombi didn't invent electoral act and its provisions, nor did he wrote the constitution he is there to argue what the law says. Please people use their brains not their emotions its still legal to think.
I doubt if Thembeka will agree to take on any Mbalula ANC cases. Thembeka is used to having captured judges who side with his arguments like in most CR17 court cases where openly biased judges are adjudicators
This piece of argumentation does not take away the fact that he is among the best of the best in Mzansi. Even some of us as debtors find ourselves in a tricky situations.
Dumas legal team led by Dali Mpofu has been dealing with captured judicial for sometimes now no judge want to go that route as they can see ship is sinking ku ANC kaRamaphosa .
5 years from the lapse of the 15 months which was imposed by court as there is nothing in that section bringing exclusions if one's conviction is reduced by President and not by court What the President did is reducing period served but not canceling period of conviction. 47 is about period of sentence and not how period he actually served. Just like a person sentenced to life, we will not say it was canceled by parole and there it was no longer life sentence.
🤣🤣🤣 the problem with president Zuma is his propensity to choose very sharp and brilliant lawyers who are always battering the opponent lawyers. Advocate Senior Counsel Dali Mpofu and Skhakhane should be the Chancellors of all Law schools and at the same time be the chief justice and constitutional court justices they are too sharp. Thembeka is a student of law as can be seen here he nearly asked for Dali Mpofu to rescue him and beg the justices not to ask a student to interpret the section of law. I am sure he will need a break this Thembeka. Akhasa Thembeki u Thembeka vele akazithembi akasathembi ama law lecturers awathi u passed Thembeka. Thembeka now suspect that he failed law degree but they let him get a pass out of pity.
@@oratilephillip618the reality is Dali Mpofu knows the law he reads wider whilst wmc lawyers and ANC lawyers stick to one argument. Every lawyer is terrified to be pitted and be opposed to Dali. The good thing is Thembeka is a black lawyer and emotionally strong if he was a white lawyers he would have started crying because he was in a tight corner
Ngcukaitobi thinks because he is a black lawyer whatever he says should be taken into account even when he has in his argument already realized that whatever he is putting forward is fallacy. Judges aren’t dealing with feelings they deal about the facts within ambits of the law
This is not the case what happened here is that they cornered him with Dali Mpofus correct arguments and he couldn't just throw in the towel. The other option was to agree that yes the remission has resulted in the ultimate sentence being 3months in which case president Zuma qualify. His clients would say Tembeka you are a bad lawyer so he had to jump up and down to try to escape and confuse them
Zapiro's lady justice getting it again 😢 no one knows when Phunyuka Bamphethe escaped ..no one checked the dates .. We need everyone to account ... EFF has helped Zuma open a can of worms ..
Advocate Ngcukaiitobi is well respected lawyer, but he was not well prepared for this case and that could be reasons he lost this case. Jacob Zuma parliament illegibility started the day he was sentence by Constitutional Court. The medical parole he later received didn't change his sentence.
The law has become political and for the rich man and politics control the law the other officials dont go to jail for corruption they live nice wil the poor have to go
"Lawbreakers should not be lawmakers" - valid principle, similarly a financial fraudster should not be an accountant nor should a pedophile be a child minder etc.. - the key element of trust and integrity is compromised !
You are busy Mumbling Advocate surely you don't know what you talking about, you can't two answers, one on the contradiction of the other, then how can you win a Case while contradicting yourself with two opposite answers. IEC must claim back their money they paid brother.
Adv Ngcukayitobi is a brilliant lawyer but here he is struggling to answer a very simple question..when was Mr Zuma's sentence completed after being given a special remission by the President..
Unfortunately, it doesn't matter how super intelligent you are. One thing you can never do is to turn a (blatant) LIE into a truth, especially in the midst of other intelligent persons
If Judge Mobida who was asking Adv Ngcukayitobi this question of completion of sentence by Mr Zuma, said to Adv Ngcukayitobi he is providing two answers to the question and Adv Mpofu said he does not even know what is the answer of Adv Ngcukayitobi and if to you two answers for the same question is an answer good luck to your listening skills...maybe myself, Judge Modiba and Adv Mpofu we have a listening skill problem...for your information Adv Ngcukayitobi has lost this case and Zuma's name is back in the ballot...
@@reubenmpilombangatha7841 yes but then why would the judges even ask that question knowing how the separation of powers work. Adv ncukaytoibi provided a good answer because now it’s expanding the knowledge on law and his right. Firstly Zuma was physically realised from prison yes and he was released early but it does not change the fact that the con court made a ruling. The president can’t now say Zuma has three months. He can pardon him or release him on remission but it does change the fact that Zuma was charged for 15 months. That fact still remains whether you like it or not and I cannot change because Zuma failed to appeal the descion of the con court. It does not change the that he had a 15 month sentecte. Only the concort can change that not Mr Rampaphosa or any sitting president that comes. If Zuma wanted a shorter sentence he should have appealed but he didn’t. Dali Mpofo can’t change the law And what’s nice is that he presented to many case laws that support his argument for adv Ngcukaitoybi. Stick to the basics. Don’t try change things.
@@makhosinisimelane1980 I think he should have took his time and made something out of nothing. He was too quick to answer and even confused himself a bit trying to argue what confuses the judges themselves. That is the skillful art of all lawyers, but I get he was working with a really hard issue
You know ncukaitobi already presented many case laws that had judgments passed on this matter already. There’s already a precedent set, he didn’t drop the ball it’s just you guys are failing to interpate the law well. Why are cases already prescribed to this matter Why is Zuma trying to change the law for himself
@@TheNqobziNqobz my guy you are being emotional here. We don't need to interpret the law here its plain and simple as Dali said. Lets for the judgement and comment later
lol i'm happy that even drops out here calls him an "Advocate(sc)"moreover de whole novelist,someone who born an expert in thinking..Remember to be a lawyer is not all abt to win a case but to represent..
Why are intelligent Advs like this pushing so hard for Zuma.Is it because of money and not looking at the damage the man had caused this country. We are sleeing and waking up in poverty. The man is getting a monthly pay from the Guptas.God please help South Africa.
Zuma on the ballot or not is not going to make any impact and he's not going to be the president of this country again.All political parties are Gangs against ANC but you will see the power of the movement .In two weeks time you will hear Julius started complaining about Zuma.
They’re going to loose just watch. Dali mpofu is trying to create his own laws and his failing. His failing to inteptate the law well, which is costing Zuma. It’s over for Zuma just accept . He has destroyed our country beyond recognition with his MK allies to a point where we are still feeling the sting .
As I understand it , after he was given remission he became eligible for parole , which he made use of. Time has passed and his parole time has been completed and he is now a free man ( and a very healthy one suddenly). The 5 years needs to be calculated from when he completed his parole.
An executive has no legal capacity to impose duties of the judiciary. Just because he was given remission it does not mean he’s sentence was changed. His sentence still remained 15 months according to the con court and once the order has been posed it cannot change unless he appealed at the concort which Mr Zuma failed to do.
@@TheNqobziNqobz Except that He does. That's precisely what the section that gives him those powers implies. He has the powers and authority to reduce a 15 months SENTENCE to a 3 months sentence. And that's precisely what happened here.
@@MrLechesa No , his sentence was not reduced to 3 months. You misunderstand the difference between sentence given and sentence served. For most non-violent crimes , the convicted typically serve half of their sentence in prison and the remainder on parole. Their sentence remains the same.
I really respect this advocate but he could have rejected to represent this case for the ANC he could have let this one pass it is difficult to stand on wrong side but i still respect him though,i have realized that it was even hard for him to pretend.
My favorite advocate on the wrong site. It's not easy to defend something you don't believe in🤞, but as a professional you have to pretend
What would be your answer? It's easy to analyze.
this man is given an opportunity to earn money, that's all.
Lawyers are there to deal with ambiguity of the law (and this case was about that) and grey areas of the law, including judges. It is emotional sheep that turn to think this is a boxing match of sides. For your brain's sake, this legal case it is used in university as we speak because that is how interesting is it; lawyers dance with the law he's not interested in sides law was written way before Zuma was born; Ngcuka Thombi didn't invent electoral act and its provisions, nor did he wrote the constitution he is there to argue what the law says. Please people use their brains not their emotions its still legal to think.
He may be on a path to the Chief Justice Office.
I doubt if Thembeka will agree to take on any Mbalula ANC cases. Thembeka is used to having captured judges who side with his arguments like in most CR17 court cases where openly biased judges are adjudicators
This judge lady is the best I'm gross examination 😂she is top 👌
Cross Exam? She is not examining Ncukaithobi. She is following up on his submissions
She is good if they don't capture her.
👌
I cnt wait to hear, her cross examining Zuma
@@user-ww5qw8jd3bjudges do not cross examine anyone.
Ngiyithandile le part ye argument Zumas legal team led by Dali Mpofu ngiba choma uphaphe lwegwalagwala.
My first time to see a lawyer mumbling like this, what a shame.
like I mean 🤣🤣🤣🤣
And he is one of the finest but was too ambitious to take this case.
When did he mumbled? Not unless I have no idea about the word "mumbled".
🤣i GUESS HE MUMBLED TO VICTORY
Thembeka knew that this cas was lost before it even started
This lawyer can't answer a simple question.
Says who? You?
@@LeeChungTu7230 We saw him drag the question.
This piece of argumentation does not take away the fact that he is among the best of the best in Mzansi. Even some of us as debtors find ourselves in a tricky situations.
The appeal would have changed the sentence.Denial of the right to appeal cannot only apply in a judicial justice application
Dumas legal team led by Dali Mpofu has been dealing with captured judicial for sometimes now no judge want to go that route as they can see ship is sinking ku ANC kaRamaphosa .
💯
What if we have these judges in arms deal trial?
5 years from the lapse of the 15 months which was imposed by court as there is nothing in that section bringing exclusions if one's conviction is reduced by President and not by court What the President did is reducing period served but not canceling period of conviction. 47 is about period of sentence and not how period he actually served. Just like a person sentenced to life, we will not say it was canceled by parole and there it was no longer life sentence.
Thank you
If I was Thembeka I will say my friend will deal with that let me go to the toilets and then i ran away
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Looooooooool u r hell of a person tjoooo looool ...I can't stop laughing at ur comment man loooool
😂😂😂😂
🤣🤣🤣 the problem with president Zuma is his propensity to choose very sharp and brilliant lawyers who are always battering the opponent lawyers. Advocate Senior Counsel Dali Mpofu and Skhakhane should be the Chancellors of all Law schools and at the same time be the chief justice and constitutional court justices they are too sharp. Thembeka is a student of law as can be seen here he nearly asked for Dali Mpofu to rescue him and beg the justices not to ask a student to interpret the section of law. I am sure he will need a break this Thembeka. Akhasa Thembeki u Thembeka vele akazithembi akasathembi ama law lecturers awathi u passed Thembeka. Thembeka now suspect that he failed law degree but they let him get a pass out of pity.
😅😅
Wow.The advocate mumbling. Creating his own answers that are not aligned with the law that he is arguing about. Wow!😂
I have never seen Thembeka found wanting... Mumbling a whole lot of nothingness... Shame
It is deliberate. Bo Zuma bo Malema and Zuma knows what they are doing behind close doors
And Thembeka
@@oratilephillip618please ...you are also now just mumbling, the man was just out of his depth.. this time around..
@@oratilephillip618the reality is Dali Mpofu knows the law he reads wider whilst wmc lawyers and ANC lawyers stick to one argument. Every lawyer is terrified to be pitted and be opposed to Dali. The good thing is Thembeka is a black lawyer and emotionally strong if he was a white lawyers he would have started crying because he was in a tight corner
Zuma's enemies will cry this election
Yoh if Malema was around he would told him straight "you've done an injustice to your the people who hired you, you're a useless lawyer shame".
😂😂😂😂 that would be Malema lozitobi uhlulekile lamama yinja straight and I love her.
Ngcukaitobi thinks because he is a black lawyer whatever he says should be taken into account even when he has in his argument already realized that whatever he is putting forward is fallacy. Judges aren’t dealing with feelings they deal about the facts within ambits of the law
Say it loud ❤❤
This is not the case what happened here is that they cornered him with Dali Mpofus correct arguments and he couldn't just throw in the towel. The other option was to agree that yes the remission has resulted in the ultimate sentence being 3months in which case president Zuma qualify. His clients would say Tembeka you are a bad lawyer so he had to jump up and down to try to escape and confuse them
@@isaacmchegwa3042 I’d say no more. Succinctly put
That's why Zuma is afraid to stand trial.
🙈🙈🙈advocate dribbled by his own submission, what a shame
Send the vark to prison
Ow poor Tembeka 😂😭
Zapiro's lady justice getting it again 😢 no one knows when Phunyuka Bamphethe escaped ..no one checked the dates .. We need everyone to account ... EFF has helped Zuma open a can of worms ..
And this is precisely where the case was lost by IEC😢
This is nothing but dirty tricks, influenced by the ANC. And the danger of these dirty trick is to lead this country into an unnecessary civil war
😂 Never yield! Never surrender.
A lie has a very short life, but truth will always prevail.
Advocate Ngcukaiitobi is well respected lawyer, but he was not well prepared for this case and that could be reasons he lost this case. Jacob Zuma parliament illegibility started the day he was sentence by Constitutional Court. The medical parole he later received didn't change his sentence.
The law has become political and for the rich man and politics control the law the other officials dont go to jail for corruption they live nice wil the poor have to go
"Lawbreakers should not be lawmakers" - valid principle, similarly a financial fraudster should not be an accountant nor should a pedophile be a child minder etc.. - the key element of trust and integrity is compromised !
Simple as that. We cannot afford to have this delinquent Zuma guy as the president of the country after the mess he has caused to our country.
VIVA Mkhonto Msholozi Nxamalala ✊
@@tiisetsomoholo-gh8ybEven that zupta they want him,he was the president and he never do anything for them but state capture.
You are busy Mumbling Advocate surely you don't know what you talking about, you can't two answers, one on the contradiction of the other, then how can you win a Case while contradicting yourself with two opposite answers.
IEC must claim back their money they paid brother.
how much did ramaphosa pays this guy because is always at zumas case
Other judges used to be against Zuma and his defence this lady judge was asking clarity not to pose hatred to the man.
The ANC women judge already made her decision .
Why was it difficult to answer?
I'm disappointed in Ngcukaitobi😢
Thembeka here is a joke😂😂😂😂😂😊😊
Ask him the meaning of the word remission, and he must answer witout stammering.
Adv Ngcukayitobi is a brilliant lawyer but here he is struggling to answer a very simple question..when was Mr Zuma's sentence completed after being given a special remission by the President..
Unfortunately, it doesn't matter how super intelligent you are. One thing you can never do is to turn a (blatant) LIE into a truth, especially in the midst of other intelligent persons
He did answer the question it’s just you’re failing to understand
If Judge Mobida who was asking Adv Ngcukayitobi this question of completion of sentence by Mr Zuma, said to Adv Ngcukayitobi he is providing two answers to the question and Adv Mpofu said he does not even know what is the answer of Adv Ngcukayitobi and if to you two answers for the same question is an answer good luck to your listening skills...maybe myself, Judge Modiba and Adv Mpofu we have a listening skill problem...for your information Adv Ngcukayitobi has lost this case and Zuma's name is back in the ballot...
@@reubenmpilombangatha7841 yes but then why would the judges even ask that question knowing how the separation of powers work. Adv ncukaytoibi provided a good answer because now it’s expanding the knowledge on law and his right. Firstly Zuma was physically realised from prison yes and he was released early but it does not change the fact that the con court made a ruling. The president can’t now say Zuma has three months. He can pardon him or release him on remission but it does change the fact that Zuma was charged for 15 months. That fact still remains whether you like it or not and I cannot change because Zuma failed to appeal the descion of the con court. It does not change the that he had a 15 month sentecte. Only the concort can change that not Mr Rampaphosa or any sitting president that comes.
If Zuma wanted a shorter sentence he should have appealed but he didn’t.
Dali Mpofo can’t change the law
And what’s nice is that he presented to many case laws that support his argument for adv Ngcukaitoybi.
Stick to the basics. Don’t try change things.
Msholozi 10- anc+iec+stellenbosch+WMC+da+cleverblacks Big Zero😂😂😂😂
Clever blacks my foot . They should just call they excellent WMC collaborators or excellent impimpis
Bumbum lickers
Advocate lost this argument..We can't always win. Sometimes we need to appreciate not winning also
Am not a lawyer, but simply question yes or no u duck .tay ne money can make you loose your .....
Ag Shame
Nqukaitobi pls man ...go home pls u are losing the this
As good as your case😂😂😂😂 Dali Mpofu a clever way to mock your opponents
Ngcukaitobi losing this one😅
He's used to representing bought cases😂
Shame answer the question yes or no aaaahhh!!!!!
This guy is running away from facts, the sentence was canceled after 3 months
Based on just this clip. I don’t see how MK loses this case.
Poor Gcukaitobi mmmh
I love both lawyers but this guy really dropped the ball
He did not drop the ball, the was no argument in the first place. He was called upon to do the impossible
@@makhosinisimelane1980 I think he should have took his time and made something out of nothing. He was too quick to answer and even confused himself a bit trying to argue what confuses the judges themselves. That is the skillful art of all lawyers, but I get he was working with a really hard issue
You know ncukaitobi already presented many case laws that had judgments passed on this matter already. There’s already a precedent set, he didn’t drop the ball it’s just you guys are failing to interpate the law well. Why are cases already prescribed to this matter
Why is Zuma trying to change the law for himself
@@TheNqobziNqobz my guy you are being emotional here. We don't need to interpret the law here its plain and simple as Dali said. Lets for the judgement and comment later
@@RastaAfricanGentleman and that’s the problem with Dali is that he can’t inteprate the law. Hence why he wants to creates his own laws.
Here’s an idea, let Zuma go back to jail. Voetsek ANC and voetsek MK(funded by Russia)
Yhoo 😮😂
Chest pain 😅
Voetsek DA
Vote DA 💙
nGCUKA CAUGHT LACKING LOL LOL LFMABWAGAGAGAGAGAGAGA, HE IS WITHOUT ANSWERS
You are without understanding
This was hilarious 😂😂😂😂🎉🎉🎉🎉.
lol i'm happy that even drops out here calls him an "Advocate(sc)"moreover de whole novelist,someone who born an expert in thinking..Remember to be a lawyer is not all abt to win a case but to represent..
Yoh ai 🙆♂️
Roman law must be changed to african law. No ex president must go to jail without a trial.
uBaba kaDuduzane must just give up on his senseless mission to avoid prison. He is a thief...and a thief deserves to spend time in prison
And when s ur ramaphosa Goin to be in jail?
He did this to himself, defending the indefensible
😂😂😂He's always my choice but this question triggered him
Why are intelligent Advs like this pushing so hard for Zuma.Is it because of money and not looking at the damage the man had caused this country. We are sleeing and waking up in poverty. The man is getting a monthly pay from the Guptas.God please help South Africa.
Zuma on the ballot or not is not going to make any impact and he's not going to be the president of this country again.All political parties are Gangs against ANC but you will see the power of the movement .In two weeks time you will hear Julius started complaining about Zuma.
Got his qualifications from Pep store 😂
Because judgement is not on your favour?
Pep Store?? Do you even know what a law degree is...??
So said a fool
Yhooo 😮😮😮😮😮
😂
The female black judge is very sharp, he took Tembeka toe to toe .
Ahh Arrogance got the best of Tembeka😢, guess he sees himself as the next Zondo or Hlophe what a shame!
And what make you think his arrogant on what grounds ?
This is a clear question, and it has to have a clear answer. The lawyer is lost.😂😂😂😂😂. The IEC got it wrong. That's my view. MK can't loss this case.
They’re going to loose just watch. Dali mpofu is trying to create his own laws and his failing. His failing to inteptate the law well, which is costing Zuma. It’s over for Zuma just accept . He has destroyed our country beyond recognition with his MK allies to a point where we are still feeling the sting .
Mr Zuma sentence officially ended when he was given a remission ingqawuza. He is no more prisoner
As I understand it , after he was given remission he became eligible for parole , which he made use of.
Time has passed and his parole time has been completed and he is now a free man ( and a very healthy one suddenly).
The 5 years needs to be calculated from when he completed his parole.
There's No parole with Remission of a Sentence domkop! The Sentence ended After 3months@@ProcaviaCapensis-ts8ub
An executive has no legal capacity to impose duties of the judiciary. Just because he was given remission it does not mean he’s sentence was changed. His sentence still remained 15 months according to the con court and once the order has been posed it cannot change unless he appealed at the concort which Mr Zuma failed to do.
@@TheNqobziNqobz Except that He does. That's precisely what the section that gives him those powers implies. He has the powers and authority to reduce a 15 months SENTENCE to a 3 months sentence. And that's precisely what happened here.
@@MrLechesa No , his sentence was not reduced to 3 months.
You misunderstand the difference between sentence given and sentence served.
For most non-violent crimes , the convicted typically serve half of their sentence in prison and the remainder on parole.
Their sentence remains the same.
Ngathi akuhambanga kahle kuNgcukaitobi😂😂😂😂😂😂viva MK
Thembeka is a good silk however Zuma's Muthi was very strong for him😂😂
😂😂😂😂😂
Zuma he destroy this country
how
How, any evidence of that?
Chest pains 😂😂
Yazi we should not entertain fools who knows nothing
Okusalayo Mk ❤ umhlanganyelwa
3:26 😅😅😅😅😅😅
Hahaha VARK
I really respect this advocate but he could have rejected to represent this case for the ANC he could have let this one pass it is difficult to stand on wrong side but i still respect him though,i have realized that it was even hard for him to pretend.
This is not ANC matter, don't mislead the people . ANC is not even part of this matter .
😂😂😂😂😂
🙈🙈🙈🙈🤦♂️
Ay au this guy 😂
HE HA TO SMUGGLE HIMSELF OUTTA THUR,BFO THE COURT CONCLUDED 😁.WHADDE DMN SHAME
😂😂😂😂