The SIMPLE Withdrawal Strategy You Should Use First in Retirement...
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- čas přidán 9. 06. 2024
- Are you optimizing your retirement withdrawal strategy to deliver the maximum wealth to you and your family? Do you know which account to pull from first in retirement? You can schedule an appointment with one of our Retirement Experts to look at your situation and help you plan for your future. Call us at (920) 544-0576 or go to www.safeguardinvest.com/contact.
Timestamps:
0:00 Which Account to Pull From First?
0:33 Your 3 Tax Buckets in Retirement
1:58 The Cost of Forced Income
3:37 The Traditional Withdrawal Method
4:22 Reversing the Traditional Withdrawal Method
4:56 Additional Options You Have in Withdrawing
5:27 A General Withdrawal Framework
7:42 Your Taxable Account Facilitates Tax Savings
9:37 Roth Conversion Optimization Before 63
10:43 Roth Conversion Optimization After 63
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Taxing retired senior-citizens on their own SS is just pure evil.
Thanks Senator Biden.
Didn't start until the 80s. This is what makes me worried about the Roth. Can it's tax advantages be changed as well, on a politician's whim? Hopefully not.
Anything Congress gives, Congress can take away. Chances are it won't change too much though, kind of like what they've done with SS.
@missireeason8998 that worry kept me from contributing to any Roth accounts for years. I kept thinking to myself, if they change the rules later on I’d at least be getting some tax benefit now by only contributing to tax deferred accounts. And with the increased out of control government spending my worries have only gotten worse, politicians are going to look for money and retirement accounts are a largely untapped resource.
It was only when I reached 45 recently that I decided to hedge my bets and start putting money into a Roth IRA just in case.
But I still carry those same worries but… at this point I think our bigger concerns are whether the American dollar still has any value by the time we retire.
You need to study this better because you won’t pay taxes on Social Security unless you have a lot of other income
The American tax system is so convoluted that it generates this kind of complex strategizing to navigate it successfully. This is some dense material you presented but you did a fine job of explaining it, even if I'm going to have to review it several times to fully understand it. Great job.
It truly is. I can no longer do my taxes myself. Calculating cost basis and determining qualified dividends is too much to handle. It is a great boon for the tax prep industry tho.😂
The only financial CZcamsr I don't watch on x1.25 speed. Thanks for the good info.
Uh - more like 1/2 speed with frequent replays. Talk about densely packed (and useful) info.
Totally agree. Had to replay often to sink in the info. Will play this video and updated versions in the future.
Appreciate your content as it is more informative than most information out there
Eric is sharp as a tack! I'm glad i've discovered his presentations especially since I'm just a few years from retirement.
Really enjoy all of these videos - well done and well articulated!!! Would really be great if Safeguard had a one time fee based plan one could purchase!!!!! I recognize plans change but a baseline plan for us DIY'ers would really add confidence to my plan and execution!!!
You are the master. Thank you.
Great quality stuff dude, 👏
whew... lot of info in that video. Excellent content.
Not sure I would call this a "SIMPLE" strategy. 😆 I need to watch a second time!
Haha, fair point. Maybe simple should be avoided in general when talking about the convoluted tax system
I've knew most of this information, except in regards to IMRAA. Thanks for mentioning that.
Your content is the best stuff out there!
Thank you!
I loved your video, but I recommend that if you could slow down just a little bit, it would help me, at least, catch on. You know what you are talking about, but for me, it takes a few seconds for each point to sink in. I’m going to watch the video again, so I may better understand. Thank you so much for your time and hard work🙏
Change your playback speed in settings
Great Video!
I’m 48, sad to say I made terrible money decisions growing up which I'm presently paying for, been dedicating every waking hours towards my retirement and I'd really love to retire to Portugal with atleast $3million by, the market up and down is not helping at all.
Excellent video explained things perfectly
Great content
While Roth conversions may look attractive when crunching the tax numbers, in my opinion, it's best to recognize that you have no idea what your situation will be in retirement. Specifically, by doing a Roth conversion, you are betting against the odds that you won't have substantial medical expenses later in life. The example I use is my Mom who has dementia and is in a memory care facility, all expenses of which are not covered by insurance or Medicare but are tax-deductible medical expenses on Schedule A. Look it up if you're not convinced. To pay the expenses, she cashed out all her IRA's, but paid ZERO in tax as the withdrawals were offset by medical deductions. Had she taken the advice of the many financial "experts" out there and done a Roth conversion, she would have been left with substantially less. Think about it before doing a Roth conversion.
Good point, this is where the triple tax free HSA comes to the rescue on medical expenses.
Do roth conversions, but leave some in the tax deferred to take advantage of the lower tax brackets later...when having less income. This will also allow for medical tax writeoffs down the road if a health issue occurs
Sure but not everyone will have this situation. So it is a gamble like anything and who knows how things will fall. That said I will get my taxes out of the way now while I have a giod job and good cash flow.
@@marka9073, Yes, I see this as a good rationale for keeping some tax deferred and some Roth. Then you can have it both ways, tax deferred income offset by for example, nursing home, medical deductions, and Roth to still have tax free growth, and to leave to your heirs.
That was my mother's situation, too. Zero federal income tax for years on her traditional IRA withdrawals using Schedule A. When it was proposed to do away with medical deduction with the Tax Cut and Jobs act, I thought this is going to make a big dent in her savings.
Always good Eric, note in a down market we should do more, HSA is also a powerful tool and SS should be left until last, after spending or converting tax differed accounts, for longevity. insurance.
If the market dies great and we are left with a bunch of taxes, it is ultimately a nice problem to have.
Cheers,
Jef
Great video explaining different ways to keep taxes as low as possible. Thanks!
Our pleasure!
I will be fortunate to have a FF state pension in retirement. Could you please make a video dealing with the differences I might face due to have due to having $45,000+ dollars a year of pension income?
I love your videos, but I know I will be in the 85% SS tax bracket, that Roth conversions will be Uber important, but I only get 1 chance at retirement, and I don't want to mess it up!
Thanks Eric, always good. Now add HSA and put off SS for longevity insurance and spous, and allow bigger roll over window, and hedge down turns with more roll over, and reduce income for IRMA, cool, is coming together maybe.... 😅
I listened to this whole video. I didnt understand any of it.
I agree. Speaker has to breathe and take a break. Sounds like he is reading a script to get through the material, rather than slowing down and explaining.
I understood the word tax😂
freakin awesome. i didn't know about irma and I will definitely be converting. i will have about 5 million @55 and am retiring with my elementary age kids early. I need to minimize the taxes big time as i live in a high tax state, so this might be the ticket.
Thought IRMMA threshold was $194k for married couples. Can convert more than example if wanted...correct? The example is trying to keep conversions in a lower tax bracket. When does it make sense to convert in higher brackets?
My entire retirment will be funded by ROTH and long term capital gains money. I won't be paying more than a few hundred to maybe a thousand in income taxes after retiring. The only bummer is where most people will be paying 10% on income I will be paying 15%. But when others are paying in the high 20s I will still only be paying 15%
I think you touched on this briefly in one of your videos, but what would be very helpful would be how to determine, when withdrawing from taxable nonretirement accounts, how much of the withdrawal would be reported income (would show up on your federal tax return). In other words, how to determine the gains, as only the gains would be taxable and therefore would be reported income. This is not so much for determining income tax on the gains but rather for health insurance purposes. This can get very complicated, so I think you could probably make a whole video about it. FYI, the two brokerages I use wouldn't help with this and referred me to a CPA, however, the CPA I talked to (just one so far) didn't seem to have the knowledge to be able to help with this either.
What about a Roth ladder? Should I try to deplete my traditional Ira before tapping into Roth?
How do you put money from taxable to Roth? I thought it has to be earned income. Also, can I put Traditional 401k money into Roth IRA? Or Traditional 401k to Traditional IRA and use that as more tax deferring? Is this video suggesting withdrawing from Traditional account, then paying the taxes using a taxable account?
You did not really touch upon qualiifed vs unqualified dividends which for me is a big problem since I am generating over six figures of them right now but nice video can I hire you as my accountant?
The tax saving chart did not take into account the cost of the $22K needed for the $100K IRA to Roth conversion. The stradegy is still valid in avoiding Medicare and SS surcharges and reducing SS benefits.
If you wanted to do 100K a year in Roth conversions over multiple years, with no income, is it possible to take your standard deduction or does it apply for conversions?
A little late after publishing, but while your math is 100% correct, and you planning is sound, is there an assumption when you are talking about the roth conversions, that income is still coming in that is covering for annual expenses?
Using a simple example of a $1 million IRA, $500k Taxable, and $500 Roth (just example) and starting a retirement at 60 with no extra income, would taking up to $100k in income from the IRA and Taxable taxes and supplying any other income requirements from the taxable account would keep you under the 22% tax bracket. And doing that for the next 10+ years, would drain the IRA account so RMDs would not need to be painful.
That is where I would like to an example of your tax rate graph on how it impacts the total tax amount.
Good video. This has basically been my plan going forward to be executed in about 6-7yrs. Only thing I don’t know is how much my taxable account would have by then. The return after discounting dividend taxes is a bit misleading. It’s only $70k out of ~$600k….not zero. I do agree though. All those videos on getting massive div is ignoring all the taxes.
Roth 401k contributions moot the tax consequences of dividends.
And this is why I swapped to 75% roth-in-plan conversion in my 401k and only 25% of contributions being pre-tax.
Helps keep it simple for down the line.
I believe you said RMD starts at 72, of course now it starts at age 73.. And if you have qualified dividends from stock or preferred stocks , the tax is only 15% for most...
IF you want to leave a legacy to your heirs.. then leaving alone your after tax stock portfolio (or investment rental property for that matter) until you die gives them a step up in basis.. or a tax free gain on the inheritance ... no difference than a roth.. except the taxes on dividends , if there are any while u r alive...
Yes, the step up basis could make a huge difference in your heirs tax liability for capital gain when they sell the stock, especially if its stock that you've held on to for a long time and it has appreciated. I definitely plan on leaving my portfolio to my heirs. Meanwhile the dividends form a tax advantaged income stream for my spouse and me. We still plan on doing some Roth conversions so that the heirs won't be left with a big tax bill from our traditional IRAs
Also if you have no ordinary income you wouldn't be taxed at 15% tax on capital gains or on dividends. Assuming no ordinary income beyond the standard deduction you can take $89,000 tax free 0% tax. Then $27,500 for standard deduction. So if you pull from taxable you'll be 0% tax on $117,000 a year or roughly $9,700 a month tax free. You just have to take the money out every one year and one day and then pay yourself monthly from a savings account. So like you stated it makes way more sense to live off taxable (especially at 0% tax rate) and keep that roth growing as long as possible.
Yup.
Sometimes other things get in the way. Like SS benefits or you want to make some income so you can continue to put $6000 in a Roth.
I'm a little late but you *definitely* want to use tax deferred income to fill your standard deduction! That way it's no taxes when you put the money in your IRA/401K, it's tax free while it grows, and it's tax free when you withdraw it-> triple taxed advantaged. Tax free from start to finish. Let's see a Roth do that! lol
@@rayzerot That's a great plan. I have rental income that fills up the standard, but if I didn't I'de definitely do that.
You do still have to pay taxes, just not federal taxes. So you'll likely have a 5-10% tax rate (depending on where you live) for state and county tax.
@@Lolatyou332 True. Good to be in a tax free state to maximize this.
Would have liked the HSA included.
Doesn't a Roth conversion reset the 5-year clock on tax free Roth withdrawals?
The 5 year clock is for each conversion. So if I convert $50k in 2023, I can withdraw that $50k in 2028. Then if I convert $50k in 2024, I can withdraw that $50 in 2029, etc. Google Roth conversion ladder for more info.
Only on the converted money
Where would you put a HSA.? We put this ahead of our Roth is that correct?
HSA is double tax advantaged, so logically yes. Only negative is that an HSA requires a high deductible insurance plan and then you can only use HSA for qualified medical expenses.
My eyes glazed over, I slapped myself, two minutes later my eyes glazed over again
You’re talking only about taxes when you are forced to take out of tax deferred accounts (e.g., trad IRA), ironically mentioning that the tax burden would be higher, because you would have too much money (and thus, be taxed more on your mandatory distributions)!
The amount that is taxed going in to the Roth IRA, for instance, is taxed at the earning rate when you are in your best earning years. The question is, when is it better to be taxed, before or after? With traditional IRAs, you reduce your tax burden while you are working at your job. That difference (including the time value of that extra early taxation) is the reason you’ll have too much money and be taxed on a mandatory distribution. But if you are retired, you won’t have to deal with your job’s income and will have a nice problem if you get enough back to have to pay taxes (for the first time) on this money. Just my opinion, thanks.
Around 10:37 you say that paying taxes from the taxable account allows you to do a bigger Roth conversion (true) but you then add this will "do a better job at minimizing RMDs down the road". Not sure why that is true, in both cases you have removed $150K from the traditional IRA (in the first case $28K is "wasted" on taxes but it's still gone!) , so that should have the same impact on future RMDs. Having more in the Roth is better for a number of reasons, but I don't see this particular one.
It's because you're moving a larger chunk from pre-tax to the Roth. $150k vs $122k. The point is the effective tax rate on the conversion. He's staying out of the 24% bracket in the example.
Bernard, good catch. You are right, reducing the tIRA by $150,000 in both scenarios means that future RMDs are the same in both scenarios. More money in the Roth is still better than not, but RMDs will remain the same.
Good catch. You are correct, in the "younger than 63" example, there is a not a change in the minimization of RMDs, just a change in the amount that ends up in the Roth. Where they add on comment came from on the "this will do a better job at minimizing RMDs down the road" was that I've seen some retirees leave room for the capital gains to be realized within the '22% bracket'. The mistake made here is forgetting that capital gains and ordinary income is taxed differently. I just didn't clarify this well enough.
In the next example with IRMAA, there would be a difference. Thanks for the comment!
Great! Simple no.
You need to slow down. You lost me guy. Where do I get these capital gains taxed at lower rates? Love to have this but where are they in a retirement portfolio? Be specific, give real examples
PD,
Long Term Capital Gains - From investments held for longer than 1 yr
Short Term Capital Gains - From investments held for less than 1 yr
Long term capital gains will have these preferred tax rates. The reason I didn't just into specific examples is because the number of variables added into the explanation increase the complexity in understanding the core message. I didn't see the need for the concept I was conveying.
From your taxable account. I think this is what PD is asking.
Ok, let’s say i have a million dollars. Now I have 10 holdings in the portfolio. 5 of them had a horrible returns year, 3 broke even amd 2 killed it. Do I sell equal portions of each to fund my lifestyle or to do Roth conversions?
For Roth Conversions it doesn't matter what you sell as long as you rebuy what your sold within in the Roth IRA from a P/L perspective. From a tax perspective it would make more sense to sell the stocks that had a horrible return as they have a lower tax-basis and you could pull out more and rebuy from the Roth IRA.
If you have required expenses that you need to pay from the IRA, it's ultimately up to you. There isn't anything that is a best case scenario as you don't know the future returns of the stocks you sell. General heuristics would say to sell the stocks that went up, because they *could* have a higher chance to go down, but you have no idea for certain, just as you have no idea whether the poor performing stocks will go up.
Explain this please. Over the years you put 500k into an IRA and it grew to 1M. Success right? But now it’s time to pay taxes on the withdrawals as ordinary income. (And as I recall, you were not taxed on the income you used to contribute to your IRA.) Anyway, you take a 5% distribution every year, pay a little bit in taxes (assuming at that point you have some good deductions or use the straight deduction).....and your portfolio keeps growing to absorb the 5% WD. What’s the bit deal?
You have RMDs. By your 80s you'll have to take out more than 5% of your portfolio, this is why it's better to take out as much as possible in the lower brackets the younger you are because it would lower your RMD totals in the future and you are effectively will have less money in retirement as well as potentially absorb health care related premiums in later years due to your income being to high.
If you pull out more than you need in a tax advantaged way, convert it to the Roth IRA, you will have lower future RMDs and all your money will be in a Roth IRA that incurs no additional tax or have RMDs.
how can retirees do Roth conversions?
It's easy and it's the ideal time to do it, particularly if you retire early and delay Social Security. Take advantage of lower tax brackets while you can. Be careful once you hit 63 and may trigger IRMAA surcharges.
How would you factor in the benefit of the step-up a spouse receives upon the death of the first spouse in the taxable account given a large embedded capital gain which would be a full or half depending on which state you live in? Thank you, Eric!
It's a great add on question that would require a few more variables for sure. To discuss an extreme, the math could certainly adjust if we are considering a taxable account with a large embedded gain and one spouse had a significantly shorter life expectancy.
The characteristics of the investment (fees, forced income, performance expectations) would matter greatly as well. Might be a good video for the future as I think about it.
@@SafeguardWealthManagement Thank you, Eric; I would look forward to that video should you decide to do one.🎯
I briefly researched typical duration of widowhood. There are some interesting research papers. Surprisingly, even when husband and wife have similar life expectancies, duration of widowhood on average is about 10 years. YMMV. I think David Folts suggestion of considering effect of stepup in basis is relevant for more couples than one would guess at first blush. Looking forward to that video. Thanks for all the excellent info on the safeguard wealth management youtube channel.
Don't forget about standard deduction, which in many situations with cover RMD
Standard deduction may change in the future. I believe it is expected to half by 2025 if it isn't increased.
@@Lolatyou332 everything may change
this is complicated. I need to review
Capital gains are only taxed if realized, right? Only if you sell at a profit, right?
if you have to ask that here, you have already failed, right?
Yes. For dividends you have to pay for capital gains even if you reinvest them.
Great video, but it does not address one crucial issue: if one is on the losing side of a lawsuit, retirement accounts are generally judgment-proof, while regular investment accounts are not.
One can somewhat reduce that danger with various forms of insurance, but even that isn’t 100% protection.
For this reason, I think it’s a good idea to preserve retirement accounts as long as possible.
In the video, the entire purpose was Roth Conversions. He actually fully recommended that we get rid of the taxable account but only after the 401(k) is fully converted to the Roth IRA.
You transfer the full amount of the 401k being converted to the Roth IRA to fill up the sub-22% tax bracket, then pull money from the taxable (adjust the cost basis as available) to pay off the taxes and any living expenses.
@@Lolatyou332 You explain it better than the video.
You guys need to be able to take on more clients
I agree. We are working on it
@@SafeguardWealthManagement please let me know when you get it worked out.
Panthers fans don't throw real rats, they throw plastic ones. John Vanbeisbrouck coined the phrase "Rat Trick" after Scott Mellanby killed a rat in the locker room and then scored 2 goals in the game.
Selling losers from taxable can pay for Roth conversions and be tax loss harvesting at same time.
I'm assuming in retirement, hopefully most things would be in the positive at that point, unless you recently bought equities and there was a slight drop.
I’m sure there is a lot of useful information in this video but it is presented too quickly. Please slow down just a bit. There are complex tax strategies here that can be difficult to digest at this pace. Thank you though for the information.
You can slow down the video or pause it and replay it.
This is good, but really complicated and really fast. Drinking from a fire hose. Perhaps chunk these ideas into shorter and slower segments.
I think this video is for people who already know most of this and he is presenting the ideas with that in mind.
@Lolatyou332 You make great comments and seem to be the only one continuing to help others understand. Thanks!
Great info. Had to watch a few times. You are talking way too fast.
Excellent information, however, my brain doesn't comprehend that fast. Slllllllllllllllow down, please.
I had an easier time understanding quantum mechanics in college. That's due to our ridiculously complex tax law, not your presentation.
🤣😂🤣
Why does every video think everyone has a Million dollars? I would love to find a video where you do it for the guy that maybe has half that. As soon as I hear a Million dollars I’m out
why? because if you only have half a million nothing will work for you. These videos are for people who have won the game of life.
If you don't have a million dollars in an IRA you probably wouldn't have to worry about RMDs or your tax bracket, as you'll likely be under the 22% tax bracket throughout retirment if married.
@@DrSchor I won the game of life without the million dollars. Have never struggled with money. It's not how much you have it's how you use it.
You should immediately delete these comments that try to piggy back your video with advertising for crypto and the like. Not a good look!
Agreed. Would love your help. Anytime you see a scammy comment, click the 3 dots on the comment and hit report please. We do it every time we log into to check CZcams but unfortunately we can't watch for scammers all day (they have more time on their hands it seems 🙃 ) .
These videos give me headaches.
Fast talking guy too confusing
Click settings and reduce the playback speed
He needs to explain less at a time
Govt gangsters sure make things complicated . Funds a total waste of human capital...tax accountants
They make it complicated because tons of different legislators want to improve things for different people in different ways, so it becomes confusing overall with all the different things.
In regards to just progressive tax brackets, it isn't too complicated just have to know a few things and then you can strategize based on those few things you know.