What Makes a Good 3D Platformer?
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- čas přidán 19. 10. 2018
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• / nickolaiboulton
3D Platformers are now better than ever! But what separates the good from the greats? Let's critique games like the Nintendo Switch's Super Mario Odyssey, A Hat In Time, Spyro, Crash Bandicoot, Banjo Kazooie, and even Spider-Man to analyze what makes a good 3D Platformer!
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• / nickolaiboulton
Twitter! - @NickolaiBoulton
• / nickolaiboulton
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Special thanks to Chadunda for the assembly edits: / chadundashow
Correction: I mixed up the order of the motion graphics for "Boredom and Anxiety", That's my bad. The correct graph is detailed in my cited sources. Be sure to get enough sleep, kids.
🎵 Tunes🎵
Theme song by Ace Waters - / acewatersthe3rd
Super Mario Odyssey - New Donk City Daytime (Metro Kingdom)
Main track (for looping) [One of your tracks]
Karamel Kel - Heavenly Dream - 17 (Easier)
Super Mario Odyssey - Steam Gardens
Karamel Kel - Heavenly Dream - 19 (Sunny Day)
Jump Up, Super Star! - Super Mario Odyssey
★ Sources ★
Jason Chen: Flow in Games www.jenovachen.com/flowingame... - Hry
Minor correction: I mixed up the order of the motion graphics for "Boredom" and "Anxiety", That's my bad. The correct graph is detailed in my cited sources which can be found in the description. Be sure to get enough sleep, kids.
I was about to comment bout that, haha another great review man, keep it coming!! Any plan on covering 3d platformer that focus on combat? Like jak 2, ratchet, and maybe KH1? (yes KH1 does feel like a 3d platformer with combat to me, before thwy shift their focus entirely on combat and make the level linear..)
Dude you're super relatable. When you have as much control over your character its way more engaging and emjoyable
Minor? :D
The best platformers are not great because there platformers what makes luigis mansion so great the experience of it all or sly mario kingdom hearts spyro crash sponge bob battle for bikini bottom
Vs games like legend of korra samurai jack naruto storm the game isnt about adventure but gemics and you see this everywhere assasins creeds biggest problem is there isnt a big enough rate of progression which leaves all there games feeling samey glad they fixed it but now its to grindy and unappealing fluidity is key hiding a super boss would be more accepted for games like those then killing story and art
call of dutys campaigns or modern warfare compared to far cry or fallout
Dark Souls and final fantasy compared to bandai trash and even code vein and scarlet nexus or pokemon legend of heroes series or these strategy games that dont realize there are competitive games on mobile of that which are far better and even the players of these games agree who arnt blinded by bias nostagia
walmart
This video cured my bubonic plague.
Hello there. Did you know Computer Virus Simulator is a 3d platformer where you play as a computer virus?
Bubonic plague? Try leeches and blood letting for a quick fix!
@@yoo667 But it was cured already.
Seriously? Does it works for Covid-19 too?
@@yoo667 One of the treatments of the bubonic plague was using toxic spider bites in order to induce a fever. Rarely, this did actually work, and is the earliest example of a medically induced fever.
I like the part when you said "Next video won´t take a year to make"
:'(
bruh
@@lilyliao9521 Bread
@@Drakeout bred
Ha
I appreciate the distinction between 2D and 3D platformer game design, it helps contextualize WHY that extra dimension of movement matters so much
I also appreciate the background footage showing SA2 as an example of good movement, because it feels like the Sonic stages have not gotten the respect they deserve lately for that flow and movement. The Homing Attack is, in my opinion, a brilliant way to take the 2D “jump on an enemy’s head as a quick platform” idea and translate it to 3D
This is the reason I love A Hat in Time. Hat Kids move set is so small but the developers made Hat Kid fun to move around.
really, i hated the moveset and plus the not good missions and level design quit that game
@@B0ssguywhat
walmart
"next video won't take a year to make"
we miss u
I hate to break it to you dude, but a bot stole your comment.
He aint comin back :(
I am once cursed with the fact that I found an amazing youtuber and their last video came out years ago
"You aren't playing a platformer to fight things"
...Clearly a n64 era fan, as the PS2/Gamecube era had a significant amount of "Action Platformers" which did just that.
Yeah, but the focus was less on the "platforming" in these, right? I don't know, I don't think I played that many of these.
@@Mike14264 Depends. A lot of them had a big focus on the platforming as well. Early Ratchet&Clank, for instance
Psychonauts, Jak & Daxter, for example, being top notch 3D platformers that (although keeping it simplistic) emphasized combat. And I think it's important to note that these later games, - much like Sonic's homing attack - made an effort to make the combat mechanics flow along with the rest of the movement, contrasting with the more static punches in Mario 64 or Banjo.
@@dreampillet And it's a damn good combination, too - Basic, but consistent/flowing combat goes a long way to adding depth to platformers that don't need an emphasis on Puzzles like older platformers do. It's a shame that Action Platformer is basically the most forgotten platformer type, demonstrated perfectly in this very video.
You should really try out Cloudbuilt. It's a criminally underrated platformer that pushes parkouring to its limits and has a very high skill ceiling and great level design that gives the player options for multiple ways of traversal. It's also hard as nails especially the later levels.
I think game feel is another essential element of a 3D platformer. Even the most common movement actions should feel weighty and satisfying. There isn’t a right way to have the player move around but the movement should feel satisfying to do. Celeste has a super satisfying sound effect and animation are satisfying to do even after a thousand dashes. Movement shouldn’t feel limp and lifeless. It should feel weighty and purposeful. This is great game feel and in my opinion it one of the most important parts for platformers in general. Good video.
9:25 “Anxiety” and “Boredom” should be switched. Boredom comes from having high skill (which means moving further to the right) and low difficulty (not going very high). I checked “Flow in Gaming” to see if the mistake came from there but it’s fine, so the mistake is in the video only.
Dude, you would LOVE Rocket: Robot on Wheels. It's an N64 collectathon that IMO is well crafted enough to stand among games like Banjo Kazooie. It has some of the most satisfying movement I've experienced in a 3D platformer, due to how it connects to the game's realistic physics engine and the challenges it presents.
Agreed. Played it in an emulator and it's amazing. Wish whoever owns rights to it ported it to modern systems (even if graphics would stay the same).
Level design is more important than movement. It’s the levels that allow that movement to be used in the most fun ways.
I think for a decent platformer you need both, trash movement or level design is a big deal
I did not expect my mod for a hat in time, in this awesome video.
7:22 Have you tried the Death Wish/Ex versions of A Hat in Time's bosses? They're part of the Seal the Deal DLC. Now those... oh boy, those boss fights put your skills to the test. Especially if you try to get the Bonus objectives.
So much to take in, and I love what you bring to the table. Wish I had your wit and could put it into words like in this video.
You actually have to beat the sandbird in Super Mario Sunshine because they made the downright baffling decision to have the final level unlock once you clear all the 'chase shadow Mario' levels instead of basing it off shine amounts. Yeah, that's right, literally every delphino plaza shine, blue coin, secret shine, and 100 coin shine is actually pointless, as are all the final shines in each level (since shadow mario is never the last shine to get).
KingTwelveSixteen Yeah was wondering if anybody noticed that .
*"What makes me a good 3D platformer?"*
*"IF I WERE A BAD 3D PLATFORMER, I WOULDN'T BE SITTIN' HERE, DISCUSSING IT NOW WOULD I"*
Demoknighttf2
YEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSS DO ITTTTTTTT
The difference between collectathons and 3D platformers is collectathons are focused on exploration/discovery over 3D platformer's more challenge focus; Core Aesthetics.
I think collectathons are sub genre
I'm so pleasantly surprised with the quality of this video and understanding of the subject.
Can't wait to see more content.
It's been 3 years...
Now this is a fine one to dig into. Your videos may be rare Nick, but they are a pure bliss to work.
thank you so much for this video. Currently I am stucking at making a video game when it comes to do some research and getting better in level/game design and this helped so much and I am feeling inspired. So much better then the dozens of udemy videos that I had looked into in such a short time. You can not imagine how good this was! Thanks
Movement and control are so important for me but I never noticed it until this video. Thank u ❤️
I just realized the thing I love most in the games I play is the mobility. For DMC I love Trickster because it gives me that instant maneuverability I love even though DMC is far from a platformer. Lately I've been playing Warframe and there's few things stopping you from just blitzing a mission. My favorite mission type is Spy missions because it's just a bunch of different puzzles that change slightly per planet. I also love just running into whatever it is as fast as possible trying to see how can use all of my options to get through at top speed.
Wuh! New video! Glad the quality is still as great as always. :'3
-Good Level Design
-Solid Gameplay and Controls
-Fun Worlds and Characters
-Memorable Character Designs.
-Replayability
Those are the main ingredients to make a awesome 3D Platformer in my book
Super Mario 64, Spyro 2, Donkey Kong 64, Banjo Kazooie, Crash Bandicoot, Kirby Crystal Shards 64, and Jak and Daxter are some of my favorites.
@@truthseek3017 kirby 64 isn't a 3d platformer
Astounding video detailing the inner workings of some of the great 3D platformers of all time. Great content - you have a subscriber!
This video should have at least a million views
There's so much to a 3D platformer that one can fall in love with! 🥰 I grew up with 3D platformers so seeing people dissect the genre gives me insight on how it works and makes me understand the genre a lot better. 👍🏻 Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this subject and games. 🎮❤️
Thanks, this was a great video to watch while developing my game :)
When I think of flow I think of the feather cape in Super Mario World
Pumped to see the Sunset Overdrive representation! Just picked up the pc port and I’m adoring it. :D
I've been waiting for this video!
Another good CZcamsr who gets recommended to me but doesn’t upload anymore.
Really well done video my dude
Nicely done, Nick!
I don’t know if you have videos like this, but I would love to see videos on your favorite 3D platformers (collectathons, whatever) and analyze what makes them individually unique and why they standout in their specific design.
I want some hard ass 3d platform games. Mario titles, crash, sly, hat in time...fun but I'd like a game with some real challenge to it.
Super Sami Roll is hard af
Ive been coming back to this video every single year aince 2019. I wanted to be a game designer, animator, comic artist, and now a game director. I'm right back where I started, and it feels so damn good.
I needed this video now more than ever now that Balan Wonderworld is out. That game needs some serious dissecting to get to the root of its monumental problem with its gameplay. 🤔
Wow there! Hello, buddy. Really miss ya.
Have you ever done a video about Game Modes?
Like what makes a good game mode in a video game, what makes it feel arbitrary, etc.?
I'm working on a unique style of game and kind of stuck thinking of possible game modes for it,
and I think a video that analyzes game modes and what makes them work could help people come with ideas
for different game modes that could apply to the games that they're making
Next video? Damn it's been 5 whole years. We miss you!
This is a nice instance of a youtube suggestion. I watched the skullgirls video when I started playing that game a while back, forgot about this channel and got treated to this video.
Papa has blessed us with a vid
In my game design world view, you'd be a perfect specimen of the 'fidget' category.
Awesome explanation for who wants to develop new adventure games.
Nickolai Boulton: How about adding a list ranking the 3D platformers? Also: how about some recommendations about great games that incorporate some of the features of good 3D platformers? Thanks!
I Liked too much the video!Really,i'll go take these tips for my future games,in a certain way,are rules that if taken in balance makes a great game,Thank you for your video!
Obrigado por fazer este vídeo,com certeza vou levar de aprendizado para desenvolver os meus futuros projetos e ampliar os atuais,entendo que tem que haver um balanço entre as questões,Gostei muito do vídeo.
That was a GREAT video. Thank you!
10:54 actually in super mario sunshine you do have to do them in order, you do have to do the sandbird at some point to progress, and blue coins do absolutely nothing to just beating the game
3:05 Mario Sunshine came out in 2002 not 2001
Lovely. Well said.
Well you were right about the next video not taking a year, it's taking much longer ":D
Great video man! Crash Bandicoot's an all-time favourite for me.
The only reason I still play SMB1 at friends place is that we only try to speed run, which means basically never letting go of going to the right. If I play it normal casually we never die and there's no fun.
"3D platformer" - is moving through level made out of platforms.
"collectothon" - is combo of words "collect" and "marathon" as your goal is to collect everything.
And it's just such a coincidence that most colletotohons are 3D platformers, but the other way around is not.
5:08 - "Did you ever use punch move ..?" - then you never played in the best 3D platformers: Rayman 2 and 3
Wellcome Back!
Platformers and collectathons definitely go hand in hand but I don't think they should be confused as interchangeable terms. In my opinion, Banjo Kazooie succeeds as a collectathon because there are collectables everywhere, and they're all important to unlocking new areas and progressing the game. Super Mario Odyssey succeeds as a platformer because throwing cappy and moving around feels so amazing, but most of the collectables are entirely optional making only the moons important.
Kinda off-topic, but I wonder if this is what Egoraptor was getting at in his LoZ Sequelitis when he said that OoT had this weird split between exploration and combat. As you said, a key part of flow in 3D platformers is making enemies a part of the movement. In OoT, enemies either always made movement more frustrating or weren't a problem at all.
This also may be part of his complaint about how there's "so much waiting" in that game. In a good 3D platformer, you're always moving around to do something. In OoT, you end up spending a good bit of time sitting still. Maybe the issue isn't exactly _waiting_ so much as having to _sit still_ while waiting. It makes for a boring moment in the game (low difficulty matched with high skill).
High quality video.
Needs more views.
Great video-essay
It's a video about the movement in 3D platformers. - Let's shit on 3D Sonic games just because.
Yeah sadly, you can't talk about Sonic games without saying something like: say what you want about the 3D Sonic games or something like that. A lot of the times when Sonic is referenced by a non-Sonic channel they ALWAYS bring up in SOME way that 3D Sonic isn't good. (Good video for the rest though!)
@@JordanGD I agree with you. The video was good and all until that was mentioned. I'm just tired of hearing the same shit about Sonic games, whenever the franchise gets mentioned for any reason.
@@fat-hat Yeah most videos aren't even about the quality of 3D Sonic (which is great quality btw) but they ALWAYS have to bring it up for no reason. I'm also tired of hearing it every time.
Everything Rayman 2 and 3 did?
That.
I want is the Switch version of A Hat in Time. X| When is that being released?!
I love it!
Spyro 4. Oh wait! We're still waiting for that while they make Cash Grabicoot
I agree with nearly all of what you said. Good control is very obvious though, and games of every genre need them to be great. A game can be fantastic in every other aspect, but if the controls are terrible, who's going to want to play through it? I'd also include fun puzzles, a fun and memorable hub area, and blocked off areas you have to come back to later after learning a certain new ability. You may not *have* to have all of that to make a great platformer, but it certainly helps! One of the reasons why I feel Banjo-Kazooie was a little bit better then Banjo-Tooie is because the hub was much more fun and interesting(the other reason is because I thought the worlds were a little better).
Thank you! For this video and the games you have shown. I love 3D platformers, I always did since I was a kid. The gameplay is just fun! Unlike most games now a days they are just boring.
This video is sooooo underrated
The subscriber & view count just don't match up to the video quality. Keep doing you, man; hope you're finding success wherever and whenever you need it
9:10 I think the labels are swapped here..."Boredom" and "Anxiety". Nice video tho.
AHIT my favourite game of all time right next to Odyssey.
Nice to know
Yeah i love crash warped because every move can be combined with another
2:20 That is cursed right there.
Great video
underrated AF channel
0:05 what game is this?
Sunset overdrive
Ah, being stuck in this meat sack. I want to flip like mario and Hat Girl. The thing about Arena shooters movement is the reason even playing Quake live 1v1 with a friend on a few maps is better than any shooter I've played in the last 10-years. Melee movement may be an addiction, but of all the addictions to have in this world, I'll take that one.
Where have u been man
You got my sub at the grab ass button for SM64
5:00 He never fought the bullies.
man this is great
Bruh... I just found this channel, I like it, and is dead... Fuck!
Wish he made videos again
who heard the voice crack that sounded like a 15 yr here 0:16
logo game first
Damn no Pac-Man World analysis, even though those games have some of the best controls movements and platforming
you need more Videos bro
what is this game at 9:19
Sunset Overdrive. It's on XBOX One and Windows PC, probably on One X/S as well but I'm not too familiar with XBOX stuff.
9:04 Is it just me or does how this graph read seems like Boredom and Anxiety are backward?
Idk who you are but I will find you and I will subscribe
But how does Mario Odyssey's capture ability help with the flow of your movement?
You are given more options and can cancel out of the capture system whenever you want. Every new capture has a different form of movement, and even then, you essentially teleport to the creature as long as the hat can reach the target, be it anything from a frog, a traffic cone, or an electrical wire.
@@NickolaiBoulton Besides that though... I can't really think of much. Most of it works really well in the city world and the desert's electrical wire are basically fast warps to places.
For example, the water world. That has cheep cheep enemies that you can use but that's not really helping Mario's movements anymore, you're playing as the cheep cheep at that point. And swimming fast with a cheep cheep doesn't require much skill, if it'd be more so "Oh, I can swim decently well with Mario but if I'll use the cheep cheep and play well, I can be faster for this section of the level." maybe with a time limit on the capture ability, I could see how that might help with the flow... but it's just boring the way it is in this game. To me anyways.
12 and a half years and under 12,000 subscribers. You really deserve more man. It sucks that you put an amazing amount of effort into your videos and yet people would rather watch "FORTNITE EPIC VICTORY ROYALE LOL NOT CLICKBAIT UwU!!!!?!!!" Thanks for the videos FeralxPanda.
I'm working on a 3D platformer, and this was incredibly helpful to watch. So thanks!
thanks_for_the_video
good video
I'm sure you've already played it, but just in case have you heard of the 2D Platformer Dustforce? Movement in that game takes some getting used to, but once you really sink your teeth into it the level of control is pretty nuts. Between all of the different movement options like jumps, hops, dashes, fastfalls, wallruns, it's incredibly satisfying finding new routes through all the levels.
My favorite part of Dustforce is the design philosophy behind it. Essentially, the game was created such that the most optimal level of play looks clean and stylish.
I use the punching move in Mario 64 all the time.
Dumb
9:06 i dont think a skillful play will be anxious playing a low dificult level hahahaha