And on the Eighth Day - Let's Play Honkai: Star Rail 2.2 Part 2
Vložit
- čas přidán 14. 05. 2024
- Today we're serving up Part 2 of our Honkai Star Rail 2.2 Playthrough!
Welcome to TheWayCafe! A place where we strive to serve you the Craziest, Comfiest and Hypest content that you have ever seen! LET'S GET HYPED!
Let all that you do be done in love. - 1 Corinthians 16:14
Join the family on Discord: / discord
If you love what we do here and you want to support us Click HERE / thewaycafe
If you want to catch us Live on Twitch we stream here: / thewaycafe
Check us out on Twitter: / therealwaycafe
Game: Honkai: Star Rail
Honkai: Star Rail is an upcoming free-to-play 3D tactical role-playing game developed and published by HoYoverse. It is the fourth installment in the Honkai series, using brand new characters along with alternate versions of existing characters from Honkai Impact 3rd.
Keywords / Tags ( Or Related Things / Topics! )
Let's Play Honkai: Star Rail , Honkai: Star Rail , Honkai: Star Rail Gameplay , Honkai: Star Rail Playthrough , Let's Play Honkai: Star Rail Part 1 , Honkai: Star Rail Review , Honkai: Star Rail Reaction , Honkai: Star Rail Trailer Reaction , Honkai: Star Rail Easter Eggs , Honkai Star Rail 2.2 , Honkai Star Rail 2.2 Trailer , Honkai Star Rail 2.2 Trailer Reaction , Robin , Robin Gameplay , Robin Trailer , Robin Trailer Reaction , Boothill, Boothill Gameplay , Boothill Trailer , Boothill Trailer Reaction , Version 2.2 Trailer - "Then Wake to Weep" | Honkai: Star Rail , Star Rail LIVE 2024 | Honkai: Star Rail Reaction , Robin Gameplay , Robin Trailer , Robin Trailer Reaction , Honkai Star Rail 2.2 Story Trailer
#HonkaiStarRail #HoYoverse #Gaming - Hry
If you finished the boss with the train you would've gotten the achievement "And then it's Monday.." which would've been very fitting.
4:54:17 Himeko’s VA KILLED that voice line during the fight
Her delivery is FIRE!
I don't even know where to begin when it comes to how much we LOVED this part. 😆 EVERYTHING FROM THE WRITING, THE MUSIC, THE BOSS FIGHT AND ALL THE LITTLE EASTER EGGS WAS PERFECT! 2.2 was INCREDIBLE and easily one of Star Rail's best patches yet. So what did y'all think about that ending?
The story was amazing. As someone who has played HI3rd since it was first available in English in 2017, the story went from like 9/10 to 10/10. Even more than the obvious easter eggs like himeko's dreams and the name drop, there were other smaller, less noticeable easter eggs that really elevated it for me.
My main gripe is that welt didnt take a more active role in discussing how to dispel the dream. Its wierd cos he literally went through the same thing b4 in one of the HI3rd main arcs (he references this when talking to acheron)
But overall story amazing. As expected from Shaoji, the main writer for penacony. He was originally a HI3rd writer and gave us the elysian realm which was amazing as well. I just hope everyone survives this time
@@garethcf1016 2.2 spoilers
Well...Misha and Gallagher didn't already but technically one was long dead and the other didn't even exist
@@motemo8413 Im not sure what ur getting at. Like, i know what u mean, but i didn't mention either of them.
@@garethcf1016 you said "hope everyone survives this time" and i brought up 2 characters who already didn't survive but ye as i have said one was long gone and other didn't exist so it counts and doesn't count at the same time
@@motemo8413 ah right mb, we already had 2 ppl "die". Hopefully thats all.
4:58:06 "Im Anfang war die Tat" (German for "In the beginning was the deed") is a Johann Wolfgang Goethe reference, more precisely a sentence said by 'Faust' in 'Faust's Study' (a part of the 1829 tragedy called 'Faust'). The character Faust tries to find a more "active" sounding wording for "Im Anfang war das Wort" (In the beginning was the word) from John 1: 1-3 because Faust believes "words" are just way too passive in comparison to any kind of action or deed.
You know what comes after Sunday? The Train.
I'll see myself out.
I'm kinda sad you didn't get Dan Heng's line during the boss fight as it's a good one. "You have a noble soul, Don't be shackled by the past!"
I got that but in exchange i didnt get himekos line of "Witness the will of the weak"
Yes it is a Himiko situation. Same name and appearance, but not the same. However it has been theorized, based on her trailer and convo with Welt, that her world was basically the same as HI3, but all her friends died, and humanity lost.
so it's like GGZ world
@@soulpatrickraymundo possibly, I'm not as familiar with that one as HI3
@@TheBrotatoPatch u can watch the GGZ kiana's world 12-13; see you in the next world. pure depresso xD
@soulpatrickraymundo ofc it is, not surprised with the devs at this point. Will do tho!
the scene with the dead bird make a lot more sense if you think that Harmonious choir represent Ark and remember what is Gopherwood
「The shooting star of the Hunt only descend on the longest night and with them comes the dawn」 To galaxy ranger! To Tiernan!
Here are a few things I still want to say before I can finally rein in my enthusiasm a little...
22:39 - That's Frebass she's talking about. You can read about their 30 days in the relic description of Acheron's set pieces. Also I can't really stress enough how much this whole Penacony quest meant / means to me. I have a history of being the guy everyone tells "to not think too much" because I can easily lose myself in the abyss that is my head. Most of the time I just think about this and that because I just really love thinking because it shows me that I'm still curious and that shows me I'm still alive... but at other times I tend to really tread the path of Nihility as HSR would put it. It's no overstatement for me to say that this arc really connected with me on a spiritual level. I love how Acheron looked after Tiernan while he also looked after her in a way. Both represent the Nihility in a way, but both also represent life. She confirms that the color red was symbolic for "existing" and being pro-life this entire time. This puts her red text in perspective. It also might explain why she talked about slashes from two swords in the last video. They forged Origin and End into Life which then became Naught, so they either refer to the first pair or the fact that Life and Naught are kind of two sides of the same coin. Tiernan and Acheron talked about totally meaningless things that we still do, explored meaning despite Nihility together while also representing it which is really interesting to me because 1) this might be the story of Acheron, but also IX in the end and 2) through that this might be how we become the Nihility MC at some point - we gain the same insight she has gained which means Embrace Nihility and accept it to be able to embrace Life as a result. That's contradictory, but IX itself is contradictory - it's an existing Aeon that believes in non-existence, maybe it even wants us to free it from itself ... which would make me happy and sad at the same time... I really like that blob, tbh... probably because I used to be like him through various darker phases in my life.
2:58:15 This probably refers to us not remembering our name when March and Dan Heng first found us.
4:37:15 It's kind of interesting how this hand scene could be seen as being similar to the end with Sunday in P3, isn't it? Penacony is really such a brain teaser I can't get enough of.
I really liked reading your thoughts, have you played the new event? While reading I keep thinking about a certain part at the end, you'll probably like it
SPOILER
It surprised me how the Watchmaker really wanted to put out the full story, even with a bad ending where everyone is satisfied in the dream, but Mimosa just hated it for being too deep, "How many of them can perceive the underlying messages and metaphors under the fun facade? And how many of them go to the cinemas for those things". It may not be a lot of people, but they still do these stories regardless
@@BlascoClips I haven't done it yet, but I think I now know what my plans for the day are. What you describe makes it sound kind of meta and that's probably really cool, I look forward to it.
Honkai: Star Rail 2.2 Movie Coming VERY Soon On Our Second Channel!
Check it out here: www.youtube.com/@TheWayCafeProductions
Join us in Discord: discord.gg/zaPAEz2
2:57:24 LMAO I love how Dnaiel covers his own chest xDDD
Fun reminder there is a faction that does want to show ix life is beautiful and worth living lol basically to cheer it up hahah
3/3 All of this might seem obvious to some which would make my whole essay kind of pointless, but I just like how beautifully they incorporated all these complex aspects (and there are so many references, interpretations and what not that I didn’t mention, but that could be worth your time) into a free to play gacha game which I hope a lot of people will appreciate as well. Also, Acheron told me that some tasks have to be done, even if they might be pointless, so blame Acheron for having to read this.
On a side note because this thought came to me while writing this… If Hoyo criticizes people within this mission who are too full of themselves and believe too stubbornly in their own way, might that also be a subtle hint at how (through the inclusion of the Ayn Rand name drop in all of this) the USA might have left their path towards the American Dream(scape) and their good ending? I don’t know, so that’s for you to decide… because who am I at the end of the day? For most of you I’ll probably forever just stay a name on a screen. Also, speaking of days - after all this talk about being trapped in eternal Sundays, we should probably be more welcoming to Mondays and new beginnings in our lives from now on. Well, that’s all I got for now, thanks for coming to my Flame of Death talk
Have you ever thought about creating a video explaining your theory? I feel like I didn't fully grasp the meaning of the 2.2 story because my understanding of philosophy is limited. I know many people are eager for someone to make an in-depth video about the 2.2 story.
@@tlforge3446 I did, actually. I see that people are interested in general, but I think just one video explaining myself a little bit more wouldn't suffice. You would probably need a series of videos and also a little bit of back and forth to make sure everyone is still following. In short, you would need to recreate the process I went through to reach my conclusions and then possibly go on tangents because other people might not have the same background as I do (or even among each other).
That's why I liked the idea of creating videos, but also disliked it at the same time. It's way easier to 'discuss it' together than to drop everyone a theory.
That said, I would be willing to answer specific questions you still have - via Discord, twitter DMs or any other form of chat, so that we won't have to spam the comment section.
Remember to check your log book on the Astral Express re: Misha
3:36:04 It's always like that actually. 😂
4:01:22 Daniel, in which kind of business are you?!
2/3 What is it that Hoyo wants to tell us if there’s no clear winner in all of this? That’s exemplified in the three questions Sunday had to face and which he then proceeds to ask us. I don’t want to bore you even more with a text that could be 10 times longer if I wanted to if I dissected every case under the lenses of every ethical concept I know. All of these cases in the story lead to a bad ending, always making you think that you’ve chosen wrong. It also empowers Sunday to always make it seem like his way is the only way - that at least is what he has in common with Ayn Rand, the fact that he’s dismissive of other people’s opinions because he’s so sure of his.
Hoyo obviously doesn’t really want to pick a side in all of this and give you a clear answer because it’s also way more interesting if the viewers have to do the thinking themselves, but there are two things that they make rather clear in Penacony’s 2.2 story and that’s why I love it so much which is why I wrote the essay you are reading right now. I don’t have the means to show Hoyo my appreciation with money right now, but the least I can do is acknowledge their good writing and why it’s so dear to my heart. When I saw that Sunday’s last transformation is called “Embryo of Philosophy” it not only made me think, but it made me appreciate all parts that involved philosophy in their games even more - because they put the use of philosophy itself into a perspective.
What is an embryo, exactly? An embryo is two things - 1) It’s one of the earliest stages of a life form you can think of and 2) it’s the result of someone giving birth. The one giving birth is philosophy in this case because philosophy lead to all the conflicting ideas that surround all of this and that ultimately lead to him being so certain that his path is the only path, but the fact that he reached this conclusion after all the philosophical debates he had with himself also shows me that he’s still at the start of his philosophical journey because if I have learned one thing in my whole life as a person who’s passionate about philosophy, then it’s that you are much more likely to become more uncertain of the right path if you aren’t choosing to ignore the rationality of others than you are to become more certain.
I also like how God created the world in seven days and that’s what his boss fight references from a more religious point of view (which I’m unqualified to go too deep into), but even though God finished on the seventh day and Sunday finished thinking at some point (because he stopped questioning himself and his actions), after all kind of Sundays comes a Monday and “The Sun Also Rises” (9th part) “And on the Eighth Day” (last part) we are able to correct our ways and do it all again.
It’s even kind of ironic that someone named Gopher Wood (Genesis 6:14 / Noah’s ark reference) kind of enabled this reset in a weird way. Similar to how humans had to fail, get flooded to get on the same page and start over again, Sunday had to fail after being influenced by Gopher Wood (whose picture you can see if you find his collectible card btw) to ultimately turn it all around on the Eighth day. Additionally, Gopher Wood and Sam (Sam’s theme is called Nevermore and the flavor text in the Astral Express phonograph confirms this) both have symbolism that connects them with a raven which connects them to Edgar Allen Poe’s poem The Raven which you can then interpret as “The Raven knowing the one truth” - Poe’s Raven knew that Leonore, the dead love interest of the protagonist, will never come back while the guy goes insane over it. Gopher Wood knew the truth behind the dreamscape while others lived in this madness and Firefly/Sam was also the first one to truly see beyond the madness.
So, about your question regarding when best to use Harmony Trailblazer's Ult. Given what their Ult does, it is usually best to use it after the enemies are broken or just about to be broken so that you don't waste a turn of their Super Break. Another thing about Super Break (hopefully I haven't said this before) the amount of damage from the Super Break scales, similar to regular Break except instead of going off of max toughness it scales off of how much toughness damage the attack does so basically: Basic attack does the least amount of Toughness damage so they also do the least Super Break (not sure if enhanced basic changes that or not... will have to pay attention next time I fight), damaging skills deal more and Ults deal the most, so keep that in mind.
So this is not THE Raiden Mei, but a Raiden Mei, but I think you guys kinda got that already. Basically, due to the vastness of the universe and due to different aspects and fate stuff yadda yadda, different versions of people can exist and even meet.
@@rozegunn It is not a multiverse but a single universe with imaginary energy barriers around star systems that were only broken following the influence of Aeons. It is established in HI3 that no one can leave the edge of the solar system, or at least they couldn’t until Welt but the story hasn’t gotten there.
@@rozegunn In Luocha’s companion mission, Welt says this, “…there are infinite worlds in this universe that can be similar yet different from each other in various ways. The same is true of the people on those worlds. That's why it's possible for us to run into individuals on multiple worlds who share an appearance, but not a personality,” referring to worlds and universe, not universe and multiverse. Also the Imaginary Tree timeline idea came from Otto’s speculations and not actual in game fact. What Star rail says in its data bank on the imaginary tree which is a compilation of the entire universe’s understanding and likely more valuable is, “The untamed imaginary energy surges endlessly through space-time vasculature, and forms at its tips "star clusters" that humans can understand - in other words, countless worlds. The worlds are separated from each other just as leaves are separated by air, between which are unknown imaginary domains that are nigh impossible to traverse.” Again it is because of Akivili’s Silver Rail and other such things that traversal is possible now. It is likely with this understanding that what Otto likely did is create a new world system somewhere in the universe where Kallen lived.
@@rozegunn In Luocha’s companion mission, Welt says this, “…there are infinite worlds in this universe that can be similar yet different from each other in various ways. The same is true of the people on those worlds. That's why it's possible for us to run into individuals on multiple worlds who share an appearance, but not a personality,” referring to worlds and universe, not universe and multiverse. Also the Imaginary Tree timeline idea came from Otto’s speculations and not actual in game fact.
What Star rail says in its data bank on the imaginary tree which is a compilation of the entire universe’s understanding and likely more valuable is, “The untamed imaginary energy surges endlessly through space-time vasculature, and forms at its tips "star clusters" that humans can understand - in other words, countless worlds. The worlds are separated from each other just as leaves are separated by air, between which are unknown imaginary domains that are nigh impossible to traverse.” Again it is because of Akivili’s Silver Rail and other such things that traversal is possible now. It is likely with this understanding that what Otto likely did is create a new world system somewhere in the universe where Kallen lived.
@freakingexcited Wow... I hate that. Then again I also hated the ending to Honkai's first part, so I can't expect anything in their media to make any sense.
@5:07:23 it was Elio
Im glad Gallagher turned out to be a good guy, i really like him, built him day 1
SAME
I am a bit embarrassed to admit that only after watching this did I remember that the ultimates are different depending on the gender of your trailblazer which is a really awesome inclusion in my opinion
Wait, 7:17, ''collective consciousness'' this theme was mentioned in genshin a lot (sumero dream, the oceanids, and now remuria through the symphony), the parallel with the penacony and teyvat is interesting l.
And Welt mentioned it in 2.1 when speaking about some of the events of HI3. It's a recurring theme in HoYo's stories, as well as lived-in dreams.
5:05:50 No, that's Thoma! 😂
I think some people assume the nameless coulda been a teriri face that Acheron met honkai 3rd mei only really hung out with two shorties bronya and teriri
4:19:50 Her third death already happened I think, in the last bit of the quest here. She needs to experience "death" in order to wake up from Ena's dream.
Thats the second, the first was when she was stabed by Sleepy, the second was to wake from the dream of Ena, and the third one would be the true death, thats the one they had to prevent because even if she was awoke she is still inside the dream just not in the dream of Ena so she could still be consumed
Check out the Honkai Impact 3rd animated shorts and chronicles as well. The entire second part of the story honestly just traces the exact same path as one of HI3rd's story arcs , which is really cool.
Btw the 2 osts playing while acheron is asking her questions and talking to tiernan are HI3rd osts, "North Wind" and "Why"
Damnit, these videos drop at 3:30am in France, I can't watch this right away 😆 Seems you loved 2.2 as much as we did though! Hell yeah!
Honestly, I've never loved Star Rail as much as I did during the final battle 😍 I was wondering if Hoyo could ever top what they accomplished with Jarilo's final battle and the Wildfire climax. It's up to debate but to me, they absolutely did it with Penacony. It's SOOO over-the-top anime, it feels like a "power of love / friendship / hope" moment but in the best way! Robin's song, our MC dancing on her lyrics, the Astral Express bonking the boss to oblivion... PEAK.
Now, I guess the epilogue will be about the IPC's shenanigans and Boothill's personal revenge. Can't wait for what's next!
On a final note... 😏
"Attention passengers! The Express is about to make the bump. I repeat, the Express is about to make the BUMP" 🚝
- Pom-Pom, I guess
That quote made me laugh so hard man! 😆
Penacony was easily a 10/10! Can’t wait to see them somehow top this in the future.
truly peakacony, well i wish the boss was hiting harder, it was so easy with that shared shield but i guess they wanted us to focus on story twists more than to suffer fighting the boss, it had very cool mechanics and truly emotional at the end
2:10 What do you mean by team slots? Both games started with 5 available slots, Star Rail is up to 10 now, and Genshin is up to 15 now?
Also, Sunday is not evil by any stretch of the imagination.
2:34:50 The DoT puppet is terrible without any cleansers… The story one was fine, but MoC is a whole different story. The DoT hurts badly, sometimes eating away 40% HP from my characters. Personally, the one that puts you to sleep is the easiest one for me. I don’t have Fu Xuan, so the damage from the DoTs is very noticeable.
5:20:01 No, they don’t. I’ve already completed the statue the moment 2.2 dropped since I had 2700 clockie credits left from maxing out the statue last patch. 2.3 will only be the epilogue of Penacony, probably introducing Jade and explaining more about the future of Penacony. It should be a short 45min epilogue like the Luofu. I’m more excited for the official express announcement of the next planet in 2.3
Next patch is probably quiet long, we still have Firefly side of story, Jade and Sunday, speaking of sunday I'm betting on him joining the stellaron hunter.
Because other already talk about the philosophy stuff I want to talk about how Penacony story is also a coming of Age story with the theme of escapist vs reality with trailblazer coming to conclusion of facing it for better tomorrow.
And yeah Misha and Galagher is dead, so we got two dead playable character now.
Yes🎉🎉🎉🎉
are we actually meet real acheron in penacony? or we only meet acheron because we inside the dream, because acheron guiding us from dream dimension on one IX manisfestation that said between dream and reality. but for certain what i learned so far is all the nameless is such a great person like tiernan that immediatly recognize how hard the path that acheron walk is and want to ask her real name.
21:55 i just realize, is this razalina??? Because the old man is tiernan right? 4:26:30
If you look at the new event LC and also the description of the Pioneer relic set pieces, you will find more information about the girl (Frebass) who Acheron was talking about and also how Razalina looked like.
@@Flame_of_Death i see, thanks for the info :3
ack missed dan Heng's train line
for genshin. i guess the M for Raiden Ei is belong to Raiden Makoto then, probably Makoto is the part of Raiden who can cook. 😆
1/3 Let me preface this by saying sorry for the wall of text I’m about to drop (and also the fact that I called Joshua Jonathan for some reason under the last video). Often, I resist the urge to drop essays under your video, but this time it’s different. I’m a huge philosophy enthusiast, lore nerd and a lifelong gamer. Hoyo’s games always involve philosophy in one way or another, HSR is in fact philosophical right from the start, but Penacony really dares to put philosophy in the spotlight, even at the risk of boring their audience because I suppose your typical dialogue skipper will just not appreciate this kind of content. I always think that’s a pity, but to each their own, I guess - in the spirit of The Harmony.
I started to write this comment under your first video for the 2.2 mission, but then decided to delay it for the part with the finale of the mission. I can talk about everything at once and it’s just more fitting this way. You titled your last video “The Only Path to Tomorrow” which is the sixth part of that Trailblaze mission and also a reference to Ayn Rand’s article of the same name. It’s roughly two pages long (or the size of one monitor) - you can find it easily via Google (I think I can’t post the direct link here in the comments) to get a better picture of what I’m about to refer to. If you search for “The Only Path to Tomorrow” you should directly find it beside the HSR mission in the search results, but if you don’t want to read that, the next paragraph is like a TLDR of her general philosophy:
Ayn Rand is a famous author and philosopher. This is what Wikipedia has to say about her in the quick summary: “Alice O'Connor (born Alisa Zinovyevna Rosenbaum;[c] February 2 [O.S. January 20], 1905 - March 6, 1982), better known by her pen name Ayn Rand (/aɪn/ INE), was a Russian-born American author and philosopher. She is known for her fiction and for developing a philosophical system she named Objectivism. Born and educated in Russia, she moved to the United States in 1926. […] Rand advocated reason and rejected faith and religion. She supported rational and ethical egoism as opposed to altruism. In politics, she condemned the initiation of force as immoral and supported laissez-faire capitalism, which she defined as the system based on recognizing individual rights, including private property rights. Although she opposed libertarianism, which she viewed as anarchism, Rand is often associated with the modern libertarian movement in the United States. In art, she promoted romantic realism. She was sharply critical of most philosophers and philosophical traditions known to her, with a few exceptions.”
Those exceptions were basically Aristotle and Thomas Aquinas, her self-proclaimed biggest enemy was Immanuel Kant. A lot of things are interesting here in my opinion. Historically (and stereotypically) Russia and the USA are kind of at odds, always representing opposites. If you read the TLDR of her life you might notice that she basically aligns with what the USA is widely known for today and that’s interesting because Sweet Dream Penacony (besides having parallels to Fontaine in terms of actual story elements like watery abyss, prison under the surface, old/defeated civilization and so on) has a lot in common with the image a lot of people have of the USA nowadays - on the surface Penacony looks like the USA in the 1920s or at least reminds you of Las Vegas in modern times… philosophically it runs deeper than that. Also, she lived 21 years in Russia and then moved to the USA. It’s almost like she left the ideology she supposedly (maybe she was a hardcore capitalist all her life, I don’t know for sure) had growing up behind and changed it drastically - that’s similar to what happened to Sunday in my opinion.
The title of her article and the submission is The Only Path to Tomorrow. This implies that this is the one right way to do things. In that sense, she also aligns with Sunday because he is also convinced he found the only way, but besides from that they differ quite a lot. Rand wouldn’t build a cage to turn active people into passive people and she rejects any kind of collectivism and it doesn’t really get any more collective than what Sunday is going for with Ena’s dream. So, if the mission title refers to the part where Sunday and Robin walk through Penacony, does this mean the mission says that Robin’s way is the only way then? That can’t be true either because Rand’s idea of the only way would lead to a highly capitalistic world with all its pros and cons (like the potential for the strong exploiting the weak, which is what Sunday wants to keep in check). His whole idea of self-worth is probably directly related to this line from Rand from the article I mentioned: “Degrees of human ability vary, but the basic principle remains the same: the degree of a man's independence and initiative determines his talent as a worker and his worth as a man.” On top of that, Rand’s paradise can lead to all this mindless consumerism and endless pleasure seeking that feels so icky to us and Robin because it became a form of escapism instead of making you truly happy. All these concepts of the right way start at the same point and overlap at some point, but none of them is blatantly superior to the other which makes the mission title “The Only Path to Tomorrow” very interesting. Rand believed that she’s right and that’s why she named her article that, but what is Hoyo’s intention?
I think that "The Only Path to Tomorrow" exemplifies how everyone seems to be convinced of their own beliefs as the "one true way to be," not just Sunday. Frankly, what irritates me a little is that while the flaws with Sunday's outlook are evident (to the point that people think he's evil when he's just misguided), the flaws with the Astral Express' are glossed over. I think the flaws are most evident in Himeko's line about how humans can only live with dignity when there is nothing and no one above them. Sunday's entire point was that, for the vast majority of the population, there will always be people above them. Via that outlook, the only people who get to live with dignity in the present status quo are the powerful, and the weak suffer for that privilege. Even if we take it as a given that the status quo is better than Sunday's vision, Himeko's philosophy is also naive and self-centered (which I've recently noticed the Trailblaze is a heavily self-centered Path, tempered only by the tendency to help others). Firefly comments that it's not for anyone else to determine if a person is weak, but when Astral Express gets involved with people's issues, does that not mean they have judged those they are helping as weak and in need? I can only hope this will be addressed later, as it is the second time (the Luofu being the first) that the protagonists' morals are flawed and yet left unquestioned.
I, too, enjoy that HoYo puts real philosophical ideas and dilemmas into their games. What's been interesting to me is seeing Genshin slow burn the same kind of philosophical arguments. I wonder how the audience will receive them by the time we conclude Genshin's arc; will the seeping in of the philosophical arguments over time make their tying together at the end more impactful and comprehensible for the average player, or will the amount of time it took to get there fade people's memory and weaken that finale? Time will tell.
@@effortlessfury In regards to Genshin, I agree, only time will tell.
In regards to your other points: The Trailblaze is indeed somewhat naive and self-centered, but their whole concept is also not as fleshed out as others. Their mantra is: Explore, understand, establish, and connect. It's not guaranteed that they will always do this flawlessly and I'd wager that even they consider some of their actions to be mistakes in hindsight. Their approach is rather vague and their main goal is to at least try to strive for a better future without really knowing what that's supposed to entail. You could say they "judge" others when they decide to help, but they often aren't completely sure if they should do it in the first place, that's also why they always discuss and vote, plus they don't intend to meddle in completely internal affairs. Herta Space Station was self-defence, on the Luofu they offered their help and the general ultimately accepted it. The Trailblaze represents us as the players for the most part, they are the party that shows up somewhere and then has to react to complex situations on the spot. That's also where "the only right thing" comes in. The Penacony quest makes them and us think about this stuff, then you may agree or disagree with certain outcomes, that's the whole point I think. Sometimes them acting in a specific way may be debatable, but that's part of exploring and understanding - to learn as they go, to blaze a trail into a hopefully good direction. I think you're maybe a little bit too harsh on Himeko for her statement about "no one above them" because Sunday believes there's always someone above you (and that's why he wanted to become it) and Himeko strives for a world where that's maybe not the case anymore. Himeko's perfect world might even be aeonless, with peace, opportunities, equality and happiness for all. I would agree that this would be indeed a perfect world, but - similar to you - I also think that's mostly wishful thinking, but wishful thinking is also a part of the Trailblaze because you kind of try to make the impossible happen. You say that you hope they will address this later, I think that probably will not happen because we (as the Trailblazers in this case) are addressing this right now, so from Hoyo's perspective our brains were successfully teased 😄
@@Flame_of_Death the reason why I would like it addressed more directly is that, for those not thinking as deeply as you or I, the take away might not have a great impact on people’s worldview. That said, there’s only so much to be done about that anyway.
I understand how it looks like I’m being a bit harsh on Himeko, and I don’t hold it that strongly against her, but I think what irritates me most is that it ignores his points rather than addresses them. Also, it doesn’t seem like I’m being as harsh on Sunday because there’s no need to discuss him as we all agree about how and why he is naive. I agree with striving for a better world where her philosophy can ring true, but not only is that a near impossibility, the suffering that exists in the meantime isn’t something everyone is willing to turn a blind eye to. Every location we go to has people suffering and others trying to end that suffering. Unfortunately, we don’t come along to help alleviate suffering but to stop radical change being made in efforts to fix that suffering. Kind of a lose-lose.
Good point, bringing up their decision making process. The voting methodology exemplifies the best of their philosophy, but falls apart once they’re in tough situations and in “head empty, trailblaze” mode; they no longer have the luxury of time to vote. Without a firmer guiding philosophy, stressful situations lead to sloppy decisions. A friend of my remarked that a train that punches holes through spacetime to create a rail system is a rather apt metaphor for the Trailblaze’s tendency to charge headfirst regardless of the consequences (and this is well laid out in the answers given to Acheron at the end of the quest).
I’ve yet to play P5R (though I’m somewhat aware of how R’s content relates strongly to Penacony, trying to avoid more spoilers), but one thing I appreciate about the moral dilemma P5 shares with Star Rail is that it’s addressed directly and is developed as a slow burn throughout the game. The protagonists acknowledge that they are asserting their will over another, that this is hypocritical, but that they are doing it anyway for the sake of what they believe to be just. They accept the responsibility and risks of their actions. The Trailblaze doesn’t really do that; they seem to take pride in their outlook despite its flaws and hypocrisies, and they don’t seem to look back very much.
I don’t mind not aligning with the protagonists on everything but I do mind if there is no intent to highlight the flaws. If I’m meant to agree and don’t, I’m not going to enjoy myself.
@@effortlessfury *sigh* My last response to you got deleted by YT for some reason. I posted it, saw it and wanted to add something later and it was gone...so here we go again, I guess. I think I still can get it all together.
Overall, I agree with you. "Without a firmer guiding philosophy, stressful situations lead to sloppy decisions." I think that's why Kafka told us: "When you have a chance to make a choice, make one that you know you won't regret." The devs want us to have a moment of self-reflection, even if they don't always actually force it upon us. In the Sunday-Himeko situation I think you can't really make the discussion more nuanced at this point in the story because it would just ruin the emotional intensity of the moment. Both would need to agree to step back and calmly analzye the whole thing which would then ultimately lead to them acknowledging that they just operate on different premises. Sunday wants to find a solution within a flawed world, Himeko tries to navigate us towards an (impossible) better world. My original, now deleted, comment had my following suggestions in direct speech... maybe YT flagged it because they thought I attack you or something, so let me try to explain it more indirectly this time. The only thing I could have seen them do in terms of actual additional dialogue is something like this: Himeko says nobody should be above anyone. Sunday could point out that she is naive if she believed that's ever possible and she could respond that she prefers being naive to whatever he is planning to do. This way we would notice that there's still a discussion to be had and that both just stated their opinion on the matter which are still up for debate. Another thing (and that's what came to my mind later which I wanted to add to the deleted comment) is that Gallagher somewhat acknowledges that the end result is probably imperfect because after he says goodbye his line is "...to the imperfect tomorrow". That very subtly hints at him saying what we are about to do is still not free of criticism.
I think we both strive for more nuanced discussions in general, but I've also seen a few reactions by now and many of them include "What does this all mean?!" at least at some point, so I think there's also quite the risk of losing people altogether if they did that too often, so in that sense you are shooting for the stars a bit. Nevertheless, I think our wish has a chance to become reality when we meet more Erudition pathstriders. I expect these battles to be battles of the wits where the enemy doesn't back down intellectually + we also probably get the Erudition MC at some point and I expect the story to force us to ascend in our way of thinking somehow to be able to consider ourselves to be erudite.
@@Flame_of_Death The thing is, I think it's very clear that the world the Trailblazers are fighting for is imperfect, because otherwise what would Sunday feel the need to fix? There's a solid case against Sunday with no real flaws (aside from the flaws that will naturally exist as a consequence of there being no perfect solution), it's just interesting to me that some aspects of the argument the way they chose to go about it WERE flawed. But yeah, it's interesting but does unfortunately leave me feeling a little unfulfilled. That's just my personal experience though; I acknowledge that the story they crafted was pretty good overall, even if it wasn't my favorite.