Didn't expect a comparison of the classes. Well done, that is exactly what I was looking for! I'm flying an EN-A wing and I have no plans to progress until I'm confident in every situation. I bought an old EN-C glider for cheap though, just for Groundhandling. It is incredible how much different the wing feels in every aspect: - unsheathed lines are so prone to tangle! - the risers are very slim and you need to take good care not to twist them when sorting lines - The lines are much longer so starting the glider is much more dynamic and you need more breaks to tame it - The glider also tends to roll a lot more - No wires/sticks to support the nose profile (much simple to pack, but I would not want to hit a thermal with it)
I really enjoyed watching your video as I was contemplating buying a new glider (Mantra M6) after a Sigma 9 and an Artik 4. What I love in your description is your insistance eon pleasure, joy, the ultimate goal of flying (with friends) wheras we tend to look for the highest performance, forgetting maybe that if we are not competitors, the joy of flying should not be tarnished by the preoccupation of struggling with air trubulences and our glider. I remember a pilot flying with a Mantra M6, feeling the need to land because it was becoming bumpy, whereas with my Hook 3, I felt the air was really clean and harmonious... Food for thought...
You are completly right in this video, the only important word at the end of the day is "fun"!! You can fly a A all your life and enjoy each second you pass in the air, but if you prefer follow the hype and take a D wing when you have only 60 hours of fly you will definitly pass your next time in the air with some squiz sphincters...
2021 so my research is paying off doing some home work on wings , thank you for a lovely video well explained and easy to understand , very much appreciated thank you. 👍
For several years now I have been trying to educate paraMOTOR pilots, that most of the manufacturers try to hit these design class goals or buckets. As you know, most paramotor wing reviews, use descriptors like "rad" and "totally awesome" which don't do much for pinning down a wing's flight characteristics, yet depending on the content producer...the hype still relates to sales. Here, in one short 11 minute video, you've done what I've tried to do with hundreds of hours of conversation with folks considering their "next wing".
Watching in 2022...still pertinent! Note: Number of hours mentioned, should be considered "per year" (50h/year for a XC, 100h/year for a Performance etc).
Every CZcams video except this one always responds to the question of which equipment to purchase in the same way "There are no best ones to buy and you won't know until you've been flying for a while" Just give me a rough ballpark mate 😂
Thanks so much for the review. I wish I had seen a video like this 4 years ago, but it is never late, and it enforces what I have learned about the different classes of wings.
Wow! This video is a must see for all! I definitely got the assurance of where I should be from this video (Progression)! Thank you Greg... your explanations are impecable and so clear to understand.
Nice to hear a familiar accent :-). I didn't realize you were in the UK now. I enjoyed the comparisons and find your videos informative and well presented. Thank you Greg.
Another awesome video, thanks for this and I'm waiting for more. I've heard one opinion (that seems strange to me) about choosing wing for coastal soaring and would love to hear what do you think of it: "For coastal soaring (that is: laminar breezes, almost no turbulence) it is wiser to choose class or two higher paraglider, than the one you normally fly in thermal conditions - because speed reserve and better glide ratio have bigger impact on safe coastal soaring than passive safety of the wing".
I have a friend who flys allot and he gave me an old D class wing to practice my ground handling before I get into the paragliding school next spring ... I guess he wanted to joke with me ... but the joke is on him ... I can get it in the air and hold it there :D :D :D I don't have the balls to fly with it ... but it sure is fun learning all this stuff from youtube. I guess I'll start with a progression wing once I start school and then move up to the XC wing, because I mainly want to fly for fun and not for some extreme results. See you in the skies bois!
Superb video and explanations as always! Can you tell something about the right weightrange. I'm thinking about the Masala 2, but my weight including gear etc. is about 97kg. What would be the right size: S (
On the beginner wings can you still thermal and get a fair distance or are they mostly wings to fly at lower altitudes ? Sorry for the naiive question. Totally new to this and intend to train once the season is ready. This video is very informative BTW. Thanks.
thank you for that great and helpful video. How big is the difference between Iota and Sigma 9? I want to change my Epsilon 7 and I am not sure if the step to Sigma 9 is too big after around 250 flights in the alps (thermal, xc, soaring) and a SIV?! Thanks in advance :)
Thanks guys, great video and explanations. I'm thinking of getting a new wing. I fly a rush2, on the coast and starting to chase xcountry (in New Zealand), and would look at the XC range. I had a discussion about the fact that in small sizes (xs,s) certain wings have a way better aspect ratios than the same wing in bigger size, Is there a brand that is more specialised in small sizes? I heard that nova was, with the Mentor, what is your view on this? cheers
Have a look at shop.flybubble.co.uk/wings ... it's not true that small sizes have better aspect ratio, as far as I know every manufacturer scales the wings exactly so the aspect ratio is constant across all sizes. the wing loading changes, and here Nova and Advance have the best (highest) wing loadings available on the smaller classes, and thus speed for XC into wind glides will be a bit higher. Check out the Mentor4 and Iota.
Greg Hamerton Something I keep looking for is information on XS and S wings! Thanks! I have been on every manufactures site out there researching but not much is there for light weights or they are still in testing and then are overpriced on the training end when released. My problem is I manage to hold my weight up to 56.6 kg (after cancer) and it's my heavy weight! I get down to 54.4 in a days time so ballasting my self for my old Buzz (65kg) is a PITA at times! Thanks for your site as I do come in often!
rolloverriderpgr thanks, we've found the skywalk Tonic (shop.flybubble.co.uk/skywalk-tonic-m-16-red-second-hand-55024) does very well for light pilots, might be worth considering too
As a person new to paragliding but not new to flying I was shocked by the differences is what was considered an acceptable wing based on a pilot's flying hours. With someone being classified as knowledgeable at 50 hours or ready for an advanced wing at 200 hours. As a career helicopter pilot with, in the neighborhood of 17,000 flight hours in helicopters. In my industry, we would still consider someone with 1,000 hours to be a newbie. How costly is it going to be for a newbie paraglider pilot if you are going to want to change wings as you rocket up in hours from full novice to 250 hour pilot?
I am an old fart, so struggling with turbulence isn't good for my heart! Younger people, they want lots of turbulence, big collapses and do impossible things in the air, ground or water. I suppose pleasure is really different for everyone and no one should force people what to do, especially us arrogant old farts who are too scared to fly with more than a tiny little bit of brakes. Us old farts have other vices - I drink wine and I love my steak, when my doctor says vegetables are safer to eat! I don't want vegetables even if it kills me!
I am probably only afford one of them....but I want the advanced wing because it's so graceful and elegant looking! Is it possible as a beginner to train in the advanced class from the beginning?
no way, i think you would have to be lucky to survive the furst flight with advanced class, sone pilots can't fly wings like these after 10 years of flying
GcoEnterprises The advanced XC wings are very hard to fly, they require alot of skill, knowledge and active input. Think of them as F1 cars. None learns how to drive a car in a F1 MacLaren, and not everyone can drive one safely.
@@flybubbleparagliding Yeah, I was an aerospace design engineer. Doesn't surprise me one bit. Except for elite competition, though, I wouldn't TOUCH those wings. Seriously, they look scary. But I'm sure to the wingsuiters and guys jumping from plane to plane or plane to ground level nets, think even those are WAYYY TOOO stable and Tame. It's ALL relative. ;-) I've seen a few of them fold up in the air in heavy thermal activity. Are the higher performance versions more likely to do this, too? I would suspect it is the case with higher aspect ratios. Also, aren't rotors off of soaring mountains an issue?
Dear Flybubble, Acrowings are probably the safest wings to fly. Why not mention them? Unfortunately, increasingly, EN certification is increasingly politically motivated and are deviating from the real air safety of the wings. With experience, you realize that collapse behavior that are artificial are very different from collapse that occurs in real mountain air. The first wing I had was an Advanced Alpha 4, EN B, It put me many times in danger, because it numbs wing feedback, making you feel safe until suddenly something nasty happens and it's too late. Now, I fly AcroWings RR from Nova, and this EN D wing, is insanely safe even in extremely turbulent mountain air. I never would have imagined that from the EN D rating, but it was a present from by girlfriend. I will never go by LTF/EN certifications. I even outfly XC gliders, because the thermal feedback is so good. I think to teach students about the feeling of the wings is the most important lesson of paragliding. Would you benefit most from learning to drive in a Fiat Panda, or a Porsche? In France, people start learning flying even with Mantra M6, and France is the birthplace of free flying as we know it, and it is very windy there!!
And what happens when a beginner pulls too much on one side of the brake? An EN-A glider is forgiving, while an acro wing, like you said, will go into a perfect helico until it hits the ground! How is that safe? Besides, beginners have no idea what to do with so much feedback - they need some to fly actively, but too much will just scare them and make them land as soon as possible. I also find it hard to believe that you outfly xc wings, since the wind loading is much greater on an acro wing, and the glide ratio doesn't even come into question. I have flown in the same thermals with acro wings, and they could only climb on strong thermals. Also, start flying with a Mantra M6? That's like taking art classes and wanting to paint the Mona Lisa on your first try. You will only get frustrated because nothing works - it's hard to launch, unforgiving, and it gives you so much feedback that you go crazy.
make an updated version of this video, this was amazingly descriptive
Didn't expect a comparison of the classes. Well done, that is exactly what I was looking for! I'm flying an EN-A wing and I have no plans to progress until I'm confident in every situation. I bought an old EN-C glider for cheap though, just for Groundhandling. It is incredible how much different the wing feels in every aspect:
- unsheathed lines are so prone to tangle!
- the risers are very slim and you need to take good care not to twist them when sorting lines
- The lines are much longer so starting the glider is much more dynamic and you need more breaks to tame it
- The glider also tends to roll a lot more
- No wires/sticks to support the nose profile (much simple to pack, but I would not want to hit a thermal with it)
I really enjoyed watching your video as I was contemplating buying a new glider (Mantra M6) after a Sigma 9 and an Artik 4. What I love in your description is your insistance eon pleasure, joy, the ultimate goal of flying (with friends) wheras we tend to look for the highest performance, forgetting maybe that if we are not competitors, the joy of flying should not be tarnished by the preoccupation of struggling with air trubulences and our glider. I remember a pilot flying with a Mantra M6, feeling the need to land because it was becoming bumpy, whereas with my Hook 3, I felt the air was really clean and harmonious... Food for thought...
You are completly right in this video, the only important word at the end of the day is "fun"!! You can fly a A all your life and enjoy each second you pass in the air, but if you prefer follow the hype and take a D wing when you have only 60 hours of fly you will definitly pass your next time in the air with some squiz sphincters...
2021 so my research is paying off doing some home work on wings , thank you for a lovely video well explained and easy to understand , very much appreciated thank you. 👍
For several years now I have been trying to educate paraMOTOR pilots, that most of the manufacturers try to hit these design class goals or buckets. As you know, most paramotor wing reviews, use descriptors like "rad" and "totally awesome" which don't do much for pinning down a wing's flight characteristics, yet depending on the content producer...the hype still relates to sales. Here, in one short 11 minute video, you've done what I've tried to do with hundreds of hours of conversation with folks considering their "next wing".
Watching in 2022...still pertinent!
Note: Number of hours mentioned, should be considered "per year" (50h/year for a XC, 100h/year for a Performance etc).
Every CZcams video except this one always responds to the question of which equipment to purchase in the same way
"There are no best ones to buy and you won't know until you've been flying for a while"
Just give me a rough ballpark mate 😂
I was looking for this video for about 30 mins. thank you for making me more clear on differences. best detailed I have ever witnessed.
Very informative and well edited, thank you Flybubble!
Gold content all around your channel sir. Thank you!
Thanks so much for the review. I wish I had seen a video like this 4 years ago, but it is never late, and it enforces what I have learned about the different classes of wings.
Wow! This video is a must see for all! I definitely got the assurance of where I should be from this video (Progression)! Thank you Greg... your explanations are impecable and so clear to understand.
Great video with that's informative without extra filler content.
Very nice video !!! and good global comparison of the different classes
THUMBS UP !
Nice to hear a familiar accent :-). I didn't realize you were in the UK now. I enjoyed the comparisons and find your videos informative and well presented. Thank you Greg.
Well done Flybubble! A great series of videos, informative, practical and very helpful
Another awesome video, thanks for this and I'm waiting for more.
I've heard one opinion (that seems strange to me) about choosing wing for coastal soaring and would love to hear what do you think of it: "For coastal soaring (that is: laminar breezes, almost no turbulence) it is wiser to choose class or two higher paraglider, than the one you normally fly in thermal conditions - because speed reserve and better glide ratio have bigger impact on safe coastal soaring than passive safety of the wing".
4:40 Woah, that wing just folded in half!
a big thanks to the Flybubble team
Great Job, as usual
Big Thank You for this great video!
Great video Greg! Enjoyed watching the comparisons. Looking forward to when I'm in the market for a wing...
Great video ... you are the best of the best!!!
I have a friend who flys allot and he gave me an old D class wing to practice my ground handling before I get into the paragliding school next spring ... I guess he wanted to joke with me ... but the joke is on him ... I can get it in the air and hold it there :D :D :D I don't have the balls to fly with it ... but it sure is fun learning all this stuff from youtube. I guess I'll start with a progression wing once I start school and then move up to the XC wing, because I mainly want to fly for fun and not for some extreme results. See you in the skies bois!
Thank you for this vid. This is one that everyone should watch ! Dont forget why we fly =)
Cheers and blue skies !
nice & helpful video, starting in paragliding
Refreshingly informative, interesting and involving, thanks for making the effort...nice one.
Awesome video... thank you for sharing. PS loved the end
Merci beaucoup top vidéo
Really enjoyed this comparison. Thank you.
Thank u so much for this comparasion. its really helpfull
great information
Good info Greg, nicely shot and edited
Superb video and explanations as always! Can you tell something about the right weightrange. I'm thinking about the Masala 2, but my weight including gear etc. is about 97kg. What would be the right size: S (
very informative
Thank you Thank you Thank you.
I am surprised to see that the XC wing was quite forgiving, and perhaps designed to cope with turbulence.
Great info cheers.
On the beginner wings can you still thermal and get a fair distance or are they mostly wings to fly at lower altitudes ? Sorry for the naiive question. Totally new to this and intend to train once the season is ready. This video is very informative BTW. Thanks.
thank you for that great and helpful video. How big is the difference between Iota and Sigma 9? I want to change my Epsilon 7 and I am not sure if the step to Sigma 9 is too big after around 250 flights in the alps (thermal, xc, soaring) and a SIV?! Thanks in advance :)
Thanks guys, great video and explanations. I'm thinking of getting a new wing. I fly a rush2, on the coast and starting to chase xcountry (in New Zealand), and would look at the XC range. I had a discussion about the fact that in small sizes (xs,s) certain wings have a way better aspect ratios than the same wing in bigger size, Is there a brand that is more specialised in small sizes? I heard that nova was, with the Mentor, what is your view on this? cheers
Have a look at shop.flybubble.co.uk/wings ... it's not true that small sizes have better aspect ratio, as far as I know every manufacturer scales the wings exactly so the aspect ratio is constant across all sizes. the wing loading changes, and here Nova and Advance have the best (highest) wing loadings available on the smaller classes, and thus speed for XC into wind glides will be a bit higher. Check out the Mentor4 and Iota.
Greg Hamerton great, thanks
Greg Hamerton
Something I keep looking for is information on XS and S wings! Thanks! I have been on every manufactures site out there researching but not much is there for light weights or they are still in testing and then are overpriced on the training end when released. My problem is I manage to hold my weight up to 56.6 kg (after cancer) and it's my heavy weight! I get down to 54.4 in a days time so ballasting my self for my old Buzz (65kg) is a PITA at times! Thanks for your site as I do come in often!
rolloverriderpgr thanks, we've found the skywalk Tonic (shop.flybubble.co.uk/skywalk-tonic-m-16-red-second-hand-55024) does very well for light pilots, might be worth considering too
Exactly what I look for until I hit the darn "B" rating! But thanks for the input. They are on my keep watching list!
6:53 I'm starting lessons soon, are those collapases normal? And are they easily recovered from?
As a person new to paragliding but not new to flying I was shocked by the differences is what was considered an acceptable wing based on a pilot's flying hours. With someone being classified as knowledgeable at 50 hours or ready for an advanced wing at 200 hours. As a career helicopter pilot with, in the neighborhood of 17,000 flight hours in helicopters. In my industry, we would still consider someone with 1,000 hours to be a newbie. How costly is it going to be for a newbie paraglider pilot if you are going to want to change wings as you rocket up in hours from full novice to 250 hour pilot?
G.informative..
Where was this lovely video taken?
G video..
Are your recommended hours of air time per year or in total? As totals the numbers seem to be really low.
Hey guy's can you please tell me the location of that video!? thanks!
I am an old fart, so struggling with turbulence isn't good for my heart! Younger people, they want lots of turbulence, big collapses and do impossible things in the air, ground or water. I suppose pleasure is really different for everyone and no one should force people what to do, especially us arrogant old farts who are too scared to fly with more than a tiny little bit of brakes. Us old farts have other vices - I drink wine and I love my steak, when my doctor says vegetables are safer to eat! I don't want vegetables even if it kills me!
I'm really confused about the aspect ratio of the gliders, can you explain me?
Eric:) Edit: I meant Epic:D
Is it possible to do thermal flight with an EN A class? What´s the difference?
I am probably only afford one of them....but I want the advanced wing because it's so graceful and elegant looking! Is it possible as a beginner to train in the advanced class from the beginning?
no way, i think you would have to be lucky to survive the furst flight with advanced class, sone pilots can't fly wings like these after 10 years of flying
GcoEnterprises The advanced XC wings are very hard to fly, they require alot of skill, knowledge and active input. Think of them as F1 cars. None learns how to drive a car in a F1 MacLaren, and not everyone can drive one safely.
Even worse; at least you can pull on the side of the road and stop the F1 car when you are scared, but that won't work on a glider..
A progressive (beginner) glider flown at 100% has more performance than an advanced glider flown at 10% ... And it is much more enjoyable and safe!
Would you recommend second hand or new glider for beginners?
I feel like this would be helpful if I understood half of the terminology
Where is this place?
MAN, those performance wings look finicky!
@@flybubbleparagliding Yeah, I was an aerospace design engineer. Doesn't surprise me one bit. Except for elite competition, though, I wouldn't TOUCH those wings. Seriously, they look scary. But I'm sure to the wingsuiters and guys jumping from plane to plane or plane to ground level nets, think even those are WAYYY TOOO stable and Tame. It's ALL relative. ;-) I've seen a few of them fold up in the air in heavy thermal activity. Are the higher performance versions more likely to do this, too? I would suspect it is the case with higher aspect ratios. Also, aren't rotors off of soaring mountains an issue?
Dear Flybubble, Acrowings are probably the safest wings to fly. Why not mention them? Unfortunately, increasingly, EN certification is increasingly politically motivated and are deviating from the real air safety of the wings. With experience, you realize that collapse behavior that are artificial are very different from collapse that occurs in real mountain air. The first wing I had was an Advanced Alpha 4, EN B, It put me many times in danger, because it numbs wing feedback, making you feel safe until suddenly something nasty happens and it's too late. Now, I fly AcroWings RR from Nova, and this EN D wing, is insanely safe even in extremely turbulent mountain air. I never would have imagined that from the EN D rating, but it was a present from by girlfriend. I will never go by LTF/EN certifications. I even outfly XC gliders, because the thermal feedback is so good. I think to teach students about the feeling of the wings is the most important lesson of paragliding. Would you benefit most from learning to drive in a Fiat Panda, or a Porsche? In France, people start learning flying even with Mantra M6, and France is the birthplace of free flying as we know it, and it is very windy there!!
And what happens when a beginner pulls too much on one side of the brake? An EN-A glider is forgiving, while an acro wing, like you said, will go into a perfect helico until it hits the ground! How is that safe? Besides, beginners have no idea what to do with so much feedback - they need some to fly actively, but too much will just scare them and make them land as soon as possible. I also find it hard to believe that you outfly xc wings, since the wind loading is much greater on an acro wing, and the glide ratio doesn't even come into question. I have flown in the same thermals with acro wings, and they could only climb on strong thermals. Also, start flying with a Mantra M6? That's like taking art classes and wanting to paint the Mona Lisa on your first try. You will only get frustrated because nothing works - it's hard to launch, unforgiving, and it gives you so much feedback that you go crazy.