Why Reina won the reaudition- band geek commentary- Hibike! Euphonium
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
- Commentary on why Reina beat Kaori by a band geek, for band geeks. Mostly these are musical things I address, not technical ones, since I'm not a brass player. Please comment if you're a brass player and noticed something I didn't, or have a correction!
I really start to wonder how did they directed and instructed the musicians in this anime. Did they tell the musician "Hey, play this piece slightly worse than him/her" and when the characters are to make a mistake in the anime do they tell them "Hey, intentionally screw up this part"?
It really makes you appreciate the effort they put into the music aspect of this anime.
warpatato i don't know if you already found that video over the past 4 months but i'll send the link anyway. same uploader as for this video btw :)
czcams.com/video/o5bu7p1DiN8/video.html
The video has sadly been taken down.
They use a regular musician for Kaori and the top Japanese trumpet player for Reina.
Ok so I know I'm a year late, but from what I read in a translated staff interview Kaori's trumpet player was the top trumpet in the Senzoku Gakuen Freshman Ensemble (the group that plays for Kitauji's band), while Reina's trumpet player was from a professional Japanese orchestra. All in all though, the freshman trumpet player still does an amazing job!
I was impressed by how poor the performance was at the opening of the first season. It must take serious work for professionals to adjust their performances to be just bad enough but not terrible.
kaori sounded like she wanted the audition solo to be over fasT
She probably didn't want to be there also. She would rather Reina just go. Probably even resenting Yuuko for putting her through that. Yuuko always thinks she makes people happy when she puts others in a lot of turmoil. Kaori and Mizore.
@@malaysabolehpsy I don’t think so. Of course she knew that Reina was better, but that was her os year, besides the fact that happened the year before.
She was “forced” but she’d also wanted to play the solo. But at the very end, as in the auditions, who plays the better gets to play at the presentation. So, as much as she wanted to solo, she wanted more to succeed, cause after those two years, that was the first and only time that she had to actually compete
I kinda feel like she didn't want to go out without a fight, even if it was sort of Yuuko who pushed it. She did practice the solo after Reina was selected so it would make sense if in her heart she still hoped to change the outcome.
>slurring down is hard
oh boi is it a bitch to do. gotta slow down airspeed while maintaining the air flow so the sound doesn't distort, not to mention she maintained the dynamics really well there, where a less experienced trumpet player would lower their dynamics to help with the lip slur.
I didn't know why Reina's solo sounded better so watching this breakdown helped me to kind of get the idea why her solo felt more sincere.
I see Reina has been practising for 40 hours a day
LING LING VS KOUSAKA REINA
WHO WOULD WIN???
@@takinoborudesu no, slappers would win :D
Yep, 40 Hours a day. That's sounds legit
I would LOVE to see more of these analyses and commentaries! It makes me appreciate the musicianship more and I find it fascinating. Can you do one analysing Asuka and Kumiko's playing?
Really liked and appreciated this analysis. I watch both scenes a few times but I didn't have the musical prowess to understand the scene without generalizing and thinking "yeah I liked Reina's better."
Having played trumpet in concert band for 10 years, this was spot on! I had many of the same reactions you did, but you put it into words more clearly than I could. This scene is a perfect example of why Hibike! Euphonium is one of the most uniquely realistic shows about bands or orchestras. Another show would have made Kaori more “obviously” bad, or even outright bad, compared to Reina. But this show doesn’t spoon feed the audience anything musically.
I always think about this scene and Kaori is a wonderful person and she was one of the strongest in the show.
And she is truly a Victim through and through. Because she should have had the Solo 2 years in a row but she doesn’t get it because of the seniority rule and when it’s her turn to benefit from the rule, they change the rule. And it’s good to change it because the rule was bad. But Kaori gets fucked over. Because everyone before benefited and so will everyone after her but she is the only one who doesn’t get anything out of the process. No one will suffer like she did ever again.
She was pretty much guaranteed to get it otherwise? That's harsh brah...
@@zoushuuIf Reina was out of the picture, it’s guaranteed that Kaori will be doing the solo. Kaori is their top trumpet player (excluding Reina ofc) and it’s her third and final year of high school. The seniority rule played a big part in both seasons of the shows, and the 2nd year movie, it’s also the reason why Kumiko was always the observer (her experience with her senior from middle school); why Nozomi left the club. Kaori sacrificing her chance to perform the solo is quite frankly the turning point in all of these characters’ development.
I know it's two years late, but oh man were you wrong about that last statement. Kumiko suffered the same fate as Kaori, but Kumiko handled it very well as she had seen the scenario before(this clip). And suddenly, everyone understood Yuuko's frustrations.
@@escribir_ink Not true Kumiko didn’t lose to a seniority rule. She just lost because she wasn’t as technical as Kuroe-san.
Kumiko lost a vote
And emphasized repeatedly that Kitauji was a meritocracy.
So she lost on her own terms.
Kaori literally was a martyr who got ducked over.
@@commanderpinnacles so true it hurts
As a brass player, your analyses are amazingly accurate. I've come to appreciate this a lot more after your commentary! Awesome work, and keep it up!
PC10K I have zero knowledge in playing instruments but can u help with with an explaination
What is breaking note?
And taper
@@deltaed3517 Well they're not "musician" terms - just Enlgish - but I can give you some background on why it's important. The video doesn't mention "breaking note" but mentions "breaking the phrase" and "cracking a note" so I'm not sure which you mean. Cracking a note is pretty self-explanatory but I can go into the physics of it. A trumpet works by the player vibrating (buzzing) their lips at the exact frequency required to produce the pitch. Often times (even professionals) may sometimes crack a note, which is when the player doesn't play the right frequency for a note and so another note comes out until they adjust.
Breaking the phrase is a little more subtle, but just like in lyrical music, instrumental music has phrases. Try singing the American national anthem "Oh say can you see" but take a breath between 'can' and 'you'. Honestly this gets a little subjective, but mature musicians will make more conscious decisions about how they break up the music to breathe, while younger musicians, with less breath control, will be more in survival mode and breathe where they need to.
Tapering is just getting softer at the end of a note. It's pointed in this video because it's definitely a conscious decision on the part of the player. Again, it can be subjective on whether it makes it better, but I agree with the poster that it enhances the phrase. Little things like that often aren't written out explicitly in the music, and the musician has some freedom to interpret it.
Matthew Whaley wats slurring I can hear the difference but how is it harder
Japaneseplease
wow this really revealing for me and I'm really glad the studio put so much time into making the music too
They put in a lot of effort to show a good and an even better performance. Even if you a are not a brass player you‘ll notice the difference between these two without shaming or disrespecting Kaori‘s performance.
As a percussionist I don’t know any of this :3
same
Same here
Thanks for helping the world in further appreciating this show's outstanding attention for detail.
Sasuga
My question is, how on earth do you direct a scene like this for your musicians? Hell, how do you even go about scripting such a scene?
Speaking as a musician who's done professional recording sessions, I think it probably was really easy for the trumpet players to do this scene! Reina's solo was played by THE top trumpeter in Japan, and Kaori's was done by the top high school trumpter in Japan (to my knowledge).
Probably they did a quick meet-and-greet with the professional trumpet and the lucky trumpet kid, then the directors probably gave the musicians a lot of leeway on how to record since they know their own instruments best. The student and the professional probably talked about what makes one solo better than the other, then they just went ahead and recorded and that's it.
@@takinoborudesu That's actually really cool, this show is honestly fucking amazing, love it to death
@@takinoborudesu I wonder if, after that learning opportunity, the high schooler would be able to apply some of the more refined techniques the pro used
your texts are wayyy tooo faaaast i had to pause the video for 100 times when watching lolx
sorry about that! unfortunately music is an art form that exists within the structure of time, and i wanted comments to pop up during the spot they're addressing... so i wasn't sure how to work with that. but someone on tumblr gave me good advice for doing it better next time!
taki-noboru desu either pause the music or scroll and highlight the relevant commentary as it happens
I had to watch it a few times to catch up lol
I find it amazing how you and the people who knows about music are able to distinguish every little part while a normal person like me can only hear a bit of a difference. I only recognise that Kaori is a bit rushing at the start but not much more after that, even after you point the other things out.
Good stuff reina is op
REINA TOO OP
As a trumpet player myself, I certify this analysis. Very good. I wanted Kaori to sound better, but they just made Reina op for a HS freshman
Now you gotta comment on the euphonium audition! Subscribing for your commentary hehe
oh thank you i had wondered about it since i don’t play any brass instruments but after you pointed out some stuff i can definitely hear it now
Dude you should really do more anallysis on anime music, you're awesome
Thank you! Just after watching the scene in the anime I wondered what were the differences and luckily I found your video
I've been out of band for four, nearing on five years and I'm proud to say I recognized most of the notes you pointed out the first time I heard this.
I got you in my recommended page and damn. so helpful. I play violin and have a recital coming soon (in the 14th of february as of writing) and all I can say is that this is helpful for me and probably many other beginners because it explains why this one sounds good and this one does not and you explain in a way that almost everyone and their mother can understand.
yesss now, it was clearly obvious when I watched this scene, reina blew me away! the start was also such an impression and up to the last! bravo!
That's what's so great about this anime. It's easy to compare between a good and bad performance. It's much harder to compare a great performance with a really great performance
Thanks for this analysis. I am happy to see some people who are able to do this
I loved your analysis of this. I want to try to play it, but on trombone.
I'd love to hear your opinion on this 3rd season's auditions
I personally don't agree with the result
Kind of ironic display of character. Throughout the whole series, Kaori has been the kind and girlish one, but in this performance she plays it strong and torrent-like (which eventually led to some tongings, though nothing's against original sheet). On the other hand, Reina played it with such an emotion and maximize dynamics with her skillful air (and speed) control. My opinion? GET A PRO NEARBY YOU, like Reina's father. You can't learn such things by yourself
I agree, it's hard to learn these things without a pro guiding you.
The main difference between Reina and Kaori:
Kaori: "Wow, solo. Lots of hard notes. Gotta learn them all correctly in the right order. Yeah I can do that now. Now I'll add some dynamics and emotion. Okay, good to go."
Reina: "Okay, my solo is in-between the 1st movement and the 3rd movement, which both contain mostly fast and rigid music. Therefore, I should play slow and fluid, which will provide contrast, and will help take the band to nationals."
Kaori starts at the beginning and builds a blurry goal as she goes. Reina starts with a clear goal and works backwards. In the classical music world, that makes all the difference :)
I like your thinking. The ability to read beyond the sheet music and score is the real difference for professional players :kind of Cadenza thing. As a piano player, I like Chopin for the same reason, but also struggling to find my own colour. Coming back to the animation, I was disappointed with the trumpet solo performance in the Kansai competition scene. Totally downgraded compared to this video.
Not just her father. She goes for lessons as well. While piano and string instrument lessons are common, individual lessons in band instruments are rare.
@@Dilettante-l1s Same irl player as the Kaori solo here. Therefore also the same touch.
Cool job really digging into this! I remember watching this scene with cruddy headphones (working out or something) and I was wondering why Reina was chosen.
I watched it with pretty shitty speakers, but the difference was crystal clear to me.
Interesting analisys, as a brass player myself I would have picked Reina for the solo 10 times out of 10q
People are pointing out the attention to detail which is amazing in this show. As a euphonium and trombone player with perfect pitch, I can say for certain that for all of the brass instruments the fingers and slide positions match what they are on the instruments, and I would assume they put that same amount of detail in the woodwinds and double bass.
And yet whenever I see a live performance of Crescent Moon Dance, the eighth notes are rushed like Kaori's. Yes, Reina's playing in this instance is better with dynamics and timing and such, but I believe that one could argue that Kaori should have won when considering accuracy. Technically, Reina played the solo entirely too slow, which would throw off what it was intended to sound like, demonstrated in the many live performances that play it like Kaori with rushed eighth notes.
The reason why so many live performances are rushed are because:
1) If you've seen the sheet music, the notes are written as sixteenths. However, any good musician knows that sixteenths do not equal fast notes (just like in mozart's clarinet concerto 2nd mvt). But a lot of musicians tend to freak out when they see sixteenths and feel the urge to play them faster.
2) Live performances have more of a sense of anxiety. Yes, even professional musicians get nervous-- stage fright doesn't really go away. That tends to cause more rushing than recording the solo in a studio
3) Many musicians are playing it safe. It's safer in a live setting to play the solo faster, because that means each phrase uses less air. By saving air on note duration, trumpet players have more air support to perform the slurs properly screwing them up.
However, since the entire solo is basically a cadenza, there isn't really any "accurate" tempo. Kaori's tempo wasn't necessarily more accurate than Reina's. However, if we consider purely the musical structure of the piece's movements (fast-slow-fast), and that the middle movement is supposed to provide some contrast to the opening and closing movements, I think there's a better argument to be made for a slower 2nd-mvt trumper solo than for a faster one.
@@takinoborudesu where did you buy the sheet music?
Now I need an analysis like this but for the season 3 re-audition
i'm asking too much, but i wouldn't mind you explaining what happened in season 3 episode 12 between those two in that scene, just like how you did with this scene here.
great video analysis
Nice analyses. I could only tell that Reina's sound was much richer than Kaori's in the beginning part of the solo
Reina's performance was perfection, I argue there is a player capable of playing this piece better.
i’m not sure why when she slurs the note the F is either flat or its the actual note the composer wrote
This is just 👌 subscribed😩🙌
Can you do Kumiko and Mayu solo audition?
As a brass player I think it's not quite so clear cut. I can tell that the person that played Reina's part was a professional, and Kaori's player was not, (though a very good player, probably a music college student), I actually think it's not obvious who is better. I do agree that most musicians would say that Reina is better but there are things that I like more about Kaori's playing. Certain little ways of shaping sound or attacking notes. I think I like her vibrato more. Sometimes Reina's tone is better, but sometimes Kaori's is. I actually find that a lot of very top level trumpet players end up having a tone that's a bit too laser precise and therefore kind of flat; it ends up sounding like a synthesizer. In an ensemble passage this might be exactly what you want, but maybe not so much in a solo.
Anyway, I see why Taki and the others picked reina, but I personally declare it to be not clear either way.
It's 100% clear Reina was SO MUCH better.
Thanks Taki-sensei
@taki-sensei can you tell me who comment about this scene? i am curios actually
Please make a comment on Kumiko and Mayu's performance 😞 I want someone to convince me that Mayu is better than Kumiko. I really think she deserves to get thw soli
I think Kumiko did better.
GREAT VIDEO
Great video
It would be a better audition if it was done behind curtain and the ensemble choose which one they prefer. Not out in open
The reason why slurring large intervals - up or down - is so hard on brass is because of all the partials in between. You even hear in Reina's slurs how she still hits the 5th in the octave slur (both going up and down). Maintaining a strong embouchure and airflow while jumping between partials is a challenge. This is exacerbated when the performer erroneously think you need a larger volume of air instead of faster air to get higher notes, and you can loosen your embouchure and use slower, wider air on low notes. This results in blattiness and overexertion on the high notes, poor intonation on low notes, and spotty slotting everywhere.
Also I didn't think Kaori's intonation was any worse than Reina's. Her timbre and phrasing were less advanced, yes, and her obvious nervousness got in the way of her air control. But Reina was WAY sharp in the upper register. I put two separate tuners and a synth against it to verify what my ears were telling me, and they showed Reina sharp and Kaori largely in tune.
Can't read and hear at same time. Damn it.
xd
Bro, can you make investigation between kumiko and mayu's reaudition in s3?
@@bakayaro6473 ive gotten a LOT of messages about this so i might make an video :) thanks for watching!
So, was Taki Sensei gonna let Kaori play the solo since he asked her first?
In the Middle of the Trumpet solo there’s bassoon solo
0:38
At this part
We all know that Reina is the best
Kaori definitely did the last note better. For things like that on brass you're probably better off articulating slightly and while she didn't do the articulation itself super well she did play it more cleanly as she didn't fall on top of the note like reina did. Overall reina did do better but the last note Def goes to Kaori by a mile, even though the articulation was a bit aggressive for the style of the piece
hm let's agree to disagree
You can't be more wrong.
Brass player here, I'm not sure exactly who told you that slurring down is extremely difficult, but slurring up, in my experience with euphonium, trombone, trumpet, and horn, is much more difficult than slurring down
wich melody? or symphony?
This is the trumpet solo of Crescent Moon Dance.
Anyone know what trumpet piece this is
Crescent Moon Dance, it was composed specifically for the anime
Kaori's beginning breath is also shallow
Can I ask what song did they use here to perform??
Crescent moon dance
This is me when I play at home I’m like Reina. Then when I perform in front my teacher I play like that other girl.
my dumbass brain just thought 'oh dang I think Reina played better, idk why tho' even though I have 7 years of experience playing the piano and should very well know musical theories.
How did any high school student who's not named Wynton ever play this well?
Slurring down is actually the easiest thing to do. You literally relax your lip muscles
I think that there isn't octave slur written in score, so Kaori did it more properly then Reina, from this what I know this is not "ad libitum" or in other words "optional, free" solo, so you must play as written, not as "feeling" 🤔
When I listen to Reina i hear many things that overplayed, for example overused vibrato, and why this note 0:32 (sounding D#) is so accented when it supposed to be next D# 0:35 (whole phrase 0:28-0:43) and who put accents on triplets in 0:10?
Are you aware that Reina was played by the best trumpet player in Japan and Kaori by a random high school student? Do you think the amateur did better than the professional? Do you know that in music there are some things called techniques and styles and that the score does not have written which one to use and is left to the choice of the performer?
@@kuv3809 Yeah, but you should still have in mind that you are playing composers stuff, you can always reaarange sth but then it is not original.
@@kuv3809 indeed Reina's playing was sth diffrent but personally it was quite "hammery" to listen to, too strong and those accents on random notes.
No se ingles :"v
Wdym air support
Playing it without frequent inhales.
Didn’t reina lose though? I thought that kaoiri got the solo then gave it to reina
nope, the way Taki phrased his question was more like, "Kaori, do you really think you deserve this solo?" Like he was offering her the chance to concede instead of blatantly telling her she lost.
@@takinoborudesu I think it's half and half. His plan A was that his students would actually have the veterancy to realize Reina is better and the conscience to admit so. But for one thing they are *really* loyal to Kaori and for another while they are aware Reina is *good* I'm not sure whether they realize Reina is *better*.
The whole "You two knew each other accusation" suggests Yuuko didn't even realize Reina is better from their regular practices. Otherwise, she'd realize there's no point in complaining about connections where an ability difference is manifest and try another tack.
So for Plan B Taki had to try and pressure Kaori to do the right thing, and she does.
@@kosomolsk I think that Taki doing it that way was actually kind of messed up. I really don't like it when people nominally give a decision to someone, but only will like or accept a certain decision. Don't give Kaori the decision if you aren't actually OK with either outcome. I find this business of "Kaori, will you play the solo? (but Read the mood, Reina is better, and if you don't pick her you are being selfish)" to be pretty offensive.
@@CavalloDiSpade I see your point. On the other hand, that's really Taki's Plan B or even Plan C. Plan A was him doing the audition, and people accepting his expertise. Plan B was the public audition. So that was pretty much the last idea he had before he bows to Japan's Laws of Seniority.
Kaori can play the violin better anyway
just use a headphone, you don't need to explain why.
0:33 Why Yuuko is sad?
Because Yuko also realized that Reina was better
Wait.. I thought Kaori did win, she just refused
It was a tie and so Taki asked Kaori if she thought she was better than Reina albeit in a roundabout way ( will you play the solo? ) which she then declines.
Reed doubler here. Saxes marching and bassoons in concert. Technically Reina-san was better. She got there through hard work and practice practice practice. I started bassoon in middle school and was third chair for my first year. And then over the summer I took summer music and practiced and practiced and practiced. Second and third years I was section leader. And I practiced more and more to keep that. Michael Jordan shot 1000 free throws every day. Look at the regimen Steph Curry does. Music is a performance just the same.
Kaori lose the moment she have to play first
The 2nd one hella rushed
But why had Taki-sensei chosen Kaori first? Was he trying to be polite? In any case, he betrayed the principle of meritocracy, betrayed his own principles, betrayed the better player, and betrayed the band by choosing the worse player. So Reina won not because she played better (which she did), but because Kaori turned out to be graceful in defeat and saved the teacher from such an embarrassment.
No Taki didn't actually choose Kaori. The way he phrased the question would actually translate better into English like this: "Ms. Kaori, do you think YOU should play this solo?" It's pressuring her to give in to Reina. I would say that Taki handled it well though by giving Kaori the opportunity to defer to Reina, instead of Taki himself just blatantly stomping on Kaori's performance.
Huh, that explains a lot. In fact, it makes Taki an even better teacher than I thought he was. He knows Reina played better and he knows that Kaori knows that too. And he TRUSTS Kaori to make the right call because he understands how great of a person she is. This show is brilliant.
@@hoarder1919 Yes he showed an amazing display of tactfulness for a beginner teacher.
i hate reina kaori should be the solois
I don't understand a shit you're saying
this is commentary meant for musicians to understand :) but I'm thinking about making a video to explain things for non musicians
@@takinoborudesu Is that video still in the making? Would love to see it.
@@takinoborudesu I'm sorry you never found time to make it.
Reina didn´t win the reaudition!She lost and that she was allowed to play the solo was a gift from Kaori!Point!
🤡🤡
It was the students who had to choose the solo, and they almost all came with the firm intention of choosing Kaori. The fact that most did not applaud Kaori in the end and preferred to remain silent says all about the fact that Reina won this audition. The people who applauded Kaori did it because it was their friend (Yuuko, Haruka etc.) This doesn’t detract from Kaori’s performance, but Reina was a bit better.
@@nekomoridahlia7119 The headline of this video says "Why Reina won the reaudition" and that´s wrong, she didn´t win.
Yes, her performance was better, but to play the solo was a privilege for the most important senior of the club.
To change the rules just for the desire of two new egomaniacs was bullshit and I was disapointed of Kaoris classmates who didn´t cheer more for her.
Aoi was the only honest member of the third grade wich said she just wanted to play saxophone for fun in the club... all her classmates did agree just to play basics a year before and to sacrifice their whole free time and even their vacations to make the dream of two new people come true.
In my world human sleeping pills stay sleeping pills a year later, too.
@@zimbo65a She won because she was better, you know what they mean, don't he obtuse.