Big Changes Coming to Disney Vacation Club?
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2024
- In today's show, we're discussing all the details of the Palmetto DVC Trust and its effect on DVC Members and DVC Ownership in the future!
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I think it is safe to say that this change is for the benefit of Disney over us.
You think they are trying to keep the wolfs away
Every decision they make is for corporate benefit.
Agreed, every decision they make is with them in mind first, always.
I think Amy is correct. The cabins are not permanent structures and that is why they are intrust and not deeded. They can be moved to another location so you are buying the experience of staying there and not owning them. At some point in the next 50 years they will be replaced not just refurbished.
I would agree. The cabins are more like a manufactured home. They may be treated differently and be considered personal property vs real property.
Yep this will function no different than other DVC properties and simply just the legal lingo DVC needed to use
If cabin has no wheels and no hitch it is now a manufacturer home which can be mortgaged.
Very good point.
Big fan of the show. Thank you.
This may be a little off topic but I wanted to comment as a member of DVC Polynesian.
I agree with Derek DeBoer’s comment essentially about the loss of value.
I’m really not happy about the new Polynesian building. This resort is always packed and now we are going to add another building to the already limited onsite amenities? Everyone staying in the new building will create a huge over-crowding situation.
It is already hard enough to get a dinner reservation at ‘Ohana.
The monorail station will be packed.
The swimming pool is already crowded.
So many more will have the 7 month booking window.
Thanks to this episode, I now know that what I was told when I purchased my DVC membership directly from Disney is not true: “Should the Polynesian resort ever expand, the number of points allotted to that resort will not increase. As such, the allotted points will be re-distributed across all of the DVC rooms, new and old.”
I now believe the new Poly will have a different name and will likely fall under this new Trust system you guys are describing.
At the time I bought DVC, the Poly was nearly sold out. With that, I decided to buy more points directly from Disney and made a phone call when we returned home from our Disney vacation.
Since then, I’ve learned about purchasing DVC after market and have done so twice. My latest purchase has just been approved by Disney and I bought through the DVC Resale Market!
Now that there is likely going to be a flood of new DVC Poly points available, I can’t help but believe this de-values my Poly membership.
Perhaps you guys could comment if this actually happened with the Grand Floridian expansion. Similar scenario?
Thanks again for producing a great CZcams Channel.
I meant to say 11 month booking window, not 7. Thank you.
Last Thanksgiving time 2023, we were staying at Yacht Club overlooking the lake and we observed around 11am a pet owner allowing their dog to urinate directly on to the cement sidewalk. It was at a busy exit to one of the buildings lakeside, where other guests would be forced to walk straight through it. Nobody stopped or reprimanded the male owner.
WOW😮 this is so eye opening 😮 As a DVC member since 1998, I'm glad I've have bought when I did and I'm out in 2042🤔 Please keep us all informed about this trust 👍🏻 Thanks for sharing 🤗
Great show with great hosts. Only y'all can make the topics of points, associations, and deeds vs trusts interesting and fun. Keep up the great work.
As for financing the trust product, other systems (Marriott) sells a deeded beneficial interest in their trust. The deed is recorded in Orange County Florida. They can then secure the note with that deed. Similar to other mortgages on deeded weeks.
Her point was valid. Mobile homes are not considered permanent structures. I think she is onto something.
Great discussion. Very interested to see how it all plays out. Not at all the point of the show, but if they think dogs won’t be on the furniture (& aren’t already where dogs are allowed) they’re crazy. But I suppose they need to include it in the event something is ruined.
Thanks for doing all the heavy lifting for the rest of us!
I’m wondering if the Trust, which is going to be linked to multiple resorts, is just the beginning of Disney’s plan for the huge amounts of expiring contracts in the not too distant future.
As long as it doesn’t spread to the other properties, Amy’s point makes sense. If they do, then it seems DVC has become another timeshare & hopefully people recognize this. The unique personality of the properties is already disappearing.
This is so convoluted. Speculation only. Could have a tremendous impact on future sales. DVC management needs to seriously consider the present ownership and potential lawsuits
A trust is a corporation. Therefore you are buying shares in a corporation and not a legally deeded agreement; which makes the transfer and resale of timeshares as simple as an entry on a Disney computer also without the expense of filing state documents. It may also solve the limitation of a 50 year deed, where shares in a corporation may have no expiration dates.
I think a lot of great points here are true.... I also believe this is a way for them to take away resale. Buying into a trust means you will not be able to sell the interest at a later time. This is what I believe is actually happening or maybe a side effect of this.
Classic Disney to create environment of uncertainty which fuels speculation. My guess is that trust will create a number of options and flexibilities that Disney may (or may not) want to consider in future for a variety of objectives.
Buy into the trust on one property and then additional properties cost extra, but not full point cost. So you could "own" 1,2,3, or 4 properties based on how much you pay. Dues could get messy. They could also just make the trust purchase at 9 months. That way 11 could still get priority, but you would be ahead of everyone else.
It’s always a money thing. Thanks for update
To Derek's point about this changing availability....we also own from a different timeshare company. Our other timeshare has been pretty much been only selling trust points versus deeded contracts for a while. It has drastically changed the whole dynamic of availability. This is how many other timeshare companies have been operating or how they are changing how they are going to operate going forward. This being said, you can bet that it benefits the timeshare companies and not so much the deeded or even trust owner.
With it being a trust, does that impact the points charts for those properties? As in, right now the number of points required to book a stay at a resort cannot increase or decrease. They currently can only increase in one booking category if they are decreased in a different booking category.
Happy New Year. Now we have DVC 3.0, and there was nothing wrong with DVC 1.0. What a mess. Apparently they don’t pay any attention to the old saying. If it isn’t broke, don’t fix it. DVC used to be the leader in timeshares, now they are a follower.
At 13:30 I think it needs to be clarified. When you buy into the trust you would be buying a deeded beneficial interest in the trust. The trust owns ground lease rights to acreage (land) at the site where the Cabins at Fort Wilderness are located. That acreage is assigned a certain number of points. Those points equate to 30 cabins that sit on that acreage. The points you buy can then be used to book a cabin at Cabins at Fort Wilderness.
There is inventory there, but you don't own it directly like a fraction of a unit at a DVC resort. Which is how it works at the other leasehold condominium properties.
On another note love Pandas and Derek's beautiful shirts😂🎉
I own at Aulani and DL, I'd be pretty pissed if they offered a deal where you could get the seven months at either of them.
I'm willing to bet this has EVERYTHING to do with Disney's loss of their special district status. I imagine you'd need to be an attorney to clearly understand how this will benefit Disney, but I'm wondering if it means that the Palmetto Trust will maintain complete control over the property, keeping the state of Florida out. Kind of like how a trust protects finances since a trust is a separate entity from a person and cannot be hit with debts owed by the deceased.
Hot take - maybe they should have left the cabins alone and not opened the door to all of this wackiness
It's Disney, it's not about the customer being happy anymore, it's about how much can we milk from our guests.
Love the episode. Always good to learn more. I don’t think it be fair to have 11 month priority at more than one resort. DVC needs balance in the force.
They can't change sold property. They are creating the new less risky Co-Op property for only new sales. This should raise the value of existing DVC property. This will create more risk for new Co-Op DVC members, should, for example, Disney reduces its Intvestment in or sells its entertainment park business, which may seriously alter the new owner's benefits to DVC members. This is a major business plan change.
Over the time I have owned property, my rule of thumb has been when the developer stops building its time to start looking for a new community. As long as DVC is building and selling it’s not in their interests to squeeze the owners. Once the new money stops flowing I expect there to be much more restrictions or fees. We bought a 2042 contract for that reason.
My opinions
I own Hilton with a trust and Deeded week. There is 25 resorts in the trust but it only a certain amount of units. The best perk is my home resort is all the resorts in trust. It seems like they can add additional points to sell by bringing the other resorts that are never sold out deeds. They are maximizing the amount of use because timeshares can only sell the max of units.
I am an owner of Marriott points - and to answer 5he question about financing a trust - yes it’s considered a personal loan. That was one of our biggest disappointments about buying Marriott.
Great Show!!!! 🎉🎉🎉 keep them coming.
Awesome job and show 😂
This was very interesting! Thank you for posting! I really like this panel
I really think you guys are overthinking it all. I think the only reason it’s different is because they are mobile homes and not permanent structures. We are planning to buy and I don’t think it’s going to be any different
Going off their point of deeded interest and being able to rent out, gift points, swaps, etc....could the trust be to stop all of that from happening?
I like watching and seeing all the smiles on your faces. Y’all are a fun group .
I agree with Amy, these are trailers not a fixed built structure. It would be like leasing a vehicle for 50 years.
Great show guys, thanks for the content. IMO, If they are selling contracts into a trust, its to avoid a deeded interest in a specific property. Not the same but parallels REIT investment. You wont have control over what the trust decides to “own.”
Also, what Amy and Derek said are 100% spot on. If they seek to help their poorer selling properties by lumping Poly, Cabins, Hawaii, and Disneyland together as one, you will have an overwhelming difficulty in getting Poly always, and Cabins in the winter, bc people wont be choosing the other two.
Question, what level of “say” do DVC members hold with Disney. Can pitch forks and torches be gathered for a village riot if Disney makes a crazy decision?
No a member and looking into it bc I spend a lot of time at Disney with my daughter who is still very young.
Thanks again.
A big part of the difference is when you own a Real Estate interest legally you are an owner, in the trust you are not an owner which gives you different legal rights such as an owner can refuse entry into an occupied room by Disney employees ( did you notice that there are no more Do Not Disturb signs there are only room occupied signs there IS a difference)( I know because I fought this battle at Key West resort) Disney is trying to reign in any rights that vacation club members have that interfere with Disney changing rules and policies
Really good point about the cabins not being real estate and therefore it may need to be done in a trust!
It does sound like they went with trusts as they are not “permanent structures”. I know with mobile homes, you only get a deed for the lot it sits on, not the structure itself. It works easier, legally, for Disney to do a trust on the cabins than to make them permanent structures.
Been following DVC for 10+ years and still glad I'm not a member! lol! So my options are buy resale into a 2nd class membership and now this crap.
great job thanks for the information. looking forward to future updates.
Being older, I have always been concerned about the time of contracts. I would rather see 10-15 year contracts. That is a big part of me not buying.
Agreed. They could make it more affordable by charging less for a shorter term
I think a lot of people that have commented are on the right track. In this case there are several things that really do not benefit members.
- You no longer own a deeded interest which limits resale
- Point can be whatever Disney wants them to be. I don't think Disney needs to keep the points to a specific number if they don't want. even if they did it still makes it far easier for Disney to allocate points for themselves for cash bookings.
- By you buying into basically a membership, Disney has a lot less oversight fromt he state as they do when selling actual property.
I am sure there is more to this but basically this benefits Disney far more than it does DVC members. For me it's a no, I don't think buying a membership is a good idea for the end user, especially at the prices I am sure that Disney will still demand. TO me it's more watering down the product. They took away benefits from resale buyers and continue to do so.
What about people who already own at Riviera? I know this is all speculation but….how would that work?
If you own a deeded DVC membership at Riviera, then you own a fractional deed to the property itself. That portion can never be taken away from you or other members without some form of legal action. Exactly the same as if someone came and tried to take your house. There are a few legal routes, such as foreclosure, but not many.
I think this comes down to what Amy said. These aren’t buildings. They are trailers. If DVC changed the whole program then I think they lose one of their main selling points of being deeded real estate. I don’t think this has to do with the 2042 resorts. Disney can resell those resorts as it gets close for top dollar. In the meantime, they can buy them back cheap as their resale value drops due to short contract duration. They can always rent out the inventory they buy back until they can resell them to the second generation of owners. I would be surprised if this trust expanded beyond the cabins.
Im concerned as a Riviera owner that this will impact my ability to reserve rooms there. Now im glad i have AK and SSR also.
26:32 If you get home resort priority at multiple resorts, I am willing to bet that those points will cost WAAAAYYYY more. I would think that would be Disney's way of explaining to me that the contract I bought has a much cheaper price point so I should not feel chapped about others having multi resort priority.
Thanks!
Thanks so much for the support!
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If Disney could listen to this advice, their stock would be sky high.
ignorance is bliss.. you have no clue why Disney needed to go this route so attacking them to attack is a joke
They use that mantra for rides that are falling part.
That would be wild if they can De-Trust you quickly without a government entity if you fell behind on dues/mortgage. I would consider that predatory lending in those cases if you are signing over something wild in regards to your own rights as a consumer. But I guess in general my belief is the trust is a predatory timeshare product that us hardcore Disney/DVCers would never buy.
Are the cabins not on a permanent foundation? At least where I live you can mortgage a "mobile home" if its placed on a permanent foundation. At that point it just becomes called a manufactured home though here.
I think the biggest functional difference for DVC Members wrt the trust is declaration of units. It sounds like all the cabins are already part of the trust. Prior to this, units were only declared based on sales, which is why inventory at VDH are still very spotty even for owners at 11 months (I own at VDH and could not get a unit for next weekend for the race because there weren't enough declared.)
Off topic a bit ... we toured Riviera over the Holidays, and I have to say, I don't see any attraction. The hotel is incredibly bland and gray, and while there are some nice touches, we didn't click with it at all. While access to the Skyliner is a great perk (that's how we got there, of course), I don't think its anywhere near the level Disney would like us to believe it is.
Does this mean there will be no real estate tax on it each year?
I was wondering why can’t Disney use the same admission / park fast past system the Universal uses??
Can ya get a lawyer who specializes in timeshares and/or real estate on the show? Some of this doesn't make sense to me. Has to be a trust because its a manufactured home - feel like they could tie the deed to the land (own .01% of the land the cabin sits on) to get around that. Would allow them to sell multiple resorts with advanced 11 month window - again this is a self created limitation, they could divide the deeded title across the whatever properties or just change the booking window rules. I dont get this
All organization risks and costs move to the Co-Op members, rather than individually to the real property owners.
Die hard cabin goer here. 17 days at a time, we will be so sad if this doesn’t work out for us.
Putting points from the existing properties in this trust seems like the makings of a class action…
If it goes in the trust and 10 years later, they want to take the property out of the trust, can they do that?
With very few exceptions,,, almost always, getting a time share is a horrible idea.
DVC is no exception.
Disney could create a very different product with this in that it could only last for ten years and the points would sell for much less than deeded property points. Might be a way to bring in people who are unsure about DVC or cant afford it. Wonder how they would determine annual dues? i completely agree that all the different categories is making what used to be a straightforward system too complcated.
Also buying into the trust, the question remains would the restriction be specifically to the cabins or to the trust, because you would be buying into the trust, not into the cabins?
I think this may turn into individual trust across properties in the long run that make agreements to interact and share benefits. This allows them to properly weight property cost, valuation, and popularity. A more flexible market place for them to sell within. Good and bad. This may be a test for the future of course as we look towards 2042 also.
I'm just hoping to not be forced to sell because of bad policies. If I have to compete with this to book at my home resort and I can't get a room at 11 months I'm done.
The individual portions of resorts which have been bought by deeded DVC members cannot legally be relocated away. You open a fractional deed to that property, not Disney. Disney just manages it. That's one of the reasons why buying shares in a trust instead of a deed is a possibly frightening prospect. Fewer protections for members, because they only own shares of the trust instead of the property itself.
The cabins are like disneys version of a trailer park.
Face it, it's to the betterment of Disney. That being said, I know we get a "deed" with DVC, but it's still a lease agreement. You only "own" it for up to 50 years, depending on when you buy into the property. While Club Wyndham may be a "trust", you own it forever, passing it on to your children, and they passing it on to their children forever. The "trust" is more a deed, than the "deed".
Standout post on here, super insightful as to how a ‘deed’ with Disney is still… just a lease at up to 50 years.
Leaseholds are still deeded property. You just do not have absolute ownership or rights to the property. And as a contact, they must legally be limited in term. The US legal system does not accept contracts into perpetuity. This is probably the right call for a timeshare in other to protect everyone specifically by limiting your rights to modify our destroy the property.
I am willing to bet the new DVC sales are thru the floor
They might be deeding the 42 resorts with the cabins to start adapting to the next cycle of sales…
If there’s no deeded real estate interest, are there also no property taxes?
Couldn't we just send someone in for the sales pitch and ask them direct why the change for the cabins?
I don’t understand any of this. I need someone to explain this to me like in dvc for dummies. Or like I’m 10 years old. 😭
Will I be able to stay there for 17 days anymore?
8 month priority
I still don’t get it. You still have an expiration date and you still can go to other DVC sites?
And you can still rent it out
How does that effect your ownership/lease
Is this possibly their "way out" as the various deeded DVC property contracts expire?
I liked Disney before they were owned by private equity and began becoming a real estate arm for private equity
Makes me wonder if this is to kill off resale by driving down the secondary value trapping owners.
Disney buys back points at varying rates. When they buy back a contract, are those points still declared, or would they be able to then put them into the trust? If what they are doing is creating a premium product where you get priority to book anywhere you want, I'm just wondering if they could buy back points at any resort, put them into the trust, and then sell them back at a premium for people who are willing to pay to have that priority. No need to build any new resorts, they would be making money flipping points through the ROFR process.
Or this could be the plan for the DVC resorts that will expire in 42
one benefit for the new owners'family with the trust: your kids, for example, dont have to go through State of Florida probate court to transfer contracts to the new cabins when they die. -- i updated this in a reply comment below
I talked to a Disney Guide today who told me that the deed transfer process wouldnt change, so i cant think of any benefits to "DVC Member" with this new change.
Amy is pretty why do you think I watch these? thanks for trying to clarify some of this. Would all of you guys buy here or not? Ive only stayed there once. We will see what happens
Will this allow DVC to include DISNEY CRUISE LINE?
Can you sell you points under a trust same way you can put current contracts?
So does this being a trust not allow renting your points on DVC RENTAL stores?
I think this could be a way to stop resale as well
So, the Trust is kind of like a middle-man, right? You have the right to "use" the cabin, but you don't actually own a deed to the property. Is that correct?
That’s ridiculous with the pet fee, if I am buying DVC that shouldn’t be extra, the dues better be lower then since you are paying a fee and dog owners should be given full access to all cabins then, is there going to be a trust for the dog owners then? I was interested but now with all this I am not going to buy it right now
I don't think that you will find many that will agree with you. The rest of us should not have OUR money go to clean up after YOUR pet.
@@jaklg7905 I agree and we are dog owners and would expect an extra fee for a clean up after a pet had stayed. And that deep cleaning is necessary in case someone staying after a dog has a medical issue that could lead to serious health consequences.
So Disney will end up being like the ones on Ebay selling for a $100 just to get out of it .
Everyone is talking about “resort deed” I never received a received a resort deed for the Old key West and Grand Floridian
Hey there! You should have received a deed. If you’re not sure where it’s at, they are publicly available documents on the Orange County Comptroller site so you could find yours there.
@@DVCFan thank you for I purchased back in 1992 and again this past year and in both of my transactions I never saw a deed I will call DVC rep regarding the deed
Change the dogs' food, it could stop the gas issue 😊
Putting this together with the recent months’ crackdown of third-party guided tours, here’s what I think it’s all about:
CONTROL
The last few trips I’ve made to the World, I’ve been getting more and more annoyed at social media “influencers” disrupting crowd flow and breaking the magic with their filming. I’m sure that Disney didn’t like so much of their image on-line being shaped by people they couldn’t control.
I’d be willing to bet that the Disney corporation has been grinding their teeth for years as third-party DVC point rentals and sellers have done business outside Disney’s full control. I suppose that first-refusal rights gave them some measure of control, but I’ll bet with wasn’t enough.
Disney keeps spending tons of money on their losing movie/streaming endeavors and using priceeds from DVC sales and theme parks to fund that
Derek is looking roguish with the beard.
I don't know how much the deeding of it means to me because you know this isn't yours as an asset forever anyway. For instance, I thought about buying into the Beach club this year but we would have less than 20 years of "ownership". Granted, I know my kids could have it through its expiration date...So I guess if that changed and my kids could not "inherit" this DVC in a trust, that would change it up a bit for me.
They are legally deeded. They are just deeded as leaseholds instead of fee simple. So you still have deeded ownership of the fractional property, but the rights of that ownership can be restricted. For instance, it can restrict modification or destruction of the improvements (aka buildings) on the property. You probably want this as a timeshare member, as those restrictions protect your investment as much as they limit you. Also, the US legal system does not recognize contracts into perpetuity. So the leasehold agreement must eventually end. That's why every membership ends at the same date, regardless of when you purchase the contract.
It's confusing to an old guy like me... Atleast Amy is pretty.
As a fellow appraiser myself I always suspected Jeff had a real estate related job
They should have just left the FW Cabins alone. 😡
TBH, they should have left the cabins alone and just went ahead with Reflections.
Prediction for 2042 - no more home resorts and ALL resorts can be booked 11 months out. Then they aren’t trying to resale multiple individual resorts at once.
I find it so odd that of all the possible names to title the trust, Disney chose to call it ‘Palmetto’. Palmetto is another name for the cockroach. 😂😮
Living in the Palmetto state (South Carolina), I can say that there is a Palmetto bug (coackroach) but there are also millions of Palmetto trees and bushes. It is a palm plant similar to palm trees. I hope they are going with that motif instead of the bug! :)
People just need to leave their dogs home. Not everyone likes dogs.