Focal Utopia Woofer: What Was The Issue???
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- čas přidán 6. 05. 2022
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#sonusfaber
#boulder
#rotel
#aurender
#krell - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Hi guys, You can now support the channel by doing '"super thanks" comments which will allow you all to do a small donation while your comment gets highlighted and remains at the top of the comments! - Show your support to my efforts by giving me "super thanks" !
I wonder how the Legacy Valor would do in a shootout?
Marten Mingus Quintet 2 looks like an interesting speaker
With such a precise speaker, it would be good to replace both lower woofers on both speakers because the production series differ in characteristics. It is also affected by the age of the material, such as flexible rubber, which affects the qtc w. factor.
This video makes Focal look good for customer service. I bet you this video will up their sales more than any of your other focal related videos. I had the same experience from Genesis when a driver died on my first pair of speakers in the late 90s, when I was in highschool but the internet wasn't what it is now. Back then it was word of mouth or wait for the next audiophile magazine and hope a reviewer ran into the same issue and reported on the companies customer service.
Here's a practical suggestion for you Jay if you ever have to remove or install a heavy driver again. Lay the speaker on its back so the woofer cone is facing the ceiling. You may have to brace it on a couple of chairs so that nothing protruding from the back will be damaged. If the back isn't flat you might have to support it on the sides so it doesn't roll over. Hope that helps.
You are right, manufacturing defects do get through final inspection and some may not show up until a long time after they're in use. Industrial processes can if warranted be implemented to minimize the risk such as ISO 9000, ANSI, and for military hardware CFR. (My father was the quality control manager for a high end electronics firm for 14 years. Their only customers were the US military and NASA.)
Great service from Focal. The most musical speakers that I've ever heard in the last 30 years came always from french manufacturers (no exception). Of course, this is highly subjective as always. 🙂
Amps too. The higher end YBA gear was excellent
Manufacturing defects happen, the fact that a defect happens is not a problem. How the company does (or does not) handle it is the problem. Glad to see that Focal took care of you. I've needed service on my Watt/Puppy 6's twice and Wilson has been great both times, now that I'm shopping to replace them (or was before the stock market tanked) that level of service means a lot.
At this price point I would expect nothing less than perfection.
I'll probably never be able to afford components of this caliber but I sure like watch (and hearing) your journey. Thanks Jay.
Thank you Jeff
Good job the way Focal handled it. This can happen with any man made device, expensive cars, watches, motorcycles and expensive custom from the ground built homes, all can have problems.
Great video Jay! Thanks for posting.
Secret speaker….ROCKPORT! 😎
Good corrective wake up call, much appreciated 👍
Thank you
The cutting is going great bro, keep up the good work. I "bulked" from 2020-2022 and now I really gotta put in the work!
Thanks bro
@@jaysaudiolab Yes. ! You look much better ! Kudos !
I have found in my experience most speakers struggle with bass I understand fully have popped lots of drivers with bass at lots of price points that's why it's called killer bass well said jay 👍👍
Thanks Kurt
Thanks so much for your help
Great video Jay!
Right on Jay 👍
Jay
Appreciate your openess.
Looking forward to your new speaker and shootout
Coming soon
Looking forward to the comparison Jay , love your channel !
Thank you
@@jaysaudiolab When do your Sonus Faber Liliums arrive? (that's my guess)
it's quite common. usually the manufacturer can check if it's failure or abuse when u send them back
I love this guy, he's 100% real
Thanks man
First time I 👍🏻 your this video
This can happen with any passive speaker .( at any price)
80-82 dB is not the reason for that - it’s not that loud .
I like it that you give credit to the manufacturer.
Always
The fewer speakers are produced the higher is the risk of getting problems because there is less data avalable to correct any problem.
I own a lot of Focal products (Focal in my car, Shape 40's for my desktop, headphones include Bathys, Elegia, Clear & Celestee) fortunately no issues so far. If something does happen great to know Focal will stand behind their product.
I really enjoy your content!!!
Next speakers will be Rockport - Cygnus😉
man that's some nice eye candy u have in the back ground nice video by the way.
Great Jay! 👍
Can’t wait to hear the next speakers.
Soon!
Impressive to hear good things about Focal service!
Focal does build all their speakers by hand in France...no doubt they quickly test them before they sell them but hand built can easily have quality control issues.
900 watts shouldn't blow those focals, even if it was double that power the sub should be fine...it's too little power on a sub that usually takes it out because people keep turning it up till the signal is distorted. More power means you don't have to crank it to get the volume you desire.
On the damaged sub look at the electrical leads going across the spider to the voice coil, how do they compare in color (dark or light) to the new sub's leads? If they are the same, then check to see if the voice coil is rubbing the magnets from not being centered properly during being assembled/built...just stroke the sub top to bottom and listen for a rub or contact.
Dear Jay, I really like your work and honesty. Thanks a lot for your engagement. Will the next speakers be the SF aidas? Kind regards
Stay tuned for more !
Process of elimination! Transparency! Situation resolved! Thanks for sharing!
Good video Jay. Agree with you issues with speakers happen more frequently than what people think. I was using Wilson Audio (WP8 and then Alexia) and then I stopped using this brand because I was fed up to replace their transistors on a regular basis... Some Power Amps also have the same issue they break easily. It's maybe like racing cars very performing but easily broken I don't know.... After many years I have noticed that Japanese brands tend to be more reliable than others
Stenheim Audio Reference Ultime Two speakers would be a great speaker to try out !
If you work in audiophile industry, you will see often every gear will break regardless of price tag. After sale service is very important.
I can play literally anything in my speakers with tons of bass and never ever have an issue. I am using Legacy Focus se. Bottom end to die for. Every speaker from Legacy is personally sound "extensively to the knoll of the speakers" checked and gone through extensive testing that the owner himself listens to and signs off on before each speaker is finally considered perfect sent to the customer. Each speaker is sonically matched to the other speaker a perfectly as possible. In other words it is not just two exact model speakers but they are literally married sonically through adjustments and extensive sound checks before shipping to the customer.
Interesting
I have the Coda no. 8 and CB coming and was looking at Legacy for a speaker upgrade. I was told they match well. No where to listen 1st though :/
"Because the Boulder 3060 ...... 900 watts Class A..." I had to rewind the video to make sure I heard that correctly. Woof. Kudos to Focal for working with you, great upload.
They are a class act !
Also ; I say - Master Blaster! (as in "have you bought the speakers or have speakers bought you?)
Jay: Great video. But when are you going to demonstrate the tone controls on the Focal's?
Jay, it is great to hear your candid comments! Congrats!
Let me suggest a few speakers for you to try:
Gryphon Trident II
YG Sonja XV mini
Rockport Lyra
Steinheim Reference Ultime 2
Borrensen 05 silver supreme
Soon !
I'm frankly stunned that the Maestro EVO woofer is not one of the "flower power" model.
Excited to learn about the forthcoming shootout. Any other hints? Have you had the brand in-house before? I remember your Scala Evo vs DAW a few years ago. It is what drew me to your channel.
Can't give it away James lol
Does it make sense for us to ask/inquire privately about the previous speakers you had issues with if reliability is an important purchase criterion? Also, in the past I had a very used pair of Thiel speakers, had an issue with a tweeter, and they sent me a new tweeter for free.. RIP Jim Thiel!
Living the dream .
Great talking to you at axpona about the focal’s. I wish you would bi-amp the speakers since they were actually designed for this. Here in Dallas many people are doing this and the speakers change a lot to the better. A lot better !!!!!!
One day i might
@@jaysaudiolab Yep, just need ANOTHER 3060! ha
Bi-Amp with some Bryston amps
Jay I like your show. I hope you’re a gentle giant because you look like someone I would never want to get in a brawl with. That’s why I wear a good pair of Nikes so I can run fast. 😊
Hahahaha 🤣
You should try a pair Legacy Audio Valor ($86k)
Good job Focal
Always the most sensitive part of any speaker @ any price = Blown-Fired Voice-Coil..
They should have thrown a case or a bottle of whiskey too . Lol
Customer service goes along way.
Bass I love you, hold my Orion HCCA with 4" exclusion
Tell him again...... That long quiet excursion caught that ass that's all lol. 💪
Parts go bad! Not a huge mystery! Would the customer service have been the same if it didn't belong to Jay? Just curious.
It's it would be
Might be just my 6" sub of my desktop system. But I didn't find the song so ridiculously bass heavy that playing it at normal levels would be damaging. Definitely harder hitting songs out there for bass. But another song for my archive!
I own focal. They don’t like to be pushed with heavy bass. The excursion will damage them. From the least expensive Focal to yours. I don’t know why they do that. I love my Focals.
Life gets in the way and isn’t always perfect. A faulty driver could happen to absolutely any company at any price and to anyone. QC doesn’t necessarily guarantee zero problems ever. That’s what customer support is for. This could’ve happened to anyone.
Agreed
I understand jay what u mean I have magico m3 lost woofer and when I took it off I found that the wires disconnected due to poor attached to the woofer…..human error that what magico told me.
This Bass track now VOIDS Focal's warranty. 😢
Yesterday died Vladimir Lamm, Main designer from Lamm Industries. Sad to hear.
Whhen you are measuring sound level witch scale are you using A,B or C?
Jay, you have to remove the plastic wrap on those Maestro Evos. They have a profound effect in terms of refinement, tonality and naturalness of the sound of the speakers. Ditto for the even thicker/coarser wraps on Wilsons. You havent heard the true sound of “wrapped” speakers yet. We’ve been selling Focal for ages so I know this. We also carry a lot of brands and Focal drivers can actually withstand more abuse than most but yes you are correct … these are human made stuff after all and occasionally very rarely … a lemon slips past the withering glare of the QC people. In case you are wondering, Ive powered the Maestro Variants (as well as Stellas) with up to 1000W of power in places much bigger (100-200sqm) than usual so they can take a lot more power than most speakers … especially the brands (which u have owned) which I bottom out easily.
Hmmm now you are making me want to do that !
@@jaysaudiolab Jay, I torture my Stella at 115db and 121.3db peaks with orchestras, Lorn (this producer loves 20hz notes), organ music, etc... Dont worry for ur Maestros.
TAD Reference One TX sounds like an interesting speaker
You must be getting the Sonus Faber Lilium !!! that’s what I’m betting on.
Maybe Dynaudio, heard they killed it at Axpona
Of course it’s a totally different price but I bought new kef lsx2 speakers which were flawed out of the box. Both woofers rattled loud. Returned them, I will get my money back but the process unfortunately was very slow. Thought it must have been bad luck with such quality speakers. Now u have had an issue with such quality speakers 😅
I spy an acoustic sounds LP box... When are you getting a turntable Jay 😀
Lol
Is turntable coming to Jay lab ?
Don't get Jay started on LP playback! He will have to buy a TechDas Air Force 1 with the SAT arm ($110K + $30K) and a $10K cartridge!
I was hoping the new speakers would be Alsyvox, but unfortunately not.
Doesn't sound like the speakers you are describing getting, but was just checking out the PMC FACT FENESTRIA. Have you heard these Jay? Looks interesting
I wonder how the Legacy Audio Valor would do in a shootout?
Jay,I'm still waiting for the krell k300i,what gives bro?
Coming man.
Yah! New speakers!!
The term you are looking for is- phase, the drivers moving in time or not.
Definitely the Cygnus speakers from Rockport.
Hi Jay, don't want to put a damper in your excitement with Focal's Service. Did you ask the Factory if the new driver they sent is a exact match to the old one? It is my understanding that TOLT drivers are matching sets. It is possible there are markings on the old driver to tell that Factory which driver you got and there was no need to ship the other good driver back to the Factory.
I enjoy watching your reviews. Thanks Jay!
They don't do such thing as matching drivers.
A.T.C SPEAKERS ARE CLASS
Do high end speakers hold value well ?
PLEASE LIKE THE VIDEO!
Why do share the focal issues you've experienced, but choose to go nameless for the other set of speakers. What is the distinction?
@@OhMyGodMuffins no reason
@@jaysaudiolab
Appreciate if you share the issues with other speakers as well so that we are educated and aware you need not go to depth but provide us the sufficient info.
Thnx
*❌ Blast That ghetto Blaster 😎👍‼️* _JUST KIDDING_ *Some How I think you’re just Playing Us All , but then again I Don’t Know , But I Still Watch , I’m I being Played Jay) 👈🥺❌ hope not*
Hi Jay, sorry to tell you but if you have fatigue above 82 dBs on average you haven't heard the real speakers yet. Try any of the reference or homage series of Sonus Faber speakers and you will see how pleasing the music can sound even at 95+ dBs SPL.
It's more the level than the speakers. The ear has a protective mechanism above certain volumes.
I've heard a sonus Fabre before and I'm sure I'd get fatigue playing above 80dB or so.
@@RennieAsh I do own SF speakers for more than 3 years and have been listening to 90 dBs average and 100+ peaks. Never ever have experienced any fatigue. If you attend live symphony orchestra note that the first row can have peaks of 100+ dBs. That is not fatigue me either
@@RennieAsh yep you're correct
@@RennieAsh Fatigue above 80db??? You have a serious problem with distortion. It may not be audible but your ear picks it up. I have not felt fatigue in live orchestras at more than 110db and neither in my Focal Stella with a DAD amplifier of 2200w @ 4 Ohms. What's more, sometimes I need to have my SPL meter because I can go too high without realizing it. And it's not just me, anyone who has heard my system wants to turn up the volume more just for fun.
@@jaysaudiolab Fatigue above 80db??? You have a serious problem with distortion. It may not be audible but your ear picks it up. I have not felt fatigue in live orchestras at more than 100db and neither in my Focal Stella with a DAD amplifier of 2200w @ 4 Ohms. What's more, sometimes I need to have my SPL meter because I can go too high without realizing it. And it's not just me, anyone who has heard my system wants to turn up the volume more just for fun.
…especially in these high price spheres MSRP doesn’t reflect the used material and labor in any kind of way …any more. These prices nowadays a lot of manufacturers ask for is just ‚positioning in the range‘ …they don’t wanna stay behind the contenders in the market.
If a reputable speaker company nowadays doesn’t offer a model at $£€ 200k …it’s no longer reputable. Just ridiculous times! Sick world!
Thx Jay!
Thanks 🙏
This
I agree! Some drivers, a pair of x-overs and a pair of enclosures. No way can these prices be justified! These pricey speakers are not going on a NASA moon mission! These speakers are only for the millionaires to adorn their mansions with!
Yes, I too could have easily bought a pair of $87K Focals a few years back when I was flush with cash!
@@robertjermantowicz8619 But you didn’t…because you looked at those speakers and said to yourself:
NEVER in this world can these be worth that kind of money, right?!
Playing Bass I love you on an audiophile system is like putting ketchup to a 300$ meal at the restaurant. That song is meant for car audio, so as Jay is but never admitted it as he always goes to bigger amps and bigger speakers thinking more power is better sound and more bass is better. It is not, in fact the purest sounding amplifiers are the low wattage simple ones with short signal path.
For reference, 80 - 82db average at what distance?
10ft
If the problem was in the crossover, the woofer would have not moved at all.
Also, the change that you have a problem with a passive crossover, is extremely small, because of the nature of the crossover component.
Not mad but I would love to see you make a happy video
I'm afraid the only way you're going to find your perfect system is for you to become a vampire and continue your search for another few hundred years.
Thank you for posting your experience with this amazing speaker!
You have to be careful with that bass I love you song. Some woofers will really flop with the low low frequency. I always visually check what the limit is.
Pound 20.7s, one year later, no problems 😊
no it's not a crossover issues it's a manufacturing defect, with the connecting leads what you showed on the picture.
you have to make sure you don't drive any speaker above it's rating otherwise cause damage
check with a multimeter if you're not sure from your amplifier v /i
will give you the wattage
they should have sent you two drivers really or got you to test the other driver doesn't sound like they do matching not good only if they tested your old one first when you sent it back?
I'm thinking maybe b&w 801 d4 or sf IL cremonese 🤔 Excited on your comparison jay. Good work!
Thank you
I live 5 minutes from the distribution center :)
we are ready for the shootout ........
Defects can always happen, and just like with cars, it can actually happen faster on higher end cars than your average Toyota.
That doesn’t mean that the Toyota is the better car on any performance level. 😉
How every brand deals with it is the most important thing for the customer, and I’d say that Focal was great here.
That being said, that’s also supposed to be the expectation for a product like this, because that’s part of their price. 😉
I’m sure that not all manufacturers would give you the same service in this price range, but those are the ones that are doing it wrong.
It’s not about having a problem, it’s how it is solved that really matters.
Ok
Hey Jay, try this song out on your system: Luminol by Meat Beat Manifesto
Jay, keep pumping iron - a 30 lb woof is no match for those massive biceps and triceps. How much weight can you press? Interesting to find out what exactly went haywire with the bass woofer? Sorry I missed you at Axpona 2022!
I think i know what happened.
The driver on the left side of my scala moves slightly more than the right.Is that a problem?
Call focal
All 4 woofers moved at the same time *pulses hands* like this.
Ohhhh yeah... love that deep ear bass massage. I bet that's exactly what those Focal drivers do to your ears!
Try yj acoustics
Should be in movies 🎬
Hahaha
Sonus Faber Lilium ?
Borresen 03 ?
Eighty two Db is in fact pretty loud.
Stay away from that Telarc CD of the 1812 Overture with the cannon blasts!
Uaw...let's listen to the new speaker...
Soon
Jay you funny losing some weight. Martens speakers! I know not them but it would be a great match. Ok keep us waiting. Lol
😂