Poor Mans Fiberglass PMF Tutorial, Tips to get PERFECT Corners! Foamie, Vespa Teardrop
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- čas přidán 26. 08. 2024
- This is part of a series of video for this Micro Vespa Teardrop Trailer! This is a step by step tutorial for Poor Mans Fiberglass PMF. I built this with my friend, Tom, from "The Tiny Side of Tiny"
Check out the other videos here:
Full Build Time Lapse: • Micro Foamie Vespa Tea...
Vespa Teardrop Trailer Tour: • Micro Teardrop Trailer...
Best Adhesive for Foamie: • NOT Gorilla Glue! Watc...
Check out my other trailers!
Teardrop Trailer PMF Tour: • Home Built Teardrop Ca...
Cargo Trailer PMF: • Poor Man's Fiberglass ...
Products used:
Titebond II (Wood Glue): amzn.to/3y3TgX9
Canvas Drop Clothes: amzn.to/3JVCMGr
Smooth Roller Covers: amzn.to/33jSzhl
Roller Extension: amzn.to/3zHXipx
Follow Tom's Adventures in the trailer: / @thetinysideoftiny7625
As an Amazon Associate I may earn a small commission from qualifying purchases.
Your PMF technique is the definitive method. Lots of videos out there demonstrating awful end result. A stand alone PMF how to series would help lots of folks out there. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you so much!
Do you think using Foam Fusion instead of tight bond, would change the canvas adhesion much?
Serious ASMR watching you iron those edges down (pleats smaller and smaller). Love this!
Thank you! It is satisfying to do!
@@thelwood I use it often in my sewing. I can be seriously OCD about it, or rush through it either way Lol
Back in the 30s, Rosco Turner, a very famous air racing pilot used this same technique on his 300 mph race planes-however they were using Grade A cotton. Kudos to you for keeping this skill set alive!
Thank you!
I’m almost sold on the idea of poor man’s fiberglass. It will give me the ability to make my first small camper.
Titebond 2 is only water resistant where as Titebond 3 is actually waterproof and lays down just as well as Titebond 2. It is just a bit thicker and the first coat (before you lay the cloth) can be deluted with as much as 50% water, but I go with only 1/3 water and 2/3 glue.
Thank you for the informative response! Perhaps if I watered it down some I would like the way it rolls out better. I use TB3 for somethings, for PMF the multiple paint layers are what really seals it up. My 7 year old trailer is still perfect looking. But perhaps I will try TB3 watered down so I can get a nice thin layer like TB2. :) cheers!
Could I mix primer with the glue?
Great video Lucy. You are truly the master of PMF. I've never seen it done better! Been sending CZcamsr's your way to view the build videos :)
This was one of the very best collaborations I've ever done...thank you for everything my friend :)
Thank you Tom! It was a blast!
Excellent! Thanks for the tutorial and showing the details. I am starting a project using the PMFG on a truck camper inspired by your trailer video. Thanks for taking the time to show us how it's done.
Thank you! I am sure yours will be beautiful!
Excellent Lucy, inspiring to see how well the PMF turned out and the clear detail on how to apply, glue and paint to get a smooth finish, inclusive of the preparation of washing and pre-ironing tips. Awesome work on the edge, pressing out the pleats to zero, I didn't know that could be achieved.
Thank you so much!
My biggest error I did was stretch the cloth lol you are so right about not stretching the cloth it causes air pockets but still no failures ... I did use a stiff paint brush & dabbed the cloth tapping it with the stiff bristles of the brush like folks do with actual fiber-glassing the cloth to get out air bubbles & tight places .. I seen you used a iron .. way cool ! I'll have to use that method !
I am happy yours still worked out well! And good idea with the paint brush!
Not stretching it tight is counterintuitive I think. If I hadn’t seen this, I would be pulling it tight.
Best explanation of the process I have seen. Thank you.
You are welcome! Thank you!
I just found this video. What a cool build and what a great video. I think this is the most comprehensive video I've seen on Poor Man's fiberglass and how to apply it. Thank you.
Thank you!
Very good tutorial. As for the strength of PMF, I have a crazy story. I built a teardrop with a sandwich of luan on the inside with 3 layers of 3/4" foam and PMF on the outside. I had the unfortunate luck of being jarred awake one night while camping on the beach. I was awoken when a truck side swiped my trailer. Luckily, the only damage was paint transfer from the truck and my rear rack was a bit bent. I feel pretty fortunate to come out unscathed. I am not sure how the trailer would have faired if it was plywood sides.
Wow!! That is amazing!!
Thank you for sharing it!
i loved it gunna build one my self now lol or buy one for a 60 day adventure lol
You make it look so easy;)
Thank you!
Very interesting tutorial!
Starting in the 80s, I had a property management business taking care of large estates on the ocean on Jupiter Island in Hobe Sound, FL. One of my places had a huge deck over the beach looking out at the ocean that was covered with PMF, there were about 1" overlaps at 8' widths with a double row of brass tacks spaced every 1/2" holding the seams tight, I think that was the key to the long life, not letting any separation get started. Every couple of years I would paint it but it just lasted and lasted in all the sun and salt air on the beach! The house was originally built in the 40s and I moved on after 25 years in the mid-2000s. I am sure it is still there if the place has been properly maintained, amazing stuff!
I don't think fiberglass would have lasted near as long as it would have separated from the wood and developed blisters, the canvas and paint allowed the covering to expand and contract a little with the seasonal changes. I believe it was the best choice for covering a large deck like that.
That is awesome! It is really good stuff when properly applied and maintained!
I’m trying to picture a deck like that, as I don’t have any reference. Our decks are always made out of wood slats here. Was this pmf covering wood sheets? How water drain off it? What colour was it? Thanks
@@Tonisuperfly The place was built by a millionaire in the 1940's, I don't know what the actual decking material was but I did have to replace one of the stairways to the beach and it was made of teak so I suspect the decking was also made of teak. the deck had a slight grade to it, when the large picture windows were washed the water ran off the outer edge. In the 25 years I took care of the place all I ever did was clean and paint it every 1 or 2 years, the edge where it connected to the house was flashed with copper flashing like any roof situation. It was painted gray.
@@samTollefson excellent. Thanks for your description. Your memory is outstanding!
@@Tonisuperfly Thank You. After thinking about it, there is something I would like to add. The decking, I am positive, was tongue and groove planks not the gaped decking boards we think about today, as there was no separation apparent anywhere. The deck would have been sealed and a type of glue to adhere the canvas to the deck, it would not have been hide glue as it gets hard and brittle over time. I wish I knew the exact method used but I believe it would be very much like the PMF method people have been resurrecting today.
This is the best PMF video. Others don't compare to yours. Thanks!
Thank you!!
Im thinking of using this technique on a cedar strip planked boat, bottom only. Now I have to get the paint off it first ! Great videos ,Thanks !
Sounds like a great project!
How about a cycling camper trailer? I like the use of the PMF, nice job
Thank you! This could definitely be pretty easily modified down to a cycle trailer 😃
You are amazing probably one of the best videos I've seen in diy not to mention a fascinating trick to a trending trade. Valuable information instructed so generously and effectively I'm seriously just blown away.good work I'm not a cridic I'm just seriously impressed
Thank you so much!
Thank you thank you thank you!!! I just bought a homemade teardrop trailer and am going to try this pmf technique to weatherproof it for my move to a state with much more inclement weather than where i am now in nebraska! Love your videos and style🙏🏼happy trails!
Thank you so much!
I was having a hard time finding a good video like this, thank you!!!
Thank you! I am happy it was helpful!
Very nice, great tips. Some of the best PMF work I’ve seen!
Thank you! I have been really happy with PMF on my trailers :)
Thanks. I need to learn more about PMF and this has been very helpful.
You are very welcome, I hope you have fun making something with it!
What an amazing job you did
Thank you!
Great looking finish!! I am about to skin my TD this next week and will use your technique. Thank you for posting. BTW, I also like your lazy susan stereo in your TD...I incorporated one into my build; very clever. Thanks for great videos!
Thanks Dan! I am so happy you used the lazy Susan!!
I love Vespa, and in combo with Teardrop Camper it's terrific! I will buy immediately.
Thank you!
Wow .. thanks for sharing your method .. it was great to watch your process ! I used wood glue over thin skin 1/8 plywood like you did .. but I used cotton bed sheet that worked out great for my project . I did however use the wood glue thinned down to saturate the outer cloth once glued to plywood instead of reduced paint & after it wasn't tacky I introduced the latex paint layered the coats on to build up the finish I was looking for .. with that thin cotton bed sheet I brought at the second hand store it came out great just like a air plane cloth & doped sanded & finished with paint ! It's amazing how will it's holding up exposed now over two years to Florida weather extreme hot sun & extreme rain ..lol I sure was surprised how well it's doing !
That's awesome and sounds like a solid process! Thanks for sharing your technique!
You both should be building cabinetry on spaceships.great video. Thank you. You're awesome.
Thank you so much!
Wooooow!!! You did an amazing job! You have inspired me so much. Thank you!
Thank you so much!
Wow, very impressed. Great visual and verbal instructions. I really like the method too.
Thank you!
You are a genius! Great job!
Thank you!
I keep seeing people applying a thick layer of glue to the canvas afterwards. I’m with you on letting the paint absorb in rather than just paint sitting on glue
I can see many bikers wanting one, like me!!😊 This would be an awesome addition to my motorcycling adventures!!! You should start a biz. I can see it becoming a smash hit, and a nice small biz.
Thank you!
very cool...I am contemplating a build for my recumbent electric trike I mod'd to do some camping.
Thank you! That would be very cool!
A recommendation for pulling your pleats is a mini set of needle nose pliers. A slight twist and tug works really well, especially if the material is wetted out. Good work . I’m looking at building a light weight trailer for a drag and drive setup , I will probably be going the same approach. Good job !
Thank you! Great tip!
great techniques and tips, you're a true maker! Nice work.
Thank you!
Really well explained Lucy. I have no plans to attempt something like this but feel well informed to do so should I try. Thank you. 👍
Thanks Graham! I am very ready to be back to working with lumber! Fabric does not cooperate well 😂
Exterior latex paint is made to weather away like chalk over time in order to keep the exterior of a house looking fresh. You might consider interior gloss bathroom paint. It is much harder and less water permeable.
Interesting idea! I would be interested to run trials of both!
The toughest test is time. Interesting idea though.
great tutorial! like all the details you point out
I gotta say, you are awesome!
Thank you!
Thank you, for your time 👍👍👍💯🙏
Very informative and very cool! Thanks for the insight and instructions. 👍
Thanks! Happy it was helpful!
Great video! Lots of tips and tricks to help with my own build!
This is such a great video as I am reading different comments on whether the PMF can create a nice finish or not. You really show the practical details needed to make it work. I was wondering if you have tried using a paint sprayer, the type that does not need a separate compressor. I was going to experiment this but thought you might have tried or know others who did. I am making a larger foamy so any time savings on the painting would be wonderful. thank you again!
Thank you! I have not tried a sprayer but it should work pretty well
I'm so impressed with your work!!!that turned out amazing
Thank you!
great video, the iron was new to me, and you made it look easy
Thank you!
Thanx you showed me more than other vids
Beautiful job on those edges!
Thank you!
Indoor or exterior paint works fine for first few coats... you can also use paint instead of the glue... basically does the same job...
I love it. Beautiful!
Thank you!
Wow this is such a HUGE inspiration for me, I just subscribed! I’m wanting to do something like this for a dual sport motorcycle. Wish you had building plans for this
❤❤❤
Thank you!!
You and your friend have inspired me. I have been looking for a trailer for me and the dogs to travel in on my CTX1300. Now I want to build a foamy like this. I would like to know how you attached the floor and some basic dimensions of this trailer. I look forward to following you further projects. This has been very enlightening for me.
Thanks! The base trailer is 72"×40". The wood for the floor was attached with construction adhesive and screws and then carpet adhesive was used for under the carpet.
Very informative thanks. I am building my own modular trailer and am thinking of using the same technique. One concern I have is how to secure hinges (I will have a few because its modular) to the foam/glue/canvas body? I have some hinges that do carry a bit more weight than a door. Did you bolt through with the hinges or simply screw them on? Would you recommend additional trim work to better fasten the hinges? What has been your experience? Any info would be much appreciated.
I have a Suzuki sidekick that only allows me to pull 1000 lbs max. I’m hoping to make a slightly larger version of this
So many questions. On other how-to videos they apply a layer of glue to the outside of the canvas, then move to putting on the paint. You move directly to paint on the canvas. I suspect the glue layer to be somewhat hydroscopic (soaks in moisture from humidity), but I'm curious why the difference between methods. I'm also curious about your cure schedules for glue and thinned paints. Any guidance?
I have seen people use glue over the canvas. I have done 3 trailers with the more "original " pmf (or what i can seem to find of it anyway) of water diluted paint. The diluted layers really absorb deeply into the canvas. The areas where I have had too much glue and it seeped through the canvas were harder to get the paint to really adhere to. 1 of my trailers has been outside for several years and it is still in perfect shape. You could do trials of both techniques side by side to see which you like better. My concern with the glue method would be sanding off the paint in between coats (if you are looking for a nice smooth surface) . Thanks for your question!
LOVE TO HAVE PLANS FOR THIS TRAILER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you! There are no formal plans since we were pretty much figuring it out as we went :)
You can make an easier camper tear drops are harder you could go with a square back no curves. Kinda like runaway campers just don't copy theirs. 73
Your camper looks great! Some recommend glue below and above canvas. Did you apply second coat of glue? Once again, your project looks great.
Thank you for clarifying that I need to wash and dry the canvas… do I do a straight water wash or is okay to use laundry detergent?
I would consider tractor paint it is oil based waterproof an enamel and expensive but doesn't come in as many colors but would likely last 50+ years
thank you.
Wow, I've watched a ton of PMF videos and tutorials, this one is getting saved! Still in the planning stages on mine, but is there a certain weight canvas you prefer?
Thank you! I use the 8oz drop clothes from home depot
just came across this. the PMF coating looks great, the whole trailer looks great. Do you water down the glue as well? and how many coats of paint did you end up using ? also, what are your thoughts on using bed sheets for the cloth?
I don't water down the glue. I do 50/50 coat a 75/25 coat and 3 full coats sand between. Bed sheets will work, but I like the thick protection from the canvas. Happy building!
Wow! That’s awesome work!!!! Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Obviously, just discovered your channel and the video is close to a year old, how is it holding up?
I love the foam idea and am curious about how strong it is with the PMF . Thank you!
Thank you! It is holding up really well!
This is so cute! My booger would love to have one :)
Thank you!
Where did you get your teardrop trailer pattern? Thank you
Sorry to keep asking questions , how many 50/50 coats and how many 25/75 coats of paint? I'm hoping to start the paint process in 2 days and want everything right.
One of each is sufficient 😃
@@thelwood Thankyou
Buen trabajo, me gustaría uno felicidades 😊
Thank you!
100 years ago this is how most aircraft were made, minus the foam. A tubular steel frame was covered in cotton and painted with a flexible paint called dope. The base layer had aluminum powder. The thought was it would protect the cotton from sunlight. Then the final coats were the color. The dope had the added feature of shrinking when it dried so it removed any minor imperfections. Unfortunately, even with all the precautions cotton didn’t hold up well to the elements. Also the dope was made with nitrocellulose which is extremely flammable.
A few years later someone figured out that Dacron lasted a lot longer and didn’t require that dangerous dope. Any imperfections could be taken out with a heat gun.
The final evolution in the cloth covered airplane was to use fiberglass 😂. It was expensive and somewhat heavy but it would last the life of the plane. In fact it’s major drawback was the parts of the plane that normally got inspected during a recover job were now hidden permanently 😮
Anyway, I thought you would find this interesting. Thanks for these great videos! You are giving me ideas😅
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing :)
Fantastic video and your attention to detail is great! Can I ask you: Do you let the Titebond dry at all before draping the canvas upon the build and do you go straight to it? I'm trying to plan how much working time I'll have, and what size of sections I should be working with. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and skill!
I apply the canvas right after I apply the glue!
Uhh titebond lll has a longer working time but ll is fine! Finish with outdoor latex paint and it will last and last!
Yes it will! I prefer the consistency of TBII for rolling it on :)
looking good...a project I need to try...wondering what gage aluminum tubeing was used?
Hi there, I have the budget for epoxy fiberglass on my next project but I was wondering about the maintenance with PMF. I will be using it mainly in the winter and the roads and salt have me concerned about wear. I have been wanting to try it out as its nicer in the shop and I dont need a mask.
The low fume application is what appeals to me too. My PMF trailers haven't required any maintenance, but I do not have to worry about salt here in Arizona. You might be best served by epoxy fiberglass! I loved in Minnesota so I knew how fast salt can eat through anything!
where can I get patterns for sides, windows, door ect. I wan to make one that looks like a cabin car trailer for my scooter
Tom may be willing to share his files with you. However, I suggest the outer grid be enlarged so the roof can go on the top instead of between the walls. These were already cnc before all design elements had been confirmed. Happy building!
fantastic
Thanks!
That all looks amazing. The work you do to get the cotton flat is awesome. Have you tried any other materials besides cotton? I am wanting to make interior foam a little more durable, and cotton seems like overkill just for that. Anyway, good job!
I haven't tried anything else, but bed sheets should work well for that!
Thank you. Some of the links don't work anymore. Any updates on fabric, and roller covers?
Hi Lucy thank you for sharing this very informative video. have you seen any signs of peeling or water damage? We just finished the frame work for our truck bed camper and we’re leaning towards this method. Any advise would be great!
Thank you! I haven't had any issues with the 3 trailers I have used this technique on. Just make sure there is adequate glue at the seams. And apply several coats of paint! :)
Thanks for your excellent tutorial. How have been your experiences in the long term concerning the resistance against solvents? Does the PMF layer prevent accidental exposure, for example at gas stations, from diffusing through to the XPS, and therefore damage?
Thanks, and best wishes.
Thank you! The PMF has held up really great on my trailers. However, they have had low exposure to solvents. That is an excellent question. Airplanes used to be coated in it. I also live in the desert so I don't have salted roads and stuff to deal with. Sorry that I don't have more definitive answers to that great question
@@thelwoodThanks. I'll report what I find out.
I was asking because I temporarily placed a 5-inch thick in front of a broken glass balcony door. Obviously, just a little gas from the double window was enough to melt a dent. Even that thick XPS plate due to that bowed in the opposite direction.
@@pamojja wow!
At the beginning of the video before you added the canvas to the top you taped some trim down. What is that trim? I did look through comments to see if you already answered this but I didn’t see it.
Never mind. I rewatched the video. I guess I missed that part. Sorry. 1/8 Baltic birch
Real cool!
Thank you!
what if you use epoxy resin instead of paint?
Nice work do think this is easier than using epoxy and real fiberglass? I worked with epoxy but its very expensive . Just wondering since you have done both? TY
Hello again. Can you confirm couple things please. You coat the foam/ply in 1 good coat of tight bond 2 with smooth roller . It's only 1 coat? And isnt watered down? Then your first coat of paint is 50/50 2nd 75/25 top 3 coats straight water based exterior paint? Thanks again.
Yes, that is all accurate
Parabéns pelo belíssimo trabalho. Que produto é esse que você passa no trayler ? Também gostaria de saber que tecido foi usado ?
Thanks for watching! I used titebond II for the glue, 8 oz canvas drop clothes and then 50/50 water to paint, then 25/75 water to paint then 3 coats of 100% exterior paint.
Good job! Greetings from Holland. Please can you tell what type of insulation foam panels you used to build up this nice little caravans? I will appreciate it if you could tell me the name or type.
@@aghab5671 thank you! We used FOAMULAR NGX F-150 1 in. x 4 ft. x 8 ft. SSE R-5 XPS Rigid Foam Board Insulation
@@thelwood thanks alot dear, appreciate much your cooperation and honest information. Great job you are doing ✌️✌️✌️😊
Hey! This is incredible - makes so much sense! I have just Titebond 2’d the canvas on to my camping trailer build and am going to go and buy the paint soon. What brand of exterior paints did you use? I’m in the UK and everything here is labeled as “fence paint”, “masonry paint”, “Outdoor furniture paint” or “Decking paint”!
Curious to know the brands you used to see if I can find an equivalent over here!
Thanks again!
Thank you! We used behr paint. I guess outdoor furniture paint would probably be the same
Wow never seen it done better! 👍 Whats your tool of choice for scoring the foam? I've heard a wire dog brush works well 🤔
Just saw another comment about wall paper tool and then sanding block! 👍
@@JonnyDIYthank you! yes! The sanding block was awesome! The wall paper tool also worked well!
Has anyone thought of applying Flex Seal as the final coat once paint is done? Is it needed?
Awesome Tutorial Lucy! Was just wondering if you let the glue dry overnight before you add the 50:50 paint water mix or right after you iron down the glue and canvas ?
Yes I let the glue dry overnight:)
How rigid is the trailer after applying the PMF (especially after the kerfing)? I'm going to start a project and I'm wondering how much extra bracing I'm going to need.
Hi Dante, the sides without the kerfing are very strong. For the roof it definitely needed the wooden dowels as spars to help strengthen it. If it were going to have to withstand snow on the roof, I would also put 1/8 baltic birch over the top. Here in Arizona that isn't an issue. The sides were cnc cut before I had input on the design of them, the area by the door was very thin... only an inch of foam above the door! So there wasn't room for wooden dowels there. To strengthen that part I actually put 1/2" x 1/16" aluminum bar right into the kerfs on each side of vent using exopy. That added a lot of strength!
Any benefit to using primer as your first coat? Got a can of exterior water based primer I’d like to use up
I don't know if their is a benefit, but certainly no harm in using primer!
Any pointers on the canvas? Name brand? Thread count? Source? This is a great video!
Thank you! I used the canvas drop cloths from home depot, but any 8 or 10 oz cloth work really well. Everbuilt is the brand at home depot. I have only had one from home depot that had a seam so I couldn't use it. Amazon sells seamless ones, so then you could avoid this possibility. This is a link for those amzn.to/3dInolq they have several sizes
Great video. I see a lot of people putting another glue coat over the Canvas. Is that a wasted step or is it even extra protection? I am going to PMF my Camper Build because it is cheaper, but I don't know if I should install the glue on top of the canvas, sand then paint? What are your thoughts Lucy?
I prefer to not have an extra layer of glue so the paint can soak deeply into the canvas. I have an 8 year old and 5 year old trailer in perfect shape still using this technique :)
@@thelwood Thank you for your expert insight. Is it a necessity to dilute the paint, or can you just use the paint at full strength?
@@danemmerich6775 definitely do a coat of diluted paint
@@thelwood thank you
So people are calling canvas covering PMF? This is what we used on boats since long before frp. It’s cool seeing old processes being rediscovered.
Yes boats and airplanes used to be covered this way! I love the method and I don't know who started the PMF name. I have made 3 trailers this way and they are all holding up wonderfully:)
There are many weight of cotton canvas drop cloth available. from 8 to 18 oz. Which would you recommend? The thickest the better?
I use 8oz and it is plenty thick and easy to work with
When you say exterior paint do you mean for timber or masonry?
I have always used timber paint like house paint
I am currently building a square drop camper on an old pop up trailer base. Will be doing PMF and had some questions. Is there a way to email you my questions!!!
I got your email!
Do you water down the glue and can you use bedsheets for the canvas
Love the video
Grts from Belgium
There is no need to water down the glue and I have seen people use bed sheets. I like the thicker porous elements of the canvas. I think it is probably stronger. But I have never done a direct comparison 😃
Where did you learn about this poor mans fiberglass?
I'm wondering if you have done any work restoring vintage railroad cars or know someone who has because this is almost exactly how the roofing is done on railroad cars built up to about the 1940s.
I first learned about on a teardrop forum. And from there I just researched the technique, planes and boats used to be coated this way too. And then did small trials to make sure I had it down prior to my first trailer. I have completed trailers with it.
I bet a zero breeze A/C could cool that thing down with just battery power on even the hottest days!