Thanks Tim, one of your most useful videos and all your stuff is valid and to the point. You save lazy folk like me from doing the research instead of just winging it!
This is such a timely video for us. We are about to move and take IOG with us and add PW3 and solar. The Grid of the different rates clarifies what our best options are. Thanks 😊
Very clear video, many thanks! I've been on normal Go for a few years, I've been thinking of switching to something smarter and an export tariff. Food for thought.
after weeks of cogitating, ruminating and deliberating over this confusing conundrum I committed to chenging my import tariff and subscribimg to an export tariff yesterday after receiving your patient and informative interaction woth mo in the comments of another video, so thank you Tim for your valued and appreciated assistance. Octopus tariff information on their website is difficult to find and is confusing , so the clarification in this video will be welcomed by those in a similar predicament.
It was your question that prompted this video, as it happens. You aren't the first to ask, so I thought it was well past due some clarification on the subject. I agree it is hard to find the relevant information on the Octopus website.
My system went live on 28th June and have tipped over 1MW this morning (931kWh in July which I'm hearing hasn't been a great month but hope to hit 950 by the end of the day!) 😁 Only got set up on the export on 28th July and went for the fixed outgoing @15p, but have already exported £10 worth of elec. I've charged the battery up on the 7p rate (as I'm on IOG) and dump the remaining battery at the end of the day (not a lot as the AC is running into the evening) and that's cost £1.50 so I'm up £8.50 which is more than enough to cover my standing charges and gas usage. I check the apps far too much as it is so the fixed export seemed far simpler rather than chasing a few extra pence here and there with the variable exports.
@@steve_787 I am in the process of getting solar and I am evaluating my options . I can fit 4.5kw of solar 5kw inverter and I think 15kwh of battery storage. Some say I only need half that storage , but due to work my house can be empty for upto 2 weeks at a time. I believe the extra storage will give me options on when to keep or export energy.
@@Disco45 I have Agile import and standard 15p export with a 5.8kW battery. I use about 10kWh per day, so the battery isn't enough to see me through in the winter when solar production is a bit low. However, the cost for the additional battery capacity buys an awful lot of electricity. I worked out it would be a similar payback time to my whole system, and decided not to go for it. On average I pay way less for my electricity per kWh than I do import.
@@Disco45 WIth my battery (9.5kWH) I find that literally 99% of my usage is offpeak because I'm filling the battery off peak and using it during the day. Hwoever I ahev an EV which enables me to get that off peak 7p rate. Do you ahve one? If not its hard to see what a large battery will get you. In winter your solar is unlikely to give you enough for a day and you might need say 3 or 4 days to fill up 15kW. Perhasp you think you can fill it up when away and use it when back but thats only good for a coupel of days most likely. The key is to get a higher export rate than daytime use rate.
With agile the average difference between the lowest import and the highest export. Seems very slim. It would seem the larger your battery the better in order to maximise the difference. As the standing charge eats a lot of the export profit. I am interested in making during the summer and using the summer profit to pay for winter. My end goal is to be in net profit from the grid over the year.
Can you give some balance on suppliers here? I switched from Octopus to EON Next and Next Export (SEG) this year. I was happy with Octopus service over the last 3-years (and their tariff innovations) but EON current pricing and off-peak times mean a better deal for us with an EV, home battery and solar. The roof mounted panel generation exceeds our house consumption 9 months of the year but this is not so unusual. Export at £0.165 and off-peak 00.00 to 0700........ What about a comparison between more than one supplier? Mike.
Flux rates in my area. Off peak import= 12.73p .... Peak export = 21.3p = 8.57p profit. Standing charge = 65.37. 65.37p÷8.57p =7.62kwh before break even. This battery alone not including any solar . I believe the best way for me would be to charge at off peak then the excess solar during the day goes to the grid then force discharge during peak hours ?
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk It does seem a more relaxed way than watching agile all the time. I guess with agile you could still follow the same pattern as in general the lows and highs follow a predictable pattern.
@@Disco45 that is true, yeah, it does have some consistent patterns. There are also some third party services that can automate it for you: czcams.com/video/Nmk7M156_PE/video.htmlsi=_o7QjlxW3c4_rYAD
Had a 7.8 kWh system with 13 kWh GivEnergy battery installed last week. We are low consumption, and currently since system was installed we are generating on average 37 kWh a day and of that house consumption is around 3.7 kWh a day. Battery drops around 25-30% overnight to grid and house I think. Havent got export setup with Octopus yet, but cant decide if flux or intelligent flux would be best, spreadsheet suggets intelligent flux, but, intelligent flux gives me the jitters for some reaon, not sure why. Also wondering if with the time it takes to set things up whether we are a bit late for some tariffs now? Also, i dont quite inderstand the 'frac export at peak' section in tbe ruke of thumb spreadsheet. Pretty sure itnif just me being an idiot.
The 'frac export at peak' is the fraction of your total export (solar + battery force export) that you think you can achieve during the peak 4-7pm period. So as an example, if you export 20kWh in one day and 10kWh of that is between 4 and 7pm then the frac = 0.5, i.e. half. When you're force exporting your battery at peak times you'll find that a good fraction of your total export happens during that time, although you may find that a suitable value for you might be lower given you've got a large array which will mean you're exporting more during the day, before the peak period. I hope that helps.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Understood - thanks for the quick response. Do you think it might be a bit late in the year to look at something like Flux/Intelligent Flux considering export has not been setup yet. Also not sure we are ready to hand over control with intelligent. In my simple mind having the ability to discharge only enough to ensure the battery keeps the house going overnight may seem a better option - keep control at the cost of a few pennies. Maybe a barrier I need to get over - also maths isn't my strong point. And I could have just misunderstood how intelligent works 🙂 Thanks for the great content.
@grumpyfather2964 it depends how quickly you can get the export set up. Mine took about three weeks, if I recall correctly, but it can vary. Intelligent Flux does require a bit of a change of mindset, you have to trust that it'll do the right thing and not stress about it. I've let it get on with things and haven't fiddled at all and it's worked brilliantly for me (see my stats videos for proof) but a lot of folks get confused and wonder why the battery isn't supporting the house (it's not supposed to!) or why it's exporting outside of the peak period (it doesn't matter!), but I understand the reluctance. I would suggest starting with regular Flux perhaps, as that's still very good, and it'll give you a chance to get used to things. Alternatively, if you can get onto Intelligent Go (if you have an EV) then that'll be much better for the Winter, so you might not need to switch if you go for that right away.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Tim I absolutely love your channel - I'm super impressed at your analytical skills - next level :-) Also, I have just installed a 8kWh system and a 5kWh battery and I'm wondering re the 'frac export at peak' how did you calculate this? . I have a Givenergy system but can't see this level of granular detail? Thank you again - hats off to you - trying to figure out whether it's worth installing a charger to allow me to access the Intelligent Go tariff as an alternative to the Intelligent Flux.It's early days but I think my ratio of generation to consumption is > 2:1 but given how new the system is, I only have 1 months worth of data.
@@Adrian-rc4ub thank you. That frac value is a bit finger in the air, really. Just look at your generation curve and estimate roughly how much of it can be exported during the 4-7 pm peak period (this is only relevant for Flux or IOF) and then add on how much you can force export during that time from your batteries. If half your total export (solar plus battery) can be done during that peak period then the frac value is 0.5. If you can only export a quarter of your total export during that time then the value would be 0.25. Most people should find a value from 0.3 to 0.7 is about right.
Do you have to wait until the array is fully up and running before you can switch to an export tariff? If you can switch earlier, to get a head start on the process, what is the earliest stage at which you can apply? Also: Same question re: switching from a non-EV to EV tariff.
You need an MCS certificate and letter from the DNO, so as soon as you've those you're good to go. You don't tend to get those until after your system is commissioned though, so I don't think you can get much of a head start on it. Switching to IOG requires a test charge so you'd need an EV and charger first.
Erm, no, that's not what I'm showing. If you're generating 30+ kWh in a day you can't use all that. You should get paid for it at the highest rate you can. I earn quite a bit in the Summer from my export.
It's very viable to export especially if you, like me, are on Intelligent Octopus Go. I can fill my 13.5kWh GivEnergy All-In-One battery as well as my car at night for 7p/kWh and export everything I can during the day for 15p/kWh. I'm 8p/kWh better off doing that than consuming what I generate during the day and exporting the rest.
Thanks Tim, one of your most useful videos and all your stuff is valid and to the point. You save lazy folk like me from doing the research instead of just winging it!
No problem, I'm glad it's useful!
This is such a timely video for us. We are about to move and take IOG with us and add PW3 and solar. The Grid of the different rates clarifies what our best options are. Thanks 😊
Cool, glad it was well timed!
Very clear video, many thanks! I've been on normal Go for a few years, I've been thinking of switching to something smarter and an export tariff. Food for thought.
No problem. The number of tariffs available now can be quite overwhelming, even without including export tariffs in the mix!
after weeks of cogitating, ruminating and deliberating over this confusing conundrum I committed to chenging my import tariff and subscribimg to an export tariff yesterday after receiving your patient and informative interaction woth mo in the comments of another video, so thank you Tim for your valued and appreciated assistance.
Octopus tariff information on their website is difficult to find and is confusing , so the clarification in this video will be welcomed by those in a similar predicament.
It was your question that prompted this video, as it happens. You aren't the first to ask, so I thought it was well past due some clarification on the subject. I agree it is hard to find the relevant information on the Octopus website.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk top marks for recognising the Octopus tariff conundrum and for taking the initiative to make this clarification video. 👍
@David-bl1bt it was well timed, I was looking for a subject for this week so you gave me a good idea, thank you!
I am super happy on Intelligent Octopus, especially since last year where my export rate got doubled to 15p per kWh!
That changed the game, really. It's an amazing combination that's hard to beat.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk
Very hard to beat IOG indeed.
In the whole market only EON Next is more competitive than IOG
@@serraios1989 yes, that is a great tariff too.
My system went live on 28th June and have tipped over 1MW this morning (931kWh in July which I'm hearing hasn't been a great month but hope to hit 950 by the end of the day!) 😁 Only got set up on the export on 28th July and went for the fixed outgoing @15p, but have already exported £10 worth of elec. I've charged the battery up on the 7p rate (as I'm on IOG) and dump the remaining battery at the end of the day (not a lot as the AC is running into the evening) and that's cost £1.50 so I'm up £8.50 which is more than enough to cover my standing charges and gas usage. I check the apps far too much as it is so the fixed export seemed far simpler rather than chasing a few extra pence here and there with the variable exports.
That's excellent, great to hear. I also spend far too long checking my various apps throughout the day!
@@steve_787 I guess once you work out the general pattern you'll spend a little less time glued to the market 😄
@@steve_787 I am in the process of getting solar and I am evaluating my options . I can fit 4.5kw of solar 5kw inverter and I think 15kwh of battery storage.
Some say I only need half that storage , but due to work my house can be empty for upto 2 weeks at a time. I believe the extra storage will give me options on when to keep or export energy.
@@Disco45 I have Agile import and standard 15p export with a 5.8kW battery. I use about 10kWh per day, so the battery isn't enough to see me through in the winter when solar production is a bit low. However, the cost for the additional battery capacity buys an awful lot of electricity. I worked out it would be a similar payback time to my whole system, and decided not to go for it. On average I pay way less for my electricity per kWh than I do import.
@@Disco45 WIth my battery (9.5kWH) I find that literally 99% of my usage is offpeak because I'm filling the battery off peak and using it during the day. Hwoever I ahev an EV which enables me to get that off peak 7p rate. Do you ahve one? If not its hard to see what a large battery will get you. In winter your solar is unlikely to give you enough for a day and you might need say 3 or 4 days to fill up 15kW. Perhasp you think you can fill it up when away and use it when back but thats only good for a coupel of days most likely. The key is to get a higher export rate than daytime use rate.
Can't see the fixed rate of 15p/kWh holding for long now agile prices have fallen so much. I shall enjoy it while it lasts.
Yes, I was surprised it didn't fall along with all the import rates at the start of July. As you say, make the most if it while it lasts.
With agile the average difference between the lowest import and the highest export. Seems very slim.
It would seem the larger your battery the better in order to maximise the difference. As the standing charge eats a lot of the export profit.
I am interested in making during the summer and using the summer profit to pay for winter.
My end goal is to be in net profit from the grid over the year.
I got very close last year. Total bill for the year was £220.
Can you give some balance on suppliers here? I switched from Octopus to EON Next and Next Export (SEG) this year. I was happy with Octopus service over the last 3-years (and their tariff innovations) but EON current pricing and off-peak times mean a better deal for us with an EV, home battery and solar. The roof mounted panel generation exceeds our house consumption 9 months of the year but this is not so unusual. Export at £0.165 and off-peak 00.00 to 0700........ What about a comparison between more than one supplier? Mike.
I don't have first hand experience of other suppliers so I'd rather not.
Flux rates in my area. Off peak import= 12.73p .... Peak export = 21.3p = 8.57p profit.
Standing charge = 65.37.
65.37p÷8.57p =7.62kwh before break even.
This battery alone not including any solar .
I believe the best way for me would be to charge at off peak then the excess solar during the day goes to the grid then force discharge during peak hours ?
Yes, that's what I did last year and it worked well.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk It does seem a more relaxed way than watching agile all the time. I guess with agile you could still follow the same pattern as in general the lows and highs follow a predictable pattern.
@@Disco45 that is true, yeah, it does have some consistent patterns. There are also some third party services that can automate it for you:
czcams.com/video/Nmk7M156_PE/video.htmlsi=_o7QjlxW3c4_rYAD
Had a 7.8 kWh system with 13 kWh GivEnergy battery installed last week. We are low consumption, and currently since system was installed we are generating on average 37 kWh a day and of that house consumption is around 3.7 kWh a day. Battery drops around 25-30% overnight to grid and house I think. Havent got export setup with Octopus yet, but cant decide if flux or intelligent flux would be best, spreadsheet suggets intelligent flux, but, intelligent flux gives me the jitters for some reaon, not sure why. Also wondering if with the time it takes to set things up whether we are a bit late for some tariffs now?
Also, i dont quite inderstand the 'frac export at peak' section in tbe ruke of thumb spreadsheet. Pretty sure itnif just me being an idiot.
The 'frac export at peak' is the fraction of your total export (solar + battery force export) that you think you can achieve during the peak 4-7pm period. So as an example, if you export 20kWh in one day and 10kWh of that is between 4 and 7pm then the frac = 0.5, i.e. half. When you're force exporting your battery at peak times you'll find that a good fraction of your total export happens during that time, although you may find that a suitable value for you might be lower given you've got a large array which will mean you're exporting more during the day, before the peak period. I hope that helps.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Understood - thanks for the quick response. Do you think it might be a bit late in the year to look at something like Flux/Intelligent Flux considering export has not been setup yet.
Also not sure we are ready to hand over control with intelligent. In my simple mind having the ability to discharge only enough to ensure the battery keeps the house going overnight may seem a better option - keep control at the cost of a few pennies. Maybe a barrier I need to get over - also maths isn't my strong point. And I could have just misunderstood how intelligent works 🙂
Thanks for the great content.
@grumpyfather2964 it depends how quickly you can get the export set up. Mine took about three weeks, if I recall correctly, but it can vary. Intelligent Flux does require a bit of a change of mindset, you have to trust that it'll do the right thing and not stress about it. I've let it get on with things and haven't fiddled at all and it's worked brilliantly for me (see my stats videos for proof) but a lot of folks get confused and wonder why the battery isn't supporting the house (it's not supposed to!) or why it's exporting outside of the peak period (it doesn't matter!), but I understand the reluctance. I would suggest starting with regular Flux perhaps, as that's still very good, and it'll give you a chance to get used to things. Alternatively, if you can get onto Intelligent Go (if you have an EV) then that'll be much better for the Winter, so you might not need to switch if you go for that right away.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Tim I absolutely love your channel - I'm super impressed at your analytical skills - next level :-) Also, I have just installed a 8kWh system and a 5kWh battery and I'm wondering re the 'frac export at peak' how did you calculate this? . I have a Givenergy system but can't see this level of granular detail? Thank you again - hats off to you - trying to figure out whether it's worth installing a charger to allow me to access the Intelligent Go tariff as an alternative to the Intelligent Flux.It's early days but I think my ratio of generation to consumption is > 2:1 but given how new the system is, I only have 1 months worth of data.
@@Adrian-rc4ub thank you. That frac value is a bit finger in the air, really. Just look at your generation curve and estimate roughly how much of it can be exported during the 4-7 pm peak period (this is only relevant for Flux or IOF) and then add on how much you can force export during that time from your batteries. If half your total export (solar plus battery) can be done during that peak period then the frac value is 0.5. If you can only export a quarter of your total export during that time then the value would be 0.25. Most people should find a value from 0.3 to 0.7 is about right.
Do you have to wait until the array is fully up and running before you can switch to an export tariff? If you can switch earlier, to get a head start on the process, what is the earliest stage at which you can apply?
Also: Same question re: switching from a non-EV to EV tariff.
You need an MCS certificate and letter from the DNO, so as soon as you've those you're good to go. You don't tend to get those until after your system is commissioned though, so I don't think you can get much of a head start on it. Switching to IOG requires a test charge so you'd need an EV and charger first.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Kewl, than you 😎👍
It's clear - not viable to export, one should use all one generates. Thanks for sharing
Erm, no, that's not what I'm showing. If you're generating 30+ kWh in a day you can't use all that. You should get paid for it at the highest rate you can. I earn quite a bit in the Summer from my export.
It's very viable to export especially if you, like me, are on Intelligent Octopus Go. I can fill my 13.5kWh GivEnergy All-In-One battery as well as my car at night for 7p/kWh and export everything I can during the day for 15p/kWh. I'm 8p/kWh better off doing that than consuming what I generate during the day and exporting the rest.
@@FFVoyager quite.
EH? I import at 7p at night run my house off that and export all solar at 15p so it makes no sense at all for me to use my solar.
@@Joe-lb8qnExport your solar energy as well!