AI May Never Be Able To Make A Movie - Russell Palmer
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- čas přidán 3. 04. 2024
- In this Film Courage video interview, we ask Russell Palmer his thoughts on generative AI and how it may or may not work with filmmaking and television.
Russell Palmer is a technologist and Silicon Valley Product Manager with a background in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science, having worked at companies including Microsoft, Viv Labs AI, Samsung Research AI, and JPMorgan's AI Lab at Stanford Research Park.
He co-founded the startup CyberFilm AI in 2021 with his brother Andrew, an indie writer/screenwriter/director/producer/actor, founder of Synapz Productions and an AD on Hollywood productions around Toronto, Vancouver, and Los Angeles (and WGC/DGC/CMPA member).
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It already has. Its called Rebel Moon.
When was this recorded? It’s already outdated!
Feb 26 in Pasadena, CA (so yes it's a little old, though I think the statements and timeline on Sora hold true... we just saw the first Short Film "air head" and now music videos, and certainly no real movies made through AI alone yet.
Exactly! Humans want to watch other people act in a movie, not a piece of soulless AI! 😁 I came from neuropsychology and AI research into film, and from everything I have ever read or observed, AI can be extremely helpful with editing material that is human-created; however, it is not capable of generating anything purely new. That means that we shall always need actors, animators, directors to teach and supervise AI, but never be replaced by it. The quality of images and sound can improve drastically, especially in special effects and imaginary spaces, extensions of reality can be enhanced. However, to create independently something that is truly human, an AI machine needs to have experienced a human life and developed to the level of the most talented humans who create movies now.
All it requires is a high degree of specificity and a good knowledge of the process limitations. Give it a year and you’ll start seeing some awesome five minute shorts. That’s the beginning of the end.
Perhaps but I'd say it if it requires human prompt specificity, this is not AI making the movie yet. I agree we'll see better 5 min Short Films soon (we made a 10 min on our channel you can view today), but this is Human-In-The-Loop filmmaking with AI as a tool. Which I think is great, people want humans involved in production.
Thank you 🌸
This guy is wrong. He's dissalusioned believing that the business CARES about human feelings and ACTORS. Money is what will PUSH AI FORWARD 💰
"Be the the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi
I don't think I'm wrong or disillusioned, just trying to make a difference and not be jaded. Business is not a bad thing (nor technology), I'm sure you enjoy every minute of your iPhone and CZcams and Netflix. And money? Capitalism is what makes our lives better than those in dictatorships/Communist countries so maybe you're the wrong one with this attitude.
Yeah the internet will never catch on.
Meaning?
@@writeonsaga it's gonna happen
I think sora would be great for storyboarding but reliance on it would take away so much of what is great about filmmaking and story telling. I can definitely predict that social media will be flooded with short form AI video within a week of Soras release and that's where we will see its creative potential bloom.
AI as a tool has potential. Think - you can make a trailer or teaser video for (say) pitching. The visualization has potential. Imagine pitching your script with a decent AI generated teaser. That has great potential.
Virtual studios are very interesting as well - AI generated backdrops are amazing. And last but not least not least (3D printing) is changing the industry as well - printing props - reusable material makes budgets do-able financially. Real props look amazing - and to print any prop the mind can create is going to revolutionize the film industry - lots of cool things coming in the new era.
I would agree with this, we made a trailer you can see on our channel titled "The Human Race" in just a few hours (which we later turned in to a Short Film)... and certainly some of the most compelling examples of AI-generated synthetic video have been these fake movie trailers e.g. "Wes Anderson makes Star Wars" and I hope to see people doing this more for their original work soon. If a picture is worth 1000 words, a trailer or pilot episode for your scripts are priceless
@inToddWeTrust also agree on AI-invented props, we talk a bit about that and more on this vlog: czcams.com/video/B49WjGSnDcM/video.html
AI will 100% be able to make a movie. They're already making almost photorealistic scenes from text prompts. I would be willing to bet someone could copy and paste a detailed script into a text prompt and get a movie within 5 years.
To say a self learning technology would never achieve xyz, is beyond naive.
@@SALVATl0NI certainly understand why someone that is involved in the filmmaking industry would think this way, AI represents an irreversible change to their livelihood. Our friend Russell is in the first stage of grief. Next comes anger.
No, it can make crappy uncanny valley footage that breaks all rules of physics as it only predicts the next statistical pixel.
I say read AI researchers Gary Marcus. He has been critical of generative systems for years and argued that neuronetwork “AI” is overhyped unethical nonsense.
They are fundamental flaws in generative models that is inbuilt in the system. An LLM will never stop hallucinating.
They have no understanding, no world model, no ability to reason. It has a lot of data, key words and patterns and what it generates is just what mathematically could follow without understanding what it generates.
This is not real AI, this is mass sampling and autocomplete on steroids.
Then we have the issues of copyright and all the ethical issues of how generative models are made. And that is another can of worms.
@jasminekaram880 generative ai is not the only AI model out there, get your self educated.
Can it make a _good_ movie though? A _human_ movie you can relate to?
Man... Have you seen recent Marvel & Star Wars films & shows? I could absolutely see an AI make one of those... Same messages, same story beats, worsening dialog.
Agree. I think it could do high-concept action and sci-fi, maybe fantasy, decently--except for the dialogue. A human 100% needs to write the dialogue, which can be rewritten dozens of times by the writer prior to submission, and is subject to revision afterward--because it needs to *not* sound robotic or on the nose. Epic fail for AI.
@5Gburn That's what I'm saying though, given the dialog we see in the more recent films... It nearly feels robotic and paint by the numbers.
Actually for me "Infinity Wars" is one of the best movies I've seen in years, top 5 of the decade. I love Marvel and so many of their movies, probably at least 10-15 of them. I think people dissing Marvel now are finding maybe 1-2 movies (some of which like "The Eternals" I think are bad very recently) but wow what a run... let's not forget all the amazing Spider-Man and Avengers movies we've all enjoyed. It's revisionist to think they weren't advancing cinema. I also want less superhero movies finally, more comedy/drama/etc but I just can't hate Marvel (or Disney).
It 100% will be able to, and very soon. And this wont be a bad thing. I think theres a lot missing from this conversation though too. We arent just talking 100% generative, we are talking filters, generatove, directed, a whole like a stuff that can be combined.
Why do you say 100%?
@@filmcourageSo first, we can't just look at generative. We have to look at generative plus filters plus lip syncing plus effects. Now that just video, but that can be used for sound effects and music, which can be directed with instruments, leitmotifs, and much more. Then writing, which is the hard one, but I know someone who has cracked that code. We also must remember the psychological experiment with the triangle and square and big triangle in that box. It doesn't have the be perfect with the right story, and a lot of tools can get us closer than just generative alone.
Agreed, whether I like it or not 😢
@@livmilesparanormalromanceb6891 I understand it can be scary to loose a ob, but if all of it is A.I., you can use your talents plus A.I. to create your own stuff. You don't need to rely on the studio for that creation anymore.
We appreciate your follow up comment. Thank you for posting.
he has no rationale for why ai couldn't make feature films, he just says it at the end for no reason
10 years from now, a teen sitting in garage with help of AI will create a virtual set of all locations, all characters facial expressions, movements etc.. and from text to video, from text to edit, from text to music & text to filters will make a movie of 120 minutes & send to golden globes/Oscars & win the award...
This is my opinion & the art/craft of screenwriting be more specific with prompts..
Best wishes to potential filmmakers of tomorrow..or this decade..
I think you could be right, that kid and people like him will BE the filmmakers of tomorrow. That's why we believe AI won't hurt the industry, it will grow it. And it won't hurt the culture or art form, because kids all over the world have great and diverse ideas no one in Hollywood typically listens to. And with Netflix being in "the cloud", it has a capacity for limitless movies and each can be targeted to niche audiences around the world (with AI translation) based on their known movie preferences. The future is bright!
"May"
What do you think?
Here is the thing with most genAI...with the current trends in our hyper consumerism, hyper-capitalistic society it will all boil down to moral ethics. There is a wonderful recent session with Jon Stewart from the Daily show which I highly recommend everyone to check that is embracing this genAI hype. It aired a few days ago here in YT.
Please check also the interviews with Gary Marcus, Emily Bender and Timnit Gebru with Adam Conover. Karla Ortiz (videos from Concept Art Association and Steven Zapata(Steven had a recent Ted Talk here in YT)
💯
Ai can and will eventually be able to replace anything. People used to say it will never take creative jobs because it doesnt have that 'spark.' Yet all online artists are now complaining because so many of their livelihoods are being lost to people using AI. It has created new Mozart concerts, new Beatles songs, all using algorithms based upon their previous work. Movies will come. This is what people dont get - when robotics advances enough, that combined with AI will leave virtually no industry that cannot 100% replace humans. The only industry unaffected will be sports, due to us wanting to see humans push the limits.
AI and robotics will cause a change in our society that weve never seen before, and our children will all lose their jobs to it.
I think I do "get" what you're saying, but like you mention about humans playing sports, movies are also a market. People pay to watch things they want to, and if movies made by AI (with no human-in-the-loop) aren't appealing no one will watch them and they will go out of business. Or humans using AI as a tool will make amazing movies, which means more jobs. People like athletes as they like actors. We do see artists "complain" - to your point - but I don't think I agree that artists have lost jobs yet due to AI (or that it's guaranteed they all will). I don't think any screenwriters or painters have sold less work recently, and ChatGPT and Midjourney have been out for years now. And if "our children lose their jobs", the government will likely fund UBI and then we'll all play sports and make art, a positive outcome (better than driving a truck).
Wasn't so long ago people feared the digital camera!
All these tools should be embraced & utilized by creatives. AI will save millions in CGI costs & lead to more filmmakers being able to produce content🎬
No!
They are unethically made and produced based on theft of of peoples private data and creative work.
They are environmentally destructive,
They are unreliable and hallucinate nonsense. With no understanding. Hence why they break facts, the rules of physics and are deeply in the uncanny valley.
They mass autocomplete and mass-sampling on steroids. And nothing more and nothing less.
Many prefer analog film because it has benefits to cinematography and flexibility there in , looks more pleasing to the eye and you have no digital noise and and do not cost several tetra bytes of memory and many of us prefer practical effects and want to fake movies out of the uncanny valley.
New tech does not equal better.
Absolutely, part of me kind of wants more filmmakers to avoid AI and continue to moan about the good old days and "real filmmaking", slightly less competition in the years to come.
@@OfficialAndies If you want more uncanny valley and use unethical models environmentally destructive modeled made by scraping peoples private data and copyrighted work without consent nor compensation to make commercial models. Actors get their likeness scraped without consent to be used for deep fakes. There is a lot at stake.
And you behave as if there is no problem. There is and both for AI ethicists and the rest.
@@OfficialAndies AI is the apple falling on Newton's head!
If we only use film, then they don't develop 'bullet-time' or the techniques used in 'Avatar'. These new technologies should broaden the horizon of a filmmaker.
Creative people are limited, not by their imagination, but the budget! AI will help the old romantics of film be more efficient.
Gen-AI is also capable of replacing filmmakers, and many people in the production line. Most gen-AI uses stolen copyrighted material produced by creatives. Comparing it to a camera is disingenuous.
Name a movie AI would never make.
My pick: Requiem for a Dream
Ex Machina
Gummo
@@interstellarbeatteller9306 Most definitely.
@@MeatCatCheesyBlaster Hadn't heard of that one--just looked it up. Dang.
LOL Gummo was my first choice. I was like "what's the weirdest movie I've seen.......Gummo!"
I have literally already seen movies written by AI. They really gaslighting us on this one
Not gaslighting, more like inhaling Copium
Can you share an example of a movie written completely by AI? Was it good? I have not seen any completely AI generated movie yet - no gaslighting just believe without humans-in-the-loop they may never be good enough to be considered a "movie" (something people pay to watch and enjoy).
@@MeatCatCheesyBlaster Yikes, I'm not on anything but if you've seen a movie written by AI please share here. Otherwise I'd hold back on the insults.
Looking in the mirror doesn't help foresee the future.
1y ago, AI depicting Will Smith eating spaghetti made us smile, it's in the mirror now. Sora is right in front of us. Then, what's after the next turn? We don't know, but we can't predict based on its infancy.
My prediction was not based on Sora's infancy "in the mirror", but the technical incompatibility between animation/film today and how Stable Diffusion generates images... but I agree "we don't know" what's around the corner. This was why I would not have recommended Tyler Perry shut down his studio - it's possible AI "synthetic actors" never escape the uncanny valley. It might (and we're hoping it goes - our company makes AI tools for filmmakers) but it might not any time soon either.
What do you think?
I don't trust AI, that's what caused people to go on strike about
@@ryanhowell4492 I believe the strike started around streaming residuals, although AI did get pulled in as a topic later (especially when the streamers themselves revealed they were actually losing money and laying off people, as their counter-argument).
I do not believe for a minute that AI won't be able to develope enough to make a feature length movie. Why do you think actors and writers were just on strike?
It isn't there yet, but it will be. If we will be a multi planet species in my lifetime, AI can make a movie.
I do agree that people arent going to want to watch live action created by AI but... I think animation might be totally fucked.
I also believe we'll get there, or get pretty close... but yes I agree it will always be better with a human producing it (even if AI helps with virtual production).
He really tries to talk himself out of AI generated movies. A for effort. It's definitely gonna happen.
If you watch the episode, I'm not trying to talk myself out of it. I started a company in 2021 betting on this happening, building AI tools for filmmakers. But I'll take the "A" 🙂 My point was that humans should and will most likely still be behind each movie, using AI as tools to generate things they can't like VFX.
😮 what crack rock does he smoking and where do I get it😮 it would definitely help take the edge off in these confusing AI times😮 I just saw a program that literally makes entire movies I don't know what this guy is talking about what crack he's smoking😮
I think the difference is, you can make a video with moving images and sounds and voices but... is it good enough to be considered a "movie"? Especially if there are no human acting performances?
Sooo, with all that being said, I was waiting for Karen to ask him, why create something that has the potential to replace the human element in film making 🤷🏾♂️?
My answer would have been: "I believe the technology won't replace humans, it will bring more humans in to the film industry. The ones that use it will become better than AI or Human alone and learn/grown new higher level skills... like how the Go champion become a better Go player after challenging an AI (and people still play Go, robot players didn't replace them)."
Huberis.
I doubt you even watched this episode. Just trolling the title. What part is hubris? This is an interview giving guidance on current technology and setting expectations for the next 10ish years. Have you seen AI make a movie yet?
This will age like milk.
I get the impression you didn't even watch what I said, just trolling the title?
I don't trust AI
This is why we need to master it, control it, and use it as our tool (not release wild uncontrolled AI in to the world to do everything for us... we need to use it as a tool to improve humanity)
Using the terms "AI" and "Never" in the same sentence is always a poor statement to make.
"May never" 😉 But if you listen to the episode I mentioned we're betting it will.