NEW CARAVAN REGULATIONS-Tech Talk Ep1
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
- Welcome to our brand new series, which we have titled “Tech Talk.”
In this series we will consider some technical aspects of off-grid power systems including what’s involved in building a system and what factors need to be considered.
In this first episode we will discuss the new industry regulations which are now in affect as of the 18th of November 2023.
We will consider what these new regulations mean, what they require and clear up some of the confusion that is circulating.
🌐 linktr.ee/rdautoelectrics
🇦🇺 RD Auto Electrics Pty Ltd
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Great info mate. Greatly appreciated and makes a lot of sense really. 👍🏾
Thanks for the comment mate and for the positive feedback!🙂
Great info legend! Made it nice and simple to understand all the changes to the regulations.
Thanks legends!🙂
Thanks for the very helpful info, much appreciated.
No problem at all mate, glad to hear it was helpful!🙂✌🏻
This is a seriously good video mate; not many tech experts can present like you can. Thanks and keep up the good work.
Thanks for the feedback Chris and for supporting the channel!
Clearly the new regs aren't retrospective but the need to manage a catastrophic failure of a lithium battery shouldn't be ignored and people should consider an upgrade of their existing battery enclosure. The top quality batteries have excellent internal safeguards but it's the cheapies that will cause the problems. I've seen enough disasters on youtube with self combusting lithium batteries and on top of my career in the electrical power industry ( high voltage / high current switchgear) I would be tending towards a dedicated steel enclosure just for the batteries, rackable from the outside with flexible cables and not just filters but rupture discs to vent hot expanding gasses to atmosphere. And frankly, I reckon that's where the regulations will eventually end up.
Hence why we stick to using only quality lithium batteries such as Custom Lithium & Enerdrive!
Good video Riley. Clear and concise. Let me say from the outset if these new regs. make vehicles safer I'm all for them. The batteries are still under the seat where they always were. Now there's a bit of wood over the top screwed down making them harder to access. I don't see how that changes them "sharing a habitable area". If they blow up, catch fire or whatever I don't think the bit of ply wood is going to save anyone. I've got a van under construction now and with the new regs. they've decided to put my batteries in one end of the tunnel boot. So it's no longer a proper tunnel boot and it changes the weight dynamic and pushes weight to the front and ball of the van rather than over the axles. The other thing is that all the electricals are now right under my pillow separated probably by a bit of ply wood. Lithium batteries come in all sorts of sizes these days. There must be a way to have these batteries in a strongly constructed ally box or such like tucked up and attached to the chassis with a hatch on the outside of the van for access and ventillation. 👍
Thanks Peter!
This may sound pedantic but in my opinion anywhere inside the caravan be it open or a sealed box is a "Habitable" area.
So if this was me I would fit the batteries into an outside box possibly on the draw bar.
If quality batteries are used and the install is done correctly there is absolutely no concern with having the batteries installed inside.
Thanks so much for breaking these changes down. Caravaning forums are full confusion on this topic. Obviously the rules aren't retrospective, however I'm wondering what impact this might have on insurance? I upgraded panels and batteries on my Jayco a few years ago and wonder if insurance companies might start denying claims for carravans not up to current spec even though the regulations don't mandate they be uplifted as such.
Also, on regards to the new regs, any idea how this is policed? Do installers have to complete a corse so they are authorised to sign off that work is to code?
Great video, well presented and exactly what is needed to hear there is so much BS out there at the moment
Thanks so much for the feedback and great to hear you found the video helpful!👍🏻
Good advice thankyou for your efforts. If i may point out in the intro after telling what the regs are tell or inform your audience of the commencement date. It would relieve a bit of stress. Thankyou. Bravo from Victoria Australia..
Thanks for the feedback Michael!✌🏻
This is really helpful, I've been trying to find info on this as we're buying a new van and it feels like even the van supplier isn't aware of these requirements or at least the detail as to what it means they need to do to be compliant
Thanks for watching and for the positive feedback!🙂✌🏻
@@rdautoelectrics Who would you escalate to in QLD if you picked up a van post 18/11 and think the install in non compliant?
@@davedreves6522 It’s an AUS/NZ wide standard
Great video. Many thanks for this.
Constructive recommendations:
1) State where you are (Australia?) and if the regulations apply to all states?
2) Use a wireless mic to avoid echo, as in the intro.
Thanks for the feedback, will take it on board for sure! Regulations apply to all AUS/NZ
Thanks Riley
Great for battery maintenance
Our battery compartments have fully removable lids for easy access when servicing.
Fantastic info. Thank heavens that they aren't retro-active. I wonder are they going to be enforced if we are simply changing batteries? Surely some government knob is going to try and argue that this is also a fundamental change to the electrical system.
No they aren't retrospective but the need to manage a catastrophic failure of a lithium battery shouldn't be ignored and people should consider an upgrade of their battery enclosure. The top quality batteries have excellent internal safeguards but it's the cheapies that will cause the problems.
@@noelwhittle7922 I have spent a fortune on Victron Energy charging and battery management systems for my hybrid camper, but I'm still planning n paying through the nose for Lithium batteries when I do upgrade. You're right, the cheaper batteries are the ones to cause issues.
@@noelwhittle7922 have you seen any cheapies in this market sector?
Great video. I was totally unaware of these changes in regulations. I've gotta say though, what stupid rules. I wonder which committee was responsible for them.
Thanks Andrew!👍🏻
Great, easy to understand video. New sub here. I see a lot of caravan manufacturers putting the lithium batteries in boxes on the chassis, do you think this would be a problem in colder weather. My understanding is that lithium batteries don’t really like the cold weather?
Thanks for joining the channel mate!✌🏻
If the batteries have the correct IP rating to be fitted externally then it’s not a problem. But we would always suggest fitting the batteries inside to keep them out of the elements🙂
Regarding solar in series, do you have to fuse them individually or per series configuration? Because normally you would series them on the roof before coming in.
Thanks for watching and for your comment!🙂
Yes the same rules apply to solar panels in series and panels would need to be fused on the roof in that situation.
Hi mate thanks for the info. We should be picking up a new Jayco All Terrain (18/12/2023) which has 3x 200W solar on the roof plus an Anderson plug for a portable panel. What should we expect fuse wise on the new van? Maybe it was already built by the time the new regs came in??? Cheers
Thanks for watching and for your comment!✌🏻
If running less than 4 panels you would only be required to have a main fuse or breaker on either side of the solar regulator, you would not be required to have each panel fused individually prior to the main PV fuse/breaker.
If you have any questions once you get the van please don’t hesitate to reach out.
Thanks Riley
Great video, however the venting arrangements appear potentially problematic if located in the floor as there is the potential for water entering the battery compartment.
The vent is well above the vans wading depth.
If water was to reach the height of this floor vent it would also be pouring in floor vents for other items such as the hot water system, diesel heater etc so definitely best to stay clear of water that deep all together👍🏻
Hi There. Thanks for the info this is really good.
A few questions if you wouldn't mind indulging me? I'm considering buying a copy of the AS but I only really have a few questions that I haven't been able to find answers to.
1. Are there any size requirements on the battery compartment, eg does the compartment need to be a specific size larger than the battery volume?
2. How do you prevent water ingress in the floor vent?
3. Are there requirements for location of the vent eg would a side vent for example suffice?
4. Does the circuit protection on the panels need to be a fuse or can they be a circuit breaker?
5. Does the circuit protection need to be located externally or can they be at the input to the MPPT?
Hi there,
Considering you have a number of questions you’re wanting answered, it would be best to either purchase the new standard or contact the department in your state that is responsible for the electrical safety standards.
Thanks Riley
Great video thanks! How do you go about sealing the entry/exit point for the cables that go from the electrical box to the rest of the van?
The cables are sealed with an adhesive sealant inside & out👍🏻
Great info. Do these regulations apply to camper trailers?
As mentioned in the video, these regulations apply to anything mobile that has a 15A mains power inlet👍🏻
Great video thanks for clearing up a lot of things. Regarding the solar panels needing fuses/circuit breakers on both the solar and battery side of the regulator.
Is that only for systems that have the 15a mains power input or for any system in any vehicle?
Thanks for the comment!
These particular regulations are for applications with a 15A mains power inlet, but we would always recommend fusing your solar regulator in all applications. You will find this is also stated in the owners manual for your solar regulator.
Even if you’ve done all your solar yourself and followed the instructions you’ll have a fuse/circuit breaker between the panels and the regulator anyway and one after the regulator and before the battery. Remember keep all fuses as close to the positive battery terminal as possible. A great idea is to use resettable fuses throughout, this means they double up as isolators in case you need to work on the system, just flick the test button on each and your system is isolated from all power inputs. (Never turn solar panels off when they’re under load ie charging a battery)
@@teeanahera8949 well said🙂👍🏻
Great information thank for making that available. So if it's only for 15amp exturnal plug vehicles if you have a 10amp plug inside a car does it apply to lithium batteries inside that vehicle.
@@longway1 That’s correct only applies to applications with a fixed 15A mains power inlet.
So the batteries are in a sealed compartment. What if you want to check the tightness of the terminals.
The top lid is removable for servicing purposes. We also conduct a free service every 12months on all power systems that we supply & install to check things such as that👍🏻
Excellent video thank you. For 12 volt systems pre 18 November do you think the external vent is a good idea? Cheers
An external vent is always a good idea as long as you can keep the dust out, hence why we have fitted a “servicable filter” in the vent🙂
@@rdautoelectrics thank you
With the sealing of the battery area inside this van being lithium if it was to malfunction and catch fire. How would you combat this?
If there was a fire in the van involving the lithium battery you would be exiting the van immediately and contacting emergency services. Trying to combat a fire yourself involving any sort of batteries would be unsafe.
How does the gas go out through vent if that area is not pressurized in some way? the gas could just sit dormant in that large area.
The reasoning behind the battery compartment being sealed & vented externally is to ensure nothing harmful enters the “habitable space.” If there is a build up of pressure in the compartment from smoke, vapour etc it would exit through the external vent rather than into any “habitable area”
Very helpful best so far on explaining the new rules any chance of a look at the vent and battery install?
Thanks for watching!✌🏻
You will be able to see photos of the finished system on our socials below.
linktr.ee/rdautoelectrics
Since when has a lithium battery given off vapour?
Great vid btw!
Thanks Geoff!😎
Never for LiFePo. Unfortunately the new regs are all encompassing and swallowed up lithium LiFePo batts unnecessarily.
@@rossatkinson3160 only for installs after 18/11/23 I installed mine in mid 2022
The battery rules seem to imply Lead acid batteries are the issues re gas and vapours.
The new regulations that we have mentioned in this video apply to all battery types✌🏻
Some Enerdrive and redarc lithium aren’t approved under these new rules @ianbailey4114
But how do I look at the neat work every day that @Rd Auto Electrics has done on my van 🤔🤣
We send you plenty of photos of the system with the lid off so you can look back at them!😉
Just fit a perspex cover.
@@Dave_Gurman yeah could be a good option, just have to be strong enough as it’s a seating area 👍🏼
@8FeetTravels 10mm polycarbonate. You won't break that.
How do you access box for any issues once sealed ?
The access lids are screwed down so can easily be removed for servicing purposes. The foam seal is only attached to the lid side so will stay attached to the lid when removed.
If the battery is in a seal compartment like what you have done in the video, how do you replace or increase capacity in future?
Our battery compartments have a removable lid for servicing and if you expand the battery capacity we would simply replace the enclosure.
@@rdautoelectrics No worries then.
Thanks for the information 👋
No problem John! Thanks for watching✌🏻
if you have a battery fire you can't get to the battery and i believe it's more dangerous because you can't get to to battery in a hurry
If you were to have a fire in a caravan involving a battery, you would definitely not be trying to get to the battery. You would be evacuating the van immediately!
So you’re saying that if your battery catches fire you are going to try get to the battery? And do what? Use the piss fart fire extinguisher that comes with the van to put it out? With respect, have you ever seen a caravan on fire. I have and the heat and flames are unbelievably hot and intense and if it’s a lithium battery nothing is going to put it out anyway. Just get out and let it burn, that’s why we have insurance.
My understanding is that this applies to Lithium Ion batterys only, not to Lithium Iron Phosphate, which most RV batteries are.
These new regulations apply to all battery types including Lithium & AGM
That is not entirely correct Riley. The standard outlines different requirements for both lead acid batteries and Lithium Ion (which LFP are part of that family).
The requirement as detailed by the standard also specifies that the enclosure design and venting design shall be made in conjunction with the battery manufacturer.
@@BobStephenson-ci2do all the requirements I have stated in this episode apply to both AGM & Lithium battery types. Thanks for supporting the channel👍🏻
@@rdautoelectrics So, once again, why do they, the regulations, specifically refer to Lithium Ion only? I’m in NZ, where these regulations have not yet come into effect, and talking to a electrical inspector recently he was under the same impression, that it was not for Phosphate batterys.
The new regulations are vague regarding lithium, specifying that certain steps must be adhered to for sealing and ventilation of wet, gel, and AGM enclosures and doesn't make any specific mention of lithium requirements, actively leaving out those specific steps. I've been looking for this answer too, however with all the people I've called, buying and scrutinising the standards and also contacting several electrical certifiers as I'll need to have it engineered, they have all said the same thing. Must be sealed from habitable area, preferably with aluminium/steel box, lid screwed down, cable glands for wiring and ventilation through floor/side of van.
So do the regulations state any upgrade to lithium phosphate lifePO4 12v systems can only be installed by an certified installer? Does the regs state anyone DIY fitting life po4 must get certification or signed off?
Hi Gavin,
Thanks for your comment mate.
If you have your system fitted by someone that is unlicensed or you install it yourself then you put not only your safety at risk but also the warranty on the products along with the insurance on your van if something was to go wrong. Also if the installer is not licensed then they also cannot be insured to do the work which is also another risk. If any 240V work is done to the van (i.e inverter installation) then you also need to have the van re-certified for the installation to complaint. There is definitely a lot to be considered and we definitely don’t recommend DIY and always do your research if looking for an installer. Always make sure they include an updated Electrical Safety Certificate in the work you’re planning to have them complete.
Thanks Riley
Can you confirm if these new regulations apply to caravans built before November 2023 when upgrading the existing AGM battery to a Lithium battery, must the new Lithium battery be installed in a sealed box/compartment vented to outside of the van, or can the new Lithium battery be a straight swap over of the AGM battery?
These new regulations apply to all new power systems fitted or any alterations made to existing systems on or after the 23rd of November 2023. In your case swapping out the batteries from AGM to lithium these new regulations would need to be met.
Thanks Riley
@rdautoelectrics cheers Riley. Yes I thought the new regulations would need to be complied with.
@@waynelemmon3007 If you need any further help Wayne please don’t hesitate to contact us.
Thanks Riley
@@rdautoelectrics thank you
So now in the event of an emergency we’ll just shout fire, because we won’t be able to diconect the battery because it’s been sealed, well done to the egg heads that thought this one up.
If you’re that worried about disconnecting the battery you’d place an isolator in an easily accessible spot. Problem solved.
Install a battery post fuse to prevent shorts on the cabling, any system that creates a fire is poorly designed and made.
to confirm 3 panels in series still only need 1 CB ?
Thanks for watching and for the comment Dean! 3 panels would still need a circuit breaker/fusible link on the PV and battery side of the regulator👍🏻
Are you finding that this is increasing the temperature of solar controllers and inverters? I can't imagine a sealed box with a small vent outside being good for heat dissipation.
It’s only the battery that needs to be enclosed in the sealed box, the rest of the components can be in a ventilated location.
Thanks Riley
@@rdautoelectrics thanks Riley, how do you seal the entry for the cables between the battery and inverter etc. ?
How does this apply to portable power?
Only applies to installations with a fixed 15A mains power inlet.
Thanks Riley
why sealed locations--- new batterys do not give off gas or anything to worry about---all van batterys are sealed
Hey bro 😀
How did you get around the fact the drawer is mounted in that compartment with batteries too? Did you need to mount a foam gasket around the drawer to seal it fully from cabin space ornis there a sealed baffle dividing it form the batteries?
Thanks for your comment!🙂
That was actually just a drop down access door on the front of the compartment, not a full drawer. We fitted a foam seal to the inside of the door to ensure it was sealed correctly.
Great video, what I can't understand is why does this apply to LifePO4 batteries , they don't off-gas or emit vapours?
Sometimes not all rules & regulations make sense but we will be following them 100% to ensure all our systems comply.
@@rdautoelectrics thanks for your reply. Perhaps the regulation makers need to be educated, I for one am done with nonsensical rules that don't add up, we need to push back.
They dont off-gas until they go into thermal runaway, so a sealed compartment would at least give a little time for occupants to escape. The gasses given off in that case are extremely toxic.
@@kwilliamsnz exactly. Buy a little time.
@@notaperson3338 that was tried for nearly 2 years, but to no avail. Hence why the regs are :2022 but not implemented until late 2023. Hmmmmm.
Hi mate, what is the Standards number please and thank you.
AS/NZS 3001.2:2022
Ha Ha - Russel Effing Coyt in the Thumbnail.
Had to be done!😉
Thanks. If you seal the battery lid, how do you then service the batteries?
Hi Ben,
The lid has a foam seal and is removable👍🏻
@@rdautoelectrics Phew - I thought the new regulations ensured that to get to the battery for maintenance and checks you had to break the seal and then redo it again.
Thanks for the reply!
Does the vent to outside not need to be unrestricted IE: the same as gas vents so as not to be impaired by dust blocking the vent hole in the filter you have installed? there is the opportunity for the filter to block and /or restrict ventilation !
This is a risk with all vents in any application, hence why we have fitted a “serviceable filter element.” We recommend inspecting the filter every 3 months and we provide a complete service of all our power systems every 12months for 5 years free of charge, which includes removing & cleaning the vent filter.
where can we buy these vents for a retro fit ? TIA. @@rdautoelectrics
You don't identify if these new regs are Federal or State ?
These standards are AUS/NZ
How are you certifying these installations when certification in Western Australia requires an electrical contractors Licence? Are you a licensed electrician?
Correct mate, we have a licensed electrician in-house so we complete both the 12V and 240V side of things for all our customers including the updated electrical safety certificate all under the one roof.
Thanks Riley
Ok. RD Auto Electrics holds a contractors Licence?
When you have your power system installed it will have all the details on the electrical safety certificate which we provide.
Thanks Riley
This must only be for lithium batteries. What is the danger from sealed lead acid? Cannot see how this can protect you from a thermal runaway in a lithium battery.
The new regulations apply to all battery types.
Thanks Riley
Lead acid needs even better ventilation, build up of hydrogen from a gassing battery filling up a cavity doesn't need much of a spark from a switching relay or electrical component, charger, etc to create a big bang.
So if I don't have a 15amp inlet I can put my batteries and wire my panels any way/where I like. Yeah rules are there for a reason haha. Only reason I can see is some rule maker justifying is job existence. This is clearly unsafe as direct and quick access is needed to batteries in case of emergency. To many rules are contrary to safety and I can't believe as an associated technician that you can't see the flaw in this. But I guess ut keeps you guys in the good $$$.
Appreciate your comment and your opinion.
I think you may have missed the whole point of the episode mate! We spent our time putting this episode together to simply help people understand the new regulations and it’s as simple as that. We definitely don’t profit from the new rules or even profit from this episode as we run an unpaid channel purely to help our customers. (Despite it having 75K views)
At the end of the day rules are rules and they need to be followed whether you or I agree with them 100% or not. All the best mate and thanks for supporting the channel.
@@rdautoelectrics I have now checked the "new rules" and I very rarely miss the point if there is one to miss and you didn't answer question.
I think the best safe way is to use the heavy old batteries and put more solar on the roof and cut back on them high energy drawing items and only buy or modify stuff to run on 12volt its so simple and safer , if they the government are concerned about lithium batteries then so am i , ok theres good brands out there but in time they will get old and deterate and could ignite at any time iff locked up in a box under ya couch your history just get out run up wind , if your asleep your dead 😢
If you stick to using good quality Lithium batteries like we do such as Enerdrive & Custom Lithium you will never have a problem. They are fully BMS protected and prevent any possible safety issues. The benefits of lithium over AGM are incredible and if done correctly there is no comparison!
What, batteries that vent of acidic gases and leak liquid, yeah nah. Stick to quality lithium batteries from a reputable supplier and you will have no issues. I haven't got another 300kgs to spare. LiFePo will not ignite or explode.
Nothing in these new regulations seems too onerous and believe it or not, safety regulations are not made tougher just for fun, they’re done because people have been caught out.