We have a small fleet of gas half tons in the northeast, we studied the change to electric. With the release of the F150 Lightning someone in Fomoco marketing stated that it would save about 60% in charging costs over a gasoline truck. For a local/business use case charging the pickup at the shop each night this is about right. A used half ton running on gas around town is 15MPG. At 15,000 miles a year we are at 1,000 gallons of unleaded at $3.35 or $3,350 in fuel costs. Annual engine maintenance items around $400. (California the gas number is $4,600/yr...yikes) In Rhode Island electricity $.22/kwh. Thus the Lightning might be 290 miles for $28.60 or about $1450? around town use case is better than highway use case. If gas prices go up again, the Ford person is right, it is just about 60% less to run the electric truck. The last thing we looked at was residual values. At some point gas pickups will start to depreciate at an above average rate as folks buy more electric trucks. The point here is that electric trucks will depreciate at a "normal rate" but gas ones will experience lower demand on the wholesale auction market and will depreciate quicker. This, I assume will just reward owners for "driving the gas pickup until the wheels fall off."
I live in Connecticut. My supplier charges about 13¢/kWh, but delivery is another 12¢/kWh, so very expensive. On the other hand, the utility pays me $25/month for charging at non peak hours. $25 pays for 400 miles of driving in my Model 3 which gets a bit better than 4miles/kWh. That’s 4800 miles of “free” driving yearly. My charging efficiency is 92%. No premiums for state registration. The utility paid me $1000 for the charger and installation. The IRS gave me a tax credit of $770. So a $2566 install cost me about $800. So it’s complicated.
A very good treatise of EV costs. What bothers me is that people have made this subject a competition. It’s not. If you like ice vehicles then buy/drive one. If you don’t like EV’s because it doesn’t mimic your ice vehicle’s performance that’s fine - “pick the right tool for the job.” But stop bashing EV’s and EV owners. Like it or not, the world of vehicles is changing and EV’s have a place.
Believe it or not you probably would be perfectly fine with charging at 24amps and putting in a 30amp breaker on your 100amp panel. meaning you would only use up max 30% of your panel.. 5.8kw (24amp) would give you 10-80% within 8 hours (overnight), but realistically as you've seen with your level 1 and charging cheaper at work it's not common for you to even need that much. 16amps 220V would be more than enough and only needs a 20amp breaker. Here's the rough math: 16amp (20 amp breaker) = 3.5kw 20amp (30 amp breaker) = 4.8kw 24amp (30 amp breaker) = 5.8kw 32amp (40 amp breaker) = 7.2kw 40amp (50 amp breaker) = 9.6kw 48amp (60 amp breaker) = 11.5kw 80amp (100 amp breaker) = 19.2kw
Thanks for the suggestion! Like you said, even 16amps at 220V would still be a huge improvement (2.5x faster) over 12amps at 110V. I'll definitely consider it.
Well said. As EVs mostly sit at home or work, time to charge is a resource to be utilized. It’s awesome, however, how EV’s onboard chargers have evolved. My 2011 Nissan Leaf, 24 kWh battery charged at 16 amps, 3.6. My Hyundai Ioniq 5 had a max rate of over 10! That’s 15 mph Leaf, over 45 mph Ioniq. At home a 240V/30A EVSE charges the Ioniq at 6.6 A, plenty. No need to change EVSE! Thanks.
Great information, I really appreciate your doing this. On your Level 2 charging at home -- the credit for energy improvements includes covering up to $4000 of the cost of a panel upgrade and 30% (up to $1000) of the cost of installing a L2 charging port.
Our electric rates are 18 cents per KWh. But, we put in solar panels. We try to only charge our two EV’s on excess solar. If we were paying to charge them the ChargePoint app says we would have paid $51 in February and $50 in March. We mainly drive the F-150 Lightning which is less efficient than the Kia EV6, but the truck is more comfortable for us.
Thanks for this. We just put solar panels up and I don’t live far from work. Can probably get away with charging only on weekends while the sun is out. GA Power also gives rebates on charging ports.
I include losses as part of the cost to charge the car. The energy is consumed and part of the cost of operation. As far as my cost of electricity. We have a very nice deal of a nickel a kilowatt via a renewable energy plan. Still, 99% of my charging is done at work where my employer provides free charging for us EV owners. My Partner does all of his charging at home, but puts few miles per year on our Bolt. I've still managed to find DC charging to beat gasoline costs on road trips. Our last trip from N.E. Ohio, to Vancouver, WA only cost us $194 to get there. Our trip total was around the $500 mark including running all over the Vancouver and Portland areas including a trip to the Oregon coast. We do drive slower to maximize range, and this is a huge help. Our trip car and my commuter car is a 2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5 AWD Limited.
Definitely agree on the losses. It's a little hard to calculate exactly how much is lost. I mention this near the end of the video since I was trying to keep the calculations at the beginning of the video as simple as possible. That's great you have a free charging option at work!
We upgraded to a 200 amp panel. We saved $ by reusing the breakers from our 100amp panel. We installed the Ford Connected Charger and it works well, it's 48amp on a 60 amp breaker and charges fast for level 2. It's hardwired with copper wiring, I feel it's a safer option but more expensive.
The hardwired option usually results in a better connection. I've seen reports of bad electrical sockets melting when EV charging. Tom at State of Charge has a good video about it here: czcams.com/video/_JlMOzx44ss/video.htmlsi=MISEwhqH1qZhlooQ&t=360
You can put in a load share circuit to steal the dryer. The circuit will only let one or the other run. So turning on dryer stops ev charging for example. It's a possible solution to not upgrade your panel. AL is $200 tag fee. AL power has a EV night charging discount of 1.7155¢ per kWh during the hours of 9pm and 5am. And a $500 rebate towards installing a level 2 charger at home. Normal rates around 13¢ per kWh.
@@studzstudios I use the Emporia EVSE and the home energy monitoring to see my realtime and historic energy usage. You can set a peak amount and it can reduce or turn off the EVSE to meet it. You can also set a charging schedule. There are other solutions out there as well.
Thanks for the objective assessment. My experience with the same vehicle over 4.5 months agrees with your experience except the EV supplemental charge is $221 in Indiana. I do most of my charging in town where the first two hours are convenient and "free" for 6.6 kW level 2. Additional time equates to $0.31/kWh but I rarely go over 2 hours. So far I'm projecting $150 for 8000 miles of driving this year. My only gripe about MME is that it is a rather boring vehicle. The 0-60mph acceleration is quite satisfying but 60+ acceleration is lackluster. Forget about reaching 120. It makes me really appreciate my 2011 335d. Ironically when the brouhaha this winter about failed charging in Chicago was in the news, I took my wife to work in the MME because her ICE wouldn't start at -6degF.
Charging at home seriously puts you ahead if you are sensibly able to install grid tied net metered PV on your house at a scale that covers your daily drive + a little extra. Charging vehicles brings your payback time down significantly and that's just with cost of electricity, it really saves when comparing fuel savings. EVs when comparing to an ICE counterpart on cost need to keep in mind performance. With most EVs you get an immediate upgrade in fun normal driving experience that can only be reproduced in an ICE vehicle by sacrificing fuel economy. I personally believe PHEVs with 50 mi EV range minimum would be the ideal solution. Most people going to solar will need a 200A service which needs to be factored in and that's also necessary for EVs if you need more than a couple EVs daily needs met.
7.9 cents per kwh at super off-peak (11:00pm-5:00am) in Mesa, AZ. 2024 Mach-E Premium Extended Range 2WD. Saving 85% over the gas we were buying for a '17 Subaru Outback. No more gas pains!
I live in Seattle area in summer and Sonora, Mexico in winter. GasBuddy says that regular gas at Costco is $US4.33 per gallon. Residential electricity is between $0.12 : $0.13 per KwH. Guaymas gasoline is 25.29 Pesos per liter. 25.29 * 3.789 = 95.82 Pesos per gallon / 16.69 = $US5.74 per gallon. Residential electricity is cheap in Mexico. It is tiered based on usage. 1.027 Pesos per KwH at the first tier. 1.251 Pesos per Kwh at the second tier. Or about 1.251 / 16.69 = $US0.075 per KwH. The third tier is more expensive 3.134 Pesos per KwH / 16.69 = $US0.1877 per KwH. If one has an electric car the first tier will likely be used by the house - so a blend of tier 2 and tier 3 is expected.
The problem in California is the Power company workaround to the rate limitations placed by government called Distribution fees. we charged both cars weekly (Mach E and Ocean) and the bill went up to $800. Not worth charging at home when your landlord signs on with Con(vict)serv. I travel 400 miles weekly and have complimentary charging at the hotel I stay at. I DC fast charge once at home at $14 to $25, then charge twice at the hotel. Overall, I am very pleased with the EV purchase.
In MN I pay 13¢/kWh but we have an off hour EV charging plan which costs $16 a month but knocks down the electric cost of charging to 3¢/kWh. The $16 a month comes with the rental and installation of an L2 charger.
Unfortunately, the one huge factor that negates the EV cost savings with fuel, is the cost of insurance. EV insurance premiums are double. With our Model S, our insurance premium doubled. So unfortunately, no savings in the big picture.
I have not had this issue. Our Bolt and Ioniq 5 had no impact on our overall insurance costs. In fact, when we insured these vehicles, the rate went down slightly as they were introduced to our "fleet" (currently four vehicles insured).
@@wolfman9999999I did not find that moving to electric vehicle had that type of impact to our insurance. When we traded in our gas F-150 to the F-150 Lightning there was a small increase which i would attribute to the price difference and year. Could the doubling of your insurance actually be because of those reasons, not the fact it was an EV?
@@owenjohnson5030 I think you replied to the wrong post. My experience has been similar to yours, albeit a slight decrease in my rates each time we added an EV to our policy.
What were you driving prior the Model S? That shouldn't be an EV vs. Gas difference. My insurance stayed roughly the same from my prior gas Mustang GT. My theory is even though the GT was older, the accident risk was higher. The Mach-E is newer and worth more, but lower accident risk.
Keep in mind that most people will not drain their tank every day. Most people will use less than 50 miles per day so with the home Level 2 charger (7.4kW) you're looking at roughly 2 hours to top it off at night. The average commute in the US is actually only 30 miles per day which would take only about 90 minutes every evening.
If I am charging at the one workplace I go to that has Level 2 charging, cost is 1 dollar for 8 kw. That equals 5 cents a mile approx. Gas cost if I got 40 miles per gallon would be 12.5 cents per mile. My electricity at home is much more expensive, but still less expensive than gas.
On 1,000 mile plus road trips the cost has basically been equivalent to 32 MPG for my Kia Niro EV at ~3miles/kw. It's a completely different scenario with work commutes and charging at home. Don't have to math off the top of my head about that portion but it's way cheaper.
I have solar panels on my house and a battery backup system. So my home charging rates are much lower than just using the utility power alone. Also, the battery backup system allows me to charge at night when I am home. This combination makes sense if you are charging your car at home most of the time. Compared to gasoline, you CAN'T make your own gasoline at home. But you CAN make your own electricity. So if you are a home owner with rooftop solar then EV's are definitely the way to go. FYI, this video only compares gasoline costs per mile versus watts per mile. There is no mention of the fact that EV's require much less maintenance than gas powered cars. That's another huge savings EV's give you over gasoline powered cars.
Thanks for the video. I’m considering buying a mach-e and doing my due diligence before hand. I live in Orange County where everything is expensive. Gas about 4.50 a gallon-ish. I specifically live in Anaheim where my first 305KWH a month is discounted to .12 (thanks to disneyland subsidizing the city). Anything after the 305KWH in a month is then .1974
Thanks for sharing! $0.12 is pretty decent, but you will probably eat through 305kWh pretty quickly if you're doing a lot of charging at home + household electric use. It will obviously depend on how much you drive. I'd expect you'd get some great efficiency though with stop/go traffic and warm weather. I'd guess you'd be in the 3-4 miles/kWh range, which definitely helps.
Definitely. I didn't factor that in here since I wanted to focus specifically on the electricity vs. gas costs. Definitely will do a future video after some more time goes by on ownership costs and factor these types of things in.
Wow, I'm screwed, central California, .53 per kWh at low tier and .80 at tier 3. Ev charging rates require a dedicated monitoring subpanel, at slightly reduced rates. Huge thanks on this overview, really helps me out.
Yea California rates are wild. The new power rate rules are gonna make that weird too, but there's still value in something like installing solar and being able to provide your own power sometimes.
It's not just the savings on gas. There are oil and other fluid changes to do on ICE cars and while you are in for those things you run the risk of being sold a bunch of other things your car may or may not need. It's hard to put a number to all that unless you have kept track of the total cost to maintain your gas car in the past. After two years and 25k miles our Tesla model 3 has had zero maintenance. I replaced the cabin air filter just because I have allergies. Everyone said the tires would wear out but they are fine. My Cadillac ATS wore out those same model of tires after only 20k. Maybe that's because the Tesla psi is 42 vs on the ATS it was 36.
Definitely! I focused just on the electricity vs. gas costs for this video. After some more time goes by, I plan to give a more comprehensive ownership cost comparison for the Mach-E vs. my prior gasoline vehicles.
You don’t need to go full NEMA 14-50. If you have an electric dryer, tap into that line. Still faster than level 1 charging. Didn’t even need to upgrade my panel.
Yeah, that's a great suggestion. Another viewer suggested this as well. Even going from 110V/12amps to 220V/16-24amps would be a big speed improvement.
National average for home electricity is $0.24/kWh (energy + grid/utility + taxes ). You should include all when you calculate home charging expenses. Somehow everybody doing these calculations miss that. That $0.06/kWh at work is a steal.
Great point about the additional fees on home charging! If I add in all the fees, I'm between $0.11-0.12 cents/kWh (base rate without fees is between $0.08-0.09). However, I consider many of those fees a sunk cost since I have to pay these anyway to have electricity at my home (EV or not). So the additional cost to charge the EV is a little bit less, and that's where I came up with the $0.10 cents/kWh number for my home charging.
You could share your dryer circuit and have a switch so you could only use either the dryer or switch to the car charger outlet. I have a 100 amp panel and charge using the 30amp circuit I share with my dryer. Cheers
Yes, you pay more to register an EV in your state but you are not paying for oil changes… So far, I enjoy the Tesla model Y so much. It’s fast and when I take long road trips in it, I pay $99 for the month( used to be $199/month) for the full self driving. It drives me to and from my destination. Great camping car. Even if it gets to cost the same at some point to charge, you are still saving on repair costs due to much less moving parts.
@@studzstudios Thank you! Yes, went on long road trip to Florida from Maine and back ( for one month). Stayed at campgrounds where I can also charge the car while sleeping in it in camp mode. Also stayed at Luvs, Flying Js and Cracker Barrel’s. One night at a Walmart parking lot with my sister who was in her van from Colorado and two other ladies in the SUVs and camper. Going again next month. The Dog Mode and Camp Mode are a game changer for me and the Full Self Driving drove me back home at night in a snow storm. It got so bad that even that feature could not work due to poor visibility for the cameras and then I found a rest stop to wait till daylight. I used to have throaty performance cars but don’t miss the sound because of all the pluses. Car came with the 110 adapter and the J1172. I purchased 30 amp and 50 amp EV ( not RV) adapters and CCS adapters and 10 gauge extension cord to charge almost anywhere. So much fun for camping⛺️👍
1:24 DC Fast Charging is the proper name. Level 3 is not. Hate to be a stickler and ultimately it doesn't really matter what you call it, but just FYI.
I usually say DC Fast Charging, but organized by L1/L2/L3 in the video. The industry seems to use both interchangeably. For example: www.caranddriver.com/research/a41803552/ev-charging-levels/
Plus, how much you paid for the car. Electric cars are more expensive than gas cars overall. I don’t know if it makes that much of a difference but it does make a difference probably. But you got it all figured out mostly.
Yeah, new electric vehicles are still more expensive up-front, but the long term savings (like gas savings) should be better in the long run like you mentioned. I'll see for sure in the long run!
I only payed $32,100 for my 2023 Tesla Model 3 RWD. Adding in a trade in of a 2012 Forester with 108k miles on it, the final price was $24,875 (included state and federal incentives, sales tax, registration, etc). That seemed like a good deal to me. The utility gives me $25/month for charging off peak. That works out to 400 “free” miles/month or 4,800 miles/yr or 48,000 miles over 10 years.
Since electric and gasoline rates vary so much, I usually try to keep it simple. Just say Long distance travel using commercial electricity costs about the same as gasoline. Stop-and-go driving costs half as much, and using your own electricity costs half as much. So for most of my driving, my Ford F150 EV is four times cheaper than my old V8 Chevy Silverado, even though it has way more torque and power. Also, the EV requires no oil changes, and the brakes will never wear out. 😊
@@studzstudios I compare what is the battery’s capacity to what it takes from wall plug. Yes 58-60 cents with PGE in California. Delivery charge + generation charge tier2 off peak ToU-C rate
Insurance cost is hard to compare since it varies based on so many factors. My insurance costs are comparable to my prior gas vehicle (gas Mustang). That vehicle was worth less, but was also higher accident risk.
Can anyone tell me how to delete the "FORD MOTOR COMPANY" program from my car memory. This automatically send my charging bill to Ford. I do not have an option when I plug in to charge my Mach -E.
I believe you are referring to "Plug and Charge" which is Ford's way to automatically handle all of the charging billing for you without having to activate the charger manually with your phone or on the charger itself. This simplifies paying for charging since you don't have to have separate accounts set-up with multiple other companies (Electrify America, Tesla, EVGo, ChargePoint, etc.). With your car having your billing information, you can just plug in and let it handle it if the station supports plug and charge. The disadvantage is plug and charge doesn't support the discounted charging memberships that Electrify America and Tesla offer, so you may not want to use it if you have a membership with lower priced charging. If you don't want to use plug and charge, just activate the charger before plugging it into your car with your phone or with a credit card at the charger. (Not all chargers support payment with a card though.) You can also log into your account on Ford's website and go to: My Account --> Connected Services --> BlueOval Charge Network --> Manage --> And then edit your billing info or if you don't want it, click "Cancel Service".
Pointless video. If you are doing only 7000 miles per year then the gas price is irrelevant. The price is so low that you can ignore it and chose what's more suitable for for myself gas or battery car
I primarily wanted to show the cost breakdown and how much the costs can vary depending on the situation. I agree that my savings so far wouldn't be the primary deciding factor of going EV, but it's a nice benefit and will continue to add up over time.
Probably better to start with solar power just to drive down your electric bill first and see what happens before buying either a pure play plug in or plug in hybrid. The other issue at hand remains the insane electronics on modern vehicles in particular cameras and safety systems but not exclusive to that. Trying to "harden" that against corrosion and what not has been a monumental challenge to the extant Industry causing imo vehicle values to start to really go off a cliff as despite enormous expense said electric systems detract not add value at least for the time being. Tesla does appear to be changing that as does Ford as will presumably GM as will presumably Rivian currently the "Big 4" in all electrics upon in North America. As far as residual values pure play ICE Platform machines hold up far better although how the PHEV market holds up could definitely be a gamechanger as a pure play ICE works at ideal when idling whereas pure play BEV works ideally when run 24/7/365 or as a Daily Driver. Not sure I would recommend a pure play BEV unless one has a side gig as an Uber, Lyft or Turo operator or are doing speciality work such as with construction or lawn care or delivery work. Still is remarkable to see both adoption rates and improvements in build quality in pure play BEV that continue by leaps and bounds with #irony Tesla one of the least good on that front and hence possibly why depreciation of Teslas have been so spectacular of late. The outright cost of solar and solar installation is starting to plunge though as well would could be what drives demand for the next leg of growth for pure play BEVs big time which if true is great news for both Tesla (all in) and Ford (least committed.) GM and Rivian might have some serious issues here as pure play ICE capabilities and reliability are starting to improve tremendously and PHEVs are starting to surge in popularity and sales growth as well. By way of specific example if Subaru comes out with a PHEV this Fall Model Year 2025 that could have a huge impact on the US automotive market despite having sales on or about equal to Tesla (for now) as there is such Brand Loyalty to Subaru similar to Toyota. Also Tesla Cybertruck might change the entire US economy period if sales of that massive pure play BEV starts to ramp up as this truck can be used to do all the installation work for solar installs plus vehicle support etc. Both Rivian and Ford make pure play BEV Vans as well and for some time now which again can be used in house for Fleet Sustainment and for commercial work.😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Expanding on your point about electronics in vehicles, I think some of the issue with desirability is how quickly things become outdated/obsolete even if it was cutting edge a few years ago.
Insurance cost is hard to compare since it varies based on so many factors. My insurance costs are comparable to my prior gas vehicle (gas Mustang). That vehicle was worth less, but was also a higher accident risk.
Yeah, looking forward to faster charging for the road trip case. For in-town charging at home it's more convenient than gas. On road trips the time adds up. If you can find good charging stops and use the time take care of other things (eat, restroom, clean the windshield, let your kids run around, etc.) it helps minimize the time actually added to the trip.
Good video. However, I don’t quite agree with your assumption that an equivalent ICE vehicle with the same performance can be high 20mpg. They are more likely low 20s, even below that in stop and go traffic with little highway miles. Based on the general price of gas in CA, I probably save $4.5K on 15K miles based on my wife’s SUV (which took premium at 16.8 mpg (shudder)). But I had planned to go electric years ago and installed a 8.5kW solar system at home last year. With the current spikes in electricity in CA, my breakeven is about 4 years or less right now.
Fair point! I was trying to be as optimistic as possible on an equivalent gas car since I was expecting some comments about how gas cars get way better mileage than 20mpg. :)
Yeah, the Mach-E's charging times aren't the fastest. (115kW peak for my standard range NCM battery, 150kW peak for the extended range NCM or newer standard range LFP battery). Obviously charging time is going to vary for everyone depending on the vehicle, charger, battery size, state of charge, temperature, etc.
It's all debatable until you average in the cost of tires and battery replacement. At that point the argument falls apart and that is why EVs will never truly be mainstream.
My hope is the replacement costs in ~15 years from now (when the majority of EVs from this era need a replacement) will be much lower than they are today, but only time will tell
Interesting take. What does it cost to replace a transmission, that will likely fail long before the motors or high voltage battery in an EV? Oil changes? Spark plugs? Stop spreading disinformation. EVs are much less expensive to run, period.
@@djbigmax1687 01:41 Lol, sorry, no. Many batteries are already being replaced at a huge cost. In many instances the vehicles are simply scrapped. On what planet does a battery outlast a transmission?
Tricky comparisons. Most EVs are high-performance vehicles, and those tend to cost more to insure. Gasoline vehicles keep getting more expensive while electric vehicles keep getting cheaper. While that continues, EV depreciation will be worse. EV lifespan should be better, since they are mechanically very simple.
I'll do it for you. I'm Massachusetts insurance are same but you can ask your broker. Every car depreciates. Most people have a car for 8-10 years. By that point every car will be around $10k. EV are shown to outlast the ownership. Batteries are going well over 250k miles with only 10-15 percent degradation. They are not like your lead acid battery. Next Gen LFP batteries will go a million miles easy. Buy an EV if you have cheap rates of less than 20 cents per KWH. If not run your car until it dies, by then the new LFP will be amazing. End 24, 2025 LFP will take off. In the mean time, I'm loving my model y.
@@TheLobo91 There is a lot of broad prospective statements in this. "EV are shown to outlast the ownership" - Tesla released the Model S in 2014, so they are no where near enough data points on long term
@@paulward4175 average person has a car for 8.5 years. The original owner has most likely sold that vehicle and it's in the used market. So my point was don't worry about the vehicle battery dieing like a lot of people say. That vehicle will most likely out last the original owner. Also tesla has an 8 year warranty on battery so don't worry about that either. My prediction is once they come out with LFP Tesla along with others will warranty their batteries for 500k-1million miles. It's cheaper to replace the pack on warranty then lose market share and stock price like they are doing now. Also we have plenty of data showing battery degradation which sits around 10-15 percent.
Insurance costs vary significantly depending on where you live, driving history, age, coverage you cary, etc. I think that'd be hard to give a number that is helpful. As for depreciation and vehicle lifespan, I think I'll cover these topics after more time goes by. Every vehicle takes a big depreciation hit in the first year and the Mach-E is no exception. What will be interesting is what happens to the value over the next few years, especially if newer redesigns of the Mach-E come out.
Why are you using that 0.86 cents for gas again? When was the last time was that low? The 1970's? The 80's? Even the $2.00 is fairly unrealistic. As per electrical losses, you using a level 1 charger cause way more loses than a level 2. Is that what you use at work at least? A 240v level 2 connection? As per the efficiency, that 2kw per mile is more for heavier EV trucks. In fact, the Rivian R1T gets about 2.8 per mile when not towing on average. The Mach-E can't be that inefficient.
My electric costs/efficiency are the equivalent of filing up with gas for roughly $0.86 cents/gallon. And yes, work is a level 2 240V/30amp charger. The Mach-E's efficiency is definitely much better in warmer weather, in the 3-4 mi/kWh range. Like I mentioned in the video, I don't totally trust the display's calculation.
More disinformation. I own 2 EV’s. The cost to fill up at home is NOT the cost listed per kWh (I.e. $.10 cents - $.15 cents per kWh) the electric company always adds other fees as well (state and local taxes, fuel and energy costs, energy transmission costs, low income family spread-the-costs, etc). you’re looking at closer to $.20 - $.30 cents per kWh. Nobody ever tells the truth on true home charging costs.
My electric rate INCLUDES taxes, etc is 14 cents average per charge. I installed a 50 amp receptacle myself, my panel is in the utility room. So same garage inner wall. Went thru panel box thru into the receptacle. Use my provided charge cable from Ford for my Lightning. It’s was about 45 dollars for small piece of wire, breaker, Receptacle, box, etc. So in summary it varies from each installation. You can’t say misinformation since everyone’s situation is different! I am telling the truth about my experience!
Yeah this also varies wildly to location. My electric rate is 10 cents per kWh, I have a 2023 Tesla Model 3 with a 58kWh pack and charged it basically 0 to 100 3 times at home in the first full month and it added $18 to my bill. That's $6 per charge which is almost exact to my per kWh rate.
Great point about the additional fees on home electric rates! Where I am it's actually not too bad. If I add in all the fees, I'm between $0.11-0.12 cents/kWh (base rate without fees is between $0.08-0.09). However, I consider many of those fees a sunk cost since I have to pay these anyway to have electricity at my home (EV or not). So the additional cost to charge the EV is a little bit less, and that's where I came up with the $0.10 cents/kWh number for my home charging.
We have a small fleet of gas half tons in the northeast, we studied the change to electric. With the release of the F150 Lightning someone in Fomoco marketing stated that it would save about 60% in charging costs over a gasoline truck. For a local/business use case charging the pickup at the shop each night this is about right. A used half ton running on gas around town is 15MPG. At 15,000 miles a year we are at 1,000 gallons of unleaded at $3.35 or $3,350 in fuel costs. Annual engine maintenance items around $400. (California the gas number is $4,600/yr...yikes)
In Rhode Island electricity $.22/kwh. Thus the Lightning might be 290 miles for $28.60 or about $1450? around town use case is better than highway use case. If gas prices go up again, the Ford person is right, it is just about 60% less to run the electric truck.
The last thing we looked at was residual values. At some point gas pickups will start to depreciate at an above average rate as folks buy more electric trucks. The point here is that electric trucks will depreciate at a "normal rate" but gas ones will experience lower demand on the wholesale auction market and will depreciate quicker. This, I assume will just reward owners for "driving the gas pickup until the wheels fall off."
Interesting point about gas vs. electric vehicle depreciation in the future. I hadn't considered this.
As an ev owner this was helpful. Thank you 🙏🏼
I live in Connecticut. My supplier charges about 13¢/kWh, but delivery is another 12¢/kWh, so very expensive. On the other hand, the utility pays me $25/month for charging at non peak hours. $25 pays for 400 miles of driving in my Model 3 which gets a bit better than 4miles/kWh. That’s 4800 miles of “free” driving yearly. My charging efficiency is 92%. No premiums for state registration. The utility paid me $1000 for the charger and installation. The IRS gave me a tax credit of $770. So a $2566 install cost me about $800. So it’s complicated.
Thanks for sharing!
A very good treatise of EV costs. What bothers me is that people have made this subject a competition. It’s not. If you like ice vehicles then buy/drive one. If you don’t like EV’s because it doesn’t mimic your ice vehicle’s performance that’s fine - “pick the right tool for the job.” But stop bashing EV’s and EV owners. Like it or not, the world of vehicles is changing and EV’s have a place.
Believe it or not you probably would be perfectly fine with charging at 24amps and putting in a 30amp breaker on your 100amp panel. meaning you would only use up max 30% of your panel.. 5.8kw (24amp) would give you 10-80% within 8 hours (overnight), but realistically as you've seen with your level 1 and charging cheaper at work it's not common for you to even need that much. 16amps 220V would be more than enough and only needs a 20amp breaker. Here's the rough math:
16amp (20 amp breaker) = 3.5kw
20amp (30 amp breaker) = 4.8kw
24amp (30 amp breaker) = 5.8kw
32amp (40 amp breaker) = 7.2kw
40amp (50 amp breaker) = 9.6kw
48amp (60 amp breaker) = 11.5kw
80amp (100 amp breaker) = 19.2kw
Thanks for the suggestion! Like you said, even 16amps at 220V would still be a huge improvement (2.5x faster) over 12amps at 110V. I'll definitely consider it.
@@studzstudiosThe air compressor style 240@20A outlet is perfect, just add a nema 6-20 EVSE
Well said. As EVs mostly sit at home or work, time to charge is a resource to be utilized. It’s awesome, however, how EV’s onboard chargers have evolved. My 2011 Nissan Leaf, 24 kWh battery charged at 16 amps, 3.6. My Hyundai Ioniq 5 had a max rate of over 10! That’s 15 mph Leaf, over 45 mph Ioniq. At home a 240V/30A EVSE charges the Ioniq at 6.6 A, plenty. No need to change EVSE! Thanks.
Great information, I really appreciate your doing this. On your Level 2 charging at home -- the credit for energy improvements includes covering up to $4000 of the cost of a panel upgrade and 30% (up to $1000) of the cost of installing a L2 charging port.
Thanks for the reminder about this! I'll need to factor this in if I consider making any upgrades with my home charging.
Our electric rates are 18 cents per KWh. But, we put in solar panels. We try to only charge our two EV’s on excess solar. If we were paying to charge them the ChargePoint app says we would have paid $51 in February and $50 in March. We mainly drive the F-150 Lightning which is less efficient than the Kia EV6, but the truck is more comfortable for us.
Thanks for sharing!
Very good information, will help a lot of with questions people have about charging at home.
Thanks for this. We just put solar panels up and I don’t live far from work. Can probably get away with charging only on weekends while the sun is out. GA Power also gives rebates on charging ports.
I include losses as part of the cost to charge the car. The energy is consumed and part of the cost of operation. As far as my cost of electricity. We have a very nice deal of a nickel a kilowatt via a renewable energy plan. Still, 99% of my charging is done at work where my employer provides free charging for us EV owners. My Partner does all of his charging at home, but puts few miles per year on our Bolt. I've still managed to find DC charging to beat gasoline costs on road trips. Our last trip from N.E. Ohio, to Vancouver, WA only cost us $194 to get there. Our trip total was around the $500 mark including running all over the Vancouver and Portland areas including a trip to the Oregon coast. We do drive slower to maximize range, and this is a huge help. Our trip car and my commuter car is a 2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5 AWD Limited.
Definitely agree on the losses. It's a little hard to calculate exactly how much is lost. I mention this near the end of the video since I was trying to keep the calculations at the beginning of the video as simple as possible. That's great you have a free charging option at work!
Great video, thanks for the comparison. I’ve done some of that on my channel as well. Keep up the good work!
Thanks! I will check out your channel!
We upgraded to a 200 amp panel. We saved $ by reusing the breakers from our 100amp panel. We installed the Ford Connected Charger and it works well, it's 48amp on a 60 amp breaker and charges fast for level 2. It's hardwired with copper wiring, I feel it's a safer option but more expensive.
Nice! That sounds like a great set-up.
Why would it be safer?
The hardwired option usually results in a better connection. I've seen reports of bad electrical sockets melting when EV charging. Tom at State of Charge has a good video about it here: czcams.com/video/_JlMOzx44ss/video.htmlsi=MISEwhqH1qZhlooQ&t=360
Nice reporting. I would add that if you have an EV like a Tesla, that can charge a Level 3 up to 250 kW, the time is about half of the Mach-e.
For sure. The Mach-E's charging speed isn't breaking any records.
Here in California I haven't seen $4.00/gallon gas in years. Your table should have gone out to $6.00.
Haha, fair point!
You can put in a load share circuit to steal the dryer. The circuit will only let one or the other run. So turning on dryer stops ev charging for example. It's a possible solution to not upgrade your panel. AL is $200 tag fee. AL power has a EV night charging discount of 1.7155¢ per kWh during the hours of 9pm and 5am. And a $500 rebate towards installing a level 2 charger at home. Normal rates around 13¢ per kWh.
Thanks for the info! Sharing with the dryer definitely seems like a good option. I'll consider it!
@@studzstudios I use the Emporia EVSE and the home energy monitoring to see my realtime and historic energy usage. You can set a peak amount and it can reduce or turn off the EVSE to meet it. You can also set a charging schedule. There are other solutions out there as well.
Thanks for the objective assessment. My experience with the same vehicle over 4.5 months agrees with your experience except the EV supplemental charge is $221 in Indiana. I do most of my charging in town where the first two hours are convenient and "free" for 6.6 kW level 2. Additional time equates to $0.31/kWh but I rarely go over 2 hours. So far I'm projecting $150 for 8000 miles of driving this year. My only gripe about MME is that it is a rather boring vehicle. The 0-60mph acceleration is quite satisfying but 60+ acceleration is lackluster. Forget about reaching 120. It makes me really appreciate my 2011 335d. Ironically when the brouhaha this winter about failed charging in Chicago was in the news, I took my wife to work in the MME because her ICE wouldn't start at -6degF.
Thanks for sharing your cost notes and experience!
ICE was too cold to run. Much amused.
Charging at home seriously puts you ahead if you are sensibly able to install grid tied net metered PV on your house at a scale that covers your daily drive + a little extra. Charging vehicles brings your payback time down significantly and that's just with cost of electricity, it really saves when comparing fuel savings. EVs when comparing to an ICE counterpart on cost need to keep in mind performance. With most EVs you get an immediate upgrade in fun normal driving experience that can only be reproduced in an ICE vehicle by sacrificing fuel economy. I personally believe PHEVs with 50 mi EV range minimum would be the ideal solution.
Most people going to solar will need a 200A service which needs to be factored in and that's also necessary for EVs if you need more than a couple EVs daily needs met.
Agreed, if you have good electric rates for most of your charging, it can really add up to some significant savings.
7.9 cents per kwh at super off-peak (11:00pm-5:00am) in Mesa, AZ. 2024 Mach-E Premium Extended Range 2WD. Saving 85% over the gas we were buying for a '17 Subaru Outback. No more gas pains!
Nice, 7.9 is pretty decent since you can add quite a bit of energy in that 6 hour window.
Difficult to track try adding a off grid solar system in to the mix lol 😂… and I’m building one also planning on adding a car charger to it
I live in Seattle area in summer and Sonora, Mexico in winter. GasBuddy says that regular gas at Costco is $US4.33 per gallon. Residential electricity is between $0.12 : $0.13 per KwH.
Guaymas gasoline is 25.29 Pesos per liter. 25.29 * 3.789 = 95.82 Pesos per gallon / 16.69 = $US5.74 per gallon. Residential electricity is cheap in Mexico. It is tiered based on usage. 1.027 Pesos per KwH at the first tier. 1.251 Pesos per Kwh at the second tier. Or about 1.251 / 16.69 = $US0.075 per KwH. The third tier is more expensive 3.134 Pesos per KwH / 16.69 = $US0.1877 per KwH. If one has an electric car the first tier will likely be used by the house - so a blend of tier 2 and tier 3 is expected.
Thanks for sharing!
The problem in California is the Power company workaround to the rate limitations placed by government called Distribution fees. we charged both cars weekly (Mach E and Ocean) and the bill went up to $800. Not worth charging at home when your landlord signs on with Con(vict)serv. I travel 400 miles weekly and have complimentary charging at the hotel I stay at. I DC fast charge once at home at $14 to $25, then charge twice at the hotel. Overall, I am very pleased with the EV purchase.
Wow, $800 over what period of time? One month? The complimentary charging at the hotel definitely sounds like the way to go.
In MN I pay 13¢/kWh but we have an off hour EV charging plan which costs $16 a month but knocks down the electric cost of charging to 3¢/kWh. The $16 a month comes with the rental and installation of an L2 charger.
Thanks for sharing, that's interesting! That $16 pays for itself pretty quickly at a $0.03/kWh electric rate.
Thank you. Great analysis. Very informative.
Unfortunately, the one huge factor that negates the EV cost savings with fuel, is the cost of insurance. EV insurance premiums are double. With our Model S, our insurance premium doubled. So unfortunately, no savings in the big picture.
I have not had this issue. Our Bolt and Ioniq 5 had no impact on our overall insurance costs. In fact, when we insured these vehicles, the rate went down slightly as they were introduced to our "fleet" (currently four vehicles insured).
@@wolfman9999999I did not find that moving to electric vehicle had that type of impact to our insurance. When we traded in our gas F-150 to the F-150 Lightning there was a small increase which i would attribute to the price difference and year. Could the doubling of your insurance actually be because of those reasons, not the fact it was an EV?
@@owenjohnson5030 I think you replied to the wrong post. My experience has been similar to yours, albeit a slight decrease in my rates each time we added an EV to our policy.
What were you driving prior the Model S? That shouldn't be an EV vs. Gas difference. My insurance stayed roughly the same from my prior gas Mustang GT. My theory is even though the GT was older, the accident risk was higher. The Mach-E is newer and worth more, but lower accident risk.
@@studzstudios 2018 Toyota Landcruiser
Keep in mind that most people will not drain their tank every day. Most people will use less than 50 miles per day so with the home Level 2 charger (7.4kW) you're looking at roughly 2 hours to top it off at night. The average commute in the US is actually only 30 miles per day which would take only about 90 minutes every evening.
For sure. I used numbers for most of the battery capacity for the gas comparison.
If I am charging at the one workplace I go to that has Level 2 charging, cost is 1 dollar for 8 kw. That equals 5 cents a mile approx. Gas cost if I got 40 miles per gallon would be 12.5 cents per mile. My electricity at home is much more expensive, but still less expensive than gas.
On 1,000 mile plus road trips the cost has basically been equivalent to 32 MPG for my Kia Niro EV at ~3miles/kw. It's a completely different scenario with work commutes and charging at home. Don't have to math off the top of my head about that portion but it's way cheaper.
Thanks for sharing!
I have solar panels on my house and a battery backup system. So my home charging rates are much lower than just using the utility power alone. Also, the battery backup system allows me to charge at night when I am home. This combination makes sense if you are charging your car at home most of the time. Compared to gasoline, you CAN'T make your own gasoline at home. But you CAN make your own electricity. So if you are a home owner with rooftop solar then EV's are definitely the way to go. FYI, this video only compares gasoline costs per mile versus watts per mile. There is no mention of the fact that EV's require much less maintenance than gas powered cars. That's another huge savings EV's give you over gasoline powered cars.
Thanks for the comment. Definitely will do a future video after some more time goes by on ownership costs and factor these types of things in.
Thanks for the video. I’m considering buying a mach-e and doing my due diligence before hand.
I live in Orange County where everything is expensive. Gas about 4.50 a gallon-ish.
I specifically live in Anaheim where my first 305KWH a month is discounted to .12 (thanks to disneyland subsidizing the city). Anything after the 305KWH in a month is then .1974
Thanks for sharing! $0.12 is pretty decent, but you will probably eat through 305kWh pretty quickly if you're doing a lot of charging at home + household electric use. It will obviously depend on how much you drive. I'd expect you'd get some great efficiency though with stop/go traffic and warm weather. I'd guess you'd be in the 3-4 miles/kWh range, which definitely helps.
Also with an ICE vehicle you have oil changes and other maintenance not associated with EV. Brake pads wear much faster as an example.
Definitely. I didn't factor that in here since I wanted to focus specifically on the electricity vs. gas costs. Definitely will do a future video after some more time goes by on ownership costs and factor these types of things in.
Wow, I'm screwed, central California, .53 per kWh at low tier and .80 at tier 3. Ev charging rates require a dedicated monitoring subpanel, at slightly reduced rates.
Huge thanks on this overview, really helps me out.
Glad it helped. Your gas prices are probably higher than what my table showed, but $0.53/kWh makes it tough.
Yea California rates are wild. The new power rate rules are gonna make that weird too, but there's still value in something like installing solar and being able to provide your own power sometimes.
Where I live, there's MULTIPLE shopping areas that offer DC fast charging and it's free for 30 minutes per session
Nice! That seems like a great option to supplement some charging in-town. What's the charging speed?
It's not just the savings on gas. There are oil and other fluid changes to do on ICE cars and while you are in for those things you run the risk of being sold a bunch of other things your car may or may not need. It's hard to put a number to all that unless you have kept track of the total cost to maintain your gas car in the past. After two years and 25k miles our Tesla model 3 has had zero maintenance. I replaced the cabin air filter just because I have allergies. Everyone said the tires would wear out but they are fine. My Cadillac ATS wore out those same model of tires after only 20k. Maybe that's because the Tesla psi is 42 vs on the ATS it was 36.
Definitely! I focused just on the electricity vs. gas costs for this video. After some more time goes by, I plan to give a more comprehensive ownership cost comparison for the Mach-E vs. my prior gasoline vehicles.
Good video! Wish I did my research before buying an EV in MA. At 3.10 per gallon in MA, it’s cheaper to burn gasoline vs paying .35c per kWh.
$0.35 cents/kWh for all charging is a hard sell. Do you have any alternatives or lower night time pricing?
You don’t need to go full NEMA 14-50. If you have an electric dryer, tap into that line. Still faster than level 1 charging. Didn’t even need to upgrade my panel.
Yeah, that's a great suggestion. Another viewer suggested this as well. Even going from 110V/12amps to 220V/16-24amps would be a big speed improvement.
I’ve seen level 3 run anywhere from 23 cents to $1.50 per kWh (at a ripoff dealership). Occasionally a free one too.
$0.23 is a pretty good deal if the speed is good. $1.50 is crazy! I haven't seen it that high, yet.
National average for home electricity is $0.24/kWh (energy + grid/utility + taxes ). You should include all when you calculate home charging expenses. Somehow everybody doing these calculations miss that.
That $0.06/kWh at work is a steal.
Great point about the additional fees on home charging! If I add in all the fees, I'm between $0.11-0.12 cents/kWh (base rate without fees is between $0.08-0.09). However, I consider many of those fees a sunk cost since I have to pay these anyway to have electricity at my home (EV or not). So the additional cost to charge the EV is a little bit less, and that's where I came up with the $0.10 cents/kWh number for my home charging.
You could share your dryer circuit and have a switch so you could only use either the dryer or switch to the car charger outlet. I have a 100 amp panel and charge using the 30amp circuit I share with my dryer. Cheers
Thanks for the suggestion!
Yes, you pay more to register an EV in your state but you are not paying for oil changes… So far, I enjoy the Tesla model Y so much. It’s fast and when I take long road trips in it, I pay $99 for the month( used to be $199/month) for the full self driving. It drives me to and from my destination. Great camping car. Even if it gets to cost the same at some point to charge, you are still saving on repair costs due to much less moving parts.
Glad you're enjoying your Tesla. Do you camp in it often?
@@studzstudios Thank you! Yes, went on long road trip to Florida from Maine and back ( for one month). Stayed at campgrounds where I can also charge the car while sleeping in it in camp mode. Also stayed at Luvs, Flying Js and Cracker Barrel’s. One night at a Walmart parking lot with my sister who was in her van from Colorado and two other ladies in the SUVs and camper. Going again next month. The Dog Mode and Camp Mode are a game changer for me and the Full Self Driving drove me back home at night in a snow storm. It got so bad that even that feature could not work due to poor visibility for the cameras and then I found a rest stop to wait till daylight. I used to have throaty performance cars but don’t miss the sound because of all the pluses. Car came with the 110 adapter and the J1172. I purchased 30 amp and 50 amp EV ( not RV) adapters and CCS adapters and 10 gauge extension cord to charge almost anywhere. So much fun for camping⛺️👍
1:24 DC Fast Charging is the proper name. Level 3 is not. Hate to be a stickler and ultimately it doesn't really matter what you call it, but just FYI.
I usually say DC Fast Charging, but organized by L1/L2/L3 in the video. The industry seems to use both interchangeably. For example: www.caranddriver.com/research/a41803552/ev-charging-levels/
originally Level 3 was supposed to be 3 phase AC charging but that never caught on in the US
Plus, how much you paid for the car. Electric cars are more expensive than gas cars overall. I don’t know if it makes that much of a difference but it does make a difference probably. But you got it all figured out mostly.
Yeah, new electric vehicles are still more expensive up-front, but the long term savings (like gas savings) should be better in the long run like you mentioned. I'll see for sure in the long run!
I only payed $32,100 for my 2023 Tesla Model 3 RWD. Adding in a trade in of a 2012 Forester with 108k miles on it, the final price was $24,875 (included state and federal incentives, sales tax, registration, etc). That seemed like a good deal to me. The utility gives me $25/month for charging off peak. That works out to 400 “free” miles/month or 4,800 miles/yr or 48,000 miles over 10 years.
Since electric and gasoline rates vary so much, I usually try to keep it simple. Just say Long distance travel using commercial electricity costs about the same as gasoline. Stop-and-go driving costs half as much, and using your own electricity costs half as much. So for most of my driving, my Ford F150 EV is four times cheaper than my old V8 Chevy Silverado, even though it has way more torque and power. Also, the EV requires no oil changes, and the brakes will never wear out. 😊
Way less than half for home. 2.6cents vs 54 cents, in oklahoma
@@tsmatthx2 Wow! Here in Illinois, it's like 15 cents at home vs 35 to 50 cents at a public charger.
@@paulrybarczyk5013 during 11pm-6am, 2.6cents.....all other hours is about 7cents
2.6 cents is awesome! That'd definitely make having some home level 2 charging worth it so you can quickly recharge in that 7 hour window.
I like the simplicity! Nice to a general rule of thumb.
$0.6/kWh for PGE in Cali. That is ToU-C tier2 rate. Also please show charging list. L2 lost is 15%. L1 lost is 21%.
$0.6/kWh, meaning 60 cents? That's spendy. How did you come up with the percentage loss?
@@studzstudios I compare what is the battery’s capacity to what it takes from wall plug. Yes 58-60 cents with PGE in California. Delivery charge + generation charge tier2 off peak ToU-C rate
You forgot insurance cost
Insurance cost is hard to compare since it varies based on so many factors. My insurance costs are comparable to my prior gas vehicle (gas Mustang). That vehicle was worth less, but was also higher accident risk.
Can anyone tell me how to delete the "FORD MOTOR COMPANY" program from my car memory. This automatically send my charging bill to Ford. I do not have an option when I plug in to charge my Mach -E.
I believe you are referring to "Plug and Charge" which is Ford's way to automatically handle all of the charging billing for you without having to activate the charger manually with your phone or on the charger itself. This simplifies paying for charging since you don't have to have separate accounts set-up with multiple other companies (Electrify America, Tesla, EVGo, ChargePoint, etc.). With your car having your billing information, you can just plug in and let it handle it if the station supports plug and charge. The disadvantage is plug and charge doesn't support the discounted charging memberships that Electrify America and Tesla offer, so you may not want to use it if you have a membership with lower priced charging.
If you don't want to use plug and charge, just activate the charger before plugging it into your car with your phone or with a credit card at the charger. (Not all chargers support payment with a card though.)
You can also log into your account on Ford's website and go to: My Account --> Connected Services --> BlueOval Charge Network --> Manage --> And then edit your billing info or if you don't want it, click "Cancel Service".
@@studzstudios That does not delete the program from your car. Just the ford's billing account.
Pointless video. If you are doing only 7000 miles per year then the gas price is irrelevant. The price is so low that you can ignore it and chose what's more suitable for for myself gas or battery car
I primarily wanted to show the cost breakdown and how much the costs can vary depending on the situation. I agree that my savings so far wouldn't be the primary deciding factor of going EV, but it's a nice benefit and will continue to add up over time.
Probably better to start with solar power just to drive down your electric bill first and see what happens before buying either a pure play plug in or plug in hybrid. The other issue at hand remains the insane electronics on modern vehicles in particular cameras and safety systems but not exclusive to that. Trying to "harden" that against corrosion and what not has been a monumental challenge to the extant Industry causing imo vehicle values to start to really go off a cliff as despite enormous expense said electric systems detract not add value at least for the time being. Tesla does appear to be changing that as does Ford as will presumably GM as will presumably Rivian currently the "Big 4" in all electrics upon in North America. As far as residual values pure play ICE Platform machines hold up far better although how the PHEV market holds up could definitely be a gamechanger as a pure play ICE works at ideal when idling whereas pure play BEV works ideally when run 24/7/365 or as a Daily Driver. Not sure I would recommend a pure play BEV unless one has a side gig as an Uber, Lyft or Turo operator or are doing speciality work such as with construction or lawn care or delivery work. Still is remarkable to see both adoption rates and improvements in build quality in pure play BEV that continue by leaps and bounds with #irony Tesla one of the least good on that front and hence possibly why depreciation of Teslas have been so spectacular of late. The outright cost of solar and solar installation is starting to plunge though as well would could be what drives demand for the next leg of growth for pure play BEVs big time which if true is great news for both Tesla (all in) and Ford (least committed.) GM and Rivian might have some serious issues here as pure play ICE capabilities and reliability are starting to improve tremendously and PHEVs are starting to surge in popularity and sales growth as well. By way of specific example if Subaru comes out with a PHEV this Fall Model Year 2025 that could have a huge impact on the US automotive market despite having sales on or about equal to Tesla (for now) as there is such Brand Loyalty to Subaru similar to Toyota. Also Tesla Cybertruck might change the entire US economy period if sales of that massive pure play BEV starts to ramp up as this truck can be used to do all the installation work for solar installs plus vehicle support etc. Both Rivian and Ford make pure play BEV Vans as well and for some time now which again can be used in house for Fleet Sustainment and for commercial work.😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Expanding on your point about electronics in vehicles, I think some of the issue with desirability is how quickly things become outdated/obsolete even if it was cutting edge a few years ago.
Insurançe??
Insurance cost is hard to compare since it varies based on so many factors. My insurance costs are comparable to my prior gas vehicle (gas Mustang). That vehicle was worth less, but was also a higher accident risk.
Can fill my petrol tank from 10% to 100% and be going again in 5 minutes.
Yeah, looking forward to faster charging for the road trip case. For in-town charging at home it's more convenient than gas. On road trips the time adds up. If you can find good charging stops and use the time take care of other things (eat, restroom, clean the windshield, let your kids run around, etc.) it helps minimize the time actually added to the trip.
Good video. However, I don’t quite agree with your assumption that an equivalent ICE vehicle with the same performance can be high 20mpg. They are more likely low 20s, even below that in stop and go traffic with little highway miles. Based on the general price of gas in CA, I probably save $4.5K on 15K miles based on my wife’s SUV (which took premium at 16.8 mpg (shudder)). But I had planned to go electric years ago and installed a 8.5kW solar system at home last year. With the current spikes in electricity in CA, my breakeven is about 4 years or less right now.
Fair point! I was trying to be as optimistic as possible on an equivalent gas car since I was expecting some comments about how gas cars get way better mileage than 20mpg. :)
My Tesla charging at a Tesla charger takes 20 to 30 minutes maximum
Yeah, the Mach-E's charging times aren't the fastest. (115kW peak for my standard range NCM battery, 150kW peak for the extended range NCM or newer standard range LFP battery). Obviously charging time is going to vary for everyone depending on the vehicle, charger, battery size, state of charge, temperature, etc.
It's all debatable until you average in the cost of tires and battery replacement. At that point the argument falls apart and that is why EVs will never truly be mainstream.
My hope is the replacement costs in ~15 years from now (when the majority of EVs from this era need a replacement) will be much lower than they are today, but only time will tell
@studzstudios I think that's one area where tesla might have an advantage, just due to the large number of Teslas out there vs Mach e.
Interesting take. What does it cost to replace a transmission, that will likely fail long before the motors or high voltage battery in an EV? Oil changes? Spark plugs? Stop spreading disinformation. EVs are much less expensive to run, period.
@@djbigmax1687 01:41 Lol, sorry, no. Many batteries are already being replaced at a huge cost. In many instances the vehicles are simply scrapped. On what planet does a battery outlast a transmission?
@@djbigmax1687 Tires ... at least good ones, are not cheap either.
Can you also compare insurance costs, current depreciation and vehicle lifespan?
Tricky comparisons. Most EVs are high-performance vehicles, and those tend to cost more to insure. Gasoline vehicles keep getting more expensive while electric vehicles keep getting cheaper. While that continues, EV depreciation will be worse. EV lifespan should be better, since they are mechanically very simple.
I'll do it for you. I'm Massachusetts insurance are same but you can ask your broker. Every car depreciates. Most people have a car for 8-10 years. By that point every car will be around $10k. EV are shown to outlast the ownership. Batteries are going well over 250k miles with only 10-15 percent degradation. They are not like your lead acid battery. Next Gen LFP batteries will go a million miles easy. Buy an EV if you have cheap rates of less than 20 cents per KWH. If not run your car until it dies, by then the new LFP will be amazing. End 24, 2025 LFP will take off. In the mean time, I'm loving my model y.
@@TheLobo91 There is a lot of broad prospective statements in this. "EV are shown to outlast the ownership" - Tesla released the Model S in 2014, so they are no where near enough data points on long term
@@paulward4175 average person has a car for 8.5 years. The original owner has most likely sold that vehicle and it's in the used market. So my point was don't worry about the vehicle battery dieing like a lot of people say. That vehicle will most likely out last the original owner. Also tesla has an 8 year warranty on battery so don't worry about that either. My prediction is once they come out with LFP Tesla along with others will warranty their batteries for 500k-1million miles. It's cheaper to replace the pack on warranty then lose market share and stock price like they are doing now. Also we have plenty of data showing battery degradation which sits around 10-15 percent.
Insurance costs vary significantly depending on where you live, driving history, age, coverage you cary, etc. I think that'd be hard to give a number that is helpful. As for depreciation and vehicle lifespan, I think I'll cover these topics after more time goes by. Every vehicle takes a big depreciation hit in the first year and the Mach-E is no exception. What will be interesting is what happens to the value over the next few years, especially if newer redesigns of the Mach-E come out.
3:43 my home rate is 34 cents. Ugh...
Wow, that is high. It's only 11 cents in north Texas.
Ouch. Is it any lower during the night?
Why are you using that 0.86 cents for gas again? When was the last time was that low? The 1970's? The 80's? Even the $2.00 is fairly unrealistic.
As per electrical losses, you using a level 1 charger cause way more loses than a level 2. Is that what you use at work at least? A 240v level 2 connection?
As per the efficiency, that 2kw per mile is more for heavier EV trucks. In fact, the Rivian R1T gets about 2.8 per mile when not towing on average. The Mach-E can't be that inefficient.
My electric costs/efficiency are the equivalent of filing up with gas for roughly $0.86 cents/gallon. And yes, work is a level 2 240V/30amp charger. The Mach-E's efficiency is definitely much better in warmer weather, in the 3-4 mi/kWh range. Like I mentioned in the video, I don't totally trust the display's calculation.
More disinformation. I own 2 EV’s. The cost to fill up at home is NOT the cost listed per kWh (I.e. $.10 cents - $.15 cents per kWh) the electric company always adds other fees as well (state and local taxes, fuel and energy costs, energy transmission costs, low income family spread-the-costs, etc). you’re looking at closer to $.20 - $.30 cents per kWh. Nobody ever tells the truth on true home charging costs.
My electric rate INCLUDES taxes, etc is 14 cents average per charge. I installed a 50 amp receptacle myself, my panel is in the utility room. So same garage inner wall. Went thru panel box thru into the receptacle. Use my provided charge cable from Ford for my Lightning. It’s was about 45 dollars for small piece of wire, breaker, Receptacle, box, etc. So in summary it varies from each installation. You can’t say misinformation since everyone’s situation is different! I am telling the truth about my experience!
Yeah this also varies wildly to location. My electric rate is 10 cents per kWh, I have a 2023 Tesla Model 3 with a 58kWh pack and charged it basically 0 to 100 3 times at home in the first full month and it added $18 to my bill. That's $6 per charge which is almost exact to my per kWh rate.
Our fees in Ohio is 200 for plug in hybrid and 200 for full ev . I have both on top of the 67 fee per car.
The price to compare is 11 cents per kWh
Great point about the additional fees on home electric rates! Where I am it's actually not too bad. If I add in all the fees, I'm between $0.11-0.12 cents/kWh (base rate without fees is between $0.08-0.09). However, I consider many of those fees a sunk cost since I have to pay these anyway to have electricity at my home (EV or not). So the additional cost to charge the EV is a little bit less, and that's where I came up with the $0.10 cents/kWh number for my home charging.