When I was growing up in the 80’s there was a lady who lived up the hill from us who had an ‘82 Seville. She was an elegant woman with a big “Dynasty-style” hairdo. I always thought she was a big to-do, and that car was absolutely gorgeous. Years later, I met her in person at a church I attended at that time, and she was the sweetest most humble person I’d met up to that time. Yes, *very* elegant and well-heeled, but humble. She told me her late husband bought it for her before he passed away, and she absolutely loved that car. Posh family for sure!
I don’t think Wayne Kady was a good designer. He should largely be blamed as one of the main contributors for Cadillac's decline from the mid-70s onwards. His antiquated design aesthetic hindered Cadillac's evolution, contrasting sharply with Mercedes' forward-thinking and well executed designs of the 80s. I’m not a Mercedes Fanboy, but this divergence between the two luxury brands underscored Mercedes' grasp of luxury trends and customer desires, leaving Cadillac trailing behind.
I absolutely HATE the bustleback Seville, but a bustleback Eldorado might've been kinda cool! I'm thinking of like a black mid-90s ESC with sorta the same treatment as that silver model from the video with like dark tinted windows, satin black wheels, and loud pipes? Might've been kinda awesome. Those long doors and vertical taillights change the whole feel, sinister-looking. I like it!
The bustleback Eldorado with the vertical taillights is really beautiful. To me, the bustleback concept works much better on a two-door rather than a four-door vehicle. Always great to see Wayne Kady!
I was a teen when these cars hit the showroom. I remember thinking to myself, “Did GM poach the designer of the Gremlin away from AMC”? (This thought was also influenced by the 79 Cutlass). The styling has grown on me since that time.
I recall talking with Stan Parker about this new bustleback 1980 Seville design back in the day. He had already retired from GM by then. He was explaining all the trouble that occurred with adapting the rear quarter panels & back pillars to the body & what a headache they were for the body men trying to work in his 1967 Eldorado exterior design to the assembly line. He apparently had little interest in what engine or drive-trains were in these vehicles because as we were chatting he actually asked me whether it was front wheel drive or rear wheel drive. In his garage in West Bloomfield, Michigan, was a a little 2 seat British Sports car, & he and his wife drove an Eldorado at this time in the late 70s, just before they were first downsized for the 79 model year. He was not fond at all of these Bustle-back Sevilles & I distinctly recall the word he used to describe these updated designs over his 1976-79 Seville design. He called them "Yuckbacks."
I was doing a high school senior year project. The teacher I was working with broke her ankle after a student tripped her. My 17 year old self "had " to drive her to the hospital in her brand new '80 Seville. What a trill it was for me to drive that car.
Given design lead times, is it more likely that this was a late 70s design trend and Cadillac got its version out first, rather than Ford and Chrysler copied this design? The Imperial debuted in '81 and the Continental in '82 so I presume their designs were pretty far along when the Seville debuted.
I worked at a Cadillac dealership in the early '80's. Your assessment of the lackluster powertrains is spot on. First generation Sevilles are a favorite of mine. At first I didn't appreciate the second generation due to my experiences with the mechanicals but I grew to appreciate the styling. Rather luxurious interior with a nearly worthless trunk. Another favorite of mine is the '79 Eldorado. Elegant looking like the first generation Seville. Not sure about the bustleback proposal for the Eldorado. It does have a striking resemblance to another one of my favorite designs of the time....the Imperial.
Have to admit it! Chrysler's take of the bustleback look is very pleasing. Sorry that it wasn't available with four doors, as I believe that hurt it sales. As time wore on, its electronic control of the engine tarnished its reputation. Still a very striking design.
The 1970s are my least favorite automotive time period. Performance was a dirty word in America, few engineering leaps were made or technologies introduced, styling became overblown and gaudy, quality control took an extended vacation, and “luxury” behemoths ruled the roads. That being said, I do find these talks very informative and interesting, and it gives me a better perspective and understanding of the “how and why” behind the cars of this period, and it makes me think more and more about cars that before I wouldn’t have given a second glance to. No, I never liked the bustle back Cadillacs; however, I can at least understand the thought process behind why they existed.
I owned a 1981 Imperial in Nightwatch blue, and it was by far my favorite car, as soon as I saw the Eldorado concept, I immediately thought how close it was to the Imperial. Maybe a little corporate espionage going on?
7:07-7:10 (to me) has a strong Buick look along the sides with the 'dip down' behind the door. There are elements of the '71-'73 boat tail Riviera here too. It's actually quite attractive.
The Eldo they ended up with was such a winner, hard to say it should've been. I've always been kinda tepid on the Seville's bustle. I loved the idea of it, but somehow...it just didn't quite "get it". Surprisingly, the vertical tali lights REALLY help it.
Some customizers had that idea with the first gen Seville. I've seen a couple of examples of the rear doors lopped off and the whole car shortened. They look like a ridiculous caricature, BUT the same thing could be done with the second gen Seville PLUS elongate the front doors and leave alone the rest of the body/roof. Since the second gen Seville was almost the same as an Eldorado anyway it seems like it would be relatively easy to do. I would love the back end of a Seville on an Eldorado!
Whether the Seville or the Eldorado was produced as the bustle-back, it was probably the best choice for only one of those to wear that style of sheet metal. I base that on the similarity of the various GM bodies in that era of increasingly 'badge engineered' models. In any case, thanks for sharing these design studies, delightful content as always. 😁
Really like that front clip on the Eldo clay model - especially the way that grill kicks out at its bottom. Ultimately though, I am just not much of a bustleback fan. One might even say that bustlebacks were a design fad which never widely caught on...
I get your point, but GM did do some good work after this. The 90's "tube" Riviera was pretty cool. The Corvettes up to current day have all been pretty decent designs. The Solstice and even the Saturn Sky were pretty decent designs. They were still trying to push the envelope a bit (even though corporate bean counters fought them every step of the way). My Father in law had a 2001 Seville. One of the nicest (& quietest cars) I've ever ridden in.
@@j.kevvideoproductions.6463 Actually the Olds Aurora was the "Tube" car.. I never heard of the Riv referred to as such. We had an '03 Seville STS, with the Northstar bought new.. kept it 4 years.. it was fine..
They should have made this 2 door version. It looks so much more homogeneous than the 4 door version where the bustleback looks kinda awkward and like an afterthought on a normal car
I daily a bustleback Seville with a Buick V6 and I have to say, that was probably the best engine you could get in one, unless you disabled the 6/4 part of the V/8/6/4
My dad had one of those, silver and maroon. I would look at it in the driveway and think about the design and decided that I liked it. It seemed proportional and for the time it was a more youthful design.
I love that Adam has befriended old-school G.M. designers. He is documenting history here. One thing that occurs to me when I hear Wayne talk is that I think of him as an artist. He has "Persistence of memory" which is also a title of a painting by Salvador Dali. As an artist myself, I find myself going back to ideas I had 40 years ago over and over again... trying to get them right, trying to articulate my vision. I think that's what Wayne was always doing, trying to perfect and implement his vision as much as was possible.
My father was a GM dealer so I saw a lot of very nice cars growing up, but I remember the first time I saw the Cadillac "Bustleback." I was a pre-teen stepping off the city bus out front of the mall and as I stepped off, directly in front of me was one of these Cadillacs. It was a two-tone silver and black I believe, but I saw the back end and thought, "WOW, the future is here!" Haha... truth is I'd rather drive a "maxed out" caprice classic from that era.
Hello Adam soon the nice weather will be here 👍It be nice for you to bring out some of your beautiful cars and do your famous walk around on showing them off 👍Those are enjoyed!!!!
I've had many 80s Cadillac Coupe DeVille (few sedans also). Never had an Eldorado or Seville. Always wanted Biarritz, either a hard stainless metal top or convertible.
Thank you for doing this particular video. As you know, I love the 84-85 Seville and the 79-85 Biarritz. I would have loved to have seen the two door version, (made just like it was pictured, in the scale model). They could have called it a Seville, as well but in a two door version. Much like the S Class two and four door version of today. The vertical taillights look especially stellar and if you look closely, the 81-87 Grand Prix used the hood, front clip, doors and even the polyurethane wrap around bumper extensions, as well. Also, notice the side marker lamps were used in the 86 -up Seville. Anyway, great video and thanks for sharing!
We had a bustle-back Seville, the trunk was nearly useless - the spare lived up against the back of the back seat so the only real room was around the sides of the spare. No room for any decent size suitcases. Not guite as bad as the '78 we had, which was wide and deep front-to back, but was very shallow.
These are elegant looking cars and it is a shame about the poor engines, the one my dad bought had trouble with 8-6-4 stuff and when they couldn't fix it he sold it and bought a LSC that was a very nice car with it's 302ci that got pretty good gas mileage.
I’ve owned two bustleback Sevilles. I could never decide if I liked them, or should put a bag over my head so nobody recognized me. I wish the bustleback theme had been used on the Eldorado instead. There is simply not enough room for the design to resolve convincingly with rear doors. The production Seville looks good from some angles, but squat and silly from others. I believe a two door could have avoided this downfall of the four door Seville.
I love your videos. And I absolutely love that black button tuck swivel chair and ottoman you have in the background! We had the same chair and ottoman back in the 60s but it was in avocado gold. Keep up the great work. You have style my friend.
A great story about this design style, Adam, and how it came to be. And it's always great to hear from one of the designers. And of the three "bustle back" cars of the day, I'd take the Continental -- the Seville and the Imperial look to me to have conflicting design themes -- bustleback cars should have more upright proportions, rather than the typical "longer, lower, wider" American theme. When you combine both, it just doesn't look quite right to me. And I think both bustieback Cadillac designs suffer from the same problem, though well done for what they were.
I always thought the bustleback would have looked better on a coupe. Cool to know that was always Wayne's intention! I also thought the Series 75 would look great as a bustleback, with its thicker C pillars. One thing I never liked was the stainless spear added after '80. It drew the eye too far down at the rear: it would have looked much better following the angle of the rear window.
The lines on the two-door kinda look better in the back than the final version. However, the front and the four doors work better on the production Seville. Also, the deep dish wheels would have really improved the look overall. Edit: The lines on the prototype are so clean, they should probably have worked harder to achieve that in production.
I distinctly remember seeing it for the first time when I was a kid in the late 70s/early 80s walking to school, thinking how ugly it was. It's not as offensive to me looking at it now, but the sheer look cars are more pleasing.
I was living at a halfway house and one of the guys had his grandmother's brand new 1980 Seville. He took us for a ride on some dirt roads with big mud puddle and beat the living snots out of it! He had no respect for the machine or his grandmother but that was a ride I'll never forget!
I've come to appreciate the bustleback Seville as automotive sculpture (having had the Hot Wheels as a kid helps), but it was a *HUGE* marketing blunder that actively repelled the import intenders that the first Seville had been developed for while appealing to nobody who wouldn't have bought a Fleetwood anyway if Cadillac had taken the Seville in a more contemporary international direction like some other prototypes show was being considered. The bustleback kicked off Cadillac's Lost Decade from which they never fully recovered.
I'm not sure the bustleback design works with the coupe but I love the look on the sedan. The sedan is a classic in my opinion. It's just too bad the engines were so bad.
A friend of mine had the first version of the Seville, it was a very nice car. Always thought they were beautiful. Funny how they were based on the Nova. I had a Nova-based Pontiac Phoenix at the time. Another friend of mine, a bit later, had the bustleback Seville. When new, I was never drawn to them. Now, of course, it is interesting to see them. The current Ghost and Phantom Rolls sedans have brought back a mild bustleback treatment as well. It gets emphasized in some two tone paint treatments.
The Imperial design was based on the Chrysler Cordoba and its Dodge counterpart, the Mirada. The design was on the drawing board in 1977, and it didn’t have the Imperial in mind, nor was it a copy of the second generation Cadillac Seville. Lee Iacocca felt that it was necessary for Chrysler to have a flagship model in order to show the buying public that Chrysler was still in business, alive and well. As a result, the Imperial was rushed into production without its new fuel injection technology having been fully tested and vetted for its real-world everyday functionality and reliability. Which was unfortunate; the overall look of the vehicle, both the exterior and the interior, was really very nice. Really, when one looks back on what went on in the 1970s and 1980s with the American automotive industry, it's no wonder that the Japanese vehicle manufacturers were able to establish a strong foothold in the USA that only grew stronger in a relatively short period of time, and was never relinquished.
Thank you for showing the Continental. IMHO is significantly better than Seville, even sharing the FOX platform. Being able to sit down with the great designers is a pretty decent hobby. Keep it up.
I don’t know. The car proposed doesn’t look bad at all. I can pretty much visualize it in my mind. I think the rear styling is interesting, but I’m glad that 78 Monte Carlo 80 Phoenix etc styled urethane bumper with that absolutely inferior quality Mylar insert didn’t make it to the final car no matter how many door handles are on the car. It’s also interesting to note that Wayne liked that diving belt line that would appear to align with the top of the rear wheel opening. You showed us this also with his 77 Riviera proposal. It’s interesting that the design teams liked this but managers apparently did not.
The Eldorado of this generation was so iconic when I was a teenager. It would be hard to imagine any change to it. I did, however, love the bustleback Seville, both then and now.
Having seen the El Dorado version for the first time in this video, I have to say I kind of like it better than the Seville. The model El Dorado in the picture had nice features like the shorter grille and turn signals integrated into the bumper making the front end sleeker. It would be neat to see it as a modern concept car. Great video as always. Thank you!
I am partial to the 4 door. I like it better now than I did when it was new. It has aged well with me. But I agree that what really killed the car in sales was the piss poor power plants. Cadillac was just wrong headed to think that you could put anything less than the best under the hoods of these cars. I'd be curious to hear from some of the old GM people you interview how it happened that Cadillac in these years blew it all by putting such bad engines and transmissions in these cars. What were they thinking? Lincoln really topped Cadillac in those years, and a good bit of it was from Ford's mechanicals, chassis and drive trains, just being so superior. And Ford only refined the 5.0 off the shelf and the new overdrive transmission, which cost them next to nothing to do. In that way the Continental of that era was the better car.
I am glad that the '79 Eldorado arrived exactly as it did. The Eldorado and the Toronado did look a lot alike, but the Eldorado, especially in Biarritz form, was perfect for the time. I was in high school in the mid '80's and drove a "84 Seville that belonged to the owner. I remember it being very slow, not nimble at all, and not fun to drive. It was yellow, to top it off. On the other hand, I loved the '84 Continental. My mom had a silver one and it seemed like a much better car than the Seville. It had vertical taillamps and I do remember thinking that Lincoln copied Cadillac with the design.
My family went back and forth almost purchasing a 1st gen Seville (we all loved it). Once GM released the 2nd gen, there was never any talk of getting one. The new design was viewed as "ruining" the Seville. I agree, and with almost 50 years of hindsight, I still feel the same.
The 79 Eldorado was a cool car, many people talked about it and wanted one. That hump back was a mixed bag for sure... They made the right choice with Eldo.
Great look at the history of the bustle back, though it still doesn’t make me like it. The dropping beltline curve always seemed completely at odds with the very rectangular form of the front of the car. In contrast, the Hooper-designed Rolls-Royces that originated the style had curves front and rear, so the shapes made sense. Frankly I’m glad this fad passed quickly. One other key difference between the Eldorado proposal and the production car: the wheel arches. The Seville was unique in Cadillacs of the era in having round wheel arches, when the rest all had rectangular openings. The styling model had round arches, which would have been new to the Eldorado.
Mention of the Imperial which was only a few months behind the Seville makes me wonder how IDEAS are spread. Namely, how did Ma Mopar find out about the Seville with enough time to do something similar?
I never cared for the bustleback style, but there wasn't another luxury sedan in its class that could come close to ride and handling. At the time, it was the quietest cabin I ever experienced, including Mercedes, Lincoln, and other Caddies I had personally owned. It was a nice, solid, luxury car....with an odd butt.😅
The Imperial's inspiration was the 2dr Chrysler LaScala proposal, complete with bustleback roof. The picture in the link dates to January 1977. Plus, Iacocca revealed proposed Imperial pics to Congress when he was pleading for loan guarantees. Chrysler's bustleback plans came several years before the 1980 Seville.
I dated two women, one an airline executive and the other a DR and both had the bustle back Seville and it fit them to a T. Beautiful. Elegant and Sporty and class personified!
I remember not everyone liking the design when it first came out, me included. It took a couple of years, especially when Chrysler and Lincoln copied it, the GM version did do it best IMO, Chrysler came close because theirs was a full sized coupe. The Eldorado looked good the way it was.
The vertical vs. horizontal taillight discussion brings to mind a potential future video topic (apologies if already done & I missed it): how exterior lighting was impacted by changing federal regulations, and how did domestic automakers address/balance regs with benefits/usage of lighting, along with styling of cars.
Speculation why Cadillac management rejected the 2 door Eldorado regardless if it was a bustleback was how do you make a convertible out of that? The Eldo in the past had a convertible offering. The Seville seemed to be a step down size from the full size Fleetwood d'Elegance interior wise with the 4 doors.
To me, the bustleback comes off better as a two door than a four door. The two door at (4:20) looks great but I think final design of the '79 Eldorado was the right call - very attractive "tailored" look. I liked the look of the deep dish wheels on the two door model (3:23) and they looked like they'd be easy to wash. I had the spoked hubcaps on my '85 Riviera that were popular at time and they were a pain to keep clean if you didn't have a good long bristled brush.
It’s astonishing how this clay looks so much like the 1981 Chrysler Imperial.
The Imperial was influenced by the Seville!
Imperial was imo, the Pinnacle. Especially in it's big body form and it's own brand.
71-73 Buick Rivera boat tail are really special tho.
I agree, I own one and love it@@R.J.1
True. Good point
When I was growing up in the 80’s there was a lady who lived up the hill from us who had an ‘82 Seville. She was an elegant woman with a big “Dynasty-style” hairdo. I always thought she was a big to-do, and that car was absolutely gorgeous. Years later, I met her in person at a church I attended at that time, and she was the sweetest most humble person I’d met up to that time. Yes, *very* elegant and well-heeled, but humble. She told me her late husband bought it for her before he passed away, and she absolutely loved that car. Posh family for sure!
I love the vertical taillights!
Loved the original Seville. The bustle back? Not so much, but seeing Wayne's original drawing I can appreciate where he was trying to take this.
I loved the original Seville also, but I have equal affection for the bustleback. All a matter of taste, I guess.
I don’t think Wayne Kady was a good designer. He should largely be blamed as one of the main contributors for Cadillac's decline from the mid-70s onwards. His antiquated design aesthetic hindered Cadillac's evolution, contrasting sharply with Mercedes' forward-thinking and well executed designs of the 80s. I’m not a Mercedes Fanboy, but this divergence between the two luxury brands underscored Mercedes' grasp of luxury trends and customer desires, leaving Cadillac trailing behind.
In my opinion GM accomplished this look in their early 90s Seville, Eldorado, just slightly more rounded with a different grille.
I absolutely HATE the bustleback Seville, but a bustleback Eldorado might've been kinda cool! I'm thinking of like a black mid-90s ESC with sorta the same treatment as that silver model from the video with like dark tinted windows, satin black wheels, and loud pipes? Might've been kinda awesome. Those long doors and vertical taillights change the whole feel, sinister-looking. I like it!
The two door design looks 100 percent better than the 4 door. They could have made both. Sometimes managers have zero vision.
It does look great! The wheels & tires look sick.
The bustleback Eldorado with the vertical taillights is really beautiful. To me, the bustleback concept works much better on a two-door rather than a four-door vehicle. Always great to see Wayne Kady!
I was a teen when these cars hit the showroom.
I remember thinking to myself, “Did GM poach the designer of the Gremlin away from AMC”? (This thought was also influenced by the 79 Cutlass).
The styling has grown on me since that time.
It was about saving money from Carter's disaster economy.
I recall talking with Stan Parker about this new bustleback 1980 Seville design back in the day. He had already retired from GM by then. He was explaining all the trouble that occurred with adapting the rear quarter panels & back pillars to the body & what a headache they were for the body men trying to work in his 1967 Eldorado exterior design to the assembly line. He apparently had little interest in what engine or drive-trains were in these vehicles because as we were chatting he actually asked me whether it was front wheel drive or rear wheel drive. In his garage in West Bloomfield, Michigan, was a a little 2 seat British Sports car, & he and his wife drove an Eldorado at this time in the late 70s, just before they were first downsized for the 79 model year. He was not fond at all of these Bustle-back Sevilles & I distinctly recall the word he used to describe these updated designs over his 1976-79 Seville design. He called them "Yuckbacks."
I think this look worked better on the Eldo than the Seville.
I think the bustleback definitely looks better with vertical taillamps, and on the two door.
I was doing a high school senior year project. The teacher I was working with broke her ankle after a student tripped her. My 17 year old self "had " to drive her to the hospital in her brand new '80 Seville. What a trill it was for me to drive that car.
The 2 door bustleback proposal looks much nicer and well proportioned than the 4 door.
Always enjoy the interviews with Wayne Kady and to hear the stories behind the designs.
I think the two door bustleback is sharp!
That 2door red w white top impala - that’s a good looking car !
Chevrolet hit a home run in 77 with the Impala and Caprice.
@@kenttalsma7906 Especially the two door coupes with the bent rear window glass.
The styling of these bustle back Cadillacs hearken back to the razor edge styling of some of the Hooper bodied Rolls-Royces of earlier decades.
However, most British automotive journalists who saw this design thought it resembled a somewhat less prestigious automobile -- the Austin Sheerline.
external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.vVG8QcI95D0cwk4jL5htIQHaFA%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=9a564bef413406baa8b3589773d20d077ff6a1118fe34dec40d291bc945cab90&ipo=images
@@jazzfan6oh dear.
Given design lead times, is it more likely that this was a late 70s design trend and Cadillac got its version out first, rather than Ford and Chrysler copied this design? The Imperial debuted in '81 and the Continental in '82 so I presume their designs were pretty far along when the Seville debuted.
The 77-79 Caprice 2 doors have just about the best styled wheel openings ever.
I worked at a Cadillac dealership in the early '80's. Your assessment of the lackluster powertrains is spot on. First generation Sevilles are a favorite of mine. At first I didn't appreciate the second generation due to my experiences with the mechanicals but I grew to appreciate the styling. Rather luxurious interior with a nearly worthless trunk. Another favorite of mine is the '79 Eldorado. Elegant looking like the first generation Seville. Not sure about the bustleback proposal for the Eldorado. It does have a striking resemblance to another one of my favorite designs of the time....the Imperial.
Have to admit it! Chrysler's take of the bustleback look is very pleasing. Sorry that it wasn't available with four doors, as I believe that hurt it sales. As time wore on, its electronic control of the engine tarnished its reputation. Still a very striking design.
I assumed it was an Imperial in the thumbnail
I like the El Dorado proposal best. The front third is almost identical to the 1981 Grand Prix I had as my first car in the late 90’s.
I'm a fan of the bustleback, so this would've been right up my alley.
Couldn't even get 3 bodies in those things
@@KB-ke3fi you mean into that trunk?
The 1970s are my least favorite automotive time period. Performance was a dirty word in America, few engineering leaps were made or technologies introduced, styling became overblown and gaudy, quality control took an extended vacation, and “luxury” behemoths ruled the roads. That being said, I do find these talks very informative and interesting, and it gives me a better perspective and understanding of the “how and why” behind the cars of this period, and it makes me think more and more about cars that before I wouldn’t have given a second glance to. No, I never liked the bustle back Cadillacs; however, I can at least understand the thought process behind why they existed.
I owned a 1981 Imperial in Nightwatch blue, and it was by far my favorite car, as soon as I saw the Eldorado concept, I immediately thought how close it was to the Imperial. Maybe a little corporate espionage going on?
This reminds me of a one-off I remember seeing of a 1995 or so Eldorado with the slanting Seville C-pillar instead of the normal vertical one.
7:07-7:10 (to me) has a strong Buick look along the sides with the 'dip down' behind the door. There are elements of the '71-'73 boat tail Riviera here too. It's actually quite attractive.
The Eldo they ended up with was such a winner, hard to say it should've been. I've always been kinda tepid on the Seville's bustle. I loved the idea of it, but somehow...it just didn't quite "get it". Surprisingly, the vertical tali lights REALLY help it.
Your interviews with Wayne are incredible. Thank you!
Some customizers had that idea with the first gen Seville. I've seen a couple of examples of the rear doors lopped off and the whole car shortened. They look like a ridiculous caricature, BUT the same thing could be done with the second gen Seville PLUS elongate the front doors and leave alone the rest of the body/roof. Since the second gen Seville was almost the same as an Eldorado anyway it seems like it would be relatively easy to do. I would love the back end of a Seville on an Eldorado!
Until I noticed the front clip, I was sure I was looking at an Imperial.
Whether the Seville or the Eldorado was produced as the bustle-back, it was probably the best choice for only one of those to wear that style of sheet metal. I base that on the similarity of the various GM bodies in that era of increasingly 'badge engineered' models. In any case, thanks for sharing these design studies, delightful content as always. 😁
had a rental bussleback for my wedding in 83 ... it survived 2 days of utter hell with dignity and respect (minimal abuse) .Loved that car
i can only imagine a good mtr in 1 (368)
@@BiGDeE3not in 83. You could only get the HT4100 or the diesel 350.
@@pdennis93 as i said ... i can only "imagine" a good motor in 1 .. am i missing your point ?
@@BiGDeE3 I guess I misunderstood your reply.
I like the early Sevilles but that pic of the yellow 85 Eldorado Biarritz might be my favorite.
Had Cadillac gone with the bustleback Eldorado, the Seville wouldn't have looked so odd.
The front of that styling model looks A Lot like the 1981 Pontiac Grand Prix.
That & the 90 Eldorado too.
to me the grille is straight off a 77 buick regal
Love the 1979 Eldorado. Much prefer its final form to the bustle back. Primarily because the bustle back front and rear seem not connected.
Really like that front clip on the Eldo clay model - especially the way that grill kicks out at its bottom.
Ultimately though, I am just not much of a bustleback fan. One might even say that bustlebacks were a design fad which never widely caught on...
The two door bustleback Eldorado was a gorgeous design.
The Eldorado of this vintage turned out to be very nice. It was elegant and one of the last GM vehicle to show actual styling.
I get your point, but GM did do some good work after this. The 90's "tube" Riviera was pretty cool. The Corvettes up to current day have all been pretty decent designs. The Solstice and even the Saturn Sky were pretty decent designs. They were still trying to push the envelope a bit (even though corporate bean counters fought them every step of the way). My Father in law had a 2001 Seville. One of the nicest (& quietest cars) I've ever ridden in.
@@j.kevvideoproductions.6463 Actually the Olds Aurora was the "Tube" car.. I never heard of the Riv referred to as such. We had an '03 Seville STS, with the Northstar bought new.. kept it 4 years.. it was fine..
that coupe would have been gorgeous!
They should have made this 2 door version. It looks so much more homogeneous than the 4 door version where the bustleback looks kinda awkward and like an afterthought on a normal car
I daily a bustleback Seville with a Buick V6 and I have to say, that was probably the best engine you could get in one, unless you disabled the 6/4 part of the V/8/6/4
My dad had one of those, silver and maroon. I would look at it in the driveway and think about the design and decided that I liked it. It seemed proportional and for the time it was a more youthful design.
LOVE this channel.
Amazing content.
I love that Adam has befriended old-school G.M. designers. He is documenting history here. One thing that occurs to me when I hear Wayne talk is that I think of him as an artist. He has "Persistence of memory" which is also a title of a painting by Salvador Dali. As an artist myself, I find myself going back to ideas I had 40 years ago over and over again... trying to get them right, trying to articulate my vision. I think that's what Wayne was always doing, trying to perfect and implement his vision as much as was possible.
My father was a GM dealer so I saw a lot of very nice cars growing up, but I remember the first time I saw the Cadillac "Bustleback." I was a pre-teen stepping off the city bus out front of the mall and as I stepped off, directly in front of me was one of these Cadillacs. It was a two-tone silver and black I believe, but I saw the back end and thought, "WOW, the future is here!" Haha... truth is I'd rather drive a "maxed out" caprice classic from that era.
I think a 2dr woulda been awesome. But I too can’t help but see a Chrysler Imperial. 😎
Hello Adam soon the nice weather will be here 👍It be nice for you to bring out some of your beautiful cars and do your famous walk around on showing them off 👍Those are enjoyed!!!!
I've had many 80s Cadillac Coupe DeVille (few sedans also). Never had an Eldorado or Seville. Always wanted Biarritz, either a hard stainless metal top or convertible.
Thank you for doing this particular video. As you know, I love the 84-85 Seville and the 79-85 Biarritz. I would have loved to have seen the two door version, (made just like it was pictured, in the scale model). They could have called it a Seville, as well but in a two door version. Much like the S Class two and four door version of today. The vertical taillights look especially stellar and if you look closely, the 81-87 Grand Prix used the hood, front clip, doors and even the polyurethane wrap around bumper extensions, as well. Also, notice the side marker lamps were used in the 86 -up Seville. Anyway, great video and thanks for sharing!
We had a bustle-back Seville, the trunk was nearly useless - the spare lived up against the back of the back seat so the only real room was around the sides of the spare. No room for any decent size suitcases. Not guite as bad as the '78 we had, which was wide and deep front-to back, but was very shallow.
I had a 1984 Cadillac Seville Elegante, my goodness I loved this car.
Lincoln's later take on the bustle-back design proved to be better-proportioned and thus more attractive.
These are elegant looking cars and it is a shame about the poor engines, the one my dad bought had trouble with 8-6-4 stuff and when they couldn't fix it he sold it and bought a LSC that was a very nice car with it's 302ci that got pretty good gas mileage.
I’ve owned two bustleback Sevilles. I could never decide if I liked them, or should put a bag over my head so nobody recognized me.
I wish the bustleback theme had been used on the Eldorado instead. There is simply not enough room for the design to resolve convincingly with rear doors. The production Seville looks good from some angles, but squat and silly from others.
I believe a two door could have avoided this downfall of the four door Seville.
79 Eldo with the stainless roof is a tough design to beat.
I love your videos. And I absolutely love that black button tuck swivel chair and ottoman you have in the background! We had the same chair and ottoman back in the 60s but it was in avocado gold. Keep up the great work. You have style my friend.
That whole shift into the bustleback was an indication of mass confusion at Cadillac Corp. design studios. Hot mess .
A great story about this design style, Adam, and how it came to be. And it's always great to hear from one of the designers. And of the three "bustle back" cars of the day, I'd take the Continental -- the Seville and the Imperial look to me to have conflicting design themes -- bustleback cars should have more upright proportions, rather than the typical "longer, lower, wider" American theme. When you combine both, it just doesn't look quite right to me. And I think both bustieback Cadillac designs suffer from the same problem, though well done for what they were.
I always thought the bustleback would have looked better on a coupe. Cool to know that was always Wayne's intention!
I also thought the Series 75 would look great as a bustleback, with its thicker C pillars.
One thing I never liked was the stainless spear added after '80. It drew the eye too far down at the rear: it would have looked much better following the angle of the rear window.
It’s amazing how this clay looks so much like the 1982 Lincoln Continental.
At 0:40, nice touch showcasing the car with a dumpster background. :)
Another wonderful video Adam! I wasn’t a fan of the 1980 Seville, but loved the 1980 Eldorado.
Always loved the 4 door Bustleback, which was a take off on late 40,'s early 50's Rolls-Royce, Daimler Hooper Coachworks.
The lines on the two-door kinda look better in the back than the final version. However, the front and the four doors work better on the production Seville. Also, the deep dish wheels would have really improved the look overall.
Edit: The lines on the prototype are so clean, they should probably have worked harder to achieve that in production.
The two door looked awesome I think. It looked better proportioned than the Seville.
I distinctly remember seeing it for the first time when I was a kid in the late 70s/early 80s walking to school, thinking how ugly it was. It's not as offensive to me looking at it now, but the sheer look cars are more pleasing.
I was living at a halfway house and one of the guys had his grandmother's brand new 1980 Seville. He took us for a ride on some dirt roads with big mud puddle and beat the living snots out of it! He had no respect for the machine or his grandmother but that was a ride I'll never forget!
I've come to appreciate the bustleback Seville as automotive sculpture (having had the Hot Wheels as a kid helps), but it was a *HUGE* marketing blunder that actively repelled the import intenders that the first Seville had been developed for while appealing to nobody who wouldn't have bought a Fleetwood anyway if Cadillac had taken the Seville in a more contemporary international direction like some other prototypes show was being considered.
The bustleback kicked off Cadillac's Lost Decade from which they never fully recovered.
I think the two door would have been awesome, I owned two of these, an 80 and 85. I just love the look.
I’ve always thought the 1980-85 Seville would have looked much better with an Eldorado style rear end but perhaps with horizontal taillights.
Awesome video! Need more like this, but I love all of your GM videos!
I'm not sure the bustleback design works with the coupe but I love the look on the sedan. The sedan is a classic in my opinion. It's just too bad the engines were so bad.
I never liked that bustle back trunk on the 80-85 Seville but it's handsome on the Eldorado mock up.
A friend of mine had the first version of the Seville, it was a very nice car. Always thought they were beautiful. Funny how they were based on the Nova. I had a Nova-based Pontiac Phoenix at the time. Another friend of mine, a bit later, had the bustleback Seville. When new, I was never drawn to them. Now, of course, it is interesting to see them. The current Ghost and Phantom Rolls sedans have brought back a mild bustleback treatment as well. It gets emphasized in some two tone paint treatments.
The Imperial design was based on the Chrysler Cordoba and its Dodge counterpart, the Mirada. The design was on the drawing board in 1977, and it didn’t have the Imperial in mind, nor was it a copy of the second generation Cadillac Seville. Lee Iacocca felt that it was necessary for Chrysler to have a flagship model in order to show the buying public that Chrysler was still in business, alive and well. As a result, the Imperial was rushed into production without its new fuel injection technology having been fully tested and vetted for its real-world everyday functionality and reliability. Which was unfortunate; the overall look of the vehicle, both the exterior and the interior, was really very nice. Really, when one looks back on what went on in the 1970s and 1980s with the American automotive industry, it's no wonder that the Japanese vehicle manufacturers were able to establish a strong foothold in the USA that only grew stronger in a relatively short period of time, and was never relinquished.
Thank you for showing the Continental. IMHO is significantly better than Seville, even sharing the FOX platform. Being able to sit down with the great designers is a pretty decent hobby. Keep it up.
I definitely feel the Eldorado ( busselback) would have been a very popular seller.
I don’t know. The car proposed doesn’t look bad at all. I can pretty much visualize it in my mind. I think the rear styling is interesting, but I’m glad that 78 Monte Carlo 80 Phoenix etc styled urethane bumper with that absolutely inferior quality Mylar insert didn’t make it to the final car no matter how many door handles are on the car. It’s also interesting to note that Wayne liked that diving belt line that would appear to align with the top of the rear wheel opening. You showed us this also with his 77 Riviera proposal. It’s interesting that the design teams liked this but managers apparently did not.
The second gen has reached the "so bad it's good" stage. I'd rock it.
I would have liked the two-door El Dorado proposal. It would have complimented the Seville in the showroom
I like the 76 - 79 Seville the best, the bustle back dodnt do a thing for me . Mever mind the fact that they seemed to be Diesel's killed it for me😮
The Eldorado of this generation was so iconic when I was a teenager. It would be hard to imagine any change to it. I did, however, love the bustleback Seville, both then and now.
Having seen the El Dorado version for the first time in this video, I have to say I kind of like it better than the Seville. The model El Dorado in the picture had nice features like the shorter grille and turn signals integrated into the bumper making the front end sleeker. It would be neat to see it as a modern concept car. Great video as always. Thank you!
I am partial to the 4 door. I like it better now than I did when it was new. It has aged well with me. But I agree that what really killed the car in sales was the piss poor power plants. Cadillac was just wrong headed to think that you could put anything less than the best under the hoods of these cars. I'd be curious to hear from some of the old GM people you interview how it happened that Cadillac in these years blew it all by putting such bad engines and transmissions in these cars. What were they thinking? Lincoln really topped Cadillac in those years, and a good bit of it was from Ford's mechanicals, chassis and drive trains, just being so superior. And Ford only refined the 5.0 off the shelf and the new overdrive transmission, which cost them next to nothing to do. In that way the Continental of that era was the better car.
2 Door Eldo would have been the better choice.
But, they neede to keep the vertical Tail lights as well!!
I am glad that the '79 Eldorado arrived exactly as it did. The Eldorado and the Toronado did look a lot alike, but the Eldorado, especially in Biarritz form, was perfect for the time. I was in high school in the mid '80's and drove a "84 Seville that belonged to the owner. I remember it being very slow, not nimble at all, and not fun to drive. It was yellow, to top it off.
On the other hand, I loved the '84 Continental. My mom had a silver one and it seemed like a much better car than the Seville. It had vertical taillamps and I do remember thinking that Lincoln copied Cadillac with the design.
My family went back and forth almost purchasing a 1st gen Seville (we all loved it). Once GM released the 2nd gen, there was never any talk of getting one. The new design was viewed as "ruining" the Seville. I agree, and with almost 50 years of hindsight, I still feel the same.
Great content Adam and you have very good taste when you cretic the styling!!
The 79 Eldorado was a cool car, many people talked about it and wanted one. That hump back was a mixed bag for sure...
They made the right choice with Eldo.
Great look at the history of the bustle back, though it still doesn’t make me like it. The dropping beltline curve always seemed completely at odds with the very rectangular form of the front of the car. In contrast, the Hooper-designed Rolls-Royces that originated the style had curves front and rear, so the shapes made sense. Frankly I’m glad this fad passed quickly.
One other key difference between the Eldorado proposal and the production car: the wheel arches. The Seville was unique in Cadillacs of the era in having round wheel arches, when the rest all had rectangular openings. The styling model had round arches, which would have been new to the Eldorado.
Mention of the Imperial which was only a few months behind the Seville makes me wonder how IDEAS are spread. Namely, how did Ma Mopar find out about the Seville with enough time to do something similar?
Corporate espionage?
Don't be alarmed if you find a bustle-back in your garage.
Does anyone else see the similarities between the proposed El Dorado and the production Chrysler Imperial revival in the early 80s?
I never cared for the bustleback style, but there wasn't another luxury sedan in its class that could come close to ride and handling. At the time, it was the quietest cabin I ever experienced, including Mercedes, Lincoln, and other Caddies I had personally owned. It was a nice, solid, luxury car....with an odd butt.😅
The Imperial's inspiration was the 2dr Chrysler LaScala proposal, complete with bustleback roof. The picture in the link dates to January 1977. Plus, Iacocca revealed proposed Imperial pics to Congress when he was pleading for loan guarantees. Chrysler's bustleback plans came several years before the 1980 Seville.
I dated two women, one an airline executive and the other a DR and both had the bustle back Seville and it fit them to a T. Beautiful. Elegant and Sporty and class personified!
I had a 1981 8-6-4 that ran flawlessly. I sold it in 1988 with 90k miles and it was in perfect condition.
I remember not everyone liking the design when it first came out, me included. It took a couple of years, especially when Chrysler and Lincoln copied it, the GM version did do it best IMO, Chrysler came close because theirs was a full sized coupe. The Eldorado looked good the way it was.
The vertical vs. horizontal taillight discussion brings to mind a potential future video topic (apologies if already done & I missed it): how exterior lighting was impacted by changing federal regulations, and how did domestic automakers address/balance regs with benefits/usage of lighting, along with styling of cars.
Yeah, the biggest difference on the continental it was a front engine rear driver. Of course we already all knew that.
Speculation why Cadillac management rejected the 2 door Eldorado regardless if it was a bustleback was how do you make a convertible out of that? The Eldo in the past had a convertible offering. The Seville seemed to be a step down size from the full size Fleetwood d'Elegance interior wise with the 4 doors.
A bustle-back eldorado convertible would definitely look like a VW THING.
To me, the bustleback comes off better as a two door than a four door. The two door at (4:20) looks great but I think final design of the '79 Eldorado was the right call - very attractive "tailored" look. I liked the look of the deep dish wheels on the two door model (3:23) and they looked like they'd be easy to wash. I had the spoked hubcaps on my '85 Riviera that were popular at time and they were a pain to keep clean if you didn't have a good long bristled brush.