PURGATORIO CANTO 23 Summary and Analysis
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2024
- Analysis of Canto XXIII of Dante’s Purgatorio. 6th Terrace: the Gluttonous. Dante meets Forese Donati.
TENZONE BETWEEN FORESE AND DANTE (first 4 sonnets)
SONNET 1: Dante Alighieri to Forese Donati.
He taunts Forese, by the nickname of Bicci .
O Bicci, pretty son of who knows whom
Unless thy mother Lady Tessa tell,-
Thy gullet is already cramm'd too well,
Yet others' food thou needs must now consume.
Lo! he that wears a purse makes ample room
When thou goest by in any public place,
Saying, “This fellow with the branded face
Is thief apparent from his mother's womb.”
And I know one who's fain to keep his bed
Lest thou shouldst filch it, at whose birth he stood
Like Joseph when the world its Christmas saw.
Of Bicci and his brothers it is said
That with the heat of misbegotten blood
Among their wives they are nice brothers-in-
law.
SONNET 2: Forese Donati to Dante Alighieri.
He taunts Dante ironically for not avenging Geri
Alighieri.
Right well I know thou'rt Alighieri's son;
Nay, that revenge alone might warrant it,
Which thou didst take, so clever and complete,
For thy great-uncle who awhile agone
Paid scores in full. Why, if thou hadst hewn one
In bits for it, 'twere early still for peace!
But then thy head's so heap'd with things like these
That they would weigh two sumpter-horses down.
Thou hast taught us a fair fashion, sooth to say,-
That whoso lays a stick well to thy back,
Thy comrade and thy brother he shall be.
As for their names who've shown thee this good play,
I'll tell them thee, so thou wilt tell me back
All of thy fears, that I may stand by thee.
SONNET 3 : Dante Alighieri to Forese Donati.
He taunts him concerning his Wife.
To hear the unlucky wife of Bicci cough,
(Bicci,-Forese as he's call'd, you know,-)
You'd fancy she had winter'd, sure enough,
Where icebergs rear themselves in constant snow:
And Lord! if in mid-August it is so,
How in the frozen months must she come off?
To wear her socks abed avails not,-no,
Nor quilting from Cortona, warm and tough.
Her cough, her cold, and all her other ills,
Do not afflict her through the rheum of age,
But through some want within her nest, poor
spouse!
This grief, with other griefs, her mother feels,
Who says, “Without much trouble, I'll engage,
She might have married in Count Guido's
house!”
SONNET 4: Forese Donati to Dante Alighieri.
He taunts him concerning the unavenged Spirit of Geri Alighieri.
The other night I had a dreadful cough
Because I'd got no bed-clothes over me;
And so, when the day broke, I hurried off
To seek some gain whatever it might be.
And such luck as I had I tell you of.
For lo! no jewels hidden in a tree
I find, nor buried gold, nor suchlike stuff,
But Alighieri among the graves I see,
Bound by some spell, I know not at whose 'hest,-
At Solomon's, or what sage's who shall say?
Therefore I cross'd myself towards the east;
And he cried out: “For Dante's love I pray
Thou loose me!” But I knew not in the least
How this were done, so turn'd and went my way.
English translation of Purgatorio used for this video:
Allen Mandelbaum, Purgatorio, Second Book of the Divine Comedy (California Dante) www.amazon.com...
Thank you all for your support, comments and interest in Dante.
Thank you for doing this series. It has been very helpful.
Thank you, Angela, for taking the time to comment! I am now at canto 16 of Paradiso and should complete the 100 videos series by May. Great to interact with so many people who love Dante.
3:22 In my Breviary I start morning and evening prayer with that line. 😀
V: O Lord, open thou our lips,
R: And our mouth shall show forth thy praise.
Same here! My son was born only 4 weeks ago, so my time is what it is and I do not pray it everyday, but I look forward to going back to a certain regularity with my Office of the Hours.
@@tomlabooks3263 Congratulations! May he grow healthy and have a happy life. 🙂
@@Paul9443 Thank you so much 🙏🏻
You made me laugh with the comment about birdwatching. I have my binoculars with me on holiday in Wales, but I don't have the patience be a really successful twitcher.
Another lovely canto. Dante seems very human as he meets his friend.
Sounds like a lovely time to be in Wales!
I recently did a blog post that included the back-and-forth tenzone Dante and Forese exchanged. They really seem like the Medieval equivalent of a rap battle, and are very fun to read.
Rereading the Commedia in full at age 41 and doing a lot of outside study, after first reading it at 24 and doing zero real study, has made a world of difference in how I view many things about it. Being not many years into adulthood the first time around, I truly didn't understand how nuanced and sympathetic Dante is to many groups of people looked down on by society in his era, women included. In the alternative history I'm writing, I'm going to give him four daughters and only one son, and show him being realistically progressive for the era by giving his girls as thorough and high-quality of an education as possible with tutors and letting them marry men of their own choosing when they're over eighteen.
Wow. I would really love to read that alternate history book you’re writing. Please do let me know once it’s completed and available, sounds very interesting. The rap battle analogy made me smile, it’s so true!
I recently read an article on women in the Divine Comedy. Even though there are only two common characters that are portrayed by women, he gave both a significant amount of roles and representation. He often gives Beatrice complete control of the poem. I can never seem to find these articles again after reading them, but it was a good one haha.
Two common characters? As in “personalities”? Sorry I’m being slow.
@@tomlabooks3263 That was a terrible way for me two word it haha
I mean, the two women that are frequently in the poem, Beatrice and Francesca.
@@attention5638 I see!
Thank you for such an illuminating talk! I'm wondering if Romanesque Stornelli came from the Tenzone tradition of tossing insults back and forth between friends.
More than likely there was a strong influence - what a great connection there, I hadn’t thought about it!
Great discussion. I definitely want to avoid this ledge of Purgatory.
I very much do, too! But I know I’ll be right there, ribs showing and hands reaching out ….. Too much dark chocolate !!
It’s so very difficult trying to imagine what kind of culture informs works from so long ago, but you’ve done an admirable job of it here. It seems that literature contemporary with the time probably is the best source, but of course that is also dependent on individual quirks of character in each writer. I know we have a bit to go before you’re done with the Divine Comedy, but I would love someone (like you perhaps) to go through the Decameron as thoroughly as you’re leading us through Dante. This canto was an interesting contemplation on Time in Purgatory. The urging of my elders to “offer up” our own earthly sufferings or sadnesses to speed the way for the souls in purgatory was their way of keeping us from complaining, but it worked (for a while, anyway). Poor Stazio, but lucky Forese.
Thank you - I’m intrigued by your idea … Interestingly, the Decameron has exactly 100 short stories, so that would be another 100 videos project! I’ll give it a thought.
@@tomlabooks3263 I'm also planning a Decameron series for the future! It's one of my all-time favoritest books, and almost all of my own books have at least one mention of it or a line inspired by or taken from it.
@@Ursulas_Odds_and_Sods That’s wonderful. Let’s discuss! To be honest before I get to “the love that moves the sun and the other stars” it will be at least April / May 2022.
A very pleasant and informative listen!
Thanks so much, really glad you enjoyed it.
Ha ha. "Wastes his lifetime by hunting birds" ...I'm reading The American Senator by Trollope and he says much the same when observing the habits of the landed gentry in England ...and I'm surrounded by grouse moors where I live so ...the OMO reference made me think of a washing powder that was once sold in England ...so I'm just as distracted as Dante on my journey ..focus, Hester, focus !!! ...thanks for your reflections on the misogyny of Dante , not sure it makes it any easier for me to read though even as I understand the historical context ..... the sanctification of a handful of women feels like a pious prison for them and the essentialism of saint and whore is such a misogynistic cliche it's hard to see the subtleties ... it's depressing to be reminded that equality under the law is still not universal globally....
“Daring to drive” by Manal Al-Sharif is an interesting book about the condition of women in Saudi Arabia, where some medieval elements seem to persist almost unaltered.
What’s NOT depressing is that if you look at history in many countries (especially in the West, but not only) you can see the gradual growth of a collective consciousness that, despite all the problems, is seeing and understanding things better than before, maturing in a way that could be compared to the slow maturation of an individual. Slow, sure, but undeniable if one looks carefully.