Madara left to save the fate of the uchiha. He trusted Hashirama with all his heart, and knew he meant genuine intentions behind his words. But Hashirama cannot make peace just by putting his hand out to him, its not that easy. The Uchiha perhaps havent forgiven Tobirama for the death of a prominent uchiha member, so in return would look for ways to retaliate amongst the Senju, which would later drag the Sarutobi and other clans into instability. There was simply nothing Madara could do besides leave...
It wasnt that Uchiha felt anger for Tobirama for killing Izuna. The reason is that Tobirama made them the police force, which he believed to be their strognest suit. However, law enforcement is always not popular, and it also (not sure if intentional) put them away from political power in the village. People simply didnt liked Uchiha for them being the police. This all started growing in them the anger at the village, because they were disliked and out of political control. Thats what started the thoguhts for coup. So it was rather Tobirama's decisions on Uchiha's role in the village then him killing Izuna Uchiha.
15:00 Hashirama- Madaraaaaaaa Madara- Hashiramaaaaaa Sasuke- Narutooooooooo Orochimaru- sasuke would you be quiet the 1st hokage is trying to tell his story Sasuke- sorry 😞
Tobirama is a diplomat. Feelings and pleasantries come last for him. Tobirama will always put the village first no matter what steps are required. Madara knows that. Madara also knew that if Tobirama became the 2nd Hokage, the Uchiha's oppression would begin. Which it inadvertently did. But Madara himself is a very complex character in my opinion. Or at least the way Kishimoto wrote him is very interesting
But the main factor leading to Madara leaving the village to walk a new path is mostly "destiny". Which will become a more central theme as shippuden progresses.
So Suzy still doesn't understand the power of the first Hokage, no one can control him when he has almost his full power. Remember Madara and Itachi was able to break this jutsu which was created by his younger brother who Hashirama is more powerful than all three people I just named. That is why he is called the God of Shinobi!!
I can definitely imagine madara being the first hokage. Peace. It is infact because the hokage power was not given to the uchiha the whole thing started. I think tobirama is to be blamed just as Orochimaru said. Madara did not leave because he felt that he was not given the credit that he deserved, but because he saw the destruction of uchiha if nothing was done. And guess what he was right and now only one uchiha is alive.
If by a lack of power you rebel and are ready to destroy everything you've put your work and others' into, than you just proved Tobirama right. An Uchiha being Hokage seems to be, at least for Madara a power trip and a deal breaker of someone who couldn't bring himself to trust a past enemy. Tobirama in that was no better than Madara. The only one the story straight up shows as being able to go beyond the cicle of hatred and war at that time was Hashirama.
Do you really believe that If Madara was the first hokage there would be peace? The dude can't see anything from a different perspective than his, the only opinion that matters is his, he would've started conflict against anyone who thought different from his way of peace, which is to subdue everybody tô his will, the proof of that is the war. Tobirama is not a saint, and I don't agree with everything that he's done, but not letting Madara be the hokage was only right
So you're telling me if both parties wanted to establish a role of cooperation they're not equal and one is dictating over the other? are you saying that all conglomerate businesses are just forced alliances?
I don’t know if you heard of the term “self fulfilling prophecy” (it’s used in education in the US). Treat a person a certain way, like they’re a bad person, and eventually they’ll expect that of themselves and act out that way. So you saying “guess he’s just acting like an Uchiha” and “it’s in his genes” is actually part of the problem (imagine the villagers constantly saying that about you if you were an Uchiha). Not putting you on blast by the way, just providing you a different perspective haha. Having a discourse.
the uchiha was discriminated against and forced out of the village. madaras speech was talking about peace and his dream world and making everyone’s life’s their dream life. he wanted true peace in the end
I don’t think you remember but when the hokage were resurrected a few episodes ago, orichimaro said the first homage was so strong he could break free from his control at any time, the same way madara broke free from kabutos control
Suzy, madara would have been an amazing hokage. He never forgave tobirama for killing his brother but he moved on and focused on the villagers and keeping them safe. Also, the reason he left the village was because he felt his own clan would be in danger if tobirama was to become the next hokage when hashirama wouldn't be around to stop him.
Madara would’ve been a feared hokage. The Leaf and Stone village had a peace treaty but Madara went behind Hashirama’s back and tried to force the Stone to obey the Leaf.
Madara is a kind guy. His own clan wanted to remove him from the leader position. Madara is a guy who values his clan more than anything. Their betrayal made him clear their is no one left for him to protect. He couldnt protect his father death his mothers illness his brothers death. The village he created called him warmonger. He wanted a world where even if its a dream he will jave everyone
I feel like if Madara would have been named Hokage then he wouldn't have went down the dark path he eventually went down. It's a shame, so many things could have been so different if that's how things have gone down.
It was nice seeing Hashirama and Madara being friends again, shame we couldn't see your reaction to Hashirama calling Madara's naming of the village 'no simplistic' and Madara comically berating him for getting depressed easily as well as making fun of him for his sad face
If madara would have been hokage he'll definitely would have just make every other village bow down to leaf not like hashirama who distributed tailed beast like giftcards 😂😂
Tobirama probably didnt actually spread any rumours. I am sure Tobirama definitely played politically and reaped from the public opinion...Tobirama is definitely a sly person but not "malicious". Tobirama's decision to get Hashirama seated as Hokage was right, Hashirama was being too sentimental in naming Madara as hokage, and tobirama probably had no choice but to rely on public pole, to convince hashirama of what the people wanted.
I agree, Hashirama was being too sentimental. I mean, it's not fair to simply give the leadership to another without having in consideration others' opinion. Not to mention that Tobirama had a point on that Hashirama was the reason why the village came to be. I mean, the idea to create the Leaf came from him and he was the one to convince Madara to stop the war between their clans.
madara would’ve been a good hokage as well. madaras whole intention was to bring true peace. tobirama was in fact “racist” towards the uchiha and spread his rumours to the people
Madara was right. Uchihas were second class citizen next to the Senjus and it became obvious once Tobirama became hokage and put them on the outskirts of the village. Hashirama is not innocent there, he always ended up agreeing with his brother. Despite his kind words and good intentions, he accepted the systemic racism against the Uchihas for the peace of the village as a whole. But really, "cooperation was merely a quieter form of conflict." Having said that, Tobirama was also right. The Uchihas were dangerously powerful and unpredictable. The village was never really be truly at peace with them, and it's an Uchiha, Itachi, who would get that and one day protect the village by doing the worst most horrible thing possible. Tobirama never hated the Uchihas, he was wary and prioritized peace in the village, knowing the Uchihas were a possible threat to it, but his actions brought hate in both sides (Fugaku trying a coup d'état and Danzo plotting extermination). In the end, it is not being able to share what is inside them that brought them to that. If Madara had not given him a choice, would Hashirama have killed his brother? Would he have truly shown that peace among Senjus and Uchihas mattered to him more than protecting his own clan to the detriment of the other? And if he did, would he have been able to truly understand Madara? I don't know... There is a lot of conflict in this world, because people fight for the people they love and what they believe is right. Hashirama and Madara, Tobirama and Izuna, Nagato and Jiraiya, Fugaku and Itachi, even Danzo, they all wanted the very same thing: to bring true peace to protect the people they love. So, do you think it is possible to truly share our feelings and understand one another? If so, how can you live your life to make it so?
10:22 Madara: "cooperation is just a quieter form of conflict" This right here just proves that Madara is really not on the same path as Hashirama, it wasn't Tobirama that drove him to this path, face it since his last brother died he was always confused about what he wanted. That stone tablet sealed the deal of what he wanted. While there are truths to what Madara is saying, because we had villages attacking one another and minor/major internal conflict. He really never bothered to put much effort to Hashirama's dream. Maybe if he stayed a little longer he could've been the 2nd Hokage. But i guess being the 2nd Hokage is no longer the issue. Because at that moment he wanted Infinite Tsukoyomi for the whole world not just for Konoha
The first time I saw this episode and Hashirama Senju was at sage mode and Madara Uchia protected Kurama with susanoo armor I was like well it's definitely a battle between two Gods😀.
If anything Tobirama was too honest for his own good. Also, Tobirama was a perfect balance for Hashirama's nation building. Hashirama was the idealistic one whereas Tobirama was realistic about the future. He has every right not to trust Madara. Also, don't mistake Tobirama with Danzo. Tobirama doesn't need to spread lies. He goes for facts. He wasn't opposed to Madara being elected for the position, he just thought that it wasn't a good idea to use old tradition of selecting leaders just because you are friends with them, especially knowing the past history of the Uchiha. The Uchiha's Izanagi battle you saw when Itachi was telling Sasuke their backstory is a pure example that Uchihas, with an exception of a few, are not trusted to lead themselves, let alone other clans or the village.
Tobiramas explanation of sharingan has a slight additional twist not in the anime. The sharingan makes it harder to reason with someone in other words they become more ideologically entrenched. This matches very well with Obito, Sasuke, Itachi, Madara, and even Indra.
In this instance, Madara was completely right. This was on Tobirama. Madara was completely onboard with being a pillar of the community. He stood down, put his anger towards the death of his brother aside, helped build the leaf to what it was, and they went behind his back to circumvent any uchiha in a leadership position in the village. Tobirama played the politician and made it so the senju the leading force behind the Hidden Leaf. It wasn't his genes. He had every right to be pissed at Hashirama.
Tobirama received a lot of criticism for the way he treated the Uchiha Clan. He created the Leaf Police in order to keep them preoccupied and stop them from rebelling against the Hidden Leaf. However, the Uchiha hatred only continued to grow over time. It finally led to the Uchiha launching a rebellion against Hidden Leaf. But, it is unfair to pin the entirety of the blame on Tobirama himself. Tobirama knew about the Uchiha and their "Curse of Hatred." He was aware of the fact that they would eventually rise up against the Hidden Leaf.
While people right away speculate that Tobirama was correct because Madara started behaving as he expected I would like to say no, Madara's behaviour is the derivative of Hashirama's and Tobirama's bad decision making. First of all, he promised that Madara will be the first Hokage(Madara never asked him), should not put the idea in people's head and then ask them to stop dreaming for that reality, it is not a good idea to put trust in people and then ask for validation of that trust. Madara had stopped Hashirama from killing himself that was enough. He should not be proving to Hashi and Tobi, again and again, he had lost enough and only done as much as othe clan's during the war. It was a world war Madara was not the only one killing every one and wanting world dominance it was everyone. Do not create expectations and then ask people to not expect.
tobrama : from now on we run thing democraticly also tobirama : sarutobi ,tomorrow u will be the hokage :v tobirama is adopting his father prejudge btw ,thats why he was a douche
it's confusing for him because he's lowkey egomaniac, look at itachi, no narcissism, he just thinks of the greater good, but i think it's more a problem related to the entire clan , they can't see others ( or weaker people) as there equal. Madara is just a prime example of that.
Naw Madara based on the way he is would be a bad hokage, Tobirama treated everyone with the same suspicion but only did more with the Uchiha because it was warranted. Tobirama is my favorite & the best hokage
@@rahulchoubey9930 maybe but his policies were almost based on a preconception that all uchiha are the same, every uchiha can end up like madara. He singled out a single clan(race) . Which by definition is racism. To judge other only on basis of race.
@@DevilWolf000 yeah they did try to take over. But lets think about the reasons. 1. They were kept under surveillance. 2. After the nine tails attack they were forced to move to village outskirts. 3. They were blamed for not helping during the nine tails attack, even though they were ordered by village leaders to stay back and protect the civilians.
Tobirama did one thing better than anyone of his predecessors and his successors, and that is, he turned the Hidden Leaf into a major power. He was smart enough to sell tailed beasts to other villages. His brother, Hashirama, had suggested that the tailed beasts should be given to other villages for free. Tobirama also created Leaf Police, the Chunin Exams, the ANBU and the Academy. Under his guidance, the Hidden Leaf prospered quite a lot
2:13-2:20 Whoever was alive? Practically everybody present. Blaming deities for creating life. Life must have balance (Light/Dark), otherwise imbalance. Hiruzen (Third Hokage): (Depressed that quote was forgotten)
Tobirama wasnt a bad person in sense of being evil. He was simply pragmatist, unlike Hashirama who was idealist. Hashirama succeeded only because he had the power and will to push his dream into reality. But Tobirama took things as they were, not as he wanted them to be. And he had a small bias on Uchihas, but wasnt so he hated them. He simply knew they tended to fall into their emotions if pushed far enough. He didnt spread rumors about Madara and Uchihas so that he didnt become First Hokage. It was simply given, the leader should be the strognest shinobi, and Hashirama defeated Madara. Simple. Thought I admit Tobirama was very harsh, only becuase he wasnt afraid to state the truth. And when you think of it, Hashirama had one dark spot on him. He treated Kyuubi and every other Tailed Beast as simply a malevolent beast, not caring that they may have feelings, and even names themselves, unlike he treated humans. So, there is also that ;)
Plot twist: Tobirama was the main villan of naruto all along. Let madara become a hokage --> obito does not become evil --> people dont become racist against uchiha -->stability in other nations --> no akatsuki formation --> nagato and gang are good --> itachi and sasuke dont become orphans cuz no genocide --> nartuo does not become orphan. Ez
The second hokage wasn't spreading rumors the people in the village just new Uchiha had a trend of being unstable. Hashirama is just hopelessly optimistic while Tobirama was a realist and so they balance eachother out.
Johan Liebert Tobirama is responsible for the village system as it is, he gave the Uchiha power so while keeping them at close watch. That was his response to the Uchiha acting differently, also the Chunin exams is a way of villages coming together while testing the young shinobi. Hashirama was all about peace but what happens when peace is disrupted? War breaks out and shinobi must learn to fight to protect their homes. And how can you blame him for the first great ninja war? He was trying to negotiate peace with the cloud and the gold & silver brothers stopped that from happening. It was Hiruzen who also failed to maintain the second’s policies because he was too soft. I admit the 2nd was perhaps too hard on the Uchiha but he gave them responsibilities as a way of gaining trust. Even as a child he talked about having a proper system that all shinobi could benefit from, he was indeed a true realist. While hashirama making that peace possible wouldn’t have an answer on how to maintain it with that peace he preaches about. You have to be stern as a leader...
Johan Liebert Tobirama is the best hokage it’s all good having ideals of peace but if you can’t maintain it then it’s all ruined. The third hokage lived through 3 ninjas wars, 2 of which he couldn’t avoid or stop, and that’s not really his fault
13:54 btw orochimaru doesn't need to let hashirama stop Madara.. it was mentioned in a previous episode that hasirama could break orochimarus binding whenever he wanted, tobirama would also be able to break the binding... but ofc orochimaru has hasirama dna which prevents tobirama from doing so
he didn't he had uchiha students when he was kage meaning he chosed an uchiha to be student he hated the ones like madara who went on rampage to destroy stuff bc it didn't went on there way
@@rinnemask9933 so, madara and the uchiha clan also lost people at the hands of the senju, so i don’t agree with that point. they were also hashirama’s brothers 🤷🏼♂️ tobirama just really didn’t like them at all. You could tell right from when orochimaru revived them
toborama created the academy chunk exam ninja rank the police the anbu and many more in the leaf and all of his just are forbidden bc of how strong it was tobirama is the best kage in the leaf always put mission first even killed 20 s rank ninja which are all Akatsuki level and 2 kage level complete a mission
For the people who think that sasuke is crazy for wanting to destroy the leaf village well see madara reason first And for the people who say sasuuke is weak his took his brother eye's well madara did the same
What sasuke is weak to take his brothers eyes.he would have gone blind lol if he didnot. If you consider that weaker naruto is even weaker he needs kurama for everything.In baruto sasuke with one arm is equal to naruto lol.
well tobirama thinking was right Sharingan awakened from the effect of emotion you felt in hard time that led them to make a decision which is not right so they were unpredictable
Hashirama could undo the Edo bindings and beat up the other 3 Hokage before they left the room it's just luck that he has the same attitude as Naruto, that is why he is known as the 2nd God of shinobi first being sage of six paths. That is why Orochimaru had to use Hashirama cells to retrain Tobirama had he not had that power boost from Zetsu Hashirama cells Tobirama probably could have resinned (did what Madara did) the edo contract and killed the entire taka Btw Tobirama wasn't spreading roumors Hashirama and the Senju's are just more likeable
>spreading misinformation Ain't nothing incorrect about it. The fact check is in. Tobirama is absolutely correct about the nature of the Sharingan's power source. His appraisal of the potential danger from the Uchiha isn't exactly proven far off the mark, either. It would take Nina Jesus talking up a miracle and the extinction of the bad seeds by the hand of one too pure to correct this course. His reasoning for Hashirama was flawless, as well. The only issue was Madara himself. Madara without being coddled by his best friend would just keep drifting to darkness. The slightest thing would set him off the right course (just as Tobirama claimed would happen). Hashirama pushing for his friend being the first to lead is the sort of measure that would have worked well, mind you. So long as ol' Woody kept an eye on him, it would all work out just dandy. Yes, the only miscalculation is letting Madara live if not letting him play protector. Rumors? Nonsense. Unfair? What is unfair is throwing a tantrum (again). If he had just stopped being a bitch he could have been forced through as the Second Hokage (Tobirama got the position with no able competition around). Yes, as you come to see, the original 'Tobi' had it pretty much figured. Sad, but true. The man was already given the idea for his current plan by this point. He couldn't be talked back down anymore. As you surmised, the loss of his final brother was too much (a push over the edge). Hashirama struggled to keep him from going rogue (and ultimately failed when the slightest disturbance reared up). >Madara never let go of Izuna being slayed It was in mortal combat. He's got some fucking nerve (with all the Senju he killed). As you saw, the life of the top was offered up. It should have ended there. His being (rightly) mistrusted and his people's devil power regarded with suspicion really shouldn't have been that upsetting. Just how it is.
The danzo hate is weird because without him you wouldn't have a show this good and intricate. The show would be less exciting without the things he did
Tobirama wasn't spreading rumors to the Uchiha and there is no confirmation he was talking behind his back and he certainly wasn't making up things. It's really complicated on all sides. All the parties did what they thought was right informed by their personal experiences and unfortunately Madara was the ultimate victim and sacrifice including by his own clan. Furthermore his life isn't something so precious to him that he would give up his convictions because Hashirama spared him. In fact I don't think it would be wrong to assume Madara wouldn't care either way if he died or not and may have preferred to die at some point. After all he had nothing to live for. Remember these are hardened warriors who have grown up with death as a normal occurrence. Death isn't something that frightens them like us. There is no one bad guy. It's the whole system, it's the politics and also the general public. That's what a democracy is. All people get a say and Hashirama was more popular. There's nothing that can be done about that.
If mardara was hokage The Uchiha wouldn't been exiled and watched They wouldn't try take over and shisui would have never lost his eyes and eye, itachi would have nvr killed his clan and sasake would never had kill itachi
Still I believe the Uchiha would just overthrow whoever appose them and would be horrible leaders which would lead to a war within the village itself Every clan vs Uchiha and they would still all perish Uchiha always seemed like they believe people within the leaf looked down on them which was never the case only some village leaders feared and disliked them (Danzo) and Tobirima but unliked Danzo actually had a reason to but because of what the Uchiha believed that everyone would hate and turn on them only lead to hatred and evil giving them power of the Sharigan so in my opinion they would make bad Hokage with the only exceptions being Itachi and Shishui who we saw put the village before their own people which is a quality I believe a hokage should have it don’t matter what clan you are from if you see that your clan is in the wrong then so be it you stop them at all cause to prevent a war within the leaf
its just splitting hairs. Can you really blame tobirama for killing izuna when the uchia also killed hashiramas and tobiramas brothers in cold blood. Madara act as if uchia didnt kill senju. it was good reason for tobirama o be suspect as well as madara trust is not so easily gained in the end madaras dream caused more casualties than actual peace so i side with tobirama and hashirama here.
I understand what madara thought but i also understood what tobirama thought and he was kinda correct too. Tobirama was dedicated to protecting the village .
2:04 “Can we blame Danzo Danzo whatever for ruining everything I don’t give a damn if he wasn’t even born at this point okay we’ll blame his mother or his grandma or whoever was alive at that time we shall blame them for bringing Danzo into the world and ruining everything.” That’s exactly the sort of thinking that spawned the hatred in the first place.
Tobirama is an amazing character and Hokage; he wasn’t spreading lies. Stop hating on him. Where he may be a lot more stern about how to proceed Hashirama is far too kind and could be deceived in that way. Look how that got Lord Third from not being able to take out Orochimaru that one time. Lord 2nd would have done it.
Tobirama even said Hashirama nominating Madara for Hokage was fine, it was just wrong for him to basically solely name Madara Hokage like he wanted. Tobirama didn’t spread any rumors either. Also it wasn’t Tobirama’s own beliefs that led him to thinking of the Uchiha’s in such a way, he’s one of the smartest characters in all of Naruto and figured out the secrets of the Sharingan just from observation and studying. It wasn’t like he just heard the rumors and spread them as is, he already knew a lot from battles over many years against Izuna, mainly and against the clan in general, and was able to get the edge on Izuna and kill him because he so greatly understood the sharingan and created Flying Rajin as a counter.
Tobirama caused so much bs including Madra's fall into darkness and the Uchiha Clan Massacre all because of his treatment of the Uchiha, killing Izuna, and not understanding that the Uchiha/Sharingan's power isn't hate it is love.
Yea, madara says he can't see the dreams of a far future, not only talking about himself but what the second Hokage will end up doing, hence why it was his follow up to "I suspect tobirama will be the second Hokage"
My guess is that main reason for madara turning on hashirama isnt tobirama but rather the stone tablet which he read and had the goal to create the infinite tsukuyomi and abandoned all the previous goals and dreams related to the village
"Can we blame Danzo for everything ? I don't care if he's not born yet, we'll blame his mother." 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Man, I laughed for 15 minutes straight.....
The Himura clan 😂
well he was shown in this episode with Hiruzen at 12:40 xD
Same🤣🤣🤣
Kishimoto is a genius for creating a character like Madara, his development is unlike any other
5:24 madara naming the village always makes me smile and it’s one of my all time favorite moments in the naruto series
Same
Yeah me too! 😄
Madara left to save the fate of the uchiha. He trusted Hashirama with all his heart, and knew he meant genuine intentions behind his words. But Hashirama cannot make peace just by putting his hand out to him, its not that easy. The Uchiha perhaps havent forgiven Tobirama for the death of a prominent uchiha member, so in return would look for ways to retaliate amongst the Senju, which would later drag the Sarutobi and other clans into instability. There was simply nothing Madara could do besides leave...
It wasnt that Uchiha felt anger for Tobirama for killing Izuna. The reason is that Tobirama made them the police force, which he believed to be their strognest suit. However, law enforcement is always not popular, and it also (not sure if intentional) put them away from political power in the village. People simply didnt liked Uchiha for them being the police. This all started growing in them the anger at the village, because they were disliked and out of political control. Thats what started the thoguhts for coup. So it was rather Tobirama's decisions on Uchiha's role in the village then him killing Izuna Uchiha.
15:00
Hashirama- Madaraaaaaaa
Madara- Hashiramaaaaaa
Sasuke- Narutooooooooo
Orochimaru- sasuke would you be quiet the 1st hokage is trying to tell his story
Sasuke- sorry 😞
if you think about it, peace is the primary goal of everyone In naruto,they are just going about it in different ways
I can think of a few people who just kill for other reasons lol
@@alludba1023Orochimaru
First hokage was one of the best hokage he really tried his best, big respect to him
Tobirama is a diplomat. Feelings and pleasantries come last for him. Tobirama will always put the village first no matter what steps are required. Madara knows that. Madara also knew that if Tobirama became the 2nd Hokage, the Uchiha's oppression would begin. Which it inadvertently did. But Madara himself is a very complex character in my opinion. Or at least the way Kishimoto wrote him is very interesting
But the main factor leading to Madara leaving the village to walk a new path is mostly "destiny". Which will become a more central theme as shippuden progresses.
@Johan Liebert lool you could say that but I think he's more honorable than Danzo
Suzy: You can't destroy that, Sasuke...
Pain: Oh...
Didn't get it
So Suzy still doesn't understand the power of the first Hokage, no one can control him when he has almost his full power. Remember Madara and Itachi was able to break this jutsu which was created by his younger brother who Hashirama is more powerful than all three people I just named. That is why he is called the God of Shinobi!!
I can definitely imagine madara being the first hokage. Peace. It is infact because the hokage power was not given to the uchiha the whole thing started. I think tobirama is to be blamed just as Orochimaru said. Madara did not leave because he felt that he was not given the credit that he deserved, but because he saw the destruction of uchiha if nothing was done. And guess what he was right and now only one uchiha is alive.
facts
Tobirama is the GOAT ....Hagoromo started conflict not Tobirama
Cursed clan
If by a lack of power you rebel and are ready to destroy everything you've put your work and others' into, than you just proved Tobirama right. An Uchiha being Hokage seems to be, at least for Madara a power trip and a deal breaker of someone who couldn't bring himself to trust a past enemy. Tobirama in that was no better than Madara.
The only one the story straight up shows as being able to go beyond the cicle of hatred and war at that time was Hashirama.
Do you really believe that If Madara was the first hokage there would be peace? The dude can't see anything from a different perspective than his, the only opinion that matters is his, he would've started conflict against anyone who thought different from his way of peace, which is to subdue everybody tô his will, the proof of that is the war. Tobirama is not a saint, and I don't agree with everything that he's done, but not letting Madara be the hokage was only right
Madara is not wrong cooperation is only one given and the other taken is not equal relationship of power.
So you're telling me if both parties wanted to establish a role of cooperation they're not equal and one is dictating over the other? are you saying that all conglomerate businesses are just forced alliances?
I don’t know if you heard of the term “self fulfilling prophecy” (it’s used in education in the US). Treat a person a certain way, like they’re a bad person, and eventually they’ll expect that of themselves and act out that way. So you saying “guess he’s just acting like an Uchiha” and “it’s in his genes” is actually part of the problem (imagine the villagers constantly saying that about you if you were an Uchiha). Not putting you on blast by the way, just providing you a different perspective haha. Having a discourse.
the uchiha was discriminated against and forced out of the village. madaras speech was talking about peace and his dream world and making everyone’s life’s their dream life. he wanted true peace in the end
I don’t think you remember but when the hokage were resurrected a few episodes ago, orichimaro said the first homage was so strong he could break free from his control at any time, the same way madara broke free from kabutos control
Suzy, madara would have been an amazing hokage. He never forgave tobirama for killing his brother but he moved on and focused on the villagers and keeping them safe. Also, the reason he left the village was because he felt his own clan would be in danger if tobirama was to become the next hokage when hashirama wouldn't be around to stop him.
Madara would’ve been a feared hokage. The Leaf and Stone village had a peace treaty but Madara went behind Hashirama’s back and tried to force the Stone to obey the Leaf.
@@knucklecracks2.0 When that scene happened, Hashirama was already named as the Hokage.
@@Padfoot167 So if it was beforehand Madara would have done things differently?
@Madara Uchiha It’s because Madara was forcing his will on to others that the Leaf and Stone became enemies in the first place.
Madara is a kind guy. His own clan wanted to remove him from the leader position. Madara is a guy who values his clan more than anything. Their betrayal made him clear their is no one left for him to protect. He couldnt protect his father death his mothers illness his brothers death. The village he created called him warmonger. He wanted a world where even if its a dream he will jave everyone
Well Madara and the rest of the uchiha kept getting pushed and pushed until they were what they were made out to be. 🤷🏻♂️
I feel like if Madara would have been named Hokage then he wouldn't have went down the dark path he eventually went down. It's a shame, so many things could have been so different if that's how things have gone down.
Madara doesn't have to be grateful to Hashirama because he wanted to die by him anyway
Madara said only who possess the visual power can read the stone tablet .He dream of success the infinite tsykuyomi.
Madara felt rejected by everyone in the village
@@sarveshnathan7559 what do you mean they clearly didn't like him
It was nice seeing Hashirama and Madara being friends again, shame we couldn't see your reaction to Hashirama calling Madara's naming of the village 'no simplistic' and Madara comically berating him for getting depressed easily as well as making fun of him for his sad face
"...if Orochimaru lets him."
Laughs in God of Shinobi
Orochimaru already controlled him one tf u on about
If madara would have been hokage he'll definitely would have just make every other village bow down to leaf not like hashirama who distributed tailed beast like giftcards 😂😂
No, you have also followers who are girls^^
To be honest, I don't do make up that often XD
I do know of a few. :)
Undoubtedly, all the characters with white hair is BADASS
kakashi:？？？
Tobirama probably didnt actually spread any rumours. I am sure Tobirama definitely played politically and reaped from the public opinion...Tobirama is definitely a sly person but not "malicious". Tobirama's decision to get Hashirama seated as Hokage was right, Hashirama was being too sentimental in naming Madara as hokage, and tobirama probably had no choice but to rely on public pole, to convince hashirama of what the people wanted.
I agree, Hashirama was being too sentimental. I mean, it's not fair to simply give the leadership to another without having in consideration others' opinion. Not to mention that Tobirama had a point on that Hashirama was the reason why the village came to be. I mean, the idea to create the Leaf came from him and he was the one to convince Madara to stop the war between their clans.
madara would’ve been a good hokage as well. madaras whole intention was to bring true peace. tobirama was in fact “racist” towards the uchiha and spread his rumours to the people
Exactly
@@Crescentknight8189 danzo was the one that did that putting the uchiha outside of the village
Tobirama is the absolute villain in Naruto, actually is teacher/creator of Danzo
Lmao what a corny comment
Danzo was only his subordinate
Madara was right. Uchihas were second class citizen next to the Senjus and it became obvious once Tobirama became hokage and put them on the outskirts of the village. Hashirama is not innocent there, he always ended up agreeing with his brother. Despite his kind words and good intentions, he accepted the systemic racism against the Uchihas for the peace of the village as a whole. But really, "cooperation was merely a quieter form of conflict."
Having said that, Tobirama was also right. The Uchihas were dangerously powerful and unpredictable. The village was never really be truly at peace with them, and it's an Uchiha, Itachi, who would get that and one day protect the village by doing the worst most horrible thing possible. Tobirama never hated the Uchihas, he was wary and prioritized peace in the village, knowing the Uchihas were a possible threat to it, but his actions brought hate in both sides (Fugaku trying a coup d'état and Danzo plotting extermination).
In the end, it is not being able to share what is inside them that brought them to that. If Madara had not given him a choice, would Hashirama have killed his brother? Would he have truly shown that peace among Senjus and Uchihas mattered to him more than protecting his own clan to the detriment of the other? And if he did, would he have been able to truly understand Madara? I don't know...
There is a lot of conflict in this world, because people fight for the people they love and what they believe is right. Hashirama and Madara, Tobirama and Izuna, Nagato and Jiraiya, Fugaku and Itachi, even Danzo, they all wanted the very same thing: to bring true peace to protect the people they love.
So, do you think it is possible to truly share our feelings and understand one another? If so, how can you live your life to make it so?
10:22
Madara: "cooperation is just a quieter form of conflict"
This right here just proves that Madara is really not on the same path as Hashirama, it wasn't Tobirama that drove him to this path, face it since his last brother died he was always confused about what he wanted.
That stone tablet sealed the deal of what he wanted.
While there are truths to what Madara is saying, because we had villages attacking one another and minor/major internal conflict. He really never bothered to put much effort to Hashirama's dream. Maybe if he stayed a little longer he could've been the 2nd Hokage. But i guess being the 2nd Hokage is no longer the issue. Because at that moment he wanted Infinite Tsukoyomi for the whole world not just for Konoha
13:50 Hashirama cant be controlled by Orochimaru.
Ye Orochimaru said that he can undo his bindings at anytime even tho he is a reanimation which is wild AF 😂
@@awesomeness1227 well madara did so i dont see why hashirama couldnt
You could blame Danzo as he was either a young child or toddler around this time lol
She was saying that imagine who it would be if people bow down and greet.
I was like have you heard about country named India 🇮🇳 and also Japan 🇯🇵.
5:05 danzo and the third hokage clans 😅
Comeon you cant blame Madara, Tobirama was a d
The first time I saw this episode and Hashirama Senju was at sage mode and Madara Uchia protected Kurama with susanoo armor I was like well it's definitely a battle between two Gods😀.
Orochimaru doesn’t need to “let him” remember he said Hashirama could break the jutsu at any point
If anything Tobirama was too honest for his own good. Also, Tobirama was a perfect balance for Hashirama's nation building. Hashirama was the idealistic one whereas Tobirama was realistic about the future. He has every right not to trust Madara. Also, don't mistake Tobirama with Danzo. Tobirama doesn't need to spread lies. He goes for facts. He wasn't opposed to Madara being elected for the position, he just thought that it wasn't a good idea to use old tradition of selecting leaders just because you are friends with them, especially knowing the past history of the Uchiha. The Uchiha's Izanagi battle you saw when Itachi was telling Sasuke their backstory is a pure example that Uchihas, with an exception of a few, are not trusted to lead themselves, let alone other clans or the village.
*If Orochimaru lets him ofcourse*
lol... are you implying Orochimaru has a choice in that matter?
The moment you know the name hidden leaf from Madara
Tobiramas explanation of sharingan has a slight additional twist not in the anime.
The sharingan makes it harder to reason with someone in other words they become more ideologically entrenched.
This matches very well with Obito, Sasuke, Itachi, Madara, and even Indra.
In this instance, Madara was completely right. This was on Tobirama. Madara was completely onboard with being a pillar of the community. He stood down, put his anger towards the death of his brother aside, helped build the leaf to what it was, and they went behind his back to circumvent any uchiha in a leadership position in the village. Tobirama played the politician and made it so the senju the leading force behind the Hidden Leaf. It wasn't his genes. He had every right to be pissed at Hashirama.
well the genes part is when he came back to try to destroy the village lmao, that was uncalled for
Tobirama received a lot of criticism for the way he treated the Uchiha Clan. He created the Leaf Police in order to keep them preoccupied and stop them from rebelling against the Hidden Leaf. However, the Uchiha hatred only continued to grow over time. It finally led to the Uchiha launching a rebellion against Hidden Leaf. But, it is unfair to pin the entirety of the blame on Tobirama himself. Tobirama knew about the Uchiha and their "Curse of Hatred." He was aware of the fact that they would eventually rise up against the Hidden Leaf.
tobirama wasn't spreading any information both Senju and Uchiha fought each other decades they knew about each other
And if madara didn't Change his mind hashirama will be dead
Being kid you like the ideology of a hero but being adult you understand a Villian.
well peaple always forget madara dream was not a village madara dream was to protect his brother
Funnily enough, Tobirama is responsible for Madara defecting. In a way, Tobirama is responsible for many of Danzo's ideals.
Danzo was responsible for his actions
While people right away speculate that Tobirama was correct because Madara started behaving as he expected I would like to say no, Madara's behaviour is the derivative of Hashirama's and Tobirama's bad decision making. First of all, he promised that Madara will be the first Hokage(Madara never asked him), should not put the idea in people's head and then ask them to stop dreaming for that reality, it is not a good idea to put trust in people and then ask for validation of that trust. Madara had stopped Hashirama from killing himself that was enough. He should not be proving to Hashi and Tobi, again and again, he had lost enough and only done as much as othe clan's during the war. It was a world war Madara was not the only one killing every one and wanting world dominance it was everyone. Do not create expectations and then ask people to not expect.
tobrama :
from now on we run thing democraticly
also tobirama : sarutobi ,tomorrow u will be the hokage :v
tobirama is adopting his father prejudge btw ,thats why he was a douche
it's confusing for him because he's lowkey egomaniac, look at itachi, no narcissism, he just thinks of the greater good, but i think it's more a problem related to the entire clan , they can't see others ( or weaker people) as there equal. Madara is just a prime example of that.
Madara would’ve been one hell of a hokage.
And yeah tobirama was racist as f***.
Naw Madara based on the way he is would be a bad hokage, Tobirama treated everyone with the same suspicion but only did more with the Uchiha because it was warranted. Tobirama is my favorite & the best hokage
tobirama wasn't rascist he was just precautinary
@@rahulchoubey9930 maybe but his policies were almost based on a preconception that all uchiha are the same, every uchiha can end up like madara. He singled out a single clan(race) . Which by definition is racism.
To judge other only on basis of race.
@@DevilWolf000 yeah they did try to take over. But lets think about the reasons.
1. They were kept under surveillance.
2. After the nine tails attack they were forced to move to village outskirts.
3. They were blamed for not helping during the nine tails attack, even though they were ordered by village leaders to stay back and protect the civilians.
Its not about racism. Madara show to everybody who he really was.
Suzy feels the pain Gaara felt when he cried seeing Sasuke at the summit
Suzy after Rasengan, you are gonna watch KAMEHAMEHA??😂
Tobirama did one thing better than anyone of his predecessors and his successors, and that is, he turned the Hidden Leaf into a major power. He was smart enough to sell tailed beasts to other villages. His brother, Hashirama, had suggested that the tailed beasts should be given to other villages for free. Tobirama also created Leaf Police, the Chunin Exams, the ANBU and the Academy. Under his guidance, the Hidden Leaf prospered quite a lot
2:13-2:20
Whoever was alive? Practically everybody present.
Blaming deities for creating life. Life must have balance (Light/Dark), otherwise imbalance.
Hiruzen (Third Hokage): (Depressed that quote was forgotten)
Tobirama wasnt a bad person in sense of being evil. He was simply pragmatist, unlike Hashirama who was idealist. Hashirama succeeded only because he had the power and will to push his dream into reality. But Tobirama took things as they were, not as he wanted them to be. And he had a small bias on Uchihas, but wasnt so he hated them. He simply knew they tended to fall into their emotions if pushed far enough. He didnt spread rumors about Madara and Uchihas so that he didnt become First Hokage. It was simply given, the leader should be the strognest shinobi, and Hashirama defeated Madara. Simple. Thought I admit Tobirama was very harsh, only becuase he wasnt afraid to state the truth.
And when you think of it, Hashirama had one dark spot on him. He treated Kyuubi and every other Tailed Beast as simply a malevolent beast, not caring that they may have feelings, and even names themselves, unlike he treated humans. So, there is also that ;)
Plot twist: Tobirama was the main villan of naruto all along. Let madara become a hokage --> obito does not become evil --> people dont become racist against uchiha -->stability in other nations --> no akatsuki formation --> nagato and gang are good --> itachi and sasuke dont become orphans cuz no genocide --> nartuo does not become orphan. Ez
The second hokage wasn't spreading rumors the people in the village just new Uchiha had a trend of being unstable.
Hashirama is just hopelessly optimistic while Tobirama was a realist and so they balance eachother out.
Johan Liebert Tobirama is responsible for the village system as it is, he gave the Uchiha power so while keeping them at close watch. That was his response to the Uchiha acting differently, also the Chunin exams is a way of villages coming together while testing the young shinobi. Hashirama was all about peace but what happens when peace is disrupted? War breaks out and shinobi must learn to fight to protect their homes.
And how can you blame him for the first great ninja war? He was trying to negotiate peace with the cloud and the gold & silver brothers stopped that from happening. It was Hiruzen who also failed to maintain the second’s policies because he was too soft. I admit the 2nd was perhaps too hard on the Uchiha but he gave them responsibilities as a way of gaining trust.
Even as a child he talked about having a proper system that all shinobi could benefit from, he was indeed a true realist. While hashirama making that peace possible wouldn’t have an answer on how to maintain it with that peace he preaches about. You have to be stern as a leader...
Johan Liebert Tobirama is the best hokage it’s all good having ideals of peace but if you can’t maintain it then it’s all ruined. The third hokage lived through 3 ninjas wars, 2 of which he couldn’t avoid or stop, and that’s not really his fault
You can’t blame madara he wanted to protect the village and live in there but the people didn’t like him that’s some bull
Madara read the Stone tablet because his eyes
13:54 btw orochimaru doesn't need to let hashirama stop Madara.. it was mentioned in a previous episode that hasirama could break orochimarus binding whenever he wanted, tobirama would also be able to break the binding... but ofc orochimaru has hasirama dna which prevents tobirama from doing so
tobirama just really hated the uchiha
he didn't he had uchiha students when he was kage meaning he chosed an uchiha to be student he hated the ones like madara who went on rampage to destroy stuff bc it didn't went on there way
Uchiha kills both of his brothers, what the hell you want? Lol.
@@rinnemask9933 and he killed izuna 🤷🏼♂️
@@e.mich7 so..?
@@rinnemask9933 so, madara and the uchiha clan also lost people at the hands of the senju, so i don’t agree with that point. they were also hashirama’s brothers 🤷🏼♂️ tobirama just really didn’t like them at all. You could tell right from when orochimaru revived them
Just when I thought she was finally learning to be open minded, she goes right back to hating madaras decision 😂
Next revelation line: I know everything
toborama created the academy chunk exam ninja rank the police the anbu and many more in the leaf and all of his just are forbidden bc of how strong it was tobirama is the best kage in the leaf always put mission first even killed 20 s rank ninja which are all Akatsuki level and 2 kage level complete a mission
@Madara Uchiha he died by 20 s rank which are like 20 Akatsuki and 2 kage level with 9 tail chakra and still managed to complete the mission
@Madara Uchiha you didn't watch naruto did you ?
For the people who think that sasuke is crazy for wanting to destroy the leaf village well see madara reason first
And for the people who say sasuuke is weak his took his brother eye's well madara did the same
What sasuke is weak to take his brothers eyes.he would have gone blind lol if he didnot. If you consider that weaker naruto is even weaker he needs kurama for everything.In baruto sasuke with one arm is equal to naruto lol.
well tobirama thinking was right Sharingan awakened from the effect of emotion you felt in hard time that led them to make a decision which is not right so they were unpredictable
Hashirama could undo the Edo bindings and beat up the other 3 Hokage before they left the room it's just luck that he has the same attitude as Naruto, that is why he is known as the 2nd God of shinobi first being sage of six paths.
That is why Orochimaru had to use Hashirama cells to retrain Tobirama had he not had that power boost from Zetsu Hashirama cells Tobirama probably could have resinned (did what Madara did) the edo contract and killed the entire taka
Btw Tobirama wasn't spreading roumors Hashirama and the Senju's are just more likeable
I kinda hate tobirama in a way he should have kept his mouth shut
>spreading misinformation
Ain't nothing incorrect about it. The fact check is in. Tobirama is absolutely correct about the nature of the Sharingan's power source. His appraisal of the potential danger from the Uchiha isn't exactly proven far off the mark, either. It would take Nina Jesus talking up a miracle and the extinction of the bad seeds by the hand of one too pure to correct this course. His reasoning for Hashirama was flawless, as well. The only issue was Madara himself. Madara without being coddled by his best friend would just keep drifting to darkness. The slightest thing would set him off the right course (just as Tobirama claimed would happen). Hashirama pushing for his friend being the first to lead is the sort of measure that would have worked well, mind you. So long as ol' Woody kept an eye on him, it would all work out just dandy.
Yes, the only miscalculation is letting Madara live if not letting him play protector. Rumors? Nonsense. Unfair? What is unfair is throwing a tantrum (again). If he had just stopped being a bitch he could have been forced through as the Second Hokage (Tobirama got the position with no able competition around). Yes, as you come to see, the original 'Tobi' had it pretty much figured. Sad, but true. The man was already given the idea for his current plan by this point. He couldn't be talked back down anymore. As you surmised, the loss of his final brother was too much (a push over the edge). Hashirama struggled to keep him from going rogue (and ultimately failed when the slightest disturbance reared up).
>Madara never let go of Izuna being slayed
It was in mortal combat. He's got some fucking nerve (with all the Senju he killed). As you saw, the life of the top was offered up. It should have ended there. His being (rightly) mistrusted and his people's devil power regarded with suspicion really shouldn't have been that upsetting. Just how it is.
The danzo hate is weird because without him you wouldn't have a show this good and intricate. The show would be less exciting without the things he did
Once again, love the objective perspective you have and share with all of us. I can definitely relate. 😊✌
Tobirama wasn't spreading rumors to the Uchiha and there is no confirmation he was talking behind his back and he certainly wasn't making up things. It's really complicated on all sides. All the parties did what they thought was right informed by their personal experiences and unfortunately Madara was the ultimate victim and sacrifice including by his own clan.
Furthermore his life isn't something so precious to him that he would give up his convictions because Hashirama spared him. In fact I don't think it would be wrong to assume Madara wouldn't care either way if he died or not and may have preferred to die at some point. After all he had nothing to live for. Remember these are hardened warriors who have grown up with death as a normal occurrence. Death isn't something that frightens them like us.
There is no one bad guy. It's the whole system, it's the politics and also the general public. That's what a democracy is. All people get a say and Hashirama was more popular. There's nothing that can be done about that.
Tobirama supplied genocide.
" if orochimaru let's him" yeah ok, whatever you say bro 🙄
5:36 NOOOOO!! YOU CUT THAT PART!! 7n7
If mardara was hokage
The Uchiha wouldn't been exiled and watched
They wouldn't try take over and shisui would have never lost his eyes and eye, itachi would have nvr killed his clan and sasake would never had kill itachi
Still I believe the Uchiha would just overthrow whoever appose them and would be horrible leaders which would lead to a war within the village itself Every clan vs Uchiha and they would still all perish Uchiha always seemed like they believe people within the leaf looked down on them which was never the case only some village leaders feared and disliked them (Danzo) and Tobirima but unliked Danzo actually had a reason to but because of what the Uchiha believed that everyone would hate and turn on them only lead to hatred and evil giving them power of the Sharigan so in my opinion they would make bad Hokage with the only exceptions being Itachi and Shishui who we saw put the village before their own people which is a quality I believe a hokage should have it don’t matter what clan you are from if you see that your clan is in the wrong then so be it you stop them at all cause to prevent a war within the leaf
Second Hokage didn't spread rumors why does everyone hate on my boi Tobirama T~T
Remember what tobi says after he fight conan rewatching that episode to know what I mean
If Madara had been the Hokage, it could have truly changed him.
its just splitting hairs. Can you really blame tobirama for killing izuna when the uchia also killed hashiramas and tobiramas brothers in cold blood. Madara act as if uchia didnt kill senju. it was good reason for tobirama o be suspect as well as madara trust is not so easily gained in the end madaras dream caused more casualties than actual peace so i side with tobirama and hashirama here.
I understand what madara thought but i also understood what tobirama thought and he was kinda correct too. Tobirama was dedicated to protecting the village .
You're almost at one of my favourite hokage moments
2:04 “Can we blame Danzo Danzo whatever for ruining everything I don’t give a damn if he wasn’t even born at this point okay we’ll blame his mother or his grandma or whoever was alive at that time we shall blame them for bringing Danzo into the world and ruining everything.”
That’s exactly the sort of thinking that spawned the hatred in the first place.
Tobirama the 2nd Hokage was right !!!!!
the only flaw in hashirama is that he's too naive
Tobirama is an amazing character and Hokage; he wasn’t spreading lies. Stop hating on him. Where he may be a lot more stern about how to proceed Hashirama is far too kind and could be deceived in that way. Look how that got Lord Third from not being able to take out Orochimaru that one time. Lord 2nd would have done it.
Before you even talked about your makeup I thought you looked naturally pretty
Tobirama was the Trump of Konoha lmao
Tobirama even said Hashirama nominating Madara for Hokage was fine, it was just wrong for him to basically solely name Madara Hokage like he wanted. Tobirama didn’t spread any rumors either. Also it wasn’t Tobirama’s own beliefs that led him to thinking of the Uchiha’s in such a way, he’s one of the smartest characters in all of Naruto and figured out the secrets of the Sharingan just from observation and studying. It wasn’t like he just heard the rumors and spread them as is, he already knew a lot from battles over many years against Izuna, mainly and against the clan in general, and was able to get the edge on Izuna and kill him because he so greatly understood the sharingan and created Flying Rajin as a counter.
12:37
How did i miss this!!! Those are the advisors when they were kids!!!😂😂😂
Tobirama caused so much bs including Madra's fall into darkness and the Uchiha Clan Massacre all because of his treatment of the Uchiha, killing Izuna, and not understanding that the Uchiha/Sharingan's power isn't hate it is love.
The second hokage didn't spread rumors?
Can everyone just acknowledge that if it wasn't for Tobirama, there would be an Uchiha for the first out of all the hokage?
We can also acknowledge that if tobirama wouldve Just minded his bussines during the whole war everything wouldve went great
The agony in hashiramas “ehh” while crying for his brother😔
Yea, madara says he can't see the dreams of a far future, not only talking about himself but what the second Hokage will end up doing, hence why it was his follow up to "I suspect tobirama will be the second Hokage"
Suzy is beautiful with or without make up
Absolute FACTS
My guess is that main reason for madara turning on hashirama isnt tobirama but rather the stone tablet which he read and had the goal to create the infinite tsukuyomi and abandoned all the previous goals and dreams related to the village