At this point, most of Spookston's videos can be compiled into a playlist called "Gaijin is not up to the task of balancing their own highly complex game".
@@childofslaanesh1251 Those issues would not exist if Gaijin would stayed with old 20 Tier system(that can be easily extended to 50 or more tiers if needed) and never introduced BR system(that for some reason Gaijin never wants to extend)
Well, it is their fault they made the game that complex and they constantly keep adding new mechanics their game engine is completely not ready to implement - and as so we get stupid physics, bugs, disappearing rockets, helicopters with broken flight and damage models and so on. As mentioned above, BR system is a total failure, but just decompression would fix a lot of things.
"Are IFV a problem in War Thunder?" Spookston, I'm literally the first person you killed in your M3A3 video, and you did it with a top attack missile while I was behind solid terrain cover. I didn't even know I'd been full uptiered for that match.
I wonder if that more casual players don't care too much about the current br compression situation and will typically go and play a couple of games and then head off for the rest of the day.
I feel like the only thing stopping me from devoting more than an hour a day is poor matching. Developing game knowledge over time is fine but i feel like jets and 6.3+ ground is a gamble atm. I either stomp in a game or get stomped and thats just not satisfying. Its for that same reason a lot of people only play Tarkov right after a wipe instead of mid season.
@@jammygamer8961 Casual here, according to steam I have 305 hours in WT, though I played before ground forces, during ground force beta, and current-ish. So those 305 hours are spread over a lot of time. played a little russia, a little of Japan, but mostly mained Germany (of course) and stalled out at around the 5.0-6.0 BR for both planes and Tanks. While an unrelated game, WT suffers from the same problem I have with Battlefield V. It's maybe 20% fun, 80% struggle. I'll maybe play a handful of matches every other week. It just never feels like I'm getting anywhere in WT. I only used to play Arcade, but I've been playing realistic exclusively for awhile, and while I'll get a couple kills and not be a deadweight for my team, progression is just too slow. In short, I can have more fun in other games, with less grind. I'd rather pay 80 bucks for a game outright, than buy premium for the length of the game. Edit: In regards to compression, I don't feel like I'm qualified to comment on it because I play so in frequently. That said, I always made sure my line ups had consistent same-ish tier back ups to last a match. Not just one and done. I remember playing the tiger H1 at 5.7 and fighting IS-2 and not having a great time, though I had just gotten it so I guess I didn't know where to shoot at the time. In planes, I found myself constantly annoyed at Germany's weapon set ups. I'd see the american p-51 with quad 20mm's and look at my 109's one cannon and two useless mgs and kind of cringe. Still boom-and-zoomed, but felt very underwhelming at the same tier.
@@raptor2-40delta2 we are getting the dardo though! Who knows when but they admitted they are planning on adding it (hopefully this year with NOT full functional spikes)
M3A3 Bradley is like one of the shittiest IFV to play when stock, I love the BMP-2M and Begleitpanzer 57 even when stock. But my god when you unlock TOW-2B and APFSDS-belt that thing is downright dirty.
Most of vehicles are bad when they are stock. And as such we should not be judging vehicles by their stock performance. Spaded M3A3 is completely busted, way out of it's league. Meanwhile I highly dislike Begleitpanzer - the fact that it sits at the same BR as BMP-2 is a joke.
@@Knight_Igris Well, when I shoot at it, yes. But when I was driving it only a few times I have ever survived a hit :P Just like with a lot of vehicles in the game heh
It makes me very frustrated, because WT has so so so much potential, but Gayjin is purposefully gimping it for the sake of monitization. If BR compression wasn't so bad, vehicles balanced so poorly, and the maps weren't made so incompitently, it's one of the very few games I would actually pay a monthly subscription to. Unfortunately, Gayjin spits in our faces at every opportunity. I don't know about you guys, but if I wanted to pay someone to fuck me, I wouldn't go to Gayjin. It'd definitely be a better use of $40 anyways...
queue times have always been thier scapegoat. wich i find to be bullshit concidering that the game finds matches so fucking fast that its impossible to cancel matchmaking.
Ah yes I love it when my is-4m has to fight a Ifv with a 25mm bushmaster with apfsds, top down attack missile, thermals, immune to mgs and a 2 plane stab
@@V-V1875-h the r3 t20 Self Propelled Anti Anything It tanks out air, ground, and is similar to an ifv in speed and armor minus an atgm launcher on top, but that's why you get the t106 and lob hot tortellini shells at them
@@V-V1875-h none, that’s the point.. we have 3 versions for each ifv, maybe more We have the Dardo ifv (tracked) with 3 variants: 25mm apfsds with Tow2; 30mm with Spike; 60mm hvg Then we have the Freccia ifv but also the 25mm version has Spike And then the Iveco VBA which is a amphibious vehicle armed with 30mm and Spike Seeing this video Gaijin might want to rethink implementing more, meaning Italy (or France) will not see ifv anytime soon
I remember my grandpa told me how his jumbo got destroyed by a missile from a downtiered marder and when he was on a routine patrol in his p47 he got sniped by 1 too across all map
@@PyroBlonde7777 If that was the case yeah. Thing I hate is the BMP1 is the only thing with that kind of power at that BR. There are less powerful tanks at a higher BR.
Super sonics/Jump Jets: "Guys I can explain." Tanks: "You guys are pub stomping cold war planes/ww2 planes while we're dealing with HE rebalances and wheeled lunchboxes?" IFVs: "You guys dealing with vehicles too fast? Gaijin can't balance out what BR i'm supposed to be!" Superheavies: "You guys are getting rebalanced?"
It's almost like Gaijin needs to stop balancing by player stats and start balancing by technical capability or something. It would fix the German undertiered vehicles, the British overtiered vehicles, the IFV problemm, everything.
It's almost like a thing called time exists to help us balance... It's almost as if adding contemporaries instead of loading up Germany helps balance... Maybe we should punish the snail if they like soulless 💲markets💲 so much... Very strange how reality gives us all this help and we prefer the speedrun to prison.
Honestly the only IFV I have ever found to be annoying and/or OP is the M3A3. Rarely do I see Type 89, and all the other ones are fairly easy to combat.
One interesting video is maybe trying to see how Gaijin could fix the BR system. Besides increasing the range, what else could be done? Only thing I can think about is maybe a .5 BR.
"Rely more on user feedback then user stats." Yup. Thats what Gaijin really needs to do, across the board. Unfortunately user feedback is often way to varied to figure out who is right and wrong.....
BMP2M would propably be 10.7 worthy if gaijin would model its Automatic Target Tracking, beeing able to destroy air and ground assets without the player having to make any mouse inputs. Even as it stands it would be more than capableif it was moved to 9.3, 9.7 or even 10.0
Bmpt Terminator Bmpt 15 armata pls too Germany isn't the only one ain't seeing all there potential... For the t80 would be upgrades available to Ud or Ue T90M would also be nice.
@@cillersbadass7590 arent u satisfied with 9 top tier mbts? Or 3 ifvs? My gosh. Let evrryone have equal stuff And the bmpt is something hard to balance atm. So dont make the player base mad again, dont be gaijin
@@cillersbadass7590 suprised war thunder players know the armata isnt just the t14 mbt. thought u all were just tards who only know vehicles in the game
My poor begleit didn't even get a mention. Hands down the best ifv in the game. Every situation is perfect for it. Trolly armour. Only downside is that it's lacking a stabilizer
I'm glad this is getting attention. I stopped playing 7.7 just because I was sick of getting fucked through the roof by a M3A3 missle outside of my guns effective range every single uptier
Full uptiers are bad for everyone. If you ever use the 2B, you'll know how gimmicky it really is, and that it's really only effective about 50% of the time.
You make an excellent point. There also is the issue of when Late WWII tanks run into Cold War tanks. A perfect example is the US M47/48 Pattons and the Leopard 1 fighting Tiger IIs and T32s. The late war tanks have really good guns and very good armor, but are completely vulnerable to HEAT FS that Cold War Tanks have, meanwhile the late war tanks can have trouble penetrating their opponents. I’ve had numerous incidents where a leopard 1 some how bounces my shells when it shouldn’t. The Patton’s have decent survivability though and can take a hits or too, thus making the guns of the WWII tanks ineffective as they are meant to handle an opponent in one shot.
@@einar8019 No, slow heavy armor WW2 tanks and destroyers were not meant to fight fast moving vehicles with HEAT FS and Sabot with superior ballistics and ATGMs
BTR-80A does way better in uptiers because you face opponents you can actually damage. Sitting at 7.3, your 30mm has only 82mm penetration and can hardly scratch anything in a downtier. Such a strange problem to have.
The Type 89 is one of Japan's only great vehicles. It can easily go up to 8.7 or 9.0. Though you bring it with those line ups anyways.. considering this is the only IFV for Japan i'd classify it as doing just fine where it sits.
Speaking of the 9040 BILL: It was recently buffed by having its stabilizer work at higher speeds. This buff, however, was also accompanied by a nerf that affected all the9040ss by making the loader take 5 seconds to reload one (1) shell back into the ready rack, making them borderline unusable. A lot of IFVs also received an IRST tracking system for air targets. The 9040s were not included in that despite having that ability in reality. Despite all of these changes, the BILL was also moved up to 10.0 where it can't keep up with the pace of the match. I suspect the reasoning for moving it up was because of the missiles being top attack, which sounds great on paper. In my experience, it doesn't have the killing potential everyone says it has. The jet from the missile doesn't create a lot of spall and oftentimes gets blocked by the cannon breech or a crew member, preventing the jet from hitting ammunition. Combining that with the dreadfully slow reload rate makes the vehicle a pain to play, and almost impossible to have fun in.
The bagelpanzer is a good example of this balancing issue. It got moved to 8.3 from 8.7 because it had a lot of drawbacks that made it sometimes difficult to do well in when it first got added. But after the addition of thermals (which i cant find and thermal cameras on the bagel model btw) and the HUGE buff to its usability with the strf style ammo system and proxy fuse HE. The bagel should not be at 8.3 it has more penetration on its aphe than both the bradley and the bmp2 and its got a 57mm APHE shell that can one shot tanks. A really good scope. Insane elevation and really powerful proxy fuse HE shells that actually make it often a better choice as a dedicated spaa than the Gerard. And a very very small turret profile. Pound for pound the bagel is one of the best ifvs in game yet it sits only .3 above the bradley.
@@Serkay64 the accuracy is actually pretty decent. Its only bad when your an idiot and dont play it how its supposed to be played. Calm and with 2 to 3 seconds between each precise shot. And only increasing fire rate when in a cqc fight.
BMP-3 at 9.0 with a 38 second reload on the ATGM, 82mm of pen on the autocannon and a slower rate of fire than the BMP-2. They buffed the reload and dropped it down a BR, but now it just sits at the same BR as the BMP-2M while being worse in every regard.
One problem I have with this and other ATGM launchers that have separate optics is that they limit you to the zoom & sighting of the main gun rather than the ATGM. WT lists the Ratel 20's zoom as 1.8 to 3.5. When using the Milan, it should be 6 or 8 (still looking for official reference). An easy way to do this would be to switch to the ATGM sight as soon as the ATGM is fired and switch back if the 20mm is fired. For comparison, the Milan ER, which has a 3km range, has a 7x-21x zoom so the original Milan's 2k range should have something that starts in the range of 6.
As a side note, there is at least one strap-on thermal sight upgrade is available for the MILAN called MIRA.
The main issue with IFV and generally,ligth vhicles,is that armour doesn't exist for then to get balanced,this means that they can be playabled WAY higher than other vehicles on the game,and they can have a ton of versatility,with autocanons,they can deal with anything placed agains it,planes,tanks,helicopters,other ligth tanks....
Top attack is essentially broken. Things like T-64/72/90 have 4km/h reverse speed making it impossible to retreat far enough downhill to stop the missile from fuzing. The distance at which the missile fuzes is also comically large. You can hit things hiding behind small buildings.
I really hope the devs have listened to your feedback at any point. Your suggestions sound very reasonable to me and it would seem to also stand to benefit the product. I for one would actually play WT more often if your suggestions were implemented!
I think an important thaing to note is that missile reload times are really inconsistent between vehicles. A prime example is how vehicles like the bmp 1 and 2 have a very quick reload on there missile launcher, while historically this would of been a lengthy process, meanwhile the BMP 3 gets a historical reload for missiles with it's 100mm gun, despite that fact that irl the bmp 3 would of probably had a quick and safer reload than any ifvs where they have to load manually.
I'm impressed there's no mention of the BMP-1 situation where it's somewhat underwhelming yet perfectly serviceable stock but completely and outrageously overpowered when upgraded with the BMP-1P package; goes double for the chinese variant that gets a 10.0 worthy tandem ATGM in such manner.
Something that sucks is that we all know there isn't ever going to be a big overhaul to fix a lot of the problems that exist with Warthunder. A fix for low-tiers in High-tiers could be solved if Gaijen was willing to spend some time testing and working on it. This is just something I came up with and might not be a good idea. But if instead of having fixed-cost systems in GB. Have it so a vehicle is worth however much is appropriate. So if you took a JU-87 into a battle with 6.0+ You would instead have a cheaper cost to buy the plane. Another example that'd I'd love is something like All-out battles. Where it's something like Ground Realistic Battle. But instead of having only one life for one vehicle. Have it instead be where there is a ticket system like in the Battlefield series. You can get killed and respawn as much as you want. But if the tickets hit zero then you lose the game. Maybe make it a requirement for you to have more than one vehicle in your inventory so you aren't spamming the same vehicle. Maybe depending. But Helicopters and Airplanes could be allowed from the start. Maybe make it a random choice. Like the AI will randomly allow 1 or 2 people on each team a Helicopter or Jet. There is also just the horrendous design of balancing shit with the repair cost.
People who say the M3A3 is balanced are probably the same people who say G91 is op while playing a deck with a FJ4B, A4E, A4B and the only ground vehicle is the M3A3.
Yeah I have no idea why the Chadley is at 8.7. I’ve actually never used an 8.7 and have only used it at 10.0 and above and I do pretty good with it. I can’t even imagine what it’s like to play it at 8.7.
The difference between the people that think they are balanced, and the ones that don't, is that the ones that thinks that they are balanced, are the ones that are using them themselves quite often, while the ones that don't find them to be balanced are usually using regular tanks and not the IFV's
To be fair, I bring the Strf 9040 BILL into 10.7 matches and it performs very well. Its missile can one tap anything if you use them properly, even if your target is behind cover. I feel people suffer playing it because they don't adjust there playstyle properly when using it. If you can manage to get to a good flanking position, you can almost single handedly hold down a whole cap point by yourself. I feel like this would also apply to the M3A3 Bradley (and all the other IFVs) as well, though I haven't played it so that's just an assumption.
Its not the size that counts, its the motion of the ocean. I went through all BMPs before they added the BTR-80 to the game, I recently unlocked it and have been working on Acing it. I have no problem bringing my 7.3 into 10.7 uptiers. The 30mm cannon is actually more useful at uptiers because with downtiers you face more opponents with extremely thick armor. I also like to bring along my Zis-30 because the 57mm cannon is actually viable against IFVs and I even took out an STRV 121 using it once.
BMP-2M is utterly monstrous for its BR, it deserves to be nowhere close to the current BR it's at. It was honestly fine just being at 9.3, even 9.0. 7.7 tanks have no chance against those ATGMs, ERA is useless against it which is common at 8.3+ and even some top tier MBTs stand no chance when they get hit by one of those missiles. That is an IFV that in my opinion needs to go back up.
Yes because BMP-2M DEFINITELY has top-down ATGMs, it's DEFINITELY not broken in terms of controls and Kornets are OP as fuck (ffs I remember two fucking Kornets hitting BMP-2 turret without overpressure).
@@beatricevonkircheisen5300 Poorly aimed shots is not really the vehicle's problem its the players problem. I noticed the average Bradley player using 2 to 3 TOW-2B's to kill one tank. That doesn't make the Bradley A3 a bad vehicle it's just that the user doesn't know how to use it properly. And overpressure is pretty wonky for most types of shells save for HE at this time.
As an Italian main, I haven't had the opportunity to use any of these IFVs, but Gaijin has now confirmed that the Dardo IFV is on the way. Since the Dardo uses Spike-LR missiles, I doubt we'll get the full power of the thing, rather one that uses TOWs or MILANs instead. Hell, maybe just one without missiles at all. I imagine it'll go in at 8.7 or 9.0 if it gets missiles, but it could be even lower if Gaijin feels particularly weird that day. Honestly, I can't wait to finally get my hands on an actual IFV for Italy instead of a slightly armored box with a TOW and 50 cal, but I understand that this is definitely an issue which requires a lot more than Gaijin is willing to do.
It's a sales tactic. Flavour of the month balancing. -> Release new overpowered vehicle. -> Ignore complaints while sales skyrocket. -> Rebalance vehicle when sales die down. -> Repeat. World of Tanks has been doing this for years, and it works. Players willingly flock to overpowered vehicles and will spend money to enjoy them for as long as possible. A few months go by, and a new more powerful vehicle is released. The cycle repeats.
Just a thing regarding BR compression. The reason gaijin doesn't want longer queue times, is because, overall, the rate at which we acquire rp and silver lions per hour would drop considerably. If something like hat would've happen, costs in both rp and sl would also to be balanced and obviously, gaijin doesn't want any of that.
War Thunders IFV problem is that Gaijin to this day refuses to add a Marder 1 while adding at this point 4 or more marder chasiss based vehicles. And yeah the Type 89 kinda spanks, the thing really has to go up. Same for the M3A3, it's pretty ridiculous.
@@chechenfeels The R2Y2 cost more stock then a almost spaded J7W1. The Ho-ri Production costs 17k stock. The Ki-84 at 6.3 costs 18k stock just because it has 30mm. The Zero at 3.7 costs 10k now. The new Zero that got all the hype was already behind a paywall of 18k before anyone played it. Yeah, I think they actually hate us.
I think these are some of the same issues that light tanks face, as a fair few are undertiered due to people not knowing how to use their mobility, scouting, etc. Now most are balanced like glass cannons.
in my opinion ifvs are not supposed to be played aggressively. when i play ifvs, i usually, or nearly always stick to being support. usually slightly behind the main group, helping repair, drone scout, and prevent enemy tanks from flanking whatever few tanks i'm behind at that moment.
3:23 French tanker helps Japanese IFV driver destroy an IS4, then retreats into a parallel dimension.
Colorized, 1942
3:24 so much recoil he went to another dimension
now he is 4 paralel universes ahead of us
😂
@@nitsu2947 Maybe he's actually playing a good game if that's the case.
got teleported to world of tanks
3:23 now that's what i call recoil
roflmao hqhahqha
Holy shit
💀
*French 120mm gun superiority*
Holy Jesus. What is that? What the fuck is that?
Spookston being a good teammate at 3:00
Wholesome 🙂
Wholesome 😱
too wholesome
YES!
When i see an ally repairing under fire i try to hook them
At this point, most of Spookston's videos can be compiled into a playlist called "Gaijin is not up to the task of balancing their own highly complex game".
you forgot the part where half of the issues are fixed by decompressing the br
@@childofslaanesh1251 Those issues would not exist if Gaijin would stayed with old 20 Tier system(that can be easily extended to 50 or more tiers if needed) and never introduced BR system(that for some reason Gaijin never wants to extend)
Well, it is their fault they made the game that complex and they constantly keep adding new mechanics their game engine is completely not ready to implement - and as so we get stupid physics, bugs, disappearing rockets, helicopters with broken flight and damage models and so on. As mentioned above, BR system is a total failure, but just decompression would fix a lot of things.
I'm going to feel really bad for him once he truly realizes Gaijin genuinely does not care about feedback and isn't interested in fixing their game.
@@alpha_mach5049 Well, I believe he has realized it by now... All that comes are just hopeless or naive attempts of trying to make them do something
3:23 jesus CHRIST that's one hell of a recoil!
Lmao yeah
eh, casual recoil for a sturmpanzer 2 player lol
@asdrubale bisanzio it's not server issue. It's a Feature!
"Are IFV a problem in War Thunder?"
Spookston, I'm literally the first person you killed in your M3A3 video, and you did it with a top attack missile while I was behind solid terrain cover. I didn't even know I'd been full uptiered for that match.
feels bad man
“more people would be willing to play the game if things were more balanced” what a burn
I wonder if that more casual players don't care too much about the current br compression situation and will typically go and play a couple of games and then head off for the rest of the day.
I used to play world of tanks and thought maybe I should try war thunder I started and instantly agreed with spookston
I feel like the only thing stopping me from devoting more than an hour a day is poor matching. Developing game knowledge over time is fine but i feel like jets and 6.3+ ground is a gamble atm. I either stomp in a game or get stomped and thats just not satisfying. Its for that same reason a lot of people only play Tarkov right after a wipe instead of mid season.
@@jammygamer8961 Casual here, according to steam I have 305 hours in WT, though I played before ground forces, during ground force beta, and current-ish. So those 305 hours are spread over a lot of time. played a little russia, a little of Japan, but mostly mained Germany (of course) and stalled out at around the 5.0-6.0 BR for both planes and Tanks.
While an unrelated game, WT suffers from the same problem I have with Battlefield V. It's maybe 20% fun, 80% struggle. I'll maybe play a handful of matches every other week. It just never feels like I'm getting anywhere in WT. I only used to play Arcade, but I've been playing realistic exclusively for awhile, and while I'll get a couple kills and not be a deadweight for my team, progression is just too slow.
In short, I can have more fun in other games, with less grind. I'd rather pay 80 bucks for a game outright, than buy premium for the length of the game.
Edit: In regards to compression, I don't feel like I'm qualified to comment on it because I play so in frequently. That said, I always made sure my line ups had consistent same-ish tier back ups to last a match. Not just one and done. I remember playing the tiger H1 at 5.7 and fighting IS-2 and not having a great time, though I had just gotten it so I guess I didn't know where to shoot at the time. In planes, I found myself constantly annoyed at Germany's weapon set ups. I'd see the american p-51 with quad 20mm's and look at my 109's one cannon and two useless mgs and kind of cringe. Still boom-and-zoomed, but felt very underwhelming at the same tier.
@@Albus_Rex yea war thunder is very grindy.
They keep adding higher and higher level tanks and planes but never adjust the grind to account for it.
France mains be like: where IFV
*Laughs in AMX-10P still not in WT*
*Laughs in VBCI still not in WT*
Wdym? That's what the amx-30 dca is for
@@choppergunner8650 *laughs on puma ifv*
Italy main be like: Same
@@raptor2-40delta2 we are getting the dardo though! Who knows when but they admitted they are planning on adding it (hopefully this year with NOT full functional spikes)
"War Thunder's IFV Problem"
*Boy this is gonna be interesting*
M3A3 Bradley is like one of the shittiest IFV to play when stock, I love the BMP-2M and Begleitpanzer 57 even when stock. But my god when you unlock TOW-2B and APFSDS-belt that thing is downright dirty.
@@eesmaaura4961 mate the m3a3 stock is a beast but when everything is unlocked the whole enemy team is scared as shit
Most of vehicles are bad when they are stock. And as such we should not be judging vehicles by their stock performance. Spaded M3A3 is completely busted, way out of it's league. Meanwhile I highly dislike Begleitpanzer - the fact that it sits at the same BR as BMP-2 is a joke.
@@Lehr-km5be the Begleitpanzer has some bullshit survivability at times
@@Knight_Igris Well, when I shoot at it, yes. But when I was driving it only a few times I have ever survived a hit :P Just like with a lot of vehicles in the game heh
They won’t decompress BR’s because they have a financial incentive to keep the status quo and forget about the issue.
It makes me very frustrated, because WT has so so so much potential, but Gayjin is purposefully gimping it for the sake of monitization. If BR compression wasn't so bad, vehicles balanced so poorly, and the maps weren't made so incompitently, it's one of the very few games I would actually pay a monthly subscription to. Unfortunately, Gayjin spits in our faces at every opportunity.
I don't know about you guys, but if I wanted to pay someone to fuck me, I wouldn't go to Gayjin. It'd definitely be a better use of $40 anyways...
queue times have always been thier scapegoat. wich i find to be bullshit concidering that the game finds matches so fucking fast that its impossible to cancel matchmaking.
@@emptyforrest yeah.
Ah yes I love it when my is-4m has to fight a Ifv with a 25mm bushmaster with apfsds, top down attack missile, thermals, immune to mgs and a 2 plane stab
APDS*
*Apfsds
1:28 that was a real good and cool shot with ATGM.
3:22
Get gaijin’d
*every italian seeing this video
"Thanks spook, now gaijin will never put more ifvs to the pizza nation"
What IFV is in the Italian tech tree?
Or for france xC
@@V-V1875-h the r3 t20
Self
Propelled
Anti
Anything
It tanks out air, ground, and is similar to an ifv in speed and armor minus an atgm launcher on top, but that's why you get the t106 and lob hot tortellini shells at them
@@V-V1875-h none, that’s the point.. we have 3 versions for each ifv, maybe more
We have the Dardo ifv (tracked) with 3 variants: 25mm apfsds with Tow2; 30mm with Spike; 60mm hvg
Then we have the Freccia ifv but also the 25mm version has Spike
And then the Iveco VBA which is a amphibious vehicle armed with 30mm and Spike
Seeing this video Gaijin might want to rethink implementing more, meaning Italy (or France) will not see ifv anytime soon
@@williewilson2250 that's an armored car
I remember my grandpa told me how his jumbo got destroyed by a missile from a downtiered marder and when he was on a routine patrol in his p47 he got sniped by 1 too across all map
Cries in 7.0 heavy getting bullied by BMP
Lmao I used to be a bmp1 main but this was when it was new and it was considered "bad". Sad what happened to heavies though.
I think 100% that the bmp1 could go to 8.0. They are just way to powerful for 7.3
@@DeserteagleS71 well, I could agree to 7.7 which basically means it'll be up tiered every match.
@@PyroBlonde7777 If that was the case yeah. Thing I hate is the BMP1 is the only thing with that kind of power at that BR. There are less powerful tanks at a higher BR.
In the meantime, the French AMX-13 (HOT) at 8.0 with the worst gun, the worst rocket ammo capacity and less survivability.
Super sonics/Jump Jets: "Guys I can explain."
Tanks: "You guys are pub stomping cold war planes/ww2 planes while we're dealing with HE rebalances and wheeled lunchboxes?"
IFVs: "You guys dealing with vehicles too fast? Gaijin can't balance out what BR i'm supposed to be!"
Superheavies: "You guys are getting rebalanced?"
Not just superheavies.
Allheavies at 6.x+
Ifv are op, if you aim the cannon barrel and tracks 99.99% chance that you kill the opponent
I stopped playing the T95 after 30 seconds of living, I got bombed and he 20,000 silver lions get flushed away.
@@Spougggaato138
IFV when a HE round or APFDS hits it: “My time has come”
*Crew has been knocked out*
@@Predator20357 is there he round at 10.7 exept russian,swesen tanks ?
Everytime I see you post an IFV video I get excited as I love bmps and the Bradley's, my most favorite isn't quite an ifv, the m901
the M901 isn't an IFV at all. It is a dedicated anti-tank vehicle.
@@rob-d7h I literally said it wasn't an ifv
@@StarGazer0685 I was distinguishing "not quite an IFV" which makes it sound in the same ballpark
Spookston's the best. Mauling IFV's and Gaijin and at 3.23 included a major dig at Gaijin's chuffing servers, all without mentioning it. Hats off.
Will Gaijin even see this?
@asdrubale bisanzio Ah yes the old "Thats not a German." retort.
R3 be like "DOOR STUCK! DOOR STUCK!!! Oh, thanks mate!"
It's the Swedish rocket car, not an R3...
IFV has this op armor concept where they place the engine at the front and somehow absorb a shell that can penetrate 200mm+ of armor.
Last time i was this early, the Austria was being annexed
(Last time i was this early), the Austria was still on the Austria-Hungary dual monarchy system.
no more funni austria
@@jesusernestohernandez5915 uhhh sorry for my insolence but what does that mean? Was Austria being ruled by Germany?
Anschluss desu!
Sorry, that's first thing i thought with your pfp.
Grommit Mug he’s talking about the Kingdom Austria-Hungary in WW1. A dual monarchy is when two kingdoms are ruled by one monarch.
It's almost like Gaijin needs to stop balancing by player stats and start balancing by technical capability or something. It would fix the German undertiered vehicles, the British overtiered vehicles, the IFV problemm, everything.
fixing brs? nah, another top tier premium will surely fix every single problem this game has
It's almost like a thing called time exists to help us balance...
It's almost as if adding contemporaries instead of loading up Germany helps balance...
Maybe we should punish the snail if they like soulless 💲markets💲 so much...
Very strange how reality gives us all this help and we prefer the speedrun to prison.
3:23 *Gaijin'ed*
"Maybe rely more on user feedback than user stats" is applicable to nearly every problem this game has lmao
3:23 anyone else see that super fast tank enter the Matrix after Spook shot?
is it me or is spookston basically a professor for War Thunder
10/10 would take this uni course
last time I was this early, hull break worked correctly
was it even working correctly ?
@@TehShinegami exactly
So when Gaijin was writing down ideas for the game before development?
@@derrickstorm6976 i don't think they were even writing shit down...
Hullbreak is no longer in the game.
0:12 ey that poor swingfire is me, I noticed you in that match and wondered if I'd make it in the video. Got our asses handed to us that match.
Honestly the only IFV I have ever found to be annoying and/or OP is the M3A3.
Rarely do I see Type 89, and all the other ones are fairly easy to combat.
3:20 damn that's some sick recoil
Love fighting bmp 1s in my Pershing, going to 9.0 and still fighting german bmp1s because it's a perfectly viable vehicle there too
Na if it had a stabilizer maybe but it should definitely be at least 8.0
One interesting video is maybe trying to see how Gaijin could fix the BR system. Besides increasing the range, what else could be done? Only thing I can think about is maybe a .5 BR.
+- 0.7
maybe 0.2 for more precise BR placements?
3:23,
You are about to travel to: The Shadow Realm
Would you like to continue?
Yes (Fire gun) No (keep driving)
::plays french:: ::cries in lack of stabilizers, which is not historically accurate::
I see friendly Bradley’s ligit dominating on 8.0
3:23 he destroyed the IS-4 and then instantly retreated back into cover xD
3:23
Spook: "Hey, you are in my line of fire!"
AMX-50: "Oh, sorry!" *wraps back through time and space*
"Rely more on user feedback then user stats." Yup. Thats what Gaijin really needs to do, across the board. Unfortunately user feedback is often way to varied to figure out who is right and wrong.....
BMP2M would propably be 10.7 worthy if gaijin would model its Automatic Target Tracking, beeing able to destroy air and ground assets without the player having to make any mouse inputs.
Even as it stands it would be more than capableif it was moved to 9.3, 9.7 or even 10.0
I need my Puma
The visual models are already present for the puma and marder, idk why they still not added
Bmpt Terminator
Bmpt 15 armata pls too
Germany isn't the only one ain't seeing all there potential...
For the t80 would be upgrades available to Ud or Ue
T90M would also be nice.
Puma with Spike missiles would completely ruin the game
@@cillersbadass7590 arent u satisfied with 9 top tier mbts? Or 3 ifvs? My gosh. Let evrryone have equal stuff
And the bmpt is something hard to balance atm. So dont make the player base mad again, dont be gaijin
@@cillersbadass7590 suprised war thunder players know the armata isnt just the t14 mbt. thought u all were just tards who only know vehicles in the game
"Maybe rely more on user feedback than user stats."
This advice could apply to nearly every software company on the planet right now.
My poor begleit didn't even get a mention. Hands down the best ifv in the game. Every situation is perfect for it. Trolly armour. Only downside is that it's lacking a stabilizer
The current M3A3 is the perfect reward for those who survived the M3 grind.
I'm glad this is getting attention. I stopped playing 7.7 just because I was sick of getting fucked through the roof by a M3A3 missle outside of my guns effective range every single uptier
Full uptiers are bad for everyone. If you ever use the 2B, you'll know how gimmicky it really is, and that it's really only effective about 50% of the time.
@@Huski3s Yeah, honestly it all comes back to what Spookston discussed: BR decompression
Spooks music selection continues to be spot on :D
You make an excellent point. There also is the issue of when Late WWII tanks run into Cold War tanks. A perfect example is the US M47/48 Pattons and the Leopard 1 fighting Tiger IIs and T32s. The late war tanks have really good guns and very good armor, but are completely vulnerable to HEAT FS that Cold War Tanks have, meanwhile the late war tanks can have trouble penetrating their opponents. I’ve had numerous incidents where a leopard 1 some how bounces my shells when it shouldn’t. The Patton’s have decent survivability though and can take a hits or too, thus making the guns of the WWII tanks ineffective as they are meant to handle an opponent in one shot.
EXACTLY
This is litterally a skill issue
@@einar8019 No, slow heavy armor WW2 tanks and destroyers were not meant to fight fast moving vehicles with HEAT FS and Sabot with superior ballistics and ATGMs
BTR-80A does way better in uptiers because you face opponents you can actually damage. Sitting at 7.3, your 30mm has only 82mm penetration and can hardly scratch anything in a downtier. Such a strange problem to have.
The Type 89 is one of Japan's only great vehicles. It can easily go up to 8.7 or 9.0. Though you bring it with those line ups anyways.. considering this is the only IFV for Japan i'd classify it as doing just fine where it sits.
3:23 What the hell happened there lmaooo
3:23 These French hit-and-run tactics are really getting out of hand.
Speaking of the 9040 BILL:
It was recently buffed by having its stabilizer work at higher speeds. This buff, however, was also accompanied by a nerf that affected all the9040ss by making the loader take 5 seconds to reload one (1) shell back into the ready rack, making them borderline unusable.
A lot of IFVs also received an IRST tracking system for air targets. The 9040s were not included in that despite having that ability in reality.
Despite all of these changes, the BILL was also moved up to 10.0 where it can't keep up with the pace of the match. I suspect the reasoning for moving it up was because of the missiles being top attack, which sounds great on paper. In my experience, it doesn't have the killing potential everyone says it has.
The jet from the missile doesn't create a lot of spall and oftentimes gets blocked by the cannon breech or a crew member, preventing the jet from hitting ammunition. Combining that with the dreadfully slow reload rate makes the vehicle a pain to play, and almost impossible to have fun in.
Warthunder: exists
Spookston: somethings wrong I can feel it
The bagelpanzer is a good example of this balancing issue. It got moved to 8.3 from 8.7 because it had a lot of drawbacks that made it sometimes difficult to do well in when it first got added.
But after the addition of thermals (which i cant find and thermal cameras on the bagel model btw) and the HUGE buff to its usability with the strf style ammo system and proxy fuse HE.
The bagel should not be at 8.3 it has more penetration on its aphe than both the bradley and the bmp2 and its got a 57mm APHE shell that can one shot tanks.
A really good scope.
Insane elevation and really powerful proxy fuse HE shells that actually make it often a better choice as a dedicated spaa than the Gerard.
And a very very small turret profile.
Pound for pound the bagel is one of the best ifvs in game yet it sits only .3 above the bradley.
The main problem with the Bagel is the lack of a stabilizer and horrible accuracy of its cannon.
@@Serkay64 the accuracy is actually pretty decent. Its only bad when your an idiot and dont play it how its supposed to be played. Calm and with 2 to 3 seconds between each precise shot. And only increasing fire rate when in a cqc fight.
I can't Believe that this video was made 2 years ago and IFV's still haven't been fixed
Type 89 lost 2 ATGM and lacks lineup, gear 1 is also bugged.
At the end of the video you almost make me cry with that Halo 3: ODST theme. the first note is all it took.
Wait im researching the Bradley 2 and they release a Bradley 3? By the time i reach Bradley 3 they already will be at bradley 11 lol
It’s like the iPhone they gotta release something slightly newer so the government will spend more money to buy it.
The sequel isn't that great though, it's mainly coasting on nostalgia bucks.
you mean m3a2 and m3a3, or i am wrong?
Well...Dardo i hope you will be add, in the near future, for a better experience than the M113 with the TOW.
BMP-3 at 9.0 with a 38 second reload on the ATGM, 82mm of pen on the autocannon and a slower rate of fire than the BMP-2. They buffed the reload and dropped it down a BR, but now it just sits at the same BR as the BMP-2M while being worse in every regard.
I think a lot of warthunder's problem could be solved by "Rely more on player feedback than player stats"
Got 99 problems and spookston knows em all.
When the Strf 90 BILL is worse performing than the M3A3 and still at a whole br higher...
Gaijin really doesn't give crap anymore
One problem I have with this and other ATGM launchers that have separate optics is that they limit you to the zoom & sighting of the main gun rather than the ATGM. WT lists the Ratel 20's zoom as 1.8 to 3.5. When using the Milan, it should be 6 or 8 (still looking for official reference). An easy way to do this would be to switch to the ATGM sight as soon as the ATGM is fired and switch back if the 20mm is fired.
For comparison, the Milan ER, which has a 3km range, has a 7x-21x zoom so the original Milan's 2k range should have something that starts in the range of 6.
As a side note, there is at least one strap-on thermal sight upgrade is available for the MILAN called MIRA.
And now the type 89 lost turret rotation, the ability to fire on the move, elevation angles, etc.
You put far more thought into this than Gaijin did.
The main issue with IFV and generally,ligth vhicles,is that armour doesn't exist for then to get balanced,this means that they can be playabled WAY higher than other vehicles on the game,and they can have a ton of versatility,with autocanons,they can deal with anything placed agains it,planes,tanks,helicopters,other ligth tanks....
0:42 yep he was the real spookston
IFV’s in armor combat are usually a support role or light scouting. Yes they can ouch way above their weight class but they are an IFV for a Reason
Top attack is essentially broken. Things like T-64/72/90 have 4km/h reverse speed making it impossible to retreat far enough downhill to stop the missile from fuzing.
The distance at which the missile fuzes is also comically large. You can hit things hiding behind small buildings.
I really hope the devs have listened to your feedback at any point. Your suggestions sound very reasonable to me and it would seem to also stand to benefit the product. I for one would actually play WT more often if your suggestions were implemented!
Dude your outro is legendary
I think an important thaing to note is that missile reload times are really inconsistent between vehicles. A prime example is how vehicles like the bmp 1 and 2 have a very quick reload on there missile launcher, while historically this would of been a lengthy process, meanwhile the BMP 3 gets a historical reload for missiles with it's 100mm gun, despite that fact that irl the bmp 3 would of probably had a quick and safer reload than any ifvs where they have to load manually.
I'm impressed there's no mention of the BMP-1 situation where it's somewhat underwhelming yet perfectly serviceable stock but completely and outrageously overpowered when upgraded with the BMP-1P package; goes double for the chinese variant that gets a 10.0 worthy tandem ATGM in such manner.
the 1P should be a different tank
Before I cont on the vid, One thing I see a serve like with IFV's are the Infantry them selves not beenin' there.
Something that sucks is that we all know there isn't ever going to be a big overhaul to fix a lot of the problems that exist with Warthunder. A fix for low-tiers in High-tiers could be solved if Gaijen was willing to spend some time testing and working on it.
This is just something I came up with and might not be a good idea. But if instead of having fixed-cost systems in GB. Have it so a vehicle is worth however much is appropriate. So if you took a JU-87 into a battle with 6.0+ You would instead have a cheaper cost to buy the plane.
Another example that'd I'd love is something like All-out battles. Where it's something like Ground Realistic Battle. But instead of having only one life for one vehicle. Have it instead be where there is a ticket system like in the Battlefield series. You can get killed and respawn as much as you want. But if the tickets hit zero then you lose the game. Maybe make it a requirement for you to have more than one vehicle in your inventory so you aren't spamming the same vehicle. Maybe depending. But Helicopters and Airplanes could be allowed from the start. Maybe make it a random choice. Like the AI will randomly allow 1 or 2 people on each team a Helicopter or Jet.
There is also just the horrendous design of balancing shit with the repair cost.
People who say the M3A3 is balanced are probably the same people who say G91 is op while playing a deck with a FJ4B, A4E, A4B and the only ground vehicle is the M3A3.
The warrior is one of the lower br ifvs and yet I think it is my favourite vehicle at 10.7
Whatever you say, the worst thing is fighting a panther with a t-34-85 or kv-85
Yeah I have no idea why the Chadley is at 8.7. I’ve actually never used an 8.7 and have only used it at 10.0 and above and I do pretty good with it. I can’t even imagine what it’s like to play it at 8.7.
Imagine playing a modern Ifv against things like maus or Is4 which are desings more than 4 dacade older
The difference between the people that think they are balanced, and the ones that don't, is that the ones that thinks that they are balanced, are the ones that are using them themselves quite often, while the ones that don't find them to be balanced are usually using regular tanks and not the IFV's
To be fair, I bring the Strf 9040 BILL into 10.7 matches and it performs very well. Its missile can one tap anything if you use them properly, even if your target is behind cover. I feel people suffer playing it because they don't adjust there playstyle properly when using it. If you can manage to get to a good flanking position, you can almost single handedly hold down a whole cap point by yourself.
I feel like this would also apply to the M3A3 Bradley (and all the other IFVs) as well, though I haven't played it so that's just an assumption.
Its not the size that counts, its the motion of the ocean. I went through all BMPs before they added the BTR-80 to the game, I recently unlocked it and have been working on Acing it. I have no problem bringing my 7.3 into 10.7 uptiers. The 30mm cannon is actually more useful at uptiers because with downtiers you face more opponents with extremely thick armor. I also like to bring along my Zis-30 because the 57mm cannon is actually viable against IFVs and I even took out an STRV 121 using it once.
BMP-2M is utterly monstrous for its BR, it deserves to be nowhere close to the current BR it's at. It was honestly fine just being at 9.3, even 9.0. 7.7 tanks have no chance against those ATGMs, ERA is useless against it which is common at 8.3+ and even some top tier MBTs stand no chance when they get hit by one of those missiles. That is an IFV that in my opinion needs to go back up.
if they moved the m3a3 up they also need to move up the bmp2m since they are both good in their own ways and should be at a higher br
Bradley A3 to 9.3 and BMP-2M to 9.0 would be great but chances are only the Bradley will get uptiered due to stats
Yes because BMP-2M DEFINITELY has top-down ATGMs, it's DEFINITELY not broken in terms of controls and Kornets are OP as fuck (ffs I remember two fucking Kornets hitting BMP-2 turret without overpressure).
@@beatricevonkircheisen5300 Poorly aimed shots is not really the vehicle's problem its the players problem. I noticed the average Bradley player using 2 to 3 TOW-2B's to kill one tank. That doesn't make the Bradley A3 a bad vehicle it's just that the user doesn't know how to use it properly. And overpressure is pretty wonky for most types of shells save for HE at this time.
As an Italian main, I haven't had the opportunity to use any of these IFVs, but Gaijin has now confirmed that the Dardo IFV is on the way. Since the Dardo uses Spike-LR missiles, I doubt we'll get the full power of the thing, rather one that uses TOWs or MILANs instead. Hell, maybe just one without missiles at all. I imagine it'll go in at 8.7 or 9.0 if it gets missiles, but it could be even lower if Gaijin feels particularly weird that day. Honestly, I can't wait to finally get my hands on an actual IFV for Italy instead of a slightly armored box with a TOW and 50 cal, but I understand that this is definitely an issue which requires a lot more than Gaijin is willing to do.
the various dardo prototypes with 60mm guns will likely be in the 8.0 (plus minus) region
@@matthiuskoenig3378 I would love to see the 60mm one at 8.0. We already have the AUBL with it, so it'd fit there perfectly.
It's a sales tactic. Flavour of the month balancing.
-> Release new overpowered vehicle.
-> Ignore complaints while sales skyrocket.
-> Rebalance vehicle when sales die down.
-> Repeat.
World of Tanks has been doing this for years, and it works. Players willingly flock to overpowered vehicles and will spend money to enjoy them for as long as possible. A few months go by, and a new more powerful vehicle is released. The cycle repeats.
That BMP-2M case represents perfectly how Gaijin works. If many people buy it, it has to be overperforming.
Just a thing regarding BR compression. The reason gaijin doesn't want longer queue times, is because, overall, the rate at which we acquire rp and silver lions per hour would drop considerably. If something like hat would've happen, costs in both rp and sl would also to be balanced and obviously, gaijin doesn't want any of that.
War Thunders IFV problem is that Gaijin to this day refuses to add a Marder 1 while adding at this point 4 or more marder chasiss based vehicles.
And yeah the Type 89 kinda spanks, the thing really has to go up. Same for the M3A3, it's pretty ridiculous.
User Feedback would lead to people loudly proclaiming their favorite vehicles aren't overpowered, while claiming every counter to that vehicle is.
"The Bill is a worse m3a3 at a full BR bracket higher."
Thank you, I have said this so many times but for some reason people still disagree.
Freeaboos*
Finally Spookston made a video about the IFV problem.
Japan deserves under BR'ed IFV's for the amount of suffering they have with their lineups
i actually agree with that one...also is it me or are japans vehicles so fucking expensive?!
@@chechenfeels The R2Y2 cost more stock then a almost spaded J7W1.
The Ho-ri Production costs 17k stock.
The Ki-84 at 6.3 costs 18k stock just because it has 30mm.
The Zero at 3.7 costs 10k now.
The new Zero that got all the hype was already behind a paywall of 18k before anyone played it.
Yeah, I think they actually hate us.
@@snazzydazzy ye i spaded the A6m Hei and it costs like 23k to repair so eh
I think these are some of the same issues that light tanks face, as a fair few are undertiered due to people not knowing how to use their mobility, scouting, etc. Now most are balanced like glass cannons.
Another issue in regards to IFVs is some nations have one while others don't.
in my opinion ifvs are not supposed to be played aggressively. when i play ifvs, i usually, or nearly always stick to being support. usually slightly behind the main group, helping repair, drone scout, and prevent enemy tanks from flanking whatever few tanks i'm behind at that moment.
IFVs are so good like the M2/M3 bradleys that in the 1991 Persian Gulf war, they took out far more tanks than the M1A1 Abrams and M60A1(AOS) did.
When they add infantry this will all be sorted out.
Queue times at mid tier are still almost instant, I dont see any problem waiting "twice as long" when that'd probably just mean 20 seconds.