Why there's no Bristol Central Station: the failed Victorian schemes to replace Temple Meads
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
- A look at the four schemes in the 1860s to replace or supplement Bristol Temple Meads with a more centrally located station.
Errata (sorry!): I made some mistakes so I made a corrections video. Please see here: • Erroneous nonsense in ...
0:00 The origins of Temple Meads
1:58 Railways arrive in Bristol
3:23 Shortcomings of Temple Meads
4:46 Proposed Bristol & Clifton Railway (1862)
6:34 Proposed Bristol Central Railway Station (1862)
8:12 Proposed Bristol Port Extension Railway (1863)
9:26 Proposed Bristol Central Railway Station (1863)
11:16 Workarounds: Joint Station, Victoria Street and trams
12:57 Cities grow around stations
Sources, credits, transcript: pedestriandiversions.github.i...
Very interesting. I was vaguely aware that there were some schemes but I'd never seen them mapped out like this. Slightly surprised that one of them had the backing of the Merchant Venturers but didn't get built.
The line you drew on your maps for the Bristol & Gloucester is the current route to Gloucester via Filton, while the B&G actually followed the route out to Mangotsfield that is now the cycle path, but I suppose that's another complication that this video didn't need.
Yes lets go with "an unnecessary complication I was smoothing over", that sounds much better than "inadequate research, I made a lazy assumption" haha. Thanks for the correction!
By gosh, I just _love_ lifted tram tracks, demolished railways and evermore tarmac abominatio- I mean lovely motorways! Great video
Hanging out for the Knights Templar video now
Good to see those maps showing the horrendous traffic situation in Bristol 🤣
Congestion cental. And no congestion charge will change it.
In Brussels they didn't make such a fuss about property destruction when they wanted to connect the north an south terminals.
They drew an almost straight (and rather wide) line between the 2 stations through the city centre of Brussels and took down each and every building on that line to build a tunnel with a central station and 2 smaller stations, most of it underground. Whole neighbourhoods were destroyed. In the end it took about 50 years to complete.
Now they are complaining the tunnel is no longer wide enough with its bottleneck of 6 tracks.
Bromsgrove, my town, has a station 1 mile out of town. My forebears would not allow the soot, steam and noise to pollute the town centre.
They built a road, imaginatively named New Road, from the High Street directly to the station. The town centre remained stubbornly where it was. Sums up my town.....
Fun fact, a Tudor coach house was demolished to make way for New Road but it was rebuilt at right angles to the new highway, and it remains there today, confusing students of architecture and history.
that is a brilliant story about the coach house. I wonder... **looks up trains to Bromsgrove**
Yes, station to town centre is a good half hour walk plus the time it takes to cross the A38.
Sometimes it takes a video like this to make you stop and realise! I've worked in the "centre" as you call it for 3 years, and took the walk from the station with enjoyment - until now, I never considered just how unusually not-central it is placed. So a big thanks!
It’s not that unusual. Cambridge is far worse for centrality. I used to live near Hemel Hempstead and it’s station is much further out as is Tring further up that line. Then of course almost all of London’s mainline stations are nowhere near the middle.
Likewise, I’ve was born and raised and it never even occurred to me!
Its name is a shortened version of "Tramway Centre". It used to be the main hub of Bristol's tram network.
Temple Meads was and still is 1 of my favourite stations, vautled glass roofs, foot bridges, under passes and that EFFIN brilliant buffet/ bar :)
Always fun to hear the ironic tone alongside the interesting history. Keep it going 😀
Love this! The absence of trams and Rees banging on about an underground vanity project is so frustrating.
Excellent video. I loved the shade thrown at the halfwitted metrobus system
It's nice seeing how Bristol is now. I used to live in Bath and would cycle to Bristol regularly. The places mentioned are quite distant memories here, but I knew a few of them.
I used to live in Bristol and cycled to Bath on occasion.
The rant at 12:13 had me keeling over laughing, great vid!
Thanks!
I've just discovered this channel soon after moving to Bristol. I am fascinated by this kind of history so it's perfect for helping me explore my new city!
I only moved here myself a few years ago, so these videos are more an output of my own exploring and discovering, not the product of some born-and-bred expert. I always fret they may be taken as the latter when they're seriously not (albeit the accent probably makes that pretty apparent to be fair). Maybe I should add a disclaimer to my end card
You missed the biggest proposal, the Bristol and London and South Western (Junction) railway proposed in 1882 by George White (Corris Railway, Bristol Tramways) which was backed financially by the LSWR and the Baring family. The route inside Bristol was very similar to the Bristol Central Railway Station but would have been the terminus of a completely new LSWR line from Grateley to Bristol via Radstock to compete with the GWR. It would have had a grand terminus opening up onto what became the Tramway Centre. It later got the backing of the Midland Railway which would have closed its own St Philips station and run through to the new terminus. The Bill was only narrowly defeated in the House of Commons in 1883.
well on the one hand, I feel embarrassed to have missed that, but on the other hand, I suppose it gives me something to make a follow-up, at least. thanks for adding it to the comments!
This video deserves far more views. I wonder weather a metro/underground might be built in the future to connect parts of Bristol together.
I only published it 8 hours ago and it's already got more views than most of my videos get in a year! It's actually scaring me a bit...
The council have recently commissioned some studies into an underground/metro system. I should probably do another video about that but I'm avoiding it because I find it a bit depressing (short version: I'd love to see one, but I'm severely sceptical anyone will come up with the money required, and even if they do I'll probably be dead by the time it opens)
@@PedestrianDiversions I doubt there will be an underground railway built that would serve the station, as I don't think the soil make-up there is suitable or, indeed, anywhere in the Avon basin really. However, I've never been able to understand why Bristol hasn't built a new tram network like most, if not all, the other major cities in the UK. No, they'd rather keep forcing people to drive cars into the city at 20mph, clogging up the roads and demanding huge amounts of space for car parking. The roads are flat enough for surface transport between Temple Meads and both Broadmead and the City Centre, and they could repurpose the dock railway corridor too, as you said. And what about the Midland Line out through Fishponds and Downend. They could create an Express Metro using that corridor, with fenced off track enabling them to keep the cycleway. It could be single track with passing loops where there is room. Anyway, another excellent video.
But it's not London. Birmingham and Manchester should have underground railways but the Westmonster corrupts would never allow it
@@simonuden8450 I only skimmed the council's bumph about the metro, but I think they did propose routes via temple meads. I think their idea is to tunnel extremely deep to get better geology, part of the reason it would be so expensive. there are also old coal mines etc to be wary of
@@Isochest Both Birmingham and Manchester had a good network of commuter lines running outwards from their centres and, indeed, more than one mainline station each. And, they both have good metro systems in place. If underground metro lines were possible there, I'm sure they would have had them long before the present incumbents of Parliament took their seats. Just look at Glasgow.
Happened on this in my suggestions feed and was not disappointed. Very well done.
It's interesting that I've been beginning preparations on this very subject for a presentation to my local model railway club on the "Might have beens" for replacing the cumbersome Temple Meads station. Talk about a coincidence! It was inspired by the very booklet used as a secondary source here. It's such a fascinating lens to view Bristol's railway history through and how the city might have otherwise developed had the revised Bristol Central Bill gone ahead.
Cheers
Yeah I found the booklet in a charity shop and immediately thought, flesh out with some maps and b-roll and this'll be a nice video. There's a PDF of it available freely online for anyone who wants to go straight to the source, I probably should've made that more obvious in the vid. Don't think I can link in comments but the link in the description should get people there
First video I've seen from this channel, it's great! Like a Jago Hazzard for Bristol
Just finished binging a catchup after getting this one in the algorithm. I'm an ex-Bristolian and have always wanted one of these kinds of channels for my home city. Love the detailed research and the dry humour. You should have no shame in setting up a Patreon! I'll chuck a pound your way and I'm sure plenty more would too :) Looking forward to the next one!
not detailed enough, see the comments correcting me on at least 3 f-ups! I havent bothered with a patreon but I recently turned on the youtube "superthanks" button if that helps.
As an ex Bristol resident (1979 to 2005), and who hasn't been back there since 2009 (I must correct that this year), I've been finding your videos entertaining, informative and even have generated a little bit of 'home sickness'. Thank you.
Where did you move to?
A rather good lecture, thank you. My wife and I were in the UK in 2011 and we wondered why Temple Mead was so far away from our accommodation.
Very interesting. Bristol's answer to Jago Hazzard...
I love Jago Hazzard's channel... but anyone expecting 3 videos a week from me is going to be severely disappointed...!
I was thinking that too.
@@PedestrianDiversions We can wait...
Incredibly fascinating. I’ve only been down Bristol a few times and didn’t realise how far Temple Meads is from the centre. I think it’s quite interesting how some cities in the U.K. managed to make a central through line station, like Birmingham and my native Leeds. Also the stories of those that didn’t such as Bradford and Manchester.
That would make a good series I think. Though I will be watching more of your channel, subscribed!
Interesting video, thanks. Spent a year commuting to Bristol in the 1980s from Cardiff, last of the corridor trains. Gave it up having spent 24hrs in Severn Tunnel over that year.
Wonderfully informative looking forward to watching the rest of your videos, keep it up!
Lived in Bristol during uni (just moved out) and am finding all the videos on this channel fascinating. Interesting content, well researched and presented and with just enough personality to keep viewers engaged. Glad the algorithm seems to have picked this video up, binging through the rest of your bristol videos now!
Looks like the algorithm has pushed you on this one! Really great to see, hope you keep going with the fantastic videos!!!
Yeah it took 15 hours for this to get more views than anything else got in 2 years. Mind boggling. I'm not planning to stop but I hope all the new subscribers from this video aren't too disappointed, because I don't intend to consistently churn out videos about unbuilt railways!
@Pedestrian Diversions I reckon people tuned in for the history but also because of how much of a mess Bristol is. That was my reasoning anyway. Although I did just finish watching a load of train derailment videos.
Excellent video.
that was really interesting! nice 👍
Fascinating stuff. And I love your style of delivery - it's riddled with deadpan cheekiness, inbetween the bouts of outright sarcasm :)
Interesting and well illustrated video. Thank you.
Thank you so much for all the maps!
Nottingham has a lovely tram system started partly through EU funding. Bristol's trams may not have survived the fuel and road lobby's post-war onslaught on electric traction, but a Luftwaffe raid destroyed the system and the supply cables, the last car running into the depot downhill without power.
Nottingham has a terrible tram system
We also used to have a tram system a long long time ago
When it is quicker to get the bus, your trans have failed
That’s like your mate asking for £20 then buying you a pint, keeping the change and you having to be grateful for the free drink…..
EU funding is our own money, laundered back to us
Superb, very well done. Thank you
so glad ive found a bristol urbanist channel, this is great!!
I visited Bristol, for the first time, in October 2022. I stayed for four nights at The Bristol and had a great time. Anyway, I walked to the hotel from the station and had been wondering why the station seemed so far away from the city centre. Then last week, this video appeared in my recommendations, so thank you very much for the explanation.
I recently moved into a place near St Lawrence station, so this video has been a fascinating ride into Bristol's history, Thanks!
amazing video! Great work!
I have relatives in Bristol and have travelled there and through it many times. This was very informative. And the laughs. Ticked that, too.
Facetious commentary made me smile. 😅
Enjoyed that, many thanks!
I live on the hill in the picture of the sheep, pre temple meads was drawn from!
Super cool to see that perspective, thanks very much.
Super interesting video thanks!!
Very interesting and informative.
This was a great video. Very interesting as someone who moved to Bristol for university. I would have loved to hear you talk about Bristol Parkway and where it fits into the timeline. I also wasn't aware of the tram argument which seems pretty pathetic. The temple quarter development should definitely make the station feel more central as you said though!
For someone who doesn’t usually pay attention to anything train related, this video was incredibly interesting and funny!
Excellent and informative. Regards from Australia.
Wow I've been watching all your videos, and it's refreshing to have an urbanist who didn't feature Toronto/New York in every video.
ha well I've never been to either. started making vids due to boredom in lockdowns so had no choice but to film locally. I must say I mostly gave up watching urbanist videos after the 20th one about how stroads and single-family zoning are bad, neither of which are really a thing in this country at all
good job they didnt build the station in the centre. they would never have had enough room for all the student housing.
hahaha
And your point is?
@@keithpanda that student housing is a racket
Solid argument here mate
Thank you very good video.
Great video, will be watching more from your channel for sure! I'd love to see a video about what should/could be realistically done to improve Bristol transport. So many things that get floated seem completely unrealistic and too far fetched for a city quite behind already.
I have thought a lot about doing something like that. I don't really want to turn into a guy who just rants about how the buses are bad and trains are good all the time though. I don't want to be a fount of toxic moaning without being slightly constructive, but I don't have any actual skills in transport planning, and honestly I struggle to think of anything that could be done that is both good enough to cheerlead, and realistic given the national govt etc. So, yeah, it's a tough one. I'm bound to come back to the transport issue sooner or later but we'll see in what form
@@PedestrianDiversions an honest reply, I really respect that! It is difficult and something that's important to weigh in mind. Think it comes through in this video that you're not just bashing but looking fairly at what was realistic and what could have been good.
Best use of sarcasm I have encountered in a long time.😆
Good job! Very interesting video, tinged with such sadness as so many historical video are when it comes to transit and related topics. Very good for your part though.
Fantastic video! I’ve recently moved to Bristol and i was always wondering why there was never a station close to the centre!
Another new sub escorted in here by the algorithm. Solid content, great to find. I presume you and Jago Hazzard will be providing holiday cover narrating each other’s videos?
Also I lived in Bristol for a couple of years, nice to see the old stomping grounds!
welcome along. I fear a lot of these new subs are going to be disappointed when my next umpteen videos are of no interest to anybody outside the local area and feature no trains or railways, but we'll see
Another great video, thank you. Rather sharper tone, I thought. But understable
really informative thanks
It is a shame that you missed off all the other failures of Bristol transport and development, but would make a good several hundred video series, the cretinous short-sighted vanity projects of the Bristol leadership. As someone who lives in filton cannot get a tram, even though they built them in spitting distance of my house, to the centre can get a train to temple meads and has to walk to parkway because most of the bus routes do not go near it. Will have the world class NOT IN Bristol arena, near my house yet with a train station that will open 3 years later and no parking provision of buses. I feel like this video captured the pain in my soul
Thanks for this video. V interesting
Cool video 😎
Really excellent videos my dude! Also a Bristol local. Would absolutely love if you could do a history of the tram network in Bristol and thje various failed proposals and compromises. Would love to offer some help if you need it! KEEP IT UP!
another topic thats been on my list since the start but never got round to. I think I am slightly put off by the fact that, as this video illustrated, when it comes to things with rails there is ALWAYS someone who knows the topic absolutely inside out and would catch me making a load of mistakes hehe
Just found this video recommended and Ive sub'd !
The demolition of the Bristol Harbour Railway and the Midland and the GWR route to Radstock via Pensford sums up perfectly what a joke of a place it is. I am born and bred Bristolian. It has been said many times Bristol City Council’s planning department caused more irreparable damage to the City than the Luftwaffe ever did. Bristol now has a majority Green representation, so it’s now totally fucked. Great video, thank you.
Really interesting 🤔
Looking at your footage, it never ceases to amaze me how higgledy-piggledy Bristol city centre looks. A Dali -esque mishmash of competing eras and styles mixed in with geometric concrete and brick-work and hideous road furniture. For all that, it’s a wonderful place!
Never did like the Temple Meads area much though, it being one of the ugliest parts of the city, for many decades a place with all the charm of a disused industrial estate.
I used to commute into Temple meads and the 15 minute walk from the station to my office wasn't too bad.
Yeah the location is not entirely disastrous, there's a decent amount of offices especially within 15 minutes, but if I worked at the university for example, it would be just far enough of a trek to make a train-based commute quite unnattractive
Nice vid.
The penultimate sarcasm was glorious
The 'Brandon Hill' station was going to serve the hotel, the facade of which remains at Brunel House, from which passengers could then take Brunel's steamers across the Atlantic.
ah, I don't think my source specified that, hence me vaguely filming the roundabout and thinking the location made no sense, but a steamship connection does actually kinda explain that. the trouble with getting literally 60 times more views than normal is that all these people pop up with corrections and omissions and info that I should and would have put in the video, like this, and I kinda wish there weren't tons of people seeing my mistake-riddled effort, although the paradox is I wouldn't have known about the mistakes if they hadnt. hehe. cheers for adding that info to the comments at least!
I thought Brunel's last stop before Ireland & America was the building now known as "The Royal Inn" in Portishead. I guess they would set off from central Bristol first, then down the river Avon
The series of astronomical fumbles by the various Councils of Bristol Past did make this video slightly depressing for me as a transit nerd Bristolian. I knew about our tram network being torn up and the Robert Moses-esque wrecking of the city with huge motorways, but god hearing it all in succession like that really fucked my brain. Great video though! Super informative & gave excellent context to some of the issues I have with the way Bristol is laid out. Maybe one day this MetroWest clown show will decide to actually build a light rail network rather than the raw (not even twice-hourly) suburb funnel it's currently shaping up to be. There's always hope!
As a Bristolian railwayman/engineer who now lives in NW Thatcham, look where THA station is located! Bloody useless 🙂
But thanks for putting this together. Subcribed.
You ought to get my brother started on the wanky Bristol bus lanes - best not as he lives there.
ah, the Nailsea school of station placement
@@PedestrianDiversions Not forgetting Backwell and their infamous tarts. It's just as bad as THA too and I'd never realised. Cheers!
fantastic vid. would have liked to have heard about the short lived tunnel under redcliffe hill!
Not so short lived, was used for about 90 years and is still there (albeit blocked up) I think! but don't quote me on that. will probably look at it eventually
Really good video, loved the end. It wasn’t mentioned but does the line through Redland and Clifton make any real difference? (It did for me when I lived on Chandos road but I suspect not many others)
Yeah didn't mention as I decided it wasn't relevant to the 'central intercity station' issue, did not want to overcomplicate and also good to leave myself scope to do a future video about that and/or other local area branch lines. I would tend to agree with you, I'm sure it's quite significant to many people who live next to it, but makes little difference to most other people, like tourists or people visiting on business, or even south bristolians. I used it once soon after I moved here, to go and look round Clifton, and realised I could have walked there quicker than it took me to walk to temple meads and then crawl around on that service (oh for electrification)
@@PedestrianDiversions - Despite living in Bristol for many years, I never used the branch line even once to get up to Clifton or Redland. Quite useful for Avonmouth & Shirehampton though. Would’ve been interesting to see how it tied in to the rest of the network.
great video, would love to hear your take on the Broadwalk development
I havent followed all that closely and it seems too legally serious to wade into flippantly, but what I've read certainly raised eyebrows
Excellent video. I rarely visit Bristol because its transport system is a nightmare, which shows very little sign of ending. I find it hard to believe that you still can't catch a train to Portishead, for example.
Portishead branch reopening does at least have planning consent now, but yeah, IMO it's completely laughable that it didnt reopen decades ago (or indeed never close). embarrassing even by british standards let alone international
The first station near me opened in 1825, so it took 14 years until a station was opened in Bristol . Imagine if mobile phones took 14 years to appear on the streets of Bristol.
Although I was born in Bristol my parents moved long before I was aware of anything beyond nappy changes so I don't know the city really apart from what I gleaned from the occasional visit, so these videos are thoroughly interesting. I now live near the city of Stuttgart in Germany where they have a similar problem with a terminus station, and are about to make it worse with an underground through station so Bristol isn't the only city to make mistakes with its public transport...
ah, Stuttgart 21... makes you wonder which is the worse fate for a city - doing basically nothing, or spending billions on mistakes and delays
@@PedestrianDiversions Exactly. And this for a station that won't be as good as the one it replaced.
But hey, the real estate developers will get some nice valuable land, and that's what matters...
I've just found your channel. I really enjoy the original enquiry driven by your own interest, the thorough research and the narrative contextualising the subject. I lived in Bristol for a while, some years ago. I was told that in the 60s (?) the city planners had a vision of a two-tier city centre, with walkways suspended above street level to separate traffic and pedestrians. I saw some possible evidence of this even circa 2000, but on recent visits I can't see it so much. Is there any truth to that environmental vision? I can see in your videos evidence of some seriously flawed development in the city in the 60's. I would love to see a video produced by you about the post-war vision and development of Bristol, particularly on any radical elements, good and (perhaps mainly?) bad, who drove the plans and all the interesting consequences. Thanks 👍
I think that's true, there is still a footbridge-to-nowhere from castle park over lower castle street which I think is one of the last remnants of it. I don't know much about it to be honest but it's a very good suggestion for future research!
@@PedestrianDiversions The highest concentration of it was at the North end of The Centre, on Lewins Meand and Rupert Street, which you can see evidenced by 1st floor walkways, most now closed up. The bridges are still there in 2008 google streetview. Two other big buildings on The Centre, the building formerly known as Colston House, and the old Bristol & West tower (now clad in a blue gradient) also had 1st floor pedestrian plazas. It made a small kind of sense, as the highwalks would have effectively spanned over the Frome valley, allowing level access from the old city to the other side of the Frome valley.
City Centres relocating to where the railway station is - yes, this is the common story. It's sort of hapening in Cambridge, too, also about 100 years later than it could have done!
funnily enough I went to Cambridge two weeks ago for the first time in 15-20 years, it was amazing to see how different it is when you step out the station. had a brief look at Eddington too
@@PedestrianDiversions When I lived in Cambridge, Eddington always gave me v weird vibez- IDK why so much of the ground is concreted. Me and my friends always used to call the sains there Minecraft Sainsbury's 🤣. I guess it's v similar to other large new Devs on the outskirts of towns/cities like the one in Swindon.
As a German visiting Bristol I did not find the location of Temple Meads particularly disadvantageous or remarkable. We have lots of similar stations (for example in Dresden where it is hard to define a city center in the first place). If anything, the problem seems to be that there is little public transport from the station to get passengers to their final destinations. I get that it would be a problem for cargo though.
Fascinating, thank you.
And up to date we now have HS2, which wont be going into central London, too expensive!
Fascinating.
And sad.
Good grief the list of failures relating to trams / rail connection is appalling, and the most recent collapse of the “metrobus” / harbour railway into the river is shocking.
Still, the otherwise moronic location of the new arena out at Filton (as opposed to right next to Temple Meads) might actual result in the Avonmouth line out of Parkway seeing passenger use, so there’s a benefit by accident.
It was very common, in the 19th century, to build railway stations some distance from town and city centres.
wow I never knew that Castle Park used to be developed. It'd be great to make a video on that one
yep got pummelled in WW2, flattened thereafter. it's been on my vague mental todo list since day 1 but somehow never got around to it yet
cheers x
good video
A good idea would be digging a tunel from temple meads or before that making a stop there and then connection the city centre like they did in Berlin with the Nord - Süd Tunnel, were you can get from Gesundbrunnen (Nord Kreuz) to Südkreuz.
I always wondered why I had to walk so far form the train to the bus station when I was a student... and too cheep to take the bus !
A underground system would be challengingly as when it leaves the centre of Bristol towards Clifton for example it would go from deep to get under the docks to extremely deep due to the height of Clifton.
I think we need to celebrate Temple Meads is so far out. The centre is one of the greatest places I have ever lived and enjoyed a night out in. You don't get half the louts geting off a train, getting hammered and then back on. Its too far for them to walk anywhere other than the Knights Templar, leaving the many world class establishments to the locals!
Thanks for the content! I blame brunel!
Although the “Brandon Hill” site would not have been a whole lot different to the position of St. David’s station in Exeter…
Hey ya I'm from Bristol great video
@6:44 No, between the floating harbour and Midland Road.
I like your final point on the future of Temple Meads.
At this point, the Temple Quay redevelopment has been going on for over 20 years. I believe the new university campus was due to already be open by now but is still just mud. Arena Island still feels very far away. But I walk along Silverthorne Lane and the Feeder Canal quite a lot so I do get the glimmer of change.
Which terminus was more inconvenient though - Temple Meads or Paddington, being nearly three miles from the measure point at Charing Cross and over 4 miles from the centre of the City of London?
I would say that Bristol Temple Meads Railway Station is known as Bristol Central Railway Station but it was chosen to remain as Bristol Temple Meads Railway Station and that’s what it will remain as forever. Hope this explains something about Bristol Temple Meads Railway Station
If they’d have kept the docks line that went under St Mary Redcliffe (granted tunnel is there) could have had so many more options..
I am sorry to say, as I am a local and used to go through Bristle on the train regularly, as well as doing other things in Bristol. The railway station is pretty much where you can plonk it. If you want to have a moan Bristol airport, or Lusgate as us locals call it is actually closer to Nailsea than it is Bristol.
so true