Bad Dialogue vs Good Dialogue ROUND 3 (Writing Advice)
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- čas přidán 20. 05. 2024
- Explore five new types of bad dialogue and learn how to fix them. Examples from Star Wars, Breaking Bad, Batman, Seinfeld, The Room, Troll 2, and more!
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0:00 Intro
0:25 Good Dialogue
1:24 Good Dialogue Example (Breaking Bad)
2:32 Bad Dialogue
2:45 Forced Comedy (Bathos)
5:18 Info Dump Dialogue
7:43 Cartoonishly Evil Dialogue
10:56 Jarring Change of Subject
13:38 Rushed Emotional Reactions
16:57 Outro
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Isn't the whole Marvel series an example of Bathos? They cannot go 5 seconds without making a joke in what are supposed to be intense battle scenes.
Yep, the MCU is addicted to Bathos
I actually covered Marvel's use of humor in a recent video on Lampshading: czcams.com/video/16Udx2D4NFY/video.html
I hate it when they do that. Like, they want me to care about a scene, but they add stupid jokes to it, so it all just ends up falling apart.
Indeed. The mcu snarky comedy was started by Tony Stark, because it fit his personality.
When others copy that it feels empty and uncharacteristic.
They saw how everyone liked the subversive joke about Hulk smashing Loki while he gave a serious speech, and they decided to do the same thing to every other serious moment ever until there were no serious moments left to even subvert.
They have successfully beaten the dead horse into bones, those bones into paste, used the paste to build another horse, beat that horse into nothingness, and are now swinging at thin air.
The Force Awakens scene could have accomplished the goal of showing Poe being calm and humorous under pressure by having the same dialogue with a stormtrooper, and then establish Kylo Ren as intimidating by having him take over the interrogation and Poe immediately going pale and dropping the humor.
Good work sir im impressed lol
That's a good idea bro
@@Jodus_MacGotuss if some simpeltons on the internet ncan figure this out then why could disney with 200 million behind it...its almost like they destroyed lucas legacy on purpose...or at least tried to
@@redsnorlax1945 bruh why would you call him a simpleton that's so rude lol
@@Jodus_MacGotuss i was also calling myself a simpelton i dont mean it offensivily just that we're not writers or actors maybe i should have said lamen something else lol
"Don't ask me about my business, Peach!" That's actually some of the best dialogue I've ever heard.
Michael Corleone got me! "It's-a me, Michael!"
Mario when the plumbing business hasn't been-a-doing all that good
"Luigi, you're my brother, and I love you. But don't ever take sides with anyone against the Family again."
@@atomicdancerreal slow clapping here, especially with the rise of The Spiky Dinosaur who kidnaps the Kngdom's Monarch within the fandom
In the Troll 2 scene, you have to be able to dig through the bad acting to find the bad writing.
Hahahah bring an extra shovel
Wait, that had writing?
That’s hilarious man, all I gotta say
Now that I think of it, where's the Troll 2 screenplay?
Oh my Gooooooooooood!
We all know The Room is absolutely terrible, but MAN that “I did not hit her!… Oh hi, Mark!” scene always cracks me up uncontrollably 😂
It's gold!
Unfortunately, picking on the bad dialogue in that movie is like shooting fish in a barrel because the acting is atrocious, too! It's so obvious from their body language that they aren't in character at all and are just trying to force it, especially the darker-haired guy. (I haven't seen it all the way through because the clips I've seen repeatedly on the internet make me think it wouldn't be worth it).
I did nawt
@@messinalyle4030 you should see it. It's so bad it's entertaining. The "darker-haired guy" is the director, Tommy Wiseau. He can't act at all. The blond guy is his friend, Greg Sestero. He does a competent job given how bad the material is. He actually wrote a book about the experience called The Disaster Artist. It's one of the funniest books I've read. Tommy Wiseau's incompetence and delusions of grandeur are unrivaled.
That is such a meme. :D
For me, the worst instance of forced comedy ever was the infamous “THEY FLY NOW?”
That was supposed to be funny?
That seems like humor written by an A.I.
In fact, I actually think that an A.I. could write funnier dialogue.
Especially bad since jetpacks are nothing new so characters being surprised makes no sense.
What movie was that line from?
@@crucaderd rise of skywalker i think.
I think Disney has done more to teach people about bad writing than anyone ever could. 🤣
I sceond that!
Lol true
Game of Thrones Season 8 has entered the chat.
@@bakasan0000 Shit man I didn't know you'd see this.. I apologize and take back what I said. You are the true destroyer. 👍
@@TheDeadCritic 🤴
I think the Kylo Ren scene could've been much more impactful with a small change: Po's joke being made to a ranking officer instead of Kylo Ren, with him appearing shortly afterwards. Po would still showcase that larger-than-life cocky charisma, and the ranking officer would appear weak instead of Kylo Ren.
Imagine if Kylo Ren comes in afterwards, and Po no longer feels comfortable being so flippant, or Kylo Ren silences the officer or Po in a way that displays power. If the character who is a smart-aleck shows fear or restraint in that moment, it gives an opportunity to express the weight the villain's presence carries.
"Villains should never see themselves as evil."
Big Jack Horner: *_Allow me to introduce myself._*
Hahah I need to see Puss in Boots. Heard many great things
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty if it helps, Jack is more of comic relief, as the Main antagonist is the wolf 😊
There are three antagonists. One has develooment, the other causes develooment, and the third is comic relief and to have someone for the audience to root against
I love pure evil villains. I am so sad that they are so rare these days.
If you're older, Emperor Zod from the Buzz Lightyear cartoon is also a stellar example of a megalomaniacal evil villain that enjoy being such. Goddamn was he a trip and a half
@@minhkhangtran6948 Zurg*
Zod is one of Superman's enemies
The Last Jedi vs Top Gun Maveric heroic sacrifice comparison was brilliant.
Thank you!
Not only was The Last Jedi dialog in that scene inappropriate for the moment, it was just plain stupid and inappropriate for any moment.
"Thats how we win. Not by fighting what we hate, but by saving what we love."
What does that even mean? We win WW2 by preventing our sons, brothers, fathers, and husbands from fighting the enemy? It is ridiculous woke logic.
@@aliensoup2420 Also she was herself fighting what she hated just a couple of hours earlier, tearing apart the “evil rich” in Canto Bight. Same for her sister at the start of the movie.
@@je-nas Rian Johnson was more interested in making flashy looking scenes and shots, then a competently written story that makes sense.
@@aliensoup2420 You must not like the ending of Return of the Jedi. Instead of Luke killing Vader, as he lays there helplessly, he throws away his weapon and says he will never turn to the dark side. All this happens while the rebellion is fighting for their lives to blow up the death star.
Instead of killing one of the worst bad guys in the galaxy, he takes a huge gamble in hoping that good prevails in the end. By your definition that is woke also. That scene in Return of the Jedi is better then The Last Jedi cause there is better writing and more of a moment where Luke stops and collects himself.
Both scenes would be considered woke by the likes of you.
That Breaking Bad episode ('4 Days Out') has so many great lines. "You said it yourself... A robot?!". "You made poison out of beans, yo". "Ahh... wire". "You bought a meth lab to an airport?". The chemistry between Walt and Jessie in a pressure cooker situation made it one of the funniest in the whole series.
4 days out is probably my favorite episode of the entire series
The 'chemistry' between them? I see what you did there.
@@JonBeowulf They were clearly both in their element. You could say their interactions were reactive.
I can remember all of the scenes where these lines are from.
@@notaulgoodman9732 "The buzzer didn't buzz!"
2:00 It's extremely subtle, but I also like how fast Walt's mood changes to genuine frustration and disappointment when Jesse doesn't deliver. That sort of impatience and intolerance is one of the things which later seriously spirals out of control.
Breaking Bad is full of subtext. It is delicious to watch more than once to catch it all.
Absolutely. Would love to rewatch the whole series sometime
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Show it to family or close friends. I do that to rewatch my favourite media
Gawd I'm on my 4th viewing. I can't get enough.
Rap lyrics also have this kind subtext called subliminal
@@gabrote42 I'm waiting until my boys are old enough.
The youngest is only 18 months.
I’m not even a writer but these are so entertaining
Thanks!
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty
Brandon, you seem to present these as hard and fast _donts_ of dialog writing. However, in the scenes you provided as examples, I don't think the issue lies inherently in *what* they do, but rather *how* they do it, which is very poorly.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty
Here are a few of the countless examples of bathos done right (imo):
*Casino Royale:* _Now the whole world gonna know that you died scratching my balls._
*Roadhouse:* _A Polar Bear Fell On Me._
*Red Dragon:* _Your hair is a train wreck._
*American History X* (deleted scene): _I have a great idea for a musical comedy._
- and many many more.
Breaking Bad is one of my favourite shows. Never a dull moment, even when nothing’s happening, because there’s always the silence that keeps you wondering what the characters are thinking.
Yeah, I was about to write the same. The conversations are always good, sometimes there are jokes but they never kill the whole situation. Imagine someone being a funny smartass at Tuco or Gus and they just accept it.
Absolutely love the show also because EVERYTHING comes back to bite these characters. The stakes are so so high even from the beginning (which makes it feel realistic) because you KNOW not a single thing is going to go unchecked. You just play the long game to see how long it takes until something comes back like a boomerang to the main characters. Can’t count how many times my mom & I said “That’s gonna come back and bite them in the ass…” and genuinely GOT ANGRY when a character screwed up because everything is set up to lead to something. So when nothing is happening, you think back to all the things they fuck up on and go… but how long until x thing comes back to bite? The stake were set up since episode 1 when they zoomed in on the gas mask and in episode 2 those two kids found it.
@@classicnatNY Yes, and it’s great when Crazy 8 has to die, but neither Walt nor Jessie are hardened enough to do it. Only when Walt understands that 8’s planning to murder him does he realise that he can never let him go, can’t let him live. The only way is to kill Crazy 8, and by doing THAT, he sets even more shit into motion, until everything spirals out of control.
@@henrikaugustsson4041 Absolutely completely totally agree. Both Walter’s & Jesse’s grief felt very realistic. I was genuinely heartbroken when Crazy 8 died. Such a heart-wrenching scene. I think before that I had hope that Walter would be able to get out and live a happy life with an unexpected friend (though honestly even I didn’t believe that, I just had gotten attached to both by that point. I’m not THAT ignorant.) or they would part ways, but when he died… I knew there was no chance of Walter escaping. He was in it for life. I also believe that was the beginning of his mental spiral. After that, you could see how he changed and decided to process his grief.
The Legolas and Gimli interactions during intense battles are a timeless example of how humor can be brought properly into heavy action scenes.
Them having a kill count contest works because it still is about the battle and doesn’t take your attention away from it and its tragedy. They go with it and find a way to remain optimistic. It’s just a few seconds of delight in a seemingly hopeless situation before diving right back into it and it works well
I don't think the LotR films have any examples of good dialogue. Lame dialogue, yes.
Completely agree
Don't think so, it pisses me off how urgent everything there was while they were counting their score. It's beyond stupid.
@@Juan-zl3fy Some of people that I know are in the battle against Russia. They were literally counting blown up tanks and having "fun" on battlefield just like Legolas and Gimli. People actually do that very often in wars, because that's one way to cope with the tragedy that is going on.
@@gooddeath3816 Good thing I've never watched their movie
I remember Top Gun Maverick in theater, when rooster said "you told me not to think" the whole audience giggled because, well, yeah, Maverick told him that earlier. A small touch of humour in the middle of a serious scene but it did not feel odd.
Yep, and it works because the tension is cooling down at that point
I noticed that a lot of these advice also apply to real life conversations. An awkward talk sounds like bad dialogue, but good conversations sound natural
Ironically a well written awkward talk dialogue can sound very natural and relatable, because real people do have incredibly awkward conversations. Especially when some embarrassing secret is exposed.
Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul has got to have one of the most writing in TV-Movie history. The character building, especially in Better Call Saul, is an absolute delight to appreciate.
The Wire is also a master class in good writing.
BCS is way overrated. First seasons were good, then it was waaayyy too drawn out and alright in the end.
@@davidporter671 I just finished BCS a week ago and then immediately watched BB and El Camino. BCS is arguably the best of the three shows. Jimmy's character arc from is incredible, and the ending was beautiful. But it's subjective and to each their own
Agreed. Throw Star Wars: Andor in that list as well. It's just as good as Breaking Bad or Better Call Saul or The Wire or The Sopranos which are all some of my faves.
@@benjaminroe311ifyyou kiddin right?
My mentor once said, "Film is a visual media. The best dialogue is no dialogue."
Yep, sometimes silence is better than words. Especially when the words suck
I think the best example of that is Hayden Christensen's Anakin. He's a good actor, don't get me wrong, but he (understandably) struggles with some of the dialogue tossed his way. And then you compare that to the scenes where he doesn't have to talk. So much better.
@@AnotherDuckhayden is a good actor tbh he just struggled a little bit with the dialogue, he was really good in the silent moments
Sometimes silence says more than words ever could.
That Rose moment is also incredibly ironic. She's telling him they win by saving what they love, not destroying what they hate. Meanwhile she stopped him from saving these people and cause he's grown to care about and value more than his own life.
And right after she says it, a huge explosion goes off in the background from the base that is now apparently doomed. I mean, that's a setup for a joke. Had it been a comedy, that would've worked, but it wasn't so didn't.
Also, uh, how do they get away from that situation? They're literally right in front of the enemy.
Moral of the scene: Be selfish, don't be selfless!
In the beginning of the movie a woman sacrifices herself to open the only remaining bomber's bay doors and manually releases the bombs. The woman is Rose's sister. But I guess f*** her sacrifice...
@@FurballGamerit's a character arc because Rose didn't wanna lose another person she loves duuuhhhhhhh did you even watch the moooooooovie?
Info dumping dialogue has got to be one of the most common problems.
Especially the "as you know" type dialogue. Or when certain characters describe other characters' personality traits directly to the audience rather than letting the audience see those traits for themselves.
Yeah, unfortunately it pops up a lot (especially in movies/TV) because it's the easiest way to get info across.
I recall a scene where one of the characters does an “as you know Bob” dump to another charcter in a pretty fast manner only to have the other character slam the brakes mid way through the dump. Their response was something like “no I don’t have any idea what you talking about”. Prompting the first character to awkwardly have to reexplain things but now unsure of what the other characters knew.
I actually thought it was effective because it was a bit comedic and got the info across. But also gave us some insight into the first character as being presumptuous and being very uncomfortable when they are uncertain about the thoughts and intentions of those around them.
I wish I could remember where I saw this, I think it was an old tv show, maybe British.
Marvels "the eternals" was 90% just exposition and info dumping. As soon as ey saw the epic wall of text that starts the movie I knew i was in for a nice "exposition ride". Nearly every conversation was just there to explain their backstory to the viewer.
That movie sucked hard...
He actually covered the "as you know" dialogue in the first video he made in this series.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Even good TV shows suffer from it, especially in the pilots. I often struggle to get through pilot episodes of shows because they're so clunkily written.
I still haven't recovered from watching that Rose scene in the theater. They genuinely convinced me Finn was going to sacrifice himself and I'm all like "Damn, okay let's see how this goes", and then the next scene happened. I swear I audibly groaned when I saw those two ships crash. (Also, Rose saved him from crashing into a cannon by... crashing into his ship. Do I even-?... No. I don't need to say anything else.)
Yep so dumb. There was a lot of dumb stuff in the sequels. But this is particularly dumb scene. I don't hate everything in those movies but they put so much unbelievable and lore manipulating stuff along with bad writing that I cringe watching them now.
Finn wanted to sacrifice himself to save everyone and Rose took that opportunity away from him and risked everyone else's lives, including her own. I think that's what everyone hated the most. The cringe speech she gives him afterward only made things worse.
@@Nopeasaurus Yeah she very well could've killed finn and herself. Maybe she was supposed to be a double agent, who had undying loyalty to the first order or something. Would've been way cooler than the terrible shit we got
@narc440 and they were totally exposed. The ATAT could have just shot them and then they would be dead for no reason.
Seriously, you need to do an entire episode of bad dialogue on The Last Jedi.
Haha it's a gold mine for sure
I think it’s dialogue is particularly bad because it doesn’t fit in the established universe of Star Wars and the rules we have come to expect it to operate in. In Knives out and Glass Onion, Rian Johnson uses similar writing techniques but it is much more successful in those films.
@TrainingBot113 like he said at the beginning its got to fit the character
guy whos basically an older teenager being awkward to their crush is extremely fitting
(specifically talking about the prequel series)
@@psitsnate954He's not a bad filmmaker, but totally wrong for Star Wars. He sees himself as an auteur too smart for a franchise, so wrecked it on purpose.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty And after that, one episode (or more, a series of episodes) about all the plot holes in TLJ and Rise of Palpatine.
When you got to the subject change one I was thinking “please don’t use the room, please don’t use the room…he used the room”
Hahaha!!
These are so fun to watch, it's impressive how you find scenes that are so similar in all kinds of ways, but with different execution
Thank you! The Seinfeld one actually came to me AFTER I recorded the audio... I was struggling to come up with a fitting counterpoint to The Room, and Seinfeld didn't click till the last minute
Also what’s great about the Vader interrogation/choke dialog: he proves his intelligence by deducting that it can’t be a councellors ship because there’s no ambassitor. Also that he’s got some serious muscles
He’s more machine than man.
I legitimately laughed out loud in the theater in the scene of Rose and Finn because the next scene is the door protecting their friends getting blown open and now risking them all dying. Comedic gold
Genuinely an amazing moment for how funny it is. The CG artists must have done that on purpose.
That scene in Top Gun: Maverick was by far my favorite scene, especially for the lines of "What were you thinking?!" & "You told me NOT to think!" It was a very well written scene.
The last 30-40 minutes of that movie are incredible. I was never a big fan of the original Top Gun, but the sequel had me gripped
Sounds familiar.
Agreed. The whole movie was surprisingly good. That scene was perfect because it also brought to bear all the tension between the two up to that point.
Every time I think of good dialogue, I think of the first season of True Detective . That season was on point.
That “ohhh wire” bit from Breaking Bad is one of my all-time favorite lines from the show 😂😂
It's a classic!
11:46 So THAT'S where that line is from! I honestly wish it was intentional to greet the guy so casually directly after he's talking about something serious, 'cause that's hilarious.
I think a good example of using “humor” in an intense situation would be Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: The Movie. Leonardo, the protagonist, often jokes around in intense situations, but those “jokes” are just him trying to hide his anxieties. He jokes because he wants to look confident and capable to his brothers, when deep down inside he feels insecure and worthless. You can see that whenever Leo is in a battle by himself, where he’s more sincere, compared to when he’s not alone and feels the need to prove himself. So yeah, most of those jokes lighten the tone, but they have a deeper meaning that feels natural for that character.
Haven't seen that one, but it kinda reminds me of how John McClane talks to himself during intense situations during the Die Hard movies
I think there are situations where villains can see themselves as evil, but it's fairly rare and needs to be executed incredibly well to work (as anything other than comedy).
Yeah, Dr. Evil from Austin Powers comes to mind, but that's comedy/satire
I think it generally only works in a relative sense - such as someone not understanding or believing in the concepts of objective morality, or "survival of the fittest" mentality that allows for any action provided you can accomplish it.
Some people may even see themselves as a necessarily evil; where they realize they are purely evil but justify it as a function of nature or a higher power.
The Joker is often considered to be a great antagonist, and he doesn't seem to have any motivations even he himself sees as noble - with it commonly being chaos for it's own sake.
Beyond that it's more difficult to find great success as a purely evil villain - if you can't justify your cause you'll have a harder time gaining followers.
I think unlike heroes, villains need to be logical in their actions. Even if from the viewer’s or other characters’ perspectives the villain seems illogical, it has to make sense from the villain’s angle. A good guy can do something moral with the only justification being “it’s the right thing to do”. A bad guy needs some kind of purpose for their actions. They can fully recognize that their actions are immoral, and can even enjoy doing awful things, however a villain should be able to explain why they did these things in a more substantial way than just “cuz I wanted to” “it’s just the wrong thing to do”
The Lich from Adventure Time sees himself as evil and he works pretty well.
Come to think of it, most successful "self-aware villains" are in probably horror films. People/beings who are embodiments of evil and delight in causing harm.
That and evil forces who oppose good specifically because they find evil a preferable side in the general fight between good/evil, light/dark, heaven/hell, etc.
An even better juxtaposition of the Poe v. Ren scene would’ve been the reaction of Solo when he encountered Vader in Cloud City. Solo used humor similarly to Poe under general circumstances. But, when he encountered Vader - no dialogue, just Action.
For the "good" forced comedy we also have Spiderman's 1 liners during his fights. That's completely believable because anyone that knows who Spiderman is will recognize that style of humor immediately.
As a Mark I disagree. "Oh Hi Mark" is cinema gold.
I never thought of that scene in Breaking Bad to be father & son, but the minute you said that it clicked. Thanks mate this channel is totally underrated.
Thanks!
It's not just father and son IMO - it's father and the substitute son who he wouldn't have chosen for himself, instead of the family that he loves and cares for, but has pushed away.
I took it as Walt trying again to teach Jesse, to succeed in a teacher-student relationship where he had previously failed. It's humourous because the failure is reinforced, no redemption and obvious frustration on Walt's part. It's too early in the story for father-son undertones, neither character is there yet, not even subconsciously.
I saw it more as teacher to student, which Pinkman had been, back in the day. It was probably a re-hash of a test he'd previously failed. So I'd say "White acting paternal" instead of "White wanting to father."
I'm very impressed with how seriously you analysed The Room.
You've managed to put into words so concisely and with examples what most people instinctively feel when it comes to good vs bad dialogue. Thanks for the analysis
Thanks for watching!
This is exactly how I feel when I see bad dialog. I just cringe. It’s like, whyyyyyyyyyyyy!
Taking a moment to appreciate Uma Thurman just having the time of her life in Batman & Robin. She's straight out of the 60s show and she carries the whole movie. Her delivery makes the dialogue 8x better.
"Batman DEACTIVATED her" cracks me up every time. It's hilarious how Uma and Arnold are having a blast while Clooney is screaming internally the whole time
I dunno, that sounds pretty revisionist. I mean, I dunno. Man that movie sucked.
Its funny because despite the puns Mr. Freeze was the only character I kind of felt for it shows what a trainwreck it is when Arnold Schwarzenegger is the best dramatic actor in it. Although I actually think Arnold is a better actor tham people give him credit foe being.
I like listening to these a day after writing some dialogue so I can reflect on what I wrote. I always find something that just feels off. I appreciate the effort you put into these.
You got it! Thanks for watching
I hear you for sure, the same thing happens to me. Here's a Hemingway quote: “The most essential gift for a good writer is a built-in, shock-proof, shit-detector.”
I just became a published author with my first ever book... I wish that I founded your channel earlier. However, it's really encouraging to find that your positive points on dialogue coincides with the dialogue I've written. It reminds me that I'm on the right track, even if I'm a novice.
Thanks.
Congrats on your book! And glad to hear you’re finding the channel helpful
What's the book called
Other good examples of "evil" dialogue:
Gus' "a man provides" speech to Walt in Breaking Bad.
Lady Macbeth's "then you were a man" speech in Macbeth, which possibly influenced Gus' speech.
Palpantine's "Darth Plageuis" story to Anakin from Revenge of the Sith, which is just about the only dialogue with subtext in the prequels.
Great stuff! If there’s a part 4 planned, I’d love to see examples of bad dialogue from otherwise decent movies with good actors. Those are harder to detect!
I'll keep that in mind for next time--thanks!
+1
I immediately thought of Independence Day. Overall it's an excellent movie with a great cast and really good dialogue (I particularly love the conversations between Jeff Goldblum and his dad). But which also includes this gem and several more like it:
"I'm a pilot. I belong in the air."
Your Good Vs Bad videos are your best ones!
Thanks! Had a lot of fun making them
I think a great example of good info-dumping is Cap2: Winter Soldier. The Arnim Zola info dump is informative, interesting, interactive and purposeful. He's stalling to kill them, he's not interested in entertaining them - but the audience remains entertained nonetheless.
When you mentioned jarring change of topic, I too thought of the Room, but the part I thought of was when Lisa is talking to her mother about Johnny, and her mother shrugs it off and then launches into "anyway, I definitely have breast cancer" which also works with inappropriate emotion since she says it so conversationally, like oh well, my favourite team lost at sportsball this weekend, guess I owe someone a buck. Truly that movie is a masterclass in what not to do lol
"dont ask me about my business peach" 💀 after he wacks a couple of goumbas
Hahaha!
Sometimes the same dialogue can be made good or bad in the hands of whichever actor has it. For example, Jaws. Anybody else with that long of a monologue describing the Indianapolis would have lost the audience. Instead, Robert Shaw pulled us all in to a whole shark attack that wasn't even shown on screen. It was like we got a bonus macabre shark attack scene. When I was 10, it riveted me to the point where I had to go and find a non fiction book on the USS Indianapolis, which I read and realized that Shaw used that account to inform his performance, right down to the friend bobbing in the water, bitten in half. If you ever want to find out just how masterful Shaw was (and he tweaked that dialogue with his own writing skill too because Gottlieb says they were having all kinds of problems with it), read the real account of the Indianapolis.
Robert Shaw makes you feel like you were right there with him, and you suddenly understand this crazy, Captain Ahab character and that the shark is his Moby Dick. If that monologue had been in the hands of a lesser actor, it would not have worked... but every time I see that scene, I still come away feeling very satisfied.
Great point. And Quint's monologue is incredible because of the details he provides and the actor's touch
robert shaw wrote that monologue himself the night before they shot it!
Part of why it works so well is that it's not story information, or at least not obviously. We understand later when Quint smashes the radio just how personal the conflict is to him, but he's not gushing some story that will later be key in defeating the shark. Another great thing about that scene that I've never heard discussed is that when Quint and Hooper are bonding over their scars, we see Brody lift his shirt to reveal what looks to be a scar from a gunshot, which he then decides not to talk about, and we then understand why he left New York for a place like Amity.
Jaws is a very special film and while its mostly thought of as a horror/thriller it touches all sorts of genres and does them well family drama, action, historical flashback and is very very funny its kind of a perfect movie.
Definitely. Great dialogue is most often a synthesis of great writing and great acting.
I would like to press you on one small nugget here; "villains should never see themselves as evil." I think 9/10 this is absolutely sound advice. But every now and then, it can delightful to see a villain who has self-awareness and truly just relishes in causing misery, not necessarily because they in themselves are compelling but what they force out of other characters in response is. I think a decent example of this (at times) is Angelus from the Buffy/Angel series. He's under no illusions of his place in the right/wrong balance. He's there to be cartoony evil and just fucking pull apart the heroes emotionally and devastate. And I think it works (again, at times)
Also, Megamind. Megamind acts evil because he feels it's the only thing society will let him do, until spending time and connecting with Roxanne helps him start to turn things around.
I would argue that there are examples of villains being very over-the-top and blatantly evil that work well,
the one that came to mind for me is Doofenshmirtz,
obviously its a children's show, but i still think it's a fair example of a character displaying these traits that still works well for the story and the character.
Breaking Bad is perfect full stop but I'm so glad you chose this clip, I love the relationship between Walt and Jesse and their individual "smarts" and this exchange for me sums it up to a tee. Keep this excellent content coming your channel is blowing up!
Thank you! And I actually wanted to include the "I fucked Ted" scene for #4's good example, but it didn't sync up with The Room example as much as I wanted
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty LOL!
Yes. So many good things in this one small interaction alone. You see Walt’s elation at having a kind of fatherly, teacher-pupil moment immediately dashed. It also sets up how tragic Walt’s eventual abuse of Jesse is because of how their relationship could have been so much warmer if Walt wasn’t such a prick.
@@Csizzorhandz Spot on, I also think that in a show with so much tension and drama they can pull off all this and still have an element of comedy in there. There are a few examples of this but the "Ah, wire!" and Walt's reaction are priceless, as is the moment later in the series where Mike and Walt are arguing and Jesse is just sat there saying "What about a magnet?"
When Mike comes into the picture we really get to see that Jesse is valued beyond just street smarts, and it was actually Walt all along who was being abusive towards Jesse.
As soon as you said 'sudden change of tone or unnatural change of subject' I knew you were going to show that scene from The Room haha
Haha it's the gold standard of unnatural
That scene in Last Jedi when Luke keeps asking Rey “why are you here?” That discussion goes on for like 5 minutes. 5 minutes of Luke asking the same question over & over
And rey not answering him for NO reason.
I think The Last jedi is nothing but bad dialogue lmao
Good examples of dialogue is littered throughout the Office. There is so much believable dialogue and great character attention which runs through the vast majority of that show. Bad dialogue, as someone else said, can be found in the vast majority of Marvel movies where it’s all quips and disposable CGI villains with no consequences. The best of those movies, in terms of tension for me, are the Winter Soldier and Zemo in Civil War who is fantastic.
Great videos
Thanks! And it's been a while since I watched Winter Solider, but I remember that one being more sincere than most MCU movies. Probably why I loved Winter Soldier so much.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty You should rewatch! I've watched it so many times - honestly, to me Alexander Pierce (played with consummate skill by Robert Redford) is scarier to me than any of their CGI villains, because he's so real. It's a shame they undercut it in Age of Ultron, where HYDRA became almost a joke, because that idea, of HYDRA being everywhere, hidden in plain sight, was the scariest of all.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty I also remember Infinity War being more sincere than most MCU movies as well. Not nearly as much quipping given that the threat is much more serious. Should've aimed for the head.
I watched Maverick for the third time yesterday. I think Rooster's shrug after saying "you told me not to think, remember" to lower tension naturally helps the scene too.
Yeah, it's a great progression from heated to peaceful
You poor soul, you forced yourself to watch that garbage 3 times?
I just can't for the life of me give a shit about the new one
The Penguin and Catwoman in "Batman Returns" also had good villain dialog going.
5:50 I feel like the bigger problem here is the bad acting. The second sentence sounds perfectly fine, but it's delivered horrendously, just like the other ones. As far as writing, the other sentences only require a few tweaks in wording, I think.
Love this series, Brandon! That Troll 2 dialogue is pretty funny. I interpreted it as intentionally bad since she turns away from him and breaks the fourth wall by spiking the camera pretty hard while delivering that last line.
Thanks! And yeah, Troll 2 is hilarious. Definitely watch it the next time you're in the mood for something charmingly bad
9:17 That’s not always the case though. People are pointing a lot to Jack Horner from Puss in boots 2 for a great example of a cartoonishly evil villain. (Mainly because he’s been the only exceptional one people have known about for the past few decades.)
He doesn’t see himself as the hero when he says all these cartoonishly evil things. In fact he doesn’t see himself as the villain either. He just simply doesn’t care because he’s purely selfish.
I need to see Puss in Boots. Heard a lot of great things
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty It's almost as great as Shrek 2, and only by bare margins. Amazing
This side-by-side comparison format is awesome. The practical examples are extremely useful, and are something that most do's/dont's videos lack. The extra effort you put into gathering those examples really pays off.
Did no one notice at the second clip in the first seconds of the video when Brandon says "tear apart" he shows the scene from The Room where Johnny says "you are tearing me apart Lisa"? It was genius!
Edit: IT KINDA HAPPENED AT 11:32 TOO hahahaha I love this channel!
As an added bonus to Vader interrogating Captain Antilles, Rogue One established that Vader literally watched the _Tantive IV_ escape with the plans, so that also further justifies his anger as he kills Captain Antilles for trying to lie.
Didn't even think of that--great point.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty That's an aspect of hindsight. Rogue One was written 40 years after Star Wars, and by a different set of writers. Lucas would have had a simpler reason for the scene playing out as it did, as you pointed to. With Rogue One, the writers were intent on dovetailing the end of their film with the start of the franchise.
Lore-wise, it makes for a nice piece of motivation. Writing wise it's irrelevant, at best., for the scene in question.
True, the scene does stand on its own as an effective character introduction for Vader. Rogue One gives added depth and context to the motivations for the characters, making it a worthy addition to the canon (as well as the only good movie to come out of Disney-era Star Wars so far). But it's not necessary to understand and appreciate Vader's actions in A New Hope; they speak for themselves, and would have been diminished by even the best of jokes.
That's one reason I actually don't care for that movie...it's doesn't mesh with A New Hope well at all. We were originally told that "several transmissions were beamed to this ship by rebel spies," as opposed to "I chased rebel spies right to the door of this very ship where they hand-delivered the plans." It has the effect of making Leia seem outright stupid to try and bluff Vader with the "diplomatic mission" excuse when he's been pursuing them from the battle site all along; that, or she thinks Vader is stupid, and neither character is supposed to be. They could simply have transmitted the plans to her ship when it became clear that the battle was going poorly and they couldn't escape with them, which would've been much more in line to what the original film indicated.
@Corn Pone Flicks
It actually works quite well, considering the _Tantive IV_ was docked inside another ship. Naturally, the Star Destroyer in pursuit would assume the plans were beamed directly aboard since Vader wouldn't necessarily have to tell the bridge crew anything.
The moment you described what Bathos was, I immediately hit cmd+F and searched the comments for "Marvel." Glad I wasn't the only one thinking it.
Yeah, Marvel is the low-hanging fruit when it comes to Bathos examples
0:56 This has some Meme Potential
The "I did not hit here" scene has great dialogue for a comedy.🤣
Another great example of a twist on bathos is Yang in "RWBY." She often cracks jokes in a tough situation, but later on, when Ren starts to develop empathic powers, the next time Yang cracks a joke, Ren tells her, "It's okay to be scared, you don't have to cover it up with a joke," and immediately, the bathos gets reversed, and we get more insight into Yang's personality.
I actually liked Rose's line from Th Last Jedi, but you're right. She should have yelled it. We all would have in the same situation.
That's the thought I had, her telling it back at him would have been great.. Maybe she could have gotten quiet when she said saving what we love like whoops I basically just confessed my feelings!
I would completely change what she says. She should've been hysterical and crying about how she can't lose Finn the same way she lost her sister. Implicitly confess her feelings and show them.
@@mathiasrryba YEP....
One of my favorite "jarring change of subject" scenes played for comedic effect is in season 8 of Friends. In the episode The Rumor, with Brad Pitt guest starring, Brad's character makes a self-deprecating comment about how he and Ross were so lame back in high school, how into dinosaurs they were. Ross awkwardly laughs. Then Brad asks Ross (Ross the paleontologist who is still super into dinosaurs) what he's doing for work these days and Ross replies cheerfully, "so how long are you in town?"
Team America has some of the best dialogue I've ever heard, highly recomended. not only does it work well as its own story, but they manage to lampoon so many writing and movie tropes at the same time, it becomes self aware. One of my favs is when they start having a heart to heart during the final battle.
You're right, the bad guy thinks THEY're the good guy. I've noticed in well-written movies there's a moment when the main character and we the audience are almost seduced into accepting the bad guy's point of view. But then they snap out of it and reject it. In the Red Dragon film the detective shatters Hannibal's speech by simply stating, "I had one advantage over you... You're insane."
Yep, and great example!
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Actually the lines were, "How DID you catch me?" "You had... disadvantages.""What disadvantages?""You're insane." It's funny, in the subsequent two films with Anthony Hopkins he didn't seem as scary, almost a parody of himself.
Thank you Brandon! Most stories have either bad dialogue or not bad dialogue. Good dialogue is a rarity. The examples that you list as good just don't have any of the errors of the bad ones. But they have nothing beyond that. An example of good is Collateral, where dialogue isn't just error-free, but adds a lot to the story. To see this, change Collateral’s dialogue with any other action story’s that has “not bad” dialogue. Most of the appeal of the story will be lost. Another example is Game of Thrones, e.g. Varys and Baelish.
Yeah, when I think of "Good Dialogue" I think of effective dialogue. GREAT dialogue is another subject entirely.
And I need to rewatch Collateral. It's been too long.
Collateral is great
Ik it's about dialogue but that scene with the joker having the gun to his head is so well done, not only for the dialogue, but also the fact that the joker was holding the hammer on the pistol so that even if Harvey decided to pull the trigger, he'd be able to stop it from firing, giving him the illusion of free will
Your admonition of message over moment is spot on. For the message to be hear, the story must be told. You gotta' weave it in dramatically, not narratively.
I liked the Kylo/Poe scene. I got the impression from the acting that Poe was wise cracking in order to hide his fear, a variant on the "laugh or cry" defense that some of us use. Kylo, on the other hand, was a weak character trying to play a strong man.
But that subtext of fear is never cashed in on. Rather than somewhat subverting the "bathos" in the scene by making the character pay for their insolence, in the same way Vader did, he continues with plot armor and no consequence other than moving the checker pieces of the plot moving forward.
If his "do you talk or do I talk" comment was followed with Kylo continuing to stare at him for a period of time before he challenges Poe's fears, this can indicate that the villain takes their time to study their enemy and can read what they wish to hide. So what are Poe's fears? Is it to be tortured? Severely injured? Killed? Betray those close to him? Have someone or something he holds dear be destroyed? Whatever that is have it presented in that scene before taking it away. Giving Poe something to lose not only continues to raise the stakes and show rather than tell Kylo is a badass, but demonstrates that fear is his weapon. Everyone has fear and he uses that fear to dominate others.
While you typically don't want to give something immediately before taking it away, since this an opening scene it can be given a pass if this is used as a motivation for Poe moving forward as not just him trying to be a "good guy", but he has a personal vendetta against Ren. This would help explain all the crazy shit Poe does throughout the ST because he is struggling with wanting revenge and doing his duty.
Additionally by showing Kylo's cold calculated exterior with the mask on the later emotional outburst of smashing his mask in the 2nd movie has much more weight. This can further be reinforced by removing him going apeshit on the console with his lightsabre as it just reinforces that he is weak compared to Vader. When instead you can have him "one up" Vader by not just killing the "admiral/captain" who was responsible for failure, but a significant number of crew as he continues to try prove he is a worthy successor.
Then you can move the story about overcoming fear, both for the heroes of the story, and also the villain. The audience can ask, what does Kylo Ren fear? This could have worked better with a much later revelation of Ren's true identity, with it being something hinted in subtext throughout the first movie and later revealed in the second. That reveal in the second movie reinforces the subtext of the previous movie that Ren has been tormented being related to the most hated/loved people of the galaxy and struggling to find a place in that legacy.
Making previous movies better by these kinds of threads is what set some of the OT and PT apart from he ST where there was no clear vision to have through the sequels.
@@leepatterson5710 The point of OP is that Kylo IS weak-spirited. He's not like Vader at all, and his character SHOULDN'T go in the direction of one-upping Vader at all. There are ways of making a weak-spirited villain work. It's just that the movies didn't.
@@leepatterson5710 I actually thought Vader only killing the admiral/Captain responsible for the failure was a show of strength. He doesn't just kill random underlings, he went for the one who failed without hesitation and showed that he was cold, but also understood where to draw the line. Kylo loosing control of his anger and killing a bunch of randoms without reason makes sense, but Vader controlled his anger and directed it at those who 'deserved' it.
@@victordeluca7360 This made me think of Commodus from Gladiator. One of the best weak-spirited villains ever.
No. The writers tryed to copy and paste some of the Han Solo attitude but in a so lazy and un-creative way that they ruined the scene.
That scene in Top Gun Maverick was easily my favourite scene in the movie because of the dialogue alone... It was a perfect fit for the situation and both characters explained their actions in a believable and impactful way.
…and it was set up so perfectly in the earlier scene (“ if you think up there, you’re dead!)
Love how this isn’t a hit on certain movies but an educational video to help new authors
As someone who is pretty new to writing, it’s kind of nice to see I naturally avoided a lot of dialogue mistakes
I do think a villain who labels themselves as evil can work. Someone who knows that what they're doing is morally wrong, but does it anyway for reasons. They might still believe that what they do is right from their own point of view, but also recognise they would nonetheless be seen as the bad guy from the perspective of everyone else. Or they might just think it's cool to be seen as dark or evil and revel in it (less realistic, but could see it work.)
9:01 That was actually painful to hear.
I think the one time Bathos works well enough is in Batman: Under the Red Hood, during the final confrontation between Jason and Bruce. Joker is in the room with them, and as he watches the scene play out in front of him, he cracks jokes (you know, because, Joker). However, these aren't just jokes for the sake of humor. These jokes are in relation to the situation, in a dark kind of way. He makes a joke about taking pictures of himself and Jason with a crowbar (which he used to brutally beat Jason), and talks about the irony of everything that has happened in a kind of way that he finds funny. He doesn't take away from the seriousness of the scene, but instead adds to the sadness of it. But idk, that's just my thoughts (and that last line of the paragraph is actually a good example of bad dialogue lol).
I honestly feel the best example of info dump is the new Ghostbusters w/ Melissa McCarthy vs old Ghostbusters with how they portray the science of how the backpacks work.
Not a dialogue thing, at least per se, but a good vs. bad for plot twists being earned/properly in line with character/story should be explored if it hasn’t already.
Good idea. I'll add it to my request list. Hoping to do more Good/Bad in the future
Another great video! It would be helpful to see more rewritten versions of bad scenes.
I'll keep that in mind--thanks!
Bro. That scene with Arnold and Uma is legendary, what are you talking about? They are literally playing cartoon super villains. They both today get their role here.
As soon as you explained #4, this is the exact scene that popped in my head
What other example fit these 5 categories? Let us know!
Not sure where this would fit but the scene in The Force Awakens where one of the characters says "It's another Death Star", and they literally just pop up a hologram showing how much bigger Starkiller Base is. It's sort of like the writers knew the audience would be thinking this so they tried to lampshade it but failed, pretty spectacularly. See also: Most dialogue in the sequel trilogy
I thought of one, though I don't know if it would fit since it's sort of outside the dialogue: Improper use of silence. Like in the examples you showed (With Maverick and Stepford Wives), silence can be very useful to drive certain points across about characters or information. Sometimes a LACK of dialogue can be very good dialogue/subtext.
For 4:25 (Forced Comedy), I feel like a better "good example" should've focused on when inputting comedy DOES work. One example (that I can think of) is Deadpool with Wade and "Francis" and when Francis tries to have a serious discussion, Wade makes a joke. However, unlike Kylo (who decides AGAINST killing Poe despite having already kill someone else and instead gets his guards to arrest him), Francis immediately punishes Wade by torturing him, with the torture getting worse and worse, showing that while Wade is able to crack jokes in front of Francis, Francis still is a major threat (also, eventually Wade isn't able to make a joke because he's in such pain).
Good call on that. The lack of consequences for Poe's joke is what harms that scene IMO
The fact that you analyze "The Room" (even as a "bad example") surpasses me.
An example of Bad dialogue is: background history reveal by character
A great example of good dialogue and attacking and defending is the argument scene. My favorite examples are Daredevil & Punisher from Daredevil Season 2 and the ending climax from Marriage Story. The Daredevil one is an argument between the morality of killing, Daredevil doesn't kill and Punisher does, it sounds simply but what makes it great is how the actors are delivering their lines. Both sides are shouting, slurring over words, and talking over each other like in a real argument. This is the same in the Marriage Story argument where the couple goes over everything that led to their divorce, it's a great scene for the same reasons the Daredevil/Punisher scene is so great.
Characters that yell "NO!"
I thought that scene in top gun Maverick was the *perfect* example of doing that kind of dialogue correctly. So glad to see you use it.
I love all of these bad vs good videos inevitably include examples from the SW sequel trilogy in the 'bad' column.
I love watching your videos. The Kylo/Poe scene bothered me and I wasn’t sure why. You nailed it! Kylo should have killed or tortured him for the disrespect to stay in character.
Thanks!
And yet, it speaks to Kylo's insecurities. He SHOULD have punished Poe, but he's still not sure of himself as a "bad guy". As we find out later, he was raised by the King and the Queen of the Rebellion, so that baggage made him uncertain of his own identity. He didn't even know what to say to Poe at first - hence the awkward silence that Poe, in his adrenaline-infused state, reverted to his comic attempt to diffuse. Kylo spends the entire 3 movies trying to figure himself out (yawn) and either fully embrace the dark side or ditch his youthful Goth phase and move back toward the light.
He couldn't kill him; Poe had information he needed. He took him aboard his ship where he was going to Force torture information out of him, after which he'd probably be executed. It's not much different than Leia, who disrespected Vader, but instead of killing her, he captured her to be interrogated and eventually executed. The only thing she had that Poe didn't was status, which the villains clearly stated they didn't care about via an info dump about the Senate becoming useless.
@@heatherknopp3723 Would have been better if he didn’t have insecurities in this scene
@@heatherknopp3723while what your say is true it's a storyteller's job to choose how to reveal info so that the reveal serves the story, otherwise it's classical message over storytelling.
The Room is funnier than most comedies. It's amazing.
After three rounds, good dialogue is triumphing, but I have a feeling that bad dialogue might pull off round four and avoid the sweep. Can't wait!
Hahaha it has to win eventually, right?
I've never heard a good info dump, you can instantly tell when that is happening and it's always painful to deal with.