Sir Gawain and The Green Knight - pt.1
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- čas přidán 1. 03. 2021
- We explore the symbolic structure of the first part of the the story of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight as he encounters the Knight. We look at the cosmological and ontological structure set up as Sir Gawain accepts to make an impossible promise.
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Bro...Your kindness to the other JP was epic to watch...I thank God for you being there for that moment.
How else could he have acted?
Found this channel through the recent Jordan Peterson interview. I've watched through a few videos so far and I'm already a fan. I'm definitely going to be binging these the next few weeks
Also from Jordan Peterson podcast, this is my first video and already loving it!
I also have subscribed after seeing you on Jordan’s channel.
Something else that stands out to me about the green knight and what he represents is that he sort of embodies the feminine and/or nature as he is of course green and organic as well as symbolized as preciously valuable with his gold elements. Even more so than that, in his embodied representation, it is encoded that nature offers a challenge of power dynamics in that he willingly offers his own head with little to no regard or concern. This depicts the level of power that nature possesses, and goes to say that even the highest level of human competence (Arthur and his knights (Gawain specifically), cannot tame or conquer him despite any mechanism of dominance they may possess or employ in their efforts. Again, demonstrated by deliberately permitting his own head to pay the buy-in for the wager. The claim in this could be that humans cannot stop the power of nature despite their greatest effort or destructive power. It is also mentioned by Dr. Pageau that the green knight is a type of extended arm or agent of Morgana who is known to be the nemesis of camelot, the round table, merlin, etc. She is the feminine power of chaos/nature that the green knight acts as the will and herald of. Human culture vs. nature is iconographed in this way in this story by saying that the seasons change (creation and destruction) with or without the consent of human influence.
Very good! I also note that there’s a certain nesting going on, as in layers.
The green knight is a masculine arm of a feminine ruler, in other words he represents the fact that nature is fully capable of manifesting direct force, including unambiguously threatening force, at a given level despite its overall nature being something encompassing, cyclical and mysterious.
He also, being a knight, resembles the round table knights i.e. culture, which to me implies that he stands as a message to the culture that what they are more fundamentally is still just a refined version of a form that nature can still produce in a rawer form.
He is not the same as the Arthurian knights because he lacks things like nobility, intelligence and various other elements that would come together to make a well rounded human with a ‘soul’, but he still passably mimics the baser elements of being a mere warrior/knight minus the chivalry, and can be used as a more primordial ‘knight’ by malevolent/ambivalent forces.
I.e. he is a challenge to the very aesthetic of knighthood and the civilisation and ethics that they strive to be the avatars of.
Read CS Lewis' space trilogy beginning with Out of the Silent Planet. The last book centers around Merlin's Magik.
Man, I was reading that and stopped to read something else. I need to finish it. I just finished Graham Phillips lecture on Merlin and how he was actually buried in Maine... that was a trip.
Kind of an analog to our culture, the novel has the Satanic side calling themselves N.I.C.E. like the P.C. drapery of the current movement. The Universities are infiltrated and they have control of the police and the media... very prescient at that level. He has Merlin coming back to help us later though... Excellent trilogy. My favourite Lewis is maybe Til We Have Faces.
Whoa! I love how the intro keeps getting more epic.
Thank you for this !!
Fascinating analysis Jonathan. I'm going to listen to the English verse translation after watching both of your videos.
Day-Man. Fighter of the Night-Man. Champion of the Sun! Master of Karate, and friendship for everyone
Great analysis, can’t wait for part 2.
If you’re open to suggestions I’d like to recommend the Brothers’ Grimm fairy tale Brother Lustig. It’s about an ex soldier who unknowingly goes on a journey with Saint Peter, who tests him in various ways. He gains St. Peter’s favor at first but loses it, yet later uses his experience and cunning to avoid hell and cheat his way into heaven. To my mind it blends biblical and fairy tale elements and has a curious message, I think you would have some really interesting insights.
Fantastic! I look forward to watching part 2.
when is part 2??? super interesting
Now!
First, i had to come and see this one.
Love your channel Jonathan. I know there is a deep substance to this work, but I'm grasping to understand the "basics". Do you have a reading list, article or video for the neophyte? Where does one start?
I am not JP, but I can share how I got into it.. oddly enough, I followed the same path that human culture followed.
Start with early mythology, even if you read the modern retellings of those older stories. Ask yourself "what are the authors trying to explain?"
Check out the western literary canon, thats where to start
Here:
thesymbolicworld.com/reading-list/
But I'd most recommend diving into his early videos where he introduces what the symbolic understanding is
Also, this is personally my favourite introduction into Pageau, a lecture he gave to at an Orthodox church on The Garden of Eden as a symbolic structure: czcams.com/video/RXGdaJFIB8M/video.html
his intros are just too welldone.. i wonder who he came about the iconography in it all..id like to make my own too something meaningful and beautiful aswell
Thanks
This is somewhat unrelated, Johnathan, but I would love for you to consider doing an analysis on the symbolism in C.S. Lewis Space Trilogy. I have my own thoughts, but I think your deeper experience with symbolism and using it well would be an amazing perspective to what is going on in those books. Either way I'm very glad I found your channel and I'm looking forward to how you're perspectives are going to enrich my faith.
I would also love that. I think he could also make a great lecture on the Screwtape Letters if he hasn't already.
Those are great novels. I'd like to hear his take on A Voyage To Arcturus, which C.S. Lewis cited as an influence but he hated the theology of the book... it was kind of flirting with Gnosticism maybe but it was ambiguous I think. You had the choice of a cruel mysterious God or rebellion... I can't remember but the novel is maybe the first spiritual fantasy sci fi. It influenced Tolkien too apparently. There's sort of a tradition of British spiritual fantasy I think, back to the Holy Grail.
@@MicahMicahel Interesting, I was unaware that that book was one of his inspirations. I've read and studied Lewis books/life off and on since I became a Christian at 12 but there always seems to be something new about his works or his life I didn't know. It's a wonderful heritage that him and Tolkein left for us.
My favorite story!!
Merci beaucoup par ce vidéo, Jonathan. J'aime les legendes arthuriennes et votre explication c'est beaucoup bonne, comme toujours . Je suis impatient de votre podcast en français.
There is a movie coming out soon called The Green Knight, i assume based on this story.
Yeah i hope its not far from source like many holywood book adaptations
Also they should choose english actors not africans or arabs
@@rolanddeschain9880 There's two Indians in the cast, including Sir Gawain. You didn't really expect any differently, did you?
Is there any way you could do a talk with Richard Grannon sometime? I have a feeling it would cause the universe to explode with awesomeness somehow. This would destroy the crappy condo I am living in, but would be totally worth it, if nothing else for the savings in demolition costs.
I read that King Arthur got his name from Ursa, the star sign of the Big Bear Ursa Major
Could you do one on Blue Bread? From the blue fairy book? Was reading it aloud one night to my young young daughters and half way through had to read ahead, silently… bc it turns out to be quite a “horror” type story… and not a bedtime type of story… lol my girls were quite curious but also pretty scared even before the climax of the story lol… I do want to read it to them when they are older… and would love it if you could do a break down of it’s symbolisms.
Have you looked into locals? It's in beta right now and may take a second to get going but it is neat and is a fusion between a Facebook group and Patreon. I don't know if it will help you but I want to see you succeed.
Gawain accepted transition to a headless state. This challenge is nuts (in a context of normal challenges) but also it itself expresses transition to "nuts" state (state without head).
And Gawain enters this challenge not in desire for glory (something like that was motivating the King it seems) but to save the King - you can't allow social basis to go nuts. And he took implications of King's error to himself which is noble.
Funny how I'm kinda like King Arthur when it comes to eating 😄
Hello Jonathan, I see that you videos on the website are still hosted by CZcams, Locals.com is a company started by Dave Rubin (he toured with J.B.Peterson) that lets you host and own all of your video/audio/media, as well as allowing your audience to communicate and participate with you. Just thought I'd mention it, I loved the video, can't wait to see more!
Do you know the english folklore of "Jack In The Green"?
i hope the Gawain and the Green Knight film thats coming out in the summer does the story justice.
Same here.
Im from the fuure and i think it did pretty well! Some stuff was iffy but i think it was a great retelling
@@iandavies2298 man, really? I just watched it and it felt like pornography for coastal elites.
had some great ideas and was technically proficient, but that just made the fact that it was hamstrung by propaganda that much more disappointing.
I went in thinking "flippin finally a good movie" and was super let down. Gonna wait for Dune I guess.
I am so early I can ask Jonathan Pageau to debate the anti-Pageau Jason Reza Jordani
not a debate, they should have a talk.. Id love to see Jorjani on PVK too..
Jonathon shoukd also talk with Alexandr Dugin..
@@mostlydead3261 ok maybe not debate, something more a long the line of the Rationality Rules conversation. Although Jason's Prometeus is explicitly anti-christ and he embraces gnosticism, this normally doesn't sit to well with Christians.
There also may be an interesting conversation with Alexander Filonenko, who is a physicist, philosopher and theologian. He also is an orthodox christian and lives in Ukraine.
There are courses by him about Dante, also in different courses he references thoughts of Anthony of Sourozh, Rene Girard.
I am not acquainted personally with him or Jonathan but wish someday to see them talking.
@Charm Ming “Debates are a waste of time just like porn and alcohol” these things are very toxic, funny you compare debates in general, too something so destructive, you must lose a lot of arguments.
Very nice! I love the idea of the old and new orders meeting in the backdrop of Arthurian legend. The Druidic Merlin and the Fae-like Lady of the Lake are brought into the Christian context of the Knights.
Very informative video and thank you Jonathan. I'd like to hear your opinion on proof of the spherical globe flying through space. Seems everything they show us is CG and very questionable. Confused and ignorant!!
Always loved the king Arthur series as a child.
Very interesting! 🙌🏾
At 10:40 you were so clearly talking about David and Goliath without saying their names. As you went on, Absalom, Adonijah, and the fate of Bathsheba's first son came to mind. Is some version of this cyclical pattern inevitable between fathers and sons? Is the cycle meant to be broken? In Christ somehow? Asking for a brother. ;)
Please talk to Sam Vaknin
Wonderful video. Small correction: Wales has never been Celtic.
I am so excited for this!
U ever watch armored skeptics green man video it’s interesting prospective true or not.
The symbols of the four evangelists are the Angel (Matthew), Lion (Mark), Bull (Luke) and Eagle (John). This is the same order in which the four faces of the cherubim are described by Ezekiel. Hybrids like cherubim are found on the edge between two worlds (like Reprobus). Is it a coincidence that the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are on the border between the Old Testament (old world) and the New Testament (new world)?
Congratulations on your discussion with jordan Peterson. You did a fantastic job and I hope he finds the truth in what you were sharing. As someone who’s dealt with ten years of chronic pain I have been where he is. But until one accepts and submits and listens to the body instead of fighting it one will be in dissonance and frustration. Wishing you well and I hope one day I will be doing an interview with you one day. It’s just a dream. One the size of mustard seed. Be blessed.
Hey friend, fellow chronic pain sufferer here! I really liked your comment. I can see you're a kind hearted person. I've noticed those in chronic pain are often some of the nicest people.
I like the end of your comment especially. The mustard seed story is a great motivator. Thinking about a seed itself even. It starts so small and fragile. But daily it grows stronger and bigger. Then months or years later, it is massive and even capable of giving shelter to the living. A good analogy too. Get yourself stronger so you can help others in a significant way.
Don't hold anyone in a higher regard than yourself. You are equal to even the most rich and famous people on this planet.
It’s interesting that Gawain’s story here takes place about eight days after Christmas. Jesus was circumcised (removal of the foreskin) eight days after his birth. This is to show faith and obedience to the law that God gave Moses to give to the Israelites. With the Green Knight being later revealed as under the influence of Morgan Le Fay, we have the sense of danger like the demons and the Devil looking for a soul to devour. Arthur’s court of knights weren’t perfect, and they needed to show their loyalty by submitting themselves to a terrible punishment. I notice the same thing in “Knight of the Cart” about Sir Lancelot. We are given that it takes place just after Pentecost, or the day the Holy Spirit came down from Heaven to fill the city with his love. If Lancelot was filled with lust for Guinevere in many of the legends about him, Gawain could be filled with vain glory since Arthur wasn’t supposed to eat until a Knight gave him a tale of valor.
Al kadir? is this the “Man wiser than Musa (AS)” in Surah Kafir that vandalized the boat, killed the kid, and repaired that house. And he can only be found when a dead fish jumps from the bucket to the stream.
How are these stories related?
I’m here after watching the trailer to the movie that’s coming out.
Absolutely one of my favorite medieval poems, understudied, I think, because the author is unknown.
Here from Jordan Peterson and Alberta. Glad to find your channel!
Cool! I'm interested in the pentagram on his shield. Please tell us the story of Fee Fi Fo Fum. Because I can't remember why haha.
You could say the old world is immortal. Attempting to destroy will destroy you. What is the old world? Is it all part if that garden mythology.
This story reminds me of ocarina of time for some reason
My favorite English teacher in high school had us read this story. We all though it was pretty wack, then she put on the movie with Sean Connery as the Green Knight, and we all though, No, this is way wacker than we ever imagined!
I saw the movie Sword of the Valiant, and it came across as a bit homoerotic. The blow for a blow didn't help.
im here after the movie trailer just dropped and i want to learn so much about it!
can’t wait for the movie
If you are looking for the best translations, I’d recommend Merwin or Armitage. I would avoid Tolkien, Borroff and Raffel. There are many others I haven’t read. I’d also recommend Armitage for Pearl.
Out of curiosity, what does Tolkien do wrongly in his translation?
@@Xanaseb Taking a quick look back today at the opening of Pearl, I'd say the main problem is using a bad pastiche of Victorian verse.
Jon Lovits
One of my favorite tales.
I hope you can carry on. I've got this magical story on tape. I copied it off the radio BBC radio 3 in 1992. It's my yuletide ritual to listen to it once every year between Boxing Day &New Year.
Jonathan, have you ever read the writings of Dallas Willard?
Man, I loved this story. Sir Gawain's earnest attitude towards his host just made it more charming and hilarious.
Dear Johnathan, I recently watched your interview with Jordan Peterson. Regarding that, I have a private message I would like to get to Jordan Peterson and wondered if you would be willing to help send it on to him? As a fellow member of the Orthodox Church I am asking this favor in God.
Thank you for your help.
Glory to God.
One about scuttling a ship?
Is not Green Knight seen as symbol of nature? Ageing, disease, dying?
No Sean Connery, and that was disappointing, but as usual, Jonathan blew my mind.
Best Arthurian adaption ever! I only wish they had included more unicorns, jajaja
Any other Wheel of Time fans here that recognize these things?
Yeah!! Me too!!!
There's so much in WOT that is related to mythology!!!
I read this story for my English literature class. It’s a great story and the explanation is helpful.
Can the green knight represent nature and if we destroy nature... eventually, after a season, we essentially destroy ourselves because we depend more on nature than nature depends on us. The proverbial “bitting the hand that feeds us?” Interesting that even though the green knight got a fatal blow to the head... he still casually picks up his head and rides off... because nature will recover with or without us. Interesting.
I agree with your assessment. Nature will always recover. The question is will we?
Hope to see a review of the new Green Knight movie by Pageau :)
I'd love to hear you talk about the Pearl by the Gawain Poet
Please tell me Sean Connery is featured in this video....
Read this at University back in 1998, love the new analysis, just goes to show how certain texts are timeless. We need to always look back to them and not forget them.
I know you don't have a whole lot of time, but it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on Mary Stewart's Merlin Trilogy.
Ha! Just started reading this the other day!
Same here!
Sounds like the great Reset , getting rid of the old and ushering the new ...sounds relevant
The director in me doesn’t understand the inciting incident. Why would anyone agree to the original challenge? Why chop the head off a stranger? Why condemn yourself to only one year of life when you have important duties to other people?
Well, nobody wanted to come off as a coward. Actually everyone did in the first place, and so, to somehow save the honour of his own court, the king accepts the challenge. It is just then when Gawain, probably feeling enormous shame, accepts the challenge instead. It was a big deal for a knight to be considered a coward. It is actually the main theme of the work, so I guess it makes more sense with the whole story in mind, part 2 is probably going to clear any more uncertainty.
Yeah this story is pretty fucking dumb to begin with
Bringing up the Arthur stories reminds me that I'm curious about your perspective on the Holy Grail as a story item. There's the clear connection and parallels to the Eucharist in it's background but I feel even in stories that do accept the metaphysical (Such as Indiana Jones) the process of "get cup, be immortal" comes across as very mechanical for such a grace it would offer, but on the other hand being worthy to receive it I could understand it being that simple
comment for better reach
Jonathan you should consider uploading to odysee besides youtube like Jordan Peterson does
What’s the song to the opening
P
Yow yow yowww
I thought this was about the bertonian green knight
Love this. Just started reading these to my kids, so perfect timing. Thanks!
Yay, I love Arthurian legends!
Brilliant marketing to make a cliff-hanger video with a patron reminder the first video after a Jordan Peterson viewership spike 😂
Every time he says "blow" I'm just believing that these knights are doing coke together
I read this in college
The movie was not good. I guess that's what happens when an Atheist, vegan, progressive takes on a story like that. Very disappointing.
It's not ok that they brown washed Sir Gawain in the upcoming Green Knight movie.