I wish Sega would let Sonic be more expressive. Imo Sonic's personality is what makes him so much better than Mario, and I think they should build off of that instead of toning it down.
We just need a 3d sonic game that has a good story and gameplay that helps sonic back into the spotlight and they should let other characters and sonic have personality like take blaze for example they dont even talk about that character anymore and the character was good so was silver there is so much more potential that they don't use
Definitely guys. I was watching Sonic Unleashed cutscenes the other day and it was crazy how much Sonic seemed to be going through after Amy didn’t recognize him. I know it may not sound like much but it really is, especially compared to the modern Sonic from the most recent main game, Forces😑
@@funnysonicman exactly! In that cutscene in Unleashed I felt bad for Sonic! I wanted to hug him and tell him everything would be alright and it made me want to complete the game even more! When characters emote we feel for them. In Forces they built up all this tension saying Eggman's conquered everything, there's a war going on, Sonic's been imprisoned and TORTURED for MONTHS for god's sakes, and then when you find him he's as bright and as sunny as ever. All that tension fell flat on it's face because if our hero isn't the least bit concerned, why should we be?
Agreed The funny part is in Mania when you look up as any character they have a different expression Sonic’s is him looking curious What ever happened to that
@@funnysonicman Agreed. Even though Unleashed has character changes or inconsistencies (tbf not all stories are perfect), at least it wasn't to the same range/magnitude as a game like Forces
In the context of Amy here, I really like how open she is, both to her own feelings, and to her acceptance of Sonic's goals. She caves easily because she understands that asking Sonic to settle down and fight with the resistance would seriously go against his own personal beliefs and sense of freedom, and trusts him to make the right judgement of his own abilities. Sonic, in turn, offers the suggestion that she come with him, just as he did with tails. In this regard, we see that Sonic isn't just wanting to go off on his own. He wants the freedom to handle eggman in his own way and help people in the way that he knows best (by being the big fast), but he clearly cares about Amy and wants her company, just like he does with tails. It's a far cry from back when he used to run from her or treat her like a nuisance. Here's he takes her seriously enough to argue his point despite not really needing to, and even reciprocates her feelings, to a point (whatever form that takes, for him). It's a really neat dynamic, in my opinion.
" It's a far cry from back when he used to run from her or treat her like a nuisance. " The only reason he did that WAS because she was obsessively fangirl'ing over him. Every time she does something "lovey-dovey" in the issue #2 , Sonic instantly shoots her down. As soon as she gives up on "chasing" Sonic. He takes her more seriously.
You’ve realize a few things: 1. Not a lot of people will read it all. 2. Children will skip over ‘some’ important words. 3. And, there shouldn’t be more than 3 Composters In one sentence. (Sorry If “composters” are spelled wrong.) 4. The periods placement aren’t that realistic. You could fit 3 periods into the sentence on your comment. Like. Run-on sentence. 5. SOME words were miss spelt. Or doesn’t make sense into the position that was given to that word.
The dynamic idea is good but I still don’t ship soamy except the Boom! version because in Boom version Sonic and Amy are both flawed but likeable characters,the fact that they care and fight with each is almost perfect though it can get silly. I need to watch the full show to get into this.
if they keep this up, Amy might even be better than Sally. Sally is unfortunately dead forever. If Amy can be quirky and cute while having leadership roles she's trying to grow into while toning down her worst traits, she'll be pretty awesome and finally a character I can enjoy. Too bad most of that personality seems to be from the comics and not the game, where she feels like she has very little personality.
It’s honestly impressive to see how Ian is able to not only make the story much more in-depth, and better than sonic forces (the game), but to also make the characters much more than 1-dimensional. If SEGA ever want to see a “Sonic Forces 2”, they need to take notes off of this comic to be successful.
@@DanieleMulas-up7np He has a point. While these comics aren't the most in depth thing out there, he only said that the comics were better and more in-depth than Forces; which you have to agree wasn't a high bar to begin with. I can't begin to label significant character traits to anyone in forces without looking at past games, meanwhile in the comics, the other characters seem to actually do things other than wait on Sonic to solve everything.
@@DanieleMulas-up7np Ian did have to essentially reestablish these characters. And dfter the arc involving Eggman returning, it was to be expected they'd try something new. Even if you don't agree with what's being done in the story currently, you have to commend that Ian was able to make something a lot of fans are happy with out of the mess that was Sonic Forces' plot.
My favorite part of the IDW run right now is Flynn’s portrayal of Silver. As a Silver fan, I love what he’s doing with Silver and how he works knowledge of the future into the plot. Silver’s also just an adorable dork throughout the entire run, which I love, too.
I think personally Amy has always had that leader/commander side to her but Sega hasn't always presented it in the games. But Sonic Heroes is a good example, I think it also has to do with Amy's empathetic side and how she's a very understanding character. She's willing to help others out. Because of this I wouldn't necessarily say Amy has replaced Sally's role as some say, but I can understand the frustration. I've never really been familiar with the freedom fighters but I know unlike Amy, Sally has consistently been represented as a leader, hell she's a princess. But like you said in the video Amy and Sally will handle it differently, and I agree, they're different in both their written personalities and how they handle their roles as leaders.
How sonic forces portrayed tails was basically a mess. He acts as if he can do nothing to help and says sonic help me if I'm sure Tails beat chaos 2 and has helped best eggmans empire Out of Angel island. Now he's back to relying on sonic as if he hasn't beaten things stronger than that fake chaos. These guys did a way better job with forces than sega. Doesn't help the fact that these guys worked on the notoriously violent happy tree friends.
hello edge lord! how you fell the way shadow was portraied in the comics? do you like or u think it shadow have come back to pre 06 status as "edge over anything"
"sOnIc hElP mE" - Tails 2017 Also I'm glad that tails in the Idw comics he has a personality in comics because he is like sonic adventure 1-2,heros,sonic 2,3,tails adventure thank you sonic writers your doing great.
Oh, and it's "sOnIc... pleeeeeeeeeeeez..." now. Not that Tails is the only character who has regressed, mind you. Eggman:"Metal Sonic, kill for daddy!" Oh, so you're his "daddy" and he's your little bitch? Cause the first story arc gave me the impression that they'd actually let him be something more than Eggman's mindless puppet for once. And i was never fond of how they've been portraying Knuckles and Shadow from the very beginning.
I know it was just a side point in the video, but honestly the part about them focusing on how characters are portrayed is an interesting one. The fact that Sonic can't cry makes me upset, because it limits his character and makes him feel less believable as a character. SEGA did this in the Archie comics as well, there are some comparisons between story boarding and final comic strip that shows Sonic's emotions being heavily toned down. I know you'll get to it with another video, but Shadow is the best example of that and is a pretty big insult to his origins. It feel that they want to make Sonic appeal to everyone by stripping down characters and make them as strait forward as possible, but in the process destroying that character's identity. This was a great video and I can't wait for the next!
I wholeheartedly agree, Sonic actually having a character is what made him stand out against his contemporaries at the time-- but now we're in an era where games are getting closer and closer to movies with realized characters. Just having some 'tude isn't gonna fly.
@@beardo5468 As said in the video, Sonic is a corporate mascot first and a character second as far as Sega are concerned. If Sonic looks weak, then it makes Sega look weak....by Sega logic. It's the nature of the business
A while ago i read that Flynn had planned a better thing about shadow, but SEGA wanted shadow to be the stubborn, filled with toxic pride, vegeta-esque guy.
I wish the characterization was this good in the games, it would be so fun Instead of “It’s been gEnErAtIoNs since I’ve seen you buddy buddy!” Thanks anyway Ian Flynn👏
Yes and no. Yes in that this WAS his character arc in Adventure, and how his gameplay operated in Adventure 2. The anti-precision platforming of Heroes was also semi-critical in this portrayal, because Tails' flight was the thing that made his character archetype distinct within the Speed/Flight/Power core of the game. But, well, after Heroes the games went pretty head-strong into Sonic as the focus. I wouldn't be above betting the entirety of my "Corona Stimulus Check" that Sonic Unleashed wouldn't have been as controversial if the Were-hog stages were instead treated as "Knuckles stages". Sonic Colors gave Sonic special temporary abilities, when you know full-well that other characters are known for doing those types of things...but fuck that, right? Fuck anyone who's not Sonic, because Sonic is Sonic!
@@onijester56 Very true, I really hate that Sonic Team makes all these friends for sonic, then don't do anything with them. If they refined the characters gameplay and gave characters important things to do the games could be even better.
6:27 Seems Tails is picking up on some of that cockiness from Sonic, cute. It reminds me if the subtle things like in the Advance titles where he tries to copy Sonic's poses and fails (until Advance 3 iirc, he's surprised that he finally poses right). Something similar happens in the OVA when they meet Metal Robotnik. Man, it's things like this why I've always fucking loved the Sonic series. It's always expressive, even in subtlety.
I'd say it's his apart of his family, culture, and ancestry. His bloodline is intrinsically tied to the Master Emerald and Angel Island to the point where he can physically feel if they are disturbed. If it wasn't for Knuckles' isolation on Angel Island then he wouldn't be as gullible, overly serious, or even probably as good of a treasure hunter. I Knuckles could put a leash on Angel Island and bring it with him, he would.
Honestly, the IDW comics do a pretty good job at portraying these characters, even with the limits Sega puts on them (like shadow...who’s probably the most eeghh character unfortunately :[ ) like .i genuinely felt hurt when a handful of the characters became zombots in this arc, my gosh.
Agreed... both on how Ian handles it and how Shadow was portrayed. Shadow to me is in similar case to batman in the sonic series than a simple vegeta character. They are both heroes in their own right but does things their way. they both have a terrible past that bring them to what they are today, and despite being the big loner, he has a family of his own after losing his first one [Rouge and Omega]. In truth, if they kept the inhibitor rings idea, if they focus on that core idea for both the comics and games instead of making him a rival, I would like Shadow more. [In truth, I feel like that's what Ian was aiming for with his first introduction in the IDW series, but I guessed SEGA wanted a different approach]. Who knows, maybe SEGA will allow it, but we will have to wait and see.
I kind of wish that the writing team from the comics and Sonic team can just come together and make a game from the comics. Or at least have the future games be based off the comic series.
@@paperluigi6132 Fans have too many contradicting opinions. Sega/Sonic Team should only bring on proffesionals and people who have proven themselves capable of participating in a team project and sacrificing their ability to have their ideas implemented from time to time.
For me personally, my love for the IDW comics ultimately boils down to the near excellent characterization for the characters, as Sonic Forces did such a poor job at portraying almost every character in the game. Sonic is cool and cocky, but knows when the situation needs to be taken seriously. Tails doesn’t feel like a sidekick and feels more like a partner to Sonic and crew. IDW even managed to make me start liking Silver, a character who I wasn’t even all that fond of to begin with. Everyone feels like a competent hero in their own right that makes up a Resistance, rather than just a back up team for Sonic while he handles the main boss.
I can't help but laugh and smile with joy as I read the comments on this video. The personalities of Sonic, Tails, Amy and Knuckles is all based off the Adventure games, an era of Sonic, SEGA wishes to ignore for inspiration for some reason. Ian Flynn is definitely one of the best writers for the Sonic comics.
Thats because Sega would actually have to admit this to the adventure era and it's fans; "You couldn't live with your own mistakes, where did that bring you?, back to me!".
Not even the blessings of Ian Flynn's "make characters good" can fix Shadow, I hate what Shadow has become, I miss the "I will protect earth and my team" in SA2 and 06 and not "friends are weak" or "I don't need anyone" in Boom and TSR
To be frank, I sorta rolled my eyes with Shadow and kept going forward. That said, it DOES need to be addressed, and I hope they handle this a little better going forward. Certainly wont be the last time we see Shadow.
I don't think the way Shadow was portrayed was Flynn's fault. Ever since Sonic Boom, Sega has been pushing the idea that Shadow is esentially Vegeta and will seek any opportunity to antagonize Sonic... Logic and character development be dammned.
I feel like after 06, they made Shadow’s character way too much like Vegeta..Sure, Shadow may not be a very cheery fella but he doesn’t need to become a Vegeta clone lol. I like how they portrayed him in 06. He felt like a dark hero that didn’t waste time and got to the point, but he didn’t do it alone.
Just another stupid retcon, remember when Shadow swore to always honour Maria's last wish to protect the earth? However thanks to Sega forcing the two worlds concept into canon, the "Earth" is consider the human world while Sonic and Co come from a different world in a different dimension (despite the lore of the adventure games as well as unleashed saying otherwise). So either Shadow broke his oath to Maria OR Sega have erased Shadow's character development in the adventure era? (either option is stupid considering SA2, Heroes and Shadow's own game all took place in IDWs continuity). And notice we've got planet Wisp and the Earth yet neither Sonic nor Blaze's world's are given names?
I personally do not understand where this "Amy is a Sally clone" argument comes from other than a misplaced sentiment of frustration from SatAM/Archie fans... and I say misplaced, because Sega nor Sonic Team are at fault since Amy was always meant to be the lead female character, while Sally is more the product of a spinoff cartoon and hardly the important part of the franchise many people say she is, especially considering that the only reason she and the FF's were kept around was because of the Archie staff rather than a direct instruction from Sega. Other than both being leaders in their respective universes, that's pretty much where the similarities end. Sally is a leader because she comes from a royal family and therefore is a figure of authority whom others have to follow. In contrast, Amy's leadership come from her personality and charisma, with others following her lead because they choose to. I also disagree with the idea that Amy's leadership is something new brought up out of nowhere. In Sonic Heroes, we see her lead her own team on a rescue mission. This was essentially the next logical step in her character development because previously in SA1, we see Amy grown into a heroine by herself and helping a helpless bird. In Heroes, she now helps characters who much like her, had no experience and guides them throughout their adventure, always keeping their morale, believing in them and never letting them give up whenever they felt scared or their hope faltered. And it's not only in Heroes, but also the comics and cartoons were Amy displays sparks of being a natural born hero... Even in the second issue of Archies' Sonic Megadrive, after Sonic decides to go solo, we see how Knuckles makes an attempt to lead that does not result well for poor Tails, while Amy succeeds because she encourages team work and has a way to bring people together. Another argument I've seen is the issue of her being too young and no mature enough... And while that is certainly true, personally I don't think that maturity matters because being a leader is a question of attitude, not maturity. An example of this is John Connor in Terminator 2, who despite being around the same age as Amy, also displays leadership qualities despite his age and even flaws (since he is a delinquent kid), being one of the more important scenes the one where Sarah tries to smash the CPU of the good Terminator, which John stops her from doing and makes Sarah realize that she is holding him back from becoming the leader humanity will need when she refuses to trust his judgement. Of course, Amy can't do everything on her own, and it's here were her rriends and the other characters come into play. In the IDW comic, we even see some like Blaze who offers advise and input on her plans, like when they went to liberate Angel Island. IMO, Amy is not a Sally clone nor a fill-in. She is her own character and earned the role on nothing but her very own merit. To say otherwise is to brush off all the development invested in Amy, which is in line with one of the key traits of her persobality: having a strong desire to help others. Her only reason to take on the role is not because of personal recognition, fame or duty... It's the people in need. This is why she politely refused Sonic's invitation to join his adventures in IDW#2 and why she formed the Restoration to help people rebuild their world after Knuckles literally quit out of boredom and without even bothering to tell her.
I really like that now that Amy’s grown and matured past “girl with crush” she actually has a lot more chemistry with Sonic and plays off him well, it’s cute, and it’s fun
Loved the points addressed in this vid. You pretty much nailed everything on the head. The way characters were handled and portrayed in Forces makes me wonder how Ian Flynn would handle a certain reality-bending Jackal and I cannot be anymore excited for it.
Riolan I... believe he wrote the prequel comic “Rise of Infinite”? Not much was able to be done since it was a short, but I’d like to see more of how Ian would handle Infinite.
As opposed to Sally specifically, I always felt Amy was just having her Sonic Boom personality bleed into the main continuity. Regardless of how that series faired, Amy was certainly portrayed as a leader type there so seeing it in the comics doesn't seem too out of left field.
sonicsaiyan07 Boom Amy was also criticized for being too much like Sally, especially in the Boom Archie comics where she’s the team leader for no reason and acts like a bitchier version of Sally with literally none of that cute and mildly goofy charm and desire to help people because it’s the right thing to do that Amy’s character used to be all about. IDW does keep that part of her character intact though, so it’s fine by me.
I have never read a single Archie Sonic comic and got in only with IDW. From all the heartache the Archie fans seem to have with the lost characters, I'm almost glad I missed out on that whole era. I am able to enjoy the IDW comics to the fullest I feel. I do not in any way say this to diss the Archie fans. They had their whole epic journey and honestly I am bummed I missed out on all that.
Watsobe Me too. I ended up binging the Archie comics starting from Issue 160 (that was when Ian Flynn took over for writing), and when I was finished, I felt...very empty. Very sorry. It’s definitely worth a read, at least from Issue 160 onwards.
SEGA really should hire Ian Flynn for the writing of the future games. IDW is amazing. Both the characters (except Shadow) and the story telling is great
God, it's incredible how well you know this series. It's respectable, your the kid in the class who everybody asks for lore and you give them everything and more. God damn it's nice to know someone cares about all of Sonic and not just classic, cartoon, or modern Sonic, but Sonic The Hedgehog in general.
The Sonic Forces comics were probably the only Sonic comic series I've enjoyed, ever. The original Archie comics series was a convoluted mess with various moments of questionable art. I liked your analysis on Sonic not being able to show emotions other than his "raddy attitude". Sonic is a -passive- flat protagonist, like Goku. He doesn't really change, other characters around him change because of his actions, and that is ok. Amy is probably my favorite character in this Sonic Forces comics. She is quirky, she is independent and not obsessed with Sonic. They actually gave her a personality. I honestly don't understand why readers have issues with that, when it improves her character by 200%. Edit: thanks Jamal Hartley for correcting me on the nomenclature.
I think you mean he's a flat character. Passive would indicate that Sonic only acts when threats affect him personally. He's very much an active character. Seeing as Goku kinda sort almost killed a bunch of universes with the tournament power I'd say he's pretty active too. Ichigo from Bleach is a perfect example of a passive character/protagonist.
@@jamalhartley5863 yes, thank you! I meant flat protagonist, my mistake. But what I meant is that Sonic and Goku are protagonists with "flat character arcs". Unlike other types of characters, such as those with "positive character arcs", which revolves around "the lie the character believes" (like Shadow and Vegeta), the flat character arc is based on "the truth the character believes". Both Sonic and Goku are easygoing characters that essentially are the same in terms of personality and don't go through massive changes; Sonic is defined by his free spirit and love for speed, while Goku is defined by trying to always become a better fighter and meet stronger opponents. They overcome their challenges by following those beliefs, and they don't change, but characters around them do: both Shadow and Vegeta eventually become allies to Sonic and Goku, respectively, after their interactions with said characters. They go through their character arcs and change their beliefs after meeting the protagonists. Thank you for your input on Ichigo, that was a good point.
My stance on the Sally/Amy issue of the comics doesn’t have anything to do with who Sonic should date. I couldn’t care less about Sonic’s love life honestly. What my main issue came down to was that for the longest time I felt Amy was basically written as a Sally clone which I felt did a disservice to her character. The things I’ve always found charming about her character are the goofier things about her like her crush on Sonic or massive temper (neither elevated to the ridiculous levels of some games though) and I felt that the comics stripped that away from her in trying to fill the hole Sally left behind and it messed up what I liked about Amy so much. Granted, on re-reading I did notice some of her old personality like her entire debut issue and certain moments like wondering where Shadow went on Angel Island or getting excited at Sonic carrying her. But I overall came for the realization that, while she was taking on a Sally role, her personality shift was to that of Sonic Boom Amy rather than maintaining what the games and older cartoons had done. And again, I’ve never liked that shift because I feel it erases the more erratic aspects of her personality. I do like how she’s written in the comic and she has a lot of great moments, but sometimes I feel her character and arcs are restricted by her position as leader of the resistance. Sally isn’t even my favorite Freedom Fighter by the way, it’s Rotor. And no one has really “replaced” him in IDW yet as an older friend of Tails who is just as much of a genius as him. Also, fun fact to bring up for this debate: I’m pretty sure some manuals for Sonic CD referred to Amy as Sally Acorn. So that’s pretty funny with this new context.
I agree, for the most part. I don't know about the Boom part though because Amy definitely kept her temper in that incarnation, she was even a complete jerk sometimes. Also I do believe that Amy was toned down because of how much hate she has gotten for being herself over the years. She was probably given the commander role because know other popular characters could fill that role besides Tails, Blaze, Silver, Rouge, or Vector and none of them could sustain a leadership role for that long because the live somewhere completely different, are too inexperienced, or have other people they have to look after. Also I heard some people getting mad because they thought Tangle was going to be Sally (reminds me of the whole people thinking that Sticks the Badger was actually Marine the Raccoon).
@@SuperBlueGamer9000 I like her canon/mainline personality more, especially when she acted more mature during the 1998-2009 era. I still think that Cindy Robinson is a very talented voice actress and I think she has a good Amy voice in stuff like Lego Dimensions, I just like Jennifer Douillard and Lisa Ortiz's voices/voice directors much more. I understand where you're coming from though.
I agree with you on Knuckles being a fighter, I don't see him as this big leader of a resistance force. If you want Knuckles to lead a team have him lead the chaotix like in the previous comics. You could have it that they're this "hit them hard and hit them fast", you call us to do the suicide mission or need the extra muscle type team sort of like The Wreckers from the Transformers franchise.
Knuckles should've took Silver and Espio's place as the face of the resistance and the main heroes inspiring the animal people. The leader should have been Amy (she's good at persuading people and she has been a team leader multiple times), Tails (he is a genius with a lot of motivation to stop the Eggman Empire), Silver (he has survived living in an apocalypse and has an unshakable drive to see a world of peace), Rouge (technically the leader of Team Dark and is extremely cunning and a great tactition who probably has military training), or Vector (is an experience leader and someone who has a strong preference that respects attention).
@@chocov1233 Problem is Espio is probably more fit for a face of the resistance/leader role. The guy's a literal fuckin' ninja. Knuckles is just some hermit who guards a shiny gem on a floating island.
@@diddlypoop Who has a presence of authority, was technically the og leader of the Chaotix, and can destroy parts of buildings and whole boulders with one punch.
NGL, when the IDW comics were first announce to take place right after Forces, I wasn't very happy. But then I found out Flynn was working on it, and gave it a chance. I've been enjoying IDW's run ever since.
These are the kind of writers we need on the Sonic games. They actually know how to tell are cohesive story. And honestly I like how Amy had been doing as leader, though I really wished they brought Sally in to the main series.
I’m interested on your opinion on Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood. Yeah the gameplay, music, graphics, etc aren’t great. But the story in that game is probably the cleanest attempt to join the game story and archie’s story together. With that backlash that came from that game I was surprised when SEGA said that Forces was taking inspiration from the comics. Anyways, I’d love to see a video of you discussing your opinion of Chronicles’ story.
Same. I loved Shade as a character and I think the Nocturnus clan had a great potential, but because of Penders's lawsuits we'll prebably never see them again. Fuck Penders.
as a person who's only aware of the characters through the games I thought that Amy would have been a better choice as leader of the Resistance from the start.
Unfortunately for some reason writers (at least in recent years) aren't smart enough to involve Knux in the plot without screwing up his role as guardian. They even make him leave the Master Emerald unguarded to continue the trend of making him look overly incompetent/dense OR pretend the Master Emerald/Angel Island don't exist even though its an intrinsic part of Knux's character just like Shadow's history with the ARK (the games actually did this for roughly a decade post 06)
Hey man. Don’t fret on the video or how you edit it. Everything you say is awesome and makes super sense. So just roll with man. Your voice is like some master craft golden spitfire . So it works. Keep up the good work brotha!
On Friday, February 21, 2020, Sonic Team uploaded a video called “The Brief History of Sonic the Hedgehog 101” on Sonic Channel, their official website. In the latter part of that video, Sonic Team stated that Amy Rose is “an independent hedgehog with a strong sense of justice.” Sonic Team confirmed that Amy’s character growth and maturity, as clearly seen in the IDW Sonic comic series, are 100% canon. Therefore, Amy is not a carbon-copy or Mary-Sue of Sally Acorn as so many Archie Sonic and SatAM die-hards want to falsely accuse Amy to be all because they’re upset that Sally Acorn isn’t in IDW Sonic as the leader or as the lead female protagonist which Amy always was in the main Sonic universe. The head of Sonic Team, Takashi Iizuka himself stated that IDW Sonic is the canon continuation of Sonic Forces and Sonic Team, unlike with Archie Sonic, supports IDW Sonic, especially since SEGA has more control and influence over the Sonic comics this time around. Also, Sally and the Freedom Fighters aren’t canon to any of the Sonic video games produced by Sonic Team and SEGA of Japan. No offense but Sally and the Freedom Fighters are irrelevant to the canon video games and IDW Sonic won’t reference anything from Archie Sonic or from SatAM as SEGA wants the new Sonic comics to stay true to the canon modern Sonic video games. Also, Sonic Spinball and Sonic Mean Bean Machine aren’t canon, they were just non-canon spin-offs and Ian Flynn himself in a Bumblekast stated that those two games don’t count as canon. SEGA of Japan don’t want the Freedom Fighters because they don’t fit with their vision of Sonic and SatAM doesn’t advertise Sonic Team’s game characters or video games.
You know, there's a part of me that would really like to see a new Sonic game that take the visuals in a new direction and tries to capture a sort of cell shaded approach that looks something along the lines of the comics. Not sure if anyone else had felt this way but I've felt like a part of my inability to connect with the charactrrs in recent Sonic games comes as much from the stagnant and kind of uninteresting art direction as much as the writing. I almost feel like the character designs are almost trapped inside the models they're stuck in and I'd love to see it taken in a slightly different direction
@@GameApologist Either way. I'm interested to see what they've got up their sleeves next. If they can nail that gameplay and style down we're good but I'm still really hoping for the day they decide to really run wild with the story and do something new and exciting for the characters! They would probably do well to take some notes from Flynn but I know that's not generally how business runs
I feel like, as diverse as fans needs and wants may be, everyone has a morbid curiosity/genuine hope when it comes to each new release. They are always SO close to nailing things.
YES! Love this video mate, i feel like your comfortably filling in a gap in the Sonic the Hedgehog video scene once occupied by Cybershell with the detailed analysis of the comics, keep it up!
I really hope to see Whisper and Tangle become a part of future games, as well as to see Blaze return. It'd also help if the current voice cast from Colors onwards is being replaced anyways. Ultimately though, the flanderization and misunderstanding of Tails and Knuckles in the games, especially in Forces, has gotten me to a boiling point with the franchise and I don't see myself bothering with future titles if Sega/Sonic Team doesn't get their writing together soon
Same, it all started with them getting screwed out of their super forms in Heroes and it all slowly went downhill from there... Funny how Sega scrapped the Hyper forms for being "too DBZ" yet have made it so that only the male hedgehogs can go super with the chaos emeralds in the "modern" era (similar to how only saiyans can go "super") and insist on writing Shadow as a bootleg diet-Vegeta, the hypocrisy is hilarious!
It really shows how little Sega/Sonic Team get their characters now and it’s a shame because Ian’s original version of that scene was miles better than what we got
He thought he was immune because one of his abilities is being immune to all diseases because he is the ultimate lifeform and he was created to be a biological super alien government weapon hedgehog and as a way to research a cure for the illness that Maria Robotnik had.
Chocov 123 That stuff about Maria’s disease isn’t canon anymore (I don’t even think it ever was). Even still, Shadow was clearly being engulfed by the metal virus and he didn’t even try to start running it off like Sonic. I know he was surrounded by tons of Zombots but he can freaking fly with his shoes. He should’ve been able to see that the virus was overtaking him and should’ve begun doing what Sonic had been doing for awhile now.
I met Ian Flynn at a convention, he had no lineup and asked for no money for an autograph... i bought the first collection (issues 1-4)and immediately loved what he did with Tails.... the next day i personally tanked him for doing right by my favorite character, bought a couple more issues and have been showing sonic fans who honestly.... were like me completely unaware of its existence.... if the first time i heard of the comic was by seeing a booth with Ian Flynn himself selling the thing.... anyway i hope your video gives the comic much needed attention
The comic is Great! But I had a little problem, Why is shadow edgy? This is his 'shadow the hedgehog' game personality, his original (SA2) personality is the best and he isn't edgy there.
@@trizilitz3201 Even the comic says it out loud and called shadow an "anti-hero" and I am disappointed, don't get me wrong, this comic is awesome, but them getting shadow's personality wrong bothered me a lot.
@@trizilitz3201 Hey, he wasn't that bad in Heroes, 06, Black Knight, or even some parts of Shadow the Hedgehog. Also besides some voice lines and that one scene with pre-mask Infinite, he wasn't to bad in Forces. Everyone is conflating Dark/Neutral Shadow from his game and Boom Shadow with game Shadow, he hasn't been the same since 2003 but that doesn't mean that he's horrible.
@@lordkooner He is an anti-hero, he is friends with a "former" thief/criminal and a blood-thirsty killing machine robot. Not to mention he goes on spec-op missions for a government agency, where he might have to presumably kill or injure people. Also he straight up was going to let everyone die on the planet and no good deeds are going to stop that from always being something held against him.
My first thought when making a custom character in Sonic Forces was trying to recreate one of the Freedom Fighters. It was always my dream to see Sally in a game. Like you said, they're important characters, but even as an optimist I know that won't ever (officially) happen. RIP Sally and crew. You deserve better.
Thou I was very upset with the earlier position of some characters in Forces and this comic a while back but I've come to expect what's going on with it and like some of the narrative overtime. That's for addressing your thoughts while staying positive to the previous continuity of the comics and it's characters(Archie) but you have a nack for that kind of thing and I thank you.
I read the IDW comics without knowing much about the games or the Archie comics, so it was very interesting to see your take on it. Im exited to see more of this!
I couldn't get past the 3rd level of forces. (The cut-scenes were long and the gameplay controls felt so restricting.) So, hopefully the comic does something good with the storyline.
Honestly the comic has very little to do with Forces aside from the fact that it takes place after it. Even then the only important details are that the characters formed a resistance and eggman built a giant robot that was destroyed by Sonic, Fat Sonic, and Custom Sonic.
I've known about this forever and it drives me crazy that I haven't heard anyone talk about it. In the Sonic Forces prequel comic "Looming Shadow" one page has 2 pictures of Sally Acorn, one next to Knuckles and another by herself. Those are canon so some version of Sally exists in the main canon.
@@superhedgehog6447 czcams.com/video/b-1AAkPZhLY/video.html If you go to 1:05 in this video you'll see her. Considering this context this means that at least Knuckles and Rouge know her
Yeah, they'll probably never show her in the games or anything but it's cool to think that she is out there somewhere, like Mighty and Ray for instance
I'm also a massive fan of Ian Flynn (having gotten into the Sonic comics through the 2010s book releases.) When I think of Sonic characters, I tend to think of how he portrayed them. With nuance. Finding depth where others might scoff at the notion. His job was also a dream job of mine when I was younger. I think it's safe to say that his work had quite an impact on me as an aspiring storyteller and artist. I also read the Sonic Archives series, and have a lot of nostalgia for the original, Pre-Adventure run, but after that... yeah, it's hit-and-miss. Flynn's the one who figured out how to do Modern Sonic in comics. Penders... didn't. So yeah, this is a long ramble essentially to say... thank you, Ian Flynn and crew, for saving the comic. And thank you SEGA/IDW for keeping them on for this one. Very excited for the future.
I like to think that the mandates mean that Sonic can’t get excessively upset or something to that degree. And in Sonic Jam, he has a character bio that has tears as his dislikes. I’m probably looking too deep into this and the mandates still suck
I love the IDW comics! The only thing I don't like about them is Shadow's portrayal and the fact that Infinite is nowhere to be found. I hate how Sega micro-manages the comics 😒
It's a double-edged sword, even though it sucks from time to time, if Sega didn't impose any control over the comics then some writers could make this series go over the deep end like Archie did sometimes, and that isn't good for anyone's image.
Sonic Forces having a lot of potential is an understatement, let me fix it for you, Sonic Forces in it's entirety, is misse potential. Great ideas, nonexistant execution, even Infinite was botched, I hope that if he comes back in a game, they need to rework him, and I hope he does come back, he'd be a great rival for Shadow, they'd have to treat Shaow better first... my god, I really love the boost games, but their wrighting, oh my god...
While I do appreciate what Iann Flynn is trying to do with I do have one concern that I have with that no one seems to notice, I don't want the comics seen as the only way to make story/character development when they should be in the game in the first place. For me at least It's like in Destiny 1 Grimoire Card system instead of having all the Lore and stories in the game they make you go to Bungie's website/ Destiny App, now granted this isn't a perfect comparison and the Grimoire Card are earned in-game but in theory, it's taking away story/lore that would have been in the game and put it elsewhere.
The big issue is all on Sonic Team and whether or not they take the fan support of genuinely good narratives that come from these comics. If they hired Ian Flynn as a lead writer early on in development of a new game for example, then from the get go there's already a much better chance the game can have a story on par or even exceeding something like Unleashed or Black Knight (the top sonic game stories imo). The sad truth of it is that until those in charge of the games see the merit in making a good story, the comics will without a doubt be the only place fans can go for good official renditions of the characters and potential narratives using them.
If you read the IDW Sonic Forces arc, theres an easter egg that confirms that the Freedom Fighters DO exist in that world. On the command center, theres a couple photos of Sally and Bunnie in their Archie pre-reboot look hanging on the wall. So have them appear is still possible but its up to Sega of course. As for why Amy shoudnt be a leader? Well...shes 12. Shes a kid and a very inexperienced one at that.
All the Freedom Fighters would be pretty cool to see again, but I think that they could somehow be worked into the games so that it would be fine to use them in the comics and cartoons. That's very unlikely though seeing as how the Freedom Fighters are all American made characters and fans of Sonic from anywhere other than America and maybe Europe wouldn't know much about them.
shadow: "a personality, what's that? why would you need a personality when you have Ë̶̢̛͎͈̺͚̟̳̗̹̣̝́̄̀̓͊̈̀͋͝͝͠D̶̢͕͔̫̝̺̗̟̬̳̪̟͉̙̏͐̔̊̋̈́̊̀͗̑̈́̒͘͝G̸̢̛̬̖̼̖̈̋͒̐Ḛ̸̡̖̳̫͛̂̐̅̋̾̎̇̂̆̚͜͝͝! "
I just finished playing the Sonic Forces game (currently going for a completionist run) and I had NO IDEA that the IDW comics that I've been collecting and reading for a while was based on that! I was confused as to why it started right after an eggman defeat but I brushed it off as "starting a little different". Thank you so much for this!
that was a very good video , how ever , there was a interesting article about sonic , which explain a lot about sonic fandom probably way more than any one think , it has a lot to say about classic era and modern era gamebabble.wordpress.com/2010/02/22/sonic-and-the-worst-fandom-ever/ this article has some sort of a bad title which is " sonic and worst fandom ever " but regardless of it , this article would give a good idea about sonic fandom
I want touch on my thoughts regarding the other characters, since this video and my comment on the last video you posted already says exactly how I feel about how much better Sonic, Knuckles, and Tails are portrayed within IDW comics. As for Amy, as much as I found Sally Acorn to be an amazing and badness character, I don't really agree with the thought that Amy is stealing her role so to speak, despite the obvious comparisons. I would argue that even in the Archie comics where both characters are present Amy acted similarly to how she does in the IDW comics. No, she wasn't necessarily the leader of the Freedom Fighters, but there are multiple times she'll jump in and take charge of a situation either providing backup to Sonic, Blaze, Knuckles, and even Sally herself. For example, in Sonic universe she travels with Knuckles to look for the pieces of the master emerald and was actually the more level headed out of the two, her stepping in to handle.......the emperor of the east......whatever his name was to save Monkey khan (think i spelled it right), and times she put away her own selfish desires to stay in a place or do a job that she needed to for the betterment of others. Long text aside, the traits Amy shows in the IDW comics aren't anything new and she has shown them before, just now she's in a leadership role so it's more noticeable i guess.
I’m so happy someone is bringing light to the comics. Not enough people talk about how they work with what Sonic Forces did and somehow makes it all work. They even made the Zeti bearable more recently and somehow made them essential and their inclusion make sense
I do remember, correct me if I'm wrong. In the Archie Comics, didn't Amy at one point even if it was very brief have a commander like role? I know she was trained by the best in the comics but I can't remember if Amy lead an Army before. I know Amy in the Archie comics became mature but eh starting to repeat myself lol
I just realized something about Sonic Forces that makes Classic Sonic and possibly even the Rookie obsolete. They had all of Team Chaotix that can blow up robots by simply singing right off the bat, and shortly after all of Team Dark who can stop time, and Team Sonic after they rescue Sonic and Tails comes back. They didn't need Classic Sonic or Rookie when they had basically the entire cast of Sonic Heroes and more. Just add the Chaos Emeralds back and Infinite and the rest of the robots and illusions are powerless. And even if we assume Team Blast moves wouldn't work, Espio is a Ninja with actual lethal weapons, and Silver can use telekinisis to hold people in place. Eggman's side was essentially dead right at the beginning of the game.
I agree with what you said on Knuckles, but what kind of bugs me about him that I don’t think anyone has addressed so far is that someone at IDW really seems to like drawing dumb faces on him, regardless of whether they fit the situation or not, the biggest culprit being that scene where he catches the Master Emerald. It’s such an important moment for him in this story and that stupid face just takes me right out of it. That would be like if in SA2, Shadow realized what Maria really wanted and they made him do that infamous face from the Archie comics that edge lord uses as his profile picture. That’s not even funny, it’s just really random. He’s also the only character they do this with, unlike in Mania Adventures where the odd faces are part of the style. Thing is, as you said, the writing on him is fine: He is supposed to be the guy who takes everything seriously even if it’s ridiculous, so why can’t he seem to go a single issue without making some ridiculous out of place facial expression? Is there a mandate about Knuckles having to at least look stupid once per issue? Is it some kind of inside joke I’m not getting?
Game Apologist Yeah, the writing on him is the best it’s been in years, so I take what I can get. It’s just such an odd artistic choice to do it for just this one character where it doesn’t even match the personality. I’ve actually been thinking about writing to the staff just to find out what’s up with that.
I've only played a few of the Sonic games (Sonic Heroes is the one I remember best, probably my first), but I've always wanted to get into the comics! The Archie comics were really daunting however, so I'm glad that IDW is now a thing that I can jump into. I'm enjoying these videos, and I appreciate that you're making them. Thanks man.
Passion for what you do goes a long way, as demonstrated in these comics and as pointed out in the failures of sonic forces. Man, its like of people treated a project with the passion, respect, and care it deserves, you attract the fans you want and keep them engaged and when you look at it as a cash cow, a chore to get out of the way, people will feel it and see it in the product.
1:20 Amy's thighs look thicker than usual.... Maybe that's just me......... Don't judge me, I'm just a Sonic fan, we all think about stuff like that at some point. Don't pretend like you're not the same.
@@Xx_SuperPenis_xX Sonic the Hedgehog was a game released for the Xbox 360 and Play Station 3 as the 15th anniversary Sonic game... it's no use, why bother typing this out over a joke.
I wish Sega would let Sonic be more expressive. Imo Sonic's personality is what makes him so much better than Mario, and I think they should build off of that instead of toning it down.
We just need a 3d sonic game that has a good story and gameplay that helps sonic back into the spotlight and they should let other characters and sonic have personality like take blaze for example they dont even talk about that character anymore and the character was good so was silver there is so much more potential that they don't use
Definitely guys. I was watching Sonic Unleashed cutscenes the other day and it was crazy how much Sonic seemed to be going through after Amy didn’t recognize him. I know it may not sound like much but it really is, especially compared to the modern Sonic from the most recent main game, Forces😑
@@funnysonicman exactly! In that cutscene in Unleashed I felt bad for Sonic! I wanted to hug him and tell him everything would be alright and it made me want to complete the game even more! When characters emote we feel for them. In Forces they built up all this tension saying Eggman's conquered everything, there's a war going on, Sonic's been imprisoned and TORTURED for MONTHS for god's sakes, and then when you find him he's as bright and as sunny as ever. All that tension fell flat on it's face because if our hero isn't the least bit concerned, why should we be?
Agreed
The funny part is in Mania when you look up as any character they have a different expression
Sonic’s is him looking curious
What ever happened to that
@@funnysonicman Agreed. Even though Unleashed has character changes or inconsistencies (tbf not all stories are perfect), at least it wasn't to the same range/magnitude as a game like Forces
In the context of Amy here, I really like how open she is, both to her own feelings, and to her acceptance of Sonic's goals. She caves easily because she understands that asking Sonic to settle down and fight with the resistance would seriously go against his own personal beliefs and sense of freedom, and trusts him to make the right judgement of his own abilities.
Sonic, in turn, offers the suggestion that she come with him, just as he did with tails. In this regard, we see that Sonic isn't just wanting to go off on his own. He wants the freedom to handle eggman in his own way and help people in the way that he knows best (by being the big fast), but he clearly cares about Amy and wants her company, just like he does with tails. It's a far cry from back when he used to run from her or treat her like a nuisance. Here's he takes her seriously enough to argue his point despite not really needing to, and even reciprocates her feelings, to a point (whatever form that takes, for him). It's a really neat dynamic, in my opinion.
" It's a far cry from back when he used to run from her or treat her like a nuisance. " The only reason he did that WAS because she was obsessively fangirl'ing over him. Every time she does something "lovey-dovey" in the issue #2 , Sonic instantly shoots her down. As soon as she gives up on "chasing" Sonic. He takes her more seriously.
You’ve realize a few things:
1. Not a lot of people will read it all.
2. Children will skip over ‘some’ important words.
3. And, there shouldn’t be more than 3 Composters In one sentence.
(Sorry If “composters” are spelled wrong.)
4. The periods placement aren’t that realistic. You could fit 3 periods into the sentence on your comment. Like. Run-on sentence.
5. SOME words were miss spelt. Or doesn’t make sense into the position that was given to that word.
@@Nathan-rb3qp Stop using videos and talk about your explanations are you so disabled that your hands cant type?
The dynamic idea is good but I still don’t ship soamy except the Boom! version because in Boom version Sonic and Amy are both flawed but likeable characters,the fact that they care and fight with each is almost perfect though it can get silly. I need to watch the full show to get into this.
@Marcus _ idk
Ngl, I kinda like this version of Amy. It makes some sense. She was serious in Forces too.
I find it weird how they made Tails a crybaby, but they made Amy grow as a character
@@Iam-cz1ot
It was an overreaction from Lost World Tails
I really hope they start to make Tails grow again in the next game
It’s probably not gonna happen unfortunately
@@Iam-cz1ot
They will overreact from Forces and bring back Lost World Tails
if they keep this up, Amy might even be better than Sally. Sally is unfortunately dead forever. If Amy can be quirky and cute while having leadership roles she's trying to grow into while toning down her worst traits, she'll be pretty awesome and finally a character I can enjoy. Too bad most of that personality seems to be from the comics and not the game, where she feels like she has very little personality.
It’s honestly impressive to see how Ian is able to not only make the story much more in-depth, and better than sonic forces (the game), but to also make the characters much more than 1-dimensional. If SEGA ever want to see a “Sonic Forces 2”, they need to take notes off of this comic to be successful.
@@DanieleMulas-up7np He has a point. While these comics aren't the most in depth thing out there, he only said that the comics were better and more in-depth than Forces; which you have to agree wasn't a high bar to begin with. I can't begin to label significant character traits to anyone in forces without looking at past games, meanwhile in the comics, the other characters seem to actually do things other than wait on Sonic to solve everything.
@@DanieleMulas-up7np Ian did have to essentially reestablish these characters. And dfter the arc involving Eggman returning, it was to be expected they'd try something new.
Even if you don't agree with what's being done in the story currently, you have to commend that Ian was able to make something a lot of fans are happy with out of the mess that was Sonic Forces' plot.
@@Nathan-rb3qp I have to say that's objectively false.
I don’t think we will ever get a Forces 2 due to the horribly reception the original got.
I don't trust Amy, she is the only one who wears clothes
I never trust ANYONE who wears clothes.
I always knew Charmy was a little traitor all along
No wonder Sonic and Blaze fight in Rush!
Clothes are overrated
Deyvan Salez no
My favorite part of the IDW run right now is Flynn’s portrayal of Silver. As a Silver fan, I love what he’s doing with Silver and how he works knowledge of the future into the plot. Silver’s also just an adorable dork throughout the entire run, which I love, too.
Nah
@@xnortheast1106 nah
@@tanyaharmon6739 nah
@@handlename88 nah
@@tanyaharmon6739 nah
Catchphrase:
"Welcome to Sonic Speed Reading where we speed through reading"
Maybe "Welcome to Sonic Speed Reading where we read through this speedy quest"
@@zooooooooom I like that. 👌👍
“Welcome to sonic speed reading, where we do intensive, life threatening amounts of speed while reading”
Perfect.
100% agree. I'm glad you addressed the Sally Vs Amy debate. The two handle leadership completely differently.
Bro I didn’t know it was a thing until now lmao lol
I think personally Amy has always had that leader/commander side to her but Sega hasn't always presented it in the games. But Sonic Heroes is a good example, I think it also has to do with Amy's empathetic side and how she's a very understanding character. She's willing to help others out. Because of this I wouldn't necessarily say Amy has replaced Sally's role as some say, but I can understand the frustration. I've never really been familiar with the freedom fighters but I know unlike Amy, Sally has consistently been represented as a leader, hell she's a princess. But like you said in the video Amy and Sally will handle it differently, and I agree, they're different in both their written personalities and how they handle their roles as leaders.
How sonic forces portrayed tails was basically a mess.
He acts as if he can do nothing to help and says sonic help me if I'm sure
Tails beat chaos 2 and has helped best eggmans empire Out of Angel island.
Now he's back to relying on sonic as if he hasn't beaten things stronger than that fake chaos.
These guys did a way better job with forces than sega.
Doesn't help the fact that these guys worked on the notoriously violent happy tree friends.
hello edge lord! how you fell the way shadow was portraied in the comics? do you like or u think it shadow have come back to pre 06 status as "edge over anything"
THEY MADE HAPPY TREE FRIENDS?!
@@zooooooooom no the writers of the games did.
@@Mr.06_ Yeah, that's what I meant
@@zooooooooom yes
I feel like Sonic Team should really take notes on how Ian handles the Sonic cast, both with the IDW comics and the Archie comics that came before it.
I feel sonic team should pay Ian or any of the IDW writers for a script to their next game. I'd buy a squel to forces if Ian handled the writing.
@@Mysticgamer the gameplay would also have to be good tho.
This aged perfectly
Thank God he is going to write the next game
This aged so perfectly
"sOnIc hElP mE"
- Tails 2017
Also I'm glad that tails in the Idw comics he has a personality in comics because he is like sonic adventure 1-2,heros,sonic 2,3,tails adventure thank you sonic writers your doing great.
Honestly, they should have just replaced Tails’ voice actor with Luigi screaming *”Hyyyyiiiiiaaaaeeeelp!”*
@@rainpooper7088 Sonic, wherever you are. *HEEELLLLLLPPPP*
"Sooooooonic! Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp! Help me, Sonic!"
@@masterbison8957 lol
Oh, and it's "sOnIc... pleeeeeeeeeeeez..." now. Not that Tails is the only character who has regressed, mind you.
Eggman:"Metal Sonic, kill for daddy!" Oh, so you're his "daddy" and he's your little bitch? Cause the first story arc gave me the impression that they'd actually let him be something more than Eggman's mindless puppet for once. And i was never fond of how they've been portraying Knuckles and Shadow from the very beginning.
I know it was just a side point in the video, but honestly the part about them focusing on how characters are portrayed is an interesting one. The fact that Sonic can't cry makes me upset, because it limits his character and makes him feel less believable as a character. SEGA did this in the Archie comics as well, there are some comparisons between story boarding and final comic strip that shows Sonic's emotions being heavily toned down. I know you'll get to it with another video, but Shadow is the best example of that and is a pretty big insult to his origins. It feel that they want to make Sonic appeal to everyone by stripping down characters and make them as strait forward as possible, but in the process destroying that character's identity.
This was a great video and I can't wait for the next!
I wholeheartedly agree, Sonic actually having a character is what made him stand out against his contemporaries at the time-- but now we're in an era where games are getting closer and closer to movies with realized characters. Just having some 'tude isn't gonna fly.
@@beardo5468 As said in the video, Sonic is a corporate mascot first and a character second as far as Sega are concerned. If Sonic looks weak, then it makes Sega look weak....by Sega logic.
It's the nature of the business
While I do like Tails' characterizing, there's some notes to believe the Mandated were Flynn-made, not Sega-made.
A while ago i read that Flynn had planned a better thing about shadow, but SEGA wanted shadow to be the stubborn, filled with toxic pride, vegeta-esque guy.
@@amesstarline5482 Source?
I wish the characterization was this good in the games, it would be so fun
Instead of “It’s been gEnErAtIoNs since I’ve seen you buddy buddy!” Thanks anyway Ian Flynn👏
Wasn't tails being his own hero part of his theme in adventure
"Gotta be strong wanna be like him"
MR.NuclearBlade 07 well I’m guessing the writers for sonic forces didn’t remember that.
Also, he defeats a giant spider at the end of his story and is like, “Wow, I’m mister cool strong man!”
And his theme in SA2.
Yes and no. Yes in that this WAS his character arc in Adventure, and how his gameplay operated in Adventure 2. The anti-precision platforming of Heroes was also semi-critical in this portrayal, because Tails' flight was the thing that made his character archetype distinct within the Speed/Flight/Power core of the game.
But, well, after Heroes the games went pretty head-strong into Sonic as the focus. I wouldn't be above betting the entirety of my "Corona Stimulus Check" that Sonic Unleashed wouldn't have been as controversial if the Were-hog stages were instead treated as "Knuckles stages". Sonic Colors gave Sonic special temporary abilities, when you know full-well that other characters are known for doing those types of things...but fuck that, right? Fuck anyone who's not Sonic, because Sonic is Sonic!
@@onijester56 Very true, I really hate that Sonic Team makes all these friends for sonic, then don't do anything with them. If they refined the characters gameplay and gave characters important things to do the games could be even better.
6:27
Seems Tails is picking up on some of that cockiness from Sonic, cute. It reminds me if the subtle things like in the Advance titles where he tries to copy Sonic's poses and fails (until Advance 3 iirc, he's surprised that he finally poses right). Something similar happens in the OVA when they meet Metal Robotnik.
Man, it's things like this why I've always fucking loved the Sonic series. It's always expressive, even in subtlety.
It's why he's more sassy in the games since Lost World.
I think, for knuckles, the word you’re looking for is “motivation.” Knuckles entire motivation is protecting the master Emerald.
I'd say it's his apart of his family, culture, and ancestry. His bloodline is intrinsically tied to the Master Emerald and Angel Island to the point where he can physically feel if they are disturbed. If it wasn't for Knuckles' isolation on Angel Island then he wouldn't be as gullible, overly serious, or even probably as good of a treasure hunter. I Knuckles could put a leash on Angel Island and bring it with him, he would.
Chocov 123 Those too.
@@MDWolfe-ks5fu Yours was also good. 👍
Honestly, the IDW comics do a pretty good job at portraying these characters, even with the limits Sega puts on them (like shadow...who’s probably the most eeghh character unfortunately :[ ) like .i genuinely felt hurt when a handful of the characters became zombots in this arc, my gosh.
Agreed... both on how Ian handles it and how Shadow was portrayed.
Shadow to me is in similar case to batman in the sonic series than a simple vegeta character. They are both heroes in their own right but does things their way. they both have a terrible past that bring them to what they are today, and despite being the big loner, he has a family of his own after losing his first one [Rouge and Omega]. In truth, if they kept the inhibitor rings idea, if they focus on that core idea for both the comics and games instead of making him a rival, I would like Shadow more. [In truth, I feel like that's what Ian was aiming for with his first introduction in the IDW series, but I guessed SEGA wanted a different approach].
Who knows, maybe SEGA will allow it, but we will have to wait and see.
Friendship ended with Cybershell. Now Game Apologist is my best friend.
Cybershell ain’t coming back
sadly
@@aortaplatinum Packed his bags and Went
Agreed. Game Apologist is:
1. More consistent
2. Keeps promises and doesn't steal
3 (This one's important). Doesn't misuse the word "autistic"
@@not7170 Never say Never
Tails and Amy are written perfect in IDW, I still miss the Freedom Fighters but I’m ok with it, Knuckles I normally have much problem
Wish Amy's temper and Tails fear of loud noises were more prominent. Perhaps later on in the series.
I miss Scourge and Fiona
@@wizrad2281 That's cool.
Rodrick Young no
Tho cant say that for shadow tho-
I kind of wish that the writing team from the comics and Sonic team can just come together and make a game from the comics. Or at least have the future games be based off the comic series.
That and include fans who truly feel how the characters/lore should be written.
@@paperluigi6132 Fans have too many contradicting opinions. Sega/Sonic Team should only bring on proffesionals and people who have proven themselves capable of participating in a team project and sacrificing their ability to have their ideas implemented from time to time.
For me personally, my love for the IDW comics ultimately boils down to the near excellent characterization for the characters, as Sonic Forces did such a poor job at portraying almost every character in the game.
Sonic is cool and cocky, but knows when the situation needs to be taken seriously. Tails doesn’t feel like a sidekick and feels more like a partner to Sonic and crew. IDW even managed to make me start liking Silver, a character who I wasn’t even all that fond of to begin with. Everyone feels like a competent hero in their own right that makes up a Resistance, rather than just a back up team for Sonic while he handles the main boss.
I remember that sonic adventure 2 when Eggman going to send sonic to space to blow up sonic tell tails to stand up when he fall. He take he place
Oh, I can't wait to watch this. Sadly I have homework to do, but mark my words, I WILL return.
Good luck soldier
I'm baack. Excellent video as always.
And this is why I'm going to say this for the millionth time:
REPLACE PONTAC AND GRAFF WITH IAN FLYNN
It happened.
I can't help but laugh and smile with joy as I read the comments on this video. The personalities of Sonic, Tails, Amy and Knuckles is all based off the Adventure games, an era of Sonic, SEGA wishes to ignore for inspiration for some reason.
Ian Flynn is definitely one of the best writers for the Sonic comics.
Thats because Sega would actually have to admit this to the adventure era and it's fans;
"You couldn't live with your own mistakes, where did that bring you?, back to me!".
Not even the blessings of Ian Flynn's "make characters good" can fix Shadow, I hate what Shadow has become, I miss the "I will protect earth and my team" in SA2 and 06 and not "friends are weak" or "I don't need anyone" in Boom and TSR
To be frank, I sorta rolled my eyes with Shadow and kept going forward. That said, it DOES need to be addressed, and I hope they handle this a little better going forward. Certainly wont be the last time we see Shadow.
I don't think the way Shadow was portrayed was Flynn's fault. Ever since Sonic Boom, Sega has been pushing the idea that Shadow is esentially Vegeta and will seek any opportunity to antagonize Sonic... Logic and character development be dammned.
Strider Zvezda yeah, Sega has been writing Shadow like this since Sonic Boom
I feel like after 06, they made Shadow’s character way too much like Vegeta..Sure, Shadow may not be a very cheery fella but he doesn’t need to become a Vegeta clone lol. I like how they portrayed him in 06. He felt like a dark hero that didn’t waste time and got to the point, but he didn’t do it alone.
Just another stupid retcon, remember when Shadow swore to always honour Maria's last wish to protect the earth?
However thanks to Sega forcing the two worlds concept into canon, the "Earth" is consider the human world while Sonic and Co come from a different world in a different dimension (despite the lore of the adventure games as well as unleashed saying otherwise).
So either Shadow broke his oath to Maria OR Sega have erased Shadow's character development in the adventure era? (either option is stupid considering SA2, Heroes and Shadow's own game all took place in IDWs continuity).
And notice we've got planet Wisp and the Earth yet neither Sonic nor Blaze's world's are given names?
I personally do not understand where this "Amy is a Sally clone" argument comes from other than a misplaced sentiment of frustration from SatAM/Archie fans... and I say misplaced, because Sega nor Sonic Team are at fault since Amy was always meant to be the lead female character, while Sally is more the product of a spinoff cartoon and hardly the important part of the franchise many people say she is, especially considering that the only reason she and the FF's were kept around was because of the Archie staff rather than a direct instruction from Sega.
Other than both being leaders in their respective universes, that's pretty much where the similarities end. Sally is a leader because she comes from a royal family and therefore is a figure of authority whom others have to follow. In contrast, Amy's leadership come from her personality and charisma, with others following her lead because they choose to.
I also disagree with the idea that Amy's leadership is something new brought up out of nowhere. In Sonic Heroes, we see her lead her own team on a rescue mission. This was essentially the next logical step in her character development because previously in SA1, we see Amy grown into a heroine by herself and helping a helpless bird. In Heroes, she now helps characters who much like her, had no experience and guides them throughout their adventure, always keeping their morale, believing in them and never letting them give up whenever they felt scared or their hope faltered. And it's not only in Heroes, but also the comics and cartoons were Amy displays sparks of being a natural born hero... Even in the second issue of Archies' Sonic Megadrive, after Sonic decides to go solo, we see how Knuckles makes an attempt to lead that does not result well for poor Tails, while Amy succeeds because she encourages team work and has a way to bring people together.
Another argument I've seen is the issue of her being too young and no mature enough... And while that is certainly true, personally I don't think that maturity matters because being a leader is a question of attitude, not maturity. An example of this is John Connor in Terminator 2, who despite being around the same age as Amy, also displays leadership qualities despite his age and even flaws (since he is a delinquent kid), being one of the more important scenes the one where Sarah tries to smash the CPU of the good Terminator, which John stops her from doing and makes Sarah realize that she is holding him back from becoming the leader humanity will need when she refuses to trust his judgement.
Of course, Amy can't do everything on her own, and it's here were her rriends and the other characters come into play. In the IDW comic, we even see some like Blaze who offers advise and input on her plans, like when they went to liberate Angel Island.
IMO, Amy is not a Sally clone nor a fill-in. She is her own character and earned the role on nothing but her very own merit. To say otherwise is to brush off all the development invested in Amy, which is in line with one of the key traits of her persobality: having a strong desire to help others. Her only reason to take on the role is not because of personal recognition, fame or duty... It's the people in need. This is why she politely refused Sonic's invitation to join his adventures in IDW#2 and why she formed the Restoration to help people rebuild their world after Knuckles literally quit out of boredom and without even bothering to tell her.
YES. THANK U. UR ABSOLUTELY RIGHT AND IM MORE THAN HAPPY WITH THIS ESSAY. AMAZING BROSKI!!
THANK YOU!
Somebody have to say it
So true
Well put. 😁👍
I really like that now that Amy’s grown and matured past “girl with crush” she actually has a lot more chemistry with Sonic and plays off him well, it’s cute, and it’s fun
Loved the points addressed in this vid. You pretty much nailed everything on the head. The way characters were handled and portrayed in Forces makes me wonder how Ian Flynn would handle a certain reality-bending Jackal and I cannot be anymore excited for it.
I'm 90% sure that Sonic Team won't let anyone other than themselves touch Infinite with a ten foot pole after Forces release.
Riolan I... believe he wrote the prequel comic “Rise of Infinite”? Not much was able to be done since it was a short, but I’d like to see more of how Ian would handle Infinite.
@@thekagawalife2081since Infinite isn't allowed to be used in the comics, that ain't gonna happen.
As opposed to Sally specifically, I always felt Amy was just having her Sonic Boom personality bleed into the main continuity. Regardless of how that series faired, Amy was certainly portrayed as a leader type there so seeing it in the comics doesn't seem too out of left field.
sonicsaiyan07
Boom Amy was also criticized for being too much like Sally, especially in the Boom Archie comics where she’s the team leader for no reason and acts like a bitchier version of Sally with literally none of that cute and mildly goofy charm and desire to help people because it’s the right thing to do that Amy’s character used to be all about. IDW does keep that part of her character intact though, so it’s fine by me.
I have never read a single Archie Sonic comic and got in only with IDW. From all the heartache the Archie fans seem to have with the lost characters, I'm almost glad I missed out on that whole era. I am able to enjoy the IDW comics to the fullest I feel. I do not in any way say this to diss the Archie fans. They had their whole epic journey and honestly I am bummed I missed out on all that.
Watsobe Me too. I ended up binging the Archie comics starting from Issue 160 (that was when Ian Flynn took over for writing), and when I was finished, I felt...very empty. Very sorry.
It’s definitely worth a read, at least from Issue 160 onwards.
SEGA really should hire Ian Flynn for the writing of the future games. IDW is amazing. Both the characters (except Shadow) and the story telling is great
your wish came true
@@Mermain123 I was just Abt to say that
Tails be getting that Super Gohan treatment.
If you know what I’m Saiyan.
yOu sPeLt sAyiNg WrOnG!!111!!
More speed reading means more of me hearing Nicks nice voice rambling on about a bunch of fast animals and jewelry. Keep up the great work man!
I gotta say that i love how the comics give the characters some justice after years of being misstreated, especially for Tails, Knuckles and Amy.
“Leaked out of her”
Yikes. 😂
Whatever, fine, Nick, I’m buying all of them.
That's what she said
What IDW did with Amy was the best thing to happen to her since Sonic Adventure. Change my mind.
Already watched this on patron. Still came here to boost your numbers. Keep at it guy!
God, it's incredible how well you know this series. It's respectable, your the kid in the class who everybody asks for lore and you give them everything and more.
God damn it's nice to know someone cares about all of Sonic and not just classic, cartoon, or modern Sonic, but Sonic The Hedgehog in general.
The Sonic Forces comics were probably the only Sonic comic series I've enjoyed, ever. The original Archie comics series was a convoluted mess with various moments of questionable art.
I liked your analysis on Sonic not being able to show emotions other than his "raddy attitude". Sonic is a -passive- flat protagonist, like Goku. He doesn't really change, other characters around him change because of his actions, and that is ok.
Amy is probably my favorite character in this Sonic Forces comics. She is quirky, she is independent and not obsessed with Sonic. They actually gave her a personality. I honestly don't understand why readers have issues with that, when it improves her character by 200%.
Edit: thanks Jamal Hartley for correcting me on the nomenclature.
I think you mean he's a flat character. Passive would indicate that Sonic only acts when threats affect him personally. He's very much an active character. Seeing as Goku kinda sort almost killed a bunch of universes with the tournament power I'd say he's pretty active too. Ichigo from Bleach is a perfect example of a passive character/protagonist.
@@jamalhartley5863 yes, thank you! I meant flat protagonist, my mistake. But what I meant is that Sonic and Goku are protagonists with "flat character arcs". Unlike other types of characters, such as those with "positive character arcs", which revolves around "the lie the character believes" (like Shadow and Vegeta), the flat character arc is based on "the truth the character believes".
Both Sonic and Goku are easygoing characters that essentially are the same in terms of personality and don't go through massive changes; Sonic is defined by his free spirit and love for speed, while Goku is defined by trying to always become a better fighter and meet stronger opponents. They overcome their challenges by following those beliefs, and they don't change, but characters around them do: both Shadow and Vegeta eventually become allies to Sonic and Goku, respectively, after their interactions with said characters. They go through their character arcs and change their beliefs after meeting the protagonists.
Thank you for your input on Ichigo, that was a good point.
I really like how these characters were handled in the comics. In my opinion it’s how the three should be written form now on.
My stance on the Sally/Amy issue of the comics doesn’t have anything to do with who Sonic should date. I couldn’t care less about Sonic’s love life honestly. What my main issue came down to was that for the longest time I felt Amy was basically written as a Sally clone which I felt did a disservice to her character. The things I’ve always found charming about her character are the goofier things about her like her crush on Sonic or massive temper (neither elevated to the ridiculous levels of some games though) and I felt that the comics stripped that away from her in trying to fill the hole Sally left behind and it messed up what I liked about Amy so much.
Granted, on re-reading I did notice some of her old personality like her entire debut issue and certain moments like wondering where Shadow went on Angel Island or getting excited at Sonic carrying her. But I overall came for the realization that, while she was taking on a Sally role, her personality shift was to that of Sonic Boom Amy rather than maintaining what the games and older cartoons had done. And again, I’ve never liked that shift because I feel it erases the more erratic aspects of her personality. I do like how she’s written in the comic and she has a lot of great moments, but sometimes I feel her character and arcs are restricted by her position as leader of the resistance.
Sally isn’t even my favorite Freedom Fighter by the way, it’s Rotor. And no one has really “replaced” him in IDW yet as an older friend of Tails who is just as much of a genius as him.
Also, fun fact to bring up for this debate: I’m pretty sure some manuals for Sonic CD referred to Amy as Sally Acorn. So that’s pretty funny with this new context.
I agree, for the most part. I don't know about the Boom part though because Amy definitely kept her temper in that incarnation, she was even a complete jerk sometimes. Also I do believe that Amy was toned down because of how much hate she has gotten for being herself over the years. She was probably given the commander role because know other popular characters could fill that role besides Tails, Blaze, Silver, Rouge, or Vector and none of them could sustain a leadership role for that long because the live somewhere completely different, are too inexperienced, or have other people they have to look after. Also I heard some people getting mad because they thought Tangle was going to be Sally (reminds me of the whole people thinking that Sticks the Badger was actually Marine the Raccoon).
@@SuperBlueGamer9000 I like her canon/mainline personality more, especially when she acted more mature during the 1998-2009 era. I still think that Cindy Robinson is a very talented voice actress and I think she has a good Amy voice in stuff like Lego Dimensions, I just like Jennifer Douillard and Lisa Ortiz's voices/voice directors much more. I understand where you're coming from though.
Super Blue Gamer 9000 they basically did. That’s my problem. I miss the more goofy Amy who had the crush but still did what was right.
They referred to Amy as Sally Acorn in the CD manual because it was a poor attempt at trying to promote the TV show at the time.
@@YouluC Or a case of bad name adaptation.
I agree with you on Knuckles being a fighter, I don't see him as this big leader of a resistance force. If you want Knuckles to lead a team have him lead the chaotix like in the previous comics. You could have it that they're this "hit them hard and hit them fast", you call us to do the suicide mission or need the extra muscle type team sort of like The Wreckers from the Transformers franchise.
Man that would have been an awesome interpretation
Knuckles should've took Silver and Espio's place as the face of the resistance and the main heroes inspiring the animal people. The leader should have been Amy (she's good at persuading people and she has been a team leader multiple times), Tails (he is a genius with a lot of motivation to stop the Eggman Empire), Silver (he has survived living in an apocalypse and has an unshakable drive to see a world of peace), Rouge (technically the leader of Team Dark and is extremely cunning and a great tactition who probably has military training), or Vector (is an experience leader and someone who has a strong preference that respects attention).
@@GameApologist Yeah and if they wanted they could add Mighty and Ray back and have them be apart of Knuckle's Chaotix team like in the comics.
@@chocov1233 Problem is Espio is probably more fit for a face of the resistance/leader role. The guy's a literal fuckin' ninja. Knuckles is just some hermit who guards a shiny gem on a floating island.
@@diddlypoop Who has a presence of authority, was technically the og leader of the Chaotix, and can destroy parts of buildings and whole boulders with one punch.
NGL, when the IDW comics were first announce to take place right after Forces, I wasn't very happy. But then I found out Flynn was working on it, and gave it a chance. I've been enjoying IDW's run ever since.
All i'm saying is that tails went full fightclub and they should have leaned into it
If Tails reunited with the group and it turned out classic Sonic was fake the whole time? Forces would be in my top 5 games of all time.
@@GameApologist What if he was never there and the rest of them went along with it for his sake since they had more pressing matters to worry about?
Game Apologist I LOVE this idea! I wish Forces would have done something like this, but SEGA never would have allowed it :(
These are the kind of writers we need on the Sonic games. They actually know how to tell are cohesive story. And honestly I like how Amy had been doing as leader, though I really wished they brought Sally in to the main series.
Hey they finally fixed Tails!
If only the games did that..
Screw fixing Tails writing, I just want Tails to be playable in open 3D stages with gameplay like Adventure 1. 😂
@@chocov1233 same..
@@chocov1233 That would fix Tails tho then because he would be fighting.
Next Sonic game: We're going to make Tails useless again so Sonic will have the full spotlight again!
@Dragon Del Sur I hope not, but if they do I don't wanna play more Sonic games anymore
Ian Flynn is such a blessing for the Sonic series, especially after having to pick up after Ken Penders's mess
I’m interested on your opinion on Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood. Yeah the gameplay, music, graphics, etc aren’t great. But the story in that game is probably the cleanest attempt to join the game story and archie’s story together. With that backlash that came from that game I was surprised when SEGA said that Forces was taking inspiration from the comics.
Anyways, I’d love to see a video of you discussing your opinion of Chronicles’ story.
Same. I loved Shade as a character and I think the Nocturnus clan had a great potential, but because of Penders's lawsuits we'll prebably never see them again. Fuck Penders.
as a person who's only aware of the characters through the games I thought that Amy would have been a better choice as leader of the Resistance from the start.
The Shadow episode is going to be interesting isn't it.
Oh yes.
Indeed it was.
5:54 “He needs to be his own hero”
SEGA said this for the millionth time now, NOW JUST KEEP THAT FREAKING NARRATIVE.
Knuckles isn't a commander or a fighter. He's a guardian. He just left the master emerald alone for Eggman to steal it.
Unfortunately for some reason writers (at least in recent years) aren't smart enough to involve Knux in the plot without screwing up his role as guardian.
They even make him leave the Master Emerald unguarded to continue the trend of making him look overly incompetent/dense OR pretend the Master Emerald/Angel Island don't exist even though its an intrinsic part of Knux's character just like Shadow's history with the ARK (the games actually did this for roughly a decade post 06)
Hey man. Don’t fret on the video or how you edit it. Everything you say is awesome and makes super sense. So just roll with man. Your voice is like some master craft golden spitfire . So it works. Keep up the good work brotha!
15:29 "Unlike Sonic, I don't chuckle."
Now that line makes sense.
On Friday, February 21, 2020, Sonic Team uploaded a video called “The Brief History of Sonic the Hedgehog 101” on Sonic Channel, their official website. In the latter part of that video, Sonic Team stated that Amy Rose is “an independent hedgehog with a strong sense of justice.” Sonic Team confirmed that Amy’s character growth and maturity, as clearly seen in the IDW Sonic comic series, are 100% canon. Therefore, Amy is not a carbon-copy or Mary-Sue of Sally Acorn as so many Archie Sonic and SatAM die-hards want to falsely accuse Amy to be all because they’re upset that Sally Acorn isn’t in IDW Sonic as the leader or as the lead female protagonist which Amy always was in the main Sonic universe. The head of Sonic Team, Takashi Iizuka himself stated that IDW Sonic is the canon continuation of Sonic Forces and Sonic Team, unlike with Archie Sonic, supports IDW Sonic, especially since SEGA has more control and influence over the Sonic comics this time around.
Also, Sally and the Freedom Fighters aren’t canon to any of the Sonic video games produced by Sonic Team and SEGA of Japan. No offense but Sally and the Freedom Fighters are irrelevant to the canon video games and IDW Sonic won’t reference anything from Archie Sonic or from SatAM as SEGA wants the new Sonic comics to stay true to the canon modern Sonic video games. Also, Sonic Spinball and Sonic Mean Bean Machine aren’t canon, they were just non-canon spin-offs and Ian Flynn himself in a Bumblekast stated that those two games don’t count as canon. SEGA of Japan don’t want the Freedom Fighters because they don’t fit with their vision of Sonic and SatAM doesn’t advertise Sonic Team’s game characters or video games.
Obviously their Canon doesn't mean much when it comes to movies at least...
You know, there's a part of me that would really like to see a new Sonic game that take the visuals in a new direction and tries to capture a sort of cell shaded approach that looks something along the lines of the comics. Not sure if anyone else had felt this way but I've felt like a part of my inability to connect with the charactrrs in recent Sonic games comes as much from the stagnant and kind of uninteresting art direction as much as the writing. I almost feel like the character designs are almost trapped inside the models they're stuck in and I'd love to see it taken in a slightly different direction
It's a major critique and one a lot of folks are justified in vocalizing. The series needs an injection of style
@@GameApologist Either way. I'm interested to see what they've got up their sleeves next. If they can nail that gameplay and style down we're good but I'm still really hoping for the day they decide to really run wild with the story and do something new and exciting for the characters! They would probably do well to take some notes from Flynn but I know that's not generally how business runs
I feel like, as diverse as fans needs and wants may be, everyone has a morbid curiosity/genuine hope when it comes to each new release. They are always SO close to nailing things.
So something like the first Sonic riders' cutscene ?
Wayneisboss
Yeah, the current models look pretty bland to be honest. Even Rise of Lyric had better character animation than Forces and Colors.
YES! Love this video mate, i feel like your comfortably filling in a gap in the Sonic the Hedgehog video scene once occupied by Cybershell with the detailed analysis of the comics, keep it up!
I really hope to see Whisper and Tangle become a part of future games, as well as to see Blaze return.
It'd also help if the current voice cast from Colors onwards is being replaced anyways.
Ultimately though, the flanderization and misunderstanding of Tails and Knuckles in the games, especially in Forces, has gotten me to a boiling point with the franchise and I don't see myself bothering with future titles if Sega/Sonic Team doesn't get their writing together soon
Same, it all started with them getting screwed out of their super forms in Heroes and it all slowly went downhill from there...
Funny how Sega scrapped the Hyper forms for being "too DBZ" yet have made it so that only the male hedgehogs can go super with the chaos emeralds in the "modern" era (similar to how only saiyans can go "super") and insist on writing Shadow as a bootleg diet-Vegeta, the hypocrisy is hilarious!
Flynn needs to get hired into sonic team as the main writer, especially for the characters.
Yeah I was kinda disappointed when Shadow got **SPOILERS FOR RECENT ARC**. He’s always been egotistical but that was just pure stupidity.
It really shows how little Sega/Sonic Team get their characters now and it’s a shame because Ian’s original version of that scene was miles better than what we got
*I ‘ M T H E C O O L E S T*
Spoil me
He thought he was immune because one of his abilities is being immune to all diseases because he is the ultimate lifeform and he was created to be a biological super alien government weapon hedgehog and as a way to research a cure for the illness that Maria Robotnik had.
Chocov 123 That stuff about Maria’s disease isn’t canon anymore (I don’t even think it ever was). Even still, Shadow was clearly being engulfed by the metal virus and he didn’t even try to start running it off like Sonic. I know he was surrounded by tons of Zombots but he can freaking fly with his shoes. He should’ve been able to see that the virus was overtaking him and should’ve begun doing what Sonic had been doing for awhile now.
I met Ian Flynn at a convention, he had no lineup and asked for no money for an autograph... i bought the first collection (issues 1-4)and immediately loved what he did with Tails.... the next day i personally tanked him for doing right by my favorite character, bought a couple more issues and have been showing sonic fans who honestly.... were like me completely unaware of its existence.... if the first time i heard of the comic was by seeing a booth with Ian Flynn himself selling the thing.... anyway i hope your video gives the comic much needed attention
I love this new Amy and I don't think she stole Sally'a personality.
Fun Fact: My art was featured in comic #5, It's the only black and white one.
WHAT! Did they publish your fan art?!
Yeah! It was a really cool experience
OMEGA omgggg I’m so proud of u!!!!!
The comic is Great!
But I had a little problem, Why is shadow edgy? This is his 'shadow the hedgehog' game personality, his original (SA2) personality is the best and he isn't edgy there.
Debut Shadow was the best Shadow. I hate it that SEGA applies the "edgy" character to Shadow, instead of the heroic, humble, loyal, and sassy Shadow
@@trizilitz3201 Even the comic says it out loud and called shadow an "anti-hero" and I am disappointed, don't get me wrong, this comic is awesome, but them getting shadow's personality wrong bothered me a lot.
He's not edgy per say, but he is definitely a cool dark counterpart type character.
@@trizilitz3201 Hey, he wasn't that bad in Heroes, 06, Black Knight, or even some parts of Shadow the Hedgehog. Also besides some voice lines and that one scene with pre-mask Infinite, he wasn't to bad in Forces. Everyone is conflating Dark/Neutral Shadow from his game and Boom Shadow with game Shadow, he hasn't been the same since 2003 but that doesn't mean that he's horrible.
@@lordkooner He is an anti-hero, he is friends with a "former" thief/criminal and a blood-thirsty killing machine robot. Not to mention he goes on spec-op missions for a government agency, where he might have to presumably kill or injure people. Also he straight up was going to let everyone die on the planet and no good deeds are going to stop that from always being something held against him.
If only Roger could voice THIS Sonic. Let him realize his full potential as Sonic.
Roger the hedgehog
Tbh I think he makes Sonic act just like he does in the comics. Personality wise
My first thought when making a custom character in Sonic Forces was trying to recreate one of the Freedom Fighters. It was always my dream to see Sally in a game. Like you said, they're important characters, but even as an optimist I know that won't ever (officially) happen.
RIP Sally and crew. You deserve better.
Sonic forces was a mixed bag imo but the comics I haven't read in a couple years
Thou I was very upset with the earlier position of some characters in Forces and this comic a while back but I've come to expect what's going on with it and like some of the narrative overtime.
That's for addressing your thoughts while staying positive to the previous continuity of the comics and it's characters(Archie) but you have a nack for that kind of thing and I thank you.
I read the IDW comics without knowing much about the games or the Archie comics, so it was very interesting to see your take on it. Im exited to see more of this!
I couldn't get past the 3rd level of forces. (The cut-scenes were long and the gameplay controls felt so restricting.) So, hopefully the comic does something good with the storyline.
Honestly the comic has very little to do with Forces aside from the fact that it takes place after it. Even then the only important details are that the characters formed a resistance and eggman built a giant robot that was destroyed by Sonic, Fat Sonic, and Custom Sonic.
I've known about this forever and it drives me crazy that I haven't heard anyone talk about it. In the Sonic Forces prequel comic "Looming Shadow" one page has 2 pictures of Sally Acorn, one next to Knuckles and another by herself. Those are canon so some version of Sally exists in the main canon.
Is there a link to it? Just curious
@@superhedgehog6447 czcams.com/video/b-1AAkPZhLY/video.html
If you go to 1:05 in this video you'll see her. Considering this context this means that at least Knuckles and Rouge know her
It was just a homage.
Yeah, they'll probably never show her in the games or anything but it's cool to think that she is out there somewhere, like Mighty and Ray for instance
And this is why Flynn should write for the games 💁🏼♀️
I'm also a massive fan of Ian Flynn (having gotten into the Sonic comics through the 2010s book releases.) When I think of Sonic characters, I tend to think of how he portrayed them. With nuance. Finding depth where others might scoff at the notion.
His job was also a dream job of mine when I was younger. I think it's safe to say that his work had quite an impact on me as an aspiring storyteller and artist.
I also read the Sonic Archives series, and have a lot of nostalgia for the original, Pre-Adventure run, but after that... yeah, it's hit-and-miss. Flynn's the one who figured out how to do Modern Sonic in comics. Penders... didn't.
So yeah, this is a long ramble essentially to say... thank you, Ian Flynn and crew, for saving the comic. And thank you SEGA/IDW for keeping them on for this one. Very excited for the future.
1:02 I almost thought you were gonna say "because Ian does...what Sega Don't" lol
I like to think that the mandates mean that Sonic can’t get excessively upset or something to that degree. And in Sonic Jam, he has a character bio that has tears as his dislikes. I’m probably looking too deep into this and the mandates still suck
I love the IDW comics! The only thing I don't like about them is Shadow's portrayal and the fact that Infinite is nowhere to be found. I hate how Sega micro-manages the comics 😒
It's a double-edged sword, even though it sucks from time to time, if Sega didn't impose any control over the comics then some writers could make this series go over the deep end like Archie did sometimes, and that isn't good for anyone's image.
@@chocov1233 yeah, considering the whole Penders fiasco I can understand that they would want more control over the comics.
The what was shadow og protryal in the first place
Sonic Forces having a lot of potential is an understatement, let me fix it for you, Sonic Forces in it's entirety, is misse potential. Great ideas, nonexistant execution, even Infinite was botched, I hope that if he comes back in a game, they need to rework him, and I hope he does come back, he'd be a great rival for Shadow, they'd have to treat Shaow better first... my god, I really love the boost games, but their wrighting, oh my god...
While I do appreciate what Iann Flynn is trying to do with I do have one concern that I have with that no one seems to notice, I don't want the comics seen as the only way to make story/character development when they should be in the game in the first place.
For me at least It's like in Destiny 1 Grimoire Card system instead of having all the Lore and stories in the game they make you go to Bungie's website/ Destiny App, now granted this isn't a perfect comparison and the Grimoire Card are earned in-game but in theory, it's taking away story/lore that would have been in the game and put it elsewhere.
The big issue is all on Sonic Team and whether or not they take the fan support of genuinely good narratives that come from these comics. If they hired Ian Flynn as a lead writer early on in development of a new game for example, then from the get go there's already a much better chance the game can have a story on par or even exceeding something like Unleashed or Black Knight (the top sonic game stories imo). The sad truth of it is that until those in charge of the games see the merit in making a good story, the comics will without a doubt be the only place fans can go for good official renditions of the characters and potential narratives using them.
If you read the IDW Sonic Forces arc, theres an easter egg that confirms that the Freedom Fighters DO exist in that world. On the command center, theres a couple photos of Sally and Bunnie in their Archie pre-reboot look hanging on the wall. So have them appear is still possible but its up to Sega of course. As for why Amy shoudnt be a leader? Well...shes 12. Shes a kid and a very inexperienced one at that.
I would kill for even sally acorn by herself to come back, one of my favorites from the archie series!
All the Freedom Fighters would be pretty cool to see again, but I think that they could somehow be worked into the games so that it would be fine to use them in the comics and cartoons. That's very unlikely though seeing as how the Freedom Fighters are all American made characters and fans of Sonic from anywhere other than America and maybe Europe wouldn't know much about them.
I agree man
shadow: "a personality, what's that? why would you need a personality when you have Ë̶̢̛͎͈̺͚̟̳̗̹̣̝́̄̀̓͊̈̀͋͝͝͠D̶̢͕͔̫̝̺̗̟̬̳̪̟͉̙̏͐̔̊̋̈́̊̀͗̑̈́̒͘͝G̸̢̛̬̖̼̖̈̋͒̐Ḛ̸̡̖̳̫͛̂̐̅̋̾̎̇̂̆̚͜͝͝! "
*Orders the first volume because of this*
I just finished playing the Sonic Forces game (currently going for a completionist run) and I had NO IDEA that the IDW comics that I've been collecting and reading for a while was based on that! I was confused as to why it started right after an eggman defeat but I brushed it off as "starting a little different". Thank you so much for this!
I may have a catchphrase for the start of the video. Something like "welcome to speed reading, where we turn words into *(insert word here)*
"BIRDS"
Perfect!
that was a very good video , how ever , there was a interesting article about sonic , which explain a lot about sonic fandom probably way more than any one think , it has a lot to say about classic era and modern era
gamebabble.wordpress.com/2010/02/22/sonic-and-the-worst-fandom-ever/
this article has some sort of a bad title which is " sonic and worst fandom ever " but regardless of it , this article would give a good idea about sonic fandom
I still really wish they hadn't scrapped the Freedom Fighters, I'm arguably more attached to them than the cast from the games.
Forces! Tails: Sonic,help me!!!!
IDW!Tails: I’d rather help myself out.
Sonic IDW is the best comic I’ve ever read!🤩❤️❤️❤️
I want touch on my thoughts regarding the other characters, since this video and my comment on the last video you posted already says exactly how I feel about how much better Sonic, Knuckles, and Tails are portrayed within IDW comics.
As for Amy, as much as I found Sally Acorn to be an amazing and badness character, I don't really agree with the thought that Amy is stealing her role so to speak, despite the obvious comparisons. I would argue that even in the Archie comics where both characters are present Amy acted similarly to how she does in the IDW comics. No, she wasn't necessarily the leader of the Freedom Fighters, but there are multiple times she'll jump in and take charge of a situation either providing backup to Sonic, Blaze, Knuckles, and even Sally herself. For example, in Sonic universe she travels with Knuckles to look for the pieces of the master emerald and was actually the more level headed out of the two, her stepping in to handle.......the emperor of the east......whatever his name was to save Monkey khan (think i spelled it right), and times she put away her own selfish desires to stay in a place or do a job that she needed to for the betterment of others. Long text aside, the traits Amy shows in the IDW comics aren't anything new and she has shown them before, just now she's in a leadership role so it's more noticeable i guess.
I’m so happy someone is bringing light to the comics. Not enough people talk about how they work with what Sonic Forces did and somehow makes it all work. They even made the Zeti bearable more recently and somehow made them essential and their inclusion make sense
I do remember, correct me if I'm wrong. In the Archie Comics, didn't Amy at one point even if it was very brief have a commander like role? I know she was trained by the best in the comics but I can't remember if Amy lead an Army before. I know Amy in the Archie comics became mature but eh starting to repeat myself lol
I just realized something about Sonic Forces that makes Classic Sonic and possibly even the Rookie obsolete. They had all of Team Chaotix that can blow up robots by simply singing right off the bat, and shortly after all of Team Dark who can stop time, and Team Sonic after they rescue Sonic and Tails comes back. They didn't need Classic Sonic or Rookie when they had basically the entire cast of Sonic Heroes and more. Just add the Chaos Emeralds back and Infinite and the rest of the robots and illusions are powerless. And even if we assume Team Blast moves wouldn't work, Espio is a Ninja with actual lethal weapons, and Silver can use telekinisis to hold people in place. Eggman's side was essentially dead right at the beginning of the game.
I agree with what you said on Knuckles, but what kind of bugs me about him that I don’t think anyone has addressed so far is that someone at IDW really seems to like drawing dumb faces on him, regardless of whether they fit the situation or not, the biggest culprit being that scene where he catches the Master Emerald. It’s such an important moment for him in this story and that stupid face just takes me right out of it. That would be like if in SA2, Shadow realized what Maria really wanted and they made him do that infamous face from the Archie comics that edge lord uses as his profile picture. That’s not even funny, it’s just really random. He’s also the only character they do this with, unlike in Mania Adventures where the odd faces are part of the style.
Thing is, as you said, the writing on him is fine: He is supposed to be the guy who takes everything seriously even if it’s ridiculous, so why can’t he seem to go a single issue without making some ridiculous out of place facial expression? Is there a mandate about Knuckles having to at least look stupid once per issue? Is it some kind of inside joke I’m not getting?
Honestly it doesnt bug me. I can see how it irks you, but i think its precious.
As long as he isnt a complete moron i am fine with him.
Game Apologist
Yeah, the writing on him is the best it’s been in years, so I take what I can get. It’s just such an odd artistic choice to do it for just this one character where it doesn’t even match the personality. I’ve actually been thinking about writing to the staff just to find out what’s up with that.
I've only played a few of the Sonic games (Sonic Heroes is the one I remember best, probably my first), but I've always wanted to get into the comics! The Archie comics were really daunting however, so I'm glad that IDW is now a thing that I can jump into. I'm enjoying these videos, and I appreciate that you're making them. Thanks man.
Now you have to make a separate Amy vs Sally video :-P
Passion for what you do goes a long way, as demonstrated in these comics and as pointed out in the failures of sonic forces. Man, its like of people treated a project with the passion, respect, and care it deserves, you attract the fans you want and keep them engaged and when you look at it as a cash cow, a chore to get out of the way, people will feel it and see it in the product.
1:20
Amy's thighs look thicker than usual.... Maybe that's just me......... Don't judge me, I'm just a Sonic fan, we all think about stuff like that at some point. Don't pretend like you're not the same.
Dewey Drop lmao they do look a little *thicc*
cant judge you at all, i always had a thing for legs and have a small thing for Amy as well so....yeah
@@Gang3rs
At least you're honest.
6:36 yeeeahh I'm pretty sure Rouge is the real "leader" of team dark.
Imagine if the Metal Virus Saga ends like Sonic 06
What is sonic 06 I don't what ur talking that never happened
@@Xx_SuperPenis_xX bruh
@@Xx_SuperPenis_xX Sonic the Hedgehog was a game released for the Xbox 360 and Play Station 3 as the 15th anniversary Sonic game... it's no use, why bother typing this out over a joke.
OH I love this. I definitely want more of that ! Keep it up, you're doing great ^^