My Go Kart won't turn. Why you need caster with a live axle kart
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- čas přidán 13. 11. 2021
- I noticed, after making new steering arms and tie rods, how much the caster affected corner weighting and how that helps the kart turn instead of understeering.
Here is a description of Ackerman(A way to match steering angle to the turning radius) from John Wade • GoKart steering explai... - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Well I'll be damned. I was taught as an army mechanic and all the three sisters that make the steering possible, Caster, Toe and Camber, but never was explained as to how it really work.
Now seeing this video and demonstration, would have made my way simpler when we were doing wheel alignments. It was rudimentary as far as tools went (a small string attached around the 4 tires ☺) yet we managed to do pretty good.
But again I must say. The way you explained it made me see exactly why I was having problems in certain situations. Well done sir.
My next build that I am about to start, will be a replica of Mater from the movies Cars. Either 1/3 or 1/2 scale....
The best video would show examples. You did make me aware, though and here I am again watching for the fourth time because on my ground force drifter, upgraded to 48v with your tread SCREWED onto the rear wheels and I felt like the kart was sliding side to side. I rode while looking at the rear wheels and then the front, and decided the front wheels were swiveling a tiny bit(unstable?) and it reminded me of what I've learned here. Now to think of it, drag racing on the highway, I got 110 and my unmodified Altima tried to slim me out. A friend with a fast car said some thing about the tire rod and something or other....hmmm...
Anyway, good info. Thanks very helpful in diy kart building
Best video! I never knew this. Makes me right away realized that an underinflated tire could really puzzle the driver.
tHanks for the video!
New subscriber! Great explanation. I can now see how a cart will turn properly when set up correctly. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for subscribing. The kart build is ongoing and I release new video every Friday
Holy cow... This is a fantastic video. Great explanation.
Thanks, I appreciate that!
This is a great video and explanation of caster.
Thanks, I appreciate that.
So the caster is the solution that I was searching for since so long for live axle.... 😀....
Great point. Very few Go-Kart videos deal with steering. A Go-Kart above all, is supposed to be nimble repeat…nimble. Steering is everything. If you go live axle, do with this guy says.
I am building my cart. Below is my reasons and expectations coming from Russia. I will be using a jackshaft with 2 centrufugal clutches and 2 short axles with 1 clutch pushing one axle and the other clutch pushing the other axle... thus providing positive traction. The engine will have 2 #40 x 1" bore sprockets supporting 2 chains to the jackshaft with those same size sprockets. The jack shaft will have L~ Jaw couplers to provide on and off road gearing and possibly another set for reverse. I expect to purchase 4 sprockets to assemble two sets being used as gears instead of sprockets and that should be reverse.
I have extreme difficulty walking and without a home, my plan is for the cockpit to double as sleeping quarters. This requires the steering rod to be level so as not to interfer with my feet (foot and prostetic).
when sleeping. For this i need a much longer bottom and with some channel and same size wood it can be extended past and above the steering assembly except the rod connecting the steering wheel to the rack and pinion setup. I expect to make the pedals on a hinge that gets pushed up and to the side when not in use. I also will attempt making a hinged section of frame that will hopefully dramatically increase or decrease the wheel base with some increments inbetween. I have 2 3 gallon tanks i plan on using for fuel and conpressed air. They will be mounted on the sides to increase the width for more confort. Towing behind me will be an extendable trailer to carry mu supplies and other tools and accessories. I will also be installing a PTO System that I may hook up power equipment to. Being extravagant I hope to put on a front bucket though linited greatly but... able to dig and move a certain amount of dirt, enabling me to make an actual mancave for protection against Nuclear desasters a Hitlatarian like Putin could become. Disagree? Let me ask you... What must USA's responce to Russia hitting USA with a Nuclear Warhead be? I am not asking what it will be, but rather what it MUST be? The answer is the same as if Putin unloads a Nuke or Nukes onto Europe... Europe, like USA MUST Surrender! All out Nuclear War leaves no one alive and Putin is 69 Years old and shows no signs of wanting to leave a beloving legacy. Thonk about that. He has one foot in the grave and on hand on a Nuclear War Head. I do not blame him for wanting a revived Soviet Union, I just wished his reasoning was admirable with a zero life cost priority. Consider if he is mostly successful why must he push onward? The financial costs whether successful or not, will be trenendous. He will have to re~build Russia's (or the New Soviet Union's) Economies. Along with that economy distress comes China. Sanctions against China will push China to seek new financial gains. N.Korea already shows a major tyranny and that of course also means a possible alliance with China and with Russia. Who buy the "good guys" are the "bad guys" going to look at to replenish their finances? ( I guess they could take a kesson from USA and simply print more unbacked currency... but... USA is such a consumer that the world does not care about USA's worthless currency which in turn makes the Currency of USA Valueable. However, Russia nor China nor N. Korea has that valueable worthless currency that USA has and has maintained. I would much rather Putin rebuild the old Soviet Union through honorable methods, however lives being forfeited has already been a cost of no concern to Putin.
Japan attacked USA in part to align itself with Hitler that Germany may protect rather than attack Japan. That idea can easily be renewed but with other countries like Iran, Turkey, Israel and many others.
With today's technology hooked up to the internet and playstations then given to a few boyscout troops Germany would have been demolished quick, fast and in a hurry. But now nearly every country in the world has Nuclear Bomb abilities or are friends with a country that does.
Currently and for the last 3 decades we have become inundated with lunatics in power wanting more power. Add to that we have the current COVID-19 (plus it's variants) Epidemics and worse yet the propaganda being fasley spread about its effectiveness. I expected an outbreak of labels being put on everything claiming "This can cause cancer, use at your own risk."
In its stead, we see everything that causes a death or even causes an amputation is being labeled a COVID-19 fatality or COVID-19 associated health disabler. This last variant (I think it is #5) has had its 90 day germination expire and though that variant was lesser than its predecessors it is nearing time for the next Variant to rise to power. How devastating it will be or just how devastating it will be labeled through more propaganda is yet to be seen.
Finally we look at Digital Currency and a connection with COVID-19. Already Vaccinations for anything to do with the Coronavirus (like COVID-19) has caused severe Proof of Purchase records, when that connects with digital currency for monetary sustenance and Vaccibation records the Economies of the World should begin to fail dramatically. This could greatly affect the World's largest worthless currency manufacturer and the World's largest Consumer... USA, with Europe being next in line. This could undermine attacks on Europe and USA as being a focal point for prosperiety gains necessary by Counteiea depleting their assets through their warfare campaigns. This ciuld easily make a redirection possible but where will be the destination of this redirection?
Full Circle... this is the reason for me building a Go Kart like I have described. Fuel economy is paramount. Owning land will make you a victim of a desparate Government. Being immobile (having a home or rent house, land, a job will turn you into a target. The only protection is one of mobility self-suffiency, survival training, learning and invisibility will be ones best protection. Some simple Math... COVID-19 is not a name but rather a mathematical equasion... do the equasion and read Revelation Chapter 13. Next... Digital Currency + Vaccinations + Vaccination Records = the Mark of the Beast. Soon (if not already) Vaccinations will come with an RFID Chip or "like" but equviliant identifier enabling whether or not you have been Vaccinated to be known + your financial records + one's ability to buy and sell will be manditory. Sweden has already implimentation of just such a device. If your Doctor or anyone trying to vaccinate you with a Pre~Filled syringe... RUN! For an implanted identifier to be given through a vaccine it will require the use of a prefilled syringe. A vial used for many and still trying to implant an RFIS Chip, one person, one chip is impossible, but a syringe pre filled with one vaccine + one microchip is very possible. AND nothing says they must tell you or even check to see if it has been viable. Looj on your phone there is an app notification that when turned on will allow anyone to know whether or not you have been vaccinated + given a microchip. This means many that are vaccinated could already have this microchip implanted. Do NOT take these Vaccines unless you want to meet Satan.
Any Moment many Countries (including USA) Could become a cashless society.
Never realized this. Thanks.
Caster on a car is like trail on a motorcycle front tire, it makes the steering wheel/wheels return to center (straight). I run solid axles on go-karts, it is a pain but they don't get good traction with one wheel drive!
It will make the wheel want to return to center(KPI does this to) and it will make the kart track straighter but when you run a live axle it really does help the kart rotate buy unloading the inside rear wheel.
Make a video on the set ups those twin engine karts used, did the double rear axle set up simulate the feeling of a differential?
Your go kart looks so cool!! Am looking for a affordable rear and front axel for a plan
I got most of my parts from OMB warehouse and some stuff from Amazon
Do you have an idea what the average amount of caster needs to be on a go kart?
Thank you so much you rock dude
Lol never seen gokart with such a flexible frame.. scarey! But was a great video on the topic
Thanks, I appreciate the response. It is not flexing, just rocking on opposite corner wheels. Karts built like this, basically two hoops welded together, do have a lot of flex that acts as suspension. I have seen some vintage racing karts with tie bars connecting the front and rear hoops and used to tune the amount of flex.
What size wheels and tires if you don't mind me asking? Do you have a link for both? This thing looks sick. It's exactly how I'm building my go kart, but I've got a two-seater.
10x5.5 and 11x7.5 They came as a set of four with the tires mounted. You can get them from several places but I used Amazon, the link is below. Look for Metric/Euro hubs they should fit with no machine work.
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08GCHKG9P/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
That's incredible, something so simple get something I wouldn't have thought of in a million years... ok, ...60 years
It is pretty cool, I had watched a video on suspension set up and checked it out on the kart, it should really make a difference, which also explains why karts often have so much caster.
Caster makes your front wheels re-center after a turn to make it more stable. It looks like your cart has incorrect ackerman. You should be able to run a line from tie rod end through spindle pivot to centerlind of rear axle. Your outer tie rod end with front steer should be farther out than spindle centerline.
Caster and KPI help the wheels recenter, but caster is also used for "wedge" to help plant or lift a corner of the car.
The original knuckles had reverse ackerman, which may have been done to clear the tires. I got my figuring backwards and made the new knuckles with reverse ackerman as well. For now I am going to run with it, it works on Formula 1 cars. Because I don't want to run really wide track and the tire width, I don't have room to properly angle for ackerman and would have to create the angle at the steering point.
Swap the spindles spin them around to rear steer you have to make a new center pivot mount anyways flip it around give each tire tiny tiny bit of toe 1° should be close enough to Ackerman I’m working my sons out now
man, that is a good looking kart! did you build it?
Thanks, it is turning out pretty good. I bought the bare frame off Marketplace and have built up the rest. It is a Rupp or Robron knockoff, it had Robron stickers on it but I spoke with Robert Stanton the owner of Robron who bought all the tooling from Rupp when they went out of business and he said it definitely was not one of his.
I see you have a bit of kingpin inclination, but not so much that the pivot is under the tire. Is it a matter of any amount helps? TIA
Sorry, I don't know the names of all the pieces, but I think it's maybe the tie rod end(?) the ball joint thing with the allen bolt through it that attaches to the front piece of the spindle... Why does that need to be a ball, rather than just being a bearing? Is it just to allow more fine tuning?
Those are called heim joints. If the mounts were in the same plane and stayed in plane through the range of motion you could use a plain bearing. The other thing is the heim joints come with left and right hand threads so you can turn the tie rod to change the length easily.
Love the frame and tires , did you build the frame ?
Hey, I did not build the frame. I picked this up from an old guy in the country. I did make the steering knuckles and I have a series of video hotrodding the engine.
i put more weight in the front and turns perfect now
Balance is a big deal for sure. If you have a cart where you can move the seat front to back and change that balance, especially on something as light as a cart, You can really make a big difference in how it handles.
What live axel did you used??
What rear hubs are you using?
thats very cool
Where can I find something like this.
Wat is your setup I need help with mines
Wish you were my neighbor. Lol. Good job
Thanks, When I was tuning my straight pipe tractor, no one wanted to be my neighbor.
@@WhatIsTheWheel 😄
Man.. I just bought the same wheels because theyre a great deal. but WHERE DO WE BUY HUBS THAT FIT THEM
It is frustrating that the correct hubs don't come up when you look at the wheels, that's the algorithm for you.
This should be the rear hub to fit, BMI should have a matching front as well
www.bmikarts.com/Metric-Pattern-Wheel-Hub-1-or-1-14-Bore_p_1643.html
It looks like you have some ‘vintage gold’ there. It looks to be a very early Rupp A-Bone kart chassis. Very similar to mine from 1969. Maybe research it to the Kart Vintage sights.
I checked on some vintage kart forums because the kart had some RobRon(he bought Rupp) stickers on it. I got a response from the owner of RobRon and, unfortunately, it is not even one of his replicas. It is a knock off someone made to look like a Rupp.
@@WhatIsTheWheel Unfortunately that happened a lot back then. They did a pretty good copy job though because it looks just like mine. Thank You!
Thanks
Where can I find these type of casters? I did a build and this will hopefully fix my problem
Caster is the angle of the king pin from vertical, front to back. You would have cut the knuckles off and re-weld them at the angle you wanted(About 14 degrees on this kart)
Can you tell me what frame you have? I have the same one and don’t know the name of manufacturer. Also what tires and steering wheel do you have. Thanks!
It is similar to the Robron karts(and was labeled as one) but I spoke with the owner of that company and he said it was not one of his so I really don't know. It was a popular design and a lot of little companies did knock off versions of the Robron(which were made with tooling from the Original Rupp kart maker)
The tires/rims I got from Amazon, look up Vevor go kart tires and rims
The steering wheel is from Speedway Motors, they have a LOT of options, check out the 13" wheels. You will have to slot the holes to get it to work on a kart steering hub.
@@WhatIsTheWheel thanks so much, great cart build videos. I’m following your build so I get ideas. Thank you.
We’re did you find the hubs for these wheels I ordered the same ones from eBay and can’t seem to get any kart hubs to fit
You have the Vevor wheels like these? Try BMI, the link is to some multi pattern hubs with the 58mm pattern on them. I would check with them about the wheel hub center diameter.
www.bmikarts.com/Dual-Pattern-Hub-Metric-American--1-Bore_p_7414.html
What is the angle of your caster. Ty.
How much caster is that cart. I have a cart I am racing and it has 0 caster. I was thinking I need this. How many degrees wood be a good start?
This Kart has a bunch of caster, about 15 degrees. I am no expert in this, but I ran a autocross car and ran about 5 degrees on that. The problem with karts is that the caster(and camber) are not adjustable. You have to make a choice and weld it up. you have a race kart, the guys that built the kart had a plan so it might be best to stick with it. From what I see, if you run a dead axle, the caster only helps with "feel". This is how the wheel want to return to ZERO, tracking straight ahead. You can get that effect with KPI
After all that, if you have a dead axle and want the kart to be more responsive, KPI is you best bet. If you have a live axle and the kart does not want to turn, then caster should help by pickin up one of the drive wheels so it can slip. Exact numbers I don't have to help with this. If you can spend the time, weld up an axle that you can rotate to changeth caster.
How did you prevent the rear hubs from sliding in on the axel?
The hubs are slotted and have pinch bolts. If they move after I get it up and running, I will add a pinch collar behind the hub to give it something to push against.
Are those vevor wheels. What hubs are those and where are they from?
They are Vevor rims and tires. They came as a set from Amazon. I think I got the hubs from OMB warehouse
Do you happen to know both of the angles of the kingpin bracket?
I believe the kingpin inclination is 7-8 degrees and the caster is 13-14 degrees. There is also a little over a degree of camber. I made these knuckles based off the original ones, and the used an average of the measurements I got from the stock pieces
Do you have a link for those rims and tires?
I want to know too
first question would be...how much??? with the standard measurements for a gokart, its 12 degrees..
It is a good question. I wish I had a bunch of money and track access, I would build an adjustable one and test out suspension changes. This one is 14 degrees, although I have seen older karts with zero as well as no KPI. A lot of those were old(50s-60s) twin engine race karts
Do they make differentials for karts?
Thanks for the question. You can get differentials that will work with karts but they can be pretty pricy and you have to do some work to fit them. The other issue is you don't get much from them because they are open, that is they don't have a locking feature that diverts drive to the wheel with traction.
Hi. Where did you buy your wheels?
I ordered them through Amazon, but I have seen a couple of online kart places selling them. Here is the link(I don't get anything thing from Amazon):
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08GCHKG9P/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Bom
How to set the caster hen?
Thanks for the question. On a kart it requires some cutting and welding. You need to cut the steering pivots off the front axle, reposition them at the angle you want, and weld them back on.
What manufacturer is that frame?
It has Rob Ron stickers on it but I spoke with a guy that has the original jigs and said it was a knock off.
Can you post a link to those wheel and tires?
There vevor on amazon
Whats the length on that axle? 36”?
I am pretty sure it is 36" overall(including the threads)
are yo using rain tires? What tires are those
They are Vevor branded. Honestly I got them because the tread pattern was cool looking. They came from Amazon pre-mounted on alloy rims. Amazon suggests hubs that do not fit, you will need Euro spec hubs with a 58mm bolt circle.
@@WhatIsTheWheel Ty. I ordered those like an hour before I even saw this video lol. I also just picked up a sweet deal. 12 tires just the tread (front and rear) that fit the vevor for $100! That’s less than $10 a tire! All of them are brand new, but they are ‘rain’ tires.
Also, I bought the same hubs you got before I saw this video 😂 so it looks like I’ll be doing everything you did in your first video
@@WillLockwoodStudios That is a great deal. If you are just playing around it should not make to much difference. It might have less traction on pavement, but that is usually more fun.
What rims are those
They are Vevor rims and came as a set of four with the tires. I got them from Amazon
Where did you get those wheels
They are Vevor, I got them off Amazon
@@WhatIsTheWheel thanks !
Where did you get your wheel hub?
I got them through Amazon but they came from OMB warehouse. I usually try to get parts direct from the minibike/go kart guys now.
@@WhatIsTheWheel do you know the name or dimensions?
@@davidguardado-jt2dg They are listed as drift trike go kart hubs. The rears fit a 1" axle and the fronts fit a 5/8 axle. Be sure to match your hubs and rims. I got it wrong and ended up redrilling the hubs. There are hubs that fit the Vevor rims I used
@@WhatIsTheWheel the same exact wheels that you have im planning to get so no need to worry abt the rim and hub, im guessing the same hubs you use for the front you should use for the back because i only see one hub from the one your talking abt which is the set of 2
I subbed
Thanks, I appreciate that
Whats ur turn kit called
I don't have a kit, these are parts I made to fit this frame.
Hey what size is your axle in front
I think they are 1/2 bolts that I cut the heads down . I can't get a mic in to the wheel to measure for sure but that looks right.
I just checked the old order sheet, the are 5/8"
@@WhatIsTheWheel bro is the best thank you I appreciate it where did you get them at ?
@@WhatIsTheWheel awesome just let me know Where did you get the axle spindles or you made them?
@@NATE-sn6nx I made them so I could get the camber I wanted but you can buy premade spindles and brackets
Regardless of the setup you should have caster.
True, although a lot of vintage twin engine/dead axle karts don't, probably to help keep both wheels planted.
@@WhatIsTheWheel makes sense, I could imagine that without caster you would be fighting to stay straight 😬
I like that you’re trying to understand Suspension geometry 😅
Thanks, If I build a kart from the frame up the suspension will be adjustable to make it easier to play with.
You are steering with anti ackermann. That is another big reason why don't turn.
I dont know why all these go carting channels are pushing live axles on high speed high horsepower engines its stupid to try to make live axle into a nimble high speed cart a live axle is is best suited
For going in a straight line
If you want a cart that turns good limited slip diff. or one wheel peel are your options front suspension can make things even better just so long as the suspension is built for its intended purpose
Yard carts are built for low speed and meant to be used on grass and loose dirt not paved roads at or near highway speeds
No you do not, its all on what THE BUILDER WANTS, You do NOT need caster, fucking people thinking they know it all i swear. I have built THOUSAND of Gokarts, Mini bikes and motorized bikes. Shit does NOT help enless you have shitty tires like yours and or drifting ONLY. All you are doing is wearing the tire down on its side. nICE TRY. May help YOU but it dont for most
Thanks for the comment. My experience running soft compound tires on a daily driver that was also used for autocross is that camber and caster(which I ran a lot of ) had little/no effect on wear. Toe out caused a lot of wear on the inside edge. I would keep it just slightly out from zero on the street and readjust it for lots of toe for the course. Great rotation but even a single day on the track caused noticeable wear.
What rear axel are you using?
1" steel with a full keyway. I think it was 38" (that is probably wrong). I got it through OMB